This was an amazing discussion. As a designer who's watched the ascendancy of Raf and worked at Calvin during his tenure - there is a bit of cynicism around the product now that feels like he's almost making fun of the customer in the same way that Vetements did. I had all the same reactions. The repeat graphics (that he did while I was working at Calvin - too soon, too soon) - the color pallet of the black and white school boy tailoring is just uninspired- not bad - just uninspired. The rest felt like takes on Pradaisms that weren't really the most thought out, but truly his mastery is his sense of proportion, tailoring, and almost a 'minimalist angst'. It wasn't a bad collection but it's hard to feel like it was good. We're in a time of revolution. Resting on your "heritage codes" feels less relevant now. *A similar criticism that was lodged at the Balmain collection.
I think Raf’s work takes time to be appreciative. Raf Simons is not the type of designer who is making a collection to follow the flow or to please anybody. There are pieces from very Early collections that weren’t so relevant back of the day but are now … I also think is interesting to see making a collection for men and women… the bomber jackets for women are 🔥
It's so interesting because the first thing I thought on first glance was Prada. The oversized shapes felt more Prada than him. I expect Raf to distort proportions a bit more and be a bit rougher. This felt like a lot of Prada women's codes done on Men. Too many lazy shapes for me with the usual strong tailoring.
I was in design school between 04 and 08. At the time ALL of the "avant-garde" wannabes would copy MM ideas and were obsessed with him and Kim Jones. Especially the Asian students. It's my opinion that they majorly have pushed the Raf movement from 2010 til now. They've grown up, started brands, and like so many knocked him off. Rafs collections that he talked about being "too small" weren't too small in Asia and some of Europe but for the most part it I believe Jil Sander truly elevated the quality of his work. More people were interested in knocking off Prada and Nicholas G than they were MM until Demna and Raf made it cool again.
Personally I detest Simons with a passion, and if I had it my way I'd go back in time to personally stop him from becoming creative director at Dior - I understand that they couldn't keep Galiano, but for the love of God, to go from the peak of couture to the mess that Simons created... That white gown with the three stripes that Jennifer Lawrence wore to a red carpet made me physically angry, seriously.
RAF is done for fashion. He has kept same design for 2-3 years recently. Always graphic prints on clothes. Men wear might be ok but for women wear he needs new new idea new fabric and make lady looks beautiful on dress or coats. Feminine part is disappearing from his collection. And he has same problem to Prada now also. He need to see art such as Mona Lisa, Edgar degas ballet painting, or Monet. It is on soft side. He can't imagine his work as graphic all the time. Too strong too solid and no emotional feeling as it too dry.
HELL NO! Raf Simons is not worth the hype. His fashion is straight garbage dumpster trash. This is coming from someone who actually understands design and aesthetics in detail.
So glad to have a host who knows what they are talking about like M-C Hill directing this.
This was an amazing discussion.
As a designer who's watched the ascendancy of Raf and worked at Calvin during his tenure - there is a bit of cynicism around the product now that feels like he's almost making fun of the customer in the same way that Vetements did.
I had all the same reactions. The repeat graphics (that he did while I was working at Calvin - too soon, too soon) - the color pallet of the black and white school boy tailoring is just uninspired- not bad - just uninspired.
The rest felt like takes on Pradaisms that weren't really the most thought out, but truly his mastery is his sense of proportion, tailoring, and almost a 'minimalist angst'.
It wasn't a bad collection but it's hard to feel like it was good. We're in a time of revolution.
Resting on your "heritage codes" feels less relevant now. *A similar criticism that was lodged at the Balmain collection.
Michael’s input felt strong and moving, great critical mind!
I think Raf’s work takes time to be appreciative. Raf Simons is not the type of designer who is making a collection to follow the flow or to please anybody. There are pieces from very Early collections that weren’t so relevant back of the day but are now …
I also think is interesting to see making a collection for men and women… the bomber jackets for women are 🔥
It's so interesting because the first thing I thought on first glance was Prada. The oversized shapes felt more Prada than him. I expect Raf to distort proportions a bit more and be a bit rougher.
This felt like a lot of Prada women's codes done on Men.
Too many lazy shapes for me with the usual strong tailoring.
so true I felt the exact same way
M-C HILL IS THE ONE AND ONLY, WE DONT DESERVE HIM
Don’t really see the Pradaness here tbh, also on another note don’t think his mainline and the Prada customer are the same
Interesting to revisit this discussion now that Raf decided to shutter the label
So nobody is seeing the reference to Martin Margiela?
Saw it. Skirt lining.
@@genesis2187 and the volume of the garments
I was in design school between 04 and 08. At the time ALL of the "avant-garde" wannabes would copy MM ideas and were obsessed with him and Kim Jones. Especially the Asian students.
It's my opinion that they majorly have pushed the Raf movement from 2010 til now. They've grown up, started brands, and like so many knocked him off.
Rafs collections that he talked about being "too small" weren't too small in Asia and some of Europe but for the most part it I believe Jil Sander truly elevated the quality of his work.
More people were interested in knocking off Prada and Nicholas G than they were MM until Demna and Raf made it cool again.
Y’all fawning over Raf x Jil is all I’ve talked about for the past decade
This collection needed more raf and less simons
Always will be.
The fashion industry is filled with phonies and this panel had some.
8
Personally I detest Simons with a passion, and if I had it my way I'd go back in time to personally stop him from becoming creative director at Dior - I understand that they couldn't keep Galiano, but for the love of God, to go from the peak of couture to the mess that Simons created... That white gown with the three stripes that Jennifer Lawrence wore to a red carpet made me physically angry, seriously.
RAF is done for fashion. He has kept same design for 2-3 years recently. Always graphic prints on clothes. Men wear might be ok but for women wear he needs new new idea new fabric and make lady looks beautiful on dress or coats. Feminine part is disappearing from his collection. And he has same problem to Prada now also. He need to see art such as Mona Lisa, Edgar degas ballet painting, or Monet. It is on soft side. He can't imagine his work as graphic all the time. Too strong too solid and no emotional feeling as it too dry.
Facts. Half these creative directors are dog shit. Only been fucking with The Plagiarist and A Cold Wall recently.
HELL NO! Raf Simons is not worth the hype. His fashion is straight garbage dumpster trash. This is coming from someone who actually understands design and aesthetics in detail.
Just stop.
Who do you think is worth the hype?