Independent Tests: Vertical Axis Wind Turbine vs Horizontal Axis Wind Turbine
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- There's a growing debate over which type of wind turbine reigns supreme: vertical axis wind turbines (VAWT) or horizontal axis wind turbines (HAWT).
Many claim that VAWTs offer numerous benefits over their HAWT counterparts, leaving many potential buyers and renewable energy enthusiasts in a state of uncertainty about which turbine is truly the best choice for their needs.
This video delves deeper into independent tests to provide a clear, factual comparison between VAWTs and HAWTs, shedding light on the rated power, yearly electricity production and sound level. Both wind turbines have been extensively tested in the USA under the same test conditions by independent bodies.
U.S. Small Wind Certification Council (ICC-SWCC):
smallwindcerti...
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Hi, my name is Patrick Juettemann, I am a German author and expert in the field of small wind power systems and renewable energy solutions. For around 15 years, I have been intensively involved with the market and technology for small wind turbines, solar power, electricity storage and systems for self-supply with clean energy.
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Windsunwisdom produces the best videos on youtube for those interested in wind turbines. Excellent work!
Why don't they discuss the only certified vawt the hivawt like this guy did ?
A guy here in the UK who has been building and using vertical wind turbines for over thirty years said to me that he favours the less efficient vertical set up because it is easier to build them to last and maintain/service them.
The hours other people wast over the years on messing about fixing horizontals makes them (in his experience) more expensive in the long run (or equates to a higher Total Cost of Ownership).
He is retired now but many of his are still working on boat sheds and remote agricultural buildings all over Britain where reliability and convenience was the over riding factor. This meant they were expensive per watt back then compared to to-days solar arrays. So, what is best should be based on the particular application and all its other requirements.
Also, if his customer had any old automotive batteries (fisherman and farmers etc., always have old batteries knocking around), he could often convert them into deep cycle batteries simply by changing the type of electrolyte. Thus it didn’t matter if they had a lower charge capacity as they were otherwise just scrap.
The average wind speed here in the UK is about 16 mph.
My observation is different. Vertical axis wind turbines have not really been able to establish themselves on the market.
Any advise on designs from your favoured source as am attempting diy vawt with hoverboard wheels n tested ideas rarely need much tinkering or maintenance.. 🤞
@@stevepr100 Sounds a great way to re-purpose a hover-board motor which of cause also makes a great generator. I hope someone else has had the from, as I don’t have any experience of using them. same idea from which you can draw inspiration
I don’t know when I’ll see Tom again but here are some of my thoughts:
The vawt will need a thrust bearing to support the total weight. The board’s bearings are NOT of a suitable design to do this. Also, the existing bearing plus a thrust bearing WILL add a lot of friction. Friction is always a problem (especially at low wind speeds). Toshiyuki Aso published a paper entitled: Study on the Bearing Resistance in a Wind Turbine Generator System
I quote: ...when the rotor is designed according to the wind conditions and the safety factors in the international safety standard for small wind turbines, IEC61400-2, commercially-available bearings are not suitable for the rotor, because both of the static and dynamic load ratings are larger than those demanded for the vertical axis wind turbine. Unquote.
Therefore, you may need to replace the existing bearings with (say) plain self-lubricating bronze bushings of a size which will resist side loading from the wind. Then, support the whole turbine rotor on a self lubricating thrust ‘washer’ (bearing) suitable for that total weight.
Bronzelube is one such company that supplies these types of bearings.
Also, the very act of generating will add rotational resistance. The wind is having to push the electrons against a pressure of some 36 volts.
Therefore, I’d imagine that you will need to construct quite a large turbine to ensure that it can generate in a broad range of wind speeds.
Good luck.
If you can put your own turbine anywhere it is very contibuting factor. And if you need to raise HVT at 50 meters and maintain them at that height every several years it is not. Since 2-10 kW is enough for most of people for own use - nobody will care about those extra 39%. People need time to get accusomed to sometging new. While they keep doing the same what their neighbor did they won't do something new with unpredictable results paying money upfront. While business insists on "buy to try and leave comment what was that" nothing new will capture the market. I have space to make something but business keeps whining that something new unable to capture the market while they doing nothing to promote themselves.
you do realize that small purpose wind turbines are used in the city and people's private houses and in this urban areas where amongst buildings and other things maybe hillsides the wind direction changes really rapidly and frequently and so there's no way that a horizontal axis win turbine can keep up with it it can't they can't move that faster used to a single direction of wind hitting the middle all the time and it open field airplane and so the vertical axis wind turbines are not going to be good there but anywhere else you want a vertical wind axis turbine in the cities on hillside's anywhere in urban areas where there's constant changing direction wind and you can see and around your house the wind's blowing from one direction then another you can just look at the which way the winds are blowing the leaves are blowing so you're kind of wrong on almost any sense except for grand scale large industrial wind farms any small scale use of a wind turbine is going to want a vertical axis unless you're on a boat perhaps where you're out at sea in the wind is only going to be coming from pretty much one direction and I'm given time and the horizontal axis wind turbine will have enough time to change its orientation. it doesn't do any good if a horizontal axis wind turbine is not facing the wind because the wind changed direction so think of that otherwise great video
A useful summary, and good advice. I always wondered how much the manufacturers specs. left out!
Excellent video, thanks! It would have been interesting with a test under more normal, sub-optimal conditions, like most potential users will have. Inland, some trees generating turbulence, etc.
In suboptimal conditions, you have to question a small wind turbine. Depending on what your goals are. If it is primarily a hobby and electricity generation is not so important, then you can also make compromises in terms of wind supply. But if you want to keep the cost of self-generated electricity within reasonable limits, then you definitely need a windy location.
@@WindSunWisdomI do have a very windy location, but it is probably not free of turbulence. The question is how much I should invest and whether there will be return on investment.
@@WindSunWisdom What about the horizontal axis turbine seeking the wind in turbulent conditions? If this could make a big enough difference to the output it might be more efficient to have a VAWT. A second possible reason for choosing a VAWT could be in an area where the wind often blows at speeds above what the HAWT can handle and so forcing it to shutdown. I don't have any experience with wind but I think that I might have seen the latter argument being used.
I am also interested in how long each wind turbine will last before they become land fill.
There is a lot of room for adjusting the height and width ratio of the trusses and sails. I think it is best to look around and even do your own experiments. It is an open field and the more the merrier. Watching a video of lab wind tests it seems that cylinder sails capped with discs cut into small fins not only is the most efficient but doesn't require starter blades
Criteria number 1 wind storm survivability. Ability to repair slip ring brush burnout that verticle multi directional doesn't need
I have been tempted to get a wind turbine to top up our batteries in Winter when the PV is not enough. I couldn't find any turbine that could generate enough without installing it very high. So, we bought more cheap PV and switched to using wood in the Winter.
Good decision. You can't force a windy location
We got 9000 kwh from the ds3000 in southwest minnesota. Almost 4x what is rated at.
39% more at which height? Are they tested at the same height? If I should to raise at 50 meters to get those 39% everything not obvious at all.
Very helpful video thanks so much. I own a farm in a rural area (technically "on grid" but in between two small towns, ie with no other buildings nearby). According to the local meteorology station in the nearest town, the general area receives on avg 3m/s wind - that said, and in my personal experience, the exact spot where farm is the wind is significantly stronger, at least 2x as strong; again, my estimation. Important to point out that there are already several state owned large wind turbines scattered around the area. My farm is on a hill with an elevation from 130 to 90 meters above sea level with no obstruction, so my question is: would a small turbine still require that 10 meter high position? I would like to keep everything discreet an in line with the surrounding landscape. Thanks again.
Every location has its own conditions. Unfortunately, I can't give a general answer.
Their website says the rotor is 4 meters tall and 4 meters diameter. Its MUCH larger than the skystream. The total surface area is more like 16m2 compared to the skystream.
I am more interested in the high wind speed servivbility as we're i am i had 2 die & i know of 3 small to medium industrial wind generators that have died due to high wind speeds. Also if thay servive will thay still produce any electricity at higher wind speeds.
These test were done on a favorable wind direction. Where I stay, the wind direction constantly changes. I've watched other peoples vertical wind turbines and evertime the wind changes, the turbine loses momentum. Which is why I think that a horizontal wind turbine would be a better choice.
According to the test certificate given the DS3000 I can read that the "Rated Annual Energy" value is 2,460 kW.
As kW is not the unit for energy but for power it makes me disbelieve that this so called "independent test" is a legitimate test, performed by skilled personnel.
Thank you. Very informative. Another thing not mentioned here but worth looking into: how big is the risk for birds being hacked to death by the blades of the windturbines? It somehow seems that horizontal blades here cover a bigger area, whereas the vertical axis centers more around it's own mast and are therefore more visibly and less dangerous?
As far as I know, studies have shown that small wind turbines are not a great danger to birds and bats. A thousandfold bigger problem is free-roaming domestic cats.
Hey I love your work and have to ask, have you tried out the Liam F1 wind turbine yet? Or any with fibonacci design? Would love to hear peoples independent thoughts that have used it in person
Very nice video and very interesting channel !! I have a question.. if I want to measure wind over period of a year, just to see if my location is OK, what would I need , some cheap option, if you have something on mind ?
You could check this company from Scotland: en.windlogger.eu/collections/small-wind-turbine-data-loggers
@@WindSunWisdomThank you for your answer. This is a bit too much money for me to invest, just for test. Do you know of any DIY solutions, or something involving RPI or something like that ?
good morning just watching your video i have a tesup 7kw hera wind turbine can you help i am trying to get some dater about them as the one i have do,s not spin and i am not sure why
Fine analysis of current market; do consider the general pros are that wind balls can be arrayed denser with (unmeasured) benefit and accessible to the ground in comparison to wind towers.
Imagine if I told you my 20%-40% less efficient design can be placed 10x more: thats 6-8x the output of the single more efficient model and would change the general efficiency understanding, but again less of a single buyer perspective and more general analysis comparison importance. (I dont know the specific array density of these models just general important analysis consideration with windmills. 🐧🐉)
An honest answer: a lot of claims are made in the field of small wind power. The decisive factor is evidence in the form of independent test results. I primarily deal with wind turbines that have proven themselves in practice.
What is the life expectancy of each unit, and what causes them to die? Kind of important information, no?
A high quality wind turbine might last 20 years or longer.
@@WindSunWisdomWhen 'high quality' includes concrete, steel, and fiberglass, even 30 years ROI is unacceptable!
You're a clone of a colleague of mine in Stuttgart... with the very same accent and weirdly enough, deeply convinced that US technical validations are UNBIASED! 😆That's so naive! Industrial considerations are paramount, meaning that a better technical solution may be beaten as it's been already the case with heat engines as a matter of fact.
Once I asked him how trustworthy are Tüv tests and certifications: Are they to be less reliable than their american counterparts? It was an inner national struggle for my colleague... Oh Gosh! Corporates can bring down the most wonderful ideas. It's appalling that you ignore it! Hans!🤣😂
get to it already..
the winner is the old stile water pump ,made of steel slow moving but powerful.
Yes, an ingenious technology. I will make a video in the future.
Horizontal Axis Wind Turbine 25 mph wind you may get 2-5 watts from a 400 watt turbine there shit. it will never charge a 12 volt battery. 2-3 volts ac. you never get pay back of fan and mask. wait for the windmill fan that thhey do not said 400 watt ebay and others is max wind speed. over 100 mph
Has anyone told you that your exposé look like an East German communiqué? btw, there's a hole in your chest... Removing green background may kill you🤣😅😆
I can't take your references for granted Hans! They're not biblically reliable!
Strange little haters in the comments, maybe its a Euro thing ? There's a new pinwheel horizontal axis wind turbine that's all the range now, would like to see a sq. meter to sq. meter comparison there too. Thanks
Which turbine do you mean?
In a way researchers are hampering progress of the VAWT. For instance it must be very cheap it must not be more complex . Some one said. If nothing change the results stay the same. For me it is about efficiency . It will cost you more to solve the inherent problems of vertical Savonius turbines. It is possible and then you will have one of the most long life and efficient small turbines. You have toe solve bearing issues, static torque curve, braking and drag forces and this wil solve the restricted rev capabilities. If you design it to resolve this issues your turbine will have a very flat torque curve . Your design will be very unique. I did all that. I am busy building a strong durable test model so that it can be tested by creditable institutions. Small problem is it is my private project so there is no big funding.