Check out www.squarespace.com/abbieree to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code abbieree ! Hey all! Some of you have brought to my attention a few words I have mispronounced, I’m really sorry for the mistakes and appreciate you brining it to my attention! because of my dyslexia I genuinely really struggle with pronouncing a lot of words but I will make sure to triple check the pronunciation in future videos 😊
@zurzakne-etra7069I tried to check all the pronunciation in post but some must of slipped through, because of my dyslexia I genuinely really struggle with pronouncing a lot of words but I really appreciate you brining this to my attention I will make sure to triple check some of the pronunciation next time 😊
Your distinction between “fantasy” and “myth” seems biased and inconsistent. You treat myths as more legitimate because they are widely believed, but belief alone doesn’t make something real. There’s no empirical evidence for the existence of these gods, so on what basis are they fundamentally different from "fantasy"? If both lack verifiable proof, the distinction appears arbitrary.
It would be the first movie to make negative money at the box office. You are not going to have a successful movie without a known cast with a pull. It's unfortunate but the reality. It's the same thing with "why don't they make more original movies?" and when they do, no one goes to see them. Put your money where your mouth is.
Unknown actors? I thought all actors came from other actors or entertainment lawyers who are married to actors. Now there are unknown actors? What a world….
@Ambatubusrn if the movie is good people watch it. Sinners, K-Pop demon hunters etc. Hollywood is ruled by old white men who want to repeat good ideas until movie goers get fed up. Then they complain that no one wants to watch their bad movies. Yet movies made by fresh eyes do better. Now they’ll try to replicate Sinners for the next 10 years and complain when each attempt is a flop.
Jorge and his team put more passion and effort into Epic! When I heard the Odyssey was described as “colorful”, Epic does a very good job of adding color through the music alone. On top of that you have talented fans and artists making designs of the characters and beautifully emotional animatics. It really makes the tale as fantastical as it was meant to be seen as! It’s so crazy how a conceptualized musical made by a former medical school student turned musical maestro with an incredible grassroots team of singers and passionate fans/artists alike is 10 thousand times more better than this historically inaccurate, creatively sapped, almost monochromatic, toned down Hollywood “cinematic masterpiece” lmaooooo
@percyweasley9301of course they do. Hell, there are some actors in Hollywood who I didn’t even know were of Greek descent until people were talking about it in light of this.
@MyDarkSubconsciousYeah Tom Holland is especially british looking, and it's not just the skin but the overall features. Anne Hathaway... maybe could pass
@beatjunkybgfor what it’s worth, I have seen a clip by a RUclipsr named Lingualizer in which he’s on Omegle quizzing some random Greek girl on geography (really), and said girl does actually resemble Anne Hathaway.
He spent a lot of green for scientific research on black holes and wormholes but couldn't open a history book smh. That's Christopher 'If it ain't black or white it ain't right' Nolan for you.
While I'm not a historical accuracy snob by any means I do think there is validity to the criticism that Nolan forgoes Greek aesthetics when adapting a Greek myth by a Greek poet. If he wanted a Norse flair then he could have adapted the Edda which would have probably been a better fit for him especially given that it has not really been adapted for film at all before.
Yeah, I keep seeing these wildly inaccurate Greek story adaptions and think, why not just do Norse mythology? We seem to have way less movies about Norse mythology than Greek mythology. When watching Clash of the Titans 2010, Liam Neeson felt more like Odin than Zeus (Romans equated Odin to Mercury/Hermes). Given how popular history has become online, especially historical arms and armor, why are Hollywood filmmakers so hellbent on staying behind the times? Nolan may be red-green colorblind, but he could get help to portray authentic Bronze Era designs to be suitably cinematic.
Yeah, but then the film wouldn’t make as much moolah, it’s show business after all. Those no-name actors would not draw the masses to the movie theater like Zendaya & Tom Holland. Simple as that.
Who? Like once you’re talking about classics like the Odyssey that story is present and talked about by everyone. Its like Middle Eastern folks claiming the Bible for themselves.
@TeaCakePony Cleopatra was not an Arab. She was Greek. In fact, basically no Egyptians were ethnically Arab at that time. They were ethnically Egyptian. I think they're called Coptic but I could be wrong.
5:46 perfectly explains why consistency in the internal logic is hugely important for Fantasy. When the authors violate their own rules, their entire world falls apart.
"This isn't just about historical accuracy, it's about mega conglomerates taking foreign cultures and dumbing it down into neat little marketable packages" I think this sums it up pretty well.
You are talking about Christopher nolan , he is not netflix or disney . This man is known for his complex movies , and youre out here saying hes dumbing it down ? Do you even know who he is ?
The Odyssey isn’t some relic of foreign culture though, it’s a foundational artwork of western culture and belongs equally to English speakers as it does the Greeks. It honestly shows how disconnected people are to the western cannon that they focus on the casting as the biggest problem in this production. The real travesty is that every element of what makes Homer’s art sublime will be foregone, and that no one will notice Edit: Replies to this comment have tried to spin it as some kind of colonised vs. coloniser dichotomy, which misses my point entirely. I'm trying to stress that an adaptation should be faithful to Homer artistically rather than ethnically, which Hollywood doesn't care about anyways
I'm really "off" about the casting. All fine actors; but they really don't fit the roles. That are almost too famous for this. They need to melt into the role, not scream movie star.
True they are not meant for the role but saying they cant "melt" into the characters is objectively a big lie...we are dealing with quite talented actors/actresses (that shouldnt have been casted tho🤣)
It's truly very difficult to handle materials like The Iliad, Odyssey, etc because they're considered foundational literature of western civilization. Projects like this are a big hit or miss. He really fumbled hard with the casting already and the dull/muted color grading in the trailer makes me want to gag
You are one of the few people that spoke blatant honesty on this movie subject....other either have love it blindly or hate it blindly but you spoke honest facts speaking like a true researcher....WELL DONE!!!
So far he shows that profitability and easily consumble translation outweighs the another's nation cultural sacred legacy.He is the director that doesn't respect the National cultural from which the narrative comes from or the filmmaking as art but rather as industrial product of certain pattern
I'm assuming you haven't seen it yet. What did he do that made the movie more "consumable"? He made the movie the way he wanted with the people he wanted, that's the utlimate experession of artistic freedom and expression.
@makon89 Not only have clue what art is because i am artist mysel, but as Greek, what he does is more than what it would take to receive official ban.I do know what art is,the real question is if you know what culture is
Nolan cultivated a fan base expecting perfect accuracy. He’s marketed his movies as, “We shot on the actual Dunkirk beach and used the actual…” This backlash is of his own making.
I don't think so. There were 300,000 men on that beach in real life and in Nolan's film it's mostly empty. Probably because of his reluctance to use CGI. Also the film pretends the civilian boats did the evacuation when they just assissted the Navy who did most of it. History nerds haven't been conditioned to hold Nolan to a high standard.
A South and Central American cast would, unironically, look more Mediterranean than what they got. Hollywood loves Pedro Pascal; he would fit. Age-appropriate Nestor or something.
As much as I love Nolan and I often use his examples of some of his movies as to how grays can be used effectively in a movie, I really am so tired of the belief that "gray = realistic" as if colorful settings are impossible to find in real life. I feel like he was trying to take a jab at an Eggers type of project but Eggers' stuff works because he adapts things into his own vision that he knows fits them. On pure aesthetics, it feels like he was trying to make a square fit into a triangle-shaped hole. I know it's not the best example because it too is anachronistic and ahistorical, but Troy at least is brighter and more colorful and while the costumes are also quite "fantastical" they are, in my opinion, more evocative of the region and "era" even if they had based themselves on pure aesthetic and on showing off more of the actors. Also, Troy was partially filmed in Mexico and I'll never tire of sharing that factoid.
Like, Troy itself was super commercial and the changes and the adaptation of armor was definitely made for reasons of marketing the movie and showing it off. But at least it felt like ancient greece, I think, it wasn't hard to get immersed, for ahistorical as it definitely is.
What I love about the comparison with Troy is that yes Troy was not accurate to History. But Troy is not regarded as one of the best Historical or Mythological films ever either. It's accepted as a very good Hollywood Blockbuster and that's it. But Nolan fanatics would never admit to that. Never admit that The Odessey will just be another Troy. They want The Odessey to be Peak Cinema and one of the Best Historical Epics ever made all the while it does the exact same things every other generic Historical Epic does.
@MK-uz4mo and there are so many pink, purple, yellow, orange and even blue flowers there!! beautiful trees, the ocean, it's an absolutely gorgeous place most of the time!
Fellini’s satyricon is an amazing fever dream trip into the past of Ancient Rome. An untouchable and alien time. The sets and actings and costumes and story perfectly fit the vibe. Nolan’s the oddessey looks sterile and American
If critiquing the current Wuthering Heights fanfic movie for being a bad adaptation, especially visually and in casting, is okay, critiquing Nolan's Odyssey for similar reasons is valid. There are guys like Gaijin Goombah who give context for Japanese myths, why people and culture form fantastical stories and creatures. Giving more historical context, especially visually, could help movies like say The Odyssey, help people understand the original work and how it came to be. Characters like Helen and Athena were described as fair skinned because in that time period, being pale was a sign of beauty and privilege, because one could stay out fo the sun. Nolan studied literature in university, and seems to attempt some intellectual approach to his films, so why not make a movie that could help people understand a pivotal work of western literature?
@thewolf9851 Helenic/Greek thought is a major foundation of western culture. It was heavily adopted by Romans, after Alexander the Great spread it as far as India (where statues of Heracles are erected as protectors besides early statues of the Buddha). Some see the 300 Spartan Battle of Thermopylae as so historically important because it ensured Helenic thought would be spread as we know it. Christianity, a Middle Eastern Jewish religion, assimilated Helenic thinking when integrating throughout the Roman Empire. What we think of as Western Culture is leftover from Christendom, which included Western Europe, the Mediterranean, all the way theough the Middle East into India. Several key Christian theologians reference Greek thought process in their philosophy. The Trojan War was quite popular in Medieval Europe. Shakespeare took heavy influence from Roman Helenic storytelling, retelling them in the style of his time. It's why The Illiad and The Odyssey became staples of higher reading education in western literature curriculum, moreso than Beowulf, the oldest English poem. Since Homer's work are some of the best composed and oldest Greek works we have, foundational even, they can be used as a starting point to examine Helenic influence throughout history.
It's especially frustrating when you compare it to a film like Dunkirk, where Nolan goes out of his way to use original still flying planes from that time, even getting it accurate down to the specific aircraft version, while in the Odyssey he apparently can't even get the millenium right.
In my opinion, Hollywood has lost a lot of money and is going down the tank. All these famous actors are freaking out b/c they need jobs and money, so they put them all in the only vehicle that is likely to make money anymore: a Christopher Nolan film. It's a gamble; I think it'll pay off, but not as much as they hoped it would. I hope this means the Hollywood monopoly will break apart and smaller studios will start to gain traction and make actual good quality, original movies again.
@RunningRugby4Market forces is a weird name for short-sighted executives who destroyed their industry chasing blockbuster universes. The only thing stopping mid-budget movies is the studios redefining mid-budget to mean 50-100m films and their psychotic insistence on playing the worst version of the token game in existence. They have no sense these days. They burn hundreds on projects that should be 30m at best and spend tens of millions on projects that should be a couple million. When RUclipsrs start making better low to mid budget films than Hollywood itself, its not costs, it's corruption. Corrupt pockets and vision.
It’d have to have a much more complete ending than the old movie. But the real myth ended in horrific tragedy. The old movie cut off the story at the high point. I don’t think we as a society are ready for Greek-style tragedies, and amending the ending to make it happier might be too great a change.
Artistic stylization should still take into consideration the history and culture of the source material. This just seems like they ignored it altogether and stitched together a bunch of vaguely ancient-looking imagery, which is sad. Instead of using historical inspiration to make the movie look distinct, Nolan seems to have succumbed to the Hollywood clichés that can't imagine anything besides Ancient Rome and the Dark Ages. I'll be happily proven wrong by the actual film, but the trailer certainly didn't get my hopes up. And despite loving most of his movies, Tenet showed that even Nolan can make a stinker when he gets too used to the smell of his own farts.
The problem we have with the casting is not because the actors are ugly etc. No, they are all beautiful and great actors BUT they do not look like Greeks. Helen was Greek, that's the problem. She was not from Africa, so the fact that they changed her race is what angered people. They made a movie about Greek people, and didn't even bother to cast any actor who looks at least a little bit like a Greek. ( I'm Greek by the way, and I wanted to explain that).
Parts of Africa was a part of Ancient Greece. It’s one of the continents that Greeks colonized. Nor does she have a “race”. It’s a completely modern invention. However, I don’t think they’re claiming Greeks are Africans. It’s just an American adaptation. I’m sure Helen will be reimagined as having darker skin not being an “African” or “black”. Does it upset you when Greek plays are played by people of different races in other countries as well? It happens often. This is Nolan’s vision for his production. It’s art. No one has to adapt a story the same way. Everyone has a different vision for their movies, musicals, plays, and tv shows. I don’t think he’s saying it must be adapted that way either. It’s just what he’s doing with his favorite actors.
Lupita is gorgeous. And also her casting is bait. Studio sat around the table and thought 'okay we got everything we needed, now add a dash of culture war, that will do well on our social media KPI's.'
Abbie! I am pretty sure when I stumbled upon your channel you had maybe 400-500 subscribers. Now you are nearly at 70k!! Truly well deserved! You are one of the only culture/movie commentators that I agree with and enjoy watching these days. You have a great way of making everything very interesting and easy to understand. Keep it up! You are doing so well!!
Wow thank you so much! You are so kind this has honestly made my day 🥺 thank you for supporting me for so long! I love making videos and am truly lucky to be able to do so especially with such a beautiful community 🌸💓
Saying a black woman is ugly and therefore can't play a beautiful woman, is racist. Stop trying to hide your racism with "it's not historically accurate." are you complaining that a British modern looking man is playing a Greek man. I bet not.
Great video! As someone who's seen a lot of history buffs talk about this and as I'm remembering another video talking about the portray of fantasy I think the criticism is not about accuracy but more of the practicallity (like for example the chest armors that go to the hips are not practical because you can't really move or bend, that's why historically are to the height of the waist). And there are many many mistakes, but mistakes that any adviser could correct. And this led us to the second criticism to Nolan that is the stake. He's not the guy who directed Fast and Furious or Michael Bay, He's the guy who talked to an astrophysicist in order to portray accurately a black hole in Interstellar, or the guy who made sure to have every single part of the control boards period accurate in Oppenheimer; so the stake is very high... and the guy falls in every single Superhero/Hollywood cliché.
I can’t even give Nolan the benefit of the doubt to see it in theaters, it’s too expensive and lengthy. I can’t evaluate it until it comes on streaming
Robbert Eggers seems too germanic and cold climate and pale-white obsessed to be capable of directing a movie about the ancient and sunny mediterranean world. I hope I'm worng about this
We also need to talk about the lack of Greek representation in Hollywood when it comes to myths about my culture. Having constantly big corporations cast the same actors while never giving platform for greeks or American greek actors speaks volumes about their hypocrisy as an all diverse team. They just cast anyone that's not greek but is famous enough to make headlines, promoting not a respectful presentation of a still living culture, but a cash grab exploiting the popularity of ancient greek myths. Making something aesthetic ruins immersion, ruins quality, especially when from the settings and production we see the lack of caring but a rushed production to increase the director's success
For Hollywood, diversity = hiring 1 (one) black actor and calling it a day. As someone who's brown, you basically never see any Middle Easterner or South Asian on screen except when it's time to play a terrorist...
Titanic was packed with unknowns and rising stars, right? And it did pretty well, to say the least. In contrast, it feels like even with an equally massive budget for Odyssey (2026), they probably spent the lion's share on super-famous actors and had to skimp elsewhere-perhaps '"refurbishing" a viking ship?
I'm still excited about it. I'm looking forward to seeing what such a big budget can do with the story. I spent January reading Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, Hesiod's Theogony and Works and Days, Apollonius' Argonautica and Apollodorus' Library of Greek Mythology. I'll probably stay excited about it.
Let's see the whole film before giving a final verdict. I mean, is it possible he transplanted the myth to a Viking setting? See for instance Oh Brother Where Art Thou as an example of taking the myth and applying it to another setting.
I might tolerate the historical inaccurate costumes, but can someone tell me why Jon Bernthal, Anna Hathaway, Matt Demon, and Zendaya, an American actors, in a adaptation of a Greek Mythology???
@ozi618 Some will say this for sure, and surely they are twitter stans or TikTok stans who are thrusts over some actors. But for me and other people, casting European actors for this at least will be much better than 60% of them being Americans.
Why are people so obsessed with where the actors come from and what their heritage is? They need to *look* the part, who cares if they are Americans? Americans are mostly immigrants' descendants anyways. Just... have people who look like what people (and gods, who basically just look like people) are supposed to look in Greek mythology, that's all.
Because it’s a 250 million dollar movie and the need good actors that will fill sets . Give me a list of good Greek actors that speak English well and can carry a movie that costs 250 million dollars .
I think we’ve lost the plot a little bit as a movie watching society, but I can’t fully put into words what has gone wrong in the film fandom at large.
From where I’m sitting, it feels like everyone has gotten into critiquing films before they even come out instead of waiting until they actually see it, at least as one of the problems. That sets people up to make decisions about movies based on superficial things like sets and costuming instead of the substance of the story and how well or not it was told. At their core, that’s what movies have always been about: telling stories. If we make a decision about a movie before giving everyone involved a chance to actually tell the story, we are doing the movie a disservice. If the movie ultimately fails to tell whatever version of the story the people making it are trying to tell, then great, talk about it. But assuming a movie is going to be bad based on the little bit of information we get before it’s released, I think that hurts the entire movie watching community, especially when that becomes the norm. People also have somewhere along the line decided that the people making movies need to tell the story that the people want them to tell in the way they want them to tell it. Whether it’s an adaptation or an original story, though, it’s ultimately the story the people making them want to tell, not ours. I’m not saying that what audiences want isn’t important but movie makers are artists and I think it’s unfair to act like they should conform their art to the loudest voices.
@PurpleKya while i agree people jump to conclusions to quickly, filmmakers release trailers, posters etc to promote and advertise a film, and in doing so, they deliberately give an idea of what it's gonna be like. So it's completely valid for the audience to criticise what they see
@shiv-7723I do agree that it's natural for people to criticize, I just think that people put too much stock in it. Reacting to set photos is kind of like seeing an artist's drawing when it's less than halfway done since so much happens in editing. I just think that things are getting blown out of proportion because everyone and their brother has an opinion and voices it online so we end up getting so many critiques on something that isn't even finished yet, you know? I love the art of movies and I think people being cynical about them instead of giving them a chance hurts their (and whomever they influence) ability to truly enjoy it for whatever it is. I try not to even watch full trailers anymore or to stay out of the talk about movies, especially ones I'm excited about, as much as possible to go in with as clean of a slate as I can. That shift has allowed me to enjoy movies so much more and to go in with less preconceived notions, allowing it to be whatever it is, you know what mean?
@PurpleKya yeah i get it, but again, i feel like context matters. Your analogy is spot on for unintended leaks, but if the studio itself is releasing set photos and stuff, it means they're ready for us to see them, and then it's up to the audience to praise or criticise it. And I agree people shouldn't be too cynical beforehand, but blind optimism is just as bad imo
I find that, given US socioeconomic history, they seem to have little regard for the differences in ethnicity within different skin colours. So they think that they are free to play around with IPs such as the Witcher because they were written by a white person. The cold hard truth is that these IPs do not belong to them, they may own them in the legal sense but they are not theirs. Witcher belongs to Poland. LOTR, Narnia, Harry Potter belong to the UK. Greek mythology belongs to... Greece. I'm not saying you cannot adapt such stories, but you have to have absolute reverence for the original authors and the context of their stories, anything else is cultural colonialism.
The problem with Helen of Troy casting is in the fact that it was made obviously for culture war reasons. They knew what they were doing and they knew what the backlash will be! If you want to be mad about it, be mad at Nolan and those who made the casting choice! They used the actress to deflect criticism. Now imagine the outrage if they put non-black character in Wakanda.
@catbear305 Wait a second, you think that example of Martin, the white guy playing CIA agent somehow provides useful insight? CIA agent could be black, but he had to be white for explicit purpose of marking him as an outsider in Wakandian affairs. Thanks for missing the point and polluting the conversation.
I disagree. I think the intention was to do something like the Whitney Houston and Brandi Cinderella movie which granted is entirely based on a fantasy world not in a realistic England or Greece. They simply remove the race barrier and the artistic liberty on the costumes helps with that
There is a non black character in Wakanda. This stuff and these events are fake. Not every adaptation must be the same. Blame the Greeks for colonizing most of the world and forcing their culture on everyone for this. They should’ve just kept their culture to themselves like other countries did and this wouldn’t have happened.
My main problem is that the costumes and armor look Roman. No one is talking about the Roman bias of fantasy and mythology in this discussion of Nolan's Odyssey adaptation.
Shakespeare's works aren't mythology of one's nations or historical books. They present universal human traits, no matter where and when. It's why they are still popular.
@agusbrz78 Most people, on identifying a trap, don't shove their head into it. I'm afraid your first statement is nonsense - MOST Shakespeare plays purport to be historical, and mythical characters like King Lear and Hamlet and Troilus & Cressida were likely considered equally historical in Shakespeare's day. You correctly identify the very good reason why nobody wastes time attacking Shakespeare for his historical inaccuracies (albeit fans of Richard III and Macbeth are quite vocal) which is the result of our having fully processed the idea that any good story can speak about far more than a historical context. However, my (rather insidiously presented) point is that people seem to pick and choose when and where this exemption may be applied. Nobody gives a damn about 'historical accuracy' when it comes to King Arthur, but for some reason we're supposed to think that a Greek myth can tell us nothing about the human condition beyond its allegedly historical context. Could it perhaps just be that we live in a time when one of the most popular modes of critical response to films is to moan and whine about stuff we've not actually seen? Could it in fact just be that sheep like to bleat? Needless to say, I quite understand that a person with a strong (and real) knowledge of history would be irked by a fantastical representation of a historical period - but it's of little relevance to the average viewer who is consuming a story for the story, not for the history it never claimed to contain.
I keep seeing the assumption that all Bronze Age armour was the full cumbersome outfit like the Dendra Panoply. But there have been only two or three of these heavy ancient panoplies ever found. All other depictions of Bronze Age armour by contemporaries show much more mobile and revealing armour of various kinds. Likely, the full bronze panoply was only used ceremonially for display or by chariot drivers. Nowhere is it shown on mosaics of vase painting. IOW, it was not common, even if they got some little guy to dance around in it as though it were.
Helen’s abduction was a family affair which spurred an epic war. Casting a historically implausible actress cannot fully convey the family and social dynamics that are the foundation of the story.
@tr_2339 Disrespect to who, you? Are you greek perchance? I don't believe there is a single greek actor in The Odyssey anyways, so why are the other actors okay enough to not cause this level of outrage but that actress in particular is singled out as disrespectful despite them all being equally inaccurate? Please dude; jusy say what you're thinking aloud for me.
@SPID3R-M4N_2O79 disrespect to greek culture my man - if they cast a white actor to do an african god or historical figure you would be outraged - but just cause the mythology in question is from white people in europe you try to pretend it isnt offensive or disrespectfull
@lucaspinheiro9822 Those white actors are no more greek than that actress is, skin color doesn't magically change that. If you wanna be mad at ALL of the historical inaccuracies equally then I wouldn't fault you for adding another to the list, but most people are just hating and retroactively looking for justifications to make their indignation seem more justified than it is "We're just doing it for the Greeks!" (I mean c'mon do you seriously believe they care about that?). This historical inaccuracy shtick is just grifter's latching onto a VERY small minority group who actually studies history enough to care about all this like the chameleons they are.
I'll say I know very little about about greek culture and the historical inaccuracies surrounding this film. I wouldn't know about all the "faults" if it wasn't for people freaking out about it online. I'm not even a very big Nolan fan but when I heard that he was making the Odyssey I was pretty excited because I feel like the theme is very fitting to his directing style. I like that the initial trailer didn't give too much away and I will definitely be seeing this in theaters and hopefully enjoying it. IMHO I feel like the criticisms have been getting pretty out of hand
I'm by no means a homeric scholar but i have read the odyssey and have an interest in greek and roman mythology. I honestly don't think that anyone could do the odyssey justice by adapting it into a movie. It's such a richt text that would make more sense a series if anything. And as for the Nolan adaptation specifically, from the moment i heard the movie being anounced i had doubts. Nolan does blockbuster action movies best, he does not have what i takes to adapt a text that is so deeply embedded into cultures and history he doesn't understand.
If this was a newish director, an indie project, or just a lower budget film in general, there’d be wiggle room. “We couldn’t buy a Greek ship, but someone would give us a Viking one so we went with that” would be a lot more forgiving if it wasn’t one of the biggest current directors making an epic big budget blockbuster.
I dont like Nolan movies so I will never see this anyway, but there is something strange about the lack of effort he has put into this from costume to actors, to the set and the props. He is know for detail but sounds like all the details are wrong. I would not be surprised if this under performs from his usual;
well Interstellar is a bit of a miss. It is a 8/10 film easy, but has a major plothole via the paradox, and frankly, has no real message other than "we killed the earth, better save the say somehow," even know that is left entirely vague. Even still, Interstellar ages better every year with the more and more slop we get. Batman? The first two are masterpieces. The third one is awful IMO. I saw the third one in theatres and have ever seen it since. The other two I watch at least once a year or every two years. Couldn't stick a landing though and that counts. Imagine if Batman 3 had been like Return of the King level? ok Prestige? That movie is one of my favourite movies ever. Really just perfect. NO plotholes but lots of scifi. Still makes me think to this day. I guess you could say the plothole was (spoiler) didn't realize they were (spoiler), but I mean c'mon. He is literally told by Michael Caine, but yeah such a good film wow. What else has Nolan done? Inception? Eh, it's ok, but so many plotholes and just yeah... that one really just makes no sense. Sterile really fits inception, eh? Ok what else? Tenet? Ew lmao. That movie is just... I don't know. It's awful. Repellent. Memento? I haven't seen that, but perhaps I should. Ok what else did Nolan do? Oh yeah Dunkirk? That is an excellent film, but not really a war movie and has too many flashbacks/forward. Nolan loves timeline hijinks, and I think it often hurts him. Prestiige is an example of of editing time hijinks that actually works well. Dunkirk is a good film, but suffers from a lack of actual war filming. The opening to Dunkirk is absolutely amazing though. Ok and yeah Oppenheimer. I love Oppenheimer. I think it's nearly perfect. But yeah can't stand Nolan fanboys, almost as bad as Villeneuve or Andor fans. I think Odyssey will be a huge miss but i will watch it on stream if it's better than Tenet. Tenet is unwatcgabvle lmao.
People did read about this a while ago but I don’t know what do you expect people to do… this was the filmmaker or the producers choice. The entire world is under economic crisis, civil conflicts and war and you expect people to care or do something about the occupied territories in the Sahara? Legit question, because I see people mentioning this and I want to now what do you guys expect to happen?
@LizziMcdee i don’t think this is about lack of empathy. People are overwhelmed. There are multiple conflicts and humanitarian crises happening at the same time, and everyone is also dealing with serious problems in their own lives. But I genuinely wonder what kind of impact or action people expect from the average person regarding this movie being filmed in a supposedly occupied territory? It often feels like there’s a reflex to point out an injustice whenever one is spotted but without a clear outcome or action behind it, it risks becoming automatic awareness rather than something that leads to real change…
Agree with some of the complains, but people should also realise that that A list actors are the ones who sell the movie. Many people are going in movies to see that particular actor
I kind of dislike the fact that Nolan only casts well-known actors even when the role calls for different people. He has certainly garnered a reputation not too common among directors, where his name is enough to get people to watch his film so he could give other newer or lesser known actors who are more suited for the role a chance. And yet I am still anticipating this film as I trust Nolan as a visionary (mostly). I do think the film will be quite different in theme, as you said but I still believe it may be one worth being told. But yes, this casting is rather cowardly.
I feel like this story would’ve been better suited with a Peter Jackson or a Guillermo del Toro in the director’s chair, but I’ll withhold judgement until I see the full movie in the theater.
I've never really liked Christopher Nolan's Aesthetic and for me has only ever worked for films like Memento and Insomnia. He referenced those Harryhausen films, but even they, despite how dated some aspects of those films are, did a beter job, visually, of capturing the vibrancy, aesthetics and atmosphere of those stories. It really looks like he got Beowulf and the Odyssey mixed up, in fact his aesthetic would work perfectly for Beowulf. Plus that casting at best, assuming the most good faith possible, comes off as the product of a marketing focus group.
Check out www.squarespace.com/abbieree to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code abbieree !
Hey all! Some of you have brought to my attention a few words I have mispronounced, I’m really sorry for the mistakes and appreciate you brining it to my attention! because of my dyslexia I genuinely really struggle with pronouncing a lot of words but I will make sure to triple check the pronunciation in future videos 😊
your pronunciation of some words in this is distractingly bad btw
@zurzakne-etra7069I tried to check all the pronunciation in post but some must of slipped through, because of my dyslexia I genuinely really struggle with pronouncing a lot of words but I really appreciate you brining this to my attention I will make sure to triple check some of the pronunciation next time 😊
Your distinction between “fantasy” and “myth” seems biased and inconsistent. You treat myths as more legitimate because they are widely believed, but belief alone doesn’t make something real. There’s no empirical evidence for the existence of these gods, so on what basis are they fundamentally different from "fantasy"? If both lack verifiable proof, the distinction appears arbitrary.
ABBY Did you Know the Lord of Ring Story S EI Story by Plato? CRAZY Plagirized
@zurzakne-etra7069 you ok?
I'm just wondering what happened to hiring unknown actors
They only care about making money by playing it safe. It's a shame. Would've been lovely to see some Greek unknowns breaking in
It would be the first movie to make negative money at the box office. You are not going to have a successful movie without a known cast with a pull. It's unfortunate but the reality.
It's the same thing with "why don't they make more original movies?" and when they do, no one goes to see them. Put your money where your mouth is.
Unknown actors? I thought all actors came from other actors or entertainment lawyers who are married to actors. Now there are unknown actors? What a world….
For real always the same people
@Ambatubusrn if the movie is good people watch it. Sinners, K-Pop demon hunters etc. Hollywood is ruled by old white men who want to repeat good ideas until movie goers get fed up. Then they complain that no one wants to watch their bad movies. Yet movies made by fresh eyes do better. Now they’ll try to replicate Sinners for the next 10 years and complain when each attempt is a flop.
he saw epic the musical top the spotify charts and said "i have to act NOWWWW"
😂 If Epic were directly adapted into a live-action it would have been waaaaaay better received than this.
This was exactly what I thought when this adaptation was announced. 😂 His timing was incredibly suspicious.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this 😂
That’s exactly what I thought. I was actually excited that he was jumping on the bandwagon. I didn’t know he’d butcher it this bad.
Jorge and his team put more passion and effort into Epic! When I heard the Odyssey was described as “colorful”, Epic does a very good job of adding color through the music alone. On top of that you have talented fans and artists making designs of the characters and beautifully emotional animatics. It really makes the tale as fantastical as it was meant to be seen as! It’s so crazy how a conceptualized musical made by a former medical school student turned musical maestro with an incredible grassroots team of singers and passionate fans/artists alike is 10 thousand times more better than this historically inaccurate, creatively sapped, almost monochromatic, toned down Hollywood “cinematic masterpiece” lmaooooo
if he loves the viking aesthetic then why not just adapt something from the norse mythology smh
He probably needed a real boat and figured this looked ancient and its already built.
no he shouldn't adapt anything from others myths
@rodycaz8984the northman is overrated
He didn't want to.
No way it's peak@FrankeNamensKarim
I find it a bit sad that actours ftom that region do not even get a chance. Love the videos keep up the good work
Yep. 0 greeks in the cast...
Even just people of Greek descent here in America and Canada, or even just have them talk with GREEK ACCENTS!!!
Get over it?
If you want to be a hollywood actor, you should probably move to hollywood.
They're not flying out to screentest 20,000 unknowns .
@TylerMatthewHarrisDon't Famous Greek actors exist? Why unknown actors?
@percyweasley9301of course they do. Hell, there are some actors in Hollywood who I didn’t even know were of Greek descent until people were talking about it in light of this.
It's like they really tried hard to cast the most non greek and non mediterranian looking people in Hollywood
I can kinda give a pass on Jon Bernthal, Anne Hathaway, and maybe Tom Holland, but the rest… yeah.
@MyDarkSubconscious
I can understand Bernthal, and maaaaaybe Hathaway, but Holland is a definite no, same with Damon.
@MyDarkSubconsciousYeah Tom Holland is especially british looking, and it's not just the skin but the overall features. Anne Hathaway... maybe could pass
@beatjunkybgfor what it’s worth, I have seen a clip by a RUclipsr named Lingualizer in which he’s on Omegle quizzing some random Greek girl on geography (really), and said girl does actually resemble Anne Hathaway.
We wuz Zeus and shieeetttt
Just saying... He spent how much simulating the most scientifically accurate black hole in Interstellar, but couldn't hire a few historians?
Fair
He spent a lot of green for scientific research on black holes and wormholes but couldn't open a history book smh. That's Christopher 'If it ain't black or white it ain't right' Nolan for you.
I had this book about that and Kip Thorne was like "idk what that was" when referring to the final design of the black hole they came up with lol
Well said. It feels like a total lack of respect, honestly.
How can one see something so epic and fantastical and drain it of all it's magic
Right. That’s why I was leery of Nolan of all people making this movie. He’s too realistic.
But there is going to be magic inside????
White Supremacist 🎉and far left ideological thinking tends to do that. They're the different sides of the same coin
@curriphacreatorThe point of the video is that he is anything but realistic 😅
While I'm not a historical accuracy snob by any means I do think there is validity to the criticism that Nolan forgoes Greek aesthetics when adapting a Greek myth by a Greek poet. If he wanted a Norse flair then he could have adapted the Edda which would have probably been a better fit for him especially given that it has not really been adapted for film at all before.
My problem is it seems that Nolan usually puts a lot more care into these things. His Dunkirk movie was actually filmed in Dunkirk for example.
Those armours are in no way norse either? They also don't work like in the slightest for acting.
Oh that's a good point! Some stories fromm the Edda would suit his storytelling and aesthetics way better.
LOL 🤣😂🤣😂
Yeah, I keep seeing these wildly inaccurate Greek story adaptions and think, why not just do Norse mythology?
We seem to have way less movies about Norse mythology than Greek mythology.
When watching Clash of the Titans 2010, Liam Neeson felt more like Odin than Zeus (Romans equated Odin to Mercury/Hermes).
Given how popular history has become online, especially historical arms and armor, why are Hollywood filmmakers so hellbent on staying behind the times?
Nolan may be red-green colorblind, but he could get help to portray authentic Bronze Era designs to be suitably cinematic.
Is it really that difficult to cast actors of Greek origin or at least of Mediterranean origin
Yeah, but then the film wouldn’t make as much moolah, it’s show business after all. Those no-name actors would not draw the masses to the movie theater like Zendaya & Tom Holland. Simple as that.
Even Latin American actors would do. They look very Mediterranean. It was not difficult, they just didn't care.
@FilonisHat Nonsense! On the contrary lion's share of audiences have fatigue from seeing these same actors again.
@osmolindqvist1567 I think you underestimate the terrible tastes of the general audience, my friend.
@FilonisHat Tom holland doesn't draw in the masses either, every project of his outside of Spiderman has flopped.
They conveniently forget that this story is a part of someone's cultural heritage.
They didn’t they just don’t care about heritage of white people. Would it be mythology of African or Arabic origin they would be very respectful
@zarombiste9158 they really aren't that respectful to them either they literally made Cleopatra black😭
Who? Like once you’re talking about classics like the Odyssey that story is present and talked about by everyone. Its like Middle Eastern folks claiming the Bible for themselves.
@TeaCakePony Cleopatra was not an Arab. She was Greek. In fact, basically no Egyptians were ethnically Arab at that time. They were ethnically Egyptian. I think they're called Coptic but I could be wrong.
its literally fiction bro
5:46 perfectly explains why consistency in the internal logic is hugely important for Fantasy. When the authors violate their own rules, their entire world falls apart.
"This isn't just about historical accuracy, it's about mega conglomerates taking foreign cultures and dumbing it down into neat little marketable packages" I think this sums it up pretty well.
You are talking about Christopher nolan , he is not netflix or disney .
This man is known for his complex movies , and youre out here saying hes dumbing it down ?
Do you even know who he is ?
@Neeklaaus those movies are only complex for people who are on their phone the whole time
@Neeklaaus Nolan movies are not very complex, sorry man.
@shiv-7723 in Nolan’s defence the premise of Memento and Tenet was quite interesting
The Odyssey isn’t some relic of foreign culture though, it’s a foundational artwork of western culture and belongs equally to English speakers as it does the Greeks. It honestly shows how disconnected people are to the western cannon that they focus on the casting as the biggest problem in this production. The real travesty is that every element of what makes Homer’s art sublime will be foregone, and that no one will notice
Edit: Replies to this comment have tried to spin it as some kind of colonised vs. coloniser dichotomy, which misses my point entirely. I'm trying to stress that an adaptation should be faithful to Homer artistically rather than ethnically, which Hollywood doesn't care about anyways
I'm really "off" about the casting. All fine actors; but they really don't fit the roles. That are almost too famous for this. They need to melt into the role, not scream movie star.
True they are not meant for the role but saying they cant "melt" into the characters is objectively a big lie...we are dealing with quite talented actors/actresses (that shouldnt have been casted tho🤣)
if he was so influenced by vikings then why didn’t he just make a viking film….
Bro especially since shows like Twilight of the Gods were so good. He def could've cooked something amazing like that
All I’m asking of this adaptation is for Matt Damon to sing “A Man of Constant Sorrow” 😆
Very o’ brother where are thou? 🫖 ☕️🧐… 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
9:10 Scheduling conflicts? Who expects to turn out historically respectful armor in a rushed timespan. That costume designer was not being serious
Peak cinema was the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
İt was peak because peter jackson was also a huge lotr nerd. He wouldnt dare making decisions like nolan did
And it really was, in the literal sense. After LotR nothing has been able to compare. That trilogy is the absolute peak.
If you're a normie fake nerd, sure. Laurence of Arabia is a better epic, and Spider-Man 2 is a better mid-2000s blockbuster.
@nectarinedreams7208 Did you just accuse someone of being a "normie" for liking LotR, then mention spiderman 2?
@joeallen3388yes, yes he did. What a normie.
The issue with Nolan’s Odyssey is that it looks lame. He’s making the Odyssey lame.
And if there's one thing the odyssey cannot be, it's lame.
Everything he touches becomes lame. I truly can't stand him.
It's truly very difficult to handle materials like The Iliad, Odyssey, etc because they're considered foundational literature of western civilization. Projects like this are a big hit or miss. He really fumbled hard with the casting already and the dull/muted color grading in the trailer makes me want to gag
9:59 so true it’s like Witcher fancast 😂
You are one of the few people that spoke blatant honesty on this movie subject....other either have love it blindly or hate it blindly but you spoke honest facts speaking like a true researcher....WELL DONE!!!
Don't worry, Nolan will randomly shuffle the narrative and have loud bombastic music to assure the audience that it's intentional.
Can it also have people speaking so quietly that no one can understand them? I think people love that!
@KaiHouston-m6j
Yes, it's always cute to antagonize your audience and keep them bewildered. Makes the filmmaker a superior genius!
the troy will fall and it will be loud, the loudest fall you can imagine
😂
And mush-mouthed actors that dont enunciate so you cant understand the dialogue.
I'm no historian but i knew that helmet was just wrong😂😂
So far he shows that profitability and easily consumble translation outweighs the another's nation cultural sacred legacy.He is the director that doesn't respect the National cultural from which the narrative comes from or the filmmaking as art but rather as industrial product of certain pattern
I'm assuming you haven't seen it yet. What did he do that made the movie more "consumable"? He made the movie the way he wanted with the people he wanted, that's the utlimate experession of artistic freedom and expression.
@makon89 Art isn't about disrespect, what he does is disrespectful and provoking towards Greeks
@Pererdardo This tells me you have no clue what art is and what it's supposed to do.
@makon89 Not only have clue what art is because i am artist mysel, but as Greek, what he does is more than what it would take to receive official ban.I do know what art is,the real question is if you know what culture is
@Pererdardo artists do not have to respect your magical stories
Nolan cultivated a fan base expecting perfect accuracy. He’s marketed his movies as, “We shot on the actual Dunkirk beach and used the actual…” This backlash is of his own making.
I don't think so. There were 300,000 men on that beach in real life and in Nolan's film it's mostly empty. Probably because of his reluctance to use CGI. Also the film pretends the civilian boats did the evacuation when they just assissted the Navy who did most of it. History nerds haven't been conditioned to hold Nolan to a high standard.
@M@MakerInMotion that’s the problem, his thing is “marketable” realism. The feeling of realism which no CGI helps push.
I believed he could pull it off till I saw this new tv ad "have you heard the story of the horse"????
I would’ve personally cast Oscar Isaac as Odysseus
I wouldn’t say he would be the best choice but certainly much much better than Damon.
A South and Central American cast would, unironically, look more Mediterranean than what they got. Hollywood loves Pedro Pascal; he would fit. Age-appropriate Nestor or something.
had exactly the same thought!
@CanalTremocosyeah, he was even in the Gladiator sequel for crying out loud!
A missed opportunity
As much as I love Nolan and I often use his examples of some of his movies as to how grays can be used effectively in a movie, I really am so tired of the belief that "gray = realistic" as if colorful settings are impossible to find in real life.
I feel like he was trying to take a jab at an Eggers type of project but Eggers' stuff works because he adapts things into his own vision that he knows fits them. On pure aesthetics, it feels like he was trying to make a square fit into a triangle-shaped hole.
I know it's not the best example because it too is anachronistic and ahistorical, but Troy at least is brighter and more colorful and while the costumes are also quite "fantastical" they are, in my opinion, more evocative of the region and "era" even if they had based themselves on pure aesthetic and on showing off more of the actors.
Also, Troy was partially filmed in Mexico and I'll never tire of sharing that factoid.
Like, Troy itself was super commercial and the changes and the adaptation of armor was definitely made for reasons of marketing the movie and showing it off. But at least it felt like ancient greece, I think, it wasn't hard to get immersed, for ahistorical as it definitely is.
I live in a sunny place. Greek is also quite sunny. Gray is actually, in fact, unrealistic when it comes to such places. I wish directors knew that.
He lives in the UK where theres a constant grey filter tbf
What I love about the comparison with Troy is that yes Troy was not accurate to History.
But Troy is not regarded as one of the best Historical or Mythological films ever either.
It's accepted as a very good Hollywood Blockbuster and that's it.
But Nolan fanatics would never admit to that. Never admit that The Odessey will just be another Troy.
They want The Odessey to be Peak Cinema and one of the Best Historical Epics ever made all the while it does the exact same things every other generic Historical Epic does.
@MK-uz4mo and there are so many pink, purple, yellow, orange and even blue flowers there!! beautiful trees, the ocean, it's an absolutely gorgeous place most of the time!
Fellini’s satyricon is an amazing fever dream trip into the past of Ancient Rome. An untouchable and alien time. The sets and actings and costumes and story perfectly fit the vibe. Nolan’s the oddessey looks sterile and American
Also Pasolini's "Medea" is a great, ancient-tale classic with a fever-dream aesthetic, great natural sets and great acting.
@Hinowa-n8vI’ll check that one out
If critiquing the current Wuthering Heights fanfic movie for being a bad adaptation, especially visually and in casting, is okay, critiquing Nolan's Odyssey for similar reasons is valid.
There are guys like Gaijin Goombah who give context for Japanese myths, why people and culture form fantastical stories and creatures.
Giving more historical context, especially visually, could help movies like say The Odyssey, help people understand the original work and how it came to be.
Characters like Helen and Athena were described as fair skinned because in that time period, being pale was a sign of beauty and privilege, because one could stay out fo the sun.
Nolan studied literature in university, and seems to attempt some intellectual approach to his films, so why not make a movie that could help people understand a pivotal work of western literature?
How is greek literature western literature?
@thewolf9851 Helenic/Greek thought is a major foundation of western culture.
It was heavily adopted by Romans, after Alexander the Great spread it as far as India (where statues of Heracles are erected as protectors besides early statues of the Buddha).
Some see the 300 Spartan Battle of Thermopylae as so historically important because it ensured Helenic thought would be spread as we know it.
Christianity, a Middle Eastern Jewish religion, assimilated Helenic thinking when integrating throughout the Roman Empire.
What we think of as Western Culture is leftover from Christendom, which included Western Europe, the Mediterranean, all the way theough the Middle East into India.
Several key Christian theologians reference Greek thought process in their philosophy.
The Trojan War was quite popular in Medieval Europe.
Shakespeare took heavy influence from Roman Helenic storytelling, retelling them in the style of his time.
It's why The Illiad and The Odyssey became staples of higher reading education in western literature curriculum, moreso than Beowulf, the oldest English poem.
Since Homer's work are some of the best composed and oldest Greek works we have, foundational even, they can be used as a starting point to examine Helenic influence throughout history.
@thewolf9851 because greek literature was and is the basis of european/western intellectualism and humanities
@thewolf9851 Ancient Greece is the cradle of Western civilization.
If he wants to be nominated for an Oscar he needs to meet the quota
It's especially frustrating when you compare it to a film like Dunkirk, where Nolan goes out of his way to use original still flying planes from that time, even getting it accurate down to the specific aircraft version, while in the Odyssey he apparently can't even get the millenium right.
In my opinion, Hollywood has lost a lot of money and is going down the tank. All these famous actors are freaking out b/c they need jobs and money, so they put them all in the only vehicle that is likely to make money anymore: a Christopher Nolan film. It's a gamble; I think it'll pay off, but not as much as they hoped it would. I hope this means the Hollywood monopoly will break apart and smaller studios will start to gain traction and make actual good quality, original movies again.
Indeed mate
I am afraid if this movie fails we will not get another big budget epic anytime soon and we have to watch Netflix slop for the rest of our life
@injamamulhaque166 It's truly a lose lose situation now.
Problem is that market forces are killing mid budget movies. It's all being consolidated into one monopoly
@RunningRugby4Market forces is a weird name for short-sighted executives who destroyed their industry chasing blockbuster universes.
The only thing stopping mid-budget movies is the studios redefining mid-budget to mean 50-100m films and their psychotic insistence on playing the worst version of the token game in existence.
They have no sense these days. They burn hundreds on projects that should be 30m at best and spend tens of millions on projects that should be a couple million.
When RUclipsrs start making better low to mid budget films than Hollywood itself, its not costs, it's corruption. Corrupt pockets and vision.
I wanna see a new version of Jason and the Argonauts
only if it has stop-motion monsters
In this day and age? Nah, they will ruin the casting as it seems it’s the trend lately
The original is an all time favorite!
You're funny. With this nonsense about to happen?
It’d have to have a much more complete ending than the old movie. But the real myth ended in horrific tragedy. The old movie cut off the story at the high point. I don’t think we as a society are ready for Greek-style tragedies, and amending the ending to make it happier might be too great a change.
Artistic stylization should still take into consideration the history and culture of the source material. This just seems like they ignored it altogether and stitched together a bunch of vaguely ancient-looking imagery, which is sad. Instead of using historical inspiration to make the movie look distinct, Nolan seems to have succumbed to the Hollywood clichés that can't imagine anything besides Ancient Rome and the Dark Ages. I'll be happily proven wrong by the actual film, but the trailer certainly didn't get my hopes up. And despite loving most of his movies, Tenet showed that even Nolan can make a stinker when he gets too used to the smell of his own farts.
3:17 The ill-ad? You mean the "ILL-I-AD"
Glad you're addressing this, thanks Abbie!
The problem we have with the casting is not because the actors are ugly etc. No, they are all beautiful and great actors BUT they do not look like Greeks. Helen was Greek, that's the problem. She was not from Africa, so the fact that they changed her race is what angered people. They made a movie about Greek people, and didn't even bother to cast any actor who looks at least a little bit like a Greek. ( I'm Greek by the way, and I wanted to explain that).
Zendaya and Tom Holland are not great actors.
@Lucca1103yeah well... They're still young. But for me they just play themselves.
Parts of Africa was a part of Ancient Greece. It’s one of the continents that Greeks colonized. Nor does she have a “race”. It’s a completely modern invention.
However, I don’t think they’re claiming Greeks are Africans. It’s just an American adaptation. I’m sure Helen will be reimagined as having darker skin not being an “African” or “black”.
Does it upset you when Greek plays are played by people of different races in other countries as well? It happens often.
This is Nolan’s vision for his production. It’s art. No one has to adapt a story the same way. Everyone has a different vision for their movies, musicals, plays, and tv shows. I don’t think he’s saying it must be adapted that way either. It’s just what he’s doing with his favorite actors.
@sweetxjc seriously gfto you hypocritical liberal.
She understands thats, its just that people use this as an excuse to say evil, racist things to the actress, thats all she was saying.
Lupita is gorgeous. And also her casting is bait. Studio sat around the table and thought 'okay we got everything we needed, now add a dash of culture war, that will do well on our social media KPI's.'
Abbie! I am pretty sure when I stumbled upon your channel you had maybe 400-500 subscribers. Now you are nearly at 70k!! Truly well deserved! You are one of the only culture/movie commentators that I agree with and enjoy watching these days. You have a great way of making everything very interesting and easy to understand.
Keep it up! You are doing so well!!
Wow thank you so much! You are so kind this has honestly made my day 🥺 thank you for supporting me for so long! I love making videos and am truly lucky to be able to do so especially with such a beautiful community 🌸💓
We missed the chance for some historical look
Ορίστε δεν είμαστε τρελοί, που μας κράζουν ότι είμαστε ρατσιστές που δεν μας άρεσε. Όλοι πιστευουν ότι είναι λάθος η ταινία. Άντε!! 😂
Αυτό ακριβώς 😂
Saying a black woman is ugly and therefore can't play a beautiful woman, is racist. Stop trying to hide your racism with "it's not historically accurate." are you complaining that a British modern looking man is playing a Greek man. I bet not.
Cus who said anything about race?? Your showing your ass. None of the actors look authentic. Not one. 😂
Great video!
As someone who's seen a lot of history buffs talk about this and as I'm remembering another video talking about the portray of fantasy I think the criticism is not about accuracy but more of the practicallity (like for example the chest armors that go to the hips are not practical because you can't really move or bend, that's why historically are to the height of the waist). And there are many many mistakes, but mistakes that any adviser could correct. And this led us to the second criticism to Nolan that is the stake. He's not the guy who directed Fast and Furious or Michael Bay, He's the guy who talked to an astrophysicist in order to portray accurately a black hole in Interstellar, or the guy who made sure to have every single part of the control boards period accurate in Oppenheimer; so the stake is very high... and the guy falls in every single Superhero/Hollywood cliché.
I can’t even give Nolan the benefit of the doubt to see it in theaters, it’s too expensive and lengthy. I can’t evaluate it until it comes on streaming
Where'd you get that couch? Its badass.
Thank you! Facebook Marketplace 😆
🤙@AbbieRee
@AbbieRee coming from a huge nolan fan I'm not excited about the odyssey robert eggers should of directed the movie instead
I cant wait for this now
Yay new video!
We are sooo back!
The Odyssey is basically Dune 3: a bunch of celebrities, including Zendaya, standing around emotionless on a big landscape.
😂...😉
Can you name one actor that isn’t a cel3ebrity?
@QuizMastersHQ broadway actors and many tv show actors are pretty unknown and very talented.
Is this really what Dune felt like to you?
@dukedukeson2158 name?
Great video as always and keep up the nice work 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you so much!! ❤
Thanks Abbie Ree for the wonderful comments 😊😊😀😊😊
Hello there Abbie ❤
Hello 👋
Robert Eggers should have done this movie.
No, his films always suck he always ruins all the work they put on to the astetic
Robbert Eggers seems too germanic and cold climate and pale-white obsessed to be capable of directing a movie about the ancient and sunny mediterranean world. I hope I'm worng about this
We also need to talk about the lack of Greek representation in Hollywood when it comes to myths about my culture. Having constantly big corporations cast the same actors while never giving platform for greeks or American greek actors speaks volumes about their hypocrisy as an all diverse team. They just cast anyone that's not greek but is famous enough to make headlines, promoting not a respectful presentation of a still living culture, but a cash grab exploiting the popularity of ancient greek myths. Making something aesthetic ruins immersion, ruins quality, especially when from the settings and production we see the lack of caring but a rushed production to increase the director's success
For Hollywood, diversity = hiring 1 (one) black actor and calling it a day. As someone who's brown, you basically never see any Middle Easterner or South Asian on screen except when it's time to play a terrorist...
Titanic was packed with unknowns and rising stars, right? And it did pretty well, to say the least. In contrast, it feels like even with an equally massive budget for Odyssey (2026), they probably spent the lion's share on super-famous actors and had to skimp elsewhere-perhaps '"refurbishing" a viking ship?
Titanic was diferent generation, around 2000 come couple good actors, that is not case in last nearly 20 years...
I'm still excited about it. I'm looking forward to seeing what such a big budget can do with the story. I spent January reading Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, Hesiod's Theogony and Works and Days, Apollonius' Argonautica and Apollodorus' Library of Greek Mythology. I'll probably stay excited about it.
well said 👏
Helen is from Africa? What? Come on! This is a joke!
That’s way more believable than the paper white actors. Greeks had extensive cultural exchange with the north of Africa and Persia (modern Iran)
@didididiah Really? You're barking up the wrong tree.
@stevenbayron5645 yeah really. Why else would Cleopatra have greek ancestry?
7:37 do you mean rolly Poly
Yes
People should just watch Robert Eggers and see how u make movies that feel believable and true
This is all just hilarious man😂
This cast would make for a wonderful adaptation of Ulysses, by James Joyce.
A film adaptation was done years ago with the great Milo O’Shea as Bloom.
Everyone on the internet is a historian all of a sudden lmaoo
@johnsinglet575
It doesn't take a historian to know that the changes nolan Meade to the movie don't make sense lmao
No, we are educated enough to know that he doesn't respect European cultural legacy.
@agusbrz78 *Greek cultural legacy
7:06 one of my favourite RUclipsrs 😍
Trust the process
Let's see the whole film before giving a final verdict. I mean, is it possible he transplanted the myth to a Viking setting? See for instance Oh Brother Where Art Thou as an example of taking the myth and applying it to another setting.
I might tolerate the historical inaccurate costumes, but can someone tell me why Jon Bernthal, Anna Hathaway, Matt Demon, and Zendaya, an American actors, in a adaptation of a Greek Mythology???
@ozi618 Some will say this for sure, and surely they are twitter stans or TikTok stans who are thrusts over some actors. But for me and other people, casting European actors for this at least will be much better than 60% of them being Americans.
Why are people so obsessed with where the actors come from and what their heritage is? They need to *look* the part, who cares if they are Americans? Americans are mostly immigrants' descendants anyways. Just... have people who look like what people (and gods, who basically just look like people) are supposed to look in Greek mythology, that's all.
Also There are american actors with greek descent
@MK-uz4mo Who cares if a Chinese guy play the role of Abraham Lincoln or MLK ?
Because it’s a 250 million dollar movie and the need good actors that will fill sets . Give me a list of good Greek actors that speak English well and can carry a movie that costs 250 million dollars .
EPIC The musical doesn't get hate for doing things a bit differently in the story and the animatics...people need to stop having double standards
I think we’ve lost the plot a little bit as a movie watching society, but I can’t fully put into words what has gone wrong in the film fandom at large.
From where I’m sitting, it feels like everyone has gotten into critiquing films before they even come out instead of waiting until they actually see it, at least as one of the problems. That sets people up to make decisions about movies based on superficial things like sets and costuming instead of the substance of the story and how well or not it was told. At their core, that’s what movies have always been about: telling stories. If we make a decision about a movie before giving everyone involved a chance to actually tell the story, we are doing the movie a disservice. If the movie ultimately fails to tell whatever version of the story the people making it are trying to tell, then great, talk about it. But assuming a movie is going to be bad based on the little bit of information we get before it’s released, I think that hurts the entire movie watching community, especially when that becomes the norm. People also have somewhere along the line decided that the people making movies need to tell the story that the people want them to tell in the way they want them to tell it. Whether it’s an adaptation or an original story, though, it’s ultimately the story the people making them want to tell, not ours. I’m not saying that what audiences want isn’t important but movie makers are artists and I think it’s unfair to act like they should conform their art to the loudest voices.
@PurpleKya very well said! I appreciate this!
@PurpleKya while i agree people jump to conclusions to quickly, filmmakers release trailers, posters etc to promote and advertise a film, and in doing so, they deliberately give an idea of what it's gonna be like. So it's completely valid for the audience to criticise what they see
@shiv-7723I do agree that it's natural for people to criticize, I just think that people put too much stock in it. Reacting to set photos is kind of like seeing an artist's drawing when it's less than halfway done since so much happens in editing. I just think that things are getting blown out of proportion because everyone and their brother has an opinion and voices it online so we end up getting so many critiques on something that isn't even finished yet, you know? I love the art of movies and I think people being cynical about them instead of giving them a chance hurts their (and whomever they influence) ability to truly enjoy it for whatever it is. I try not to even watch full trailers anymore or to stay out of the talk about movies, especially ones I'm excited about, as much as possible to go in with as clean of a slate as I can. That shift has allowed me to enjoy movies so much more and to go in with less preconceived notions, allowing it to be whatever it is, you know what mean?
@PurpleKya yeah i get it, but again, i feel like context matters. Your analogy is spot on for unintended leaks, but if the studio itself is releasing set photos and stuff, it means they're ready for us to see them, and then it's up to the audience to praise or criticise it. And I agree people shouldn't be too cynical beforehand, but blind optimism is just as bad imo
Blumineck mentioned 😍
zendeyas face launches things
in the opposite direction
I find that, given US socioeconomic history, they seem to have little regard for the differences in ethnicity within different skin colours. So they think that they are free to play around with IPs such as the Witcher because they were written by a white person. The cold hard truth is that these IPs do not belong to them, they may own them in the legal sense but they are not theirs. Witcher belongs to Poland. LOTR, Narnia, Harry Potter belong to the UK. Greek mythology belongs to... Greece. I'm not saying you cannot adapt such stories, but you have to have absolute reverence for the original authors and the context of their stories, anything else is cultural colonialism.
Yes.
The problem with Helen of Troy casting is in the fact that it was made obviously for culture war reasons. They knew what they were doing and they knew what the backlash will be! If you want to be mad about it, be mad at Nolan and those who made the casting choice! They used the actress to deflect criticism. Now imagine the outrage if they put non-black character in Wakanda.
listen im no nerd but even i know martin freeman was in those movies
@catbear305 Wait a second, you think that example of Martin, the white guy playing CIA agent somehow provides useful insight? CIA agent could be black, but he had to be white for explicit purpose of marking him as an outsider in Wakandian affairs.
Thanks for missing the point and polluting the conversation.
I disagree. I think the intention was to do something like the Whitney Houston and Brandi Cinderella movie which granted is entirely based on a fantasy world not in a realistic England or Greece. They simply remove the race barrier and the artistic liberty on the costumes helps with that
There is a non black character in Wakanda. This stuff and these events are fake. Not every adaptation must be the same. Blame the Greeks for colonizing most of the world and forcing their culture on everyone for this. They should’ve just kept their culture to themselves like other countries did and this wouldn’t have happened.
@somedud1140black panther has a white son and adopted brother in the comics
I wish more people saw this video....she adressed the actual facts without being blindly criticising the movie like most tiktokers have been doing
Resl
that doesn't surprise me at all
Except for quoting whoppie Goldberg of all lol😂
@gnanasabaapatirg7376??
Spent too long quoting Whoopie as if she had a valuable perspective to the criticism against the casting.
1:57 IM SO EXCITED FOR THE ABBIE REE FILM CLUBBBBB
A missile drop kick as a finisher is so badass
My main problem is that the costumes and armor look Roman. No one is talking about the Roman bias of fantasy and mythology in this discussion of Nolan's Odyssey adaptation.
I think the movie over all will be good, but o boy i will be grinding my teeth whole time looking at the costume and set design.
I could care less about that. Does the movie/story entertain me or not? That is what truly matters.
Can you do a video about historical inaccuracy in Shakespeare films now? Hamlet especially, I think.
Shakespeare's works aren't mythology of one's nations or historical books. They present universal human traits, no matter where and when. It's why they are still popular.
@agusbrz78 Most people, on identifying a trap, don't shove their head into it. I'm afraid your first statement is nonsense - MOST Shakespeare plays purport to be historical, and mythical characters like King Lear and Hamlet and Troilus & Cressida were likely considered equally historical in Shakespeare's day. You correctly identify the very good reason why nobody wastes time attacking Shakespeare for his historical inaccuracies (albeit fans of Richard III and Macbeth are quite vocal) which is the result of our having fully processed the idea that any good story can speak about far more than a historical context. However, my (rather insidiously presented) point is that people seem to pick and choose when and where this exemption may be applied. Nobody gives a damn about 'historical accuracy' when it comes to King Arthur, but for some reason we're supposed to think that a Greek myth can tell us nothing about the human condition beyond its allegedly historical context. Could it perhaps just be that we live in a time when one of the most popular modes of critical response to films is to moan and whine about stuff we've not actually seen? Could it in fact just be that sheep like to bleat? Needless to say, I quite understand that a person with a strong (and real) knowledge of history would be irked by a fantastical representation of a historical period - but it's of little relevance to the average viewer who is consuming a story for the story, not for the history it never claimed to contain.
I keep seeing the assumption that all Bronze Age armour was the full cumbersome outfit like the Dendra Panoply. But there have been only two or three of these heavy ancient panoplies ever found. All other depictions of Bronze Age armour by contemporaries show much more mobile and revealing armour of various kinds. Likely, the full bronze panoply was only used ceremonially for display or by chariot drivers. Nowhere is it shown on mosaics of vase painting. IOW, it was not common, even if they got some little guy to dance around in it as though it were.
Can someone pls tell me the song played on 30. Seconds please ???
Helen’s abduction was a family affair which spurred an epic war. Casting a historically implausible actress cannot fully convey the family and social dynamics that are the foundation of the story.
Still just a rumor btw, people getting outraged over something that's probably not even real lol
@SPID3R-M4N_2O79 just having her in the cast is enough disrespect
@tr_2339 Disrespect to who, you? Are you greek perchance? I don't believe there is a single greek actor in The Odyssey anyways, so why are the other actors okay enough to not cause this level of outrage but that actress in particular is singled out as disrespectful despite them all being equally inaccurate? Please dude; jusy say what you're thinking aloud for me.
@SPID3R-M4N_2O79 disrespect to greek culture my man - if they cast a white actor to do an african god or historical figure you would be outraged - but just cause the mythology in question is from white people in europe you try to pretend it isnt offensive or disrespectfull
@lucaspinheiro9822 Those white actors are no more greek than that actress is, skin color doesn't magically change that. If you wanna be mad at ALL of the historical inaccuracies equally then I wouldn't fault you for adding another to the list, but most people are just hating and retroactively looking for justifications to make their indignation seem more justified than it is "We're just doing it for the Greeks!" (I mean c'mon do you seriously believe they care about that?). This historical inaccuracy shtick is just grifter's latching onto a VERY small minority group who actually studies history enough to care about all this like the chameleons they are.
I'll say I know very little about about greek culture and the historical inaccuracies surrounding this film. I wouldn't know about all the "faults" if it wasn't for people freaking out about it online.
I'm not even a very big Nolan fan but when I heard that he was making the Odyssey I was pretty excited because I feel like the theme is very fitting to his directing style. I like that the initial trailer didn't give too much away and I will definitely be seeing this in theaters and hopefully enjoying it. IMHO I feel like the criticisms have been getting pretty out of hand
I'm by no means a homeric scholar but i have read the odyssey and have an interest in greek and roman mythology. I honestly don't think that anyone could do the odyssey justice by adapting it into a movie. It's such a richt text that would make more sense a series if anything. And as for the Nolan adaptation specifically, from the moment i heard the movie being anounced i had doubts. Nolan does blockbuster action movies best, he does not have what i takes to adapt a text that is so deeply embedded into cultures and history he doesn't understand.
lmao imagine if the boat ends up as a cgi rendition of Naglfar.
It would be interesting to see how Robert Eggers would recreate the world of The Odyssey.
The thing is that they already use tones of mony doing the movie, and getting the props and costums right would not make them poor 😅
If this was a newish director, an indie project, or just a lower budget film in general, there’d be wiggle room. “We couldn’t buy a Greek ship, but someone would give us a Viking one so we went with that” would be a lot more forgiving if it wasn’t one of the biggest current directors making an epic big budget blockbuster.
@DaveTheRaveyah Exactly!
I dont like Nolan movies so I will never see this anyway, but there is something strange about the lack of effort he has put into this from costume to actors, to the set and the props. He is know for detail but sounds like all the details are wrong. I would not be surprised if this under performs from his usual;
00:38 "Sterile" is the most accurate description of the way I feel about Nolan's work
Why
well Interstellar is a bit of a miss. It is a 8/10 film easy, but has a major plothole via the paradox, and frankly, has no real message other than "we killed the earth, better save the say somehow," even know that is left entirely vague. Even still, Interstellar ages better every year with the more and more slop we get. Batman? The first two are masterpieces. The third one is awful IMO. I saw the third one in theatres and have ever seen it since. The other two I watch at least once a year or every two years. Couldn't stick a landing though and that counts. Imagine if Batman 3 had been like Return of the King level? ok Prestige? That movie is one of my favourite movies ever. Really just perfect. NO plotholes but lots of scifi. Still makes me think to this day. I guess you could say the plothole was (spoiler) didn't realize they were (spoiler), but I mean c'mon. He is literally told by Michael Caine, but yeah such a good film wow. What else has Nolan done? Inception? Eh, it's ok, but so many plotholes and just yeah... that one really just makes no sense. Sterile really fits inception, eh? Ok what else? Tenet? Ew lmao. That movie is just... I don't know. It's awful. Repellent. Memento? I haven't seen that, but perhaps I should. Ok what else did Nolan do? Oh yeah Dunkirk? That is an excellent film, but not really a war movie and has too many flashbacks/forward. Nolan loves timeline hijinks, and I think it often hurts him. Prestiige is an example of of editing time hijinks that actually works well. Dunkirk is a good film, but suffers from a lack of actual war filming. The opening to Dunkirk is absolutely amazing though. Ok and yeah Oppenheimer. I love Oppenheimer. I think it's nearly perfect. But yeah can't stand Nolan fanboys, almost as bad as Villeneuve or Andor fans. I think Odyssey will be a huge miss but i will watch it on stream if it's better than Tenet. Tenet is unwatcgabvle lmao.
@drlca6601what are your top 3 movies
@drlca6601 You have a basically unreadable writing style. I'd suggest trying to improve on that, because... wow.
@thareelhelloagainHe wrote in Egyptian hieroglyphs, Imhotep-style..
Imhotep, IMHOTEP!!!
Great discussion.. Love this video.. 😊😊 from Northeast India..
Thank you so much! You are so kind! 🌸💓
If I see one more movie cast in any ancient era with the color grading of a dentists office im gonna crash out
No adaption can beat EPIC the musical ❤
It's his most expensive film because he's hiring too many celebrities
Bro spent 99% of his budget on the cast and the rest on set and costume design 😂
Also the movie was filmed in occupied territories of Western Sahara 🇪🇭
Unfortunately not a lot of people know about the conflict.
I read about this a while ago, sad to see how it just fainted away and people doesn't talk about it anymore
People did read about this a while ago but I don’t know what do you expect people to do… this was the filmmaker or the producers choice.
The entire world is under economic crisis, civil conflicts and war and you expect people to care or do something about the occupied territories in the Sahara?
Legit question, because I see people mentioning this and I want to now what do you guys expect to happen?
@acfan8253 I guess if the victims were white Europeans with blonde hair and blue eyes you would care more, right ?
@acfan8253you are a very unempathetic person to say the least
@LizziMcdee i don’t think this is about lack of empathy.
People are overwhelmed. There are multiple conflicts and humanitarian crises happening at the same time, and everyone is also dealing with serious problems in their own lives.
But I genuinely wonder what kind of impact or action people expect from the average person regarding this movie being filmed in a supposedly occupied territory?
It often feels like there’s a reflex to point out an injustice whenever one is spotted but without a clear outcome or action behind it, it risks becoming automatic awareness rather than something that leads to real change…
Agree with some of the complains, but people should also realise that that A list actors are the ones who sell the movie. Many people are going in movies to see that particular actor
The armor is actually ancient roman armor from around 300 - 400 AD.
It’s my birthday 🥹
Happy Birthday!
Happy birthday 🎂
Happy Birthday🥳!
Happy day of birth
Forgot to say, hope all your wishes come true🙏🥳!
I kind of dislike the fact that Nolan only casts well-known actors even when the role calls for different people. He has certainly garnered a reputation not too common among directors, where his name is enough to get people to watch his film so he could give other newer or lesser known actors who are more suited for the role a chance.
And yet I am still anticipating this film as I trust Nolan as a visionary (mostly). I do think the film will be quite different in theme, as you said but I still believe it may be one worth being told.
But yes, this casting is rather cowardly.
You put that so well! Thank you for sharing your thoughts I really appreciate it! I’m really curious to see how the film will turn out ☺️
@AbbieReeThank you so much! It was only because of your discussion on this that I was able to articulate myself!
So its not ok for Heathcliff, but its is for Helen of Troy. Got it.
I wish someone would do the Aeneid instead of always doing the Odyssey or Illiad.
a one eyed giant is called a cyclops
I feel like this story would’ve been better suited with a Peter Jackson or a Guillermo del Toro in the director’s chair, but I’ll withhold judgement until I see the full movie in the theater.
I've never really liked Christopher Nolan's Aesthetic and for me has only ever worked for films like Memento and Insomnia. He referenced those Harryhausen films, but even they, despite how dated some aspects of those films are, did a beter job, visually, of capturing the vibrancy, aesthetics and atmosphere of those stories. It really looks like he got Beowulf and the Odyssey mixed up, in fact his aesthetic would work perfectly for Beowulf. Plus that casting at best, assuming the most good faith possible, comes off as the product of a marketing focus group.