I work in a school IT department. A lot of the teachers seem to talk about how Finland or Hong Kong are innovating in the world of education. Admittedly, I don't know enough about their system to give an honest critique, but when I think about what might be wrong with education I instinctively compare it to other *industries* rather than other countries. In particular, I instinctively compare it to the tech industry. When I tell Pandora what kind of music I like and then give songs thumbs up or thumbs down, it uses an algorithm to figure out what sort of music I'm likely to like and what sort I'm likely to hate and it figures out how to just give me stuff that I'll like. If I buy something from eBay, I always see related goods that I might also be interested in. If I start recording shows with a Tivo, it will figure out the kinds of programs I like and suggest others for me. If I tell it to, it'll even just start guessing what I'd want based on what it knows I already like. RUclips seems to understand that I want videos about video games and politics. All around me, algorithms are learning about me, determining what I want and giving it to me. But not in our schools. Why are schools still 30 kids, all of the same age, in a room staring at a teacher? Every child is reading the same textbook and doing the same homework. Shouldn't algorithms be figuring out what each child knows and generating customized lessons around each individual child? Before the phonograph and motion picture, everyone who wanted to hear music or watch a drama had to go to the local theater. When the technology emerged to record them, society too the best musicians and actors and everyone started watching / listening to recordings of them, but we still have local theaters here and there. A teacher giving a lecture is essentially no different than any other performer. Why is it that we don't record the best lectures by some of the nations best teachers? Yeah, Khan Academy has been a *huge* advancement here. I'm not saying we'd replace our teachers, I'm just saying we'd redefine how we teach. Some teachers are good at giving an educational lecture, some are better at hosting a Socratic discussion, some are better at tutoring individual or small groups of students and some are good at devising lesson plans or grading papers. In the world we live in, everything from doctors to mechanics to programmers seems to have gotten ultra-specialized, but we seem to expect a teacher to be good at every aspect of teaching. Comparing American education to that of other countries is one thing, but when education anywhere is compared to other industries, its possible the whole world isn't doing it right.
We're are taught to get good grades, but I ask you why? The response I would get is "Oh to go to a good college" . But then I ask why do we need to go to a good college? The respond I would get is "To get a lot of money". Then I question that because is that all there is. We sacrifice so much just to get a lot of money and even if we did, that wouldn't even solve most of our problems. That is a very limited view about life because life is more than just that. I know that we all want to accumulate wealth, but not being truly educated and becoming rich is dangerous. We need to learn how to be passionate about learning again. Secondly, The system of education rewards high gpa's, but the system of life rewards tenacity, rewards the urge to tackle something you've never seen before. This is what most successful people have done because if you look at people like Michael Dell or Bill Gates, there success is not measured by a test or an exam. Just because you fail a test doesn't mean you are screwed for life. Look at the successful people in this world and an attribute that all of them have in common is that they are thinking in ways that you have yet to think. They are thinking in about things that no one has seen before. They came out of the box that the school system has put on them and they thought about Tomorrow. I ask you what do you think is the true education of your. Remember this that a formal education can make you a living but self education can make you a fortune.
I completely agree, but I would say you get good grades to go to a good college to get a good job to make a lot of money to support a family and be respected.
Parents would not want to get rid of the current educational system, as it equates to free daycare. Sort of. They pay for it through taxes, but people don't usually equate their benefits from government as tax dollars. They only equate other peoples benefits from government as tax dollars.
In the past, as a young student, I often tried to really understand and appreciate the subjects that I learned. What I did learn though is that the system doesn't care much for this. It's just learning and memorizing at the most superficial level and regurgitating what you've been taught to parrot. So two possibilities exist. Either you're extremely smart and could have learned all those things in depth on your own or you're an average student who has learned not to understand what you're taught and instead just cram stuff you intend to forget.
Personally, I think the idea of exams is extremely outdated. It's been proven that average Joe is nearly as effective as a highly qualified doctor or lawyer. When he can use a specialized computer program. Exams only test how good your short term memory is. A lot of the subjects I've got qualifications in I can barely remember. School needs to test you on speed of reciting information, innovative, practical, and evaluating skills. Not on how much you can remember.
Self education is the best education. Unfortuantely here in germany if you don´t have a Bachelor or finished an apprenticeship you are fucked. Here it is all about degrees.
VideoCritic358 True, if you don't have a degree you probably wont get a good job, the key word you used being Job. It's just a matter of fact that many hiring managers will throw the applications without degrees in the waste bin. They only use dialog, after they have improved their chances of finding the right applicant. You would to. Job: I. E. that privilege of working someone else's land( company). Unfortunately even the degree inst enough anymore, most employers want a degree, and experience. I'm sure their is a formula for success in this life and it does require knowledge. But lets face it, the only person who will ever care if you succeed is you. So if your waiting for someone to give it to you you might as well buy a lotto ticket. Most importantly anyone who has already made their own company doesn't need you, they don't need your help, and they don't have time for your problems. The only thing they have time for is their business, their family and their current employees. In that order. If you do get a good job and that's a big IF, good on you, you almost certainly deserve it. Just remember that your totally expendable, because theirs 50 people waiting in line that can do your job.
The funny thing is degrees were never a requirement until very recently in human history, and they will quickly become destroyed because technology is exponential. So all they will have done for us is waste the lives of those of us who achieved them- which is why I'm getting the bachelor's to get my foot in the door, but declining a master's or doctorate's because of the aspect of inevitable expiration. Evidence this is already happening: employer's place experience above education now (just look at a career description: it will equate a degree with a certain amount of years experience- saying something like "we'll take a bachelor's degree or equivalent 5 years of industry experience in related field."). It's so gay.
Although I agree with this video in essence, that doesn't stop me from wanting to become an educator, i.e. a "teacher" in a school. The school system is fundamentally flawed, but my primary intent as an educator will be to reach out to students in whatever ways I can, and that includes working both within and outside of the system.
what i learned in school: how to memorise a bunch of useless information ill never need to get a grade to deal with idiot students to deal with idiot teachers to deal with drama literally... all i learned but anyways yes i think school should only teach basics of maths and english (which you do before middle school XD) But we could do online course work where you get projects or work experience and are graded through actually trying the work and until you understand over 90 percent of that stage of the work then you can go into the next stage (like for example for doctors learning about the organs and ish first can be called stage one when they are done stage 2 when they complete that they keep on going up the "stages" until they complete it and can start working as a doctor) i think it be alot easier :P but if it was for something like the arts or something then maybe that could be different and be done online but idk XD
Judy Coyle i cant agree more but what you suggested aint gonna happen? want to know why? because they want you dumb im going back to public school to finnaly end this maddness once and for all in my district....
Great job summarizing this subject into a 3 minute video! John Taylor Gatto has done a lot of great work on this subject as well. The public school system essentially discourages any critical thought, creativity and inventiveness (you know....the things that make the world a better place).
Our system failed me, that's for sure. I was getting the highest scores on tests in school and I didn't do a single bit of homework. I was held back because of that. I was above average at least. Yet I was still considered a failure because I didn't want to spend all day at school then go home and still be at school. I ended up dropping out at 9th grade and getting a GED. There are probably consequences for me I don't know about yet. Thanks one size fits all system!
He makes a good point about education not being for a specific age as well as the idea of being with people the same age rather than at the same point in learning ability. Its all based off social expectations now rather than actual learning outcomes and it really is detrimental to society.
If a child is forced to o something that isn't interesting them and they feel they have no use for then they will probably not do well. If they are interested then they can truly pick it up with ease. The problem is forcing them to study things that don't apply to them. People of all ages should be free to get education on what applies to them at that time. When People feel this freedom they get it quite easily.
As a subject of the state and current high-school student, I can completely agree with this video 100%. Schools also fail to enrich a productive individual, for example, there was this kid in my class who would always do the minimum amount of work required (and sometimes even cheat!) and pass, while I tried to learn and would get C+'s and B's. When he did work, he did it not because he wanted to learn or participate, but because he HAD to. This resulted in him failing his final and me passing.
I could not agree more with this video. I was discussing about education with my mother, she's been in the field for almost 25 years and she is tired of the schooling structure. Without creative outlets or the freedom for students to apply their lessons to real life situations, how can they learn and be who they really want to be in life?
I have chemistry finals in a month and i dont know why should i even be memorizing lab preparation of chloroform or diethyl ether. Even if i become a scientist or whatever job i do i dont need to know how to make those stuff especially when its written in the book that they dont even use these chemicals anymore people just buy those stuff.
+kissaki G Be grateful that at least schools have reformed a lot in the past 15 years (at least some... I'm in VA). I do very well in science and I take honors...I have no interest in science and I just do it because I can handle the workload. In the past few months, completely forgot almost everything I learned in chem.
Education is defined, the process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, esp. at a school or university. Schooling is defined, education or training received, esp. at school. It should be, education is not the same as learning. Learning is defined, the acquisition of knowledge or skills through experience, study, or by being taught. Learn Liberty used the wrong words on this one.
Sachin Ganpat The definition I gave is similar in both the Oxford Dictionary and the Merriam Webster Dictionary. Those dictionaries are considered the gold standard for definitions in the English language. You could theoretically define these words differently, but then you wouldn't be speaking English anymore. Debates should use the commonly accepted definitions of words for the purpose of clarity. So I stand by my statement, it should be "education is not the same as learning."
Your flaw is that your thinking systematically rather than objectively. It makes sense to divide different subjects into different classes systematically, but the objective is for them to learn. People learn best by focusing on an interest. These interest can incorporate multiple subjects. If someone is interested in trees for example. That incorporates biology, mathematics, history etc. Thus it makes sense to teach them together.
The worst thing is being forced to do subjects that are not your interest or going to have any benefit whatsoever to your life. This to me is the greatest undermining feature to education. Most of the things I know now were learned by my own inquiries. It was as if I had wasted my time.
True - You will never use the formulas you learned in Algebra, Geometry or Physics. But as a person of responsibility, you will constantly be called on to solve complex issues with many unknown variables. Others will count on you to present those ideas, information and processes at a specific time and in a specific format so that they can be applied to other complex issues being resolved by other persons of responsibility.
I learn more from watching a few hours of Murray Rothbard lectures here on youtube than I learned in the entirety of my government high school "education".
I find it interesting that kids, just before they reach schooling age, will ask you so many questions it will drive you insane. Then, after a year of school or two, they have almost no interest in learning anything.
I think the biggest problem is that of communication and understanding. Students expect the teacher to make the material interesting so they can learn it, while the teacher expects the students to be generally interested in learning regardless of how it is presented (probably because the teacher was generally interested in everything as a student). Fixing this communication gap relies heavily on the teacher, because students generally expect the teacher to lead the class anyways. So teachers
I felt that high school is a prison when I was in high school. But I want to come back to high school student if I can do that. I agree that the school as we know it today started as a way to produce obedient and loyal subjects, soldiers, and workers. However, School contribute not only education but also sociality. I think shool is a important place in the world.
Schools are going in the right direction, though. Give them more time. I hate that you need to get such varied courses for an advanced HS diploma (4 science, 4 math, 4 SS courses, 4 English, 1 fine art/career/tech). Seriously? If I'm sure I want to do X, why do I need to take prep for Y, Z, A, and Q? But they're changing things. My senior year schedule (I'm interested in international relations): US Gov, Human Geography, AP German, Statistics, Geosystems (earth science - need a 4th sci credit)... There's hope. 1) They should start specializing maths earlier than in late HS (after Alg 2, give choice to take stat, (pre)calc, etc.) 2) Make one "science orientation" course where you learn in one or two years all the basics of each discipline like they want right now.
I go to a public high school, and I can tell you all that yes, the structured scheduled, getting herded to different rooms by the sound of a bell, etc. -- it is absolutely a prison. I honestly don't mind state-funded education, but the system should be at least set up so that the money is attached to the students in the form of tax credits, and have more charter schools to open up competition. That's how schooling can actually improve (and maybe even become an effective education).
As the voice of experience, let me explain to you why the structured nature of education is necessary: DISCIPLINE. Most young people, who learn the fastest, lack the self-discipline necessary to ensure their education, at least in the fundamentals necessary for further self-education.
Yep, I always or very nearly always passed my tests with flying colors, yet nearly failed 2 classes because I refused to do the "work". I would tell all my teachers "If I know the amterial why do I need to do the work? It is a pointless waste of BOTH of our time". Yet because they had too they still gave me bad marks and most of them said they hated doing it.
Well, if you look at a teacher's notes and planning you'll see so much creativity that you won't understand it. Most teachers (not all) do teach in a standard style with a little flair because they find it interesting. They spend at least 80% of their lifes on the job. So it's not their fault they seem boring sometimes. Lucky for me I had one of the best high schools and had so much creativity with standard style learning that it made it fun. Hands on with books is very very very useful.
It depends on the private school. I came out of a public school (i.e a private school) for 1.5 years. I hated it, but I was miles ahead of the kids at state school I went to afterwards. I agree with you that the teachers in state schools are at least of equal standard - and many wouldn't take a private post on ethical grounds. But most state schools have about 30 kids per class, where most private schools have around 20 - the difference this makes with one teacher per class is unreal.
This was really good and I totally agree. I hope that the internet and things like free online lessons will help to break us out of the creativity crushing modern school system
As a home schooled individual my employer values my self-driven dedication, focus, and ability to cut through roadblocks to achieve the critical goals that no one else in the company can see from their vantage point. Meanwhile there are plenty of traditionally educated people I hire who fail to demonstrate drive or value despite being capable underneath it all. I don't think the problem is the method of education. I think the problem is our culture of entitlement.
my god this is exactly what i thought about school that it was more like a structured prison more than a place that i go to learn new things and things that i WILL need later in life the things that I WILL need to do the job/goals i want in life and that i want to reach in life.Finally I've found someone else who thinks the same :D
I think you're on the right track, but I would take it further and allow the vouchers to be used for extra-curriculars like soccer, piano practice or boy scouts. Charter/ private schools could charge different "voucher" prices and the parents wanting to get the most out of their allotted vouchers would kelp keep the overall cost of basic education down. Some schools would provide the bare minimum, others may charge more for a deluxe style education, but the decision would be in the parents hands
This is cannot be any more correct, and it is why I applaud not only the idealism of breaking away from the rigid school structure, but also the reinforcement of that ideal by providing FREE and flexible courses on matters that affect our world. Thanks to all those who pour effort into Learn Liberty. By the way, this isn't spam from the Learn Liberty guys, I am writing this on my own accord, I just really believe in what these guys stand for.
Discovering the internet was the greatest thing to ever happen to me. I went to public school in a severely run down city. I didn't learn much and I hated every minute of it. The internet is a freaking god send
Learning is what we ALL do, regardless of age, background, etc so forth. We learn and take in information constantly .. this information may, or may not be new to us.. The school system, as it stands fails many.. and in actual fact makes young people actually turn way from opportunities to learn. As stated, it is only by sheer accident that something may be learned.. a lot of children just merely " turn off"
When I was in school I just wished they'd given me the roadmap and let me go at my own pace. Wasn't the best classroom learner, perhaps that's another thing that needs to be addressed.
I'm an IT guy in the Army. Right now, I am studying for the CISSP through an Army class as part of a larger 9 month study of IT related subjects. Considering the contents of this video, it's almost ironic in that I believe that the Army is doing it right. We have a solid week (8 hour days) or two dedicated to each subject we are taught with a capstone bringing all of it together at the end rather than learning each subject an hour or so at a time simultaneously (essentially dividing our focus).
I'm sure there's plenty of reasons, study load, overall difficulty, social maturity. I remember in primary school going with 4 other kids to some science convention for doing well on a test, some kids from other schools had already invented patented products and a couple were in Mensa... The competition is brutal nowdays lol, reading well wouldn't be enough.
I see what you mean, but, the first step to solving a problem is recognizing that there is one. It's a movement in the right direction, maybe he'll do more videos on the topic.
What if we close all the schools and universities at once? Do you think that would produce negative/destructive results for the future of society? Do you think closing all the institutions for schooling would take us back to the barbaric time? What if it doesn't? We don't know when we haven't tried yet. I've learned everything in my life by reading books(text books and other books) all by myself and I've practiced everything I learned form those books all by myself. Schools and teachers never taught me anything; they just made my life miserable by their homework, tests, attitudes, prejudice, and pressures. Just looking at the buildings of schools (from elementary schools to high schools or any university building) they all make me feel depressed and nauseated. I don't have any good memories throughout my school years(if you did then fuck you). all the memories are just tense feeling or feeling threatened by teachers and bullies all the time, and everyday was just like being trapped in a hateful prison of completion (competition in educational challenges and social challenges). I think the origin of all social anxieties are schooling experiences that we all go through. If someone never goes to school and only home-schools by himself with the help of his/her parents he'd never develop any social anxiety an would be much more healthier mentally. In case you're wondering how can the country have scientists, doctors, engineers, etc. by home schooling? well, hospitals, factories, and all businesses can teach these knowledge and skills to those who have the right talent, intelligence, and interest. No need to build a separate building in society and name it school. In schools I only learned wrong and false concepts and beliefs, things like: everybody is equal, or, we all are equally intelligent and talented, or, anything and everything is possible, or, nothing is impossible, or, life is a box of chocolate (especially when you get punched in the stomach in the schoolyard by a chocolaty schoolmate), or, obey your authority figures or you'd be in trouble, or, anyone who doesn't go to school will end up being a worthless junkie, or, don't be individualistic and unique; try to be always a replica of everybody else, or, never complain, or, you have no right to your independent thoughts, or, shut up and only repeat after us, .... etc. Fuck schools.
Jay Wolf "I don't have any good memories throughout my school years(if you did then fuck you)." Wow, just wow... That's a bit presumptuous... I enjoyed alot of moments in my time in public school. I'm one of those people who live in the middle of nowhere, and some of my only friends, you guessed it, were at my school. I may have been a bit of an outcast alot of the time, but I enjoyed it... cause, you know... I actually got to see PEOPLE. Don't just say that "Anybody who has a different view... fuck you." Its an opinion, not a fact. "If someone never goes to school and only home-schools by himself with the help of his/her parents he'd never develop any social anxiety an would be much more healthier mentally." So... taking it from my context, living with my grandparents in the middle of nowhere, I would be more socially adept if I had never had a way of going out and interacting with other people? Trust me, its a lonely existence... I home school now, and I enjoy it ALOT LESS... mainly because there's usually no one around.... When my grandparents leave the house, Im all by myself, nobody to talk to, no sign of anybody.... Trust the person who has experienced it... It'll drive you half crazy, and I was already crazy beforehand..... "No need to build a separate building in society and name it school." How about this: go to home school instead... Then you can experience it. It is a choice, not a rule, to be public schooled. There are people who would do better in a school environment than a home environment, just like there are people better with home environment than school. Different stroke for different folks. "everybody is equal" Every single person has the same chances to make money, become politics, etc... Its all about your drive and determination. If your willing to work hard, your equal to anyone else who works like you do. No one is born with an qual social status, but the law treats them all the same. That's what schools mean when they say "everyone is equal." "don't be individualistic and unique; try to be always a replica of everybody else or, shut up and only repeat after us" My school constantly told me the OPPOSITE of what your'e saying they told you. "never complain" What GOOD does it do to complain if YOU (not somebody else, YOU) don't do something about it. Don't bitch and whine, DO SOMETHING!! I was not taught that by my school, but by my family. No one wants to listen to your sob story. There will always somebody worse off than you, that has more drive than you... and THEY are getting somewhere in their life by NOT complaining. Take a hint and get up off your arse. "Fuck schools." And while we're at it, fuck yourself. I think I'm done ranting now.
CrackedLogic Productions I don't think I "whined" about my life or past; I just introduced to people another way of looking at "education", a new perception, so they don't live in this dead end that the only path to learn things is going to school. I didn't even specifically promoted home schooling, but I thought elementary education like reading, writing, and arithmetic can be learned at home because it's more relaxing to the shaping minds of children, instead of being bullied and pressured to learn these essentials and ending up hating them, which would cause them to hate education. Once a child become old enough he/she would have stronger ability to enter society and deal with the essential harshness of living and working among people. I never said they should always stay home. On the contrary I believe as soon as they're old enough they should leave. But it is YOU who did exactly what you accused me of, imposing your life experiences on others. You wanted to complain to your grandparents you ranted on me by projecting yourself on me. Not all home schooling experiences would be like yours. But if you really love to be out in society and experience the wonderful human beings out there, go ahead. what are you waiting for? you fear to go outside and blame it on me for introducing different alternative to education? you're just an example of a typical asshole. your words have no basis therefore bullshit.
Jay Wolf Thank you, Sounds familiar. I thought it was just me and my son's that felt this way. My oldest son was bullied by the vice principle, intentionally. My son's are adults now and living, functioning well, far away from corrupt Washington state. Basic math and reading is all that is essential up to advanced education. They love to read, we read to them as kids. Teaching them to question things that are wrong, or end up in a rail car to a gas chamber. Ring a bell and watch the rats run to the next maze. My son that was bullied? He works in the medical field, he will never returned to high school reunions, the high school I also attended and never returned to. They see friends from school, but refuse to visit the state institution. He was prompted to return after the shooting there at MPHS, for a candle light vigil. He wasn't interested in the foolishness. When I told my younger son of the shooting, he said he was surprised it took this long to happen. Running schools like prisons with "lock downs", "searches". None of these prison operations/actions prevented the tragic event. The irony was the freshman class king that did the shooting and was a tribal person, a protected ethnicity. Recently my property taxes went up 20% because the courts ruled non-tribal/tribal business owners on tribal land are exempt from taxes paid to the county schools. Translates into a long division problem of everyone else paying more taxes for the education of the tribes murderous children. The Tulalip tribes are absent in paying their fair share. I enjoy learning/education, but not indoctrination into a system that is bloated and corrupt. Teachers in Washington are having one day strikes for wages and benefits, they seem blind to everyone else taking cuts in wages and losing defined pensions. The teachers union WEA places themselves far above the taxpayers and students. My son's were fortunate to have a couple of good teachers, but most pushed the liberal state agenda.
CrackedLogic Productions i homeschool but ya know what i dont care about having friends IM FINE idk why you need friends i never really had any (true) friends ive been fine YES i was bullied but homeschooling has made me wiser and its so much better i cant understand why you feelbored with no humans around
3/? Because I chose to join the Navy out of high school and then go to college after the Navy, I'm in an odd circumstance where I have been going to various schools since I was 5 and I'm now 30 years old. The Navy is all about education. After 1 1/2 years of tech schools I went to the fleet and about every 6 months did one course or another furthering my technical and leadership training. I would agree a little booster education is a good thing. However going to college so old hasn't been easy.
Fantastic video. I had a professor for couple courses in undergrad and grad school who had a very similar outlook and I'd felt like I learned more from him than I had in pretty all of my formal education up to that point, rote memorization aside. Ever since then, through the rest of grad school and especially with the internet and by surrounding myself with others who similarly value education, and it went from being a chore to being a pleasure to learn. I'd love more videos on this topic.
6/7 I would love to hear radical new ideas on education. Some of the other stuff like hierarchical schools, or "rigid schedules" just seem to be basic human functions, not exclusive to school. I suppose you could just have a random person talk for a random number of hours on whatever comes to their head but that's not in the realm of "productive" if you want that, listen to a podcast.
true! me too.i have been learning economic, biology, nutrition, fitness, some philosophy and politics from internet too, something i was completely ignorant of in 12 years of high school.
What about their changes through life? Will they like the same subject from childhood when they are an adult? Should we immerse our students in a variety of subjects? How do we know they will even try to expand their universe?
If you're stuck in the rudimentary classes, it will definitely feel this way. But in the higher tier classes it's a different story. I doubt there is a better system for the US that can be universally implemented.
Universal implementation is not the goal. "Centralized anything" doesn't work. What we need is no government involvement and more competition in the schooling market to see what systems work best and then other systems can continue to improve upon those systems. Instead, with this system we are always going to have to expect super slow change if we get any real change at all.
5/ I think the law of averages would generally produce classrooms of students about the same age. I get the idea that if someone has trouble they might need to go to a special school, or if one person excels in one subject they can be moved forward in that subject but perhaps need remedial education in another subject. Basically that might be like making elementary school like high school, seniors and freshman may be in the same class, but overall the average will be about the same age.
Agreed that the current school system is not the best educational system for everyone. However, it does work well for many. It would be interesting to hear what alternatives you suggest.
Books are written in plain English, a language we all understand. If you don't get it just decrease the difficulty of the material or increase your effort. Now with the internet you can get pretty much anything that previously required a library.
I'd love to get away from the idea that our current system of schooling is the only way to educate people, but I don't know of any promising alternatives...
Well that depends on an area's policies for school transfers. But as I said, there is a rather huge way around that incentive; simply avoid admitting bad students, and education has the appearance of improving when it actually hasn't. Still the same number of good and bad students, the bad students just aren't at your school. I didn't say private schools have no incentive to improve education, it's just not that much different than public school incentives.
Parents must teach their children things that they may not learn in school. If they are not happy with free public schooling, then they should get the resources to homeschool them or enter them into a private school that fits their criteria. Use the Internet as a source of information for your children. Not everyone can pay for schooling, and it's awesome that we even have a free education system in the US.
I remember one of my earliest memories about school was that it was a prison and the adults always said it was a school and it was good for me, but I knew..... that I was in a cage I was not allowed to escape
To replace college, I think we should just have people go to proctored exams and graded papers. You do the classwork and learn the material in whatever way you choose and you are said to have passed a class. Pass enough classes and you have a degree. Use the GRE general and subject tests to distinguish between the quality of different people's self education. This could be done very cheaply.
My sister is a public high school teacher. Unprompted, she regularly rants about many of the "schooling" problems mentioned in this video. The solution, per usual, is separation of education and state, preferably via abolition of the state.
I have a friend who is a professional saxophone player. He understands grades. It is graded by the club owner who decides whether or not to hire his band. He is graded by the fellow members of his band . And most importantly he is graded by his audience as I order another Jack and Coke, and decide if I want to come see him again. Because he understands grades, on a very consistent basis this artist puts in the effort at home that he needs to produce Goldstar results on stage. Just like school.
Great video, except the question about learning at any stage might not be so good. The human mind is most fertile for education in its first 14-18 years, then diminishing returns happen. Basic skills like reading, speaking, numeracy etc. are best learned early on
i think all he meant is that we should be continually learning and education shouldn't be limited to one bracket of time in a persons life. my only issue is if your going to dismiss a system then you need to provide an alternative
brickclimber That's a fair interpretation, I think. I've heard some really interesting ideas on how the internet might change our approaches to education. I'm considering home-schooling my daughter (to be born in March!) because of the incredible learning tool the internet can be.
I can understand what he's saying, but still believe the heavily time structure schooling is better. Our system was tailored to being at certain places at a certain time, which is a skill far more important that most other things you could learn in school.
I know a lot of "public schools" have varying curriculum but I'll tell you about all the things that my schools never taught me about: 1) How to start a business. 2) How to pay taxes. 3) How to be self-employed. 4) The current rules and regulations of law. 5) And drum roll..... How to make money. What a "brilliant" education I had. Pffth!!!
I agree, although my university has class times that are scheduled, it is more guided by the wants of the student. This seems to be much more about k-12 schools.
You have to move to another part of the district or go to private school to go to another. Private schools do have incentive to improve education. If their product (educated children) becomes less successful than other schools' products, their reputation suffers and they make less money.
Well, what you say about parents are debatable. I think it's more that parents are too busy working and just staying alive to be able to think about these things. I heard that 50 years ago, a single parent can support a family of four easily. I hear that parents today struggle even with both parents working maybe 2 jobs. That's ridiculous and to me, having to struggle with both parents working with 2 jobs is ridiculously unfair.
School is, by definition, forced indoctrination. Hell, you can probably call it slavery if you get a lot of homework. I remember a time when I was depressed, and I loathed waking up everyday to go to school. Also, it's a proven fact that almost 90% of what we learn in school is forgotten by the time we are finished. Knowledge that can't be applied to your life is useless. Even though I skipped mountains of homework and hundreds of days of school, I was able to ace nearly every test, and my reading level was way higher than normal. Ah, feels good to get that off my chest..
7/7 Only suggestion now would be to not have such rigid schooling requirements for graduation. I think in school's efforts to cram a certain amount of info, and teaching to pass certain tests, "education" is lost. Ultimately people forget most of the stuff they "learn" in high school, why not focus on people's critical skills/weaknesses. Instead of worrying about everyone being on a flat plane, give the gifted a chance to soar, and the struggling a chance to work on their weakest points.
2/? Another thing to consider in why education is best for the very young is empirical studies on how the human brain develops. We learn a lot more a lot faster the younger we are. You want a bi or trilingual kid, start them at age 5, not 15, or 20. Another purely logical reason for education in youth is that once an adult people are expected to be productive, biology and society is designed for this. No other period in life is education more logical than youth.
Not all public schools are the same, if one sucks you can go to another. My high school had the IB program which was as good as any education I could've gotten, though not all schools have that. I don't think there's a drastic difference in the quality of public or private in principle, it's mostly based on the funding each one gets, and the teachers they can manage to attract. Private schools also don't have much of an incentive to improve education; they can just get rid of the bad students.
I am still a student and have a half-sibling who is still in elementary school. Cursive is still taught, calculators are not mandatory, history is still taught with no Elmo involved, and learning another language at my high school was highly encouraged (Spanish, Mandarin, and French were offered with a couple more available through extracurricular options I believe) . I am not a leftist nor someone who considers himself a "righty" either but I don't like hearing plain lies and conspiracies.
what they mean by "school is the only way" is that it's impossible to none to even be relevant in this world without education. I mean a bachelors degree is nothing nowadays you even have to go to graduate school, so as unfortunate as it is, the world is already set up for us young people and I will go to university and try to get the highest degree of education, only I will always be skeptical and never suck up to big government
I feel that the school system is messed up. In elementary school your thought all the wrong things, All the stuff i was thought in elementary school had to be 'untought' (not a word i know) in middle school. I didn't actually start learning until highschool but by then the foreign exchange students were years ahead of me. I suggest that instead of teaching kids the wrong things in elementary school we teach them right and actually grade them for more than just trying.
I guess you can say he was hinting at the prospects that education doesn't necessarily need a traditional or even tangible structure. Sure some people perform well in a conformist highly structured while others do not. I would suspect that he would advocate for a competitive market in education would lay the framework for multiple schools systems to compete against each other. The top down militarist style doesn't work and a decentralized, voluntary, competitive style could be better.
I have a feeling that you are on the right track by exploring what is presented here. Keep an open mind and learn about what the Classical Liberalism is all about. I can see that, at this time, you may disagree with some points but thats ok and even healthy. Personally, over the years, I know that I went from being social-liberal than a conservative and now see my self more aligned with principles of classical libertarianism. Personal ideologies evolves over time just like anything else in life.
You mean the constant shipping form one set of subject matter to another without acquitted time to actually let what you just went over in the last class sink in? Interesting. Never even thought of that. But it does explain the learned behavior of inability to focus. As when you learn something you are instantly pushed to drop what you were doing and work on something else continuously.
studied for test.
pass it.
forgot what I learned.
for just one piece of paper(degree/phd/master)
+Dan Garcia, "learned", more like memorized.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice"
I work in a school IT department. A lot of the teachers seem to talk about how Finland or Hong Kong are innovating in the world of education. Admittedly, I don't know enough about their system to give an honest critique, but when I think about what might be wrong with education I instinctively compare it to other *industries* rather than other countries. In particular, I instinctively compare it to the tech industry.
When I tell Pandora what kind of music I like and then give songs thumbs up or thumbs down, it uses an algorithm to figure out what sort of music I'm likely to like and what sort I'm likely to hate and it figures out how to just give me stuff that I'll like. If I buy something from eBay, I always see related goods that I might also be interested in. If I start recording shows with a Tivo, it will figure out the kinds of programs I like and suggest others for me. If I tell it to, it'll even just start guessing what I'd want based on what it knows I already like. RUclips seems to understand that I want videos about video games and politics. All around me, algorithms are learning about me, determining what I want and giving it to me.
But not in our schools. Why are schools still 30 kids, all of the same age, in a room staring at a teacher? Every child is reading the same textbook and doing the same homework. Shouldn't algorithms be figuring out what each child knows and generating customized lessons around each individual child?
Before the phonograph and motion picture, everyone who wanted to hear music or watch a drama had to go to the local theater. When the technology emerged to record them, society too the best musicians and actors and everyone started watching / listening to recordings of them, but we still have local theaters here and there. A teacher giving a lecture is essentially no different than any other performer. Why is it that we don't record the best lectures by some of the nations best teachers? Yeah, Khan Academy has been a *huge* advancement here. I'm not saying we'd replace our teachers, I'm just saying we'd redefine how we teach. Some teachers are good at giving an educational lecture, some are better at hosting a Socratic discussion, some are better at tutoring individual or small groups of students and some are good at devising lesson plans or grading papers. In the world we live in, everything from doctors to mechanics to programmers seems to have gotten ultra-specialized, but we seem to expect a teacher to be good at every aspect of teaching.
Comparing American education to that of other countries is one thing, but when education anywhere is compared to other industries, its possible the whole world isn't doing it right.
We definitely need to replace our indoctronators - aka teachers - with computer generated avatars and custom tailored curriculum for each student.
We're are taught to get good grades, but I ask you why? The response I would get is "Oh to go to a good college" . But then I ask why do we need to go to a good college? The respond I would get is "To get a lot of money". Then I question that because is that all there is. We sacrifice so much just to get a lot of money and even if we did, that wouldn't even solve most of our problems. That is a very limited view about life because life is more than just that. I know that we all want to accumulate wealth, but not being truly educated and becoming rich is dangerous. We need to learn how to be passionate about learning again.
Secondly, The system of education rewards high gpa's, but the system of life rewards tenacity, rewards the urge to tackle something you've never seen before. This is what most successful people have done because if you look at people like Michael Dell or Bill Gates, there success is not measured by a test or an exam. Just because you fail a test doesn't mean you are screwed for life. Look at the successful people in this world and an attribute that all of them have in common is that they are thinking in ways that you have yet to think. They are thinking in about things that no one has seen before. They came out of the box that the school system has put on them and they thought about Tomorrow.
I ask you what do you think is the true education of your. Remember this that a formal education can make you a living but self education can make you a fortune.
I completely agree, but I would say you get good grades to go to a good college to get a good job to make a lot of money to support a family and be respected.
Parents would not want to get rid of the current educational system, as it equates to free daycare. Sort of. They pay for it through taxes, but people don't usually equate their benefits from government as tax dollars. They only equate other peoples benefits from government as tax dollars.
PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!!! This man explained in 2 minutes what I have been talking about for years!!!!!!!!!!!
In the past, as a young student, I often tried to really understand and appreciate the subjects that I learned. What I did learn though is that the system doesn't care much for this. It's just learning and memorizing at the most superficial level and regurgitating what you've been taught to parrot. So two possibilities exist. Either you're extremely smart and could have learned all those things in depth on your own or you're an average student who has learned not to understand what you're taught and instead just cram stuff you intend to forget.
Urza26 I'm both :P
I have been reading physics books since I was 17, but I just ignored school and their outdate and largly useless gibber jabber.
*****
How do you know you don't like showing tiger claws up your ass?
How could you know if you don't try?
*****
Rounded untill 14.
Focus in on a few (3-5) subjects until 18
After 18 focus on one subject.
Learning without free will is useless
Personally, I think the idea of exams is extremely outdated. It's been proven that average Joe is nearly as effective as a highly qualified doctor or lawyer. When he can use a specialized computer program. Exams only test how good your short term memory is. A lot of the subjects I've got qualifications in I can barely remember. School needs to test you on speed of reciting information, innovative, practical, and evaluating skills. Not on how much you can remember.
Self education is the best education. Unfortuantely here in germany if you don´t have a Bachelor or finished an apprenticeship you are fucked. Here it is all about degrees.
It's basically the same here in America; if you don't have a degree, and even if it is not a high ranking degree, you won't be accepted for a job.
Not only in Germany.
Its because as the government gains more power they take away more freedoms incrementally
VideoCritic358 True, if you don't have a degree you probably wont get a good job, the key word you used being Job. It's just a matter of fact that many hiring managers will throw the applications without degrees in the waste bin. They only use dialog, after they have improved their chances of finding the right applicant. You would to.
Job: I. E. that privilege of working someone else's land( company). Unfortunately even the degree inst enough anymore, most employers want a degree, and experience.
I'm sure their is a formula for success in this life and it does require knowledge. But lets face it, the only person who will ever care if you succeed is you. So if your waiting for someone to give it to you you might as well buy a lotto ticket.
Most importantly anyone who has already made their own company doesn't need you, they don't need your help, and they don't have time for your problems. The only thing they have time for is their business, their family and their current employees. In that order. If you do get a good job and that's a big IF, good on you, you almost certainly deserve it. Just remember that your totally expendable, because theirs 50 people waiting in line that can do your job.
The funny thing is degrees were never a requirement until very recently in human history, and they will quickly become destroyed because technology is exponential. So all they will have done for us is waste the lives of those of us who achieved them- which is why I'm getting the bachelor's to get my foot in the door, but declining a master's or doctorate's because of the aspect of inevitable expiration. Evidence this is already happening: employer's place experience above education now (just look at a career description: it will equate a degree with a certain amount of years experience- saying something like "we'll take a bachelor's degree or equivalent 5 years of industry experience in related field."). It's so gay.
Although I agree with this video in essence, that doesn't stop me from wanting to become an educator, i.e. a "teacher" in a school. The school system is fundamentally flawed, but my primary intent as an educator will be to reach out to students in whatever ways I can, and that includes working both within and outside of the system.
what i learned in school:
how to memorise a bunch of useless information ill never need to get a grade
to deal with idiot students
to deal with idiot teachers
to deal with drama
literally... all i learned but anyways yes i think school should only teach basics of maths and english (which you do before middle school XD) But we could do online course work where you get projects or work experience and are graded through actually trying the work and until you understand over 90 percent of that stage of the work then you can go into the next stage (like for example for doctors learning about the organs and ish first can be called stage one when they are done stage 2 when they complete that they keep on going up the "stages" until they complete it and can start working as a doctor) i think it be alot easier :P but if it was for something like the arts or something then maybe that could be different and be done online but idk XD
Judy Coyle i cant agree more but what you suggested aint gonna happen? want to know why? because they want you dumb im going back to public school to finnaly end this maddness once and for all in my district....
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." ~Mark Twain
Great job summarizing this subject into a 3 minute video! John Taylor Gatto has done a lot of great work on this subject as well. The public school system essentially discourages any critical thought, creativity and inventiveness (you know....the things that make the world a better place).
Our system failed me, that's for sure. I was getting the highest scores on tests in school and I didn't do a single bit of homework. I was held back because of that. I was above average at least. Yet I was still considered a failure because I didn't want to spend all day at school then go home and still be at school. I ended up dropping out at 9th grade and getting a GED. There are probably consequences for me I don't know about yet. Thanks one size fits all system!
It's like he was wording my thoughts on school and then some, props man.
He makes a good point about education not being for a specific age as well as the idea of being with people the same age rather than at the same point in learning ability. Its all based off social expectations now rather than actual learning outcomes and it really is detrimental to society.
If a child is forced to o something that isn't interesting them and they feel they have no use for then they will probably not do well. If they are interested then they can truly pick it up with ease. The problem is forcing them to study things that don't apply to them. People of all ages should be free to get education on what applies to them at that time. When People feel this freedom they get it quite easily.
As a subject of the state and current high-school student, I can completely agree with this video 100%. Schools also fail to enrich a productive individual, for example, there was this kid in my class who would always do the minimum amount of work required (and sometimes even cheat!) and pass, while I tried to learn and would get C+'s and B's. When he did work, he did it not because he wanted to learn or participate, but because he HAD to. This resulted in him failing his final and me passing.
I could not agree more with this video. I was discussing about education with my mother, she's been in the field for almost 25 years and she is tired of the schooling structure. Without creative outlets or the freedom for students to apply their lessons to real life situations, how can they learn and be who they really want to be in life?
this is by far the most simplistic answer to my school issues... thank you.
I have chemistry finals in a month and i dont know why should i even be memorizing lab preparation of chloroform or diethyl ether. Even if i become a scientist or whatever job i do i dont need to know how to make those stuff especially when its written in the book that they dont even use these chemicals anymore people just buy those stuff.
kissaki G homeschool doesnt use stupid chemicals :)
+kissaki G Be grateful that at least schools have reformed a lot in the past 15 years (at least some... I'm in VA). I do very well in science and I take honors...I have no interest in science and I just do it because I can handle the workload. In the past few months, completely forgot almost everything I learned in chem.
Education is defined, the process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, esp. at a school or university. Schooling is defined, education or training received, esp. at school. It should be, education is not the same as learning. Learning is defined, the acquisition of knowledge or skills through experience, study, or by being taught. Learn Liberty used the wrong words on this one.
Sachin Ganpat The definition I gave is similar in both the Oxford Dictionary and the Merriam Webster Dictionary. Those dictionaries are considered the gold standard for definitions in the English language. You could theoretically define these words differently, but then you wouldn't be speaking English anymore. Debates should use the commonly accepted definitions of words for the purpose of clarity. So I stand by my statement, it should be "education is not the same as learning."
Your flaw is that your thinking systematically rather than objectively. It makes sense to divide different subjects into different classes systematically, but the objective is for them to learn. People learn best by focusing on an interest. These interest can incorporate multiple subjects. If someone is interested in trees for example. That incorporates biology, mathematics, history etc. Thus it makes sense to teach them together.
The worst thing is being forced to do subjects that are not your interest or going to have any benefit whatsoever to your life. This to me is the greatest undermining feature to education. Most of the things I know now were learned by my own inquiries. It was as if I had wasted my time.
True - You will never use the formulas you learned in Algebra, Geometry or Physics. But as a person of responsibility, you will constantly be called on to solve complex issues with many unknown variables. Others will count on you to present those ideas, information and processes at a specific time and in a specific format so that they can be applied to other complex issues being resolved by other persons of responsibility.
I learn more from watching a few hours of Murray Rothbard lectures here on youtube than I learned in the entirety of my government high school "education".
I find it interesting that kids, just before they reach schooling age, will ask you so many questions it will drive you insane. Then, after a year of school or two, they have almost no interest in learning anything.
I think the biggest problem is that of communication and understanding. Students expect the teacher to make the material interesting so they can learn it, while the teacher expects the students to be generally interested in learning regardless of how it is presented (probably because the teacher was generally interested in everything as a student). Fixing this communication gap relies heavily on the teacher, because students generally expect the teacher to lead the class anyways. So teachers
I felt that high school is a prison when I was in high school. But I want to come back to high school student if I can do that. I agree that the school as we know it today started as a way to produce obedient and loyal subjects, soldiers, and workers. However, School contribute not only education but also sociality. I think shool is a important place in the world.
Schools are going in the right direction, though. Give them more time. I hate that you need to get such varied courses for an advanced HS diploma (4 science, 4 math, 4 SS courses, 4 English, 1 fine art/career/tech). Seriously? If I'm sure I want to do X, why do I need to take prep for Y, Z, A, and Q?
But they're changing things. My senior year schedule (I'm interested in international relations): US Gov, Human Geography, AP German, Statistics, Geosystems (earth science - need a 4th sci credit)... There's hope.
1) They should start specializing maths earlier than in late HS (after Alg 2, give choice to take stat, (pre)calc, etc.)
2) Make one "science orientation" course where you learn in one or two years all the basics of each discipline like they want right now.
I go to a public high school, and I can tell you all that yes, the structured scheduled, getting herded to different rooms by the sound of a bell, etc. -- it is absolutely a prison.
I honestly don't mind state-funded education, but the system should be at least set up so that the money is attached to the students in the form of tax credits, and have more charter schools to open up competition. That's how schooling can actually improve (and maybe even become an effective education).
I learn more when I get enthused about something on my own time than I ever learned in high school.
It's like you put words to the way I've always felt!
this perspective will change the world for good
Amen to this. Amen Amen Amen.
As the voice of experience, let me explain to you why the structured nature of education is necessary:
DISCIPLINE. Most young people, who learn the fastest, lack the self-discipline necessary to ensure their education, at least in the fundamentals necessary for further self-education.
Yep, I always or very nearly always passed my tests with flying colors, yet nearly failed 2 classes because I refused to do the "work". I would tell all my teachers "If I know the amterial why do I need to do the work? It is a pointless waste of BOTH of our time". Yet because they had too they still gave me bad marks and most of them said they hated doing it.
Well, if you look at a teacher's notes and planning you'll see so much creativity that you won't understand it. Most teachers (not all) do teach in a standard style with a little flair because they find it interesting. They spend at least 80% of their lifes on the job. So it's not their fault they seem boring sometimes.
Lucky for me I had one of the best high schools and had so much creativity with standard style learning that it made it fun. Hands on with books is very very very useful.
This videos are extremely good. Keep them up just like this. The tone, the topics and the quality are just the perfect level.
It depends on the private school. I came out of a public school (i.e a private school) for 1.5 years. I hated it, but I was miles ahead of the kids at state school I went to afterwards.
I agree with you that the teachers in state schools are at least of equal standard - and many wouldn't take a private post on ethical grounds.
But most state schools have about 30 kids per class, where most private schools have around 20 - the difference this makes with one teacher per class is unreal.
This was really good and I totally agree. I hope that the internet and things like free online lessons will help to break us out of the creativity crushing modern school system
As a home schooled individual my employer values my self-driven dedication, focus, and ability to cut through roadblocks to achieve the critical goals that no one else in the company can see from their vantage point. Meanwhile there are plenty of traditionally educated people I hire who fail to demonstrate drive or value despite being capable underneath it all.
I don't think the problem is the method of education. I think the problem is our culture of entitlement.
WOW sooo true that "A classroom constantly tries to bring all it's students down to the level of the lowest member"
my god this is exactly what i thought about school that it was more like a structured prison more than a place that i go to learn new things and things that i WILL need later in life the things that I WILL need to do the job/goals i want in life and that i want to reach in life.Finally I've found someone else who thinks the same :D
I think you're on the right track, but I would take it further and allow the vouchers to be used for extra-curriculars like soccer, piano practice or boy scouts. Charter/ private schools could charge different "voucher" prices and the parents wanting to get the most out of their allotted vouchers would kelp keep the overall cost of basic education down. Some schools would provide the bare minimum, others may charge more for a deluxe style education, but the decision would be in the parents hands
This is cannot be any more correct, and it is why I applaud not only the idealism of breaking away from the rigid school structure, but also the reinforcement of that ideal by providing FREE and flexible courses on matters that affect our world. Thanks to all those who pour effort into Learn Liberty. By the way, this isn't spam from the Learn Liberty guys, I am writing this on my own accord, I just really believe in what these guys stand for.
you are forgetting about the flaw of assuming one size fits all which doesn't happen very often if at all
Discovering the internet was the greatest thing to ever happen to me. I went to public school in a severely run down city. I didn't learn much and I hated every minute of it. The internet is a freaking god send
Learning is what we ALL do, regardless of age, background, etc so forth. We learn and take in information constantly .. this information may, or may not be new to us.. The school system, as it stands fails many.. and in actual fact makes young people actually turn way from opportunities to learn. As stated, it is only by sheer accident that something may be learned.. a lot of children just merely " turn off"
When I was in school I just wished they'd given me the roadmap and let me go at my own pace. Wasn't the best classroom learner, perhaps that's another thing that needs to be addressed.
I'm an IT guy in the Army. Right now, I am studying for the CISSP through an Army class as part of a larger 9 month study of IT related subjects. Considering the contents of this video, it's almost ironic in that I believe that the Army is doing it right. We have a solid week (8 hour days) or two dedicated to each subject we are taught with a capstone bringing all of it together at the end rather than learning each subject an hour or so at a time simultaneously (essentially dividing our focus).
I'm sure there's plenty of reasons, study load, overall difficulty, social maturity. I remember in primary school going with 4 other kids to some science convention for doing well on a test, some kids from other schools had already invented patented products and a couple were in Mensa...
The competition is brutal nowdays lol, reading well wouldn't be enough.
I see what you mean, but, the first step to solving a problem is recognizing that there is one. It's a movement in the right direction, maybe he'll do more videos on the topic.
What if we close all the schools and universities at once? Do you think that would produce negative/destructive results for the future of society? Do you think closing all the institutions for schooling would take us back to the barbaric time? What if it doesn't? We don't know when we haven't tried yet.
I've learned everything in my life by reading books(text books and other books) all by myself and I've practiced everything I learned form those books all by myself. Schools and teachers never taught me anything; they just made my life miserable by their homework, tests, attitudes, prejudice, and pressures. Just looking at the buildings of schools (from elementary schools to high schools or any university building) they all make me feel depressed and nauseated. I don't have any good memories throughout my school years(if you did then fuck you). all the memories are just tense feeling or feeling threatened by teachers and bullies all the time, and everyday was just like being trapped in a hateful prison of completion (competition in educational challenges and social challenges). I think the origin of all social anxieties are schooling experiences that we all go through. If someone never goes to school and only home-schools by himself with the help of his/her parents he'd never develop any social anxiety an would be much more healthier mentally. In case you're wondering how can the country have scientists, doctors, engineers, etc. by home schooling? well, hospitals, factories, and all businesses can teach these knowledge and skills to those who have the right talent, intelligence, and interest. No need to build a separate building in society and name it school.
In schools I only learned wrong and false concepts and beliefs, things like: everybody is equal, or, we all are equally intelligent and talented, or, anything and everything is possible, or, nothing is impossible, or, life is a box of chocolate (especially when you get punched in the stomach in the schoolyard by a chocolaty schoolmate), or, obey your authority figures or you'd be in trouble, or, anyone who doesn't go to school will end up being a worthless junkie, or, don't be individualistic and unique; try to be always a replica of everybody else, or, never complain, or, you have no right to your independent thoughts, or, shut up and only repeat after us, .... etc.
Fuck schools.
So true.
Jay Wolf "I don't have any good memories throughout my school years(if you did then fuck you)."
Wow, just wow... That's a bit presumptuous... I enjoyed alot of moments in my time in public school. I'm one of those people who live in the middle of nowhere, and some of my only friends, you guessed it, were at my school. I may have been a bit of an outcast alot of the time, but I enjoyed it... cause, you know... I actually got to see PEOPLE. Don't just say that "Anybody who has a different view... fuck you." Its an opinion, not a fact.
"If someone never goes to school and only home-schools by himself with the help of his/her parents he'd never develop any social anxiety an would be much more healthier mentally."
So... taking it from my context, living with my grandparents in the middle of nowhere, I would be more socially adept if I had never had a way of going out and interacting with other people? Trust me, its a lonely existence... I home school now, and I enjoy it ALOT LESS... mainly because there's usually no one around.... When my grandparents leave the house, Im all by myself, nobody to talk to, no sign of anybody.... Trust the person who has experienced it... It'll drive you half crazy, and I was already crazy beforehand.....
"No need to build a separate building in society and name it school."
How about this: go to home school instead... Then you can experience it. It is a choice, not a rule, to be public schooled. There are people who would do better in a school environment than a home environment, just like there are people better with home environment than school. Different stroke for different folks.
"everybody is equal"
Every single person has the same chances to make money, become politics, etc... Its all about your drive and determination. If your willing to work hard, your equal to anyone else who works like you do. No one is born with an qual social status, but the law treats them all the same. That's what schools mean when they say "everyone is equal."
"don't be individualistic and unique; try to be always a replica of everybody else or, shut up and only repeat after us"
My school constantly told me the OPPOSITE of what your'e saying they told you.
"never complain"
What GOOD does it do to complain if YOU (not somebody else, YOU) don't do something about it. Don't bitch and whine, DO SOMETHING!! I was not taught that by my school, but by my family. No one wants to listen to your sob story. There will always somebody worse off than you, that has more drive than you... and THEY are getting somewhere in their life by NOT complaining. Take a hint and get up off your arse.
"Fuck schools."
And while we're at it, fuck yourself.
I think I'm done ranting now.
CrackedLogic Productions I don't think I "whined" about my life or past; I just introduced to people another way of looking at "education", a new perception, so they don't live in this dead end that the only path to learn things is going to school. I didn't even specifically promoted home schooling, but I thought elementary education like reading, writing, and arithmetic can be learned at home because it's more relaxing to the shaping minds of children, instead of being bullied and pressured to learn these essentials and ending up hating them, which would cause them to hate education. Once a child become old enough he/she would have stronger ability to enter society and deal with the essential harshness of living and working among people. I never said they should always stay home. On the contrary I believe as soon as they're old enough they should leave.
But it is YOU who did exactly what you accused me of, imposing your life experiences on others. You wanted to complain to your grandparents you ranted on me by projecting yourself on me. Not all home schooling experiences would be like yours. But if you really love to be out in society and experience the wonderful human beings out there, go ahead. what are you waiting for? you fear to go outside and blame it on me for introducing different alternative to education? you're just an example of a typical asshole. your words have no basis therefore bullshit.
Jay Wolf Thank you, Sounds familiar. I thought it was just me and my son's that felt this way. My oldest son was bullied by the vice principle, intentionally. My son's are adults now and living, functioning well, far away from corrupt Washington state. Basic math and reading is all that is essential up to advanced education. They love to read, we read to them as kids. Teaching them to question things that are wrong, or end up in a rail car to a gas chamber. Ring a bell and watch the rats run to the next maze. My son that was bullied? He works in the medical field, he will never returned to high school reunions, the high school I also attended and never returned to. They see friends from school, but refuse to visit the state institution. He was prompted to return after the shooting there at MPHS, for a candle light vigil. He wasn't interested in the foolishness. When I told my younger son of the shooting, he said he was surprised it took this long to happen. Running schools like prisons with "lock downs", "searches". None of these prison operations/actions prevented the tragic event. The irony was the freshman class king that did the shooting and was a tribal person, a protected ethnicity. Recently my property taxes went up 20% because the courts ruled non-tribal/tribal business owners on tribal land are exempt from taxes paid to the county schools. Translates into a long division problem of everyone else paying more taxes for the education of the tribes murderous children. The Tulalip tribes are absent in paying their fair share. I enjoy learning/education, but not indoctrination into a system that is bloated and corrupt. Teachers in Washington are having one day strikes for wages and benefits, they seem blind to everyone else taking cuts in wages and losing defined pensions. The teachers union WEA places themselves far above the taxpayers and students. My son's were fortunate to have a couple of good teachers, but most pushed the liberal state agenda.
CrackedLogic Productions i homeschool but ya know what i dont care about having friends IM FINE idk why you need friends i never really had any (true) friends ive been fine YES i was bullied but homeschooling has made me wiser and its so much better i cant understand why you feelbored with no humans around
3/? Because I chose to join the Navy out of high school and then go to college after the Navy, I'm in an odd circumstance where I have been going to various schools since I was 5 and I'm now 30 years old. The Navy is all about education. After 1 1/2 years of tech schools I went to the fleet and about every 6 months did one course or another furthering my technical and leadership training. I would agree a little booster education is a good thing. However going to college so old hasn't been easy.
Fantastic video. I had a professor for couple courses in undergrad and grad school who had a very similar outlook and I'd felt like I learned more from him than I had in pretty all of my formal education up to that point, rote memorization aside. Ever since then, through the rest of grad school and especially with the internet and by surrounding myself with others who similarly value education, and it went from being a chore to being a pleasure to learn. I'd love more videos on this topic.
6/7 I would love to hear radical new ideas on education. Some of the other stuff like hierarchical schools, or "rigid schedules" just seem to be basic human functions, not exclusive to school. I suppose you could just have a random person talk for a random number of hours on whatever comes to their head but that's not in the realm of "productive" if you want that, listen to a podcast.
true! me too.i have been learning economic, biology, nutrition, fitness, some philosophy and politics from internet too, something i was completely ignorant of in 12 years of high school.
What about their changes through life? Will they like the same subject from childhood when they are an adult? Should we immerse our students in a variety of subjects? How do we know they will even try to expand their universe?
If you're stuck in the rudimentary classes, it will definitely feel this way. But in the higher tier classes it's a different story.
I doubt there is a better system for the US that can be universally implemented.
Universal implementation is not the goal. "Centralized anything" doesn't work. What we need is no government involvement and more competition in the schooling market to see what systems work best and then other systems can continue to improve upon those systems. Instead, with this system we are always going to have to expect super slow change if we get any real change at all.
5/ I think the law of averages would generally produce classrooms of students about the same age. I get the idea that if someone has trouble they might need to go to a special school, or if one person excels in one subject they can be moved forward in that subject but perhaps need remedial education in another subject. Basically that might be like making elementary school like high school, seniors and freshman may be in the same class, but overall the average will be about the same age.
Agreed that the current school system is not the best educational system for everyone. However, it does work well for many. It would be interesting to hear what alternatives you suggest.
Books are written in plain English, a language we all understand. If you don't get it just decrease the difficulty of the material or increase your effort.
Now with the internet you can get pretty much anything that previously required a library.
I'd love to get away from the idea that our current system of schooling is the only way to educate people, but I don't know of any promising alternatives...
Well that depends on an area's policies for school transfers. But as I said, there is a rather huge way around that incentive; simply avoid admitting bad students, and education has the appearance of improving when it actually hasn't. Still the same number of good and bad students, the bad students just aren't at your school. I didn't say private schools have no incentive to improve education, it's just not that much different than public school incentives.
Parents must teach their children things that they may not learn in school. If they are not happy with free public schooling, then they should get the resources to homeschool them or enter them into a private school that fits their criteria. Use the Internet as a source of information for your children. Not everyone can pay for schooling, and it's awesome that we even have a free education system in the US.
I remember one of my earliest memories about school was that it was a prison and the adults always said it was a school and it was good for me, but I knew..... that I was in a cage I was not allowed to escape
To replace college, I think we should just have people go to proctored exams and graded papers. You do the classwork and learn the material in whatever way you choose and you are said to have passed a class. Pass enough classes and you have a degree. Use the GRE general and subject tests to distinguish between the quality of different people's self education. This could be done very cheaply.
My sister is a public high school teacher. Unprompted, she regularly rants about many of the "schooling" problems mentioned in this video. The solution, per usual, is separation of education and state, preferably via abolition of the state.
I have a friend who is a professional saxophone player. He understands grades. It is graded by the club owner who decides whether or not to hire his band. He is graded by the fellow members of his band . And most importantly he is graded by his audience as I order another Jack and Coke, and decide if I want to come see him again. Because he understands grades, on a very consistent basis this artist puts in the effort at home that he needs to produce Goldstar results on stage. Just like school.
Great video, except the question about learning at any stage might not be so good. The human mind is most fertile for education in its first 14-18 years, then diminishing returns happen. Basic skills like reading, speaking, numeracy etc. are best learned early on
i think all he meant is that we should be continually learning and education shouldn't be limited to one bracket of time in a persons life. my only issue is if your going to dismiss a system then you need to provide an alternative
brickclimber That's a fair interpretation, I think. I've heard some really interesting ideas on how the internet might change our approaches to education. I'm considering home-schooling my daughter (to be born in March!) because of the incredible learning tool the internet can be.
Now here is a good one, very nicely done, thought provoking and incredibly true. I hope I am coming across better videos here.
I can understand what he's saying, but still believe the heavily time structure schooling is better. Our system was tailored to being at certain places at a certain time, which is a skill far more important that most other things you could learn in school.
I know a lot of "public schools" have varying curriculum but I'll tell you about all the things that my schools never taught me about:
1) How to start a business.
2) How to pay taxes.
3) How to be self-employed.
4) The current rules and regulations of law.
5) And drum roll..... How to make money.
What a "brilliant" education I had. Pffth!!!
Education can happen anywhere, at any time, and at any age.
Like right now.
I agree, although my university has class times that are scheduled, it is more guided by the wants of the student. This seems to be much more about k-12 schools.
You're the solution, with the truth you have now been given the tools for liberation.
One of the few videos that I agree with Learn Liberty. It's similar to Sir Ken Robinson's TED video How Schools Kill Creativity.
Some I may be able to use but the majority will be forgotten. I see the skill people use for work, little of my school education can be compared XD
You have to move to another part of the district or go to private school to go to another.
Private schools do have incentive to improve education. If their product (educated children) becomes less successful than other schools' products, their reputation suffers and they make less money.
thank you for speaking the truth, mr. davies. i hope this video goes viral.
Correct. But no solutions were offered in this video.
That map made me cry a bit
Well, what you say about parents are debatable. I think it's more that parents are too busy working and just staying alive to be able to think about these things. I heard that 50 years ago, a single parent can support a family of four easily. I hear that parents today struggle even with both parents working maybe 2 jobs. That's ridiculous and to me, having to struggle with both parents working with 2 jobs is ridiculously unfair.
School is, by definition, forced indoctrination. Hell, you can probably call it slavery if you get a lot of homework. I remember a time when I was depressed, and I loathed waking up everyday to go to school. Also, it's a proven fact that almost 90% of what we learn in school is forgotten by the time we are finished. Knowledge that can't be applied to your life is useless. Even though I skipped mountains of homework and hundreds of days of school, I was able to ace nearly every test, and my reading level was way higher than normal.
Ah, feels good to get that off my chest..
Many people see school as a daycare
1:01 - 1:08 Amen
The only two classes that our worthwhile for me in high school are TV production and Criminal Justice. I'm lucky that my high school offers them.
I saw school as a tool. A tool that I could use to further my own goals.
7/7 Only suggestion now would be to not have such rigid schooling requirements for graduation. I think in school's efforts to cram a certain amount of info, and teaching to pass certain tests, "education" is lost. Ultimately people forget most of the stuff they "learn" in high school, why not focus on people's critical skills/weaknesses. Instead of worrying about everyone being on a flat plane, give the gifted a chance to soar, and the struggling a chance to work on their weakest points.
2/? Another thing to consider in why education is best for the very young is empirical studies on how the human brain develops. We learn a lot more a lot faster the younger we are. You want a bi or trilingual kid, start them at age 5, not 15, or 20. Another purely logical reason for education in youth is that once an adult people are expected to be productive, biology and society is designed for this. No other period in life is education more logical than youth.
Not all public schools are the same, if one sucks you can go to another. My high school had the IB program which was as good as any education I could've gotten, though not all schools have that. I don't think there's a drastic difference in the quality of public or private in principle, it's mostly based on the funding each one gets, and the teachers they can manage to attract. Private schools also don't have much of an incentive to improve education; they can just get rid of the bad students.
I am still a student and have a half-sibling who is still in elementary school. Cursive is still taught, calculators are not mandatory, history is still taught with no Elmo involved, and learning another language at my high school was highly encouraged (Spanish, Mandarin, and French were offered with a couple more available through extracurricular options I believe) .
I am not a leftist nor someone who considers himself a "righty" either but I don't like hearing plain lies and conspiracies.
I wish he would have offered a solution to the problem... What would be the best way to structure an Education program?
what they mean by "school is the only way" is that it's impossible to none to even be relevant in this world without education. I mean a bachelors degree is nothing nowadays you even have to go to graduate school, so as unfortunate as it is, the world is already set up for us young people and I will go to university and try to get the highest degree of education, only I will always be skeptical and never suck up to big government
I feel that the school system is messed up. In elementary school your thought all the wrong things, All the stuff i was thought in elementary school had to be 'untought' (not a word i know) in middle school. I didn't actually start learning until highschool but by then the foreign exchange students were years ahead of me. I suggest that instead of teaching kids the wrong things in elementary school we teach them right and actually grade them for more than just trying.
I guess you can say he was hinting at the prospects that education doesn't necessarily need a traditional or even tangible structure. Sure some people perform well in a conformist highly structured while others do not. I would suspect that he would advocate for a competitive market in education would lay the framework for multiple schools systems to compete against each other. The top down militarist style doesn't work and a decentralized, voluntary, competitive style could be better.
I have a feeling that you are on the right track by exploring what is presented here. Keep an open mind and learn about what the Classical Liberalism is all about. I can see that, at this time, you may disagree with some points but thats ok and even healthy. Personally, over the years, I know that I went from being social-liberal than a conservative and now see my self more aligned with principles of classical libertarianism. Personal ideologies evolves over time just like anything else in life.
You mean the constant shipping form one set of subject matter to another without acquitted time to actually let what you just went over in the last class sink in? Interesting. Never even thought of that. But it does explain the learned behavior of inability to focus. As when you learn something you are instantly pushed to drop what you were doing and work on something else continuously.