Linear A - Which Language did the Minoans speak?
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Minoan civilization, besides being the first in Europe, is well-known and admired for its architecture, art, trade and overall impact it had on the subsequent cultures in Greece. In this episode, we talk about the greatest mystery of the Minoans - their language and the still undeciphered Linear A script.
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I love the idea that influential, well educated egyptians knew Minoan Linear A as part of some sort of base curriculum to be able to participate in commerce and diplomacy.
As far as modern interpretations go, the scribes were a very important professional group in the Bronze Age world, able to write and speak in multiple languages, while the elites mostly were not. There are personal notes from scribe to scribe in official correspondence between rulers that are not to be read to the officials. They were the true citizens of the world in those times.
With the Bronze Age Collapse the scribes, very specialised and paid by the state, disappeared as an international community. Without them, the ability to read many languages had been lost almost in the blink of an eye (archaeologically speaking). That elites used such professional translators and didn't really have to use foreign languages was probably the reason why the loss of so many scripts and some corresponding tongues was possible.
I have always wondered if the Minoan language could have been a remnant of the Natufian or Neolithic farmers who expanded from the Levant and Anatolia into Europe. No matter what it is fascinating. The Minoans are among the few world cultures about which people will consume so much literature and watch so many documentaries who all basically say “I don’t know” over and over again. 😂
True! 😀
Your theory is very probable, in fact I don't know why it is not mentioned in the video, but they were never isolated, the farmers of Anatolia were the ancestors of the Minoans expanding from Asia Minor (Western Anatolia) towards the Balkans via the Aegean Islands, including Crete (we have genetic evidence of this).
The problem is that we do not have another recorded language of this ancestral population of Anatolia to be able to compare it 😢
Except that the ANF are the ones who expanded the Proto-Indo-European language as the less conventional theories say (conventional theory: WSH expanded the PIE language), then everything would be more complicated since it could be an Indo-European language too.
There is a beautiful documentary about deciphering Linear A on "Study of antiquity and the middle age". An Hungarian professor is trying to link it to Ugro Finnic languages and its link with Anatolic alphabets of which we have a rough translation. He also is also tested its translation system on a Linear A inscribed ring. It would make sense since the Romanian Black Sea coast was centre of one of the most advanced prehistoric civilization, as this culture could have expanded before the Indo Europeans took over the Balkans and we really have no idea where the UF languages come from, having intermixed with the IE ones.
The first era of Crete was Anatolic, then it was linked to the balkans and it ended being greek after the explosion of Santorini in about 1503BC.
That should be Vasconic. I have no reason to believe that Minoan or Eteocretan was Vasconic, it may have been some sort of Pelasgo-Tyrsenian but hard to tell.
One thing I've thought odd is that for the Indus Valley script we don't have a clue of any numbers yet most of what we have seems to be shipping labels.
We need
12 dozen eggs
9 barrels of wheat
7 bushels of hgherhanermim.
Nobody knows what hgherhanermim is.
"It's OK, don't keep a copy, everything is stored in the vast archive on Thera. Wait, did you hear something?"
No matter the language the are ancestors of us Greeks ❤
Evan's enthusiasm and heavy handed re-imagining of Minoan culture likely set back our understanding of these people by decades. Hopefully we'll eventually be able to sort things about these fascinating people out.
The twat rebuilt the columns of Knossos upside down,and that is how they have remained,
At some point we will have a better idea as more material is discovered in archeological digs.
Holy cow to think that the time from the classical to the middle minoan was the same as our time to the Byzantine/Justinian time
If only someone would unearth an artifact like the Rosetta stone with the Cretan Heiroglyphs, and Linear A inscribed with direct translations in a langauage we can read (Ancient Egyptian, Hittite or Akkadian cuneiform or some such) and then the code can be cracked..
We know how linear A reads approximately because linear B is essentially the same script and is Greek. That's sorta a Rosetta stone but problem is not a 1:1 translation and also tablets seem to be essentially focused on accountancy of palace goods, little else.
@@LuisAldamiz Linear B TO-SO (tosos, meaning total) corresponds to KU-RO / KU-LO in A. Cyrus Gordon noted, correctly I think, that KU-LO looks like Semitic kull, "all of it".
Unfortunately for Gordon's thesis: this is the sort of thing that becomes loanwords. English has its word "total" from Latin, not Germannic.
@@zimriel - How is it in Etruscan? I would really look for the Etruscan or rather Tyrsenian connection but unsure. Would it be Semitic, we should expect more direct cultural connections with the Levant, the main area of Semitic expansion that could be connected. No genetics or archaeology suggests that, rather with the Balcans and Asia Minor, where Semitic was not a thing.
Rosetta stone has been decoded for a while
@@zimrielSorry, you wrote "Linear B ... corresponds to ... in B". Have i missed something?
Greek!
Pre-Indoeuropean /pre Greek to be precise....
I think they purposefully wrote down semi-significant looking jibberish just too fool everyone like 3000 years later.
Epic Prank.
THIS
yeah but 3.000 years before that prankster , other pranklsters were leaving the dispilio tablet in a lake so to proove the author wrongabout first civilasation / written language ruclips.net/video/L0qdAQm_UhU/видео.html
BRONZE AGE GREEK
ευχαριστώ
I cannot describe how much I love this channel. Another gem of a video!
Maybe someday we will find more Linear A texts, alongside a language we already know and then decipher it Rosetta Stone style
Great video! Let's wish some Rosetta stone equivalent is found for minoan!
The disk of Phaestos deserves to be mentioned here.
Very interesting!
Out of all phonetic signs, how many of them overlap in Linear A and Linear B?
Most
Greek Greek Greek no Mystery 🇬🇷
Beloved Greece with her immense history and culture!!! even if there are still barbarians who want to take over... studies and reading help
I have always wondered what the Minoan language was.......maybe soon we will know 🤞
I read somewhere that they have a word for pregnant women, Kurwa. Althought this is not much, but the central european region is still a great user of this word, especially the Poles....
the term "Minoan" is an artificial term of archeology from Greek mythology.
.The language is Greek
linear writing was geographically found only in the Greek area
Great video! Bravo! I would like to see links to literature so that viewers can read them too. Another thing about the Minoan language can be said that all Greek words ending in -inth probably come from Minoan: Τίρυνθα - Tiryns, Κόρινθος - Corinth, λαβύρινθος - Labyrinth
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
Proto Serbian 😂😂😂. Slavic language. the allies of Troy were Pauonians, Phrygian Illyria and Thrace, this is what Homer says. Not the Macedonians. Also the Ellines are from the city of Ellas in Thessaly and their King is Achilles (Homer's Iliad). Something you forgot to mention.Later Ellines was used instead of Pelasgian. Aristotle wrote "She who was Pelasgians, whom we called Greeks and now Ellines"❤
@@user-ox5db9pz1lhope you do not have a job in the educational system of whatever country🍭👀
@@nikolaoskonstantas2762 This all is not the point. Point is wild Greeks came from Afrika took Pelasgian language and culture and mixed with Pelasgian people. Look below if you can see some similarities between proto Serbian and on the right side old Greek. Next below you can see something about Vucedol first culture 11500 BC and from there spreading slowly all over the Balkan. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans and Anatolia: In Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia, Scythia, Hittite and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
Here some comparason Proto Serbian (Proto Slavic) and Greek.
(Proto Serbian-Slavic)………………….....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)……………….…............(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)………........................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)…………………….............….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…....(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)…………......(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)…………………........….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)………....……(Teke wudas proti wudei)
The Minoans also lived in the cyclades there are even archeological sites in Thera island (Santorini) so it might be just another writing system of Greek
I think linear B is consider as an ancestor of Greek, but we dont know if thats the case for Linear A as well. Probably not.
Its very possible it was the last eastern hunter gather lang left not replaced before writing
Thanks!
Thank you very much. Appreciate it!
There aren't enough Minoan Linear A inscriptions to enable translation. Even then, they wouldn't tell us much more than Linear B has about Mycenaeans, except that they valued goods and furniture more highly than their captive slaves.
there aren't any real ancient tablets, there are plenty FAKE CLAY TABLETS BY ARTHOUR EVANS AND PLENTY PROPAGANDA BY JEWISH -BRITISH FAKE ARCHAEOLOGISTS AS WELL AS U.S.
Minoan is one of proto-Greek cultures and Linear A an undeciphered predecessor of Linear B. Modern genetic testing has determined that Minoan DNA is dominant in modern day Greeks living in Crete. As soon as more Linear A inscriptions are unearthed, the language will be deciphered like Linear B.
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
"Proto Serbian" 😂
Look around Ukraine for it
@@kbedini5738 Ok. Does this sound serbian to you?
ΔΑ ΙΔΗΣ Ω ΤΑ(Ϋ) Κ' Ω ΠΑΝΑΛΚΗΣ! K' ΥΠ' ΑΔΟΥ, ΚΕΙ Δ' ΑΣΩ ΑΕΙΝΑH ΗΤEIΣI !
It's an inscription in linear A. It's the clay cup in Heraklion museum with exhibit no. Π 2630.
The inscription is on wikipedia too, under the title linear A.
I have nothing against serbes of course, but truth should be told.
Language is like lots of trees with common roots from one tree, that have undergone mutations. Nuclear mutations. To thé extent that each has developed independently from others. In any case it's not just the language one should examine to find common roots between nations; it's mainly culture. Pottery of similar kind can be found everywhere, due to trade and export of goods, which, as you may know, was stored in clay pithoi (vases, pots etc), so the art cannot stand alone as an argument of influence upon other nations, as many cretan - for example- artifacts may be found even in China.
@@kbedini5738I can give you some proof. Proto Serbian is actually Proto-Indo-European language. Lets try comparison to Greek. I could give you proof with other languages as well: English, Sanskrit and so on.............
(Proto Serbian)…………………....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)………………….(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)……….................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)…………………….….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…...(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)…………..(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)…………………….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)……………(Teke wudas proti wudei)
@@user-ox5db9pz1l
Co pak pecete? What does this mean? It is not greek. Koinaomes praxin? Neither modern greek, nor ancient greek. Look. Go get a hot bath. Then a cold one. If you don't feel better after that, please don't write back, cause it Wil be me, the one who will be needing a hot bath. Just to justify the blood on my face, as I'm furious with those who claim knowing sanskritic, akkadic and greek without being linguists and multiglotts. Even those are not specialists. Even those have made huge mistakes cause it's about languages which they don't know otherwise, but from books. Greek verbs' tenses, persons, names' cases, declensions, dialects etc, all this has confused them. Wasn't the term pelasghic or etruskik language faulsly attributed to the lemnian language, while it was just turks honoring a dead companion and member of their fraternity and wrote down their last words on the lemnos stele?
But who an I to degrade the omniscients?
I find the question strange. Which language did the Minoans speak ? Surely they spoke Minoan !!!
or maybe Minoic?
@@kleinweichkleinweich You'll have to explain that. I only understand computer languages.
@@rchas1023 install the Thera package, it will give you a blast
But in Which langauge branch was the Minoan? I think its should be West uralic, like the Etruscean and Hatti.
@@xerxen100 The latter two placements are extremely controversial.
Great channel and it's endorsed by Cy. What a shame I didn't find it sooner.
"What language did the MINIONS speak?"
The Atlantis myth is more than likely based on the Minoan civilization. Plato heard about an advanced civilization that suffered a cataclysmic event during the eruption of Thera on Santorini and their society went downhill from there.
Or it was based on one of the other, more recent lost coastal cities of the region. Or Plato made it up from scratch, to make a point.
No, it was probably just made up by Plato. There is zero evidence that a single soul in the entire Mediterranean world had ever heard of Atlantis before Plato wrote a fable about it to illustrate a political and social point he was trying to get across. This is quite unlike, say, the Iliad where we have documentation of multiple parallel strands of legend going back into the Greek Dark Age.
This is a widely-believed misconception. Both Plato and the Egyptians were well aware of the Minoan civilization, as well as its location. The Lost Island is clearly placed in the Atlantic Ocean by Plato (and therefore by the original Egyptian source). In southern Spain the Tartessian culture was very powerful during the first millennium BC and in close contact with the Phoenicians, and therefore also with the Egyptians. They are likely the original source of the Atlantis story. The Tartessians, according to Himilco of Carthage, were excellent seafarers, and had made extensive voyages throughout the North Atlantic. Certain ancient monuments on the Azores were likely constructed by Tartessian voyagers. They almost certainly had a legend of a Lost Island in the ocean, as did every people on the Atlantic seaboard of Europe and Africa, from Ireland down to Morocco. The Guanches, the original Berber-speaking inhabitants of the Canary Islands, had a similar story. All the evidence points to the volcanic Azores region as the original location of the Lost Island (its dimensions, given in the Critias of Plato, portray it as a little larger than Iceland). Many oceanic studies have confirmed the existence of a substantial island in the Azores region in the geologically recent past. The Columbia University expedition of 1948, for example, found sunken beaches and shorelines all around the Azores, as well as evidence of recent massive volcanic activity. The expedition's leader was Professor Maurice Ewing. Look him up.
@@thevelikovskian6119 What “original Egyptian sources”? People went looking for that Egyptian record of Atlantis in classical times, and didn’t find it. Plato likely made the whole thing up.
Every culture with a sea-coast seems to have a “lost island” legend or two. Many of them probably originated in some genuine sea level change or tsunami. Plato may have been vaguely inspired by one of those, but it’s hardly a logical necessity. But heaven forbid that the father of western philosophy may have had an original thought, I guess.
@@PhilMasters Diodorus Siculus talks about the Atlantians as if they still exist, and live on 'the shore of the Ocean' (the Atlantic ocean) in Libya (Africa), and Herodotus also refers to the Atlantes who lived in Northwest Africa near the Atlas mountains.
Ask the Greeks please before decide to baptized the language as a "foreign" language. It's Greek alright.
Even today the Cretans speak with a special idiom but we, from main land (and even though we have our own idioms) ,still can communicate, it's all Greek,Cypriotic included 10:01 🇬🇷✌️😎
The greeks exterminated the original Minoans... I think this is enough reason to think that they were rally not Hellenic peoples. Beside that, they were not gays.
@@xerxen100
Did they, really you know that for a fact, I don’t think so
@@xerxen100 they didn't! Minoans were 100% Greeks ! I'm cretan i did ancestry test I'm Greek stop lying
@@ntenimarkorareincarnation4182 Greeks completly exterminated the Minoans... You have nothing to do with them...
@@xerxen100 you are delusional! Minoans were Greeks and obviously they accepted homosexuality they had this culture too! Minoans were great sailors and created colonies in spain and south france! Who exterminated them you m0ron? None ever had a war such big with them except Dorians but Dorians aren't Greeks like Thracians they are the only two Hellenized tribes that came from north !!! Minoans were Greeks and the ancestors of Mycenaeans I studied history i know better!
We do understand a few words, kuro meant total and maru meant wool.
I think there is some connection with the language of the Lycians.
One of the problems in our efforts to decipher Linear A is that we don't have as many texts as we have of Linear B and there is no "Rosetta stone" to this day
You mean Lydians?
what script did the Lycians use?
the word kuro and combinations of the word also exist in Greek
Language and script are 2 different things .
This confuses a lot of people.
@@free_gold4467 on the contrary .
Script evolution of the Greek language from Linear to the Attic alphabet of the Classical Era .
@@destihado No, sorry, you've completely lost me with that comment, maybe it's just badly worded but it makes no sense at all to me.
@@free_gold4467 Do not worry , i am really sorry you dont understand , but i cant offer you any more help, except from suggesting that you read the actuall bibliography and references .
I've seen online some words claiming to be minoan is that true? or just a guess
Even scholars of ancient history have fallen prey to emotionalism & imagination (Romanticism). We should be very careful to stear completely clear from such human tendencies when we're seeking the complete truth. Reality is always best for all of humanity.
is the mineoan langugage related of lemnian language or pelagasians?
Lemnian is pelasgian. Minoan is Different
could minoan have been similar to the cycladies culture
I think that’s very likely
Yes but cycladites could have been influenced from the minoans
@cal2127
They were the same culture cause they were one island, one body of land that was destroyed
When Mount Atlas, (Santorini)blew its top and destroyed the island causing the creation of the Cyclades
Santorini in cyclades and minoans were there. Akritori
@@janeslater8004
Yes Akrotiri was there as were many other cities that got destroyed
If we ever do progress our understanding of Linear A, it is likely to come from the decipherment of the Hittite tablets, who had a practice of recording songs and poems of their neighbours.
6:50 That sounds awfully convenient isn't it
Perhaps comparative DNA studies could give clues to the Minoan Linear A script
Linear A. Not what I would have called it but who are we to judge an ancient people’s sense of taste.
I think it’s possible it’s an isolate,and I wouldn’t be surprised if it someday proven to be one. I think it’ll be deciphered one day, after all Sumerian (probably the most famous isolate) was
I definitely think it's an Anatolian isolate. All the domesticates that came to crete during the neolithic come from anatolia and the early minoans have little to no steppe component and are similar to neolithic farmers. Etruscan has a high steppe component but a language unrelated to Indo European languages so perhaps they spoke something similar but ultimately i think Anatolia holds the key to the Minoan language
Bravo
They were not identical to neolithic farmers. They had some chalcolithic/early bronze age anatolian genes as well. Migratory events didn't stop in neolithic period.
Anatolian connections are still the most likely to occur. Are we any closer to deciphering Luwian?
when you say anatolia what do you mean? ANATOLIA "East" is a Greek word meaning the place where the sun rises.
Where are their writings? How do we know their grammar and syntax? all linguistic hypothetical models are
@@panagiotis7946 we have remnants of isolates and other languages native to Anatolia. Hurrian is an example of an isolate but there are a lot more. I just think it's very likely Minoans would have some type of correspondence/associated with early neolithic farmers leaving Anatolia since their first domesticates and tech / cultural technology closely mirrors Anatolian early neolithic farmers.
I was not aware that any of the Tyrsenian (Tyrrhenian) languages has been deciphered... Etruscan maybe (extremely) partially but without any conclusive results.
As to whether the Minoan was related to Greek, I think the chances of that are null. Otherwise, it would have been deciphered by now. Particularly with the existing, supposedly, intermediary linear B of the Mycenaeans.
This is a mystery unless the equivalent of Egyptian or Kassites diplomatic dispatches were discovered giving new insights about the culture of the Minoans. I would not be surprised that Knossos and a few other sites had such departments in their scribal rooms. About the nature of the Minoan language, it is likely that it contained elements of Anatolian languages, but it was commercial language like English or French of the last three hundred years and so included elements of Ancient Greek, other Indo-European languages, and lost languages like that of the Kydones and Pelagians. The Eteo-Cretan language would be better if a version of the Epic Poem associated with Cretan Kings. Eteo-Cretans from the Eastern end of Crete probably had their version on manuscripts of the Iliad. Did they write down their mythology withs song in honor of Hera and Zeus since those divinitiess had connections with Crete? Where should we look for those fragments? In Pompei, Caesar's father-in-law purchased Marcus Antonius' library (a distant cousin of the Roman general, Mark Anthony, and the Roman conqueror of Crete) and had a vast libary in his villa there. Apollodorus, the librarian of the Library of Alexandria, had a great interest in Cretan poetry. Researching both may provide clues about the Eteo-Cretan language and thus the Minoans?
I haven't seen much similarity between Minoan/Eteocretan and Eteocypriot scripts and in fact I suspect that Eteocypriot script is partly at the origin of Iberian/Tartessian script, which (arguably) may be as old as the Copper Age (although most texts are Iron Age some intriguing instances of writing are much older).
Can you clarify: do you mean that Eteocypriot is derived from Iberian or is it the other way around?
@@Wakanda.Knuckles - The other way around, and I'm talking about the script and not the language. Iberian is some cousin of Basque, less clear is the matter with Tartessian, which is obscure.
@@Wakanda.Knuckles Its the other way around. Minoans Influenced Tartessian Script probably. But there is Archeological evidence .In the Papar : Sardinian bronze figurines in their Mediterranean setting by Ralph Araque, Image 18. Fig. 11: Iberian stelae from Cerro Muriano 1 (a); Almadèn de la Plata 2 (b); Ecija 5/Berraco (c); Capilla I (d). Not to scale. Show evidence of Horned Warriors present in Iberia. Possible Nuraghe landing into Lower spain. But Remember Nuraghe werent one singular tribe. They had different tribes. Including tribes catagorized into the Ilienses. Who are associated with Greek mythology and are known to have been trading with Minoans. So it is likelythey were minoans among the Nurage.
It's strange how when we translate these ancient uncovered texts, we're so dependent on Rosetta Stone type discoveries that hand us the answer on a silver platter.
maybe linear a is one writing system of Greek language with
shortcuts and root of Greek word and that is difference of Minoan with Mycenaean writing system exist one research is in Greek of 2023 and they use sigla research. in that research sillabogram who found ventris in linear a is shortcuts of word example ki=οι(κί)α or ra is shortcuts of word era= Ra= ie(ra), e(ra), a(ra)…άλας, ra, ρίζες: ιερά, άλας όπου ρ το λ γραμμική β ήρα έ(λα)ια άλας era….σ(ελά)να ρ σε λ γραμμική β. arana=αρνιά (arkh2)
or syllabogram ro= is shortcuts Ro, ru = a(ro)te, e(ro), ta(ro), a(rou)ra,….ρίζες: αγρόται , ιερό, τάυρος, άρουρα , ήρα
δεν λεμε πια ΑΡ , αλλα λεμε ΑΡΟΤΡΟ , δεν λεμε πια ΟΥΡ τον αερα , αλλα λεμε ΟΥΡΙΟΣ ΑΝΕΜΟΣ , δεν λεμε πια αρανα αλλα λεμε αρναδα ( το θυληκο αρνι ) και δεν ξερω αν οι ξενοι θελουν να μαθουν την αληθεια η απλα θελουν να μας αφαιρεσουν αξια ?? νομιζω οι περισσοτεροι θελουν το δευτερο . Νομιζω για ολα φταινε οι Ελληνες με μικρο το Ε , και καλα ακαδημαϊκοι που δεν ενδιαφερονται , και αφηνουν τους ξενους να παιζουν μπαλα στο δικο μας γηπεδο , ασε που πολλες φορες βγαζουν και χειροτερα συμπερασματα απο τους ξενους , ετσι για να γινουν αρεστοι οι ευρωλιγουριδες . Πολεμα αδερφε , καλα το πας !!!!!!!🏛🏛🏛
The Minoans are Thracians, not Greeks.
The Minoans are Thracians, not Greeks.
@@DimitarDimitrov-bk4xm JUST FOR LAUGHS , dimitri ov We name you Δημητρη
Minoans maybe have writing system with shortcuts and that writing system is for greek language exist research of 2023 in that research we see ταυροκαθάψια and inscription with form who we read inscription like ταυροκαθάψια που αγρότες αίρονται εις ταύρους διαβάζουμε αυτό ακριβώς. Έχω βάλει την Έρευνα εγώ νομίζω πως η γραμμική α είναι είδος γραφής με συντομευσεις, μέρος των λέξεων είναι ένα πολυριζικο σύστημα γραφής ακροφωνικό το οποιοδ διαφέρει σε αυτό ακριβώς από την γραμμική β πως η β όταν ενώνεις τα συλλαβογραμματα σχηματίζονται ολόκληρες λέξεις άνω στην α είναι συντομευσεις, πολλές φορές η ρίζα είναι περισσότερες από μία λέξη πχ ero ... Γραμμική β Ηρώ αλλά και ιερό arote ... Αγροται, ταρό... ταύρο και και η γραμμική α είναι ένα σύστημα γραφής της ελληνικής ακροφωνικό.
All Asians here try to connect Minoan roots with them bc of complex issues
I guess yDNA haplogroups J2/G2a makes them connected to West Asians more than ever.
@@anthropos_94What halo groups show and till how many years back? No more than 200 years back and what West Asia was? So you mean Mongol Turks are Europeans for example oryou refer to janissaries?
@@geosam011 be more clear and I’ll answer you.
@@anthropos_94 What means more. clear? Answer the question I posed before bc you mix halo groups with DNAs
@@anthropos_94 Compare your head shape with TurkiMongol ones and you ll get DNA results....
It was obvious from the decipherment of M.B that the script used was not developed for Greek. So it must have been adapted from a script developed for an earlier, unrelated language. Given that we knew that M A preceded M B, there would be no point in even trying M B reading on M A. Trying to guess the sounds originally represented by a sign system from the sound system it was later straitjacketed into is a fool's errand.
how is this done?
Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world
Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space
the video is wrong about the dates
we have the Linear B since 1700 BC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafkania_pebble
@@panagiotis7946 So no other language family was ever spoken anywhere in today's Greece at any time since the start of times? Now that is a big idea!
@@watching7650 naturally and in accordance with the archaeological findings.
Besides, it is a very small country in area
@@watching7650 in all the Mycenaean centers Pylos, Orchomenos, Thebes, Sparta, Tirintha, etc. We find thousands, but paradoxically they all date from after 1500 BC !!!
There is the question
On all the thousands of tablets, both in the palace and in private homes, their language is Greek. If the Cretans spoke something else, would we find non-Greek words in the letter B?
@@panagiotis7946 World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
Do you consider Minoan and Eteocretan to be synonymous?
"Minoan" is the name that the British archaeologist gave to the bronze age civilization that lived in crete and and it comes from the legendary king Minos the son Zeus. We dont know how the so called Minoans called themselves. The name "Eteocretans" (meaning origina Cretans in greek) is how Homer and classical age Greeks called the non Greek or non Mycenaean people that lived in crete. So we can say that the term "Eteocretans" is synonym to "Minoan" and perhaps a better term.
Good question.
Minoans would be the indigenous civilization of Crete that existed until 1450 BC.
Eteocretans would be the descendants of those Minoans that lived during subsequent periods, after the Minoan civilization had fallen.
eteocretans went as far as cyprus, they probably spoke a language that was partly minoan and partly ancient greek, the minoans themselves might not even have understood them like English speakers dont understand german
Almost certainly yes. They were probably one and the same.
@@MichaelMyers-qu8tj Pelasgians , Kydonians , Dorians , Acheans , Eteocretans , All lived in Crete according to Homer and others , all Greek tribes all speaking a Greek dialect of there won . Homer and classical Greeks never mentioned that in Greece lived any other nation but Greeks .Read Plato , Aristotle , Thucydides Herodotus .
Zeus was a Greek God and his son according to you ( AND OTHERS ) was king Minos , how in the name of logic Minoans-Eteocretans are non Greeks ?
Linear A, was the language spoken before the submergence of Aigialis. This is a track of inductive thought. Linear A, was the basis on which the classical Greek language involved to such intellectual heights to be considered a gift of the gods for their chosen people their Greek children.
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
@@user-ox5db9pz1l All these magnificent information is retracted from classical hellenic sources because knowledge of such deep times no one recorded but my ancestors, my good friend. Anything else the info, υοθ ρεφερ, is wilful thinking, like the true archaeology of the Bible's manipulation of history. Oh! Slavs descended to the Haimos peninsula c. 600. ΥΓΙΕΝΕΙΝ.
@@user-ox5db9pz1l @user-ox5db9pz1l All these magnificent information is retracted from classical hellenic sources because knowledge of such deep times no one recorded but my ancestors, my good friend. Anything else the info, you refer, is wilful thinking, like the true archaeology of the Bible's manipulation of history. Oh! Slavs descended to the Haimos peninsula c. 600. ΥΓΙΕΝΕΙΝ.
@@uchfed9499 This all is not the point. Point is wild Greeks came from Afrika took Pelasgian language and culture and mixed with Pelasgian people. Look below if you can see some similarities between proto Serbian and on the right side old Greek. Next below you can see something about Vucedol first culture 11500 BC and from there spreading slowly all over the Balkan. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans and Anatolia: In Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia, Scythia, Hittite and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian. It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language. Here some comparason Proto Serbian (Proto Slavic) and Greek.
(Proto Serbian-Slavic)………………….....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)……………….….(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)………..................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)……………………..….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…....(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)…………...(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)…………………….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)……………(Teke wudas proti wudei)
I can add more samples the whole Greek language.
@@uchfed9499 This all is not the point. Point is wild Greeks came from Afrika took Pelasgian language and culture and mixed with Pelasgian people. Look below if you can see some similarities between proto Serbian and on the right side old Greek. Next below you can see something about Vucedol first culture 11500 BC and from there spreading slowly all over the Balkan. Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans and Anatolia: In Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia, Scythia, Hittite and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian. It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language. Here some comparison Proto Serbian (Proto Slavic) and Greek.
(Proto Serbian-Slavic)………………….....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)……………….........….(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)……….....................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)………………........……..….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…....(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)………….....(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)………………….......….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)………...……(Teke wudas proti wudei)
I can add more samples the whole Greek language.
@federook
havent you grown tired asking for wanax here to change his style ?....
whats wrong with accepting him the way he prefers to sound ?
he sounds dramatic but thats a small price to pay for him being inspirational.
Hopefully we can use AI to derive some more insights into Linear A.
Linear A 2100 BC Linear B 1700 BC is a writing that dates only to Greece and to no other region outside the Greek world
Linear A Linear B is found in Central Greece, the Peloponnese, Crete and many islands that form a unified economic and social space
The language of Linear B is Greek
In the thousands of panels of Linear B we did not find a single one with a foreign language
In Linear A we do not have many inscriptions to draw firm conclusions but its evolution
Linear B is a further development of Linear A from it with different grammatical rules by the same people in the same Greek space
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
@@user-ox5db9pz1l 1. the Vinča culture has a lot of interest, but it is a rural culture
where are the written texts and the cities?
2. symbols of the Vinča culture are also found in Greece
it is not a written system because the symbols were not repeated
3. we have culture when we have organized cities with residential planning, drainage
written laws
specialized jobs
Arts and Sciences
merchant ships for exports and imports
in order to create ships for voyages on the great seas, you need engineering knowledge
geometries geographies and astronomy
These do not exist in Vinča culture
4. the names for example Pelasgos Mykines Thrace Minos and all the other names only in Greek please explain
what do they mean in your language absolutely nothing
5. only the ancient Greek writings in the Greek language wrote about other peoples
why; because the other peoples had not reached such a level spiritually
6. the Cyrillic script is from the Byzantine period for the civilization of the Slavs of the 9th century
why didn't the slavs have writing?
7.Neolithic cultures, perhaps the oldest in Europe, are found in Greece 7500 BC
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesklo
@@panagiotis7946 You are not reading what I wrote "This is first world culture in development before anything else existed" then this culture spread to south with Pelasgian peoples, than the wild Greeks came and learned everything took the language (See below). If your skin is white your ancestry is Pelasgian, if your skin is little bit dark your ancestry is Greek. Because Pelasgian where dominant they developed everything what Greek today is, I can give you all the proof. You are saying it is not proto Serbian but it is Greek and I’m saying that’s the same.
I could add lots of samples in the 1000.
(Proto Serbian)…………………....(Greek)
(Co pak pecete?)………………….(Sa poka pessete?)
(Co tudy delas?)……….................(Sa tuidi dielas?)
(Deljm wino)…………………….….(Dieljmi winon)
(Ty rjkas, ma kapsa gest plna)…...(Ty irjakas, ema kapsa gesti plea)
(Toto jaro idem na hory)…………..(Tuto jar ithou na hori)
(Koname pracy)…………………….(Koinaomes praxin)
(Tece woda proti wode)……………(Teke wudas proti wudei)
Perhaps AI will soon give us the answer to this mystery, and to other historical mysteries.
Isn't there evidence from art and artifacts that the Minoans were related to the people of Mari in Syria?
I once saw a video on RUclips claiming they were Hungarian.
We know that the minoans had trade relationships with other bronze age civilizations like Egypt and Levant and have been influenced by them.(During that age every Eastern Mediterranean culture influenced each other) but we dont have any evidence of genetic or language relations with people from the Levant and Syria.
@@sotirismitzolis5171 I think this comes from a theory that the Vinca culture, which is in the Craphatian basin and the Balkan colonise to west, east and south. This mainly comes from the Etruscean and Troyan connections. Than DNA results showed that Hungarian DNA is indigenous in the Carphatian basin at least 3500 years.
I think it would’ve sounded very much like language from the Lavant that or Anatolia
Do you think it could've also sounded somewhat like Greek except not really intelligible?
@@WanaxTV probably somewhat like Cypriot today
@@Weedwizard600 cypriot is greek not a separate language, they may use some different words from ancient greek origin but mostly its just greek with different accent im greek and can understand them because they speak greek lol
@@Error_-qz2zr when did I say that Cypress isn’t Greek origin? I said it sounds like it’s from the Lavant which it does.
@@Error_-qz2zr I’m Greek to and don’t pretend that Cypriot isnt hard to understand sometimes lol
World first cultures Vucedol, Lepenski Vir (Iron Gates) starts 11500 BC, Starcevo culture starts 6200 BC, Vinča culture starts 5700 BC, today Serbia. Samarra culture 5500-4800 BCE, Cucuteni culture starts 4800 BC, Varna culture starts 4500 BC, Yamnaya culture 3300 BC.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. (Now in 2024 we have year 7532) Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Haarmann about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan-called themselves Rasi, in Serbia exist even today province Ras. Wendi, (Wendisch museum in Cottbus, Germany, Lusatian Sorbs, Lužički Srbi.) Illiyrians, Macedonians (Homer is saying Paeonian people walked on foot 11 Days to help Trojans war), Dardanians (Original Troy is here, not in Turkey, Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Thracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arrived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgars from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
After Trojan war many groups of people left Troy in all directions to middle Europe, northern Europe to Britain and Scandinavia, south to Anatolia.One group under Aeneas sat sail with 22 ships and about 3400 followers and reach Italy-Etruscans.
Proto Serbian language spoken all over the Balkans in Illyria, Thracia, Dardania, Moesia, Pelasgia, Macedonia, Etruria, Bhrygia, Sarmatia and so on….Germans published dictionary in year 1791 German- Illyrian so you can read the words and speak, it is today Serbian.It is older than Sanskrit, Greek, Latin or all western European languages. Plato confirms in his work The Dialogues of Plato-Cratylus the Greeks used Pelasgian (Proto Serbian) to develop their own language.
I mean, that's interesting but many of those claims are highly contested. Could you bring forth the source of this information? Of course, it would be a lot of info lol, but I'm really interested in knowing this perspective.
@@dudusantosnutricionista5278 Thank you for your interest, yes this is a very large area of research and I included some ref. but what would you like to know throw some questions?
@@user-ox5db9pz1l The precise location of Troy and the whereabouts of the survivors it would be very interesting
@@dudusantosnutricionista5278 Troy is close to today Belgrade at that time there was Panonian see and it is freezing in the winter time just how Homer is writing in the Iliad. I could send you more info per email.
@@user-ox5db9pz1l a lot of places are freezing in the winter, A LOT, and the concept of cold may vary from one location from another. A Mediterranean person may think that 10°C is freezing, while this is a really enjoyable and tempered climate for someone living in Scandinavia
'''DOUG"" says , off we go , to see what we can learn !!!!
Minoans is where our Greek alphabet is coming and Latin and of course Cyrillic
That's the Phoenician alphabet you're thinking of. The modern Greek alphabet came later.
@@DarDarBinks1986 Phoenician is a syllabic writing system
It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classical scientific sense of the term since it has an incomplete structure.
does not separate letter-phoneme but SYLLABLES, except that the vowels or consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all.
Only the Greek alphabet progressed to the separation of syllables into letter-phoneme-sound
the Phoenician A, how do you explain it since the Phoenicians had no vowels and finally it has a different phonetic quality than the Greek A
All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. The grammar, syntax, tone, phoneme syllables are in Greek.
if the alphabet had been found in Syria-Lebanon, it would have spread as a more practical script to Egyptians, Syrians, Arameans, Mesopotamians, but this did not happen to those who continued to write until Hellenistic times in cuneiform script.
the Phoenician script is a simplification of the syllabic Cyprominoan script in Cyprus
In fact, the Cyprominoan script is more complete for writing complex texts because it preserves the vowels
today we cannot read Carthaginian inscriptions that were supposed to be written in the Phoenician script
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_Administration_Inscription
from the 4th century BC after the fall of the Persian Empire, the entire east from Egypt to Mesopotamia was written in the Greek alphabet. Why did they prefer the Greek alphabet and not the Phoenician script?
Cyril and Method are a constructs it seems like it was Greeks making Serbs and other Vinca Civilization people literate . Using the chronology its obvious, that Greeks have copied so called Cyrillic, Vinca script and alphabet . Letters they could not pronounce they changed ,but left the number which was allocated to each letter the same , so that alone is very telling. Etruscan was deciphered using modern Serbian and Cyrillic or rather Vinca alphabet . This can all be found in various modern books written by westerners and also in various documentaries. All you need is open mind and a will to learn new more substantiated explanations.
@@DarDarBinks1986 Phoenician is a writing system.
It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classic scientific sense of the term because it has an incomplete structure.
it does not separate letter-phoneme but syllables, except that the vowels or the consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all
the Phoenician A, how do you explain that, since the Phoenicians had no vowels and ultimately have a different sound quality than the Greek A?
All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. grammar, syntax, tone, phoneme syllables are in Greek.
Had the alphabet been found in Syria-Lebano, it would have spread as a more practical script among the Egyptians, Syrians, Aramaeans, and Mesopotamians, but this did not happen among those who continued to write in cuneiform into the Hellenistic-Roman period.
All areas begin in the 3rd century BC. from the Hellenistic period to use the Greek alphabet. Why wasn't it used so many centuries before the Phoenician script? Simply because the Greek alphabet is the only real alphabet and fits all languages. The elements of the Greek alphabet are real phonemes, not syllables
Do not confuse today's Semitic writings with the Arabic-Aramaic Hebrew that evolved over time
with the era of Phoenician writing
Where are the written philosophical and scientific texts of the Phoenicians?
The few inscriptions in Carthage are unreadable en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_Administration_Inscription
Ahiram's Larnaca is dated to the 10th century BC completely unscientifically and based on the Bible. BC, the era of Solomon, while there are Cypriot vessels from the 5th century BC. were found!!!!!!!!!
even the name is Greek
because with the Phoenician writing system it would not be possible to write the Greek language, which uses many vowels or words consisting only of vowels
The truth is that the Greek alphabets such as Ionian, Chalcidian, Corinthian, Boeotian, Attic, etc. evolved from Linear B as the Phoenician and Cypromino scripts
The Phoenician script is a simplification of the Cypromino syllabary of Cyprus
In fact, the Cypromino script is more complete for writing complex texts because it preserves the vowels
Of the ancient languages, only Greek and Latin were recorded in many books in a complete and understandable manner
All other languages and writings, such as cuneiform, were based on language models used by scientists that have nothing to do with the reality of what exactly was written
Anyone can read whatever they want because we don't know grammar or syntax
@@DarDarBinks1986 Phoenician is a writing system.
It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classic scientific sense of the term because it has an incomplete structure.
it does not separate letter-phoneme but syllables, except that the vowels or the consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all
the Phoenician A, how do you explain that, since the Phoenicians had no vowels and ultimately have a different sound quality than the Greek A?
All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. grammar, syntax, tone, phoneme syllables are in Greek.
Had the alphabet been found in Syria-Lebano, it would have spread as a more practical script among the Egyptians, Syrians, Aramaeans, and Mesopotamians, but this did not happen among those who continued to write in cuneiform into the Hellenistic-Roman period.
All areas begin in the 3rd century BC. from the Hellenistic period to use the Greek alphabet. Why wasn't it used so many centuries before the Phoenician script? Simply because the Greek alphabet is the only real alphabet and fits all languages. The elements of the Greek alphabet are real phonemes, not syllables
Do not confuse today's Semitic writings with the Arabic-Aramaic Hebrew that evolved over time
with the era of Phoenician writing
Where are the written philosophical and scientific texts of the Phoenicians?
The few inscriptions in Carthage are unreadable en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_Administration_Inscription
Ahiram's Larnaca is dated to the 10th century BC completely unscientifically and based on the Bible. BC, the era of Solomon, while there are Cypriot vessels from the 5th century BC. were found!!!!!!!!!
even the name is Greek
because with the Phoenician writing system it would not be possible to write the Greek language, which uses many vowels or words consisting only of vowels
The truth is that the Greek alphabets such as Ionian, Chalcidian, Corinthian, Boeotian, Attic, etc. evolved from Linear B
as the Phoenician and Cypromino scripts
The Phoenician script is a simplification of the Cypromino syllabary of Cyprus
In fact, the Cypromino script is more complete for writing complex texts because it preserves the vowels
Of the ancient languages, only Greek and Latin were recorded in many books in a complete and understandable manner
All other languages and writings, such as cuneiform, were based on language models used by scientists that have nothing to do with the reality of what exactly was written
Anyone can read whatever they want because we don't know grammar or syntax
Manoan could be a pre indo European language, possibly predating the Europeans
please stay cool everyone....and patience
Give it a bit of time some albanian comments will pop up to put things back in order ! lol !!
Albanische 😂😂😂😂 junge gehe mal eine Aufenthaltsgenehmigung besorgen😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂
yeah ,, surly the Albanians will claim it was Albanian ! According to them every thing and everybody was Albanian , rumor has it recently ,they are claiming JfK Kennedy was Albanian he he he
I think that it is important to separate the writing from the speech in this case, otherwise it might generate confusion. I mean, I'm no expert, but from what I know, i presume that both linear A and B are from proto Indo-European origins in terms of speaking language, but the alphabet was borrowed later on from the Phoenicians. When it comes from not knowing the origin, you mean the symbols/letters and their meaning?
Phoenician is a writing system.
Phoenician and cuneiform are writing systems like exactly the linear scripts I II in Greece
It does NOT count as an ALPHABET in the classic scientific sense of the term because it has an incomplete structure.
it does not separate letter-phoneme but syllables, except that the vowels or the consonants X, Ψ, Φ were not included at all
the Phoenician A, how do you explain that, since the Phoenicians had no vowels and ultimately have a different sound quality than the Greek A?
All scientific terms related to writing, e.g. grammar, syntax, tone, phoneme syllables are in Greek.
Had the alphabet been found in Syria-Lebano, it would have spread as a more practical script among the Egyptians, Syrians, Aramaeans, and Mesopotamians, but this did not happen among those who continued to write in cuneiform into the Hellenistic-Roman period.
All areas begin in the 3rd century BC. from the Hellenistic period to use the Greek alphabet. Why wasn't it used so many centuries before the Phoenician script? Simply because the Greek alphabet is the only real alphabet and fits all languages. The elements of the Greek alphabet are real phonemes, not syllables
Do not confuse today's Semitic writings with the Arabic-Aramaic Hebrew that evolved over time
with the era of Phoenician writing
Where are the written philosophical and scientific texts of the Phoenicians?
@@panagiotis7946 Thank you for the explanation!
Perfect video, I love this subject. The Minoan Civilization is very interesting and mysterious.
Just one problem... quit using "BCE", it's lame.
B.C and A.C its the proper term my friend 👍
il n y avait pas assez d habitant sur la terre pour qu il y est deux langues differentes a quelques vou de rames entre l egypte et la crete
It is important to know that this people was neither Hellenic nor spoke their language. The Hellenes adopted their script as described in the video.
Yes this what i say all the times. At that time there Ist no Greek or Hellenic. This is few thousand years before. Greeks came later, didn't call themselves Greeks and so on. The so called scholars are a hoax. You can find 65% of linear A signs in the Vinca script. But nobody cares. Even linear B isn't deciphered. That's simply not the truth.
That's not entirely accurate. Considering the DNA link between the Minoans and the Mycenaeans who are Hellenes.
As for what they spoke well that's what this video is about. Parts of Linear A exist in Linear B which the Mycenaeans used.
@@VoltesWithElias They werent Hellenes. Modern Greeks Have ancestry From minoans. And they were known to mix with Carians who are related to Minoans.
So Minos son of Asterios is a decentant of Doros.Why do you even ask what language his peope spone?They spoke the dorian dialect of the hellenic language like every other Dorian.
We are Africans, we came from Africa we speak, Africans
When you see a word Tyrrhenian it should actually be pronounced n understood as Turhan which changes everything we no off
They spoke minoan.
Minoans were neolithic Anatolian people. Its the first people of Greece before the arrivals of Indo European Greeks. Modern Greek today is mixed with this both culture's and people
IT IS GREEK
It's highy likely that Minoan was a branch of the Berber languages of North Africa. Greek tradition spoke of numerous cultural influences from North Africa which reached the Aegean world in primeval times.
If I may: What's your opinion on who the ancient Berbers really were? Second on the results of my DNA test shows Canary Islanders & ancient Berbers.
Possible. Atlantis was in north west africa
@@JustJoe326 The Guanches were ethnically and linguistically Berbers. The group we call "Berber" is part of the larger Afro-Asiatic family; a family which includes both Ancient Egyptian as well as the Semitic languages. Genetically, the people of these regions are what we call "Caucasian" and ultimately related, however distantly, to the Indo-Europeans. The ancient Berbers (Libyans) were portrayed by the Egyptians as white-skinned and often red-headed. The Guanches were similar in appearance.
@@thevelikovskian6119 For me, that's valuable information. Thank you.
Proto Slavic 😊
I'd say it appears heavily influenced by Egyptian Hieroglyphics which makes sense given the close relations between the cultures
It actually has no similarities whatsoever. We call a hieroglyphic script, but it's actually a syllabary.
@thewayforliberation5801 It may not be linguistically/structurally, but aesthetically it's similar at least to my eye
Hieroglyphics...what word is?Hellenic or Egyptian?Its hellenic ,you can search it...when you want to discover something,search the word root,what it means,where it was referred first or written..
@@stucco76
Bravo, bravo one of first intelligent comments I’ve heard relating to these subjects
Bravo ,having made this statement, the Egyptian, Hellenic Minoans (Atlanteans) were related
@stucco76 What do you mean? Hieroglyphics is a Greek word referring to the much older Egyptian system of writing
Υπολογιστε 100,150, μέτρα πιο κάτω ή θάλασσα άρα δεν ήταν ξερονήσια όπως τώρα ή γραφή ξεκινάει από όταν ό άνθρωπος ζωγραφίζει
Minoans also have relations with West Anatolia. There was a Minoan colony in Miletus. Miletus was in the territory of Arzawa Kingdom. We know that Arzawa had frequent diplomatic letter traffic with Hittites and Egypt. Arzawa clay tablet archive still couldn’t found. Arzawa was the only one late bronze age Agean civilisation that their writing content was not limited with trade recordings like Myceaneans and Minoans. Most probably Arzawa archive includes very valuable informations about late bronze age Agean region.
Arzawa was the second main power in Anatolia at late bronze age (bc 1600-bc 1200) and regarded as main power during the Hittite’s short dark age (bc 1500-bc 1400).
Minoans were weakened after Bc 1450 big earthquake. Myceaneans attacked weakened Minoans around that dates. There is a possibility that Minoans requested help from his neighbours. Arzawa was the closest compared to others. Arzawa conquared Crete and Morea Peninsula at bc 1.900 according to archeological findings. Arzawa can set contact through Miletus. There could be a communication through clay tablets. Arzawa clay tablet archieve most probably includes a lot of information of Late bronze age Aegean Region. Hittites and Egypt documents dont mention Minoans. It is also interesting that while Minoans were invaded by Myceaneans, Hittites were in short dark period and Arzawa was the main power in Anatolia. It seems impossible that Arzawa didn’t do anything while Crete was invading. Also other West Anatolian states (Assuwa, Caria, Lycia) could have been involved in this conflict since their Aegean sea interests was effected.
@@mukan9 no earthquake occurred in 1450
the subcontinent of Santorini erupted in 1650
the Minoans participated in the Trojan War
there is no invasion of Crete, these are free assumptions
it is funny to think that Minoans fought with Sparta and Pylos when they had such close economic and social relations.
What do we think the Mycenaeans went with 50 ships and conquered Crete?
stupid speculations that no ancient writer mentions
all the Minoan palaces were not destroyed.
I am sure that they speak greek
AI will solve the mistery.
Minoans have no to modern Greaks - modern Greaks appeard in VIII centery B.C.
Your claim doesnt make sence. Slavs came to The Balkans during this century. But Greeks are not Slavic people. Modern Greeks do have very strong genetic similarities with ancient Mycenaeans, despite any possible mixing though the centuries.
They spoke in Avatars and memes.
Undecifered because they're gibberish.
They are cultural concepts, not words.
We are succumbing to memes.
Pay attention.
Is the narrator an AI?
Not a chance. 🫡
4:59 the = sign in the pictograms denotes 'male' ... (just saying) :-)
Minian
Too bad all the existing written symbols (and hieroglyphs) of not just Minoan, but all the other known languages we know of at this time from the Mediterranean basin as well as North Africa, the Middle East/Anatolia and points farther East, Persian, Elamite, Harrapan, etc.., fed into an AI computer and see if an Artificial Intelligence Computer could work decipher the Linier A language.
All computers work PERFECT with linear B by the way...the mother of our Greek language today..its written in mathematics and obey to O-1 dyadic system..
100% Hellenic,Egyptian,Minoan (Atlantean)
please try to forget the waffle some experts in the past have uttered
not having a clue and confusing this Great History, creating a complete shamozale of the truth
I would guess they spoke Minoan 😂
subject interesting, but the tone of the voice is so boring... it's a pain to ear it... Are you bored to tell this story ?
They spoke Greek, just haven't undeciphered yet
if they spoke Greek why they cant decipher it like Linear B, take in mind they have 80% the same symbols
They didn't. The Mycaneans were the Greeks. The Minoans were absorbed/assimilated and became Greek.
@@ceohadenough894 Because 80% of them are different. Many symbols of Linear B haven't been decipher and around 250.000 tablets in the storages of Museum of Crete haven't even studied yet. Yes 99% of the linear B tablets are in Crete.
@@constantinethecataphract5949 According to Ancient Greek mythology it was the other way around. Minoans took over mainland.
The Greeks are indoeuropeans and they came from North preaty late. Before the warriors indoeuropeans, the Mycenaeans cities didn't have defending walls. Folowing the culture and habits you will understand much more. Before the indoeuropeans Greeks în the Mycenaean civilization were no leaders and authorities to collect taxes or others kind of later habits.
It’s such a pity their ancient writing system was replaced. It’s as unique as Egyptian hieroglyphics, Sumerian cuneiform or Chinese characters. Instead the Greeks adopted the common alphabet shared my multiple civilizations instead of retaining something unique.
Yeah, thanks to that people don't have to learn 3000-ish characters to be able to call themselves literate, and thus higher education is available to people who aren't in the ruling class. Alphabet was adopted just because it is much more practical than pictographs or any other form of writing for that matter
it was harder to write that script
@@jacekstepinski5245 but you’re not unique then. Just the run of the mill ordinary civilization like Haiti, Carthage, Ukraine … all alphabet users who are extinct or will go extinct soon whom no one will miss.
@@RichardEdwards40 didn’t JFK say we should do things because they’re hard, and not because they’re easy?
@@Shimra8888 And JFK is some kind of a supreme authority? Just because a famous person said it doesn't mean its true. We don't do things because they are easy, we don't do them because they are hard. We do them because they are usefull or necessary. Also calling Ukraine and Haiti civilizations is crazy, they are nations - there is a pretty significant difference. Also Carthage is one of the most studied and famous ancient civilizations. Do you also think that classical greece and the romans are somehow remember less than the myceneas, assyrians, hittites etc., because they used an alphabet? Kind of a crazy take
its not the earliest written language in europe , far from it ... Dispilio tablet is +3.000 years older than the oldest Linear script we know of , its not 300 years its 3 millenia before that , vinca culture is also close to 3.000y older than Linear A
myceneans came from minoans , minoans came from minians
@tengolino9803 in response: I agree that linear A derives from neolithic symbols/writing(see Marija Gimbutas). It is, in my opinion, based in matrilineal social structures, predating hirarchical male domination. That's why nobody wants to talk about it
Hurrian
The fact that they used writing for administration suggests that what we do have may be an abbreviated, shorthand form of the language.
Like trying to reconstruct English from inventory sheets.
Could the Minoans be related to the Phoenicians? Can the few names known from Knosos, e.g., Minos, led us some linguistic clue?
Related to Phoenicians ? ha ha ha ,,,, They were in Crete 6.000 years before the Phoenicians appeared in history ! As a mater of fact they even colonized the middle East .
Its a shame you being Greek and have no notion of history Blaka
Ο Μίνωας παίζει κεντρικό ρόλο στην ελληνική μυθολογία και συνδέεται με τα βασίλεια της Ελλάδας. Όπως όλοι οι Έλληνες, ο εγγονός του Ιδομενέα συμμετέχει στον Τρωικό Πόλεμο
τα μυθολογικά ονόματα της μινωικής Κρήτης όπως Αστέριος, Αριάνδος, Ανδρόγεος, Ιδομενέας, Μυριόνης, Φαίδρα, Μίνωας, Μινώταυρος, Δαίδαλος, Ίκαρος κ.λπ. είναι μόνο ελληνικά και στα ελληνικα ετοιμολογουντε
Minoanese?
Greece = The Mother of all civilizations.
Let it be proven first!
There will always be a possibilty for an earlier civilisation to be revealed
And ihor runs in their blood vessels?
@@savvassyrmopoulos5570 Of course Savva. But until then we trust in what is w-r-i-t-t-e-n. The rest are speculations.
@@azwris Correct. Scripta manent! :)