Thanks for a wonderful comparison between the machines. I honestly thought the Lumagden was a far superior NLS. MadVR functions seamlessly. NO HEADACHES going back & forth. Truly a Wonderful demonstration👊🏽😎👊🏽 Thank You.
Ahhh! INow I understand what you mean by instant Andrew. My Lumagen isn’t close to being that fast with its auto aspect ratio changing. Lumagen has been the only game in the market and haven’t done the refining they should have. Even their newest system doesn’t have network support for software updates. I think they may have taken their solo position in this space for granted. There were already dealing with the top tier of custom home theaters. Now anybody that’s building a top end system is going to go for the MadVR envy instead of the Lumagen. They are in trouble. They were already in a niche market. Great video as always. Now I just need to dig in my seat cushions for 15k!
@HomeTheatreEngineering --- So is there an audio processor that's for home theater surround sound that's the equivalent of this or are all the best audio processors for Hi-Fi stereo?
Excellent video as always! Your content is excellent. But the effect that the director has been changing the aspect ratio lately is normal like so many other movies (Mission Impossible for ex). in my view, this change in screen aspect ratio alters the visual impact of action scenes. If the screen is in 16x9 format and the film is in 2:35:1 format there will be black bars at the top and bottom. But when passing an action scene (pay attention to the scene) the aspect ratio changes to 16x9 thus causing a greater visual impact by filling the entire screen. I think this is it!
No more masking screens. You can still get a similar effect with the lumagen and a kalidescape but you would still need to set the aspect ratio to compensate for the shift in picture, it's not perfect but doesn't really impact the movie that much. I still think the mad vr is the way to go for the ultimate cinema at home experience!
IMHO: the Envy might be a bit faster but what are we talking about here? Maybe 5-6 movies that have benefit? It's not like a killer feature or something. In general (in my opinion) the Envy looks a little to digital in picture quality compared to the Lumagen. It all depends on the customer and taste.
Yes I agree not many movies have this issue but when they do it’s irritating. In terms of processing speed I’m not sure how you are judging that but Madvr is instant lumagen takes about 3 secs. This is one of many many features though and one that was heavily requested of us. It’s Aspect to screen adjustment is a piece of cake. It’s subtitle management is, well the only unit that can do that. With 96bit floating point 4:4:4 algorithms it’s massively powerful and it is soooo easy to use. Even at a professional level calibrating it is much easier and with more options. I am not sure how you are judging the “digital looking image” hopefully not of our RUclips video that was shot with an iPhone! You need to see it in real life. And as per the description notes we had lights on in the room for the video and one unit was calibrated and the other not this was all well documented. We just had an opening night and everyone there was blown away by how cinematic it looked, Don’t take my word for it though, come and see it for yourself…in real life, you be the judge.
Completely disagree. The MadVR is a game-changer. This was Science-Fiction even a few years ago. I've been into HT for 30 years. This is like comparing horse and cart to a Motor car.
Very good explanation and demo. With the capabilities that the madVR brings for auto aspect ratio switching I'm guessing that a (scope) screen with automatic masking is no longer needed? When I watch 16:9 content, will the madVR stretch that to scope; or is masking the sides of the 16:9 image still the best approach? For me, image quality is paramount, so if watching 16:9 content stretched to scope degrades the image, then masking will be the way to go. Thanks again for the content.
Masking is always the best answer. But . . . . It is costly, often but not always noisy and these days cannot move fast enough for changing aspect ratio movies.. This become problematic. The answer is to ensure your video system is designed well for maximum dynamic range. Using a 16:9 projector on a scope screen will always mean you are throwing away pixels and light even in using a madVR but the madvr does manage everything perfectly and instantly. But there is no getting away from correctly matching projector and screen.
Andrew-- It would be great to hear about the comparison of the NLS between the MadVR Envy and Lumagen. While it's a neat feature to help with movies that are changing aspect ratios, they aren't that common. Would really enjoy seeing your thoughts on the NLS comparison (and DTM). Great videos!!
@@HomeTheatreEngineering i mean for DCI or is forbidden and the DCI Interface,harddrives etc are a cost topic that 0,1% of Freya owner will use, Bit maybe i am wrong. I had the chance to check the Freya MK2 for several hours and hesitate because of the not needed costly features
@@patrickmartin4482 Ah I understand and good point. There are a few things to address here and it’s midnight in my part of the world :-) but yes those features are aimed at a market that can perhaps use them but many cannot afford. Having said that the DCI DCP ingestion capability is not a massive part of the total cost. The Freya especially though has such an amazingly good light engine made all the more trustworthy due to DCI “purity” that the image quality is ridiculously good. It’s interesting that our Freya is of course FLAT or close to 16:10 whereas our Bragi is 5k 2.40 so we lose a LOT of the Freya pixels off the top and bottom of our Scope screen and even more so when we show 16:9 content in the middle of that. Yet people absolutely love it yet technically the Bragi smashes it for resolution ??? The light output dynamic range and colour luminance just decimates any thought of resolution and the blacks are just terrific. So I probably wouldn’t be too concerned over the cost of those hard drives when you look at what that light engine actually delivers.. be interested to know your decision and thoughts. Good night from Aus :-)
On the Lumagen you could just lock it on to 2.35 ratio and there won’t be any switching delay because it’ll just crop the 16x9 parts and everything stays 2.35. Works great for me! That’s the way I do these variable aspect ratio movies. I don’t care for them to be honest. Pick a ratio and stay with it.
Ok so that’s a good point. Except you don’t even need a video processor to do that ! You can pretty much fix any projector to 2.35 etc and then crop/blank. But who wants to crop and image if you don’t have to! If you are going to use a video processor, use one that does the lot … and of top of all that doesn’t loose any subtitles either….. I don’t care for those movies either to be honest :-)
@@HomeTheatreEngineering it's a matter of time, I am 100÷ sure they will make Lumagen to auto aspect instantaneously as well. At the moment it's only one feature in MadVR that does better than Lumagen, the rest it's a no for MadVR.
@@soufilms I have used both and I am a big fan of Lumagen. And there is every reason for a client to buy a Lumagen but having used MadVR in detail and for some time now I categorically state there is so much more than just that “1” feature. The fact that I could log onto a clients unit 4000km away and support them, see what they are seeing, help them upload a LUT, demonstrate the settings with them on line and do a firmware update in seconds are just a few of the other capabilities. Front and Back LUT capability for those that want to get even more precise is an addition. I assume you have used a MadVR Envy Extreme and put it side by side with a Lumagen and tried carrying out the same tasks or similar on both? How did that go? If you have done this I find it hard to imagine that you would post a comment like this. Lets face it the menu alone is much simpler to navigate and use and the fact that I dont need to connect a laptop or PC to it to update it is another winner. I can also say I have had great success with calibration and been able to confirm its accuracy using Colourspace and Calman.
A far cheaper option for aspect only is using the blanking feature included on a lot of projectors, you get the format the director wanted without screen bleeding off.
You can but you have to ensure you have your presets set up correctly but bear in mind you are still not using 30% of your pixels and some of the total light output but yes it works.
As always you guys are the best in your work... awesome product and awesome review!!! But i have a doubt that can it do opposite in aspect ratio i.e. take a scope image and fill 16:9 screen??? Just curious!!!
Well think about the geometry. Using constant image height we can easily fit any narrower format onto a wider format screen but how would you like to fit your wider format onto a narrower format screen do you want to stretch it vertically??? Or do you want to zoom it out and crop the left and right sides? This has been done for a while actually with zoom etc but you will lose your left and right image as said..
I was wondering if you used an anamorphic lens? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you don't use that the 16:9 picture will not have the full resolution since it's placed in the 21:9 frame.
Sorry about the late reply. In the room we filmed this in no we didn’t have an anamorphic lens but we did have a $180,000 DCI Projector. And yes you are right. In our other room we have a native CinemaScope Barco projector and on that then this would be incorrect! But in either case between the MadVR’s image processing and the lesser importance of resolution compared to many other image quality factors then this is not an issue and you have multiple choices as to how you can personally handle this
Hi Andrew. Thanks for the video. In my case I’m using a projector without an anamorphic lens (my JVC N7 projects 16:9) so if I have something zoomed to 2.4:1 so it fills my scope screen, any time I go back to 16:9 content I get the image projected off the top and bottom of the screen. At the start of the Interstellar demo when you had NLS disabled, the picture was 2.4:1 then jumped to 16:9 (or whatever Nolan uses)-BUT at that point the 16:9 image isn’t off the screen! Does that mean it’s projecting artificial black bars on sides? How does the MadVR handle this when you have a scope screen and non-anamorphic lens?
Hi first of all, thanks for commenting. Ok so the first thing is regardless of process there is always a compromise. The closest there is to any kind of no compromise “perfection” is a Barco CS projector or second best is a 16:9 projector with a moveable lens. The second option takes a bit of work and still doesn’t react instantly. Now bear in mind these mid movie aspect changes luckily are not in every movie .. thank heavens. Now back to your question. If you chose to use a 16:9 projector on a scope screen and want instant and auto aspect management then it will always be projecting part of the image off the top and bottom of the screen. With a MadVR it then maps the image to your screen and makes it fit perfectly all the time, but you are always losing something. So we have 2 choices live with what we have and the capability of that system and it’s limitations or… but a Barco CS and a MadVR for perfect aspect ratio and no loss of resolution at all ! But that costs $$
No you would definitely keep your lens to optimise light output and then setup the MadVR to work with the lens. Unless you have a native CS projector (and most aren't) then the lens is still something you want to keep
Have you guys ever done a cinema room for someone who wanted a IMAX like experience so they pushed for a huge 16x9 screen? Obviously you wouldn't need an anamorphic lens, so I'm wondering how you would setup a projector for a large 16x9 screen??? Would you still use the MadVR and then zoom in the 2.40:1 content to fill the screen or would you recommend a masking system for Cinemascope movies?
Yes we did a job for a client in a domestic home cinema with an 8m wide 16:9 screen it was very cool. I think we have photos on our website. He does not have a Madvr Envy as yet so Scope content is windowed but looks great. MadVR Envy though can working with scope on a 16:9 screen ! We would always recommend masking but for many the cost is prohibitive
@@HomeTheatreEngineering I just checked out your website and seen the 350" 16x9 install in WA, and wow that is incredible!!! Unfortunately for me my cinema room is in my basement where I only have a ceiling height of 2.05m with a front wall width of 3.3m, so the largest Cinemascope screen I could fit is around 115", but because of a rear doorway in the room and the low ceiling height, I can't mount a projector far enough back to fill that screen without an anamorphic lens...which is out of my budget. So I had to settle for a modest 92" 16x9 screen(which honestly feels pretty big in the room), and I have to hope that a movie is IMAX enhanced or shot in 1.85:1 in order to get the most out of my viewing experience! But even with all the compromises it's still my favorite place to be when I'm at home, so that is all that matters!
@@TerminatorJuiceJust place the projector on the floor directed to the ceiling and use a mirror in a distance that reflects the image back to the wall. So you can project much larger images.
Oh man that auto aspect is incredibly cool. Does it handle UI overlays? Like if you pause a scoped movie on Netflix, will it bring it back to 16x9. I imagine it would
I have a question, which would you buy first, a Anamorphic lens or the MadVr ? Also when you have the two, the only benefit of the lens would be the added lumens correct ?
Hi. The point here is to calibrate and install a LUT. If this is done correctly the output in terms of Black Level and Colour should be identical. That is the point of a LUT !
Can you make a video explaining which setup you have for madvr? I want to see the udh remux movies in the maximum quality but i dont know what software to use. vlc, kodi, plex, mad vr? which one is the best? which one supports dolby vision, dolby atmos all the latest technology. Thank you!
Thanks for your comment. I am a little confused VLC Kodi and Plex are nothing at all like MadVR Envy ?? They are all servers/streamers while MadVR Envy is a high end Video Processor.. it doesn’t serve content it Tone maps it and does a host of other things and it generally is after the AVR so doesn’t process audio… though you make a good point I think a video on this would be a good idea !
The switching speed is certainly impressive. I don't think that the presentation with the "IMAX" scenes scaled into the height of the 'scope screen, with pillarboxing, makes any sense for these movies, it's 180degrees to the director's intent for those scenes, which were supposed to be more impactful, not less. The NLS option still looks like very much a matter of taste to me there. I dislike it in the Lumagen, and this doesn't look really any better. Looking at the rocket scenes, with NLS enabled there is a significant fisheye lens effect in the image. Given the choice I'd probably either knock the NLS settings way back so you were still cropping some of the height, or just watch the straight vertical centre crop in scope. Or even better, watch it properly, open mask on a mask screen with top / bottom masks! :) :)
As mentioned I had not tweaked the NLS and it is fully customisable. Any fisheye effect can be eliminated it’s a case of playing with it but of course you have the purist option. However I’m true CIH you can watch any content accurately scaled
@@HomeTheatreEngineering Fair enough. Note a couple of things on the Lumagen run which aren't optimal / perhaps known : 1) HDMI does not carry signalling for 16:9 vs 2.4:1, so it will never work; that option is for certain set top boxes that would indicate 4:3 vs 16:9 over HDMI. 2) If you have the menu on screen, the Lumagen will not switch. So when you pull up the menu at 10m in the video, that actually prevents the switch it was about to do. Neither of those will speed up switching though, I think the video is more or less a fair comparison in this particular movie. I'm interested to know if the MadVR ever gets it wrong, as part of the reason the Lumagen takes a while to detect is because there were previously "false" AR Changes that would be more annoying than a slow initial switch. I wonder if the speed of detection of the MadVR may make it vulnerable to such false switches.
@@jfinnie78 hi it’s been a long day but in answer to your question I have only seen one false detection and it was a fraction of a seconds hesitation. But we tested this across multiple example and nothing else was noticed. Re 1. Agreed re 2. Madvr handles menus very well. Time for bed :-)
looks like Lumagen sitting on their hands for years someone finally took advantage of that. Slow aspect ratio detection and a horrendous menu I'm sure they are scrambling to actually do some more modern innovation. asleep at the wheel!!
Lumagen has instant switching coming to almost a year now. They need to revisit it. The only thing you get with MadVR is a niver Menu but you are paying ALOT for that menu. I went with a Lumagen :) They are not sleeping at all.
@@TechinaSec101 The instant aspect ratio with Lumagen has problems and that is well known. Still lots of bugs and like I said above they only did it to catch up to madVR (meaning they were sitting on their hands and sleeping at the wheel). The NLS kills Lumagen it's not even close. The menus are not just "pretty" but much more intuitive and firmware updates are night and day difference (instant versus the Lumagen f*ckery) offering future updates that are actually major updates with the new hardware/MK2 they just released. I've spend years with Lumagen, as an integrator/dealer, and now with madVR it's night and day difference. You get what you pay for and in this business that extra 10% of greatness costs money. it's the same case with audio gear etc sometimes the extra thousands of dollars gets you that extra 5-10% which is what puts it in its own class because it does things nothing else does. Both Lumagen and mad VR are for people with deep pockets so the extra money with madVR shouldn't be much of a factor especially when many of us are already spending 10's of thousands constantly upgrading everything else. This is for the big boys, not wanna be cheapskates.
It's unfortunate MadVR is so expensive. I am budgeting for a projector for my 2.35 screen but unless every movie in the world has changing aspect ratio, MadVR just does not seem worth it. There are probably 80-90 movies that do this and the ROI isn't there. Regardless of how amazing the tech is. It's simply over priced and only for the ultra rich folks. I am getting a JVC projector budgeting 8k-10k but even then this 10k MadVR is insanity for its price. It's amazing no doubt but only 1% of the people who buy projectors will prob adopt it (those who get it for free or at a hefty discount don't count because the average person doesn't get that kind of deal. I want it but for 10k there are so many other things one can buy.
Hi thanks for your question. There are 2 models so it depends what you are trying to achieve. There is the Extreme and the Pro. Best thing to do is contact Enzo via our website or facebook and he can chat with you and work out which option suits you and then give you a good price including setup and calibration.
No they are not. The Extreme is more expensive but it is 8k capable and has a few other tricks up it’s sleeve. The Pro which is more like an equivalent is only a bit more expensive than a lumagen. One of the amazing advantages with MadVR is that with the clients approval I can log in and help support troubleshoot or train the client from anywhere in the world and actually see on my screen the same image they are seeing. The lumagen has no network capability at all. The increased power and flexibility of this plus almost instant firmware updates plus simple automation and a host of other capabilities means you are getting much more in terms of flexibility and power. Don’t get me wrong I still love Lumagen they process video brilliantly but when it comes to sheer operability, connectivity and functionality there simple is no comparison.
@@HomeTheatreEngineering of course they are more expensive a lumagen 4242 is about 5k and the envy pro is 10k. If not please let me know where a I can buy a madvr envy pro
@@peakoil-ko5oq Hang on you can’t compare a lower priced or spec’d Lumagen at all with a MadVR Pro for the very reasons stated earlier and more. But for us here (in Aus) a 4242 is about $12k and the Envy Pro is about $14-$15k (advertised prices). That’s not double! But again the lower priced Lumagens are great value and do a great job they just don’t have the features of the MadVR. So comparing them is not that simple. They are different beasts but certainly for us not double the price.
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Andrew, thanks for another brief but informative video. Glad you were able to quickly compare the AR function with Lumagen's.
You are most welcome
Fantastic video Andrew, I'm still gobsmacked every time I see how good the NLS is. Game Changer
I’m a convert initially was dubious love it now
Thanks for a wonderful comparison between the machines. I honestly thought the Lumagden was a far superior NLS. MadVR functions seamlessly. NO HEADACHES going back & forth.
Truly a Wonderful demonstration👊🏽😎👊🏽 Thank You.
Ahhh! INow I understand what you mean by instant Andrew. My Lumagen isn’t close to being that fast with its auto aspect ratio changing. Lumagen has been the only game in the market and haven’t done the refining they should have. Even their newest system doesn’t have network support for software updates. I think they may have taken their solo position in this space for granted. There were already dealing with the top tier of custom home theaters. Now anybody that’s building a top end system is going to go for the MadVR envy instead of the Lumagen. They are in trouble. They were already in a niche market. Great video as always. Now I just need to dig in my seat cushions for 15k!
Just what I was waiting for. Great guided video 👍🏻
Thank you
@HomeTheatreEngineering --- So is there an audio processor that's for home theater surround sound that's the equivalent of this or are all the best audio processors for Hi-Fi stereo?
Amazing video we need more such videos to make MadVR easy for people its amazing product
Excellent video as always! Your content is excellent.
But the effect that the director has been changing the aspect ratio lately is normal like so many other movies (Mission Impossible for ex). in my view, this change in screen aspect ratio alters the visual impact of action scenes. If the screen is in 16x9 format and the film is in 2:35:1 format there will be black bars at the top and bottom. But when passing an action scene (pay attention to the scene) the aspect ratio changes to 16x9 thus causing a greater visual impact by filling the entire screen.
I think this is it!
No more masking screens. You can still get a similar effect with the lumagen and a kalidescape but you would still need to set the aspect ratio to compensate for the shift in picture, it's not perfect but doesn't really impact the movie that much. I still think the mad vr is the way to go for the ultimate cinema at home experience!
IMHO: the Envy might be a bit faster but what are we talking about here? Maybe 5-6 movies that have benefit? It's not like a killer feature or something. In general (in my opinion) the Envy looks a little to digital in picture quality compared to the Lumagen. It all depends on the customer and taste.
Yes I agree not many movies have this issue but when they do it’s irritating. In terms of processing speed I’m not sure how you are judging that but Madvr is instant lumagen takes about 3 secs. This is one of many many features though and one that was heavily requested of us. It’s Aspect to screen adjustment is a piece of cake. It’s subtitle management is, well the only unit that can do that. With 96bit floating point 4:4:4 algorithms it’s massively powerful and it is soooo easy to use. Even at a professional level calibrating it is much easier and with more options. I am not sure how you are judging the “digital looking image” hopefully not of our RUclips video that was shot with an iPhone! You need to see it in real life. And as per the description notes we had lights on in the room for the video and one unit was calibrated and the other not this was all well documented. We just had an opening night and everyone there was blown away by how cinematic it looked, Don’t take my word for it though, come and see it for yourself…in real life, you be the judge.
Completely disagree. The MadVR is a game-changer. This was Science-Fiction even a few years ago. I've been into HT for 30 years. This is like comparing horse and cart to a Motor car.
Very good explanation and demo. With the capabilities that the madVR brings for auto aspect ratio switching I'm guessing that a (scope) screen with automatic masking is no longer needed? When I watch 16:9 content, will the madVR stretch that to scope; or is masking the sides of the 16:9 image still the best approach? For me, image quality is paramount, so if watching 16:9 content stretched to scope degrades the image, then masking will be the way to go. Thanks again for the content.
Masking is always the best answer. But . . . . It is costly, often but not always noisy and these days cannot move fast enough for changing aspect ratio movies.. This become problematic. The answer is to ensure your video system is designed well for maximum dynamic range. Using a 16:9 projector on a scope screen will always mean you are throwing away pixels and light even in using a madVR but the madvr does manage everything perfectly and instantly. But there is no getting away from correctly matching projector and screen.
Andrew-- It would be great to hear about the comparison of the NLS between the MadVR Envy and Lumagen. While it's a neat feature to help with movies that are changing aspect ratios, they aren't that common. Would really enjoy seeing your thoughts on the NLS comparison (and DTM). Great videos!!
Glad to see more of the Freya. Looks like Liquid lightning!
Oh we love it.. dreaming of a Freya CS :-) bring it on !!
@@HomeTheatreEngineering and skip DCI, enable dynablack .. for Residential way better
@@patrickmartin4482 That’s not necessarily correct. Dynablack in which projector vs which DCI unit.?
@@HomeTheatreEngineering i mean for DCI or is forbidden and the DCI Interface,harddrives etc are a cost topic that 0,1% of Freya owner will use, Bit maybe i am wrong. I had the chance to check the Freya MK2 for several hours and hesitate because of the not needed costly features
@@patrickmartin4482 Ah I understand and good point. There are a few things to address here and it’s midnight in my part of the world :-) but yes those features are aimed at a market that can perhaps use them but many cannot afford. Having said that the DCI DCP ingestion capability is not a massive part of the total cost. The Freya especially though has such an amazingly good light engine made all the more trustworthy due to DCI “purity” that the image quality is ridiculously good. It’s interesting that our Freya is of course FLAT or close to 16:10 whereas our Bragi is 5k 2.40 so we lose a LOT of the Freya pixels off the top and bottom of our Scope screen and even more so when we show 16:9 content in the middle of that. Yet people absolutely love it yet technically the Bragi smashes it for resolution ??? The light output dynamic range and colour luminance just decimates any thought of resolution and the blacks are just terrific. So I probably wouldn’t be too concerned over the cost of those hard drives when you look at what that light engine actually delivers.. be interested to know your decision and thoughts. Good night from Aus :-)
On the Lumagen you could just lock it on to 2.35 ratio and there won’t be any switching delay because it’ll just crop the 16x9 parts and everything stays 2.35. Works great for me! That’s the way I do these variable aspect ratio movies. I don’t care for them to be honest. Pick a ratio and stay with it.
Ok so that’s a good point. Except you don’t even need a video processor to do that ! You can pretty much fix any projector to 2.35 etc and then crop/blank. But who wants to crop and image if you don’t have to! If you are going to use a video processor, use one that does the lot … and of top of all that doesn’t loose any subtitles either….. I don’t care for those movies either to be honest :-)
@@HomeTheatreEngineering it's a matter of time, I am 100÷ sure they will make Lumagen to auto aspect instantaneously as well. At the moment it's only one feature in MadVR that does better than Lumagen, the rest it's a no for MadVR.
@@soufilms I have used both and I am a big fan of Lumagen. And there is every reason for a client to buy a Lumagen but having used MadVR in detail and for some time now I categorically state there is so much more than just that “1” feature. The fact that I could log onto a clients unit 4000km away and support them, see what they are seeing, help them upload a LUT, demonstrate the settings with them on line and do a firmware update in seconds are just a few of the other capabilities. Front and Back LUT capability for those that want to get even more precise is an addition. I assume you have used a MadVR Envy Extreme and put it side by side with a Lumagen and tried carrying out the same tasks or similar on both? How did that go? If you have done this I find it hard to imagine that you would post a comment like this. Lets face it the menu alone is much simpler to navigate and use and the fact that I dont need to connect a laptop or PC to it to update it is another winner. I can also say I have had great success with calibration and been able to confirm its accuracy using Colourspace and Calman.
How is the tone mapping on the Lumagen compared to the Madvr Envy extreme?
As a user of an abandoned madVR, all I feel is Envy.
Might have to revisit this now lumagen has instant switching coming.
Exactly :)
madvr is absolutely phenomenal
A far cheaper option for aspect only is using the blanking feature included on a lot of projectors, you get the format the director wanted without screen bleeding off.
You can but you have to ensure you have your presets set up correctly but bear in mind you are still not using 30% of your pixels and some of the total light output but yes it works.
As always you guys are the best in your work... awesome product and awesome review!!!
But i have a doubt that can it do opposite in aspect ratio i.e. take a scope image and fill 16:9 screen???
Just curious!!!
Well think about the geometry. Using constant image height we can easily fit any narrower format onto a wider format screen but how would you like to fit your wider format onto a narrower format screen do you want to stretch it vertically??? Or do you want to zoom it out and crop the left and right sides? This has been done for a while actually with zoom etc but you will lose your left and right image as said..
I was wondering if you used an anamorphic lens? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you don't use that the 16:9 picture will not have the full resolution since it's placed in the 21:9 frame.
Sorry about the late reply. In the room we filmed this in no we didn’t have an anamorphic lens but we did have a $180,000 DCI Projector. And yes you are right. In our other room we have a native CinemaScope Barco projector and on that then this would be incorrect! But in either case between the MadVR’s image processing and the lesser importance of resolution compared to many other image quality factors then this is not an issue and you have multiple choices as to how you can personally handle this
@@HomeTheatreEngineering Got the Envy in the meantime 😉
@@theok9665 Did you buy it from us ? 😊
@@HomeTheatreEngineering No, I’m from the Netherlands.
@@theok9665 Enjoy !
Has Lumagen done anything to address this to equal what madVR seems to do with ease? Is it even possible to do with existing hardware/infrastructure?
Great Video Andrew !
Thank you glad you liked it
Hi Andrew. Thanks for the video. In my case I’m using a projector without an anamorphic lens (my JVC N7 projects 16:9) so if I have something zoomed to 2.4:1 so it fills my scope screen, any time I go back to 16:9 content I get the image projected off the top and bottom of the screen.
At the start of the Interstellar demo when you had NLS disabled, the picture was 2.4:1 then jumped to 16:9 (or whatever Nolan uses)-BUT at that point the 16:9 image isn’t off the screen! Does that mean it’s projecting artificial black bars on sides? How does the MadVR handle this when you have a scope screen and non-anamorphic lens?
Hi first of all, thanks for commenting. Ok so the first thing is regardless of process there is always a compromise. The closest there is to any kind of no compromise “perfection” is a Barco CS projector or second best is a 16:9 projector with a moveable lens. The second option takes a bit of work and still doesn’t react instantly. Now bear in mind these mid movie aspect changes luckily are not in every movie .. thank heavens. Now back to your question. If you chose to use a 16:9 projector on a scope screen and want instant and auto aspect management then it will always be projecting part of the image off the top and bottom of the screen. With a MadVR it then maps the image to your screen and makes it fit perfectly all the time, but you are always losing something. So we have 2 choices live with what we have and the capability of that system and it’s limitations or… but a Barco CS and a MadVR for perfect aspect ratio and no loss of resolution at all ! But that costs $$
Looks like i really need to save up and buy a MadVR Envy in 2022
So if I already have a panamorph lens I remove it and do everything with the MadVR?
No you would definitely keep your lens to optimise light output and then setup the MadVR to work with the lens. Unless you have a native CS projector (and most aren't) then the lens is still something you want to keep
How well does this work if you also use an anamorphic lens?
Just as well
Have you guys ever done a cinema room for someone who wanted a IMAX like experience so they pushed for a huge 16x9 screen? Obviously you wouldn't need an anamorphic lens, so I'm wondering how you would setup a projector for a large 16x9 screen??? Would you still use the MadVR and then zoom in the 2.40:1 content to fill the screen or would you recommend a masking system for Cinemascope movies?
Yes we did a job for a client in a domestic home cinema with an 8m wide 16:9 screen it was very cool. I think we have photos on our website. He does not have a Madvr Envy as yet so Scope content is windowed but looks great. MadVR Envy though can working with scope on a 16:9 screen ! We would always recommend masking but for many the cost is prohibitive
@@HomeTheatreEngineering I just checked out your website and seen the 350" 16x9 install in WA, and wow that is incredible!!!
Unfortunately for me my cinema room is in my basement where I only have a ceiling height of 2.05m with a front wall width of 3.3m, so the largest Cinemascope screen I could fit is around 115", but because of a rear doorway in the room and the low ceiling height, I can't mount a projector far enough back to fill that screen without an anamorphic lens...which is out of my budget. So I had to settle for a modest 92" 16x9 screen(which honestly feels pretty big in the room), and I have to hope that a movie is IMAX enhanced or shot in 1.85:1 in order to get the most out of my viewing experience! But even with all the compromises it's still my favorite place to be when I'm at home, so that is all that matters!
@@TerminatorJuice that’s great and it’s awesome hearing stories like yours thanks for the feedback !
@@TerminatorJuiceJust place the projector on the floor directed to the ceiling and use a mirror in a distance that reflects the image back to the wall. So you can project much larger images.
Oh man that auto aspect is incredibly cool. Does it handle UI overlays? Like if you pause a scoped movie on Netflix, will it bring it back to 16x9. I imagine it would
Yes and you can apparently even inject control system information though we have not played with that !
I have a question, which would you buy first, a Anamorphic lens or the MadVr ? Also when you have the two, the only benefit of the lens would be the added lumens correct ?
What projector what screen size ratio and type ?
@@HomeTheatreEngineering JVC N7, 133" cinemascope screen
In terms of hdr tone mapping, which one is better madvr / lumagen , which one has better black level / color ??
Hi. The point here is to calibrate and install a LUT. If this is done correctly the output in terms of Black Level and Colour should be identical. That is the point of a LUT !
@@HomeTheatreEngineering oh ok.. thanks
Can you make a video explaining which setup you have for madvr? I want to see the udh remux movies in the maximum quality but i dont know what software to use. vlc, kodi, plex, mad vr? which one is the best? which one supports dolby vision, dolby atmos all the latest technology.
Thank you!
Thanks for your comment. I am a little confused VLC Kodi and Plex are nothing at all like MadVR Envy ?? They are all servers/streamers while MadVR Envy is a high end Video Processor.. it doesn’t serve content it Tone maps it and does a host of other things and it generally is after the AVR so doesn’t process audio… though you make a good point I think a video on this would be a good idea !
This product is a true game-changer. Quite incredible.
Does this obviate the need for a anamorphic lens to keep quality then?
It depends how you want to go about it.. but if you have a 16:9 Projector then having a lens is the better option still
Is this only used with projectors? By this I mean, is this processing done by decent quality tv's?
No this processing is not done by TV’s but that’s a bit more of an involved topic
So when it does the linear stretch do you lose any part of the image?
No. But you can choose to crop slightly (10% for example) which can help and you don’t loose any critical info but you certainly don’t need to.
The switching speed is certainly impressive. I don't think that the presentation with the "IMAX" scenes scaled into the height of the 'scope screen, with pillarboxing, makes any sense for these movies, it's 180degrees to the director's intent for those scenes, which were supposed to be more impactful, not less. The NLS option still looks like very much a matter of taste to me there. I dislike it in the Lumagen, and this doesn't look really any better. Looking at the rocket scenes, with NLS enabled there is a significant fisheye lens effect in the image. Given the choice I'd probably either knock the NLS settings way back so you were still cropping some of the height, or just watch the straight vertical centre crop in scope. Or even better, watch it properly, open mask on a mask screen with top / bottom masks! :) :)
As mentioned I had not tweaked the NLS and it is fully customisable. Any fisheye effect can be eliminated it’s a case of playing with it but of course you have the purist option. However I’m true CIH you can watch any content accurately scaled
@@HomeTheatreEngineering Fair enough. Note a couple of things on the Lumagen run which aren't optimal / perhaps known : 1) HDMI does not carry signalling for 16:9 vs 2.4:1, so it will never work; that option is for certain set top boxes that would indicate 4:3 vs 16:9 over HDMI. 2) If you have the menu on screen, the Lumagen will not switch. So when you pull up the menu at 10m in the video, that actually prevents the switch it was about to do. Neither of those will speed up switching though, I think the video is more or less a fair comparison in this particular movie. I'm interested to know if the MadVR ever gets it wrong, as part of the reason the Lumagen takes a while to detect is because there were previously "false" AR Changes that would be more annoying than a slow initial switch. I wonder if the speed of detection of the MadVR may make it vulnerable to such false switches.
@@jfinnie78 hi it’s been a long day but in answer to your question I have only seen one false detection and it was a fraction of a seconds hesitation. But we tested this across multiple example and nothing else was noticed. Re 1. Agreed re 2. Madvr handles menus very well. Time for bed :-)
looks like Lumagen sitting on their hands for years someone finally took advantage of that. Slow aspect ratio detection and a horrendous menu I'm sure they are scrambling to actually do some more modern innovation. asleep at the wheel!!
Lumagen has instant switching coming to almost a year now. They need to revisit it. The only thing you get with MadVR is a niver Menu but you are paying ALOT for that menu.
I went with a Lumagen :) They are not sleeping at all.
@@TechinaSec101 The instant aspect ratio with Lumagen has problems and that is well known. Still lots of bugs and like I said above they only did it to catch up to madVR (meaning they were sitting on their hands and sleeping at the wheel). The NLS kills Lumagen it's not even close. The menus are not just "pretty" but much more intuitive and firmware updates are night and day difference (instant versus the Lumagen f*ckery) offering future updates that are actually major updates with the new hardware/MK2 they just released. I've spend years with Lumagen, as an integrator/dealer, and now with madVR it's night and day difference. You get what you pay for and in this business that extra 10% of greatness costs money. it's the same case with audio gear etc sometimes the extra thousands of dollars gets you that extra 5-10% which is what puts it in its own class because it does things nothing else does. Both Lumagen and mad VR are for people with deep pockets so the extra money with madVR shouldn't be much of a factor especially when many of us are already spending 10's of thousands constantly upgrading everything else. This is for the big boys, not wanna be cheapskates.
Nolan is the JOker
What’s 🇺🇸 cost for madvr?
Not sure in USD ask your local supplier
@@HomeTheatreEngineering ok thanks
part 1 video ?
It's unfortunate MadVR is so expensive. I am budgeting for a projector for my 2.35 screen but unless every movie in the world has changing aspect ratio, MadVR just does not seem worth it. There are probably 80-90 movies that do this and the ROI isn't there. Regardless of how amazing the tech is. It's simply over priced and only for the ultra rich folks. I am getting a JVC projector budgeting 8k-10k but even then this 10k MadVR is insanity for its price.
It's amazing no doubt but only 1% of the people who buy projectors will prob adopt it (those who get it for free or at a hefty discount don't count because the average person doesn't get that kind of deal. I want it but for 10k there are so many other things one can buy.
How much is this unit in AUD?
Hi thanks for your question. There are 2 models so it depends what you are trying to achieve. There is the Extreme and the Pro. Best thing to do is contact Enzo via our website or facebook and he can chat with you and work out which option suits you and then give you a good price including setup and calibration.
Can the Lumagen do that?
Have you actually watched the video ?????
@@HomeTheatreEngineering Oops, my apologies, I hadn't seen it all, and then forgot to delete my question afterwards.
@@erod9088 :-)
Man I wish I could afford one😥😥😅😂
It's just to bad that they are twice the price of a lumagen
No they are not. The Extreme is more expensive but it is 8k capable and has a few other tricks up it’s sleeve. The Pro which is more like an equivalent is only a bit more expensive than a lumagen. One of the amazing advantages with MadVR is that with the clients approval I can log in and help support troubleshoot or train the client from anywhere in the world and actually see on my screen the same image they are seeing. The lumagen has no network capability at all. The increased power and flexibility of this plus almost instant firmware updates plus simple automation and a host of other capabilities means you are getting much more in terms of flexibility and power. Don’t get me wrong I still love Lumagen they process video brilliantly but when it comes to sheer operability, connectivity and functionality there simple is no comparison.
@@HomeTheatreEngineering of course they are more expensive a lumagen 4242 is about 5k and the envy pro is 10k. If not please let me know where a I can buy a madvr envy pro
@@peakoil-ko5oq Hang on you can’t compare a lower priced or spec’d Lumagen at all with a MadVR Pro for the very reasons stated earlier and more. But for us here (in Aus) a 4242 is about $12k and the Envy Pro is about $14-$15k (advertised prices). That’s not double! But again the lower priced Lumagens are great value and do a great job they just don’t have the features of the MadVR. So comparing them is not that simple. They are different beasts but certainly for us not double the price.