He (Helgstrand) was speaking danish, he is also danish, and he did say , or at least that’s what it sounds like, that to the Casse-Kruth woman who is riding.
To be fair his face isn’t showing in the vid but people who know his voice says it’s him. And also Danish is damn hard to understand even though related to my native tongue Swedish, but danish people are saying he is telling her to give the horse a “good one” ie harder whack.
@@andreakarlsson7927 Yeah I would still say it’s all alleged claims but it is pretty damning to him if she was known to train with him and it sounds like his voice. Tbh, even without that, I find it really hard to believe he had no idea what was going on at his own farm during such an extended period of time / that none of the tactics represent what he condones but the more proof the better because people try to defend the worst things in this industry
@@Milestone-Equestrian I agree with you on all accounts. The claim to not know about how horses were trained at his own yard I do not believe even for a nano second.
@@Milestone-EquestrianI believe I read an article in a danish newspaper about a week ago where he apparently indicated that, yes, it was him. But, yeah, until we have absolute confirmation it’s best to say it’s pretty dang unacceptable training; telling someone to “give it a couple of good whacks!”
One person shouldn't be the face of horse abuse, much like how one person isn't the face of horse welfare. It's a community effort. In dressage specifically, it comes down to the FEI judges and the power they hold in their biases.
I agree. I think people don’t hold the trainers nearly accountable enough. As a young teen I rode under an instructor that I really looked up to. She told us to whip the horse on the shoulder if he refused to jump or speed up. If he continued to misbehave, whip harder on the hind end, as in raise the whip above your head and slam down on the flank and keep going harder until he complies. I trusted the instructor so I thought it was okay, even though I was uncomfortable. I rode like that for years until covid shut down the stables. I never went back.
Yeah my instructors told me to hit my horse with the crop on the rear end just before a jump if he wasn’t hitting those jumps, or if he was being stubborn. I did little smacks. Feel like shit looking back, so now I just spend time doing groundwork and not riding him because he’s here with me, not for me! If you care about someone, you should never hit them. If they want to jump, they will.
Unfortunately, I do have to say that the system encourages the trainers to do that. Instructors are paid for a time slot. The rider (or the rider’s parents) is paying them to get results in that time slot, usually “practice jumping” for jumpers lmao. But now you’re all tacked up, you’ve paid for the session, and you’re warming up, and big guy just doesn’t wanna. He’s not in the mood. Doesn’t move, spins in a circle, backs up instead of forward, dodges the ground poles. He’s like, not today. But the parents and rider want results, on their schedule, not the horse’s. If the trainer doesn’t get the horse to do what the rider wants, in the time frame given, they’re gonna lose that customer. Not because they’re a bad trainer, but because the rider and the parents think horses are robots, and that the trainer just isn’t pressing the right buttons. When in reality, horses have feelings and moods and desires. And you gotta work with them! So it’s either lose these customers, or tell the rider to hit the horse. Because pain is a motivator, and it works! So I’m not sure blaming the trainers is actually going to fix the problem. The people paying the trainers need a reason to pay for genuine horsemanship, not just results. The competitions are the main problem, in my opinion. Followed by the riders (or their benefactors). Followed by the trainers. Because be real, if all the trainers stopped training and found an ethical job, the riders would still hit their horses, because they still want that money and prestige the competitions offer.
@@Donna_Horses_Cats the problem is even to the layman what Charlotte did looked very wrong so her sponsors and the sport in general had no choice. Sacrificial lamb, scapegoat and thrown under the bus make it sound like she was in some way innocent, whereas in reality she’s thrown herself under the bus. So much talent, what a waste.
Carl Hester really had me rolling my eyes, like he didn't teach her everything she knows and does and he himself hasn't been caught mistreating horses 🙄
Hold all these abusers accountable! Charlotte deserves to be held accountable, though. I don't feel one bit sorry for her. Her trying to cover other trainers' abuse doesn't make her any better in my eyes.
The change has to come from above. FEI has to make new programs, where the riders will only be rewarded for horses welfare❤ It will take years to change.
It does not matter how long it take. It is important that it happens. Not only regarding riding, but also how the horses are kept. They have to have at least temporarily direct contact to other horses and spend their in the pasture. Horses do not care about stylish horsestalls, they are herd animals. They usually are kept single, at least during the time of their active career. Which is equally as wrong as forcing them into service when they are not ready for the task. The FEI should check with their top-athletes that their are guidelines are actually adhered to. The keeping of the athlete horse has to be correct even at the risk of injury.
This text suggests an important point. I was told that forcing a horse too immature to collect is wrong because their back needs time to develop for them to collect. I don't know much about dressage training, but this makes sense. I do know that the Spanish Riding School gives stallions years to develop. They stress using patience.
Totally agree like hell Carl Hester didn't know what was going on . I've realised over the years people will always look after themselves and make sure they're ok and if that means sacrificing someone else so be it. Called human nature
She was thrown under the bus to protect the dressage brand; Charlotte had many detractors who knew this day of reckoning would dawn and were probably happy to drive the bus.
I'm with you there. Though I do think Charlotte (like many of her ilk) deserve accountability, it is sickening to hear these hypocrites and animal abusers masking their own crimes when they may even be worse culprits than she is ( just not caught under the global spotlight because most of the public don't follow equestrian events except in the Olympics).
Very well said. There is no way to condone her behaviour; however, as for the others who have come forth it is likely they have done the same thing - or worse as you say. Gypsy Equestrian done an excellent Olympic reaction video and it hit the nail on the head on all three phases, I especially liked the line "some of this tack looks like medieval torture devices. You'd think at this high of a level they'd have less harsh tack, not more!"
As usual I totally agree, and always learn new information from you Shelby. You have been talking about this for YEARS, and now all of a sudden people are jumping on board, and yes, casting stones so no one looks at them!
Your video is, as always, well spoken and true. Charlotte's abuse of her horse, caught on film, will hopefully create more change in the industry. She will hopefully never do it again. It has cost her immensely. Her techniques were clearly accepted by those in her immediate circle, which only enforced her behavior.
Agreed scapegoat. It's not right. She needs to be accountable but so does the rest of the guilty parties. The change needs to be from the top and the marks need to change. This is bigger than Charlotte. If she even has a sliver of the person so many thought she was within her hopefully she does take the opportunity to speak for the horses.
Thank you for this!! I have been saying this from day one!! I don't support the action but understand. Just look at someone who can't get a horse in a trailer. You know the whip has come out. How about the electric jumping boots or scorging in saddlebreds? How about shipping horses to Canada and Mexico for meat? We have to change the safety for horses. I support Charlotte, not the incident. Look at ourselves first.
Abusing a horse like Dujardin did is not a "learned behavior", everyone can think for themselves as to what is right or wrong, they're adults. If people working with a trainer see abuse, and continue with this trainer, that is their decision and not learned behavior, that means they are OK with that abuse.
Totally agree. I never get tired of reminding people, that almost all of us were at this point sometime in the past and oftentimes had to figure out for ourselves what is right and wrong. No need to defend people in the professional horse world just because they're what? Rich?
I’m sorry, but I must totally disagree. It has been shown in many psychological experiments, that it is only too easygoing to desensitise, otherwise nice kindly people, to not only ignore, but actually participate in, increasingly abusive behaviour. All it requires, is that the people that you trust or admire to tell you that such behaviour is perfectly ok, that it is done by ‘everybody’ , that you will never achieve excellence in your field if you don’t use all the methods that have resulted in success. This applies to equestrian sports, as well as the controls and interrogation of prisoners.
@@oldharpydisguised709 Absolut😢, auch Mensch ist Säugetier, und er ist ebenso wie alle anderen relativ leicht zu konditionieren. Die De-Konditionierung, ist weit aus schwieriger. Danke für diesen Kommentar !
You took the words right out of my thoughts, that she was being made a scapegoat. I thought the same thing & had the same reaction to all the harsh reactions to her video that was leaked. We all have made mistakes in handling horses. Thankfully horses are very forgiving of stupid mistakes by us & others if corrected in time. Your new old house looks like it could have fabulous wood floors with refinishing. For us when we moved to our present farm 25 years ago, moving the horses was the easy part.Nothing heavier & more difficult to move about & load than household stuff! Our poor truck & trailer most of the time had 8,400# on each trip. It took us a whole month to move everything just 1 county away. Drove 3,000 miles making a round trip every other day or so moving to our present farm here just outside Dayton, Oregon. Always have mud in winter here in the NW! There`s no escape. Not even for those friends we know who live on sloping hilly ground.
I am sort of surprised that I have not heard anyone else that has taken lessons from her or audited her session has come forward and said yes they saw her do this too.
I am sure far more competitive trainers train horses in the same or similar ways. I agree wholly and feel sorry for her too. It’s a shame that people are so fickle and prepared to throw anyone under the bus to save themselves. X
I don't even like the look of her, the closeup on her videos. Fiendish eyes. Well capable of such behaviour. Bring on the Working Equitation, with natural carriage, and the expertise of the Portuguese, who seem not to be involved in much formal dressage. They work with ears pricked, not a flicker of resistance.
I agree with you. But it's not only happening in recent times and it's not just "the industry" or upper levels....no no....I've witnessed things like that (and far worse) back in the 1980ies in a normal riding stable with quite a few ambitious horse owners with a huge ego. They used wooden bars clunking against the horses legs while he was in mid-jump in order to make him jump higher the next time, when not jumping they were almost always riding with draw reins with the horses head well beyond the vertical, verging on rollkur. Mind you, - it wasn't only in this stable but also in the barns of their cronies. Example: once a particular horse was very uncooperative and made a fool of one of the riders and the others who watched this laughed at him, so when he put his horse back in his stall he took the whip with him and gave him a thrashing (!) Why didn't I say anything? Well I was only just 14 and so many people did things like that I didn't really know to whom I should talk about it except others of my age and attitude... Apart from that....how many horses of non-professionals do you know who show bald spots on their sides from spurs or who have stomach issues or kissing spines from stress caused by ignorants who ride on no level...?
I'm with you about Hester.. she was his prodigy..it was HIS barn..there is no way he didn't know..we know what's going on in a barn that is ours..understand you saying you feel for her cuz everyone is throwing her understand the bus but then the people that did that have their own issues. They should have cleaned their own trash up before dumping on her
I do genuinely think this has to do with sexism in the community and how we are FAR more likely to collectively witch hunt women over men when it comes to this stuff. Far easier to blast a female trainer than to recognized she was taught all of this by an older male trainer who seems to slip right through any criticism all the time. I still do not necessarily feel bad for her, as she's very much a part of this and an abusive rider herself regardless of her past, but I also think that there's an obvious level of hatred we throw at female trainers even when we all know they learned from leading men in the industry who they themselves never felt comfortable questioning. I still think she's pretty awful to have done this, but yeah, it's super revealing how we put women on pedestals in the sport and then lose our shit when they turn out to be as abusive as the men who taught them/raised them, even though we don't seem to get mad at those men themselves when many of them are far more self aware and know they can get away with whatever they want. Def why there's also a lot of SA in the sport.
Thank you for your video. I think I heard that Hegstrand also owns her horse Wendy that she rode in the Olympics. The FEI could make some rule changes as in blue tongue elimination just like blood is elimination. Also require horses to stay at certain levels for certain amount of time so they can't be rushed through the levels and require judges to deduct 1 point for being behind the bit. These are some off the top of my head ideas.
A very well thought out video. I always thought it would be something in the training methods that would trip up Charlotte and Carl but the pure malevolence in the whipping was truly shocking.
The one who took the video of Charlotte was laughing during the entirety of the video. There are many in the industry who use the same methods as Charlotte, unfortunately she was targeted, more for her success in the horse world than anything else, the horse industry is very competitive and cut throat.
I definitely do not feel sorry for Charlotte. She was a very highly respected and admired person, believed by many to be a gentle trainer and rider of very talented horses at the highest levels of the equine sports world. If the video had not exposed her we would still be deceived by her. I don’t believe that even this exposure will “cure” her. You either have the heart to do no harm or you don’t. As a born horse crazy child, born and raised in the city with very limited access to horses, when I watched a western movie and witnessed the coarse handling of the horses with the harsh bits, uneducated riders, I knew in my heart that there was a much better way of treating and riding horses than they were doing. My first and foremost instinct with horses when I was able to be involved with them was gentleness and love. “Horses don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care.” - Pat Parelli
I presume you don't yourself pay for animal abuse and eat them. The abuse is horrific. Would be very hypocritical of you supporting that and screaming animal abuse here.
Okay but I think a lot of it comes down to education too and the desire to learn kinder methods. "You don't know what you don't know you don't know" - Warwick Schiller.
Thank you for such an articulate summary of the issues. Problems in the dressage world are no different from those in other horse sports, except perhaps in the level of hypocrisy. There is much more talk about putting the horse first in dressage than in many other horse sports. Then, when you go to shows and see the actions of the riders, the hypocrisy is apparent. Many years ago, when I began learning about dressage from reading, I was shocked when I went to my first show and saw people see-sawing on their horses mouth with nosebands so tight there was no escape I decided that that was not the world for me. I still try to learn dressage, but I am very careful to only read, watch, or listen to those people I believe have moral integrity. I have walked out of more than one clinic I was auditing when I saw unacceptable trainer and or rider behavior. I always try to audit before I ride with someone, and the few times I have not done so led to regrets. Thank you again for speaking out. You are so on point. The only thing I think you might have emphasized more is how money drives bad behavior in all horse sports, as in other aspects of life.
I won’t excuse CDJ behaviour in the infamous video, I will say, the women responsible for the video, the horse and the student in that video are infamous in Australia, so much so, we forced them out of the industry, I even have first hand experience of that horse, and I can say with 100% confidence that horse has suffered years of abuse in the hands of the owner and became extremely dangerous needing to be sent forward for everyone’s safety. This does not mean it “needed to be hit” it does mean it should have been tactfully sent forward with loose reins. If Shelby has not seen the other footage of that horse, I can send the link.
I’d be interested to see other videos of that horse, the fact that the person filming was laughing definitely made me think that they weren’t any better
I'm English and I think we as a country have always been a bit smug towards other nations. We think we have the best welfare/training methods etc, so I do believe throwing Charlotte under the bus was a knee jerk reaction because we're English and ever so polite and kind, we don't do that sort of thing. Except obviously we do 😢. I do hope she receives a fitting punishment and is given time/space to learn and move forwards. She isn't the only one and unfortunately there are worse out there. Change HAS to come from the top down or we will continue to have these discussions for the foreseeable future.
We need to encourage Charlotte to come back from this in a strong and welfare positive way. She has the potential to be a new leader on her level if she was able to leverage the general public opinion against the toxic peers out there.
Andreas Helgstrand was the voice in the Carina Cassøe Kruth video. He is Danish and speaking Danish not German. He said give the horse a hard wack. Charlottes video was not filmed on Carls yard. There are multiple videos of Isabell Werth warming up with Rollkur. Of course she supports Andreas , he gave her the ride on Wendy de Fontaine. I definately don't agree with Charlottes method on that video but i do see what she was trying to achieve. She wanted the horse to reach further under under with his hind legs. The horse had 4 protection bandages on , Rich parents expect her to achieve miracles with their children and quickly. I am pretty sure Charlotte will take a long hard look at herself now and change. . You speak a lot of truth in your " rant "
The video of Charlotte wasn’t filmed on his yard but how comfortable she was behaving that way implies a learned history of doing so, which I find it hard to believe he never had any idea she used harshness in training.
@@Milestone-Equestrian Stop trying to cause more trouble with no proof. I hope you don't pay for animal cruelty and eat them. If so you have no right to call abuse when you support it yourself.
If they want to remove injury to competition horses, it has to start with the competitions. Beginner to Expert, disqualify, score it against them, something. Whether it’s in the ring, or the warm up area. There’s cameras they use in sport to see everything, a bead of sweat even. Surly they can set something up to check for blue tongues, or hyperflexion, tight rein. They could have a light system, to warn riders they incurred a penalty, so many, disqualify, once is enough, but you have to give riders a chance to alter how they’re riding. They could watch for training methods in the warm up area. Check the tack, to make sure these horses are comfortable, and are correctly tacked, before they even walk in the ring, maybe make some tack illegal. If the FEI has to start scoring correctly, I don’t care who they are. Yes the small events might not be able to afford all of this this, then they’ll need people to watch for the same, they will not care who is performing. If they do, different things will disappear, because then it’s not worth it. But when it’s almost impossible to win without injuring horses, most will do it, and not care, they want to win after all. Yes, what one person did was wrong, but it’s not that one persons fault for every rider or trainer, this person isn’t even in charge of the FEI. Even if they charged her, or imprisoned her. It’s not going to stop any of it. Except maybe make sure nobody records training sessions, though I think most will have already started doing so, just so they aren’t the next Charlotte. If it did, nobody would be sent to jail, or we’d need police. It’s amazing how only a less than a handful of people have been caught, but it’s almost through every stable. Who did they upset, and what did the others do not to.
I do hope some people can change their ways, and those who refuse have their horses taken away. It is possible to change. I think it might be harder for adults, than it is for kids and teens, to realize they've been doing things wrong, but it isn't impossible.
I don’t feel bad for charlotte. I think the case of charlotte is important example to other riders that no matter how big name you are, your career will still take hit if you get caught abusing horses. That being said, I certainly agree that uproar should’ve not reached only charlotte, but much wider target including FEI.
I am just a few minutes into this video, and I think none of us have enough information to make many judgements especially relative to other people...I heard Carl comment just has you would expect that he said, it is a very difficult moment, that he was shocked at what he saw but never saw her train that way in his yard...as well, he said she has a very young child and no one know how gravely this is effecting her, paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact words...he said he hopes she is strong enough to recover from this but also said she has had mental health issues in her past and he hopes she is going to make it out of this...I am paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact words, but apparently his voice was very emotional. He clearly cares deeply for Charlotte how could he not. I also feel very sorry for Charlotte as I don't think she has the personality of a grave and consistent offender. I am certain she is taking it all to heart and will not let it happen again. In dealing with this kind of thing there are different types of people...but, moreover everyone of us has made mistakes...we also need to be human tone down the righteousness and judgement relative to this topic...especially regarding dressage...the dressage offense are not on the same level as something like Big LIck for example, which is down right off the charts cruelty to animals. For all the younger folks out there...just tone down the righteousness...keep bringing pressure but allow things to be discussed without a lot of judgement because otherwise things are not going to change. Just hating on something doesn't change it, that if fact makes it worse...cleaning things up requires intelligent strategy, read 'The Art of War'.
Thank you for this video - absolutely hits the nail on the head. I came out of riding a number of years ago because this is very normalised in competitive equestrian sport. Charlotte is a scapegoat and I actually find it even more disappointing that sports people are not owning up to the wider issues and are just denying it is happening it’s 😢
I think this type of training technique is widely used at this level. I don't think any animal should be trained this way. I have to question the timing of this video being released. Certainly Charlotte's ban from participating in the Olympics was a "gift" for the other people/horses that did compete.
Charlotte was on video . Many others are not .. So pointing a finger , many of them probably do the same . They don't care about the horse's wellfare , but for money and results .
@@petrahartog5934 in helgstrands case, they got way more damning video of his whole operation over an extended period of time so IMO it’s a more accurate representation of what was actually going on and yet it seems to have blown over with a lot less hatred directed at him, particularly from people within the dressage world / his peers. He has more $ and influence so I’m sure there’s why but it’s still worth remarking on in my opinion.
@@Milestone-Equestrian The Olympics were used to expose Charlotte and as it was in the worlds spotlight it got a lot off news coverage . I read a lot about Helgstads " training " methods too . But this was not in competition . And he sure did get hate and comments too. But a lot is unseen and unknown , and it worries me most that horses are abused for the reasons mentiond before
Sadly I don't think it was the first time Charlotte du Jardin had she abused horses, very disappointing, i am off liking dressage because so much abuse from different riders have come out, very distressing. Don't think she deserves any se on chance.
Well - now that the "whistle blower" has been exposed - then it all becomes clearer than a winter stream in the mountains .....! Just as many of us thought.
It’s those who make the rules in the big competitions that could make the biggest difference. You should *not* be able to win olympic gold when your horse suffers blue tongue when you exit the ring. Period!
I wonder what Charlotte is doing now . She may have lost her livelihood. May I just ask for an opinion on the opposite of rollkur. The American western "pleasure" horse show classes looks just as bad to me.
Charlotte has many millions in the bank. Her main sponsor who co owns many of her horses Peter Belshaw has been phographed with her since the video came out giving her a hug.
On a different topic, have you looked into the issue of horse auction, transport to slaughter and how horses are slaughtered now that we do not have horse slaughter in the US? What we observe in revealing videos of training abuse pales in comparison to issues surrounding horse slaughter in the US.
I have but there’s already some really great organizations involved with helping them and making changes there so I don’t want to disband from this movement that has less people involved in promoting change due to the belief that horses at the top levels aren’t being abused.
Nobody in the horse world can understand this video or could possibly justify it because it does not make sense. I am aware that most riders and trainers still use punishmet in their training. But even or especially punishment needs to be used in an intelligent way so the horse can understand what it is supposed to do and get a chance to avoid the pain. Why on earth would you punish the horse once, then see that it doesn‘t work, then blame the whip („not hard enough“ quote) and do that AGAIN for like 24 times. WITHOUT any result. So no, no one would „train“ a horse that way. Not even people who do use punishment would justify this video. This is abuse that you don‘t see every day because on top of that it is just stupid and arrogant. As a dog and horse owner I am sad to see that our positive reinforcement training with the dogs has not reached the horse world and is lightyears away. ☹️
Because of these horse abusers to include those who abuse horses who don't compete in any discipline, they are putting out articles suggesting an end horse ownership/riding. I knew this would happen. Those who abuse horses need to be dealt with individually. I have 3 horses of my own and care for a rescue horse. They come before me. My horses were former Amish horses and live a wonderful life. I ride bitness and never use any device to hurt me horses. I know there are many wonderful horse people out there who love their horses as much as I love mine.
Is the FEI going to reform? I doubt it. Maybe the answer is for people to opt out of the corrupt world of competition and for adults to teach children to enjoy horses for their own sake. Why isn't the joy of riding trail the pinnacle? Partnership with your horse in the natural world ....
I don't feel sorry for charlotte, but she's not the only one. Even in the olympics GP there were some problems, and in some cases the judges did'nt said nothing. I saw your last video about some problems in the olympics.😊
I watched the Olympic show jumping and was shocked to see the majority of horses who make exaggerated pick ups with their hind legs. Rapping is. SOOOOOO obviously normal home training.
As always, Shelby Dennis, you keep everyone informed and thinking for themselves rather than going with the crowd. I agree, SHE'S definitely being made the scapegoat here. As much as I dislike her video and the timing of the videos release, I think even if it HADN'T been an Olympic year, this still would have become the "scandal" it has. But it's having MORE attention because it was an Olympic year. And she was the "golden girl", one they expected to win more medals for Team Great Britain. And everyone throwing her under the bus? I'm not surprised by that. Nor should anyone else be. They don't want the attention focused on them. You not only had Helgestrand or the new Denmark rider, but also, in just the last couple of years, you also had Parra exposed for abusing the horses in his care as well. Of course, Carl Hester will distance himself and quickly. But that won't matter. HE will surely be under the microscope for a while. Because Charlotte was his prodigy. He trained HER!! It doesn't surprise me in the least that he would want to distance himself. Even while saying that this wasn't the Charlotte he knew. All this is forcing FEI to uphold some of the rules they've been turning a blind eye to. Hopefully, for the betterment of the sport. No matter which discipline you are riding. Because I've seen riders that just do Show Jumping, come into the arena, and the horse is held so tight it's in the Rollkur position. Your friend, the Retired Paramedic, a Former FEI Judge, and Horse Trainer in Ontario, Canada, Jenn 💖 🇨🇦
A bit late in this but the whistleblower is notorious in Australia for her bad training and treatment of her dressage horses and is the lady laughing in the video. I don;t think she whistleblew out of concern for the horse.
Let's face reality here. I'm 68 years old, I'm straight forward , hard cor honest and I don't play no bull. I say what needs to be said others refuse to. Yes , I'll definitely put it out there, you bet I will. Someone has to have the gust to. Nor is it the people's feeling I actually care about. It these beautiful innocent horses that matter to me most being abused. They don't have a voice, I'll be their voice. Whether it's a horse , dog or any animal. If your hitting an animal regardless of your so called reasons. Claiming your training it. Your guilty of animal abuse . You know for a fact , your abusing that animal , you know IT'S ANIMAL ABUSE . Let's not make any excuses for it . Everyone involved in this is guilty of it , regarding these horses. You know when your abusing an animal. Regardless of how old after 6 yesrs of age. But I also like to acknowledge the fact , that these riders, they learned this behavior from somebody else . Not making any kind of excuse for them , they have none. What I'm getting at , they too learned this behavior from their own trainer's when learning to ride . This behavior goes back as far as people have own horses . There's been great horse owners and of course, just as many bad ones as well. None the less , if you feel bad about doing something you don't feel right in your actions towards any animal. If it doesn't feel right , you know it's not right !!! Everyone knows right from wrong from the time their at least 6 on and definitely older . Yet people continue to ignore their natural born instincts , and not stop doing what they know in their heads and hearts is wrong. And stop their behavior. So , I want to know were is the people's sincere sense of guilt in it ? Peoples claim , oh I did it but learned from it. I felted bad doing it than. But I no longer do it now. That doesn't give you any excuses. You still did it and continue to do so than. Stopping it now doesn't give you a pass . What about the horse you hurt back than ? At that time you did it ? Think they will ever forget or get over the abuse you continue to give them than ? No . Thank you , yes for stopping , but again it gives you no out in your actions. The horse will continue to live with your actions for the rest of their lives. You did them a lot of damage , they'll will 0 continue to suffer from their entire lives. We all know better, we know when we're hurting an animal from the time we're old enough to know right from wrong. And if you feel bad about your actions towards any animal, than you stop doing it right than not later ! That should just be a normal reaction , because you know it's wrong. Why let a Trainer regardless of how well known they are .Or how good their supposedly known to be as a trainer. Why people continue to allow these trainer's to continue to train them when they know their being abusive towards horses ? Knowing full well they are teaching you to abuse your horse ? Are not reporting them in today's world ? When animal abuse is against the law. There is no excuse for it. Nor can anyone say they didn't know. Oh you know when you feel uncomfortable or bad about doing something someone else is telling you to do. That's the first sign somethings definitelys not right. We're even taught this as small children from our parents. Yet these people continue to allow these trainers to teach them what they know for a fact is absolutely wrong . So yes , it making them just as guilty . Because they just continue to carry on with the behavior by not putting a stop it . They know their hurting their animals . They know , so why aren't they not just telling the trainer's , flat out , NO , I won't do it. I will not hit my house as your instructing me to , no it's wrong. Or if young, why aren't you telling your parents what they are teaching you and you feel uncomfortable about it. That you do not want to hit you horse as instructed to do. Or why the parents themselves aren't getting involved. If their at these training sessions with their child or children. Telling the instructor you won't allow them to teach that to their children. They of all people have to definitely know it's wrong. That you rather not have your child do as they are being instructing to do in hurting any horse. You rather find another trainer. Especially older children like teenagers. They know. You can see it also afterwords, when the trainings over. You see the after effects on the horses while grooming them . There definitely isn't any excuse's what so ever in anyone's behavior or actions in any form of animal abuse. None. And the Judges in these shows know full well what's taking place and they're over looking. Which only encourages these riders to continue the abuse. Everyone must be held accountable. Even who's not involved in abusing their horses in these shows. Why ? Because they too know full well , what's taking place , yet keeping their mouth shut . But instead their looking the other way , making them just as guilty. They are actually allowing the horse abuse to continue , by keeping quite. Which is allowing it to continue . Nor them coming forward and telling the world what's taken place. That there is in fact horse abuse taking place with these riders in these shows. That some of the riders are abusing their horses for no other reason than to win. Explaining to the world, than if necessary refuse to continue to compete . If that's what it takes to stop it. Until ithings changes. The riders and Judges knowing what's taken place . But they just keep looking the other way. So these riders can win. It's all about the money not the horses welfare. If you feel uncomfortable when someone tells you to do something. Than why would you than continue and do it anyway? You know it's wrong. So am I'm wrong in saying that these people aren't just as guilty? NO , because in actually they are. Oh one last thing. Now that this is out in the complete open. Why are those that attend these shows still continuing to do so ? If they actually stop attending. No money would be coming in to support the shows. They would end. Contining to do so , knowning what's taken place. These people are just as guilty same as every one else. These shows can't continue if no one went and payed the money to see them. Now could they ? Again let's be realistic here. Everyone needs to be found guilty and everyone be named in it . Until than , it's never going stop. Sorry for the l-o-ng comment. But I had to get it out Let's all be these beautiful horses voices. Since they don't have one. Let the names of these actually horse al riders abusers, along with the Judges names be known publicly. They won't be able to make excuses nor defend their actions. Because theircall actually are guilty. That mush has already just been been proven already. Much respect to this channel.
Please don't. That's what they count on with their gros gaslighting and pathetic lies about it being an error of judgement and not representative of who they are. When it IS who they are and you know it. I've worked among them and they are brutal to their cores. Not just to their horses, but partners and employees as well. Please don't when you know she's at home continuing the abuse as we speak and people are already working behind the scenes to get her back on the scene again shortly as if nothing has happened. Free to continue the abuse and being rewarded for it. And most importantly; please don't as it's insulting to their horses who endured and continue to endure it day in and day out.
Correction CJD has been banned from competing for 6 months by the FEI . And do you know PERSONALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENE AT CJD'S ?? NO YOU DON'T !! SO STOP WITH THE STUPID ACCUSATION'S THAT YOU NO NOTHING ABOUT AND YOU ARE NOT PHYSICALLY THERE JUST GUESSING AT WHAT IS GOING ON LIKE EVRYONE ELSE !!!!!
It’s an insult to the horses and detrimental to reform to maintain the perspective that these people can’t change and go on to prove they can do better. Reform only works with the belief that we can improve
In no way do I condone what Charlotte or the Danish woman or other riders (we all can see the evidence before our noses of incorrect training by the way the horses move and are muscled in competition) BUT I can see how these situations develop in the modern professional world, where everyone is in an echo chamber and under pressure to win in order to keep sponsorship and make a living. Abusive practices get normalised. But it is across the board. Just look at a Western Pleasure Class with horses going with their noses on the ground, often put their by draw reins and tie downs, far too slowly for nature, and in a way that is wholly contrary to the horses natural way of going, no horse moves like that naturally and it causes strain on the animal yet it is now normalised by 40 years ago they went far more naturally) I think change has to come from the top, in all sports and we should all look to ourselves to ask what are we finding pleasant to watch and support. Riders like Charlotte or the average Western Pleasure rider are not wicked people who enjoy abusing animals but rather have lost their way due to many factors and any one of us could end up there if not careful
The video is awful . I shall miss C Dujardins beautiful riding . She is a once in a generation talent and I doubt we will see her again . She was outstanding at the British Dressage convention 23 . I agree with all said and welcome sensible debate on this channel .
I think I get what you’re saying but anyone caught abusing animals doesn’t get my sympathy - I feel sorry for the animals - personally I think the people who have been caught, with irrefutable evidence, should be banned for a lot longer than a year.
Thank you for not running down Charlotte. She is still a great trainer and rider. You do not get the horses, such as Blueberry, by beating on them. This tape was from 4 years ago. Something never mentioned is that horse in the tape had his legs wrapped. I would like for everyone to move on.
👍 👍 👍 Charlotte has a lovely horse called Alive and Kicking. You can see her on aYou Tube videos winning the GP in both Belgium and Germany this year with a completely open frame.
I do not feel sorry for Charlotte. That would be like feeling sorry for a convicted criminal because so many other and worse criminals are still at large. These other abusers are still at large and must be caught and punished. Don't go soft on this.
It’s not going soft to reference the environment that creates people like this. They’re everywhere. I was one of them as a child. People are conditioned to be like this over time and we need to recognize that in order to make a real solid difference otherwise the shame involved is enough of a deterrent that they don’t want to change.
I get what your saying Charlotte has not yet been able to talk about it all etc and sadly everyone hates her. But I bet there are worse people that abuse their horses far far worse. I have to say re you I’m so happy you have moved and hopefully your in a lot nicer and cleaner place because that place you’ve moved from really was a complete shit hole for the horses to live in. Tfs.
@@christinemartindale8715 The place we’ve moved from had mud in the winter but offered 8 acres of engaging field turnout that vastly improved the life of my horses and if you want to continue being happy for me, you can start by not saying something so cruel to the owners of the land. Backhanded comments aren’t actually truly being happy for people so miss me with that and actually be genuine or keep it to yourself if you can’t manage that.
I've tried to remain calm and measured about this whole situation with Charlotte. This event has damaged the Equestrian world terribly and has brought way too many PETA and/or non horse people out of the woodwork who don't even understand that if you are dealing with a breeding Stallion, you may need to use much harsher equipment for control and your safety. We all make mistakes in life and we all make mistakes in training horses. Her life and career is over as far as horses are concerned. To me, that's punishment enough! I believe she should settle on riding and training for her own pleasure and keep away from the public and competition. My heart goes out to her because she is the poster child for many other's brutality. I am rather suspicious of the motives of the person who released all this information and video, "just before the Olympics". Such a "convenient timeline".
It actually was deliberately done . The video was of Charlotte from 4 yrs ago !!! . The person who released the video conveniently right before the Olympics ,is just as complicate in the Abuse act !!!! And ask your self why did the person need to engage a Solicitor after the release of the video ?
A bit tired of this….yes, animal welfare above all else, but I‘ve seen so many poorly-kept, mistreated and badly ridden horses - all owned and ridden by „hobby riders“, but of course, no photographers and media in sight. Is putting on a saddle, a bit not already against the horse‘s interest? Should we ride them at all? If we could ask horses, probably not. Then again, would there still be any horses? And what about dogs on leashes, that are pulled on? And cats that are let outside?And birds in cages? Yes, the judges should reward classic riding and movements, but that ship has sailed since Totilas Yes, there should be strict rules. But this current hysteria is getting out of hand…
@@lottefleck3688 Promoting better welfare in competition and holding those who serve as role models and set the standard for what is good riding helps horse welfare across the board. I never understand the logic of “but what about XYZ welfare issue” because we can care about more than one thing at a time and if you truly believe those issues are more pressing and need immediate attention, there’s absolutely nothing stopping you from advocating yourself.
I had one horse a lesson horse at that that absolutely wanted to be ridden and would break out of his 10?acre field so that someone would ride him. He only did this if he wasn't ridden for a couple of days/weeks. And it wasn't just with me because I got him because his previous owners had the same problem.
I thoroughly agree with you. I do also feel some sympathy for my namesake Charlotte. Riding at the top level like any sport is hard and the discipline required to achieve success is huge. Sure a horse doesn't have a choice but I truly believe most love their work and even understand and enjoy winning a competition. I hunt and even when very tired at the end of a long day I have always found ponies and horses willing to give a little bit more when asked. That's exactly what a human athlete would do to be the best. I hate animal abuse but top dressage horses are some of the most pampered animals on the planet. There are countless millions of people in our world living in worst conditions and in hunger. Horses at the top level have little to complain about frankly by comparison.
A quick additional comment. 'Hysteria' exactly sums up the situation. It is too extreme to class Charlotte's actions as 'animal abuse', they were 'excessive use of the whip'. Cruel, possibly and it also doesn't make them right but I do not believe smacks with a lunge whip can ever compare with general and intentional neglect of an animal. That is truly ghastly and is abuse. Do top riders care for their animals wellbeing? Of course they do, they would be crazy not to if we come down to basics given the value of competition horses let alone anything else. Wanting to win doesn't mean you don't care for your horse or pony. Being a good rider or horse owner doesn't mean you need to replicate 'my little pony' in real life.
@@martinwilby8942 Can you hear yourself? " we eat animals for food " There is no difference cruelty is cruelty. The cruelty to animals you pay for and then eat them is horrific. You don't NEED to support this cruelty.
@@jonjonwp its not about judging me i have done nothing wrong kurt zumer a working class lad was rightly prosecuted for abusing his cat ,however as she is from the other side of the tracks she wont face prosecution
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He (Helgstrand) was speaking danish, he is also danish, and he did say , or at least that’s what it sounds like, that to the Casse-Kruth woman who is riding.
Thank you for clarifying!
To be fair his face isn’t showing in the vid but people who know his voice says it’s him. And also Danish is damn hard to understand even though related to my native tongue Swedish, but danish people are saying he is telling her to give the horse a “good one” ie harder whack.
@@andreakarlsson7927 Yeah I would still say it’s all alleged claims but it is pretty damning to him if she was known to train with him and it sounds like his voice.
Tbh, even without that, I find it really hard to believe he had no idea what was going on at his own farm during such an extended period of time / that none of the tactics represent what he condones but the more proof the better because people try to defend the worst things in this industry
@@Milestone-Equestrian I agree with you on all accounts. The claim to not know about how horses were trained at his own yard I do not believe even for a nano second.
@@Milestone-EquestrianI believe I read an article in a danish newspaper about a week ago where he apparently indicated that, yes, it was him. But, yeah, until we have absolute confirmation it’s best to say it’s pretty dang unacceptable training; telling someone to “give it a couple of good whacks!”
One person shouldn't be the face of horse abuse, much like how one person isn't the face of horse welfare. It's a community effort. In dressage specifically, it comes down to the FEI judges and the power they hold in their biases.
She is one of few that have been caught abusing. Abuse is totally acceptable in most high level equestrian sports. It needs to stop!
The FEI is the main culprit. They reward abuse
I agree. I think people don’t hold the trainers nearly accountable enough. As a young teen I rode under an instructor that I really looked up to. She told us to whip the horse on the shoulder if he refused to jump or speed up. If he continued to misbehave, whip harder on the hind end, as in raise the whip above your head and slam down on the flank and keep going harder until he complies. I trusted the instructor so I thought it was okay, even though I was uncomfortable. I rode like that for years until covid shut down the stables. I never went back.
Yeah my instructors told me to hit my horse with the crop on the rear end just before a jump if he wasn’t hitting those jumps, or if he was being stubborn. I did little smacks. Feel like shit looking back, so now I just spend time doing groundwork and not riding him because he’s here with me, not for me! If you care about someone, you should never hit them. If they want to jump, they will.
Unfortunately, I do have to say that the system encourages the trainers to do that.
Instructors are paid for a time slot. The rider (or the rider’s parents) is paying them to get results in that time slot, usually “practice jumping” for jumpers lmao.
But now you’re all tacked up, you’ve paid for the session, and you’re warming up, and big guy just doesn’t wanna. He’s not in the mood. Doesn’t move, spins in a circle, backs up instead of forward, dodges the ground poles. He’s like, not today.
But the parents and rider want results, on their schedule, not the horse’s. If the trainer doesn’t get the horse to do what the rider wants, in the time frame given, they’re gonna lose that customer. Not because they’re a bad trainer, but because the rider and the parents think horses are robots, and that the trainer just isn’t pressing the right buttons. When in reality, horses have feelings and moods and desires. And you gotta work with them!
So it’s either lose these customers, or tell the rider to hit the horse. Because pain is a motivator, and it works!
So I’m not sure blaming the trainers is actually going to fix the problem. The people paying the trainers need a reason to pay for genuine horsemanship, not just results. The competitions are the main problem, in my opinion. Followed by the riders (or their benefactors). Followed by the trainers. Because be real, if all the trainers stopped training and found an ethical job, the riders would still hit their horses, because they still want that money and prestige the competitions offer.
Exactly. She's the sacrificial lamb, so that the attention is off all the others doing exactly the same thing. Such a bunch of hypocrites.
Yes, that's it exactly. 💯 %!
@@Donna_Horses_Cats the problem is even to the layman what Charlotte did looked very wrong so her sponsors and the sport in general had no choice. Sacrificial lamb, scapegoat and thrown under the bus make it sound like she was in some way innocent, whereas in reality she’s thrown herself under the bus.
So much talent, what a waste.
Carl Hester really had me rolling my eyes, like he didn't teach her everything she knows and does and he himself hasn't been caught mistreating horses 🙄
I personally don't feel bad for Charlotte, BUT. You're absolutely correct that everyone should be facing as much criticism as Charlotte is.
Very true 💯
Hold all these abusers accountable! Charlotte deserves to be held accountable, though. I don't feel one bit sorry for her. Her trying to cover other trainers' abuse doesn't make her any better in my eyes.
The change has to come from above. FEI has to make new programs, where the riders will only be rewarded for horses welfare❤ It will take years to change.
It does not matter how long it take. It is important that it happens. Not only regarding riding, but also how the horses are kept. They have to have at least temporarily direct contact to other horses and spend their in the pasture. Horses do not care about stylish horsestalls, they are herd animals. They usually are kept single, at least during the time of their active career. Which is equally as wrong as forcing them into service when they are not ready for the task.
The FEI should check with their top-athletes that their are guidelines are actually adhered to. The keeping of the athlete horse has to be correct even at the risk of injury.
This text suggests an important point. I was told that forcing a horse too immature to collect is wrong because their back needs time to develop for them to collect. I don't know much about dressage training, but this makes sense. I do know that the Spanish Riding School gives stallions years to develop. They stress using patience.
@@SandraOrtmann1976absolutely!
@@gretafields4706Maybe but their training methods are horrible to watch.
People throwing Charlotte under the bus without a second thought, that were supposed to be her friends, is pretty appalling. And also very telling.
If she didn't abuse horses no one could throw her under the bus. Plain and simple
@@Lealea64 Yes of course, but that’s not the point I was trying to make.
Totally agree like hell Carl Hester didn't know what was going on . I've realised over the years people will always look after themselves and make sure they're ok and if that means sacrificing someone else so be it. Called human nature
@@Lealea64the point is, they didnt throw her under the bus for abusing horses but so they wont be caught doing the same
She was thrown under the bus to protect the dressage brand; Charlotte had many detractors who knew this day of reckoning would dawn and were probably happy to drive the bus.
I'm with you there. Though I do think Charlotte (like many of her ilk) deserve accountability, it is sickening to hear these hypocrites and animal abusers masking their own crimes when they may even be worse culprits than she is ( just not caught under the global spotlight because most of the public don't follow equestrian events except in the Olympics).
Very well said. There is no way to condone her behaviour; however, as for the others who have come forth it is likely they have done the same thing - or worse as you say. Gypsy Equestrian done an excellent Olympic reaction video and it hit the nail on the head on all three phases, I especially liked the line "some of this tack looks like medieval torture devices. You'd think at this high of a level they'd have less harsh tack, not more!"
As usual I totally agree, and always learn new information from you Shelby. You have been talking about this for YEARS, and now all of a sudden people are jumping on board, and yes, casting stones so no one looks at them!
Your video is, as always, well spoken and true. Charlotte's abuse of her horse, caught on film, will hopefully create more change in the industry. She will hopefully never do it again. It has cost her immensely. Her techniques were clearly accepted by those in her immediate circle, which only enforced her behavior.
As Temple Grandin says. This is where bad has become normal ‼️
Agreed scapegoat. It's not right. She needs to be accountable but so does the rest of the guilty parties.
The change needs to be from the top and the marks need to change.
This is bigger than Charlotte.
If she even has a sliver of the person so many thought she was within her hopefully she does take the opportunity to speak for the horses.
Thank you for speaking out.
Thank you for this!! I have been saying this from day one!! I don't support the action but understand. Just look at someone who can't get a horse in a trailer. You know the whip has come out. How about the electric jumping boots or scorging in saddlebreds? How about shipping horses to Canada and Mexico for meat? We have to change the safety for horses. I support Charlotte, not the incident. Look at ourselves first.
Abusing a horse like Dujardin did is not a "learned behavior", everyone can think for themselves as to what is right or wrong, they're adults. If people working with a trainer see abuse, and continue with this trainer, that is their decision and not learned behavior, that means they are OK with that abuse.
She knew better and was mature enough to know she was being abusive I don’t feel sorry for her.
Totally agree. I never get tired of reminding people, that almost all of us were at this point sometime in the past and oftentimes had to figure out for ourselves what is right and wrong. No need to defend people in the professional horse world just because they're what? Rich?
I’m sorry, but I must totally disagree. It has been shown in many psychological experiments, that it is only too easygoing to desensitise, otherwise nice kindly people, to not only ignore, but actually participate in, increasingly abusive behaviour. All it requires, is that the people that you trust or admire to tell you that such behaviour is perfectly ok, that it is done by ‘everybody’ , that you will never achieve excellence in your field if you don’t use all the methods that have resulted in success. This applies to equestrian sports, as well as the controls and interrogation of prisoners.
@@oldharpydisguised709
Absolut😢, auch Mensch ist Säugetier, und er ist ebenso wie alle anderen relativ leicht zu konditionieren.
Die De-Konditionierung, ist weit aus schwieriger.
Danke für diesen Kommentar !
I agree that it has to start with judges penalizing tension more, I think it would be more effective than anything the fei can do
You took the words right out of my thoughts, that she was being made a scapegoat. I thought the same thing & had the same reaction to all the harsh reactions to her video that was leaked. We all have made mistakes in handling horses. Thankfully horses are very forgiving of stupid mistakes by us & others if corrected in time. Your new old house looks like it could have fabulous wood floors with refinishing. For us when we moved to our present farm 25 years ago, moving the horses was the easy part.Nothing heavier & more difficult to move about & load than household stuff! Our poor truck & trailer most of the time had 8,400# on each trip. It took us a whole month to move everything just 1 county away. Drove 3,000 miles making a round trip every other day or so moving to our present farm here just outside Dayton, Oregon. Always have mud in winter here in the NW! There`s no escape. Not even for those friends we know who live on sloping hilly ground.
I am sort of surprised that I have not heard anyone else that has taken lessons from her or audited her session has come forward and said yes they saw her do this too.
I am sure far more competitive trainers train horses in the same or similar ways. I agree wholly and feel sorry for her too. It’s a shame that people are so fickle and prepared to throw anyone under the bus to save themselves. X
I don't even like the look of her, the closeup on her videos. Fiendish eyes. Well capable of such behaviour. Bring on the Working Equitation, with natural carriage, and the expertise of the Portuguese, who seem not to be involved in much formal dressage. They work with ears pricked, not a flicker of resistance.
I agree with you. But it's not only happening in recent times and it's not just "the industry" or upper levels....no no....I've witnessed things like that (and far worse) back in the 1980ies in a normal riding stable with quite a few ambitious horse owners with a huge ego. They used wooden bars clunking against the horses legs while he was in mid-jump in order to make him jump higher the next time, when not jumping they were almost always riding with draw reins with the horses head well beyond the vertical, verging on rollkur. Mind you, - it wasn't only in this stable but also in the barns of their cronies. Example: once a particular horse was very uncooperative and made a fool of one of the riders and the others who watched this laughed at him, so when he put his horse back in his stall he took the whip with him and gave him a thrashing (!) Why didn't I say anything? Well I was only just 14 and so many people did things like that I didn't really know to whom I should talk about it except others of my age and attitude...
Apart from that....how many horses of non-professionals do you know who show bald spots on their sides from spurs or who have stomach issues or kissing spines from stress caused by ignorants who ride on no level...?
I'm with you about Hester.. she was his prodigy..it was HIS barn..there is no way he didn't know..we know what's going on in a barn that is ours..understand you saying you feel for her cuz everyone is throwing her understand the bus but then the people that did that have their own
issues. They should have cleaned their own trash up before dumping on her
The video was not on Carls property or his stables.
That wasn’t his barn… get informed before you say anything about Carl
I do genuinely think this has to do with sexism in the community and how we are FAR more likely to collectively witch hunt women over men when it comes to this stuff. Far easier to blast a female trainer than to recognized she was taught all of this by an older male trainer who seems to slip right through any criticism all the time.
I still do not necessarily feel bad for her, as she's very much a part of this and an abusive rider herself regardless of her past, but I also think that there's an obvious level of hatred we throw at female trainers even when we all know they learned from leading men in the industry who they themselves never felt comfortable questioning.
I still think she's pretty awful to have done this, but yeah, it's super revealing how we put women on pedestals in the sport and then lose our shit when they turn out to be as abusive as the men who taught them/raised them, even though we don't seem to get mad at those men themselves when many of them are far more self aware and know they can get away with whatever they want. Def why there's also a lot of SA in the sport.
Thank you for your video. I think I heard that Hegstrand also owns her horse Wendy that she rode in the Olympics. The FEI could make some rule changes as in blue tongue elimination just like blood is elimination. Also require horses to stay at certain levels for certain amount of time so they can't be rushed through the levels and require judges to deduct 1 point for being behind the bit. These are some off the top of my head ideas.
Wendy is not owned by Helgstrand. She belongs to Bolette Wandt and Madeleine Winter-Schulze.
@@jessicawestphal4119 Andreas gave Isabell the ride on Wendy before Madeleine bought her.
A very well thought out video. I always thought it would be something in the training methods that would trip up Charlotte and Carl but the pure malevolence in the whipping was truly shocking.
Is that your new place? Very interested in hearing your take. EDIT: As thoughtful a discussion as I have come to expect from you.
The one who took the video of Charlotte was laughing during the entirety of the video.
There are many in the industry who use the same methods as Charlotte, unfortunately she was targeted, more for her success in the horse world than anything else, the horse industry is very competitive and cut throat.
I definitely do not feel sorry for Charlotte. She was a very highly respected and admired person, believed by many to be a gentle trainer and rider of very talented horses at the highest levels of the equine sports world. If the video had not exposed her we would still be deceived by her. I don’t believe that even this exposure will “cure” her. You either have the heart to do no harm or you don’t.
As a born horse crazy child, born and raised in the city with very limited access to horses, when I watched a western movie and witnessed the coarse handling of the horses with the harsh bits, uneducated riders, I knew in my heart that there was a much better way of treating and riding horses than they were doing. My first and foremost instinct with horses when I was able to be involved with them was gentleness and love. “Horses don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care.” - Pat Parelli
I presume you don't yourself pay for animal abuse and eat them. The abuse is horrific. Would be very hypocritical of you supporting that and screaming animal abuse here.
Okay but I think a lot of it comes down to education too and the desire to learn kinder methods. "You don't know what you don't know you don't know" - Warwick Schiller.
Thank you for such an articulate summary of the issues. Problems in the dressage world are no different from those in other horse sports, except perhaps in the level of hypocrisy. There is much more talk about putting the horse first in dressage than in many other horse sports. Then, when you go to shows and see the actions of the riders, the hypocrisy is apparent. Many years ago, when I began learning about dressage from reading, I was shocked when I went to my first show and saw people see-sawing on their horses mouth with nosebands so tight there was no escape I decided that that was not the world for me. I still try to learn dressage, but I am very careful to only read, watch, or listen to those people I believe have moral integrity. I have walked out of more than one clinic I was auditing when I saw unacceptable trainer and or rider behavior. I always try to audit before I ride with someone, and the few times I have not done so led to regrets.
Thank you again for speaking out. You are so on point. The only thing I think you might have emphasized more is how money drives bad behavior in all horse sports, as in other aspects of life.
I won’t excuse CDJ behaviour in the infamous video, I will say, the women responsible for the video, the horse and the student in that video are infamous in Australia, so much so, we forced them out of the industry, I even have first hand experience of that horse, and I can say with 100% confidence that horse has suffered years of abuse in the hands of the owner and became extremely dangerous needing to be sent forward for everyone’s safety. This does not mean it “needed to be hit” it does mean it should have been tactfully sent forward with loose reins. If Shelby has not seen the other footage of that horse, I can send the link.
I’d be interested to see other videos of that horse, the fact that the person filming was laughing definitely made me think that they weren’t any better
Perhaps there IS more to come out of this unfortunate affair then.
I'm English and I think we as a country have always been a bit smug towards other nations. We think we have the best welfare/training methods etc, so I do believe throwing Charlotte under the bus was a knee jerk reaction because we're English and ever so polite and kind, we don't do that sort of thing. Except obviously we do 😢. I do hope she receives a fitting punishment and is given time/space to learn and move forwards. She isn't the only one and unfortunately there are worse out there. Change HAS to come from the top down or we will continue to have these discussions for the foreseeable future.
We need to encourage Charlotte to come back from this in a strong and welfare positive way. She has the potential to be a new leader on her level if she was able to leverage the general public opinion against the toxic peers out there.
Andreas Helgstrand was the voice in the Carina Cassøe Kruth video. He is Danish and speaking Danish not German. He said give the horse a hard wack.
Charlottes video was not filmed on Carls yard.
There are multiple videos of Isabell Werth warming up with Rollkur. Of course she supports Andreas , he gave her the ride on Wendy de Fontaine.
I definately don't agree with Charlottes method on that video but i do see what she was trying to achieve. She wanted the horse to reach further under under with his hind legs. The horse had 4 protection bandages on , Rich parents expect her to achieve miracles with their children and quickly.
I am pretty sure Charlotte will take a long hard look at herself now and change. .
You speak a lot of truth in your " rant "
The video of Charlotte wasn’t filmed on his yard but how comfortable she was behaving that way implies a learned history of doing so, which I find it hard to believe he never had any idea she used harshness in training.
@@Milestone-Equestrian Stop trying to cause more trouble with no proof.
I hope you don't pay for animal cruelty and eat them. If so you have no right to call abuse when you support it yourself.
@@jonjonwp so nobody who eats meat should report or comment on animal abuse?
@@michelleh7615 Nobody who supports, pays for and eats animal abuse should call out others for animal abuse. Totally hypocritical.
Meanwhile what negative consequences has Helgstrand encountered? Seems like that whole debacle has been swept under the rug
he was also suspended from competition but he’s still training and selling horses
@@Milestone-Equestrian barely a drop in the ocean for him then
If they want to remove injury to competition horses, it has to start with the competitions. Beginner to Expert, disqualify, score it against them, something. Whether it’s in the ring, or the warm up area. There’s cameras they use in sport to see everything, a bead of sweat even. Surly they can set something up to check for blue tongues, or hyperflexion, tight rein. They could have a light system, to warn riders they incurred a penalty, so many, disqualify, once is enough, but you have to give riders a chance to alter how they’re riding. They could watch for training methods in the warm up area. Check the tack, to make sure these horses are comfortable, and are correctly tacked, before they even walk in the ring, maybe make some tack illegal.
If the FEI has to start scoring correctly, I don’t care who they are. Yes the small events might not be able to afford all of this this, then they’ll need people to watch for the same, they will not care who is performing.
If they do, different things will disappear, because then it’s not worth it. But when it’s almost impossible to win without injuring horses, most will do it, and not care, they want to win after all.
Yes, what one person did was wrong, but it’s not that one persons fault for every rider or trainer, this person isn’t even in charge of the FEI. Even if they charged her, or imprisoned her. It’s not going to stop any of it. Except maybe make sure nobody records training sessions, though I think most will have already started doing so, just so they aren’t the next Charlotte. If it did, nobody would be sent to jail, or we’d need police.
It’s amazing how only a less than a handful of people have been caught, but it’s almost through every stable. Who did they upset, and what did the others do not to.
I do hope some people can change their ways, and those who refuse have their horses taken away. It is possible to change. I think it might be harder for adults, than it is for kids and teens, to realize they've been doing things wrong, but it isn't impossible.
I don’t feel bad for charlotte. I think the case of charlotte is important example to other riders that no matter how big name you are, your career will still take hit if you get caught abusing horses.
That being said, I certainly agree that uproar should’ve not reached only charlotte, but much wider target including FEI.
I agree with you 💯. Everyone is distancing themselves as if Charlotte was the only one. 😢
Again,totally agree xxxxxxxxxxxx
I am just a few minutes into this video, and I think none of us have enough information to make many judgements especially relative to other people...I heard Carl comment just has you would expect that he said, it is a very difficult moment, that he was shocked at what he saw but never saw her train that way in his yard...as well, he said she has a very young child and no one know how gravely this is effecting her, paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact words...he said he hopes she is strong enough to recover from this but also said she has had mental health issues in her past and he hopes she is going to make it out of this...I am paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact words, but apparently his voice was very emotional. He clearly cares deeply for Charlotte how could he not.
I also feel very sorry for Charlotte as I don't think she has the personality of a grave and consistent offender. I am certain she is taking it all to heart and will not let it happen again. In dealing with this kind of thing there are different types of people...but, moreover everyone of us has made mistakes...we also need to be human tone down the righteousness and judgement relative to this topic...especially regarding dressage...the dressage offense are not on the same level as something like Big LIck for example, which is down right off the charts cruelty to animals.
For all the younger folks out there...just tone down the righteousness...keep bringing pressure but allow things to be discussed without a lot of judgement because otherwise things are not going to change. Just hating on something doesn't change it, that if fact makes it worse...cleaning things up requires intelligent strategy, read 'The Art of War'.
Thank you for this video - absolutely hits the nail on the head. I came out of riding a number of years ago because this is very normalised in competitive equestrian sport. Charlotte is a scapegoat and I actually find it even more disappointing that sports people are not owning up to the wider issues and are just denying it is happening it’s 😢
I think this type of training technique is widely used at this level. I don't think any animal should be trained this way. I have to question the timing of this video being released. Certainly Charlotte's ban from participating in the Olympics was a "gift" for the other people/horses that did compete.
i see trainers in the warmup ring treating the horse so bad The judges then reward them Judges need to be held accountabe!
Charlotte was on video .
Many others are not ..
So pointing a finger , many of them probably do the same .
They don't care about the horse's wellfare , but for money and results .
@@petrahartog5934 in helgstrands case, they got way more damning video of his whole operation over an extended period of time so IMO it’s a more accurate representation of what was actually going on and yet it seems to have blown over with a lot less hatred directed at him, particularly from people within the dressage world / his peers.
He has more $ and influence so I’m sure there’s why but it’s still worth remarking on in my opinion.
@@Milestone-Equestrian The Olympics were used to expose Charlotte and as it was in the worlds spotlight it got a lot off news coverage .
I read a lot about Helgstads " training " methods too .
But this was not in competition .
And he sure did get hate and comments too.
But a lot is unseen and unknown , and it worries me most that horses are abused for the reasons mentiond before
@upliftequine. I think she will come back and have learnt from this. One thing is for sure she will never use these methods again.
The true is that you learn from your authorities and traines..so Charlotre did
Agree
Sadly I don't think it was the first time Charlotte du Jardin had she abused horses, very disappointing, i am off liking dressage because so much abuse from different riders have come out, very distressing.
Don't think she deserves any se on chance.
FYI Posting this here because I don't use other socials. My virus scanner is blocking your shop website, there is a security issue with it.
Well - now that the "whistle blower" has been exposed - then it all becomes clearer than a winter stream in the mountains .....!
Just as many of us thought.
I have no idea who the whistleblower is. Where did you get that info?
It’s those who make the rules in the big competitions that could make the biggest difference. You should *not* be able to win olympic gold when your horse suffers blue tongue when you exit the ring. Period!
I wonder what Charlotte is doing now . She may have lost her livelihood.
May I just ask for an opinion on the opposite of rollkur. The American western "pleasure" horse show classes looks just as bad to me.
Charlotte has many millions in the bank. Her main sponsor who co owns many of her horses Peter Belshaw has been phographed with her since the video came out giving her a hug.
On a different topic, have you looked into the issue of horse auction, transport to slaughter and how horses are slaughtered now that we do not have horse slaughter in the US? What we observe in revealing videos of training abuse pales in comparison to issues surrounding horse slaughter in the US.
I have but there’s already some really great organizations involved with helping them and making changes there so I don’t want to disband from this movement that has less people involved in promoting change due to the belief that horses at the top levels aren’t being abused.
Horse slaughter ? Pig slaughter ? Cattle slaughter? Chicken slaughter it is ALL bad.
I concur
This has been going on for decades and everyone knows it. Many people have stopped competing early in their career because of the chronic abuse.
Nobody in the horse world can understand this video or could possibly justify it because it does not make sense. I am aware that most riders and trainers still use punishmet in their training. But even or especially punishment needs to be used in an intelligent way so the horse can understand what it is supposed to do and get a chance to avoid the pain. Why on earth would you punish the horse once, then see that it doesn‘t work, then blame the whip („not hard enough“ quote) and do that AGAIN for like 24 times. WITHOUT any result. So no, no one would „train“ a horse that way. Not even people who do use punishment would justify this video. This is abuse that you don‘t see every day because on top of that it is just stupid and arrogant. As a dog and horse owner I am sad to see that our positive reinforcement training with the dogs has not reached the horse world and is lightyears away. ☹️
Because of these horse abusers to include those who abuse horses who don't compete in any discipline, they are putting out articles suggesting an end horse ownership/riding. I knew this would happen. Those who abuse horses need to be dealt with individually. I have 3 horses of my own and care for a rescue horse. They come before me. My horses were former Amish horses and live a wonderful life. I ride bitness and never use any device to hurt me horses. I know there are many wonderful horse people out there who love their horses as much as I love mine.
Is the FEI going to reform? I doubt it. Maybe the answer is for people to opt out of the corrupt world of competition and for adults to teach children to enjoy horses for their own sake. Why isn't the joy of riding trail the pinnacle? Partnership with your horse in the natural world ....
I don't feel sorry for charlotte, but she's not the only one. Even in the olympics GP there were some problems, and in some cases the judges did'nt said nothing. I saw your last video about some problems in the olympics.😊
I watched the Olympic show jumping and was shocked to see the majority of horses who make exaggerated pick ups with their hind legs. Rapping is. SOOOOOO obviously normal home training.
As always, Shelby Dennis, you keep everyone informed and thinking for themselves rather than going with the crowd. I agree, SHE'S definitely being made the scapegoat here. As much as I dislike her video and the timing of the videos release, I think even if it HADN'T been an Olympic year, this still would have become the "scandal" it has. But it's having MORE attention because it was an Olympic year. And she was the "golden girl", one they expected to win more medals for Team Great Britain. And everyone throwing her under the bus? I'm not surprised by that. Nor should anyone else be. They don't want the attention focused on them. You not only had Helgestrand or the new Denmark rider, but also, in just the last couple of years, you also had Parra exposed for abusing the horses in his care as well. Of course, Carl Hester will distance himself and quickly. But that won't matter. HE will surely be under the microscope for a while. Because Charlotte was his prodigy. He trained HER!! It doesn't surprise me in the least that he would want to distance himself. Even while saying that this wasn't the Charlotte he knew. All this is forcing FEI to uphold some of the rules they've been turning a blind eye to. Hopefully, for the betterment of the sport. No matter which discipline you are riding. Because I've seen riders that just do Show Jumping, come into the arena, and the horse is held so tight it's in the Rollkur position. Your friend, the Retired Paramedic, a Former FEI Judge, and Horse Trainer in Ontario, Canada, Jenn 💖 🇨🇦
A bit late in this but the whistleblower is notorious in Australia for her bad training and treatment of her dressage horses and is the lady laughing in the video. I don;t think she whistleblew out of concern for the horse.
Let's face reality here. I'm 68 years old, I'm straight forward , hard cor honest and I don't play no bull. I say what needs to be said others refuse to. Yes , I'll definitely put it out there, you bet I will. Someone has to have the gust to. Nor is it the people's feeling I actually care about. It these beautiful innocent horses that matter to me most being abused. They don't have a voice, I'll be their voice. Whether it's a horse , dog or any animal. If your hitting an animal regardless of your so called reasons. Claiming your training it. Your guilty of animal abuse . You know for a fact , your abusing that animal , you know IT'S ANIMAL ABUSE . Let's not make any excuses for it . Everyone involved in this is guilty of it , regarding these horses. You know when your abusing an animal. Regardless of how old after 6 yesrs of age. But I also like to acknowledge the fact , that these riders, they learned this behavior from somebody else . Not making any kind of excuse for them , they have none. What I'm getting at , they too learned this behavior from their own trainer's when learning to ride . This behavior goes back as far as people have own horses . There's been great horse owners and of course, just as many bad ones as well. None the less , if you feel bad about doing something you don't feel right in your actions towards any animal. If it doesn't feel right , you know it's not right !!! Everyone knows right from wrong from the time their at least 6 on and definitely older . Yet people continue to ignore their natural born instincts , and not stop doing what they know in their heads and hearts is wrong. And stop their behavior. So , I want to know were is the people's sincere sense of guilt in it ? Peoples claim , oh I did it but learned from it. I felted bad doing it than. But I no longer do it now. That doesn't give you any excuses. You still did it and continue to do so than. Stopping it now doesn't give you a pass . What about the horse you hurt back than ? At that time you did it ? Think they will ever forget or get over the abuse you continue to give them than ? No . Thank you , yes for stopping , but again it gives you no out in your actions. The horse will continue to live with your actions for the rest of their lives. You did them a lot of damage , they'll will 0 continue to suffer from their entire lives. We all know better, we know when we're hurting an animal from the time we're old enough to know right from wrong. And if you feel bad about your actions towards any animal, than you stop doing it right than not later ! That should just be a normal reaction , because you know it's wrong. Why let a Trainer regardless of how well known they are .Or how good their supposedly known to be as a trainer. Why people continue to allow these trainer's to continue to train them when they know their being abusive towards horses ? Knowing full well they are teaching you to abuse your horse ? Are not reporting them in today's world ? When animal abuse is against the law. There is no excuse for it. Nor can anyone say they didn't know. Oh you know when you feel uncomfortable or bad about doing something someone else is telling you to do. That's the first sign somethings definitelys not right. We're even taught this as small children from our parents. Yet these people continue to allow these trainers to teach them what they know for a fact is absolutely wrong . So yes , it making them just as guilty . Because they just continue to carry on with the behavior by not putting a stop it . They know their hurting their animals . They know , so why aren't they not just telling the trainer's , flat out , NO , I won't do it. I will not hit my house as your instructing me to , no it's wrong. Or if young, why aren't you telling your parents what they are teaching you and you feel uncomfortable about it. That you do not want to hit you horse as instructed to do. Or why the parents themselves aren't getting involved. If their at these training sessions with their child or children. Telling the instructor you won't allow them to teach that to their children. They of all people have to definitely know it's wrong. That you rather not have your child do as they are being instructing to do in hurting any horse. You rather find another trainer. Especially older children like teenagers. They know. You can see it also afterwords, when the trainings over. You see the after effects on the horses while grooming them . There definitely isn't any excuse's what so ever in anyone's behavior or actions in any form of animal abuse. None. And the Judges in these shows know full well what's taking place and they're over looking. Which only encourages these riders to continue the abuse. Everyone must be held accountable. Even who's not involved in abusing their horses in these shows. Why ? Because they too know full well , what's taking place , yet keeping their mouth shut . But instead their looking the other way , making them just as guilty. They are actually allowing the horse abuse to continue , by keeping quite. Which is allowing it to continue . Nor them coming forward and telling the world what's taken place. That there is in fact horse abuse taking place with these riders in these shows. That some of the riders are abusing their horses for no other reason than to win. Explaining to the world, than if necessary refuse to continue to compete . If that's what it takes to stop it. Until ithings changes. The riders and Judges knowing what's taken place . But they just keep looking the other way. So these riders can win. It's all about the money not the horses welfare. If you feel uncomfortable when someone tells you to do something. Than why would you than continue and do it anyway? You know it's wrong. So am I'm wrong in saying that these people aren't just as guilty? NO , because in actually they are. Oh one last thing. Now that this is out in the complete open. Why are those that attend these shows still continuing to do so ? If they actually stop attending. No money would be coming in to support the shows. They would end. Contining to do so , knowning what's taken place. These people are just as guilty same as every one else. These shows can't continue if no one went and payed the money to see them. Now could they ? Again let's be realistic here. Everyone needs to be found guilty and everyone be named in it . Until than , it's never going stop. Sorry for the l-o-ng comment. But I had to get it out Let's all be these beautiful horses voices. Since they don't have one. Let the names of these actually horse al riders abusers, along with the Judges names be known publicly. They won't be able to make excuses nor defend their actions. Because theircall actually are guilty. That mush has already just been been proven already. Much respect to this channel.
I'm so glad you are vegan and don't support animal abuse and cruelty.
Please don't. That's what they count on with their gros gaslighting and pathetic lies about it being an error of judgement and not representative of who they are. When it IS who they are and you know it. I've worked among them and they are brutal to their cores. Not just to their horses, but partners and employees as well.
Please don't when you know she's at home continuing the abuse as we speak and people are already working behind the scenes to get her back on the scene again shortly as if nothing has happened. Free to continue the abuse and being rewarded for it.
And most importantly; please don't as it's insulting to their horses who endured and continue to endure it day in and day out.
Correction CJD has been banned from competing for 6 months by the FEI . And do you know PERSONALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENE AT CJD'S ?? NO YOU DON'T !! SO STOP WITH THE STUPID ACCUSATION'S THAT YOU NO NOTHING ABOUT AND YOU ARE NOT PHYSICALLY THERE JUST GUESSING AT WHAT IS GOING ON LIKE EVRYONE ELSE !!!!!
It’s an insult to the horses and detrimental to reform to maintain the perspective that these people can’t change and go on to prove they can do better. Reform only works with the belief that we can improve
In no way do I condone what Charlotte or the Danish woman or other riders (we all can see the evidence before our noses of incorrect training by the way the horses move and are muscled in competition) BUT I can see how these situations develop in the modern professional world, where everyone is in an echo chamber and under pressure to win in order to keep sponsorship and make a living. Abusive practices get normalised. But it is across the board. Just look at a Western Pleasure Class with horses going with their noses on the ground, often put their by draw reins and tie downs, far too slowly for nature, and in a way that is wholly contrary to the horses natural way of going, no horse moves like that naturally and it causes strain on the animal yet it is now normalised by 40 years ago they went far more naturally) I think change has to come from the top, in all sports and we should all look to ourselves to ask what are we finding pleasant to watch and support. Riders like Charlotte or the average Western Pleasure rider are not wicked people who enjoy abusing animals but rather have lost their way due to many factors and any one of us could end up there if not careful
Good one.
The video is awful . I shall miss C Dujardins beautiful riding . She is a once in a generation talent and I doubt we will see her again . She was outstanding at the British Dressage convention 23 . I agree with all said and welcome sensible debate on this channel .
I don't feel sorry 😊
I think I get what you’re saying but anyone caught abusing animals doesn’t get my sympathy - I feel sorry for the animals - personally I think the people who have been caught, with irrefutable evidence, should be banned for a lot longer than a year.
Thank you for not running down Charlotte. She is still a great trainer and rider. You do not get the horses, such as Blueberry, by beating on them. This tape was from 4 years ago. Something never mentioned is that horse in the tape had his legs wrapped. I would like for everyone to move on.
Very well said
👍 👍 👍 Charlotte has a lovely horse called Alive and Kicking. You can see her on aYou Tube videos winning the GP in both Belgium and Germany this year with a completely open frame.
I do not feel sorry for Charlotte. That would be like feeling sorry for a convicted criminal because so many other and worse criminals are still at large. These other abusers are still at large and must be caught and punished. Don't go soft on this.
It’s not going soft to reference the environment that creates people like this. They’re everywhere. I was one of them as a child. People are conditioned to be like this over time and we need to recognize that in order to make a real solid difference otherwise the shame involved is enough of a deterrent that they don’t want to change.
I get what your saying Charlotte has not yet been able to talk about it all etc and sadly everyone hates her. But I bet there are worse people that abuse their horses far far worse. I have to say re you I’m so happy you have moved and hopefully your in a lot nicer and cleaner place because that place you’ve moved from really was a complete shit hole for the horses to live in. Tfs.
@@christinemartindale8715 The place we’ve moved from had mud in the winter but offered 8 acres of engaging field turnout that vastly improved the life of my horses and if you want to continue being happy for me, you can start by not saying something so cruel to the owners of the land. Backhanded comments aren’t actually truly being happy for people so miss me with that and actually be genuine or keep it to yourself if you can’t manage that.
Your mouth is a complete shit hole for saying such nasty things to Shelby.
I've tried to remain calm and measured about this whole situation with Charlotte. This event has damaged the Equestrian world terribly and has brought way too many PETA and/or non horse people out of the woodwork who don't even understand that if you are dealing with a breeding Stallion, you may need to use much harsher equipment for control and your safety. We all make mistakes in life and we all make mistakes in training horses. Her life and career is over as far as horses are concerned. To me, that's punishment enough! I believe she should settle on riding and training for her own pleasure and keep away from the public and competition. My heart goes out to her because she is the poster child for many other's brutality. I am rather suspicious of the motives of the person who released all this information and video, "just before the Olympics". Such a "convenient timeline".
It actually was deliberately done . The video was of Charlotte from 4 yrs ago !!! . The person who released the video conveniently right before the Olympics ,is just as complicate in the Abuse act !!!! And ask your self why did the person need to engage a Solicitor after the release of the video ?
A bit tired of this….yes, animal welfare above all else, but I‘ve seen so many poorly-kept, mistreated and badly ridden horses - all owned and ridden by „hobby riders“, but of course, no photographers and media in sight. Is putting on a saddle, a bit not already against the horse‘s interest? Should we ride them at all? If we could ask horses, probably not.
Then again, would there still be any horses? And what about dogs on leashes, that are pulled on? And cats that are let outside?And birds in cages?
Yes, the judges should reward classic riding and movements, but that ship has sailed since Totilas
Yes, there should be strict rules. But this current hysteria is getting out of hand…
@@lottefleck3688 Promoting better welfare in competition and holding those who serve as role models and set the standard for what is good riding helps horse welfare across the board.
I never understand the logic of “but what about XYZ welfare issue” because we can care about more than one thing at a time and if you truly believe those issues are more pressing and need immediate attention, there’s absolutely nothing stopping you from advocating yourself.
I had one horse a lesson horse at that that absolutely wanted to be ridden and would break out of his 10?acre field so that someone would ride him. He only did this if he wasn't ridden for a couple of days/weeks. And it wasn't just with me because I got him because his previous owners had the same problem.
I thoroughly agree with you. I do also feel some sympathy for my namesake Charlotte. Riding at the top level like any sport is hard and the discipline required to achieve success is huge. Sure a horse doesn't have a choice but I truly believe most love their work and even understand and enjoy winning a competition.
I hunt and even when very tired at the end of a long day I have always found ponies and horses willing to give a little bit more when asked. That's exactly what a human athlete would do to be the best.
I hate animal abuse but top dressage horses are some of the most pampered animals on the planet. There are countless millions of people in our world living in worst conditions and in hunger. Horses at the top level have little to complain about frankly by comparison.
A quick additional comment. 'Hysteria' exactly sums up the situation. It is too extreme to class Charlotte's actions as 'animal abuse', they were 'excessive use of the whip'. Cruel, possibly and it also doesn't make them right but I do not believe smacks with a lunge whip can ever compare with general and intentional neglect of an animal. That is truly ghastly and is abuse.
Do top riders care for their animals wellbeing? Of course they do, they would be crazy not to if we come down to basics given the value of competition horses let alone anything else. Wanting to win doesn't mean you don't care for your horse or pony. Being a good rider or horse owner doesn't mean you need to replicate 'my little pony' in real life.
I find it very hypocritical. if anybody here shouting animal abuse is guilty of paying for horrific abuse and eating animals.
completley different we eat animals for food , she was doing it for a so called sport
@@martinwilby8942 Can you hear yourself? " we eat animals for food " There is no difference cruelty is cruelty. The cruelty to animals you pay for and then eat them is horrific. You don't NEED to support this cruelty.
@@jonjonwp its not about judging me i have done nothing wrong
kurt zumer a working class lad was rightly prosecuted for abusing his cat ,however as
she is from the other side of the tracks she wont face prosecution
@@martinwilby8942 I judge you if you pay for horrific animal cruelty and then eat them.