How Much Chain Can I Make in a Day?
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- Опубликовано: 29 дек 2022
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Alec Steele Blacksmith 2022 
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An interesting chain of events
You're grounded for that pun
Yaaaayy very punny
Yet every link rings true.
Nice
@@S8tan7
Aren’t most people of Earth grounded?
Your links-per-minute isn't as bad as you might think because if you were doing it professionally you'd have several pieces on the go at the same time which would severely reduce down time while waiting for things to get to temperature, there would always be a piece ready to be processed. How long your arms would hold up to the non stop workout is a different matter 😅
and just doing open links for non-stop and then welding them shut at the same time connecting them together.
Too many irons in the fire? ;-)
@@Burden82 yes, definitely better to cut all your blanks, then bend all the Us, then forge all the scarf joints, and finally weld together the chain all in one go. This would also allow you to have one end of the chain feeding into a bucket or something on the floor so you can work on the other end without having to finegle the tongs so much. Joining segments piecemeal like this was probably the best way to do it for this one-off video, but you can probably see how it would be more efficient to work from one end of a very long chain if this were what you did for your job.
Also I'd imagine you'd do cutting one day, shaping the next, and welding the third. Chances are even higher that apprentices would have done the cutting and shaping while a journeyman did the welds.
@@benadams5557 I could imagine a master telling a hyperactive apprentice to bend U's, smash scarfs, all day, every day, for a month before even showing the kid how to weld. However, chain making would probably be epic weld practice for the apprentice, and if a link fails in testing, just make a new one before selling or delivery. A smithy probably had more than just one apprentice helping out as well. Hence so many "Smith" last names.
Since a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, now I'm very curious as to how consistent you got at your welds, @Alec Steele. How about making some links, having them pulled to breaking and seeing how much force is needed on each?
Great idea! I need to find a way to make a rig to test it!
Local engineering college probably has an instron. Basically measures force and how much it stretches.
@@AlecSteele Just use a come-along between two immovable objects. Should be enough to break a light chain like this one.
You'd be surprised how many "immovable objects" become moveable when a chain and come along are applied to them
@@blackoak4978 i'm sure they could find something lol
i would like to see you strength test a couple of those links in comparison to a modern made chain. This kind of look back to what blacksmith had to do by hand before machines took over is always interesting as well.
I read once that when factory welded chain first became available, old time farmers didn’t trust it, and thought it would be to brittle, and would temper it by wrapping the whole chain around an oak stump, and throwing it in a bonfire.
Not sure how true the story is, but sure sounds plausible.
@@Vikingwerk instead of just hanging more and more weight from a conventionally hand made chain and a factory welded chain to see which hold more weight
@@Vikingwerk Interesting, never heard that myself. I agree it sounds rather plausible, and as the end user of the chain I expect the farmers would far rather a weaker chain for being too soft over the brittle failure mode of snapping without warning while under less than the rated load...
I too would love to see this chain strength tested - after watching Tod's Workshops Arrows vs Armour videos it was quite clear the forge weld at the socket of the arrow head was not reliably that good, but sometimes even when the shaft doesn't break either the heads survived, so at least some of them were good welds. This chain test would be an interesting and simple to quantify demonstration of just how reliable a forge weld is. Not of any direct comparison, but still an interesting data point towards understanding the results of those tests.
At Hereford college they test hadn forge fire welded chain links. I think we made the links from 10mm thick round bar. Made 3 links to fit in the machine and mine snapped at about 5 tons pulling force. A friends chain links snapped at about 9 tons. Other didn't even make it to 1 ton. It just depends how good the fire welds are so can be inconsistent results depending who makes the chain. I never seen them test a modern cabin to compare it with but that would be cool to see. Also our chain links were not hardened and only made from mild steel
@@ThistleForge If you are only testing 3 links you made its really not enough to say anything - perhaps your 4th chain link would be the weakest link and fail almost instantly under load. Even a skilled craftsman will have some variation, as will the raw materials they are using - so really need to test at least 20 odd links to failure per smith really - enough to prove your bad links are within a reasonable spread to the best links possible, or the chain's rated load.
You need prescription safety glasses. I’ll tell you they are so great I’ve started wearing them all the time.
Whoa Cody's here too?
Hi Cody, good to see you out and about lol
They make those? I need to see about getting some...
I second this!
Also hi Cody!
I’ve never seen Alec either wear prescription glasses or take safety seriously.
Feel like I'm watching a video straight out of your first few years. This was great.
except he would have worked midnight to midnight and made 187 links
Even I remember then….
You might even say it was a link to his past…
@@mitchellbennett Too true. 100 hours a week alec was a very young and determined man.
There's just something about the primitive smithing that I find more enjoyable to watch. Maybe bc I can trick myself into thinking, ".... yeah I could do that." 🤣
I hope you can make another chain with riveted links and test the strength difference with welded links !
i hope he makes an even amount if he does this LOL
Netter still: If you go to the effort of forging, make the chain out of one piece of steel
I make chains for fun from time to time, no particular reason (then melt the metal and start with bars again with some extra scrap) and one thing that makes the operation easier is to make a bunch of separate links then make more links to unite them. The idea being that you're not splitting your work method between the two types of ops in making a chain, you're only performing like - like operations. It gets downright therapeutic.
edit:also, you don't move the whole chain. You get yourself a table with some nails in it, and use the nails to secure the chain up the table as you make them. You only move one finished link and one working link from the fire to the anvil. Moving the anvil closer and working the fire from over the anvil is also a good idea (table sits to the side you're more comfortable with. I put my anvil with the nose about center to the fire pit, table to the right of it and as i finish one link, as the fire heats the next prepped link, i move the chain one nail up.
Even if you can't cover your time, Etsy should more then cover fresh stock.
You should upload a video of this process if possible
This was your best video in a while!!! That doesn't mean I haven't liked your other videos, but this one was exceptionally great! I had never thought about how chain would have traditionally been made! It's incredible to go back and see how things used to be made before modern technology. I know it would take a long time, but I would be interested in seeing you make a primitive belt sander. Maybe do something like a petal lathe to power it?
Oh my gosh! And a primitive bellows and anvil. Just the whole nine!
I really loved this video, this could be the beginning of a cool series of you visiting classic things that blacksmiths back in the day would be the sole source of and would be a construction of skill, where as now it's all done automatically, mechanically.
I love that you talk a bit about the history, sometimes the invention/discovery that lead to the items creation.
I wonder what other products / tools / fasteners etc would fall into that category?
All the best Alec (And Jamie!) Here's to a better new year! :D
this is a great idea love it! i do viking era blacksmithing as my hobby it takes a while (im not nearly as good as Alec) so seeing him do stuff like this and struggling a bit is great
I really enjoyed that you stepped out of the shop into the "back yard" environment. It would be cool to see a minimal series. Love your content
I recommend adding a drop shadow or outline effect to text on screen. 1:30 When explaining the scarf process, I had to pause the video and increase my screen’s brightness to uncomfortable levels to read the black text on dark background. If you can do a thin white outline around black text, or even a black outline around white text, it will be much easier for your viewers to read.
My great great grandfather was a chain maker, used to work on the huge anchor chains for ships. He was part of a team that made the Titanic's chains.
This would be a perfect time to test the strength of various modern chains vs your, or others', handmade old world chain.
Chain making is super fun. I prefer to make the scarfs using one of the corners of the anvil to create a triangular divot. I feel it works really nicely when welding chain on 8-10 mm stock.
We made chain in a blacksmithing class I took about 20 years ago. We made 3/8" x 1 1/2" links, first we made 30 links separately then we made 15 open links then we linked them together. At the end of the class we tested the chains with a hydraulic ram, mine broke at a hair over 2000# when a bad forged weld popped. The anvils we used were made out of railroad track and had been specifically modified for making chain links.
My wife and I have been taking a series of monthly smithing classes locally lately, and we just covered forge welding this weekend by making chain links.
I love these at home style blacksmithing videos. Makes it seem more homely, great job on the chain!
No idea if you have heard or it even been there but you can see a traditional Victorian demonstration of this at the Black Country Museum as the Black Country was the home of traditional chain making and is where the anchor chains for the Titanic was made. They have a really fun and interesting demonstrator and give an amazing insight into chain making as it traditionally was. Loved the video really like this sort of stuff as well as the weapon making ones!
This video felt more like an older Alec Steele video, a fact I very much enjoy
Love these new blacksmithing videos. More please
This is my favorite video of yours in a long time. The combination of what got you into smithing as a teen and history are A+ 10/10 great video please do more historical smithing stuff.
4:58 funny thing is, a firepit almost exactly like that is what I first used as a forge lol
I would love to see this little challenge again after you get used to chain making!
Might be an interesting challenge for other SmithTubers.
They demonstrate chain making at the Black Country Living Museum in Dudley. They use a chain makers anvil set close to the forge, though I think they just keep adding to the end of the chain, which once you get to long lengths has the advantage that you're only lifting a short length of chain - by joining shorter runs you're lifting the middle of a folded chain.
You could make more in a day if you did it production style. Things like scarfing the ends of all the bars before you bend them into links then bending them all into loops before welding the ends, etc.
Probably faster to do the scarfing after bending the blanks into a U shape. When they're straight you can only heat one end at a time and you have to pay careful attention to the relative orientation of the scarves so that they'll line up when bent. When you forge the scarves after bending you can do both of them in one heat, and they're aligned with each other by default. This also creates a natural separation between the cold work of cutting and bending, and the hot work of forging and welding.
I might be wrong but i think pat meant after the initial u bend but before the final set of bends to make an O
Basically it would be...
Cut 20 straight sticks
Bend 20 Us
Scarf all 20
Weld them
@@tissuepaper9962 if the bends were being done cold I would agree with you.
@@tissuepaper9962 you can have many irons in the fire and simply pump out scarves on one end for a day, before pumping out the far end for a day, before bending U shapes for a day before welding links for a day or two. The average number of links per day could get pretty high if you minimize the time spent adjusting positions while at temp and don't have much if any downtime waiting for heat.
Loved this video. I would love to see more Damascus remakes of existing tools or items. Like the crescent wrench. And videos like this making items in the more labour intensive methods. Happy New Year Alec and Mrs Steele. And Jamie🤙 I look forward to another yeah of the Alec Steele show. ❤️
You should make a chainmakers anvil and then have another attempt and see how many more you can make with it!
I'm a smith from upstate NY USA, you can save a lot of time by hammering the section you are going to cut into a scarf before you cut, then cut and scarf are one heat and you can scarf two links at once, also with a longer fire you can shape the link in that same heat while still on the rod
love it! reminds me of the good ol video days.
Awesome video Alec! So good seeing you get back into blacksmithing :)
I’m reminded of, I think, the 3rd A Song of Ice and Fire book, with the Battle of Black water, where Tyrion ordered every blacksmith in King’s Landing to make chains, and one particular smith thought such a simple thing was beneath a man who made intricate and delicate pieces for royalty or whoever, and Tyrion was all like, “if it’s so simple, a master like yourself should be able to do it with both hands chopped off. Shall we test that theory?”
I've been watching you from very early on. You are a big reason I blacksmith ( hobby for now). I l really like that you are doing this type of blacksmith again! Cheers to more!
I went to a comprehensive school in the 1960s/1970s that used to be a 'county modern' - so it had all the equipment from it's non-academic heritage..... I was lucky enough to do metalwork in a department with lathes, a forge, milling machines and I have never forgotten the pleasure of hitting yellow-hot iron with a big hammer - even though I was 12 the last time I did it. 50 years ago.
Watching this took me back to a very enjoyable childhood - thanks :)
nice to see a humble honest video from you with out BS and limited unrequired flashy editing montrge BS
peace
Love the simple blacksmith history lesson.
As good as modern chain is, the character of your hand made chain is just beautiful! I really love it. You cant go past handmade for some things. Great work mate.
This was so cool. It surprises me how many people didn't know how chain is made, and that just means you're teaching people something new once again! Great video.
Well Alec, or whoever will read this from the team, this was an incredible surprise. I started watching a long time ago, it was the shop at Baker st? Tiny little sheet metal shop and problems with the insurance company over what lock you could use, and making stripper bars for a press jig for hammer heads. I stopped watching about the time you were moving to the US: the videos were so over produced and edited till they were basically tv production levels of useless and boring, I wasn't learning anything from you, just watching clever editing tricks that hid interesting. This video was great, it feels like you took a step back and actually tried to show yourself learning, and teaching, and just enough editing to keep the video moving during operations you'd done before in the video. I wasn't initially going to watch when RUclips recommended this video, but I'm glad I did, I might even check out some of the other recent videos to see if it's a trend or just something because of the holidays. I hope you guys enjoyed the holidays, and it was so nice to get a glimpse of the old Alec, I hope to see you again soon.
I need more build videos I love them and help me sleep when I struggle to go sleep watching you work is soothing
LOVE you getting back into some blacksmithing content!
It would be cool if you could find some old blacksmith made chain to show us what chain making professionally could achieve.
Best Alec Steele video I’ve seen in the last few months! Looks like you are really taking the time to enjoy the craft of forging again. Back to the roots of the channel.
I hope this video does really well, even though I expect it won't be "exciting" Enough for most viewers. I really adore this sort of smithing content, seeing hammer skills at work and the fun you have just working your craft.
Would it be faster and stronger to rivet the links instead of forge welding them? I feel like I have seen old chain before with rivets instead of welds. maybe worth an experiment.
Once you got to the seven link chain, you should have started over. Create another seven links in the same fashion and then work on connecting the two chains into a 15 link chain.
Thank you for the video! I’ve been reading a blacksmith book and been looking up what local blacksmithing workshops are around and it’s been great seeing the things mentioned in the book being used in your video!
Hopefully I can be like you!
Next step is to make a Gunter's chain - used for measuring out distances for surveying in old imperial units. An imperial chain = 22 yards/66 ft = 100 imperial links, 1 link = 7.92 inches. The most frequent place to see something that is exactly 1 imperial chain is the distance between the two sets of stumps on a cricket pitch.
I'd love to see more quickie videos like this where you cover "simple" blacksmithing jobs that have been replaced by modern processes.
from a non blacksmith the easiest way from my perspective top speed this up is to concentrate on making completed links, then make your half links, then start assembling/welding them in sections of two. once long enough have the free end suspended between the fire and anvil so that you are working with the same weight/motions and able to have a predictable setup inorder to create an efficient pattern of work.
I really enjoyed watching this exercise. It gives such a sense of the history and use of the craft and context for industrial improvements. And it’s always fun to watch the fluency with basic skills improve with repetition.
You might try winding your rod stock around a mandrel. Then use a hot cut on an angle to give you a bias cut link for welding.
After that you weld in batches one link after another. It’s often easier to assemble the chain and then do the welds.
You can pile it in a bucket or wind it around a helper that resembles a short coat rack. If your doing a lot of it you can wind it on a big spool.
Making individual links one at a time will take a dogs age.
Your experience may vary and I haven’t made any chain in years but that’s how I learned it.
Anyway, well done. Skills, tools, actually making a living at this stuff and charisma to boot. You are winning.
Love the vid! Cool idea and cool thing to do. Only one thing... Shouldn't the weld be on the long end? Or is that a by-product of modern processes?
I think its just easier to make since you would need some kind of wide and flat on the top horn for correcting the weld. The strength of the weld is the same everywhere i think
@@vaurisyoutube it depends on how you 'load' the weld. In Alec's case they load sideways as a pushing / bending force. In the case of long end weld, they load lengthways, as a pulling force. The latter usually are more withstandable.
I don't know why this was done, and why it was in your dads backyard in the winter, but it was awesome lol. It's really fun watching you blacksmith. Also I love the music that sounded like it was from the roaring 20s
I have been following you for close to 4 years and I love when u do 100% hand hammer work
Seeing that hand made chain makes me think it would be cool if you could do a project like a pair of shackles/manacles
Best video in a while. Nice to see some good old fashioned forging again.
Happy New year to you and your family and Jamie's family.
Last time I used an old timey blacksmithy forge like this (but deeper and tapered so the gunk does go to the bottom when you shake up the coal) was in 1993 when I were 18! I made a few horseshoes and a wheel rim and placed it upon the wooden spokes while hot to have it expand onto it and burn into place on the wooden spokes for a cart.
I've always been interested in smithing. Really enjoy your content so I can see what it's all about. Cool stuff!
I’ve been making chain-based jewelry recently, and I must say, I found the “how do I keep track of these links?!” hilarious.
I don’t have any solutions, but fortunately since I handle things in mms I don’t have to worry about space requirements. I just fit everything into an old old cigar box.
I really thought you would reach 50 links when I saw the title of the video. You can step up your game in many ways so hopefully we'll see you try a better setup and having you maybe have someone seasoned around to help you with the intricate detail of chaincraft
It's funny what you say about the consistency of forged chains, because you read all those stories of people breaking out of their chains or striking them with a hammer to free someone and it makes more sense if there's brittleness there.
This is really cool showing how chain used to be made. Very informative. Thank you alec.
Good take on a very (yet somewhat complicated due to handling) basic thing to craft. Also appreciate the 1 episode craft. Nice as a lil filler in between projects.
I had the privilege of seeing chains being both hand and machine made (and other stuff) over 40 years ago in the black country, some by cottage industry ...basically a bloke in his garden.
They were very fast... by the way the join is usually not at the end of the link, but half way down the longest side.
They finished them off by tumbling in huge drums to smooth the surfaces...every thing was moved about via hooks and rings in the ceilings like a giant snake...small stuff was just bagged into sacks.
Obviously it's a lot harder than it looks if Alex can only do a small length in a day...great video 😊
Man, blacksmithing AND table tennis?
That's the dream baby
A really enjoyable, interesting video. Think your next project using the coke forge should be Japanese bonsai scissors. Sent you the RUclips link on your last upload.
I've just seen you made some 1 year ago. Total noob
It's helpful to have a little hook for the hardy for both welding, and holding the other links for pickup. So first it's got two hanging, loop through and weld without touching or wasting weld heat. Then same again on threes for the seven, sevens for the fifteen. Then the operation is the same every time and there is no mess of links anywhere except hanging straight down.
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You should redo this with the period in mind. I would think a blacksmith would have an apprentice or two at any given time. One cutting lengths, one making rings and scarfs, and the master welding.
Also, hang the chain. If it's suspended above the anvil while you are adding a link, say from a line that runs from the forge to the anvil, the work would be quite a bit less awkward.
Awesome video! Great to see you blacksmithing again. I missed seeing content like this. 🔥
I love spiders , would love to see how you would go about forging a spider , (tarantula) maybe give it pattern with Damascus. Been following you for many years
I've seen other blacksmiths making chain and some tips they gave were keeping the anvil closer to the forge, something to help hold the chain up and a pair of chain tongs with narrow jaws so they don't get in the way as much and they hold onto the chain better..... I'd be interested to see if that helps?
I always found that starting with 200mm of 12mm steel, upseting each end and forming the scarfs on a sharp corner of your anvil makes it weld easier and you have enough material left after your first heat to then forge it back into the original diamiter with no honesty marks.
I love watching Max Fosh forge steel. Not many people know he’s a blacksmith.
DM me 👆👆
Thanks for watching and commenting
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Happy new year to Jamie, Mrs Steel and you Alec. Now all you need to do is make a giant pendant for the chain 👍🍻🍻
This outdoor forging stuff is awesome and I'd definitely like to see more.
That couldn't have been the most entertaining day behind the camera for Jamie, but what an example of how different things were only a few generations ago.
Theoretically you could go a lot quicker if your chain doesn't need to hold a lot of weight and you can just butt the ends together without a weld. I just saw a video from That Works earlier today where Ilya was making nunchucks and he used a really clever method where he bent his chain stock around a larger round stock until it was in a nice coil. Then he used some bar stock to shape it into ovals. He cut the whole thing down the middle, then put all the links together.
I would think back in the day this would a multi-smith job to get longer chains done in a shorter amount of time if they needed.
10:18 - 10:21 the music aligns with the hammer hits. and you should also stress test the chains and compare them to store bought ones with the same thickness.
I took my first blacksmithing workshop from a guy named Bill Sheer who was associated with the Coast Guard and Mystic Aquarium in Connecticut where they restore old ships. He told me the worst job he ever got was to make some historic reproduction chains for tall ships. Not only are they massive but they all have to be identical. There is no room for creativity as you just have to turn out a certain length with all the incumbent difficulties.
If I was to rationalize production and make it more efficient, I wouldn't cut the bar right away to make a link's length, but first forge it flat to make the beveled end, and then cut it when it's thin. In one heat and less hammer blows, you prepare the second end of the link you're cutting and the first end of the next link. Saves time and coal.
HE FORGED THIS CHAIN IN LIFE THROUGH HIS ACTS OF WEALDING!
Good old classic smithing! It would be very interesting to see how chain-makers and other such smiths worked in the past.
I'd love to see you make some chainmail this way -- but I bet that's a bloody lot of work for very little product at the end of it XD
I've never blacksmithed a day in my life but when that first link shot sparks my mind went "oh yeah it's weldin time"
Alec, Jamie and everyone else who works to get these videos out: 🥂HAPPY NEW YEAR 🥂!
We need more videos like this: just forging, no powerhammer, no expensive grinders, no engraving tools. Just hammering hot steel 😀
More old timey blacksmithing period pieces please this was really awesome to watch
I really want you to redo this but with a bending jig to get the links bent before you cut them. Maybe you could bend multiple wraps and cut them with a saw before scarfing them on a grinder or something...of course, that would mean one side of the chain links would have to be wider to accommodate so that you could squeeze them back together for the weld and have them overlap...but that's just a part of the jig, I reckon. With modern tools and methods, how much more could you make? You can even do a third go at it where you allow yourself the use of a modern welder or torch
Stock calculation for chain links, twice the outside length plus once the inside width.
I imagine they had a far more efficient method with batch processing a load of closed rings and ready to close rings. Then have a chain day where they make the actual chain.
Always love to learn from you.👍 Great video. Happy New Year 🎊🍻🎉⛄
I love videos like this every now and again. Just some good old fashion hammering hot steel.
I'm just imagining how much work those big anchor chain would have been. Scaling this up to 2-3 inch stock seem like an insane undertaking. Even just making a couple of links, let alone the hundreds of meters needed, PER ANCHOR! 😱
Have you heard of the cathedral, in Spain I think, that’s held together by a massive chain that was put on hot and then cooled to compress the building together and keep it from falling out? Pretty cool stuff
As I understand it, there are a few designs of chain makers tongs as well, which help manage holding the back 2 links out of the way while you weld.
Love these journeys to the past! It's cool to see how things used to be manufactured.
I have a challenge. Make some star drill chisels for manually drilling holes in stone. I can't even find modern ones online, only used from eBay. The alternative is a holder for bits made for hammer drills, marketed to rock climbers, but they cost like $80 which is more than some hammer drills. You could make feather and wedge rock splitters to go with them