What in the World is the Windfall Elimination Provision?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- The Windfall Elimination Provision currently affects about 1 1/2 million people in the US. What is it? (Hint: It can affect your Social Security benefit). Does it apply to you?
Thank you! I only just heard about WEP for the first time within the past few days but was having a hard time understanding whether it might apply to me. Your explanation made it SO MUCH clearer than every other video I've watched and was extremely helpful.
Your comment thrills me, Chris. Thanks so much for taking the time to leave it.
Simply said....thank you!!
I’m affected. I understood the intent of the law, but never fully understood the mechanics. Thank you for your clear explanation.
You're so welcome. I'm sorry it applies to you.
Hi Debbie, My spouse & I just learned about the WEP 2day. He is blind & receiving SSDI. He worked for a job for 20 years that didn't w/h SS. Do you know if when his SSDI is converted to SSA retirement will he be afected by this
Yes, WEP will apply in that situation. I'm sorry. www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf
Thank you best explanation that I've heard!!!
You're very welcome, Karen. I'm glad you found it helpful. Thank you for letting me know.
Thank you I understand it better now.
The WEP does affect me when I became disabled from Pulmonary Fibrosis, I was told I was going to lose $133.00 a month I was only 44 yrs old I had 27 years of substantial working years( This was in 2012). I hope they fix this because I could use that extra money.
I hope they do too, Freddy.
My wife had a savings from NBS in which she contributed money and the school district matched it 50% . SS just told us that she will have to pay $2740.00 and she will have to pay an additional 100 dollars until this is paid. She will get 716.00 dollars a month as opposed to over $800.00 previously. NBS has sent a letter stipulating that this does not qualify for a pension. It falls under the code of 457 and 3121 and all regulations thereunder. SS did not accept this statement and continues to ask for $2,700 and will remove over 100 dollars per month. They simply stated that we requested to have a different amount removed and we said no such thing.
OMG. First of all, that's ridiculous. I'm so sorry it's happening. I would recommend filing an appeal and have had some success with that. No guarantees, of course. Secondly, I apologize for my delayed response. Sometimes I see the You Tube comments and sometimes I don't. Not sure why.
The Government Pension Offset & WEP seems to go together.
Absolutely. I sometimes refer to them as "sister pieces of legislation". WEP affects our own benefits based on what we personally paid in; GPO affects our drawing against a spouse's benefit.
@@debbiehatch8016 Thank you for your expertise!
Debbie, this was good, clear coverage of the WEP provision, as all your explanations have been. Thanks for taking the time to present this important topic.
Thank you Manny - for not only watching the video but taking time to send me some feedback. I appreciate it.
Hello Debbie
I am a CSRS and retired from Federal with 39 years of services. Can I still qualify for Social Security Benefit when I am 67 with my pension ?
IF you have credits under Social Security, yes, you will be eligible for that benefit. To earn credits, you'd need to work in a job that pays into SS. For 2023 when you earn $1,640 in pay, you also earn one credit. You can earn a max of 4 credits per year which means, you'd need to pay in for at least 10 years in order to qualify. While you would qualify with 40 credits, because of your CSRS pension, the Windfall Elimination Provision I talked about in this video would apply to you.
Are individuals who obtained a SS exemption (for religious income) prior to 1983 but who qualify for SS benefits through secondary (non religious) employment, exempt from the WEP penalty?
I apologize for taking a while to get back to you, Allen. I've been traveling and You Tube doesn't always notify me that someone has left a comment.
If you are eligible for a pension based on work you did for a federal, state, or local government, a nonprofit organization, and you did not pay Social Security taxes, that pension can affect the amount of your Social Security benefits. It's the retirement benefit that triggers WEP. One question then, would be whether you're eligible for a pension from the religious entity.
Even that said, I see nothing to indicate WEP would apply in the situation you speak of. Please DO speak directly to Social Security to be 100% certain.
www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.11/handbook-1128.html
Thank you for explaining this. Clarified WEP for me. It’s still unfair for those of us who had dual careers and being penalized for doing so. Thanks again.
Agree (for what that's worth...). Thanks for letting me know you found the video helpful.
The SSA GPO fact sheet states the following: There are other situations for which we won’t reduce your Social Security benefits as a spouse, widow, or widower; for example, if you:
• Are a federal employee who switched from the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) to the Federal Employees’ Retirement System (FERS) after December 31, 1987; and:
-Your last day of service (that your pension is based on) is before July 1, 2004;
-You paid Social Security taxes on your earnings for 60 months or more during
the period beginning January 1988 and ending with the first month of entitlement to benefits; or
-You filed for and were entitled to spouses, widows, or widowers benefit before
April 1, 2004 (you may work your last day in Social Security covered employment at any time).
• Received, or were eligible to receive, a government pension before December 1982 and meet all the requirements for Social Security spouse’s benefits in effect in January 1977; or
• Received, or were eligible to receive, a federal, state, or local government pension before July 1, 1983, and were receiving one-half support from your spouse.
Is my spouse exempt from the GPO since she is has a Federal Deferred Transfer Pension from CSRS (18.1 years) to FERS (2.1 years) for 20.2 years total. She transferred from CSRS to FERS when she returned to Federal Service from 11/1999 to 7/2002. Her Transfer start date is after the stated date of 12/31/1988 from the GPO SPECIAL EXCEPTION and her Federal termination date was 7/2002 which was prior to 7/1/2004.
As is the case for everything/anything we talk about, there are always numerous exceptions. Thank you, sincerely, for the additional information: sounds like a basic video is not what you personally need. My intent in this snippet was merely to provide an introduction to WEP - not provide a comprehensive listing of ALL rules for WEP./GPO. Again, I appreciate you input.
I understand it totally! They take your money that you earned! But wait there is more! It's called the Govt pension Offset, and they also take your money! Guess I should have been in congress! So, what I thought would be a comfortable retirement has turned into a nightmare.
Do you have an email or other forum for in depth questions? I’d like to provide specifics about my account so I can calculate with your help. Thanks so very much!
My email is debbie@pinnaclepersonnelservices.com
I worked as a fireman for 20 years and I was retired out on a disability pension at age 55. Worked side jobs that had SS taken out ( 40 + quarters ). Does the WEP still effect me even though I was medically pensioned out of my job. Tks in advance for any reply...
When you worked as a FF, George, was that under a system (like CSRS) that didn't pay into Social Security? If yes and you didn't pay into Social Security for 30 years, WEP can still affect you.
The SSA says, WEP applies if both the following are true:
• You earn a retirement or disability pension from an employer who didn’t withhold Social Security taxes.
• You qualify for Social Security retirement or disability benefits from work in other jobs for which you did pay taxes.
Additionally, WEP can apply if one of the following is true:
• You reached age 62 after 1985.
• You developed a qualifying disability after 1985.
If the latter applies, you must first have become eligible for a monthly pension based on work where you didn’t pay Social Security taxes after 1985.
Read more here: www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf
Great information Debbie. I am a subscriber and love to watch your vides and helpful information. This video addressed lot of issues about WEP and helped. I have an additional question please:
If the low earner spouse doesn't have full 40 credit (worked only 2 years paid in SS) but also woreked10 years with School District or has TRS ( Very low benefits < 200 per month). She has not filed or taken her TRS benefits yet.
1) Can she gets spousal benefits and how much.
2) Is it wise if she withdraw all TRS pension . Her TRS allows full withdrawal.
3) How is WEP affect her since she is filing on Spouse higher earner benefits. Thanks.
Tonight I've found several comments that were written a couple of months ago. Yours was one of those. I apologize for not writing sooner but I didn't see the message. I'm thrilled you're a subscriber and find the videos helpful.
WEP and GPO are both triggered by the person receiving a pension from the system that didn't pay into Social Security, Until your spouse files for her retirement,
1) She can get a spousal benefit provided she is already 62, AND you are collecting your SS. It would be 50% of whatever your benefit is, minus any applicable penalties based on her age. For example, if she is only 62 but her full retirement age is 67, her penalty is 30% so she'd receive: (Your benefit X 50%) - 30%.
2) I don't know. The two of you need to complete a cost benefit analysis.
a) If she files for retirement, she will get XX per month but will not be able to collect any SS. How much is that every month?
b) If she withdraws her pension in a lump sum, she will get SS. How much is that every month?
c) What is the difference between a and b? Divide the amount she'll receive in a lump sum by this number. That will tell you the number of months to break even. Once you get to this point, if you need help, feel free to email me (debbie@pinnaclepersonnelservices.com) or add a comment here.
3) WEP would be applied to her own benefits, IF she had 40 quarters and was eligible to receive a benefit. The Government Pension Offset (GPO) is a mirrored piece of legislation that effects spousal benefits. She IS entitled to half of your, minus any penalties mentions in #1 BUT before she gets it, SS would subtract 2/3 of her TRS. Here's a link for GPO. www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10007.pdf
@@debbiehatch8016
Great information
Thank you. I was unclear about WEP as I have two small pensions and was unsure if they could affect my ssn amount when I retire as I've been paying ssn for all of my over 35 working years. These two pensions were fully paid for as a company benefit... I did not contribute anything... so not sure if I am risk for a reduction of some sort.
So long as you have paid into Social Security for 30 years of substantial earnings, Glenn (and it sounds like you have), you will not be at risk for a reduction. See page two of this document for what constitutes "substantial earnings". www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf
@@debbiehatch8016 thank you.. and yes I've met over 35 years of substantial.
WEP affects 1.5 million people per year!
You didn’t say the per year part, that’s pretty important.
Thanks for your comment. I assumed that was a given. Apparently not.
You are a genius! Thanks so much for your very clear and concise explanation. I understand WEP now.
That makes me very happy!! Thanks so much for letting me know, Mark.
Hi, Debbie
Thank you so much for the fantastic presentation. I would appreciate if you can discuss how wep provision will affect my SSS benefit if I claim my Canadian pension plan and old age benefit. I also can claim my Philippine social security benefit. These benefits are not yet claimed by me yet.
I apologize for the delay in getting back to you. It's the end of the federal fiscal year and things have been a little crazy.
When we speak of a person getting old age benefits in different countries, we need to look at Totalization Agreements and it can get complicated with two. You're asking about three. Social Security has created this fact sheet about TAs. You may find it helpful. www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v78n4/v78n4p1.html
Synopsis for Canada: "When a U.S. benefit becomes payable as a result of counting both U.S. and Canadian Social Security credits, an initial benefit is determined based on your U.S. earnings as if your entire career had been completed under the U.S. system. This initial benefit is then reduced to reflect the fact that Canadian credits helped to make the benefit payable. The amount of the reduction will depend on the number of U.S. credits: the more U.S. credits, the smaller the reduction; and the fewer U.S. credits, the larger the reduction." Read more here: www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/canada.html
All of that^^^ said, your foreign pension can cause Social Security in the US to apply the Windfall Elimination Provision.
- If you've paid into Social Security for at least 10 years, you are eligible for the benefit.
- If you paid into Social Security for 30 years, WEP no longer applies.
- If you paid in between 10 and 30 years, though WEP will mean a different formula is applied in the first line (only) of your computation exactly as I explained in this video.
For 2022, here is the SS WEP Factsheet. www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf
Is there a place to start to get estimates from SS and Canada to calculate everything without actually starting the payments? We are still deciding on timing for starting and when to quit work. This would be so helpful.
Hi @@debbiehatch8016 Could you please help me? I'm widow I'm 60 years. I have a pension in Mexico by my own work. I never worked in U.S. I wanna apply for widow benefits. My question is Social Security will reduce the amount on my widow benefits due my mexican pension?
Thank you in advance.
@@JMaV.B I am a US Federal retirement and Social Security specialist. I don't know anything about the Mexican pension. You may want to check with your government officials about any offsets.
@@debbiehatch8016 Yes, I would like to know if my mexican pension will affect my US widow benefits. I was wondering if this will active WEP or GPO? Thank you.
Teachers need total repeals of WEP and Government Pension Offset. HR 82 and S 1302.
Due to a House of Representatives rule, adopted at the start of the 116th Congress and carried forward since then, the sponsor of any bill that accrues 290 cosponsors (there are 302 for this one) may file a motion to place the bill on the House Consensus Calendar. If the bill then maintains the 290 cosponsors for 25 legislative days, it will be placed on the calendar; the House must consider at least one bill from the calendar each week that the House is in session. Any bill on the calendar will remain there until it is considered by the full House, or “reported by the committee of primary jurisdiction” - in this case the House Committee on Ways and Means.
H.R. 82 accrued its 25 days on September 19, setting the stage for a House floor vote last week. With that vote imminent, the House Committee on Ways and Means held a committee business meeting where it reported the bill. In doing so, it removed the bill from the House Consensus Calendar, avoiding a floor vote. On September 20, the House Committee on Ways and Means voted to report the Social Security Fairness Act, H.R. 82, out of committee, but without recommendation.
While it was clear the purpose of the hearing was to prevent a floor vote on full repeal - due to concerns about Social Security solvency, primarily, according to committee leaders - every committee member who spoke at the hearing expressed a desire to address the inequities of WEP and GPO. Committee leaders support a more limited approach to reform WEP/GPO, as opposed to full repeal, but they did commit to working towards an agreement on mitigating the effect of the penalties. Ultimately, there was reason for both hope and concern about the prospects of future action.
This is the furthest a bill to repeal the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) and the Government Pension Offset (GPO) has advanced through the congressional process, and committee members expressed support for addressing the issue in some way, but the future path for the bill remains uncertain.
Pay into the system !!!
Debbie, I worked one state job and paid 20 substantial years into SS however the last 10 years in that position I did not pay into SS as we switched to a different pension. Now I have a pension from the job. I also worked another state job for 30 years and did not pay into SS. SS is telling me my SS (20 years) is wiped out due to both of my pensions are over $12k per month. I am confused as I paid into SS and I receive zero from SS.I thought my SS is only wiped out by 40% as your chart shows.Thanks BB
Hi Barry. Thank you so much for reaching out and asking your question. It's not "my" chart. I simply applied math from the Social Security Administration's chart ( www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf ). WEP should never eliminate your benefit; simply (significantly at times) decrease it and not by 40% as you state. The ONLY thing WEP does is change the first line of a 3 line formula.
For 2021, the primary insurance amount is calculated by multiplying 90% by the first $996 of a person's average indexed monthly earnings, plus 32% of the average indexed monthly earnings over $996 and through $6,002, plus 15% earnings over $6,002. WEP changes line one; it has no impact on lines 2 or 3. I created the table by multiplying 90% X 996 (the regular non-WEP formula) and then 40% X 996 (the maximum reduction for WEP). Please note too the WEP reduction is limited to no more than 50% of your pension from non-covered employment. If they have taken 100% of your benefit, you need to engage with SSA and file an appeal. Please keep me posted!!
Thankyou!
You're very welcome.
I have 9 years of substantial earnings (more credits that didn’t make the substantial minimum). but work for a school for the last 5 years Can I earn more credits by working part time while I work for the school to reduce the WEP?
By working an extra part time job do I have to meet the substantial minimum to begin to eliminate the WEP?
You can earn more credits by working part-time, yes. To reduce / eliminate WEP, they have to be years of substantial earnings.
Good morning
What's email that I can send a detail SS question to you ?
Thank you
debbie@pinnaclepersonnelservices.com
Thank you so much - this has been the best explanation I have come across!
Thank you! Glad it was helpful.
Can I collect from my spouses SS if WEP applies to me?
I'm confused, Debbie. In your example with the Air Force retiree - he was in the Air Force for 24 years. Active military pays into SS, just like a regular job. Then he worked another 24 years for DOD as a civilian....I believe as a federal employee, he did NOT pay into SS. So given that he only paid into SS during the 24 years he served (not 30) in the Air Force, isn't he subject to WEP? Unless I'm missing something, he did not have 30 years of substantial income while paying into SS.
I'm so glad you took the time to ask your question Dave. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify. As you've said, he DID pay into Social Security while he was in the Air Force. This employee was a civilian employee under the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). Unlike CSRS, FERS does participate in Social Security. This person has 48 years of substantial earnings for Social Security. Had he been a federal civilian under the old CSRS, he would not have had 30 years and WEP would have applied to him.
@@debbiehatch8016 Ah, that's what I was mssing. Thanks. I'm approaching retirement and doing lots of research. Thank you so much...very informative video!
@@davervatx8814 Perfect. Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions as you do your research.
You explained it perfectly. Well done!
Thank you so much for the feedback.
Look people this happened when Regan was President I don't know if this was the fist big fight against union's but this law can be replied u have to start calling your congress person and senator and change this law u earn this money u paid into the ss u don't deserve to be penalize for getting a better job or just getting another job that has a petition it's unfair
This was a bi- partisan effort. Leave politics out of this.
@@SandfordSmythe DO YOUR RESEARCH
@@georgetheturthurts SS was running out of money and something needed to be done.Politicians were hung up on politics (like you), so a bi-partisan commission was appointed to settle this all. It was done in a backroom and compromises were made. The findings were made public as a unified plan. There was an expectation that all would endorse it, and it would be passed as law.
@@SandfordSmythe there no such thing as running out of money
@@georgetheturthurts Running out of enough money to fully pay benefits. So then, what's the logic of your point?
Social security cut my benefits by 200$ because they claim I filed for my German pension (which I didn’t) I wrote them and faxed them that I did not file for my German pension. I have not heard from them and don’t know what to do. Any suggestions to get my money back from them?
Proving a negative is a very hard thing to do and that's what they're asking you for. My suggestion would be to request official documentation from the Germany pension office that you have not applied for and are not receiving anything from them.
I’m from Germany and worked there 23 years, so why do I fall under windfall elimination, I worked also 26 years in the US ?
You would have had to work in the US for 30 years with substantial Social Security earnings in order for the WEP to not apply.
@@debbiehatch8016 thanks for the reply. I also found out in the meantime from Germany that I can apply for my German pension now without loosing any money, because they combine the US and German earnings. BUT if I apply now (and I want to since they deduct me anyway) it will all messed up and they will get so confused that they may think I try to cheat and cut my social security all together off. I called them and they say that they will fix it but it takes a little time. I’m giving them a couple of month, the. I will write to all addresses that I have from social security and sent them faxes to all numbers and let them know that since they deducted me windfall and don’t seem to give me the money back I will file for the German pension. I’m really mad at them for messing up peoples money
@@beautyRest1 It seems that you have two choices. (a) File for your German pension and just know that your SS is going to have the WEP applied from here on out but SHOULD pay you from what they have improperly withheld up to this point or (b) Request proof that you have not applied for your German pension and go through the process of getting the WEP eliminated. Please let me know how it goes or how I can help.
@@debbiehatch8016 thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it very very much. I give it some thought and let you know what I decide!
This has been the most informative video that I've seen on this topic. Debbie, I have 33+ years in the NY State pension with 9 of those years with NYC for which I did not pay social security taxes. These 9 years are accurately listed as 0 under my social security earnings for those years and my annual social security estimate clearly takes those years into consideration. But I only get one pension and have 25 years of substantial earnings. Do you feel that I will be hit with the WEP provision?
Thank you so much. You need 30 years of substantial earnings in order to WEP not to apply. That said, with 25 years, you'd receive 65% vs 90% times the first 1,024 of Average Indexed Monthly Earnings (a penalty of $256 / month). Here's a link to the 2022 WEP Factsheet. www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf
@@debbiehatch8016 So is the estimate I get every year accurate or is the WEP applied after the estimate?
@@jetpro3 WEP is applied after the estimate you see.
Hi,
Please let me know if there are any changes coming or elimination of the WEP
JP
They talk about it all the time - I don't have a lot of confidence it's going anywhere but I will keep you posted.
Hey knuckle heads: if you did not pay into the system fully you DO NOT get the full amount!!! Duh.. teachers having a hard time understanding this. Well, "educators" do your homework!!
The real problem is that WEP only applies to people who did pay into the system fully. 40 quarters = 10 years for every one of us. Those that also worked under a system that didn't pay in have the penalty. I understand the intent of the law and the reason it was passed, but...
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