I still remember the first time (and only time) I worked on a 2 stroke Detroit diesel. It was a v8. Bout all I know about it. Other than it was straight piped and installed in a white cab over hay truck. The engine we took out had 3 windows in the block. So the replacement went in. When we started it up, it was loud, as in plug you ears loud. And that was at idle. Then the mechanic revved it up. I thought it was running something like 6,000 rpm. That noise terrified me. Then the shop owner walked over with a shop tachometer and plugged it into a tach port and the engine was only turning 2200 or 2300 rpm. He said, yep, that governor is working fine. I never liked getting near that engine while it was in the shop because it just flat out scared me and I thought it was going to blow up. It didn’t.
Roots type superchargers were originally developed for use in mines to bring water out of mineshafts in the 1850's. They were adapted for use in motors!
I would rather trust the old oil bath air cleaner over the paper cartridge's one. This conversion to a paper filter was done poorly and the consequence is a failed blower. I would say this is one of the cleanest 6-71 oil pans seen in many many moons.
But the lyrics said "if it can make it to the top" , Scott will put it in the shop where it's new life has begun. Problem is bus couldn't make it to the top. Yet Scott put it in the shop. Just kidding. Love that song.
Wow, thanks for showing the ill fit you referred to in the comments of the previous video. I would describe the conversion from oil bath to paper as "almost worked". But the horse shoes and hand grenades rule certainly applied to this scenario. Great forensics Scott!
Are you going to do a poll to see who people think got the better deal, Oz or Lenny? Lenny is looking pretty sweet now but Oz will be getting an engine overall. (Assuming all costs equal of course). Me, I'm leaning towards Lenny because he looks like a new animal now for a young 70 ish. Oz though gets new life for his bus engine, so he may be really happy.
It's amazing when you do your tear down you have to be part detective to see what went wrong to begin with so you know not to do it like the other people did. Knowing what went wrong with it gives you more confidence on the build back
Hum hope I never need a hook. If in your area I may take my tractor up to your place and my problem yours. But know it a one fix. All I get is a repair to get me to next repair then my mechanic fixes all the fixes. Bus monkey looks at cause not just the problem. Keep it up. And glad you have a cub that’s learning.
That engine has been eating dirt and debris for a while. Hopefully the block and head are still square and just clean them up and reassemble in that area. Those bearings weren't happy puppies either. One this is for sure though...when it is all put back together that bus is gonna fly up the hill with pedal left to go I am guessing. Thanks for the detailed analysis of the various parts as they came off and things that weren't right for whatever reason. I have learned alot about these engines and when I stack it next to just about any other modern ish engine...it's no wonder these are still logging miles and hours after all of these years. It was a solid design and meant to have a long life without major work needing to be performed. GM truly belted it way out of the park with these engines. Thanks for the top notch videos Scott🙂
I think for a bus you are probably correct. I drove a 1966 GMC Crackerbox truck, pulled a dump trailer with it. Pulling 73 to 76,000 pounds it was slow and used a lot of fuel at best about 4 MPG . I prefer the 8V71, or better yet the 8V92. Still fuel mileage wasn't good. I always pulled max loads . I liked Mack and Cummins engines better. Still the sound of a 2 stroke can't be beat.
Ouch...sorry for Oz.. OMG another hack rebuild. Good thing he has friends, like you guys who do the job right, everytime. Good people and, good mechanic,s are hard to find. I guess l don,t need to tell you guys that though.lol. Thanx again for being both. Sincerely, you guys are the best. ✌️❤️😊
I could see in the last video how bad those three cylinders were towards the back of the engine I didn’t see the blow by however. I would think that you’d have to deck the block in that instance. I do all my gas rebuilds by decking the block because the factory never gets it right. Or could it be the head that’s warped because it’s so large? I have a small block with an 871 blower on it and it doesn’t have the teflon rotor bearing strips like your do. I would think that would actually be better for wear and sealing for boost. Oh well enough of me yakking. Love your videos.
So either liner protrusion is incorrect or is the cylinder head warped ? Man those blowers are heavy. No wonder it was struggling to start. Makes for great viewing. Thanks as always for sharing.
That thing had cotter pins on the rod studs so it most be mid 60s late 50s, the liners should have been the small port ones if it is a 2 valve, that head never sealed right, it has to have shims in the liners. If not mistaken, the 4 valve head used a different ratio gear in the back for the blower plus at least N65 if running @ 2100 rpms, advance timing for sure. Wonder what the blower shaft looks like at the ends, same goes for the fuel pump fork. You did mention putting a 4V head on a 2V head engine, was the increase in power noticable? just doing that. Do like the 4 valves heads, but they tend to crack at the bone, stress relife cavity.
Did not see any mention of the condition of the crank journals although at some point they must have been turned down .030 given the bearing shells removed.
Still loving but guess I've missed something. Did Leroy pass away? Could someone answer that for me. Also I assume Tyler left the business. Thanks for your great videos
Scott, can you explain to the people about how when you pull the sleeves and the crank bearings are just inspected and not replaced or gapped when you rebuild the motor.
Doing a slide in bearings is common. What most don’t do when rolling in bearings is new damper. But why replace bearings when they good. I bet he did the tape and checked. I guess you never checked barring clearance.
Im at the understanding that these engines are great engines and personally have found with most things in that age range, built to last. I would like to know if anyone has found problems with a warped head on this type of engine and if so what the max in thousandth could be milled?
Could I give some constructive criticism without offending you? You need a remote Mic bro, I always have to turn my volume way up to hear you. Otherwise...I love you. :)
I wonder if the last person to rebuild it even checked the liner height? Probably wasn't built by person who knew what liner height spec was. It's a wonder that the liners didn't hop around and cause water leaks internally. I've seen that with worn out 6V92TAs we had in the 1991 TMC 40' coaches we had. Found it by pulling a hill and getting the engine hot. Dropping the pan quickly and looking at the bottom of the liner with the coolant hot and under pressure.
digging into 60+ year old engines is a great moment and reminder when America was civilized. I have old industrial equipment i use everyday all designed and built without computers
Scott, I'm confused. Can you clarify in your next video what the history of this engine is? You eluded that this engine has your two valve head? But you did say a shop put it on. Also you said this engine only has 2000 miles on it. Unless I missed it in a previous video I'm not following the sequence of events that lead up to you now rebuilding this engine. Please help clarify. Thanks!
My bus is on the pit right now and another one got repaired last week on it. I never said the pit was for engine rebuilds. That would not be convenient to rebuild engines on the pit
11:11 Lifting that blower off and to the ground together would of been smarter, than letting that lad awkwardly struggle on his own with it. That is how you hurt or mess your back up from a young age.
They are not smooth. They are T shaped with a wide ring around the top of the liner. The block has a ledge machined in it for that ring. Normally what you do with them is clean up both surfaces really good then slip in the bare liner. Next you measure from the block deck (top surface) to the top of the liner. Then use shims if needed to set the liner height so they seal properly. Then the gasket and crush ring squeezes that ring at the top and that holds the liner in place.
@wernerdanler2742 the top diameter of the liner is about 1/4 inch larger than the diameter of the rest of the liner. The larger diameter extends down about 1/4 inch inch from the top of the liner. The liner sits in a couterbore in the block. The compression gasket fits on top of the liner and gets "crushed" down by the head. The height of the liners is critical so that each liner gets equal crush to prevent leaks. The heights can be adjusted with shims.
Back on the farm 40 years ago the boss brought in a used Oliver tractor with a 2-stroke Detroit in it that completely mystified me. Everything else on the place was 4-stroke diesel. It had no visible injector lines, strange intake, and sounded like a banshee at 2K on the tach. Grew to love it, and now I have 2 busses with Detroits 🙂
Wow sad . If you can keep the oil air bath cleaners original then do so. They were not designed to be modified. Hopefully you can find 3 filters and return them back to Normal
Save a dollar cost a thousand . Just shaking my head at the lengths people go to not even realising the consequences .Either convert to full paper filter/housing or leave the oil bath system simple really .
@@BusGreaseMonkey did... replaced the main fuel hose this morning, checked the fuel filter if its full of deisel which it was and detached the line that recycled the fuel back into the tank and feul was coming out. Maby I need to put an external electric pump on it because it wasn't getting enough pressure?
And THAT, dear viewers is how you steal the Blower from a 6-71 to fit on your Hemi...... 🤣 Yes - this is where 6-71 blowers came from for Old-School Hot-Rodding!
Death by previous owner. A dusted engine is so sad as it’s completely avoidable. Folks that don’t like oil bath air cleaners should not own equipment of any sort.
@@BusGreaseMonkeyI agree. But as a tractor owner respect what you do. as we have same issues and we all understand when a fix just needs to be fixed again. With great respect for a good mechanic that does it right looks at cause not the problem. That’s priceless. I wish life was a small bock Chevy. Set points with paper to get one home lol. Plus plus.
Wow that’s the only good Detroit. I bet that’s the only Detroit you know except for the dd15 with emissions. So we see you you know 2 Detroit motors one that your trainer told you and what you drive.
The only reason for the series 60 Detroit was emissions. It's just not possible to make a two stroke Detroit conform to current emission standards. There are millions of older Detroit's out there doing their job, are you just going to try and ignore them?
I still remember the first time (and only time) I worked on a 2 stroke Detroit diesel. It was a v8. Bout all I know about it. Other than it was straight piped and installed in a white cab over hay truck. The engine we took out had 3 windows in the block. So the replacement went in. When we started it up, it was loud, as in plug you ears loud. And that was at idle. Then the mechanic revved it up. I thought it was running something like 6,000 rpm. That noise terrified me. Then the shop owner walked over with a shop tachometer and plugged it into a tach port and the engine was only turning 2200 or 2300 rpm. He said, yep, that governor is working fine. I never liked getting near that engine while it was in the shop because it just flat out scared me and I thought it was going to blow up. It didn’t.
To hear a Detroit Diesel engine running is an actual symphony..music to my ears. Better than Gummins or Powercroak
Roots type superchargers were originally developed for use in mines to bring water out of mineshafts in the 1850's. They were adapted for use in motors!
That hill makes for a convenient dyno. Nice theme song too.
I would rather trust the old oil bath air cleaner over the paper cartridge's one. This conversion to a paper filter was done poorly and the consequence is a failed blower. I would say this is one of the cleanest 6-71 oil pans seen in many many moons.
Scott will put it in the shop till their new life has begun
They gonna git that big job done.
But the lyrics said "if it can make it to the top" , Scott will put it in the shop where it's new life has begun.
Problem is bus couldn't make it to the top. Yet Scott put it in the shop. Just kidding. Love that song.
That is what the tractor is for. The ones that can’t make it to the top.
So sad that someone ruined the engine and blower with that half-baked air cleaner setup.
This is a good example of why certain things you do not change on a vehicle. Can lead to a very bad day like this 😮😊
if ain't broke, don't fix...
Even more sad is that bus costed more than what the first owners paid for their house
Scott, thanks for this tear-down video and your analysis of the multiple failure points. Great lessons in this video. :)
Testament to how good those Detroit's are; run bad but still run on about 1/3 of its bang holes.
Well done Scott, another accurate diagnosis that explains the reason why the engine was down on power. It's going to be good when you guys are done.
This poor motor needs some serious intense care to survive 💔💔
This is what I loved most about your channel. Actually engine work, so enjoyable to watch and learn.
Wow, thanks for showing the ill fit you referred to in the comments of the previous video. I would describe the conversion from oil bath to paper as "almost worked". But the horse shoes and hand grenades rule certainly applied to this scenario. Great forensics Scott!
Keep the videos coming, this has been a great series
Great video. Thank you for documenting this!
can't wait to see how much more power it's going to have when you guys get done. Nice video content. Thank you.
Are you going to do a poll to see who people think got the better deal, Oz or Lenny? Lenny is looking pretty sweet now but Oz will be getting an engine overall. (Assuming all costs equal of course). Me, I'm leaning towards Lenny because he looks like a new animal now for a young 70 ish. Oz though gets new life for his bus engine, so he may be really happy.
It's amazing when you do your tear down you have to be part detective to see what went wrong to begin with so you know not to do it like the other people did. Knowing what went wrong with it gives you more confidence on the build back
Thanks for the great video and overview
Tyler, we miss you
Where did he go?
@@armorer94 Back to Indy to pursue a career other than as a mechanic.
Look 👀 ing forward to the rebuild of this bastardized engine. Thanks for sharing!
Hum hope I never need a hook. If in your area I may take my tractor up to your place and my problem yours. But know it a one fix. All I get is a repair to get me to next repair then my mechanic fixes all the fixes. Bus monkey looks at cause not just the problem. Keep it up. And glad you have a cub that’s learning.
Glad that Oz is getting some new power in his beautiful 04
Amazing that these engines are so repairable
That engine has been eating dirt and debris for a while. Hopefully the block and head are still square and just clean them up and reassemble in that area. Those bearings weren't happy puppies either. One this is for sure though...when it is all put back together that bus is gonna fly up the hill with pedal left to go I am guessing.
Thanks for the detailed analysis of the various parts as they came off and things that weren't right for whatever reason. I have learned alot about these engines and when I stack it next to just about any other modern ish engine...it's no wonder these are still logging miles and hours after all of these years. It was a solid design and meant to have a long life without major work needing to be performed. GM truly belted it way out of the park with these engines. Thanks for the top notch videos Scott🙂
I think for a bus you are probably correct. I drove a 1966 GMC Crackerbox truck, pulled a dump trailer with it. Pulling 73 to 76,000 pounds it was slow and used a lot of fuel at best about 4 MPG . I prefer the 8V71, or better yet the 8V92. Still fuel mileage wasn't good. I always pulled max loads . I liked Mack and Cummins engines better. Still the sound of a 2 stroke can't be beat.
Ouch...sorry for Oz..
OMG another hack rebuild.
Good thing he has friends, like you guys who do the job right, everytime.
Good people and, good mechanic,s are hard to find.
I guess l don,t need to tell you guys that though.lol.
Thanx again for being both.
Sincerely, you guys are the best.
✌️❤️😊
It’ll be great seeing that old beauty racing up the run
Better bring all your credit cards
I could see in the last video how bad those three cylinders were towards the back of the engine I didn’t see the blow by however. I would think that you’d have to deck the block in that instance. I do all my gas rebuilds by decking the block because the factory never gets it right. Or could it be the head that’s warped because it’s so large? I have a small block with an 871 blower on it and it doesn’t have the teflon rotor bearing strips like your do. I would think that would actually be better for wear and sealing for boost. Oh well enough of me yakking. Love your videos.
Yes that was a scared liner. I bet caused from high silica dirt
Liner recesses are not too spec. Crush ring with carbon buildup, is the giveaway there.
Trashed blower. Not a good time.
Glad it wernt Lenny, now let's turbo that 671❤
They did a great job on that song
Safety glasses would be appropriate, especially under the engine.
The state of the air filters... Soul destroying..
Why we see liners destroyed
@@c.a.mcneil7599
The dirt went into the cylinders through the slots, thereby destroying the liners.
Sad how much just wasn’t done right
Большой нагнетатель! Капитальный ремонт. Классное видео получилось! Мне понравилось! Круто Круто!!!
its indeed clear where the missing horses where going Scot! 👍
Super cool. You guys doing a great job. What is average price for a complete engine rebuild on one of those buses.
So either liner protrusion is incorrect or is the cylinder head warped ? Man those blowers are heavy. No wonder it was struggling to start. Makes for great viewing. Thanks as always for sharing.
Definitely don't want to drop that blower on your foot 😮
That thing had cotter pins on the rod studs so it most be mid 60s late 50s, the liners should have been the small port ones if it is a 2 valve, that head never sealed right, it has to have shims in the liners. If not mistaken, the 4 valve head used a different ratio gear in the back for the blower plus at least N65 if running @ 2100 rpms, advance timing for sure. Wonder what the blower shaft looks like at the ends, same goes for the fuel pump fork.
You did mention putting a 4V head on a 2V head engine, was the increase in power noticable? just doing that.
Do like the 4 valves heads, but they tend to crack at the bone, stress relife cavity.
Oh Boy a case where dirt does hurt 😢
May God bless you all the name of Jesus Christ Amen❤
Did not see any mention of the condition of the crank journals although at some point they must have been turned down .030 given the bearing shells removed.
Kind of amazing how on small engines any blow by is quite apparent but on these behemoths.. not so much.
is it possible that the head was re installed with used crush rings on it?
Looks like that bus will be living at Scott's house for a good while
not necessarily.
Yes I would say motor done now fix all the fixes. That takes time.
Was the crush rings leaking due to the liners sitting too far into the block??
Still loving but guess I've missed something. Did Leroy pass away? Could someone answer that for me. Also I assume Tyler left the business. Thanks for your great videos
Are those cylinder sleeves dry sleeves or wet sleeves?
Scott, when you broke the head bolts were they all torqued down? With all that blow-by Looks like that head was loose or maybe warped.
They were all nearly identical borderline accidentally squeezing out a fart while trying to loosen them kinda tight…
Is a 4 valve head more power?
Scott, can you explain to the people about how when you pull the sleeves and the crank bearings are just inspected and not replaced or gapped when you rebuild the motor.
Doing a slide in bearings is common. What most don’t do when rolling in bearings is new damper. But why replace bearings when they good. I bet he did the tape and checked. I guess you never checked barring clearance.
All crank bearings will all be replaced
I'd love to come and work for you, but im in the UK!
767 baby
Are you going too change out the blower, or can you overhaul it?
iv just got back from australia can anyone tell me where's tyler/////
He went on to other work. He didnt enjoy wrenching any more. Not sure if he went back to Indiana.
Im at the understanding that these engines are great engines and personally have found with most things in that age range, built to last. I would like to know if anyone has found problems with a warped head on this type of engine and if so what the max in thousandth could be milled?
Detroits (and many other engines of those days) were designed to be fully rebuildable. Unlike many modern engines that are disposable.
Could I give some constructive criticism without offending you? You need a remote Mic bro, I always have to turn my volume way up to hear you. Otherwise...I love you. :)
Put some headphones on you can hear everything.
@@jinglebells1238 Screw You.
That 318 Detroit engine was wore out. My question is will you be replacing the Blower?
I wonder if the last person to rebuild it even checked the liner height? Probably wasn't built by person who knew what liner height spec was.
It's a wonder that the liners didn't hop around and cause water leaks internally. I've seen that with worn out 6V92TAs we had in the 1991 TMC 40' coaches we had.
Found it by pulling a hill and getting the engine hot. Dropping the pan quickly and looking at the bottom of the liner with the coolant hot and under pressure.
Wow that had to be a fun time , but you found the issue
blower is shot. liners are junk. head is going to need to be checked.
digging into 60+ year old engines is a great moment and reminder when America was civilized. I have old industrial equipment i use everyday all designed and built without computers
What happened to tyler? Have not seen him in a while.
🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
Scott, I'm confused. Can you clarify in your next video what the history of this engine is? You eluded that this engine has your two valve head? But you did say a shop put it on. Also you said this engine only has 2000 miles on it. Unless I missed it in a previous video I'm not following the sequence of events that lead up to you now rebuilding this engine. Please help clarify.
Thanks!
The engine rebuild is decades old. It over heated maybe 2k miles ago and cracked a head. I sold them my old head and just the head was swapped
I thought you built the pit to help with In frame rebuilds. Did it not work out?
My bus is on the pit right now and another one got repaired last week on it. I never said the pit was for engine rebuilds. That would not be convenient to rebuild engines on the pit
Thank you I thought the pit was a great idea for you. I was hoping it worked out. A lot of work and cost. Great channel
What's the plan for the blower? Can it be cleaned or is it too far gone?
blowers can be rebuilt for reasonable money if i remember correctly.
The cleanest engine had the biggest problem!
11:11 Lifting that blower off and to the ground together would of been smarter, than letting that lad awkwardly struggle on his own with it. That is how you hurt or mess your back up from a young age.
Where is Tyler?
He returned to Indy.
Where is your two guys?
What holds those sleeves in and keeps them from just going up and down with the piston?
The cylinder head holds them in.
@tpcoachfix .Thanks, but what keeps it from sliding down?
They are not smooth. They are T shaped with a wide ring around the top of the liner. The block has a ledge machined in it for that ring. Normally what you do with them is clean up both surfaces really good then slip in the bare liner. Next you measure from the block deck (top surface) to the top of the liner. Then use shims if needed to set the liner height so they seal properly. Then the gasket and crush ring squeezes that ring at the top and that holds the liner in place.
A lip at the top fits into a recessed area at the top of the block
@wernerdanler2742 the top diameter of the liner is about 1/4 inch larger than the diameter of the rest of the liner. The larger diameter extends down about 1/4 inch inch from the top of the liner.
The liner sits in a couterbore in the block.
The compression gasket fits on top of the liner and gets "crushed" down by the head.
The height of the liners is critical so that each liner gets equal crush to prevent leaks.
The heights can be adjusted with shims.
How many horse power do you think he was losing from this bad engine ?
75 would be a good guess. N65’s is 238 - 75 = 163
What has happened to Scott’s son? I don’t see him in any of those videos anymore and there’s another guy helping.
Finkle and Einhorn... Wait. Finkle "is" Einhorn.
Maybe he should go with a 4 valve head as well.
$5k more to do that… let’s just fix what he’s got for now.
That block most likely needs to be decked.
Back on the farm 40 years ago the boss brought in a used Oliver tractor with a 2-stroke Detroit in it that completely mystified me. Everything else on the place was 4-stroke diesel. It had no visible injector lines, strange intake, and sounded like a banshee at 2K on the tach. Grew to love it, and now I have 2 busses with Detroits 🙂
Wow sad . If you can keep the oil air bath cleaners original then do so. They were not designed to be modified. Hopefully you can find 3 filters and return them back to Normal
Save a dollar cost a thousand . Just shaking my head at the lengths people go to not even realising the consequences .Either convert to full paper filter/housing or leave the oil bath system simple really .
time to flush that fuel tank out...
Do you know that's wrong with a 6-71 if it won't idle and only run on starting fluid? ) : been try for days
No fuel. Check fuel pump or fuel supply
@@BusGreaseMonkey did... replaced the main fuel hose this morning, checked the fuel filter if its full of deisel which it was and detached the line that recycled the fuel back into the tank and feul was coming out. Maby I need to put an external electric pump on it because it wasn't getting enough pressure?
@@BusGreaseMonkey I put good fuel in it to...
Check that the rack is moving. Might be stuck in the no fuel position
@@BusGreaseMonkey but wouldn't it not run of starting fluid if that was stuck closed?
Please try to retrofit a proper paper air filter
Oil bath for the win.
With the 71 and 92 series you couldnt lug the engine 🙂
And THAT, dear viewers is how you steal the Blower from a 6-71 to fit on your Hemi...... 🤣 Yes - this is where 6-71 blowers came from for Old-School Hot-Rodding!
Death by previous owner.
A dusted engine is so sad as it’s completely avoidable. Folks that don’t like oil bath air cleaners should not own equipment of any sort.
you need to talk louder or get a headset
The only good Detroit is a series 60
You are in the wrong place
@@BusGreaseMonkeyI agree. But as a tractor owner respect what you do. as we have same issues and we all understand when a fix just needs to be fixed again. With great respect for a good mechanic that does it right looks at cause not the problem. That’s priceless. I wish life was a small bock Chevy. Set points with paper to get one home lol. Plus plus.
Wow that’s the only good Detroit. I bet that’s the only Detroit you know except for the dd15 with emissions. So we see you you know 2 Detroit motors one that your trainer told you and what you drive.
The only reason for the series 60 Detroit was emissions. It's just not possible to make a two stroke Detroit conform to current emission standards. There are millions of older Detroit's out there doing their job, are you just going to try and ignore them?
Are the inside walls of the blower scored pretty bad?
That's an early motor two valves per cylinder instead of four