Another wonderful and important episode Ron. Hard to understate the importance of this unique relationship between these two grande figures of the CSA- especially in these last chapters of the war. They had to have known the end was near- and one wonders if Davis could have spared more lives by accepting rather than denying the obvious. The desertion levels at this time were clear indications that the soldiers saw what Davis refused to accept. As for gold, then as now, all paper money dies a slow debasement/death when a nation (over extended by debt and war) monetizes its debt with the scourge of inflation. In the end, gold is the only real money that holds its value. Sound familiar today?
All the gold ever mined in the world would only fill up 3 or 4 Olympic swimming pools. That's why it's so astronomically valuable. And most of it exists in the form of jewelry. So how could we go back to using gold for money today? The defense budget alone would break Fort Knox. It's an impossible dream. We're stuck with what we have.
Lee is hesitant to take the move that Longstreet KNOWS is necessary, regarding the gold. Perhaps Lee accepted at this point that the war was soon to be over and he didn't want to burn the South's 'seed corn'? If I'm Longstreet and I got that response from Lee, I'd recognize the jig was almost up and do everything I could to reduce casualties going forward.
Yes indeed. Many rebel soldiers did indeed "reduce casualties going forward", their own, by surrendering to union forces or by simply deserting and going home
Yes. It seems Lee thought the whole matter of chasing gold by 1865 was impractical and quickly got off that topic and talked only of military logistic matters. Longstreet thought his own suggestion was too easily dismissed. Lee, who had more wealth than Longstreet probably knew his class of people and thought that you couldn't rob ("impress") the only citizens left who "might" have any assets left. A kind of "What are we fighting for if our own country is taking all of our remaining assets?" Lee who lost Arlington early on, may have thought that by 1865 most citizens with gold already had sent it west by now since bummers' reputation was already known for finding anything. Lee figured there is no or much gold "in them thar hills." BUT, I DO KNOW WHERE there was gold. $200,000. And in today's dollars that's $3.9 million! It was in the Sad Hill Cemetery near Glorieta Pass in New Mexico. It was in the grave "Unknown" next to Arch Stanton in "The Good, The Bad & The Ugly." Why the confederacy would send that much gold to the west far from major battlefields with few soldiers and in a land of rocks? I don't know, but it makes a good movie plot, my favorite western of all time. Of course that gold was found in 1862, so if Longstreet was looking for gold he would have to track down Blondie and Tuco. 😬
Desperation. Whatever chance the Confederacy had of winning the conflict or fighting to any kind of stalemate had long passed and gone at this point, at least from a conventional standpoint. The Confederate defeat at and loss of Atlanta in September closed the deal and Hood's disaster at Franklin on Nov. 30,1864 put the exclamation point on almost certain inevitable defeat. From that point on, it was just a matter of painfully delaying the inevitable and wracking up the butcher's bill in the process for both sides almost pointlessly. The re-election of Lincoln in 1864 sealed the Confederacy's fate. The only potential avenue at the Confederacy's disposal was to break up the conventional armies and have them take to the hills and to the woods and begin a guerilla war. Odds are that even a long protracted guerilla war would have done little more than to extend the suffering and the hardships of that cruel conflict, perhaps indefinitely. The Southern rebellion could have likely taken on the look and feel of the conflict in Northern Ireland against the IRA. Lee knew this was an option, and it was one he refused to take, fortunately. Who knows how long that conflict could have dragged out had this option been taken? Who knows how and where the pain and suffering of that conflict could have been extended by way of breaking up the conventional armies into guerilla bands? I don't know that the people of the South would have had any more of a stomach for or patience for indefinite guerrilla warfare than the people of the North would have. Most people on the home front on both sides just wanted the war to be over at that point, and you can't blame them. Without strong support from local populations in the South, I don't see guerilla warfare yielding a very positive outcome for the Confederacy either. But there was no way the combined Confederate forces still remaining in Feb. of 1865 were ever going to achieve a victory against the Union Armies in the field that could have produced any significant conventional victory.
The South was mosaic area. 3 main area were, some less: 1. More than 50% slaves areas. 2. Less than 20% slaves areas. 3. Between the 50% and 20% slaves areas. 4. Less area as Locally neutral territories as the Cajuns in South Lousiana. The high % slave territories could give a strong Unionist Army exslaves militia ally against any gerilla warfare, The below 20% territories were the prounionist areas in the South. Appalachian region North Arkansas, North Alabama, Jones county in Mississippi. Here the local prounionist militia Unionist Army ally would be against any gerilla warfare. The South Lousiana Cajuns would like to sell their Morill tariff protected sugar and they would not assist any gerilla warfare. The gerilla warfare would get any help in the 20-50% mosaic territories to increas the 750 000 died people to 1 100 000 dead and the majority of the 350 000 newer dead would come from the South. Lee felt well it would be big stupidity.
@avenaoat that is an interesting point you make. I never really gave much consideration to the pro union regions of the South and how that would have played into an event where Lee would have disbanded the main armies into guerilla fighting forces. Eastern Tennessee and Western North Carolina were hot beds of ant Confederate guerilla warfare through out the war that plagued the Confederates through out. Yeah I think you are right, a guerilla war of that nature would have done nothing but lead to perpetual and pointless warfare and violence for an indefinite time period. I think it would be a lot like the IRA in Northern Ireland perhaps even to this very day and it would have never lead to a good outcome for anyone. Thank God it didn't turn out like that.
@@FuzzyWuzzy75 South problem was the slavery system. For the gerilla warfare 4 million exslaves union Army ally and the low % slave populated white prounionist area prounionist union Army ally big problem would have been. The 18-45 years old white male population got high % dead numbers in the South, a gerilla warfare would have increased higher %. The women and children would have got hugh suffer. The World (UK and France) diversificated the raw cotton production for 1864 so without the Southern cotton the World could have lived.........
When Jefferson Davis fled Richmond, he had with him $528,000 in gold and silver; all that remained of the Confederate treasury. His hope was to rally an army and make a stand in some city that might become a new capital, which of course never happened. But if he had spent it all on supplies for a last stand at Richmond, the outcome would have been the same. Davis dispensed some of the money to the remnants of his armies as back pay for the soldiers. Some of it was deposited in banks as he fled south. Some was hidden, and some was stolen. When Davis was captured, there nothing left of the Confederacy's gold. The full story of what happened to that gold might make for some interesting episodes of the Civil War Research Trail.
I believe that they both knew the war was lost, but they couldn't afford to put it in writing lest someone else come in possession of it and go public with it. They also had the burden of 'honor' to maintain the fight, which to us seems useless and even counterproductive at that point in the war. As usual, we will judge them my our modern ways of thinking which will differ from their realities.
Boggles my mind that the attrition of their casualties isn’t a major point for them. They are mostly worried about money and such. Were they dismissive of the military reality?
It sounds like both were in denial regarding how desperate the South's military position was at that point. There really was almost nothing left in the Confederacy, in terms of manpower, resources, and finances, to keep on fighting. One thing I wonder about though, is that from a purely military stand point, would it have been better for Lee to have simply abandoned Richmond then and marched his army south to join Johnston's, rather than waiting until he was basically forced out of his defensive positions? The longer he stayed in his Petersburg trenches the weaker his forces became.
It occurs to me that Lee and Longstreet had been leading armies for so long, and navigating so many tight spots, that they were working on muscle memory and hope that they could buy time to stay alive.
The South was so lacking in public schools that those who could afford to educate their children paid for private tutors. These tutors were often from the North. Wealthy families often sent their sons to Northern universities, as there were few of those in the South as well. Most Northern children enjoyed free public schools up to about age 12-14. And many more Northern families than Southern could afford private high schools and colleges. The average Southerner was probably just as intelligent as the average Yankee, but a lot less educated. So at the beginning of the war, the Union had a lot more engineers, naval architects, civil engineers, scientists, inventors, factory managers and skilled workers than the Confederacy. This Northern brain trust was certainly a factor.
Excellent video ! I also greatly enjoy the quarterly civil war images I receive from your website. Thank you for keeping history alive.
The letters convey how they have different strategies Thank you for sharing Christmas
Another wonderful and important episode Ron.
Hard to understate the importance of this unique relationship between these two grande figures of the CSA- especially in these last chapters of the war. They had to have known the end was near- and one wonders if Davis could have spared more lives by accepting rather than denying the obvious. The desertion levels at this time were clear indications that the soldiers saw what Davis refused to accept.
As for gold, then as now, all paper money dies a slow debasement/death when a nation (over extended by debt and war) monetizes its debt with the scourge of inflation.
In the end, gold is the only real money that holds its value.
Sound familiar today?
Gold isn't money, it is a commodity that fluctuates in value based on demand and availability.
All the gold ever mined in the world would only fill up 3 or 4 Olympic swimming pools. That's why it's so astronomically valuable. And most of it exists in the form of jewelry.
So how could we go back to using gold for money today? The defense budget alone would break Fort Knox.
It's an impossible dream. We're stuck with what we have.
Thank you for another wonderful informative video. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family.
Lee is hesitant to take the move that Longstreet KNOWS is necessary, regarding the gold. Perhaps Lee accepted at this point that the war was soon to be over and he didn't want to burn the South's 'seed corn'? If I'm Longstreet and I got that response from Lee, I'd recognize the jig was almost up and do everything I could to reduce casualties going forward.
Yes indeed. Many rebel soldiers did indeed "reduce casualties going forward", their own, by surrendering to union forces or by simply deserting and going home
Yes. It seems Lee thought the whole matter of chasing gold by 1865 was impractical and quickly got off that topic and talked only of military logistic matters. Longstreet thought his own suggestion was too easily dismissed. Lee, who had more wealth than Longstreet probably knew his class of people and thought that you couldn't rob ("impress") the only citizens left who "might" have any assets left. A kind of "What are we fighting for if our own country is taking all of our remaining assets?" Lee who lost Arlington early on, may have thought that by 1865 most citizens with gold already had sent it west by now since bummers' reputation was already known for finding anything. Lee figured there is no or much gold "in them thar hills."
BUT, I DO KNOW WHERE there was gold. $200,000. And in today's dollars that's $3.9 million! It was in the Sad Hill Cemetery near Glorieta Pass in New Mexico. It was in the grave "Unknown" next to Arch Stanton in "The Good, The Bad & The Ugly." Why the confederacy would send that much gold to the west far from major battlefields with few soldiers and in a land of rocks? I don't know, but it makes a good movie plot, my favorite western of all time. Of course that gold was found in 1862, so if Longstreet was looking for gold he would have to track down Blondie and Tuco. 😬
@@delstanley1349
I think Longstreet knew about the gold early on, but was scared of Angel eyes
@@delstanley1349LOL, well played. Great movie, by the way. 'If you're going to shoot, shoot! Don't talk!'
@@heyfitzpablum 😊
It seems from the letters that both men were trying very hard to not face reality. Or maybe that's just the way I see it.
Great!
Desperation. Whatever chance the Confederacy had of winning the conflict or fighting to any kind of stalemate had long passed and gone at this point, at least from a conventional standpoint.
The Confederate defeat at and loss of Atlanta in September closed the deal and Hood's disaster at Franklin on Nov. 30,1864 put the exclamation point on almost certain inevitable defeat.
From that point on, it was just a matter of painfully delaying the inevitable and wracking up the butcher's bill in the process for both sides almost pointlessly. The re-election of Lincoln in 1864 sealed the Confederacy's fate.
The only potential avenue at the Confederacy's disposal was to break up the conventional armies and have them take to the hills and to the woods and begin a guerilla war.
Odds are that even a long protracted guerilla war would have done little more than to extend the suffering and the hardships of that cruel conflict, perhaps indefinitely. The Southern rebellion could have likely taken on the look and feel of the conflict in Northern Ireland against the IRA.
Lee knew this was an option, and it was one he refused to take, fortunately. Who knows how long that conflict could have dragged out had this option been taken? Who knows how and where the pain and suffering of that conflict could have been extended by way of breaking up the conventional armies into guerilla bands?
I don't know that the people of the South would have had any more of a stomach for or patience for indefinite guerrilla warfare than the people of the North would have. Most people on the home front on both sides just wanted the war to be over at that point, and you can't blame them. Without strong support from local populations in the South, I don't see guerilla warfare yielding a very positive outcome for the Confederacy either. But there was no way the combined Confederate forces still remaining in Feb. of 1865 were ever going to achieve a victory against the Union Armies in the field that could have produced any significant conventional victory.
The South was mosaic area. 3 main area were, some less:
1. More than 50% slaves areas.
2. Less than 20% slaves areas.
3. Between the 50% and 20% slaves areas.
4. Less area as Locally neutral territories as the Cajuns in South Lousiana.
The high % slave territories could give a strong Unionist Army exslaves militia ally against any gerilla warfare,
The below 20% territories were the prounionist areas in the South. Appalachian region North Arkansas, North Alabama, Jones county in Mississippi. Here the local prounionist militia Unionist Army ally would be against any gerilla warfare.
The South Lousiana Cajuns would like to sell their Morill tariff protected sugar and they would not assist any gerilla warfare.
The gerilla warfare would get any help in the 20-50% mosaic territories to increas the 750 000 died people to 1 100 000 dead and the majority of the 350 000 newer dead would come from the South.
Lee felt well it would be big stupidity.
@avenaoat that is an interesting point you make. I never really gave much consideration to the pro union regions of the South and how that would have played into an event where Lee would have disbanded the main armies into guerilla fighting forces. Eastern Tennessee and Western North Carolina were hot beds of ant Confederate guerilla warfare through out the war that plagued the Confederates through out. Yeah I think you are right, a guerilla war of that nature would have done nothing but lead to perpetual and pointless warfare and violence for an indefinite time period. I think it would be a lot like the IRA in Northern Ireland perhaps even to this very day and it would have never lead to a good outcome for anyone. Thank God it didn't turn out like that.
@@FuzzyWuzzy75 South problem was the slavery system. For the gerilla warfare 4 million exslaves union Army ally and the low % slave populated white prounionist area prounionist union Army ally big problem would have been. The 18-45 years old white male population got high % dead numbers in the South, a gerilla warfare would have increased higher %. The women and children would have got hugh suffer. The World (UK and France) diversificated the raw cotton production for 1864 so without the Southern cotton the World could have lived.........
When Jefferson Davis fled Richmond, he had with him $528,000 in gold and silver; all that remained of the Confederate treasury. His hope was to rally an army and make a stand in some city that might become a new capital, which of course never happened. But if he had spent it all on supplies for a last stand at Richmond, the outcome would have been the same.
Davis dispensed some of the money to the remnants of his armies as back pay for the soldiers. Some of it was deposited in banks as he fled south. Some was hidden, and some was stolen. When Davis was captured, there nothing left of the Confederacy's gold.
The full story of what happened to that gold might make for some interesting episodes of the Civil War Research Trail.
I believe that they both knew the war was lost, but they couldn't afford to put it in writing lest someone else come in possession of it and go public with it. They also had the burden of 'honor' to maintain the fight, which to us seems useless and even counterproductive at that point in the war. As usual, we will judge them my our modern ways of thinking which will differ from their realities.
What about the lost C S A gold ???
What about thelost Ç S A gold???? We had gold
Boggles my mind that the attrition of their casualties isn’t a major point for them. They are mostly worried about money and such. Were they dismissive of the military reality?
It sounds like both were in denial regarding how desperate the South's military position was at that point. There really was almost nothing left in the Confederacy, in terms of manpower, resources, and finances, to keep on fighting. One thing I wonder about though, is that from a purely military stand point, would it have been better for Lee to have simply abandoned Richmond then and marched his army south to join Johnston's, rather than waiting until he was basically forced out of his defensive positions? The longer he stayed in his Petersburg trenches the weaker his forces became.
It occurs to me that Lee and Longstreet had been leading armies for so long, and navigating so many tight spots, that they were working on muscle memory and hope that they could buy time to stay alive.
I find your videos interesting and well done. Thanks for making RUclips worth watching. Most of it is woke trash.
I agree. Thank you Ron
God Bless, “Robert E. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia.” One of the Finest Armies ever Assembled!
Such tremendous sacrifice and devotion to duty and all for perhaps the worst cause any man ever fought for.
The USA also shared superior brain power. Unmatched.
Is that right?
I disagree in that regard.
The South was so lacking in public schools that those who could afford to educate their children paid for private tutors. These tutors were often from the North. Wealthy families often sent their sons to Northern universities, as there were few of those in the South as well.
Most Northern children enjoyed free public schools up to about age 12-14. And many more Northern families than Southern could afford private high schools and colleges.
The average Southerner was probably just as intelligent as the average Yankee, but a lot less educated. So at the beginning of the war, the Union had a lot more engineers, naval architects, civil engineers, scientists, inventors, factory managers and skilled workers than the Confederacy. This Northern brain trust was certainly a factor.
@ True.
Bullshit