Isn’t that the truth. Those types of people are nothing more than a POS and unfortunately they are broken as well as empaths are supposed to show kindness towards them when they don’t deserve it due to the cruelty and trauma that they have caused.
You will be told you are being "selfish, disloyal, difficult, entitled, unstable, ungrateful ..." if you are a scapegoat who dares assert himself/herself.
Just had three years of therapy undone by visiting my parents for Christmas and catching COVID while I was there. COVID put me into a weakened state, which is what they wanted. Then it was game over.
I’m also the ND scapegoat of my family. It absolutely makes our situation and suffering so much harder and more damaging than if a neurotypical had suffered this type of abuse.
Exactly...... I just found out at 31 and now it's like all flooding back... the things I endured BECAUSE I'm autistic.... but somehow I'm supposed to believe that my malignant narcissist mother had no clue whatsoever even though it also took me asking her to take me to the doctor for depression for 2 years before she actually did. Looking back, if I could watch my child-self watch TV, rocking away furiously in my TV chair, or hitting myself in the face because I was "stressed out," yeah, there's no way I wouldn't have at least considered it..... I mean, come on....
So glad! Good for you!!! One thing I've discovered is that I must enjoy the time when I am strong. Because the weakness will come back and demand attention again.
I'm seeing the scapegoat as a goat named scapes that I need to sell because I can't keep this 🐐 goat .... Scapes is not house broken and it came from my mother's house .... anyone want to buy this goat????😅
I've learned that with a narcissist, setting a healthy boundary only gave them fuel to further know how to push buttons. I invoke the saying to myself in such times: "I don't negotiate with terrorists."
I don't know, but if I crumpled and was weakened, my mother would come and comfort me, "Poor baby!" even if I was in my 30s. I was trained to run back to my abuser for comfort.
This explains some of the things I noticed even as a child that I was expected to be smart at school and stupid at home . I was expected to be supportive and compassionate to everyone else despite never experiencing this myself . Be the parent so they didn't have to .
“Smart at school and stupid at home” is a crazy dichotomy. Expected to become a critical thinker, but not critical enough to question them. Become a strong debater, able to build a good argument, but don’t dare disagree with them ?? It makes you feel crazy like somehow you were still not smart enough. I had the Golden Rule and the 10 Commandments burned into my brain while they straight up refused to follow it themselves. It makes reality all wonky.
I fantasized about getting so ill or hurt I'll need to be hospitalized. I fantasized about the care I'd receive at my hospital bed. I fantasized about compassion.
Yes - self promotion/marketing is one of the hardest things to warm up to after being raised by a narcissist and having several long term relationships with them… the danger of drawing attention to yourself, your strengths, your wins… it just leaves you open to attack and the learned behavior is to stay small to survive.
My father was like this. He only offered compassion when I was doing poorly and under his complete control. Those are the only times I recall him being helpful for my well being. It's a very violating feeling because when I think back, this kind of stuff happened when I was in my 20s, I wasn't 3 years old. But whenever I did something actually good for myself, he would do things like throw me out or he would take control of the solution without giving me any input on it. It's a gross feeling because it feels feminizing for a man to go through this, like my male input wasn't valuable. It's just disgusting thinking back to it. Its sad not to have parents and bitterness eats away at me but I am glad not to have him in my life. I wish I had an actual father, or some kind of male role model that actually taught me things and encouraged me.
You described everything whats happening to me now and having to deal with it at work too its not nornal they only care for themselves and then tell you you need to improve or change and when you are doing good they say why do you think you are perfect? you are selfish and you only care about yourself and they say you are on your own and they kick you out of the house
Omg my family would never help me without me being completely devastated first. So now I immediately get triggered into crying when I feel disempowered. It’s embarrassing.
I have struggled to start my business as I get so much attention so quickly. Then I just drop out. I have an autoimmune response to strength, financially independent and being well regarded. I’m 55 years old. When my husband looked at my elementary school records a few years ago, I discovered that I was an excellent student that scored in the 98 percentile on achievement tests. My mother made me repeat 4th grade. It was humiliating. My mother said it was because something was wrong with me but she couldn’t tell me why because, “Of the way I get.” Never in a million years did I think I was a good student and that 4th grade was my best academic year ever. I never graduated from high school and I consistently left myself in positions of weakness. I sabotaged my success. I never knew why until this video. Thank you. Still it is hard for me to accept that my mother was abusive and that she purposely penalized me for success. I’ve always felt like such an embarrassment for not being successful. I’ve never confronted her as it just seem like it could not be true. Who would do that to a child? How terrible would it be for me to accuse her?
I accused my mother of the way she treated me during my life compared to my siblings. I don't think I did it for any reason or looking for something or trying to have an explanation or apologies (I didn't get any) I just burst. I think my mind (not my will) couldn't restrain myself any longer. It was a spontaneous reaction. By the time I realized I had emptied my guts. I don't think I could have done it better or worse not even reading a list of all the misery she put me through. From them on, she declared me undercover dirty war. I'm not contact and none of my siblings supported me. It's up to you to do it or not but if you do so; be prepared, she will raised hell. Be prepared and take care because she'll play her dirtiest tricks.
Until now, I never encountered anyone else who's mother had made then repeat a grade when they didn't need to. I'm sorry that happened to you, too. Sending hugs... My mother always told me I was stupid and bad, and I believed her for way too long. She made me repeat 5th grade. I had been bullied ferociously during that year and she told me I deserved to be bullied because I was "different." The second year of 5th grade I was bullied even worse for having "flunked." I'm sure she knew that would happen. We moved just before I started 6th grade, and the kids in the new town were much nicer, and I made some friends... I just figured out this year at 60, that she's got narcissistic tendencies, and why I was her scapegoat. I think trying to talk to her about it all would not be productive. I'm concentrating on healing and getting on with life.
@bsainsbury1793 It is difficult to swallow that your mother, the person who is supposed to love, protect, nurture and be your biggest cheerleader, WANTS YOU TO FAIL...but, take it from me, this happens and you are gobsmacked the first time and little by little (with each such occurrence) accept that this is what love is. THIS IS NOT LOVE.....little children always love their parents, sadly, not all parents love their children.
You wouldn’t have to accuse her at all. Facts are facts. Tell her you found the 4th grade stats. Ask her why she held you back, when clearly you didn’t need to be. Sit back and watch her spin, rage, lie or deny. Don’t react just watch her and know that her behavior is not your behavior or because of you. Hopefully watching her reaction will make you see her clearly. I wrote down an interaction I had with my mom. I was shocked to see how comfortable she was raging at and 100% devaluing and disregarding my feelings. She would blame me and I believed her. Seeing the interaction written out factually was a game changer for me. I hope it helps you. Good luck no matter what you choose to do!
The mothers wound. Bethany Webster book can be helpful. We tend to sabotage ourselves as our caregivers sabotaged us. If you confronted her she would never admit it. But you know your truth.
I was always either chastised, criticized, corrected, shamed or guilted. Seemed like nothing was ever good enough. Walk straight, no slouching, dont shuffle your feet when you walk, chew with mouth closed, elbows off table, it never ended. Mother's favorite line...you lucky you even have a mother. My mother left when i was 3. Always a great video Jay. Have learned so much in last year why me childhood was so messed up.
Please understand I don't mean to try to top your pain. Can you imagine being hit with his knuckles or being dragged by your hair every time you lagged on a command or put you elbows on the table? What kind of man beats a little girl? It is unfathomable to me.
I’ve been trying to pinpoint what’s going on with me at this stage of my life. This makes perfect sense to me, “DING”. It’s safer to not shine in my own life. I see the connections more clearly now. How mixed messages from both parents, constant teasing from my siblings led me to think it was better to be invisible less jealousy less of a target. Pushed to excel by my father then punished by my mothers envy. It was an impossibly confusing conundrum of trying to self actualize while never arriving at any internal sense of satisfaction or achievement. Living someone else’s unlived dream to avoid feeling invisible. The conflict in having to “perform” for any attention at all while feeling empty living someone else’s dream. And feeling lost I escaped into alcoholism, codependency, trauma bonded in abusive relationships. Acted out all the unspoken pathology in my family of origin.
The best compliment i got from my narcissistic dad was "everyone is saying good things about you, i don't know what they're talking about" triggered him by trying to impress him, definitely a narcissist
I starved my body so that my mother would finally see me suffer, and it is really hard not to want to run towards these ed tendencies whenever something bad happens
Its true, it was the only time my mother showed me any attention or "love". She loved when i was crying, down or sick. It literally lasted only a few minutes though.
I'm not sure if my dad is narcissistic or not but he never shows any compassion. If I'm doing well or doing badly, he just sort of stares at me when I share anything of that sort with him. Or he could be really quite horrible if he ever upset me. He can't bear emotion, seems to see it as a weakness. That utter lack of any form of care or concern has had such a profound effect on me I definitely struggle a lot with shame and feeling like there's something wrong with me. Horrible legacy to work through.
Sounds as though he could have a dismissive avoidant attachment style. (Could also be narcissistic along with it). Look up dismissive avoidant attachment styles. These people hate any type of emotional intimacy. They think of any type of negative emotion as weak and think everyone should be able to sort their own problems out. My family were DA and so is my husband. They can be highly narcissistic along with it.
Some of us didn’t even get the compassion in positions of weakness either. But I do know of examples that can often be experienced in adulthood, regardless of upbringing, and that’s with frenemies. True friends are supportive during your hardships and cheer you on when you share your successes. With frenemies, they may be there to commiserate with, but won’t be happy for your triumphs, due to their envy or insecurity. Like “Lawrence “, I’ve found myself testing others to see whether they really accept me knowing my shortcomings as well as the assets.
Does this "Frenemies also scapegoat us? Because they think you are dumb, just because we are emotional due to high trauma response & our rational brains aren't used" After smear campaigns & betraying me one of the narcissist snake frenemies claims, she has no jealousy with me, is it true that we are just worthless & deserves to be disrespected and dumb in their eyes and it is not their jealousy
What helped me the most in dealing with my narcissistic mother was on one of the many occasions when she pronounced that all gay people (I’m lesbian) are promiscuous and that I’d never find a true happiness. A realisation came to me: 1 I’m not like that. 2 I’m not unique. 3 she’s therefore wrong, and so 4 I’ll find someone to be settled with. What has riled her more than anything else is that my realisation was correct! I’ve been happily married to my wife for 7 years now. Stay true to your own self. Stay strong. Don’t believe the lies narcissists try to batter you with. Xx
As a child, I always wanted to be in a wheelchair. I thought that was abnormal. But that was to get attention and compassion. Hearing this message in a video, is so crasy. Like Jay Ried knows my entire Life feelings and putting it into words. It's incredible.
As a child I was in intense pain in both knees. When I actually got my Mom to get me medical treatment. The orthopedic surgeon said....She needs surgery. My Mom said when. He said "10 years ago" 😢 Once I healed my Mom hated me. She just passed. I can't make sense. I'm also a survivor of sex and labor trafficking. I 😢finally got a hold of her with a phone I found. She said loudly. You GOT yourself in. ..get yourself out. 😢
And I pretended to be going blind for a while! (Explained in my family as "just wanting attention," which is sort of true, if you take away the "just".)
I tried to get my sisters to break my legs How horrible we went through this The abuse parents put on children It is comforting to know I wasn’t alone going through parental abuse
Narc parents can't show compassion by definition. They can fake it, though. Narc parents instinctively know when love and compassion are due, and they feign pretty well, but not good enough so as to convince the children. Both my parents were experts at demoralizing me when I made my best efforts.
This video inspired me to go onto my totally empty LinkedIn profile and add to it the details of a project I worked on at work. Showcasing my programming skills. I'm trying to be strong, instead of just small and weak, you know? It's so damn hard! But still, a solid step for me.
This is so accurate, and now that you mention it and explain it so well, I can see the conditioning throughout my life. They don’t even hide it. 😢 So much damage done. If I’m strong, I’m all alone (or worse, as I discovered after 40 years - they’ll eventually take off the mask and try to destroy you). If I’m weak, I get a family that slowly ramps up the abuse. Those were always the only two choices.
Im surviving narcs abuse at work and at home its so much to deal with when they force you to do things and you know everyone is a narc they keep gaslight me even when i set boundaries
I don't even know where to begin. Some culture like Chinese, where I came from, children have no rights. It's a haven for narcissistic parents to thrive. I was so objectified, my monster narc mother acted like she should get a medal for the fact that I wasn't dead yet. This may sound like an exaggeration. It's not. After I came home from being hospitalized for my suicidal attempt, I became upset because I not only lived, my attempt made my problem worse. My father came home to check on me. After he left, the monster angrily scolded me for causing him to close the shop for an hour to come home. In culture with long history of hierarchical power structure, tolerance for inhumanity is a byproduct of such environment.
Catholic Spanish cultures are somehow similar. Mothers are held as Mother Mary; you have to forgive them no matter what. Everyone will look you down for saying how cold and cruel a mother can be. It's taboo. Heretic.
@@quarteracreadventures855 Thank you. Your response really warms my heart. I immigrated to the US 40 years ago. One year after arriving here, I made my first attempt. I consider it blessing in disguise as it introduced me to therapy. Making a new life here was no picnic and I have faced my share of racism and anti-immigrant attitude. However, I'd still say I am in a more supportive environment here for the fact that there is more freedom to discuss different opinions and challenge status quo. On a more personal level, cutting off all contact with my family was the real game changer for my healing.
@@gojiberry7201 Because of my mother, I'm particularly sensitized to women-on-wowen cruelty. Like the movie "Raise the Red Lantern', I have seen female relatives from old to younger generations compete for power. It was both brutal and pathetic to watch. It's like they rather peck other hens to death for the number 2 position, while leaving the single rooster at the top. It seems like the idea of banding together to take on the number 1 rooster was simply out of their consciousness. Systemic inequality breeds very irrational behaviors.
Your capacity to accurately describe the belief systems that underlies narcissistic abuse is a gift to all of us! There has so often been this gap between what I experienced and putting the dynamics into words. These abusive behaviors feel so yucky...and I've learned to trust how the body feels, but struggle to locate the core of what is happening and put it into words. Thanks Jay. That "aha" moment is like finding the pot of gold!
Thank you Jay, you're so right about everything. Its so very true. I got C-Ptsd from the abuse. I am 47 female who is the oldest out of five children my parents had. I always been the black sheep in my family. Both of my parents are Narcissists. My brothers and sisters are Narcissists Enablers. I went to Jesus cause of the abuse. I know my worth and values. My peace comes from God. Jesus is our hope. God is Love. God is great all the time.I been a Christian for over ten years. I got support my friends from church.
I am the same - from an abusive house where I was the scapegoat - i have cptsd too and I became a Christian from all my siblings Praise and thank the Lord you are saved and will be with Jesus for eternity. A lot of times God chooses & saves those who are abused and looked down upon and who are put down. It is worth the abuse to end up with Jesus for eternity 🙏🏻❤️ I now sometimes feel sorry for the abusers if they don’t turn from their sin to Jesus because if they reject His free gift of salvation they will be punished severely forever - especially for their cruelty to children Only God got me through everything (married to a very abusive cruel sinful man who faked being a Christian) You are so right God is our peace Jesus is our Hope 🙏🏻❤️
Oh. So that's what it is. I've been blaming myself for my lack of success for my entire adult life. Finally here's the explanation, so simple like that.
Well well, this one really hit home. I'm actually nauseous over the 'Lawrence' story. (I felt it deeply and was horrified at him having to 'sell' himself. The 'dignity' excuse, wow; I have the same issue. I'm literally grimacing as I type this.) My mind is going to a time when, recently graduated high school, my dad would make me get up early and just sit there. Didn't matter what I did, but I had to be out of bed by 830a. He'd visit my room frequently at night, so I never was able to sleep well. So this was the '70s and I had a brand new magazine, first of its kind, "Women's Sports". I was sitting at the kitchen table one morning reading it, so excited at embarking on a new fitness journey. He came over, picked it up, and beat the living daylights outa me, shredding the mag nearly into confetti. I came looking for help with self-sabotage and found this channel, among others. I think we're over the target now. Btw, as far as 'standing up'... I'm actually so self-sabotaged that I'm in a wheelchair a good portion of the day. I know what to do to get better (diet, assistive devices, pacing) but always mess it up when I begin to succeed. 😳😁
It's not compassion, it's setting the scene to playact a role, akin to using spices and utensils while cooking: happy, happy, putting a dash of vanilla in cupcake batter, rageful, rageful, where's the spatula, who took it, dinner is burning, who ruined dinner by misplacing MY stuff, rageful rageful. It's not compassion, it's playacting and demanding the stage to be set up just right. 😞
This might sound odd but I'm betting some others will know what I mean.... I've noticed that the more informative and helpful the material on this subject like on Jay's channel...the more I dissociate while ingesting it. That tells me how deep and impactful the potential for healing is as a result of learning from people like Jay and others I've come across.
Just keep going. My skills and understanding have evolved over time. Give yourself as much time as you need, and remember to celebrate all of those little ah-ha moments as you connect the dots
The weird thing is that I figured this out as a nine year old when the scapegoating and the associated trauma bonding started. I would always be attacked whenever I showed happiness and playfulness.
I just cannot get rid of my abusers!!! They try to make me out to be a child when I'm actually the age of grana here. You are doing a great job !!??keep educating your people never quit. I plead with almighty God to make them stop 🛑 and let me have my own life and love they keep isolating me!!!!! Thank you for being such a blessing
I understand what you're saying. I still speak negatively about myself, and have very low self esteem. I find it hard to take compliments, or if I take them I soon forget about them. I realise that there are certain things that I do well, but I'm scared to speak too positively or openly about these things on the off-chance that I'm mistaken for being completely full of myself, or someone catches me having a bad day, when I'm not doing as well as I said I could do. This self doubt was certainly encouraged by my father, and it's incredibly difficult to shake off. It's incredibly hurtful if/when someone tells me that I don't have the ability to do something that I know I have the ability to do, in much the same way as my father would have done. This has happened, and I've noticed the person making the claim not having the ability to do what he's said I can't do, eg, he's tone deaf, but tells me I can't sing when I used to learn singing, took part in eisteddfods, sang in multiple choirs and took part in musicals. I deduce from these situations that I'm speaking with another narcissist who's decided to use me as their scapegoat, projecting their inability of something onto me. PS. I'm still unable to get hold of your E-Book. Do you have any suggestions as to why this might be the case, what could be going on, what I could do, etc? Thank you
My disgusting narcissistic father THRIVED on this. He loved making me feel worthless and inferior and ashamed and deserving of punishment. I was FORCED to feel this way in order to receive any breadcrumbs of kindness, compassion, or generosity. Then and only then (when I was successfully weakened/broken down) would I receive breadcrumbs of support (usually in the form of financial help in a survival crisis). I also noticed that he DEEPLY resented seeing me shine in my gifts and talents, especially when he couldn’t take credit for them. For example, my talent for singing grated my narcissistic father’s nerves. He HATED hearing me sing and being confronted by how talented I was. One time, while I was joyfully singing around the house, he slammed the door in disgust and frustration as he stormed into the other room. He couldn’t STAND hearing me sing and shine bright as the superstar he knew I am. The only time he would ever show me a breadcrumb of support or fake kindness would be when he thought he could directly benefit from it/take credit for it to his peers. But at the end of the day, it was still ALWAYS about him, and you could tangibly feel how much he hated seeing me in my power.
This resonates with me. I got the lead role in a musical in high school and when my narc parents came to see me, my father just went on and on about how good of a singer some other girl was and didn't say a word about my performance. I was so hurt. They devalue you for being uniquely impressive because it's not about them being impressive. You aren't allowed to matter on your own terms. Living in rebellion and being MAGNIFICENT is the Elixer.
This is very helpful to know. I can clearly see how I self-sabotage so I stay in a weakened state. The comparison of staying on your knees to be connected to a "compassion machine" is apt. Now that I am learning to see myself differently I sure hope this will allow me the opportunity and inner strength to stand up straight and champion myself because I know I have much good and value to add to this world. As always, thank you so much, Jay for putting out all this information.
OMFG, you could have switched his name for mine, I’m a self employed carpenter and everything and you kindly took out all the big T trauma stuff that happened as punishment. I have spent absurd amounts of my time and money on therapy trying to get past this stuff. Here I am, swinging a hammer for 30 years and every time I get close to getting a steady stream of work for the right people, building rad stuff, my life and health go to hell. I have put in everything I have got trying to mend this, and now it’s getting harder to heal the bones, be able to work again with injuries and illness and find anyone skilled and experienced enough to help with what Ive been dealing with. I’m still breathing so I’ll keep trying. Just don’t know what to do anymore.
Dear Jay I am the mother of my beautiful adult son who was scapegoated and committed suicide. We loved each other. My son thought no one cared, and he felt hopeless. He didn't know that I I believed in him and that I also was befogged, weakened and manipulated. He was/is so authentic and kind. My son trusted me and I unknowingly put him in great danger. No one believes me that my son's father set out to destroy my son (and myself). I must admit that I am lost, bereft and numb. To the outside world the father appears to be capable, competant, a good father. Nothing could be further from the truth. My son, I believe, was pushed towards suicide. He put up with so much for so long. The vindictiveness, hostility, ruthlessness of my son's father is perplexing. The hostility and abuse was only directed to my son and myself.
I am so so so very sorry. I can’t imagine how difficult that is. My son’s father does the same thing I was abused as a child and chose an abuser who abused me our entire relationship I felt like a piece of dirt - totally worthless And then he abused our son horribly (who I believe has Asperger’s) Our son has said he was going to commit suicide 3 times and makes very bad self destructive choices I’m trying to find a therapist to help him.. he’s a professional hockey player in the minors and deals with that too He’s 27 and his dad totally controls him and everything about his life I’m trying to heal and help him heal at the same time I would appreciate any advice you may have.
Yes, that is the ultimate goal of every narcissist - to drive their prime victim, their scapegoat, to commit suicide. It’s because they are sadistic and have a need to feel superior via knowing that they had the power to cause misery to feed off of, so for them to know that they had the power to cause such unbearable suffering to someone that they chose to end their life all together is a delicious pleasure to them. My own parents did that with me. And if you aren’t a narcissist like your husband why weren’t you able to love and protect your son? Were you doing what most women do and prioritizing your husband over your kids? You should have been able to prevent this. Regret won’t change how you failed your son and were actively siding with his abuser when he needed you the most.
@@GodisLove4Eternitystep one is for him to cut all contact with his abuser!! And you beginning to secure your financial situation so that you can divorce him. It’s impossible to heal while still being fed the same poison.
@@winxclubstellamusaWe could all take out our personal frustrations on this woman from our own horrible experiences with narcissist parents but your unkind words literally add no value whatsoever. She is clearly hurting and realizes how she should have made different choices but these patterns are often generational. I'm concerned by your lack of compassion. In fact, I rarely encounter anyone who's been through abuse like we have who doesn't offer compassion towards others in similar situations. Don't let yourself become like the narcissist, lacking in real compassion.
Absolutely. Tell them nothing. They denigrate your good experiences and taint them. Fake sympathy over bad experiences or shame you and or laugh behind your back. I am trying to go no contact.
I only received compassion whenever i was at my lowest point. But the minute i found strength and learned to feel good about myself that is when all hell would break loose. Literally the entire toxic family joined in to try and break me. I am so thankful that i escaped.
For scapegoats working to introspect on how this could apply to your life, there are so many ways!! I initially thought “this might not be my personal experience” because I was forced into hyper independence and performance on both physical and emotional processing levels- and I have been punished by the abusers for becoming disabled and my abilities changing; this kind of situation isn’t so straightforward on the surface in terms of how weakness is reinforced and strength is punished. Instead, these concepts in the videos can apply in various ways: like, you had to be weaker in terms of expressing/actionably upholding your values, being submissive to authority on practical and even intellectual levels, and this can apply about decision making. Plus, even if you have been hyper independent and a high achiever like I was, then perhaps this still applies: like, there are acceptable and unacceptable levels of success in the household- and, as indicated by my present experiences of abuse for being disabled, there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of being “weak” or dependent.I’m not a licensed and professional psychologist to parse out how this functions, but just wanted to comment beneath this great video in case people might need examples of how this can apply in different situations!
Yes, it is true you are getting abused for being disabled/with rare genetics conditions/health issues and in this vulnerable state you will get "used" by a covert narcissist mother/family/parents in the most dangerous way, it is beyond worse than getting murdered! You are killed but your body stays alive, but can I ask you, "How hyper Independencey can benefits us or will astray us? You have all the 💯 chance & vulnerability to become a scapegoat again outside the home as well, i am thinking of leaving this narcissistic house & narcissist relatives both are highly toxic in my life, where I am subjected to be a scapegoat, will I become hyper Independent again as I was before for 5years (OVER GIVING and codependency) and how does a hyper independent life looks like, especially if you are a girl
Wow, this explains so much. I grew up with this dynamic, married this dynamic and passed this apperently to my kids. They are all grown ups, nobody is celebrating their success openly
I would deeply appreciate if you could explore this subtle topic more in future videos. and perhaps add links to additional research and resources so we can deep-dive into this dynamic
ok now it makes sense where and when and why this tender compassionate nurturing loving side of my mom comes from..... she only seems to be able to relate to me in an unhealthy way... either commiseration, or subtle competition .... but never true love or respect... im only worthy of her respect if she herself feels magically happy in that moment... and ifshe doesnt its my fault cuz she lives thru my emotions.. she has no independent autonomous emotions herself...
Makes sense of a parent showing the opposite of enthusiasm for when I had the chance of a really great job that suited me and a happy move to a different town. Both times so triggering that the opportunites were sabotaged. The fact is at those moments I was happy, energised and connected and that's precisely what they cannot abide. I could sort of understand the dynamic at play (in retrospect) but it really helps to once again have it described so clearly.
This is so discouraging to hear. This perfectly explains my childhood. My father was and is a total narcissist. Everything you mention in your videos is 100% accurate about my upbringing and early adulthood before I left home and cut contact with him and my family. I’m gonna vent for a second: I’m really discouraged because I feel like I can’t stand up for myself. I had a cop pull me over for speeding and he was so rude and disrespectful to me and was a total jerk. Yet, I felt like I couldn’t stand up for myself and say that I hadn’t seen the sign because I was checking directions and was totally new to the area, but I feel this deep sense that nobody will care about my perspective or where I am coming from or even care to show me reasonable grace or understanding for my mistakes. It feels so cruel to me and I have this cruel feeling like I can’t make any mistakes and any mistakes I make will be heavily scrutinized and punished with no mercy at all. I’m think I’m going to take this case to court and argue my case, because the cop was totally unprofessional and I know he was abusing his authority by his demeanor and how he pulled me over in spite of me slowing down and driving safely, just because I’m out of town. It reminds me of growing up when my dad would act totally unreasonable and harsh and not allow me to explain my mistakes, instead showing extreme harshness and punishment for all my mistakes, while dismissing his own issues while expecting us to forgive him with no work to earn it. I feel so hopeless with my case because it reminds me of how it felt growing up being powerless and helpless and pushed around and not listened to at all. Logically, I think I have a pretty good case, given the road conditions and other cars near me when the cop radar gunned me, and the fact he was being unreasonable, etc, but I can’t shake this deep fear of being attacked if I stand up for myself, because that’s what dad did to me growing up- he’d beat us when we tried to stand up for ourselves and pushed us around and forced us to “respect” him and never show our own feelings or attitudes around him or he’d angrily snap at us and punish us. I felt so fucking numb. I feel so numb and out of control and weak and small and powerless, and I can’t shake it. I am so sad, and feel so numb and out of control. If you all can, if you are spiritual, could you please pray for me and offer your energy toward me that God or the universe would lovingly help me? I need all the help I can right now cuz I am so broke and can’t afford to pay anymore tickets or bills 😭 I don’t feel as scared as I used to, which is good, but I feel so out of control and powerless and lack of courage to protect and standup for myself like Jay is talking about here. I am scared to stand up for myself, and am scared if I do, the cop or other people with fragile egos will try to attack me and that is what is holding me back right now 😭😭 Thanks for reading, I don’t have anyone I can talk to about this and I just need to get it off my heart. 💙
*Respect I'm Working To Stand Up Against Ignored Court Orders.....Having Waivering Moments with Thoughts Of Feeling Not Worth Standing Up For...*Expected Behavior Heres to Validate the Strength of Those who Feel Worthless in Conjunction to Our @bu$3rs
Beautiful example shared. Thank you for addressing this topic - something I’ve only spidey-sensed in myself but have not seen addressed elsewhere. I’d noticed I’m low key, even secretive and disbelieving of my strengths and accomplishments over the years. It was my partner that suggested that the reason why I’m the black sheep in my family is because I’m ‘more’. I accidentally had more to work with and when I couldn’t make sense of their arbitrary ‘rules’, I realised I had to make my own way. In some ways it helped that my parents were uneducated migrants, full of old fashioned morals and superstition. Though for a long time I thought that was the issue, it allowed me to separate. Still sad for a kid with a great report card hoping for praise only to be cut down by her (illiterate but also appearance-obsessed, selfish, triangulating, invalidating, paranoid, permanently angry, hypochondriac, controlling, critical etc etc ) mother.
I'm French and I graduated high school with the best score in the entire state and the equivalent of an A average. When I told my mother, her first reaction was "how many questions did you miss to get an average A+?" My parents didn't give a f*ck and wouldn't even sign my application to college in time (I was a minor) when I was headhunted by the best schools in the country. But a year earlier, my sister graduated high school and she got a big party and a 1500€ watch as a gift. OH, I forgot to mention, my sister was 4 year older than me and graduated just one year sooner than me (I'm not pointing finger at her, she did what she could, but the contrast made things worse)
Same here, I could have gone to any university with my high marks and was offered a place in the national university. My father pointed out that was an honour for me but kept to his mantra that he was only legally obliged to feed clothe and house me until I turned 18 then I had to leave because he found out I was having sex with my long-time boyfriend. He wasn't religious he just thought I was disgusting and now no one would ever want to marry me. I was the type of girl men would use and not respect. What a twit he is! I left home a day or two after turning 18 and frankly was glad to leave. Rubbish parents. You can only play the cards you're dealt in life. It has been a long road to recovery from the psychological damage and I am 65! They could not take away my intelligence though and you also have that precious gift. Rock on!
Thank you for sharing! That's awful and I'm sorry it happened to you. Totally relate to the sex thing. My mother actually suggested I had surgery to have my hymen stitched back in so that the honor of the family is safe if by miracle I managed to find a husband (her mantra for me since I was a baby girl was "God help the man who will agree to marry and have children with you" 😳 I read a comment the other day that said that we became scapegoats because they couldn't brainwash us in the first place " and that's so on spot. So rock on sista, their loss!
@@EmmA-ln9he Aaaagh! It is hard to believe another human can suggest surgery to you, and gaslight you in such a weird way about marriage! Let alone the one who is supposed to have empathy and love for you. But believe it we must as it is sadly the reality of these twisted souls. Then walk or more accurately limp away. I never realised how badly I was damaged and had poor coping skills. really other people helped me a lot. So when I was 18 and living in a share house, a man of 25 suggested to me at breakfast on a Saturday morning that everyone was out shopping, lets have sex? I said No I don't want to and you have a girlfriend anyway (she also lived there). He said it didn't matter but I continued to refuse. He then pulled a kitchen knife out of a drawer, threatened to rape me and told me to take my shirt off with the knife pressing at the top button. I started crying and mercifully he said Ok I won't rape you and left. My mother happened to visit me a week later, the first time she contacted me since I left home months ago. I started to tell her "This guy wanted sex and when I said no he pulled a knife on me" She interrupted me saying "Oh you must have provoked him" I felt like I had been knifed in the guts then. She put her nose in the air and changed the subject. For years and years I was afraid to be friendly with men, or be alone in a house with a man, in case it meant rape. I couldn't talk to anyone else about it until I was 50 and went to a therapist. I sometimes feel I was silly to believe her but I was a child and like you had been gaslit all my life about how worthless and bad I was. I left my job soon after and went fruit picking with a new boyfriend, unfortunately the season was delayed and all around people were camping on the riverside without any money for food. I rang "Mum" and asked for $20. She said No. I said Mum I'm starving! Please send money to the local Post office. She said "Oh no your father would be so angry if I did that." My boyfriend was so angry with them for not helping he said "They don't deserve you, we are going to Perth." This was the other side of Australia about 4,000 km away. Best move of my life! First we had to wait for work of course to save up fares etc. But this gave me distance from them and I wish I had never contacted them again really, but I did and although I am happily still here in Perth, just the contact through occasional visits and phone calls has been corrosive. I predictably married a narcissist and bully, one son, then divorced him after 8 years, worked hard to survive, and consciously looked for a better person to marry. I believe my guardian angel was guiding me to my new and current husband of 35 years. I can relate to Jays course so well because I was the hopeful child for so long. No more! So it has taken me so long to recover in gradual ways and not even knowing this stuff that thankfully is now available. Jays online course is working well for me. He understands on a deep psychological relatable level because he is a survivor too. Other therapists who have not been traumatised are helpful but can't really relate so well. Thank you so much for your support and sharing your story. How are you going now?
This can also happen if you grew up with a BPD parent. My grandma (uBPD) caused my mom to behave like this to the point that my mom developed BPD too, but she's the Waif archetype (basically stuck in the weakened victim state because it feels safe for her bc it's all she knew growing up)
What is uBPD, AND WHY it CANNOT HAPPEN FROM Covert narcissistic parents, How can a person develop BPD and not be born with it Is it true that "BPD have higher consciousness but aren't born with intellect, both consciousness and intelligence" Both have 0% correlations, as claimed by "JORDON PETERSON"?
ThAt was So well sAid.. brilliant. The problem and solution so well described and offered.. As an aside, you removed the sterile therapeutic stance that many professionals take and without any sacrifice of professionalism.. AmaZing. You have a true gift 💝. Thank you. I will be able to apply this to my own situations more clearly now.. gently and gradually, as you say.. 🙏🏾
Münchhausen by proxy syndrom, my narc. mother has this. She´s is super happy when all children are mentally or physically ill. Then she can keep on playing the "good caring mother" (looking good from the outside) while keeping complete control and dominance over her adult children.
Woa🤯 This pattern on both biz and at work. Fear supervisors (or even coworkers) will see me as threatening if I am confident in what I am doing or proud when I've figured something out. And the marketing example is so perfect--I now can see what jas been holding me back.
Hi Jay, do you think you could do a video on how scapegoat challenges within friendships? It’s been really difficult to navigate especially when realizing so many of my relationships resemble my family of origin. Perhaps even elaborating on what those experiences may be like while you’re in them as a scapegoat and what may be some hiccups when discovering all of this and wanting to break free? I am just not sure if due to trauma my expectations are outlandish or if their genuine and I’m just used to normalizing dysfunction that it feels wrong and selfish of me..
Brianna, could you share more about friendship issues. I have concerns about them, too, and want to know if they can be related to toxic conditions growing up.
Wow, I really struggle with this. To the point that when I am seeking new relationships I underplay who I am and focus on communicating my failures and weakness while hiding my strength and success. I rationalise it by making it a test for weather the person can tolerate me as a falsies as opposed to valuing me as a success. Nonetheless this strategy always leads to disappointment and rejection. And I am stuck feeling terrible and disconnected. I am uncomfortable being in my strength or success with others as this led to coldness and conflict with my mother. I have to be aggressive whenever I communicate my strengths in order to preempt an attack or revenge…
I didn't get compassion after suicide attempts. I got shame. Get back on the horse, you're going to lose your edge., While my face was blown up with hives; daily,and slept 14-16 hours daily. And she just wants attention, that I never received Ugh They're monster's 😮
You described everything whats happening to me now and having to deal with it at work too its not nornal they only care for themselves and then tell you you need to improve or change and when you are doing good they say why do you think you are perfect? you are selfish and you only care about yourself and they say you are on your own and they kick you out of the house
Gosh this is tough. Not receiving compassion for weakness or strength but only receiving compassion for being in a lesser state. My weaknesses were attacked and so were my strengths. Quite the dilemma. Thank you for the brilliant video. Best most unique content of it's kind. Hopefully I can find a way through the feeling of shame compassion strength and weakness in a way that honors myself and others.
All of these questions at the beginning of videos, I answer yes to every one. They are all accurate depictions of my experience, some that i have never been able to even verbalize. These particular ones are really key to understanding the scapegoat - avoident attachment connection. Thank you so much
Thank you so much for your videos! They are life saving, life changing for me. I finally understand why I self sabotage almost everything I do atfer months and month of work and invested energy. Finally makes sense! Thank you so much! ❤️❤️❤️🙏
Yep. Exactly what happened to me. Thank you so much for these examples and practical breakdown. I have spent a lot of time lately understanding the narcissist. What happened to me. But it can only get me so far. Your 3 pillar model, I find extremely helpful. I am now learning to live in defiance. And your examples and practical breakdown are very helpful in that. Thank you so much!
Wow, you just explained a core-problem of mine. Thank you so much! I never experienced compassion from my nearest relations, neither parents, siblings nor friends.
I'm glad I could help shed some light on your experiences. It's difficult not to receive compassion from those closest to us, but remember, your worth and value aren't defined by their actions. You deserve compassion and understanding!
I’ve always felt like I’m in a hole in the ground. Whenever I lift my head up out of the hole my dad and brother are there with shovels beating me back down into the hole. They feel threatened when I feel confident.
Hi Jay..lovely content..i would really love to buy the kindle edition of your book, but unfortunately amazon Germany, says it is not available..do you know where in Europe I can find it? Thanks a lot 🙂
In short words: Whenever you show strength you are attacked by a narcissistic.
Wow, yes! Well put
Isn’t that the truth. Those types of people are nothing more than a POS and unfortunately they are broken as well as empaths are supposed to show kindness towards them when they don’t deserve it due to the cruelty and trauma that they have caused.
This part
Exactly. Especially when you set boundaries with a narcissist.
You will be told you are being "selfish, disloyal, difficult, entitled, unstable, ungrateful ..." if you are a scapegoat who dares assert himself/herself.
It is so clear now why we stayed so thoroughly confused and now are bravely overcoming this crap as an adult.
Ikr?! You mean if I don't come up to you like an abused dog a NORMAL person would still show me compassion? Life game changer.
They want you to be miserable and connected to them. Misery loves company. Sooo true.
Just had three years of therapy undone by visiting my parents for Christmas and catching COVID while I was there. COVID put me into a weakened state, which is what they wanted. Then it was game over.
Having autism and being the scapegoat at the same time is no joke😢😢😢😢
So sorry
Same here😩😩😩Always on fight mode
I’m also the ND scapegoat of my family. It absolutely makes our situation and suffering so much harder and more damaging than if a neurotypical had suffered this type of abuse.
Very true.
Exactly...... I just found out at 31 and now it's like all flooding back... the things I endured BECAUSE I'm autistic.... but somehow I'm supposed to believe that my malignant narcissist mother had no clue whatsoever even though it also took me asking her to take me to the doctor for depression for 2 years before she actually did. Looking back, if I could watch my child-self watch TV, rocking away furiously in my TV chair, or hitting myself in the face because I was "stressed out," yeah, there's no way I wouldn't have at least considered it..... I mean, come on....
I was the scapegoat child and at this point in my life I’ve had enough of letting my trauma define who I am.
So glad! Good for you!!! One thing I've discovered is that I must enjoy the time when I am strong. Because the weakness will come back and demand attention again.
Good for you.
@@katray7452true! That!
I'm seeing the scapegoat as a goat named scapes that I need to sell because I can't keep this 🐐 goat .... Scapes is not house broken and it came from my mother's house .... anyone want to buy this goat????😅
Same. Tired of it all. Doing my best to heal. ✅️
I've learned that with a narcissist, setting a healthy boundary only gave them fuel to further know how to push buttons. I invoke the saying to myself in such times: "I don't negotiate with terrorists."
Ooh! Good one! 😊
Nice term to call them. I love what you expresses them as "T".
I don't know, but if I crumpled and was weakened, my mother would come and comfort me, "Poor baby!" even if I was in my 30s. I was trained to run back to my abuser for comfort.
Same here. They want us crippled and dependent
Exactly!
Love bombed and then, they pull the rug out from under you to devalue, demean and dismiss.
Same.
Me too
This explains some of the things I noticed even as a child that I was expected to be smart at school and stupid at home . I was expected to be supportive and compassionate to everyone else despite never experiencing this myself . Be the parent so they didn't have to .
“Smart at school and stupid at home” is a crazy dichotomy. Expected to become a critical thinker, but not critical enough to question them. Become a strong debater, able to build a good argument, but don’t dare disagree with them ?? It makes you feel crazy like somehow you were still not smart enough.
I had the Golden Rule and the 10 Commandments burned into my brain while they straight up refused to follow it themselves. It makes reality all wonky.
I fantasized about getting so ill or hurt I'll need to be hospitalized. I fantasized about the care I'd receive at my hospital bed. I fantasized about compassion.
OMG... I fantasied that I die and THEN they will have some compasion...
Completely! Expected to be the family therapist. Compassionate to all of their needs, but not receiving real compassion from them
Yes - self promotion/marketing is one of the hardest things to warm up to after being raised by a narcissist and having several long term relationships with them… the danger of drawing attention to yourself, your strengths, your wins… it just leaves you open to attack and the learned behavior is to stay small to survive.
You are one of the few people who covers everything related to the scapegoat on RUclips. Your videos are so helpful. Thank you.
Happy to help!
My father was like this. He only offered compassion when I was doing poorly and under his complete control. Those are the only times I recall him being helpful for my well being. It's a very violating feeling because when I think back, this kind of stuff happened when I was in my 20s, I wasn't 3 years old. But whenever I did something actually good for myself, he would do things like throw me out or he would take control of the solution without giving me any input on it. It's a gross feeling because it feels feminizing for a man to go through this, like my male input wasn't valuable. It's just disgusting thinking back to it. Its sad not to have parents and bitterness eats away at me but I am glad not to have him in my life. I wish I had an actual father, or some kind of male role model that actually taught me things and encouraged me.
I'm sorry you went through this.
I too wish I had a real father that taught me things.
You described everything whats happening to me now and having to deal with it at work too its not nornal they only care for themselves and then tell you you need to improve or change and when you are doing good they say why do you think you are perfect? you are selfish and you only care about yourself and they say you are on your own and they kick you out of the house
Omg my family would never help me without me being completely devastated first. So now I immediately get triggered into crying when I feel disempowered. It’s embarrassing.
Wow - you just described what I would do - I never understood why… now it makes sense - it happens to me too 😔
I'm sorry you went through ❤ crazy times for scapegoats
I relate to this i feel hopeless and empty i have no one and nobody i lost all my friends because of these narcs abuse
Wow, that's insightful, I have the exact same issue, just start crying when trying to be assertive to abusers
:O omg yes!
I have struggled to start my business as I get so much attention so quickly. Then I just drop out. I have an autoimmune response to strength, financially independent and being well regarded.
I’m 55 years old. When my husband looked at my elementary school records a few years ago, I discovered that I was an excellent student that scored in the 98 percentile on achievement tests. My mother made me repeat 4th grade. It was humiliating. My mother said it was because something was wrong with me but she couldn’t tell me why because, “Of the way I get.” Never in a million years did I think I was a good student and that 4th grade was my best academic year ever. I never graduated from high school and I consistently left myself in positions of weakness. I sabotaged my success. I never knew why until this video. Thank you.
Still it is hard for me to accept that my mother was abusive and that she purposely penalized me for success. I’ve always felt like such an embarrassment for not being successful. I’ve never confronted her as it just seem like it could not be true. Who would do that to a child? How terrible would it be for me to accuse her?
I accused my mother of the way she treated me during my life compared to my siblings. I don't think I did it for any reason or looking for something or trying to have an explanation or apologies (I didn't get any) I just burst. I think my mind (not my will) couldn't restrain myself any longer. It was a spontaneous reaction. By the time I realized I had emptied my guts. I don't think I could have done it better or worse not even reading a list of all the misery she put me through.
From them on, she declared me undercover dirty war. I'm not contact and none of my siblings supported me.
It's up to you to do it or not but if you do so; be prepared, she will raised hell. Be prepared and take care because she'll play her dirtiest tricks.
Until now, I never encountered anyone else who's mother had made then repeat a grade when they didn't need to. I'm sorry that happened to you, too. Sending hugs... My mother always told me I was stupid and bad, and I believed her for way too long. She made me repeat 5th grade. I had been bullied ferociously during that year and she told me I deserved to be bullied because I was "different." The second year of 5th grade I was bullied even worse for having "flunked." I'm sure she knew that would happen. We moved just before I started 6th grade, and the kids in the new town were much nicer, and I made some friends... I just figured out this year at 60, that she's got narcissistic tendencies, and why I was her scapegoat. I think trying to talk to her about it all would not be productive. I'm concentrating on healing and getting on with life.
@bsainsbury1793 It is difficult to swallow that your mother, the person who is supposed to love, protect, nurture and be your biggest cheerleader, WANTS YOU TO FAIL...but, take it from me, this happens and you are gobsmacked the first time and little by little (with each such occurrence) accept that this is what love is. THIS IS NOT LOVE.....little children always love their parents, sadly, not all parents love their children.
You wouldn’t have to accuse her at all. Facts are facts. Tell her you found the 4th grade stats. Ask her why she held you back, when clearly you didn’t need to be. Sit back and watch her spin, rage, lie or deny. Don’t react just watch her and know that her behavior is not your behavior or because of you. Hopefully watching her reaction will make you see her clearly.
I wrote down an interaction I had with my mom. I was shocked to see how comfortable she was raging at and 100% devaluing and disregarding my feelings. She would blame me and I believed her. Seeing the interaction written out factually was a game changer for me. I hope it helps you. Good luck no matter what you choose to do!
The mothers wound. Bethany Webster book can be helpful. We tend to sabotage ourselves as our caregivers sabotaged us. If you confronted her she would never admit it. But you know your truth.
It's not always parents that scapegoat...often it's siblings that scapegoat another sibling as well as triangulate
My twin did this to me
Oh don't they just! 😢
This is SO HARD TO HEAR but so necessary 😢❤
I was always either chastised, criticized, corrected, shamed or guilted. Seemed like nothing was ever good enough.
Walk straight, no slouching, dont shuffle your feet when you walk, chew with mouth closed, elbows off table, it never ended.
Mother's favorite line...you lucky you even have a mother. My mother left when i was 3.
Always a great video Jay. Have learned so much in last year why me childhood was so messed up.
Please understand I don't mean to try to top your pain. Can you imagine being hit with his knuckles or being dragged by your hair every time you lagged on a command or put you elbows on the table? What kind of man beats a little girl? It is unfathomable to me.
@@katray7452 God will judge
I’ve been trying to pinpoint what’s going on with me at this stage of my life. This makes perfect sense to me, “DING”. It’s safer to not shine in my own life. I see the connections more clearly now. How mixed messages from both parents, constant teasing from my siblings led me to think it was better to be invisible less jealousy less of a target. Pushed to excel by my father then punished by my mothers envy. It was an impossibly confusing conundrum of trying to self actualize while never arriving at any internal sense of satisfaction or achievement. Living someone else’s unlived dream to avoid feeling invisible. The conflict in having to “perform” for any attention at all while feeling empty living someone else’s dream. And feeling lost I escaped into alcoholism, codependency, trauma bonded in abusive relationships. Acted out all the unspoken pathology in my family of origin.
Well said. I'm with you. Wish you the best
Me too. I don’t know if I have any energy left.
The best compliment i got from my narcissistic dad was "everyone is saying good things about you, i don't know what they're talking about" triggered him by trying to impress him, definitely a narcissist
I starved my body so that my mother would finally see me suffer, and it is really hard not to want to run towards these ed tendencies whenever something bad happens
Its true, it was the only time my mother showed me any attention or "love". She loved when i was crying, down or sick. It literally lasted only a few minutes though.
Is that how I got "trauma bonded" for 5 years from my covert narc mom, from a " 5sec" care, once in a lifetime 🤔🥺😮🥺
I'm not sure if my dad is narcissistic or not but he never shows any compassion. If I'm doing well or doing badly, he just sort of stares at me when I share anything of that sort with him. Or he could be really quite horrible if he ever upset me. He can't bear emotion, seems to see it as a weakness. That utter lack of any form of care or concern has had such a profound effect on me I definitely struggle a lot with shame and feeling like there's something wrong with me. Horrible legacy to work through.
Sounds as though he could have a dismissive avoidant attachment style. (Could also be narcissistic along with it). Look up dismissive avoidant attachment styles. These people hate any type of emotional intimacy. They think of any type of negative emotion as weak and think everyone should be able to sort their own problems out. My family were DA and so is my husband. They can be highly narcissistic along with it.
Some of us didn’t even get the compassion in positions of weakness either.
But I do know of examples that can often be experienced in adulthood, regardless of upbringing, and that’s with frenemies. True friends are supportive during your hardships and cheer you on when you share your successes. With frenemies, they may be there to commiserate with, but won’t be happy for your triumphs, due to their envy or insecurity.
Like “Lawrence “, I’ve found myself testing others to see whether they really accept me knowing my shortcomings as well as the assets.
Does this "Frenemies also scapegoat us? Because they think you are dumb, just because we are emotional due to high trauma response & our rational brains aren't used" After smear campaigns & betraying me one of the narcissist snake frenemies claims, she has no jealousy with me, is it true that we are just worthless & deserves to be disrespected and dumb in their eyes and it is not their jealousy
What helped me the most in dealing with my narcissistic mother was on one of the many occasions when she pronounced that all gay people (I’m lesbian) are promiscuous and that I’d never find a true happiness. A realisation came to me: 1 I’m not like that. 2 I’m not unique. 3 she’s therefore wrong, and so 4 I’ll find someone to be settled with. What has riled her more than anything else is that my realisation was correct! I’ve been happily married to my wife for 7 years now. Stay true to your own self. Stay strong. Don’t believe the lies narcissists try to batter you with. Xx
As a child, I always wanted to be in a wheelchair. I thought that was abnormal.
But that was to get attention and compassion.
Hearing this message in a video, is so crasy.
Like Jay Ried knows my entire Life feelings and putting it into words.
It's incredible.
As a child I was in intense pain in both knees. When I actually got my Mom to get me medical treatment. The orthopedic surgeon said....She needs surgery. My Mom said when. He said "10 years ago" 😢 Once I healed my Mom hated me. She just passed. I can't make sense. I'm also a survivor of sex and labor trafficking. I 😢finally got a hold of her with a phone I found. She said loudly. You GOT yourself in. ..get yourself out. 😢
And I pretended to be going blind for a while! (Explained in my family as "just wanting attention," which is sort of true, if you take away the "just".)
@@cosmopolitan794 yes.
Then I wasn't the only one who reacted like this.
Attention is so needed.
Disregard is a very high ordeal.
I pretended I had heart surgery…😞
I tried to get my sisters to break my legs
How horrible we went through this
The abuse parents put on children
It is comforting to know I wasn’t alone going through parental abuse
Narc parents can't show compassion by definition. They can fake it, though. Narc parents instinctively know when love and compassion are due, and they feign pretty well, but not good enough so as to convince the children. Both my parents were experts at demoralizing me when I made my best efforts.
Hits home..thanks for bringing this to light..absolute cruelty😢
This video inspired me to go onto my totally empty LinkedIn profile and add to it the details of a project I worked on at work. Showcasing my programming skills. I'm trying to be strong, instead of just small and weak, you know? It's so damn hard! But still, a solid step for me.
If I was ever inflated, my mother was nearby with a pin.
This is so accurate, and now that you mention it and explain it so well, I can see the conditioning throughout my life. They don’t even hide it. 😢 So much damage done. If I’m strong, I’m all alone (or worse, as I discovered after 40 years - they’ll eventually take off the mask and try to destroy you). If I’m weak, I get a family that slowly ramps up the abuse. Those were always the only two choices.
Im surviving narcs abuse at work and at home its so much to deal with when they force you to do things and you know everyone is a narc they keep gaslight me even when i set boundaries
I don't even know where to begin. Some culture like Chinese, where I came from, children have no rights. It's a haven for narcissistic parents to thrive. I was so objectified, my monster narc mother acted like she should get a medal for the fact that I wasn't dead yet. This may sound like an exaggeration. It's not. After I came home from being hospitalized for my suicidal attempt, I became upset because I not only lived, my attempt made my problem worse. My father came home to check on me. After he left, the monster angrily scolded me for causing him to close the shop for an hour to come home. In culture with long history of hierarchical power structure, tolerance for inhumanity is a byproduct of such environment.
I'm so sorry. Are you in a more supportive environment now?
I am so sorry. I have a Chinese friend who called his mom a "tiger mom." It sounds just dreadful.
Catholic Spanish cultures are somehow similar. Mothers are held as Mother Mary; you have to forgive them no matter what.
Everyone will look you down for saying how cold and cruel a mother can be.
It's taboo. Heretic.
@@quarteracreadventures855 Thank you. Your response really warms my heart. I immigrated to the US 40 years ago. One year after arriving here, I made my first attempt. I consider it blessing in disguise as it introduced me to therapy. Making a new life here was no picnic and I have faced my share of racism and anti-immigrant attitude. However, I'd still say I am in a more supportive environment here for the fact that there is more freedom to discuss different opinions and challenge status quo. On a more personal level, cutting off all contact with my family was the real game changer for my healing.
@@gojiberry7201 Because of my mother, I'm particularly sensitized to women-on-wowen cruelty. Like the movie "Raise the Red Lantern', I have seen female relatives from old to younger generations compete for power. It was both brutal and pathetic to watch. It's like they rather peck other hens to death for the number 2 position, while leaving the single rooster at the top. It seems like the idea of banding together to take on the number 1 rooster was simply out of their consciousness. Systemic inequality breeds very irrational behaviors.
I am that child. I never knew what it was until recently and I hate every bit of it now that I know what it is and where it came from.
Your capacity to accurately describe the belief systems that underlies narcissistic abuse is a gift to all of us! There has so often been this gap between what I experienced and putting the dynamics into words. These abusive behaviors feel so yucky...and I've learned to trust how the body feels, but struggle to locate the core of what is happening and put it into words. Thanks Jay. That "aha" moment is like finding the pot of gold!
Thank you Jay, you're so right about everything. Its so very true. I got C-Ptsd from the abuse. I am 47 female who is the oldest out of five children my parents had. I always been the black sheep in my family. Both of my parents are Narcissists. My brothers and sisters are Narcissists Enablers. I went to Jesus cause of the abuse. I know my worth and values. My peace comes from God. Jesus is our hope. God is Love. God is great all the time.I been a Christian for over ten years. I got support my friends from church.
I am the same - from an abusive house where I was the scapegoat - i have cptsd too and I became a Christian from all my siblings
Praise and thank the Lord you are
saved and will be with Jesus for eternity. A lot of times God chooses & saves those who are abused and looked down upon and who are put down.
It is worth the abuse to end up with Jesus for eternity 🙏🏻❤️
I now sometimes feel sorry for the abusers if they don’t turn from their sin to Jesus because if they reject His free gift of salvation they will be punished severely forever - especially for their cruelty to children
Only God got me through everything (married to a very abusive cruel sinful man who faked being a Christian)
You are so right God is our peace
Jesus is our Hope 🙏🏻❤️
Oh. So that's what it is.
I've been blaming myself for my lack of success for my entire adult life. Finally here's the explanation, so simple like that.
Excellent video explaining something that sounds insane. The root of all my self sabotage I'm thinking.
Well well, this one really hit home. I'm actually nauseous over the 'Lawrence' story. (I felt it deeply and was horrified at him having to 'sell' himself. The 'dignity' excuse, wow; I have the same issue. I'm literally grimacing as I type this.)
My mind is going to a time when, recently graduated high school, my dad would make me get up early and just sit there. Didn't matter what I did, but I had to be out of bed by 830a. He'd visit my room frequently at night, so I never was able to sleep well.
So this was the '70s and I had a brand new magazine, first of its kind, "Women's Sports". I was sitting at the kitchen table one morning reading it, so excited at embarking on a new fitness journey. He came over, picked it up, and beat the living daylights outa me, shredding the mag nearly into confetti.
I came looking for help with self-sabotage and found this channel, among others. I think we're over the target now.
Btw, as far as 'standing up'... I'm actually so self-sabotaged that I'm in a wheelchair a good portion of the day. I know what to do to get better (diet, assistive devices, pacing) but always mess it up when I begin to succeed.
😳😁
I’m so sorry Gina. You can do it! You are valuable and precious and able. I hope you heal and get better soon!
@@GodisLove4Eternity Awww thanks sister/brother. That means a lot. Maranatha. 😉🙏
@@ginadellgrottaglia6897 🙏🏻❤️ Maranatha!
I am so sorry this happened to you. You endured a monster when you were young.🥺💙
@@bookbeing Yeah. He died last year, age 90. I still can't believe the relief when it crosses my mind. 😌
Thanks.
It's not compassion, it's setting the scene to playact a role, akin to using spices and utensils while cooking: happy, happy, putting a dash of vanilla in cupcake batter, rageful, rageful, where's the spatula, who took it, dinner is burning, who ruined dinner by misplacing MY stuff, rageful rageful.
It's not compassion, it's playacting and demanding the stage to be set up just right. 😞
This is the best episode ever. I kept yelling out That's ME!!
So true I stayed really small only half understanding why
This might sound odd but I'm betting some others will know what I mean....
I've noticed that the more informative and helpful the material on this subject like on Jay's channel...the more I dissociate while ingesting it. That tells me how deep and impactful the potential for healing is as a result of learning from people like Jay and others I've come across.
Right me too
Just keep going. My skills and understanding have evolved over time. Give yourself as much time as you need, and remember to celebrate all of those little ah-ha moments as you connect the dots
I have had to pull this video up at least six or seven times… yeah, I get it.
The weird thing is that I figured this out as a nine year old when the scapegoating and the associated trauma bonding started. I would always be attacked whenever I showed happiness and playfulness.
I just cannot get rid of my abusers!!! They try to make me out to be a child when I'm actually the age of grana here. You are doing a great job !!??keep educating your people never quit. I plead with almighty God to make them stop 🛑 and let me have my own life and love they keep isolating me!!!!!
Thank you for being such a blessing
I understand what you're saying. I still speak negatively about myself, and have very low self esteem. I find it hard to take compliments, or if I take them I soon forget about them. I realise that there are certain things that I do well, but I'm scared to speak too positively or openly about these things on the off-chance that I'm mistaken for being completely full of myself, or someone catches me having a bad day, when I'm not doing as well as I said I could do. This self doubt was certainly encouraged by my father, and it's incredibly difficult to shake off. It's incredibly hurtful if/when someone tells me that I don't have the ability to do something that I know I have the ability to do, in much the same way as my father would have done. This has happened, and I've noticed the person making the claim not having the ability to do what he's said I can't do, eg, he's tone deaf, but tells me I can't sing when I used to learn singing, took part in eisteddfods, sang in multiple choirs and took part in musicals. I deduce from these situations that I'm speaking with another narcissist who's decided to use me as their scapegoat, projecting their inability of something onto me.
PS. I'm still unable to get hold of your E-Book. Do you have any suggestions as to why this might be the case, what could be going on, what I could do, etc?
Thank you
I've just had a huge aha moment. Thank you
My disgusting narcissistic father THRIVED on this. He loved making me feel worthless and inferior and ashamed and deserving of punishment. I was FORCED to feel this way in order to receive any breadcrumbs of kindness, compassion, or generosity.
Then and only then (when I was successfully weakened/broken down) would I receive breadcrumbs of support (usually in the form of financial help in a survival crisis).
I also noticed that he DEEPLY resented seeing me shine in my gifts and talents, especially when he couldn’t take credit for them.
For example, my talent for singing grated my narcissistic father’s nerves. He HATED hearing me sing and being confronted by how talented I was.
One time, while I was joyfully singing around the house, he slammed the door in disgust and frustration as he stormed into the other room.
He couldn’t STAND hearing me sing and shine bright as the superstar he knew I am.
The only time he would ever show me a breadcrumb of support or fake kindness would be when he thought he could directly benefit from it/take credit for it to his peers.
But at the end of the day, it was still ALWAYS about him, and you could tangibly feel how much he hated seeing me in my power.
This resonates with me. I got the lead role in a musical in high school and when my narc parents came to see me, my father just went on and on about how good of a singer some other girl was and didn't say a word about my performance. I was so hurt. They devalue you for being uniquely impressive because it's not about them being impressive. You aren't allowed to matter on your own terms. Living in rebellion and being MAGNIFICENT is the Elixer.
They attack during weakened states too.
They abandon you
So obvious, now,in hindsight! Self defeating activity for love is just unacceptable!
This is very helpful to know. I can clearly see how I self-sabotage so I stay in a weakened state. The comparison of staying on your knees to be connected to a "compassion machine" is apt. Now that I am learning to see myself differently I sure hope this will allow me the opportunity and inner strength to stand up straight and champion myself because I know I have much good and value to add to this world. As always, thank you so much, Jay for putting out all this information.
He is the best psychotherapist against narcissism HANDS DOWN!
OMFG, you could have switched his name for mine, I’m a self employed carpenter and everything and you kindly took out all the big T trauma stuff that happened as punishment. I have spent absurd amounts of my time and money on therapy trying to get past this stuff. Here I am, swinging a hammer for 30 years and every time I get close to getting a steady stream of work for the right people, building rad stuff, my life and health go to hell. I have put in everything I have got trying to mend this, and now it’s getting harder to heal the bones, be able to work again with injuries and illness and find anyone skilled and experienced enough to help with what Ive been dealing with. I’m still breathing so I’ll keep trying. Just don’t know what to do anymore.
You eloquently described my entire childhood experiences.
Metaphorically, that is.
Dear Jay I am the mother of my beautiful adult son who was scapegoated and committed suicide. We loved each other. My son thought no one cared, and he felt hopeless. He didn't know that I I believed in him and that I also was befogged, weakened and manipulated. He was/is so authentic and kind. My son trusted me and I unknowingly put him in great danger. No one believes me that my son's father set out to destroy my son (and myself). I must admit that I am lost, bereft and numb. To the outside world the father appears to be capable, competant, a good father. Nothing could be further from the truth. My son, I believe, was pushed towards suicide. He put up with so much for so long. The vindictiveness, hostility, ruthlessness of my son's father is perplexing. The hostility and abuse was only directed to my son and myself.
I am so so so very sorry. I can’t imagine how difficult that is.
My son’s father does the same thing
I was abused as a child and chose an abuser who abused me our entire relationship
I felt like a piece of dirt - totally worthless
And then he abused our son horribly (who I believe has Asperger’s)
Our son has said he was going to commit suicide 3 times and makes very bad self destructive choices
I’m trying to find a therapist to help him..
he’s a professional hockey player in the minors and deals with that too
He’s 27 and his dad totally controls him and everything about his life
I’m trying to heal and help him heal at the same time
I would appreciate any advice you may have.
Yes, that is the ultimate goal of every narcissist - to drive their prime victim, their scapegoat, to commit suicide. It’s because they are sadistic and have a need to feel superior via knowing that they had the power to cause misery to feed off of, so for them to know that they had the power to cause such unbearable suffering to someone that they chose to end their life all together is a delicious pleasure to them. My own parents did that with me.
And if you aren’t a narcissist like your husband why weren’t you able to love and protect your son? Were you doing what most women do and prioritizing your husband over your kids? You should have been able to prevent this. Regret won’t change how you failed your son and were actively siding with his abuser when he needed you the most.
@@GodisLove4Eternitystep one is for him to cut all contact with his abuser!! And you beginning to secure your financial situation so that you can divorce him. It’s impossible to heal while still being fed the same poison.
@@winxclubstellamusaWe could all take out our personal frustrations on this woman from our own horrible experiences with narcissist parents but your unkind words literally add no value whatsoever. She is clearly hurting and realizes how she should have made different choices but these patterns are often generational. I'm concerned by your lack of compassion. In fact, I rarely encounter anyone who's been through abuse like we have who doesn't offer compassion towards others in similar situations. Don't let yourself become like the narcissist, lacking in real compassion.
I'm very sorry 😞 that sounds like a very difficult road
This seems so real to me 😢
Don't tell narcissistic parents about your victories or defeats. In fact don't provide them any information - it's fodder for their gossip.
Absolutely. Tell them nothing. They denigrate your good experiences and taint them. Fake sympathy over bad experiences or shame you and or laugh behind your back. I am trying to go no contact.
they make u think humility is weakness and , that "humility " is a good thing , and only when we are humble can we be deserving of any love or respect
thank you!💕
I only received compassion whenever i was at my lowest point. But the minute i found strength and learned to feel good about myself that is when all hell would break loose.
Literally the entire toxic family joined in to try and break me.
I am so thankful that i escaped.
Thank you. I needed to hear this today. 🙏
Thank you Jay. Very helpful. Your nice little ad lib bit at the end always makes me smile. Nice to finish on a high note.
For scapegoats working to introspect on how this could apply to your life, there are so many ways!! I initially thought “this might not be my personal experience” because I was forced into hyper independence and performance on both physical and emotional processing levels- and I have been punished by the abusers for becoming disabled and my abilities changing; this kind of situation isn’t so straightforward on the surface in terms of how weakness is reinforced and strength is punished. Instead, these concepts in the videos can apply in various ways: like, you had to be weaker in terms of expressing/actionably upholding your values, being submissive to authority on practical and even intellectual levels, and this can apply about decision making. Plus, even if you have been hyper independent and a high achiever like I was, then perhaps this still applies: like, there are acceptable and unacceptable levels of success in the household- and, as indicated by my present experiences of abuse for being disabled, there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of being “weak” or dependent.I’m not a licensed and professional psychologist to parse out how this functions, but just wanted to comment beneath this great video in case people might need examples of how this can apply in different situations!
Yes, it is true you are getting abused for being disabled/with rare genetics conditions/health issues and in this vulnerable state you will get "used" by a covert narcissist mother/family/parents in the most dangerous way, it is beyond worse than getting murdered! You are killed but your body stays alive, but can I ask you, "How hyper Independencey can benefits us or will astray us? You have all the 💯 chance & vulnerability to become a scapegoat again outside the home as well, i am thinking of leaving this narcissistic house & narcissist relatives both are highly toxic in my life, where I am subjected to be a scapegoat, will I become hyper Independent again as I was before for 5years (OVER GIVING and codependency) and how does a hyper independent life looks like, especially if you are a girl
Wow, this explains so much. I grew up with this dynamic, married this dynamic and passed this apperently to my kids. They are all grown ups, nobody is celebrating their success openly
How could you forget what you had to go through when you were your kids' age?
So on time, relevant for current challenges, thank you Jay🦋🙏
I would deeply appreciate if you could explore this subtle topic more in future videos. and perhaps add links to additional research and resources so we can deep-dive into this dynamic
This is why i self harmed. Only self harm and suicidal behaviour got me help and compassion
ok now it makes sense where and when and why this tender compassionate nurturing loving side of my mom comes from..... she only seems to be able to relate to me in an unhealthy way... either commiseration, or subtle competition .... but never true love or respect... im only worthy of her respect if she herself feels magically happy in that moment... and ifshe doesnt its my fault cuz she lives thru my emotions.. she has no independent autonomous emotions herself...
Makes sense of a parent showing the opposite of enthusiasm for when I had the chance of a really great job that suited me and a happy move to a different town. Both times so triggering that the opportunites were sabotaged. The fact is at those moments I was happy, energised and connected and that's precisely what they cannot abide. I could sort of understand the dynamic at play (in retrospect) but it really helps to once again have it described so clearly.
This is so discouraging to hear.
This perfectly explains my childhood. My father was and is a total narcissist. Everything you mention in your videos is 100% accurate about my upbringing and early adulthood before I left home and cut contact with him and my family.
I’m gonna vent for a second:
I’m really discouraged because I feel like I can’t stand up for myself. I had a cop pull me over for speeding and he was so rude and disrespectful to me and was a total jerk. Yet, I felt like I couldn’t stand up for myself and say that I hadn’t seen the sign because I was checking directions and was totally new to the area, but I feel this deep sense that nobody will care about my perspective or where I am coming from or even care to show me reasonable grace or understanding for my mistakes. It feels so cruel to me and I have this cruel feeling like I can’t make any mistakes and any mistakes I make will be heavily scrutinized and punished with no mercy at all.
I’m think I’m going to take this case to court and argue my case, because the cop was totally unprofessional and I know he was abusing his authority by his demeanor and how he pulled me over in spite of me slowing down and driving safely, just because I’m out of town.
It reminds me of growing up when my dad would act totally unreasonable and harsh and not allow me to explain my mistakes, instead showing extreme harshness and punishment for all my mistakes, while dismissing his own issues while expecting us to forgive him with no work to earn it.
I feel so hopeless with my case because it reminds me of how it felt growing up being powerless and helpless and pushed around and not listened to at all. Logically, I think I have a pretty good case, given the road conditions and other cars near me when the cop radar gunned me, and the fact he was being unreasonable, etc, but I can’t shake this deep fear of being attacked if I stand up for myself, because that’s what dad did to me growing up- he’d beat us when we tried to stand up for ourselves and pushed us around and forced us to “respect” him and never show our own feelings or attitudes around him or he’d angrily snap at us and punish us.
I felt so fucking numb. I feel so numb and out of control and weak and small and powerless, and I can’t shake it.
I am so sad, and feel so numb and out of control.
If you all can, if you are spiritual, could you please pray for me and offer your energy toward me that God or the universe would lovingly help me? I need all the help I can right now cuz I am so broke and can’t afford to pay anymore tickets or bills 😭
I don’t feel as scared as I used to, which is good, but I feel so out of control and powerless and lack of courage to protect and standup for myself like Jay is talking about here.
I am scared to stand up for myself, and am scared if I do, the cop or other people with fragile egos will try to attack me and that is what is holding me back right now 😭😭
Thanks for reading, I don’t have anyone I can talk to about this and I just need to get it off my heart. 💙
*Respect
I'm Working To Stand Up Against Ignored Court Orders.....Having Waivering Moments with Thoughts Of Feeling Not Worth Standing Up For...*Expected Behavior
Heres to Validate the Strength of Those who Feel Worthless in Conjunction to Our @bu$3rs
Beautiful example shared. Thank you for addressing this topic - something I’ve only spidey-sensed in myself but have not seen addressed elsewhere. I’d noticed I’m low key, even secretive and disbelieving of my strengths and accomplishments over the years. It was my partner that suggested that the reason why I’m the black sheep in my family is because I’m ‘more’. I accidentally had more to work with and when I couldn’t make sense of their arbitrary ‘rules’, I realised I had to make my own way.
In some ways it helped that my parents were uneducated migrants, full of old fashioned morals and superstition. Though for a long time I thought that was the issue, it allowed me to separate. Still sad for a kid with a great report card hoping for praise only to be cut down by her (illiterate but also appearance-obsessed, selfish, triangulating, invalidating, paranoid, permanently angry, hypochondriac, controlling, critical etc etc ) mother.
Not feeling like anyone is genuinely rooting for me.
It's like you've observed my whole life, & put words to my experiences; including all the nuances
I'm French and I graduated high school with the best score in the entire state and the equivalent of an A average. When I told my mother, her first reaction was "how many questions did you miss to get an average A+?"
My parents didn't give a f*ck and wouldn't even sign my application to college in time (I was a minor) when I was headhunted by the best schools in the country.
But a year earlier, my sister graduated high school and she got a big party and a 1500€ watch as a gift.
OH, I forgot to mention, my sister was 4 year older than me and graduated just one year sooner than me (I'm not pointing finger at her, she did what she could, but the contrast made things worse)
Same here, I could have gone to any university with my high marks and was offered a place in the national university. My father pointed out that was an honour for me but kept to his mantra that he was only legally obliged to feed clothe and house me until I turned 18 then I had to leave because he found out I was having sex with my long-time boyfriend. He wasn't religious he just thought I was disgusting and now no one would ever want to marry me. I was the type of girl men would use and not respect. What a twit he is!
I left home a day or two after turning 18 and frankly was glad to leave. Rubbish parents. You can only play the cards you're dealt in life. It has been a long road to recovery from the psychological damage and I am 65! They could not take away my intelligence though and you also have that precious gift. Rock on!
Thank you for sharing! That's awful and I'm sorry it happened to you.
Totally relate to the sex thing. My mother actually suggested I had surgery to have my hymen stitched back in so that the honor of the family is safe if by miracle I managed to find a husband (her mantra for me since I was a baby girl was "God help the man who will agree to marry and have children with you" 😳
I read a comment the other day that said that we became scapegoats because they couldn't brainwash us in the first place " and that's so on spot.
So rock on sista, their loss!
And I would love to hear about your recovery story if you're up for it!!
@@EmmA-ln9he Aaaagh! It is hard to believe another human can suggest surgery to you, and gaslight you in such a weird way about marriage! Let alone the one who is supposed to have empathy and love for you. But believe it we must as it is sadly the reality of these twisted souls. Then walk or more accurately limp away. I never realised how badly I was damaged and had poor coping skills. really other people helped me a lot.
So when I was 18 and living in a share house, a man of 25 suggested to me at breakfast on a Saturday morning that everyone was out shopping, lets have sex? I said No I don't want to and you have a girlfriend anyway (she also lived there). He said it didn't matter but I continued to refuse. He then pulled a kitchen knife out of a drawer, threatened to rape me and told me to take my shirt off with the knife pressing at the top button. I started crying and mercifully he said Ok I won't rape you and left.
My mother happened to visit me a week later, the first time she contacted me since I left home months ago. I started to tell her "This guy wanted sex and when I said no he pulled a knife on me" She interrupted me saying "Oh you must have provoked him" I felt like I had been knifed in the guts then. She put her nose in the air and changed the subject. For years and years I was afraid to be friendly with men, or be alone in a house with a man, in case it meant rape. I couldn't talk to anyone else about it until I was 50 and went to a therapist. I sometimes feel I was silly to believe her but I was a child and like you had been gaslit all my life about how worthless and bad I was.
I left my job soon after and went fruit picking with a new boyfriend, unfortunately the season was delayed and all around people were camping on the riverside without any money for food. I rang "Mum" and asked for $20. She said No. I said Mum I'm starving! Please send money to the local Post office. She said "Oh no your father would be so angry if I did that."
My boyfriend was so angry with them for not helping he said "They don't deserve you, we are going to Perth." This was the other side of Australia about 4,000 km away. Best move of my life! First we had to wait for work of course to save up fares etc. But this gave me distance from them and I wish I had never contacted them again really, but I did and although I am happily still here in Perth, just the contact through occasional visits and phone calls has been corrosive.
I predictably married a narcissist and bully, one son, then divorced him after 8 years, worked hard to survive, and consciously looked for a better person to marry. I believe my guardian angel was guiding me to my new and current husband of 35 years.
I can relate to Jays course so well because I was the hopeful child for so long. No more!
So it has taken me so long to recover in gradual ways and not even knowing this stuff that thankfully is now available. Jays online course is working well for me. He understands on a deep psychological relatable level because he is a survivor too. Other therapists who have not been traumatised are helpful but can't really relate so well.
Thank you so much for your support and sharing your story. How are you going now?
This can also happen if you grew up with a BPD parent. My grandma (uBPD) caused my mom to behave like this to the point that my mom developed BPD too, but she's the Waif archetype (basically stuck in the weakened victim state because it feels safe for her bc it's all she knew growing up)
What is uBPD, AND WHY it CANNOT HAPPEN FROM Covert narcissistic parents, How can a person develop BPD and not be born with it
Is it true that "BPD have higher consciousness but aren't born with intellect, both consciousness and intelligence" Both have 0% correlations, as claimed by "JORDON PETERSON"?
Thank you for creating and sharing.
ThAt was So well sAid.. brilliant. The problem and solution so well described and offered.. As an aside, you removed the sterile therapeutic stance that many professionals take and without any sacrifice of professionalism.. AmaZing. You have a true gift 💝. Thank you. I will be able to apply this to my own situations more clearly now.. gently and gradually, as you say.. 🙏🏾
Thank you, you clarified a lot. God bless you. 🙏
EXACTLY what I needed to hear! I knew it, it's just hard to describe. Thanks for the words!
Münchhausen by proxy syndrom, my narc. mother has this.
She´s is super happy when all children are mentally or physically ill.
Then she can keep on playing the "good caring mother" (looking good from the outside) while keeping complete control and dominance over her adult children.
Glad i found one more channel to help me along my journey. Thank you
What twisted double binds they put us in! Heads they win, tails you lose.
Woa🤯 This pattern on both biz and at work. Fear supervisors (or even coworkers) will see me as threatening if I am confident in what I am doing or proud when I've figured something out. And the marketing example is so perfect--I now can see what jas been holding me back.
Hi Jay, do you think you could do a video on how scapegoat challenges within friendships? It’s been really difficult to navigate especially when realizing so many of my relationships resemble my family of origin. Perhaps even elaborating on what those experiences may be like while you’re in them as a scapegoat and what may be some hiccups when discovering all of this and wanting to break free? I am just not sure if due to trauma my expectations are outlandish or if their genuine and I’m just used to normalizing dysfunction that it feels wrong and selfish of me..
Brianna, could you share more about friendship issues. I have concerns about them, too, and want to know if they can be related to toxic conditions growing up.
Thank you for the valuable and empowering info Jay! 🙏
Wow, I really struggle with this. To the point that when I am seeking new relationships I underplay who I am and focus on communicating my failures and weakness while hiding my strength and success. I rationalise it by making it a test for weather the person can tolerate me as a falsies as opposed to valuing me as a success. Nonetheless this strategy always leads to disappointment and rejection. And I am stuck feeling terrible and disconnected. I am uncomfortable being in my strength or success with others as this led to coldness and conflict with my mother. I have to be aggressive whenever I communicate my strengths in order to preempt an attack or revenge…
I didn't get compassion after suicide attempts.
I got shame.
Get back on the horse, you're going to lose your edge., While my face was blown up with hives; daily,and slept 14-16 hours daily.
And she just wants attention, that I never received
Ugh
They're monster's 😮
You described everything whats happening to me now and having to deal with it at work too its not nornal they only care for themselves and then tell you you need to improve or change and when you are doing good they say why do you think you are perfect? you are selfish and you only care about yourself and they say you are on your own and they kick you out of the house
Thank you for your support and advice.
Powerful message. Thank you, Jay.
Gosh this is tough. Not receiving compassion for weakness or strength but only receiving compassion for being in a lesser state. My weaknesses were attacked and so were my strengths. Quite the dilemma. Thank you for the brilliant video. Best most unique content of it's kind. Hopefully I can find a way through the feeling of shame compassion strength and weakness in a way that honors myself and others.
You've explained this PERFECTLY.
Thank you.
All of these questions at the beginning of videos, I answer yes to every one. They are all accurate depictions of my experience, some that i have never been able to even verbalize. These particular ones are really key to understanding the scapegoat - avoident attachment connection. Thank you so much
Thank you so much for your videos! They are life saving, life changing for me. I finally understand why I self sabotage almost everything I do atfer months and month of work and invested energy. Finally makes sense! Thank you so much! ❤️❤️❤️🙏
Yep. Exactly what happened to me. Thank you so much for these examples and practical breakdown. I have spent a lot of time lately understanding the narcissist. What happened to me. But it can only get me so far. Your 3 pillar model, I find extremely helpful. I am now learning to live in defiance. And your examples and practical breakdown are very helpful in that. Thank you so much!
Wow, you just explained a core-problem of mine. Thank you so much! I never experienced compassion from my nearest relations, neither parents, siblings nor friends.
I'm glad I could help shed some light on your experiences. It's difficult not to receive compassion from those closest to us, but remember, your worth and value aren't defined by their actions. You deserve compassion and understanding!
Thank you
you have answered so much of my why?
Spot on.
I’ve always felt like I’m in a hole in the ground. Whenever I lift my head up out of the hole my dad and brother are there with shovels beating me back down into the hole.
They feel threatened when I feel confident.
why would u need compassion when ur strong???? i think u should say u need love praise adoration comfort affection when ur strong
Hi Jay..lovely content..i would really love to buy the kindle edition of your book, but unfortunately amazon Germany, says it is not available..do you know where in Europe I can find it? Thanks a lot 🙂
People are so very cruel , and don't even know what they are doing to a child