This definitely makes me more interested in Sally Rooney, I worked in a bookstore for a while and nothing anyone said piqued my interest about it, but this? Okay. Maybe I'll check it out.
This makes me want to revisit her. I didn’t really like what I've read so far. Like I just haven't got whatever it is people have praised so much, but maybe this will help recontextualize some things and make it more interesting.
Denying yourself material goods has nothing to do with Marxism. It's not a poverty cult. It's about workers owning and controlling the means of production.
Really interesting essay, I enjoyed it so much! I love fiction that deals with class systems - Elena Ferrante's books are great for that too, from the Italian perspective.
I was thinking of the differences in communication styles and politeness--different understandings of politeness mean that it can actually come across as meanness, or bewildering... so fascinating!
Thank you so much for this essay! I really appreciate having more context for Rooney’s class commentary. I always have found her books really interesting and layered and frequently I am confused by reviews that skim over her class commentary, especially.
Five years ago I wrote my bachelors thesis largely on the politics of Normal People and this is scratching all kinds of itches ❤ the context of post-recession ireland went way over my head though as someone who never lived there so im glad i learned something new!
Thank you. Opened my eyes on my one Sally Rooney reading, Normal People, the specific and the universal. A throwback in some ways to the 19th century authors who were more upfront about this.
as an american fan thank you so much for the context at the start! I knew some of it, but you taught me some new info about Ireland's unique global position. Great analysis. It's shocking how many people overlook Rooney's blatant politics (maybe because she is such an unabashed romantic?)
this is such a great video/essay. You did an amazing job! I have thought all the same things about some criticism of Rooney's work, and you put them perfectly into words, with sources. Thank you!
As an Irish person it's very frustrating sometimes to read critiques from American or British Tik Tokkers who've taken no time to consider the novels in their Irish cultural context. If they were critiquing a novel written by an African or Japanese author it would be very quickly understood that the culture of those countries are vital to understanding the characters, but because Ireland is an English speaking country they feel they claim authority over it without doing any of the work to understand it. As a middle-class person who grew up in the West of Ireland and then went to Trinity College, Normal People was a deeply personal and relatable book. The scene where Conall wants Marianne to offer for him to stay with her is a great example. Ireland is a very indirect culture, you can't accept a slice of cake or a cup of tea without declining at least twice first. So hosts will almost always ask three times incase the guest felt obligated to say no the first two times. The colonised mindset seeps into every interaction, you can be seen to have aspirations above your station or any sort of high opinion of yourself. Asking Marianne if he can stay is simply too much of an imposition to ask of someone, because Irish people find it very difficult to say no to requests. For Conall, it's worse because of the class disparity between them, it's embarrassing to be seen as reliant on someone else's wealth. For Marianne, she is still deeply insecure and affected by what happened at the beginning of the novel. Being kept as a secret very deeply cuts into her self-worth and feelings of isolation in their hometown. She needs Conall to be forward with her. If they were able to just put everything on the table it would defeat the entire point of the novel and be deeply unrealistic to the class and gender dynamics Rooney had set up. The book is filled with nuances like these that get steam rolled by people who can't understand a characters point of view because they don't understand the class, gender or generational dynamics at play. All of this is a very long winded way of saying thank you for pointing this out in your video, it was refreshing!
I’m not a fan of Rooney, but this is the best context of her work I have ever seen and I am really grateful to understand more what her work is aiming to do. Thank you.
I read normal people when it came out and loved it but was really turned off by it being turned into a show and all the conversation about it as a romance. I read Intermezzo (started it while in Dublin which was cool!) and was reminded of how deep Sally Rooney's writing goes, especially when it comes to class. Planning on re-reading Normal People just to get back to what I loved about it the first time
I'm so glad I stumbled upon this video, you're astute analysis and theming (I loved the little touch of matching your outfit with the colour scheme of the book) was so entertaining and informative. If I'm honest, I've never got into Sally Rooney. I first watched the BBC adaptation of Normal People and genuinely almost couldnt finish it despite the hype, so then I decided I'd just read the book instead. The same thing happened. The I tried conversations with friends- same problem. Intermezzo is actually the first book I've been really entertained and challenged emotionally by. Thank you for the video Roisin!
I'm sorry, I understand your point, but watching this I could not stop feeling like the message is: you need to have context from Irish history to be able to understand the political value of Sally Rooney´s books...
I just started watching your video but at the 27 seconds mark, after seeing that screenshot, I had to pause it and take a deep breath. As a person who was born, grew up and still lives in a former soviet republic, my patience with people who go around quote putin's words is growing thinner by the day. Do these "intellectuals" who are apparently fighting for equality even consider us, people from former soviet republics equal? My country, like many others that forced to "join" ussr, was occupied by the red army and thousands of people died in repressions that followed that occupation. Before that, for over a hundred year, we were fighting for our freedom from Russian empire. But apparently, for this lady the long awaited freedom of my people (and many others, including Russians btw) is the death of the World's beauty?! When will the people from fairly well-off countries stop fetishizing Soviet Union (and quite often Russian empire ,along the way) while actively criticizing western imperialism? Do they even realize how hypocritical that sounds? Genuinely, what the hell is going on?
Just to clarify - that quote isn't directly from Rooney but from one of the characters in her books. It also said in the book ironically but has been taken out of context by the Daily Mail to stir up anger. I can understand why you would have a strong reaction
@@RoisinsReading Thank you for the correction! I looked for the original after making a comment and realized that it was a quote from the book, I should have edited the comment. The idea expressed in the quote unfortunately has become a common sentiment expressed towards us any time we attempt to share/talk about our complicated relationship with ussr. The moment it appeared on screen I saw red (no pun intended). Sincerely sorry if I came off too strongly. After watching the full video, I'm not sure I'm the right audience for her books but I'll give "beautiful world, where are you" a try to form a more coherent opinion on the quote. Fantastic video btw, well-paced and very informative!
Mimetic displays seem to make up the majority of the political interactions in rooneys books. As far as I can see. This does not imo reduce the quality of her work, but it may not be doing here exactly what the author wants it to do.
The thing I found odd as an American is that none of her characters go to protests or attend organizing meetings or canvass for candidates or policy changes (other than Connell and that one Palestine march). I wasn't sure if there were cultural reasons for this (is it easier for Americans to get initiatives on the ballot or fight for higher minimum wages?) or because her characters were more interested in intellectualizing leftism than participating in it.
I mean I don’t live in Ireland, but in the UK ballot initiatives aren’t a thing, we have a centralised system, not a federated one, so we don’t vote on issues. We can only have referenda and that doesn’t always go great (brexit). It I think the reason may be that Rooney stories are about intimate interpersonal relationships, Simon works for a left wing political party in Beautiful World Where Are You, much of his life must revolve around campaigning, but because it doesn’t serve the story, we don’t hear about it.
I think those things are outside the scope of her books (although at the end of Normal People, there is a section about Marianne getting more engaged with political activism through protests). What's important to understand that is she's probably just examining small parts of life and how capitalism as a structure and ideology influence them. Even if a character isn't a Marxist or politically aware, they are still going to be affected by these things. I agree with Roisin's response that since the stories are not about organizing, it doesn't serve the story to have them featured as part of the plot.
I think a lot of American readers (not a personal comment on you, just something I've observed) seem to make the mistake of thinking that because Ireland is an English speaking, predominantly white western country that it is the same as America. It's a completely different country with a completely different psyche. Irish people don't generally protest lol 😂 Even young people who are extremely politically engaged don't often protest. The culture around politics aswell as the political system is completely different. We don't vote on individual policy changes, unless it involves a change to the constitution which involves a referendum. We are good at referendums in Ireland, we do them well.
@@sc8717 Yeah, totally. That's one of my biggest gripes with the protest critique I've read about her work. Everyone tries to fit it within an American context. But even in an American context, there isn't even a popular Marxist tradition to draw from. There's simply no popular language or awareness about the issues she writes about. Protests here are largely centered around identity issues rather than class consciousness. And I think there is something to be said about the American belief that participating in protests is a necessary marker of political activism. I think that's fallacious and in the case of bad faith reviewers like Rothfeld, it's used to suppress and gatekeep a leftist perspective.
Personally I love it when people who have never lived through communism or had immediate family live through it, call themselves communist. And by love I mean I'm really tired of it.
I've only read two Sally Rooneys (Conversations and Beautiful World). I found them trite, possibly because (as you say) I wasn't putting it into an Irish context. But since I'll never know the Irish context, better not to waste time reading her anymore.
I don’t think it’s impossible to understand the Irish context, it just takes a little more effort. But I do agree there’s no point wasting g time reading books you don’t enjoy
@@diamond_dew It's funny. I can read books that were written two centuries ago and find them interesting and worth my time. Sally Rooney's fiction- contemporary work- feels meaningless to me. Is it too subtle? Possibly. Or it might just be very trite. I do suspect it's the latter.
@@e.o.s.4768Same. Perhaps I haven’t read enough Rooney - one novel which left me entirely cold, like these were the emptiest, most meaningless of characters - but Dostoevsky, George Eliot, etc are so enriching. Maybe her subtlety is lost on me.
Thank you so much for this video! I tried Sally Rooney's Conversations with Friends and found it a challenge, and after watching this video you've shed light on the fact that I hadn't thought of Sally Rooney's works in this way. I know I also have missed context from what I have read as I'm not Irish. After watching this video, I'm keen to try her works again. Do you still have Instagram? I was going to share this video there but found I wasn't able to tag you because your link to Instagram in your RUclips bio doesn't work.
This definitely makes me more interested in Sally Rooney, I worked in a bookstore for a while and nothing anyone said piqued my interest about it, but this? Okay. Maybe I'll check it out.
Thank you, hope you enjoy
This makes me want to revisit her. I didn’t really like what I've read so far. Like I just haven't got whatever it is people have praised so much, but maybe this will help recontextualize some things and make it more interesting.
It’s nice to see someone actually do research and analysis on a piece of work rather than just be a hater to jump on the bandwagon of haters
Denying yourself material goods has nothing to do with Marxism. It's not a poverty cult. It's about workers owning and controlling the means of production.
Really interesting essay, I enjoyed it so much! I love fiction that deals with class systems - Elena Ferrante's books are great for that too, from the Italian perspective.
Thank you, I need to read Ferrante!
The neopolitan quartet might be my favourite novels of all time 👀👀
BRILLIANT video essay, thank you! You speak in such an engaging and intelligent way
Wow, thank you!
This was excellent, really well done! As an American reader, I found your discussion of the modern political context of Ireland particularly helpful.
I’m glad it was helpful
I was thinking of the differences in communication styles and politeness--different understandings of politeness mean that it can actually come across as meanness, or bewildering... so fascinating!
That is definitely something that can cause confusion!
Thank you so much for this essay! I really appreciate having more context for Rooney’s class commentary. I always have found her books really interesting and layered and frequently I am confused by reviews that skim over her class commentary, especially.
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed
you are such a legend for this video! I realized how little I had understood Rooney before.
I have to reread now)))
Thank you so much!
Five years ago I wrote my bachelors thesis largely on the politics of Normal People and this is scratching all kinds of itches ❤ the context of post-recession ireland went way over my head though as someone who never lived there so im glad i learned something new!
I’m glad you enjoyed as someone who knows the topic well!
Thank you. Opened my eyes on my one Sally Rooney reading, Normal People, the specific and the universal. A throwback in some ways to the 19th century authors who were more upfront about this.
Glad you appreciated it
as an american fan thank you so much for the context at the start! I knew some of it, but you taught me some new info about Ireland's unique global position. Great analysis. It's shocking how many people overlook Rooney's blatant politics (maybe because she is such an unabashed romantic?)
Yes, I think you're right
this is such a great video/essay. You did an amazing job! I have thought all the same things about some criticism of Rooney's work, and you put them perfectly into words, with sources. Thank you!
Thank you so much!
this was so incredibly informative! loved the context you gave on ireland's socio-political geography. now i want. toreread Rooney!
Thank you 😊
Never read a Rooney book, but this was super interesting and well explained - thanks!
Thank you! Glad you found it interesting
As an Irish person it's very frustrating sometimes to read critiques from American or British Tik Tokkers who've taken no time to consider the novels in their Irish cultural context. If they were critiquing a novel written by an African or Japanese author it would be very quickly understood that the culture of those countries are vital to understanding the characters, but because Ireland is an English speaking country they feel they claim authority over it without doing any of the work to understand it.
As a middle-class person who grew up in the West of Ireland and then went to Trinity College, Normal People was a deeply personal and relatable book. The scene where Conall wants Marianne to offer for him to stay with her is a great example. Ireland is a very indirect culture, you can't accept a slice of cake or a cup of tea without declining at least twice first. So hosts will almost always ask three times incase the guest felt obligated to say no the first two times. The colonised mindset seeps into every interaction, you can be seen to have aspirations above your station or any sort of high opinion of yourself. Asking Marianne if he can stay is simply too much of an imposition to ask of someone, because Irish people find it very difficult to say no to requests. For Conall, it's worse because of the class disparity between them, it's embarrassing to be seen as reliant on someone else's wealth. For Marianne, she is still deeply insecure and affected by what happened at the beginning of the novel. Being kept as a secret very deeply cuts into her self-worth and feelings of isolation in their hometown. She needs Conall to be forward with her. If they were able to just put everything on the table it would defeat the entire point of the novel and be deeply unrealistic to the class and gender dynamics Rooney had set up. The book is filled with nuances like these that get steam rolled by people who can't understand a characters point of view because they don't understand the class, gender or generational dynamics at play.
All of this is a very long winded way of saying thank you for pointing this out in your video, it was refreshing!
Thank you, I enjoyed it very much
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed
I’m not a fan of Rooney, but this is the best context of her work I have ever seen and I am really grateful to understand more what her work is aiming to do. Thank you.
Wow, thank you so much!
Such a great video loved hearing your thoughts !!
Thank you!
This was a brilliant video essay! I've only read Normal People and I'm definitely curious about her latter two books now.
I home you enjoy them if you do
Not a Sally Rooney fan, but I loved this video and the discourse.
Thank you!
Now I want to read Sally Rooney
I read normal people when it came out and loved it but was really turned off by it being turned into a show and all the conversation about it as a romance. I read Intermezzo (started it while in Dublin which was cool!) and was reminded of how deep Sally Rooney's writing goes, especially when it comes to class. Planning on re-reading Normal People just to get back to what I loved about it the first time
I'm so glad I stumbled upon this video, you're astute analysis and theming (I loved the little touch of matching your outfit with the colour scheme of the book) was so entertaining and informative. If I'm honest, I've never got into Sally Rooney. I first watched the BBC adaptation of Normal People and genuinely almost couldnt finish it despite the hype, so then I decided I'd just read the book instead. The same thing happened. The I tried conversations with friends- same problem. Intermezzo is actually the first book I've been really entertained and challenged emotionally by. Thank you for the video Roisin!
Thank you so much, glad you noticed my matching
Great topic and happy to find you and subscribe 🤗💙
Welcome aboard!
incredible video
Thank you
excellent video essay! i know you're not always as keen to make so many of these bc they're a lot of work, but you are very good at them :)
Thank you, I’m thinking about cutting back on the other stuff to give more time to the essays cause I have ideas
@ ooooh 👀
great essay! I have never read Sally Rooney but this video has made me want to read her work. Would you recommend starting with "Normal People"?
That's where I started! I think it'll give you an idea if you like her style or not. Or you could start with Intermezzo as well.
I'm sorry, I understand your point, but watching this I could not stop feeling like the message is: you need to have context from Irish history to be able to understand the political value of Sally Rooney´s books...
That’s certainly part of it
I just started watching your video but at the 27 seconds mark, after seeing that screenshot, I had to pause it and take a deep breath. As a person who was born, grew up and still lives in a former soviet republic, my patience with people who go around quote putin's words is growing thinner by the day. Do these "intellectuals" who are apparently fighting for equality even consider us, people from former soviet republics equal? My country, like many others that forced to "join" ussr, was occupied by the red army and thousands of people died in repressions that followed that occupation. Before that, for over a hundred year, we were fighting for our freedom from Russian empire. But apparently, for this lady the long awaited freedom of my people (and many others, including Russians btw) is the death of the World's beauty?! When will the people from fairly well-off countries stop fetishizing Soviet Union (and quite often Russian empire ,along the way) while actively criticizing western imperialism? Do they even realize how hypocritical that sounds? Genuinely, what the hell is going on?
Just to clarify - that quote isn't directly from Rooney but from one of the characters in her books. It also said in the book ironically but has been taken out of context by the Daily Mail to stir up anger. I can understand why you would have a strong reaction
@@RoisinsReading Thank you for the correction! I looked for the original after making a comment and realized that it was a quote from the book, I should have edited the comment. The idea expressed in the quote unfortunately has become a common sentiment expressed towards us any time we attempt to share/talk about our complicated relationship with ussr. The moment it appeared on screen I saw red (no pun intended). Sincerely sorry if I came off too strongly. After watching the full video, I'm not sure I'm the right audience for her books but I'll give "beautiful world, where are you" a try to form a more coherent opinion on the quote. Fantastic video btw, well-paced and very informative!
Thank you very much, you didn't come off too strong at all!
Mimetic displays seem to make up the majority of the political interactions in rooneys books. As far as I can see. This does not imo reduce the quality of her work, but it may not be doing here exactly what the author wants it to do.
The thing I found odd as an American is that none of her characters go to protests or attend organizing meetings or canvass for candidates or policy changes (other than Connell and that one Palestine march). I wasn't sure if there were cultural reasons for this (is it easier for Americans to get initiatives on the ballot or fight for higher minimum wages?) or because her characters were more interested in intellectualizing leftism than participating in it.
I mean I don’t live in Ireland, but in the UK ballot initiatives aren’t a thing, we have a centralised system, not a federated one, so we don’t vote on issues. We can only have referenda and that doesn’t always go great (brexit). It I think the reason may be that Rooney stories are about intimate interpersonal relationships, Simon works for a left wing political party in Beautiful World Where Are You, much of his life must revolve around campaigning, but because it doesn’t serve the story, we don’t hear about it.
I think those things are outside the scope of her books (although at the end of Normal People, there is a section about Marianne getting more engaged with political activism through protests). What's important to understand that is she's probably just examining small parts of life and how capitalism as a structure and ideology influence them. Even if a character isn't a Marxist or politically aware, they are still going to be affected by these things. I agree with Roisin's response that since the stories are not about organizing, it doesn't serve the story to have them featured as part of the plot.
I think a lot of American readers (not a personal comment on you, just something I've observed) seem to make the mistake of thinking that because Ireland is an English speaking, predominantly white western country that it is the same as America. It's a completely different country with a completely different psyche. Irish people don't generally protest lol 😂 Even young people who are extremely politically engaged don't often protest. The culture around politics aswell as the political system is completely different. We don't vote on individual policy changes, unless it involves a change to the constitution which involves a referendum. We are good at referendums in Ireland, we do them well.
marxism is not about organizing meetings or canvassing- it's a theory of revolution and an ontology of labor.
@@sc8717 Yeah, totally. That's one of my biggest gripes with the protest critique I've read about her work. Everyone tries to fit it within an American context. But even in an American context, there isn't even a popular Marxist tradition to draw from. There's simply no popular language or awareness about the issues she writes about. Protests here are largely centered around identity issues rather than class consciousness. And I think there is something to be said about the American belief that participating in protests is a necessary marker of political activism. I think that's fallacious and in the case of bad faith reviewers like Rothfeld, it's used to suppress and gatekeep a leftist perspective.
Personally I love it when people who have never lived through communism or had immediate family live through it, call themselves communist. And by love I mean I'm really tired of it.
What a captivating analysis. 😂
It just rubs me the wrong way someone from a middle class background politicising.
I've only read two Sally Rooneys (Conversations and Beautiful World). I found them trite, possibly because (as you say) I wasn't putting it into an Irish context. But since I'll never know the Irish context, better not to waste time reading her anymore.
Isn't that the whole point of reading fiction
I don’t think it’s impossible to understand the Irish context, it just takes a little more effort. But I do agree there’s no point wasting g time reading books you don’t enjoy
@@diamond_dewthe right response to this
@@diamond_dew It's funny. I can read books that were written two centuries ago and find them interesting and worth my time. Sally Rooney's fiction- contemporary work- feels meaningless to me. Is it too subtle? Possibly. Or it might just be very trite. I do suspect it's the latter.
@@e.o.s.4768Same. Perhaps I haven’t read enough Rooney - one novel which left me entirely cold, like these were the emptiest, most meaningless of characters - but Dostoevsky, George Eliot, etc are so enriching. Maybe her subtlety is lost on me.
Thank you so much for this video! I tried Sally Rooney's Conversations with Friends and found it a challenge, and after watching this video you've shed light on the fact that I hadn't thought of Sally Rooney's works in this way. I know I also have missed context from what I have read as I'm not Irish. After watching this video, I'm keen to try her works again.
Do you still have Instagram? I was going to share this video there but found I wasn't able to tag you because your link to Instagram in your RUclips bio doesn't work.
Thank you so much! Yes, I do have Instagram instagram.com/roisinsreading/profilecard/?igsh=cnZqaWNmbjhwa3V2
I'll have to update my profile
Bought the book recently and will read it soon! It’s my first book of her, I found the cover and the first page intriguing.
I really like the cover too