My first instinct was to counter "Love is love" with: "God is love," following that statement up with "Love is willing the good of the other." I hadn't thought about the coherence aspect of it, but I will now. Good analogies, Brian. I will use them myself!
We had a campaign in Hungary with #GodIsLove as a response to the overflowing #LoveIsLove campaign. It worked pretty well: it was a visible pushback what cannot be negated or minimized.
@YAJUN YUAN simple. they're wrong. People not following the magisterium doesnt make the magisterium not the magisterium. Also, leave the fake church founded by a woman (cringe) and join the real Church founded by God so you can go to Heaven.
This was such a timely and wonderful video for me tonight. Not because of anything regarding same-sex relationships or the subject matter, but because I needed a reminder to use my reason instead of feelings. I was so grumpy today and I couldn't understand why I was refusing to clean my kitchen when a few days ago I felt motivated and got lots done. Listening to your video reminded me that doing the right thing isn't based on feelings of motivation. I'm determined to be more disciplined tomorrow! Thank you!
Enjoy hearing your thoughts on this! "Pride is Pride". Was my grandmother's reply 18 Pride goeth before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Pope Francis in both doing love and being love authorised on 10 June 2021 or just after simultaneously with an absolute power love as keeping inseparability and qualitative equality; that is, covenant, non-presumed reciprocity, of mercy and justice in his Vatican State Secretariat of State criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and protest note to the Italian Government.
Pope Francis in both doing love and being love authorised on 10 June 2021 or just after simultaneously with an absolute power of authorisation love as the keeping or allowing of inseparability and qualitative equality, that is covenant, non-presumed reciprocity, of justice and mercy in his Vatican State criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others in their procreation gift roles for alleged embezzlement of charity donations within the family and a protest note to the Italian Government against an alleged unacceptable risk of fraud on identities of family members of male-female marriages need of union
I think what he means is the possibility of conscious reciprocation. Meaning it has the possibility of being understood and accepted for what it is, and the possibility of being returned.
Thanks for mentioning the "Catholic school pride flag" epidemic. I went to a Catholic elementary school for nine years, and am just now beginning to see how "Catholic" schools really need to up their game. AKA: stop trying to be public schools and practicing what they preach.
Not sure where youre from, but in Canada most Catholic schools are funded by the province, there are some private, but I will only refer to the public funded schools. Its super easy for politicians to score brownie points by going after them and encroach on Catholic beliefs. They implicitly threaten Catholic Schools' funding when they do this. Also schools here cant only hire Catholics who follow Catholic values. Secularism is rampant in Catholic schools.
@YAJUN YUAN which catholic is saying the gospels were written by someone else? The authors names are literally on the book. Unless youre getting confused with those who translated from its original languages. Because there are issues there
@YAJUN YUAN Brown had many fringe views and his argument relied solely on Scripture, which is not what the Church teaches. Scripture AND Tradition are important and valid. So its no surprise really that when one looks at one and excludes the other, they dont get the whole picture. And if I recall, Brown never made any definitive statements he posed theories.
" 'Catholic' schools" "trying to be public schools" is consequentialism duopsony in utilitarian ethics. It follows from the family not requiring from these helpers of the family respect for what they consider to be their rights and simultaneously these helpers of the family not making the family aware of its identity and its role.
I believe in uncertainty that love includes sex that is keeping or allowing of covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of thinking procreation helper role gift within the family and having faith in meeting family members' identities need for union
@@oliverclark5604 what? You "believe in uncertainty that love includes sex"? Friendship is a form of love. So is giving to the poor. Neither of those include sex. We aren't just talking about marital love here.
@@realmless4193 Much of the comment is about sexual matters or issues. I chose to comment on the sexual matters or issues. C.S. Lewis in his "The Four Loves" has "Friendship" as one. Lewis, I believe as defined as in uncertainty, would have "giving to the poor" as "Caritas", the highest do-ing or be-ing of love.
@@oliverclark5604 they're trying to say "love is love" and they convey a message by attaching different meanings to both ends of the word. I am just making the meaning of the slogan explicit and saying it is wrong.
@@realmless4193 I put it: love is and does love as inseparable and qualitatively equal. "Higher vocation" of roman catholic consecrated celibates to male female marriage as taught by the roman catholic church (TTMHS, PCF, 1995, 35) is separated and qualitatively unequal. Who is setting a bad example? Who and or what caused this church role group to teach this and why? Is the greed of family members the cause? Is this greed for insurance and tax concessions?
The short bit on "pleasure for the sake of pleasure" is interesting. It makes me think about my own recreational activities. If I play sports for fun, I might gain better health. If I go out binge drinking with friends or do drugs, I'll suffer harm in the long run. Perhaps we shouldn't engage in activity for the sake of pleasure but for good, measuring our actions based on their consequences.
Pride is one of the deadly sins. Love is not love. You do not love your child as you love your spouse, or your dad/mom the same as your spouse, your bestie the same as your child, cheesecake the same as your kid, and on and on. people just sound completely ridiculous.
But what is pride, as it pertains to sin? Is civic pride sinful? Is pride in one's country sinful? Pride in one's achievements, or one's work? Pride in you children, your spouse, or your family? Is there a difference between these and pride in one's self?
@@trikebeatstrexnodiff What do you mean by "support them". I love LGBT people and I know God loves them, that's why I want them to change their ways and not stay the same. There's nothing supporting about letting people stay in sin. As a second note, Love isn't in a grade. Different types of love don't mean different measures of love.
I love cheesecake is just an expression on how much you like cheesecake. I love you to a human such as a child and a spouse are the same. Spouses express that love in a different way aka giving of self to the other through intercourse. A mother might Express her love through giving herself to the child via hard work to provide for the child. Just my 2 cents...
The catholic doctrine states just that, people who feel attract to the same sex should stay in state of chastity. Now when we talk about chastity we also refers to the mind and thoughts not just physical. I will comment in something you said before " I love all LG..people" and to say that shows that you don't see them as people you see them as a group who is cool to support. I'm not refer to me as " and heterosexual " when I meet somebody, I see the problem of postmodern society is the labels and identities, but in a context of God relationship with us humans that category doesn't exist, we are humans first, and humans are in some ways complex and sinful because we are weak, but we should never being allowed to be put in a sex category because that is minimizing HS and limiting us, after all we don't need sex to live, human race needs to create more humans or we will be extent, but as individuals we need water, food , sleep mainly, sex is very far away or should in our priorities. Of course in the hiperd sexualized American society that looks like an impossible, but it is not. Control of our basics instincts if what give us freedom, not the opposite, it was give us strength, no the opposite. There's an agenda behind the sexual revolution if the 60 but that is another topic. Think that the most of the social problems that the world face today it would be fixed by chastity if the soul, body and mind.
@@karolkuter5194 That's because you are confusing sexual attraction with love. That is understandable, because our society has been confusing the two for a thousand years. They are nonetheless different.
One wonders why parish priests, bishops, cardinals and even popes can't speak like an unassuming, faithful layman. Further, there's no "hate", no loathing ad advertised by the narrative writers. Just a reasoned argument for Love's ultimate and time-honored definition. Well done Mr Holdsworth.
@Richard Fox if same sex love was natural then it would produce children naturally. After all words like homosexual or heterosexual or asexual have been used scientifically not to define attraction, but to define how offspring are made. For example an asexual plant doesn’t lack attraction to others because of it sexuality (but because it’s a plant). An asexual plant is called asexual because that’s how it creates offspring.
@@thehungarywaffleinc.7775 That's a good point, because moral relativism is rampant and confusing, because people choose this way of thinking, in order to be so-called "special," than everyone else.
I don't really get the point. Every slogan is inherently narrow and weak, but "love is love" comes in a certain context and meas something specific. It meas: the love of a gay couple is equal to the love present in a straight couple. It's love. It is, in fact "willing the good of another", not a different thing. Words are slogan, every single word reduces the complexity of things and concepts to its minimal significant form.
I just talked with an old friend I hadn’t heard from in years. Her & her husband & kids were very Catholic. Now she says they’ve quit practicing because “the Church doesn’t stand for anything anymore.”
That sounds really unfortunate. We are the church. It won't change by not practicing. We need to be there once these trends die--with the people who advocate them if that is what it takes. The people who hold these views aren't exactly practicing either.
Those who endure until the end are saved. Please remind them. Quitting right before you reach the finish line when you were winning is such a waste of previous time spent.
A role cannot "stand". I believe some honest very few in this role, including Pope Francis, are realising this and ceasing purporting presuming to be an identity that can "stand"
@YAJUN YUAN Are Catholic schools teaching the story of Genesis is a myth? I heard it myself in RCIA so I believe this could be true. That's one more reason why I don't trust this pope. How could he allow this?
"What is truth", Pilate is reported replying to Christ at his trial before Pilate. I believe in uncertainty that "truth" is the keeping or allowing of covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of justice and mercy. This keeping or allowing is presently evident in Pope Francis' authorisation simultaneously in justice and mercy on or just after 10 June 2021 of his Vatican State Secretariat of State's criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others for embezzlement of charity donations which trial is continuing presently and protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of fraud on the keeping of union of identities in male-female marriages by the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian Parliament (defeated in early November 2021) in both cases for not keeping or allowing this covenant, non-presumed reciprocity
Did he say in same sex relationships there is no companionship? If i got that right, then that is fundamentally wrong, it has been proven that the companionship and even emotional intimacy is far more stronger among the same sex than in the others, and it is NOT related to sexual activities.
No he didn't say that. Companionship can be found in many relationships and is generally a good, his argument is that it is the sexual component of the same sex relationship that is the problem, not the care companionship part.
Love is willing the good of another, so we do not actually love if we love someone “just the way they are” we are forgetting the good we need to will for them. None of us are so good that we do not need more good. Love is not sex, marital love includes sex, if it is only sex there is no love.
love as the keeping of the inseparability and qualitative equality of justice and mercy, as kept by Pope Francis, includes sex that is covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of procreation role process gift within the family and progress in meeting need of identities of family members for union.
Love is for like: "You take someone part of yourself. And when you are willing to give something to someone. You will like to give, and don't ask anything back." now I will also thx to Brian take this to. "You want to do something good to another." Love this topic ❣️
The equating of "love" with sex in our modern society is a good display of how profoundly sick our society has become. In this day and age, it's become impossible for two people of the same sex to have a deep love for one another, willing to do anything, even laying down their life for the other, feeling intense joy when they do something great or push beyond their limitations, and grieving deeply when you lose them, without people saying, "Oh, those two are gay." How myopic our society's view of the concept of love is. It makes my head shudder uncontrollably.
The saying contains meaning by implication. It's meant to convey the sense that love is not a choice as is the case with homosexuality in this context.
@Richard Fox "it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right." The discussion here essentially about what is wrong and what is right and who gets to determine that. We say God decides that so we follow what God has commanded and willed.
@Richard Fox you’re confusing specific commandments and records of societal activities. Plenty of things are documented in the Bible that are clearly wrong, that doesn’t mean they’re advocated.
@Richard Fox watch this video to hopefully clear confusion about the whole stoning disobedient children at the city gates thing in the bible ruclips.net/video/b7XHqQ3J6eg/видео.html
Lust is NOT love... in fact its actually about our self and not another. But lust always seems to be confused with love that actually gives up what we want for the benefit of others.
Your point is truly a very tiny, tiny point. if you are HONEST you find that the human race would have died out eons ago without at least some element of which in my estimation is all perfectly normal, natural, healthy and good! 99.99% of men I would posit like, enjoy and celebrate the sexual aspect of their lives at least in the sense of enjoying it and being grateful for it! I think you will find that for most men both love and lust are all mixed up together and are pretty indivisible. Of course pure unadulterated lust without love in a physical union is actually something quite disgusting and really quite obscene!
Ok, quite a bit said there. Firstly we shouldnt assume what sexual practices people engage in regardless of their orientation. It's their business anyway. Secondly, responsible consenting adults engaged in monogamous intimate relationships are out of sight and harming no-one, so again- nobody's business. The Catholic position should be neither to encourage or discourage but to instruct on genuine responsibility in our relationships with each other. Condemnation will only alienate good people. Be aware of personal boundaries.
@@joan8862 I think its helpful to remember that having same sex attraction is not a sin. But acting on it, and promoting it is. You can be attracted to the same sex or gender dysmorphic and be a good Catholic.
@@Tttb95 "Catholic" is a do-ing role neither good nor bad. Family member be-ing identity can be good or bad in its conduct. The groomed same sex attraction is to purporting presuming inversion of do-ing role and be-ing identity. How do we help a person to submit to correction; that is, healing, of this groomed attempted inversion?
@@joan8862 If the family, if it "can and must" (CL, 40), requires of the homosexual person their respect for what they consider to be their rights; that would include not been born or drawn into gender dysmorphia, then simultaneously this person has exercised their right "to make the family aware of its identity ... and its role ..." (Pope St John Paul 11's exhortation CL, 1988, n.40)
An excellent monologue on the subject. Coherent and consistent with biblical principles. The comments concerning Catholic school education, couldn't be more accurate. Brian explained the three different types of Love as taught theologically by the Apostle Paul. 1. Eros, 2. Philos and 3. Agape
Good point Brian! When slogans are used to justify arguments, truth is the first victim. The more fundamental problem is that, when emotionally or irrationally based positions or ideologies take precedence over the truth, then truth, politically speaking, doesn't matter. The temptation for those who premise their arguments on truth is to continue to assume that it actually matters in terms of not only public discourse with tyrants of irrational ideologies, but more importantly in terms of public policy by way of public pressure or actual legislation. That's where the rubber hits the road, because that's when public penalties, sanctions, and soft persecution begins. Then we who subscribe to truth and logic based thereupon cry the blues when, really, what we should be doing is considering strategy in the spiritual combat, recognising and realising that the conflict has shifted from reasoned and respectable discourse to one simply of force. In other words, it's one thing to redirect a stranger from entering your house. It's another thing to bolt the door to keep a burglar from breaking into your house. The first is done with reasoned communication. The other accepts that the relationship is reduced to applying strategy to survive the tyrant. Yes, society is that far gone, because many have become enslaved to selfishness and ego. Agreed: It's incumbent upon the Love-is-love theorists to prove that they are right. In other words, the claimant bears the burden or proof. So, let them do so without gravitating automatically into a defensive position and shifting unto oneself the burden of proof. Yes, there are Catholic hijackers in schools, but then they are easily duped into becoming puppets. Sadly, it seems that ecclesiastical authorities don't exercise their shepherding authority to set clear boundaries.
Thank you for your words of truth. As a person who has been struggling with SSA his entire life as a nonbeliever - and finally found liberation through the love of Our Lord Jesus Christ - I found this video particularly compelling. I wish I could spend the time left for me on this earth to warn off people against sin.
Great assessment. Well done. I think the challenge with preaching the truth over lies is that truth needs a 17 minute speech while a lie is conveyed in a brief (shallow) slogan.
I believe in my uncertainty that it may be that you "can and must" (Pope St John Paul 2, CL, 1988, 40) exercise the cardinal virtue of "Prudence" (CCC 1806) against purporting presuming "a thought" can be given. I believe in my uncertainty that "a thought" as a procreation role gift within the family in Christ and a family member be-ing in need of union of family members of valid and proper male female marriages' identities is such that only meeting this need can be 'given' as in "gave". In my male-female marriage vows in God, Oliver
Your thought processes are expressed in a clean liner way that is easy for the listener to understand. I appreciate your simple break down of love and its application towards a homosexual relationship. Nice video. You speak with conviction for the truth regardless of whether or not it is in line with mainstream ideology. God bless you for that.
My Catholic school was similar in this way, however it embraces homosexual relationships because the religious order connected to it also actively embraced it. How so we reconcile religious communities teaching and promoting homosexuality as Catholicism?
You can’t reconcile it, the school and the religious order are in severe error and causing scandal. Worst, they are leading innocent children into sinful ideologies. Better a millstone around the neck… We can only pray and advocate for their conversion to truth.
I believe in uncertainty that this reconciliation is not possible. What is possible is simultaneous by helper of the family persons in procreation gift roles making the family aware of its identity and role and by the family requiring from all respect for what helpers of the family consider to be their rights. The attempt at this reconciliation follows vulnerable members of families not requiring this respect and vulnerable helpers of the family not making this awareness since in both cases as emotionally and or psychologically vulnerable groomed by "familyist" family members for their families' economic advantage of tax and insurance with occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, non-economic status inducements of "higher vocation" (Pope St John Paul 11's Council for the Family 'teaching' document: "The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality: Guidelines for Education Within the Family", PCF, 1995, 35). Family members in their reason thinking or having faith feeling that they have this "higher [non-economic] vocation" whether as helper of families' consecrated celibates in the roman catholic role group (e.g. as teachers in catholic schools) or as helper of families' citizens in society (e.g. a scout group) claim tax exemption as charities and low insurance cost since "higher vocations" that reduce the fees they charge families for their services.
Is there a particular reason why sex is an important to loving relationships in the Catholic mindset (or just in general)? I'm not Catholic, so I need some understanding here. I've been in a relationship with my partner for 6 years now, and honestly haven't felt the need to have sex with them often. Love between partners can exist and flourish with or without sex in my personal opinion. And before any of you say so, our relationship is definitely more than a friendship, but we are friends and have a strong friendship and have grown together over the years. I would hopefully love to spend the rest of my life with my partner and possibly start a family with them one day. But as of right now, I am fine with simply speaking words of love, showing my love through actions, trying to do right by them, etc. Another thing, I think there are some that are possibly taking the "love is love" slogan out of context, or simply thinking too long and hard about it or trying to misconstrue it for something it is not. It is a slogan, it is meant to be short and sweet, easily identifiable, and easy to catch on. There's no ulterior motive behind it, "love is love" is about how LGBTQ folks experience the capacity of love just the same as straight and cisgender folks do despite the whole of society's unwillingness to believe so and to look down and think that there is something inherently debase about these relationships. LGBTQ folks are also not living by an ideology, they are living as themselves. Let me ask you, are you as a straight person (assuming you the reader are straight) living by an ideology because of your straightness?
Okay, my refutation is squarely aimed at the idea that the only real definition of Love is to will the good of other people. If you didn't mean it quite as literally as all that, then please ignore. I disagree that the definition of Love is simply willing the good of another. I can (and should) will the good of people I dislike, just as much as I will the good of those I like. But, for instance, I don't think anyone's girlfriend/wife would be delighted to hear their partner loves them in the same way, to the same degree, as their partner loves his least-favourite people! There must be a reason for that. But if we claim that there is only one kind of true love, that all other ideas of it are untrue, then there should be no issue there. And if Love is just willing the good of others, surely we must will everyone the same degree of goodness and, therefore- going by that definition of love- we wouldn't be allowed any 'especial' loving relationships, (as I and many people like to believe we have in romantic relationships) since it would be a moral imperative to love ALL equally. That seems... a shame. Say what you will but I think there's something wonderful about the idea of 'soul mates'. What of appreciative love? Eros and agape are not the same, although they can and do relate. I don't see how a beatific vision would ever be possible if appreciative love (which is exactly what Eros is, at its best) isn't really a true definition of love at all. How then would we ever celebrate or glorify? I DO agree that love isn't just an emotion. But surely appreciative love isn't just a feeling, either? I can see, quite rationally, how my favourite people have numerous good qualities- everything from physical beauty to kindness- and this can be beheld quite logically without it having to be witnessed via an emotional state. Furthermore, surely 'good' means 'that which is most lovable'? So if love is JUST to will the good of others, when you do this for them, you're ultimately willing that they too shall will the good for others (if that is the definition of what goodness is in its entirety, this is the fate you've just willed for them). But if there's no appreciative love, if love is just charity and has no other attributes like enjoyment or approval, then what, in this endless merry-go-round of giving, is actually being gifted? It's pass-the-parcel, but nobody actually receives anything. So I'm not saying agape/charity is unimportant or not a central part of what love is... but I certainly wouldn't claim it IS the very definition of all of what Love is. An important part, yes but clearly not the full picture. I think when people say 'love is love', they mean that 'to romantically appreciate the good in people is itself a good thing, and so why judge it?' You might disagree with that. But I don't believe that it's a slogan brought out by people wishing to duck an intellectual exchange of ideas! Not sure how many people, believers, catholic, atheist or otherwise, EVER really engage in that sort of debate these days. And yes, it's a simplistic slogan. But so are many things the laymen of the Church say in relation to their faith. 'God is Love' is often said by people who have never really explored in depth what that means. Yes, as you can guess, I'm pro- LGBTQ rights. Heterosexual and theist though I am. But, even though you disagree with that stance, I hope my argument here makes sense to you and I commend you for articulating your perspective. Sorry for going on a bit. I'm incapable of writing anything short.
One way to practically respond to that slogan is "Well, that's obvious, but what *brand* of love are you talking about? They have different roles. For instance, ever try eating rose bread? Not that nutritious, but they do make lovely valentine's day gifts- the flowers, I mean." or something like that. Basically turn it all around on them and make them either define what they mean or realize how ridiculous their claim is, and how utterly pointless such a claim really is.
It seems the "love is love" meme is simply to make any form of attraction and affection equally, and therefore completely, valid. "Love is good....this is love...therefore this is good." It is wildly simplistic reasoning. What of adulterous love? A person may indeed love that other person, and the connection can be more than just sexual, but does it lead to abandonment of another, and / or the betrayal of another persons wife or husband and children? Is that OK because "love is love"? What of polygamy? "Love is Love"? Incest? "love is love"? To declare "all is good, because all is love" is not an argument at all. It is only a demand that one not examine the matter further, suspend all discernment, and conform.
"Society isn't that far gone"? Yes, it is. "Love is love" has since the 60s applied to pedophiles and sexual predators. "Is love a crime?" was a question asked by Gabriel Matzneff in 1976 in the newspaper Le Monde (the French equivalent to the NYT). Matzneff is an author who won literary prizes, and his books all deal with the same subject matter : his "loving" relationships with children. This question appeared as an open letter in which he argued that "love" has no age limit. It was signed by famous intellectuals and politicians, like Sartre or De Beauvoir. Speaking of De Beauvoir, before she became known as a famous "feminist" and "intellectual", she had been kicked out of the French school system because she had been identified as a groomer, was sleeping with students and then sent them off to Sartre. Schools in France are still named after both them. Today, in North America, NAMBLA has become a joke, but people should look into the MAPs movement, a notable successor, not afraid to proclaim their "love" and attraction for the youngest. To them "love is love".
@@hobbiton64 What priests have a reputation for is in the main caused by "familyist" family persons grooming them with a non-economic status inducement for these familyists' families economic tax and insurance advantages. No wonder so used these priests act out including by sexual abuse.
Your analogy of the farm fields is helpful to me. I'll borrow it in future debates. "Love is love" is a tautology, which is a logical fallacy. English is deficient in distinguishing various kinds of love. The Japanese word for the love between husband and wife is "ai," pronounced like English,"I." It means "working in harmony towards the common goal [the continuation and well-being of the family]." As always, 3 Aves for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻
Been reading Pope JP II's book "Love and Responsibility". Very much ties into what you spoke of. I recommend it to anyone for helping them with their relationships/marriage!
Love is the bond that allows distinct persons to stay distinct from each other while share an essential unity in the relationship between those distinct persons, and that is only achieved by self sacrifice, willing the good of the other, that's how the Most Holy Trinity is essentially, that's why we say God is Love, because his very being is that perfect self sacrificial love between persons that will the good of the other person, and that allows a loving relationship that unites those distinct persons essentially.
What's up Brian. Seeing as the pride flag like any symbol has many meanings, can there be a Catholic meaning for the flag? Is it possible, with the authority the Church has, even over symbols, that flying the flag could be good with a certain meaning, like "welcoming all persons"? If not, could you use the sources of morality given in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to prove that flying the pride flag is necessarily morally evil?
The problem with saying "by flying the pride flag, we mean that we welcome all persons" is that that meaning is not what the pride flag is meant to convey, so it would just make those saying it look like fools.
In my opinion Love is forgiving your child. Love is not forgiving your child only if they accept your transactional offer for forgiveness. Love is most certainly not punishing your child and then punishing every other child ever born because of what your child did
That is as quality and quantity having their inseparability and qualitative equality kept or allowed in justice and mercy as Pope Francis is and did on 10 June 2021 or just after simultaneously in the criminal case of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others for not keeping or allowing "does" if as alleged embezzlement of helper of the family in their "doing" roles procreation gift charity donations within the family, that is role, and the protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of not keeping or allowing "is", that is, identity need of union of family members of male female marriages by the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian Parliament
My pastor said, back in the Garden of Eden it says, "God made Adam a suitable partner" & how that was fulfilled when Paul said, "Love your spouse as Christ loved the church" so if that's the case maybe gay marriage wouldn't be a sin... I would also like to point out that not everything can be determined by using analyzed statistical data something's have to be personally experienced. Good discussion though Brian! 😎 These are the discussions we should be having rather than ones out of scornful arrogance!
You don’t have to like what you ought to do. Ideally, your feelings should support the good of the other, whether they recognize that good or not. It’s all part of the spiritual battle.
or of a twisted tradition of "higher vocation" from an opinion not given by God of St Paul reported at 1Cor7:25-34 that Pope Francis has taken in his identity a stand against from 19 March 2013, Feast of St Joseph, in plain language by keeping the inseparability and qualitative equality of his identity as a valid and proper member of a family of valid and proper marriage in Christ as a consecrated celibate roman catholic Jesuit Order religious priest and his role as a helper of the family.
Thank you for covering an umbrella of issues on this video. I love your rational explanations and praying for you and your family. Have you read Trent Horn's "Made This Way" book? It discusses what the Catholic church and Natural law teaches about current sexual issues and has sections on how to talk to kids and teens about them when confronted with them.
I saw an exhibit that was a room with electronic boards that flashed aphorisms. There were dozens of them. It was interesting because it implied meaning. There was little meaning except for me.
They say Thomas Moore and John Fisher were only two of a handful of people that kept the Faith, while Henry the Eighth was going mad. Here we are 400 + years later.
Henry VIII wasn't going mad, but he would have been terribly surprised by the state of the Church of his kingdom even 100 years after his death, let alone today. However much the Church might fall short of her mission, we definitely do not have sexually active, homosexual bishops.
I believe in the uncertainty of belief that Moore and Fisher "kept" in uncertainty of belief covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of thinking and having faith
Brian, your mistake is assuming people want to live by coherent and reasonable principles. Many people enjoy the freedom of picking a stance on each individual moral issue without regard for the logical implications of each choice, like a pro-life person that supports IVF. Principles pose a threat to this freedom and may require someone to take a stance they don't like.
Yes! And it's almost pointless to argue with people like this because they do not care if their arguments do not follow logical reasoning. They actually get really excited when you point this out, as if they celebrating their own lunacy!
Love does love as well as is love. Keeping or allowing this inseparability and qualitative equality of doing and being as this love is an exercise of the cardinal virtue of prudence. "Prudence ... guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure" (CCC. 1806), including in guiding courage. A rule guiding exercise of courage is proportionality of ends to means and of good to be achieved to risk taken in this achieving. Measure in international economics became possible from the establishment of the League of Nations after WW1 when population being and food supplies doing in the developing countries were found to have "just about paripassu rate of growth".
school board trustees make the decision after enough arm twisting by education ministry. Pope could preach and remind us. But even catholics want to get re-invited to cocktail parties.
You explained the church is teaching beautifully. I have long understood why homosexual sexual relationships are wrong. And perhaps fortunately, I have not had to argue my position with a non-Catholic. However, if I Ever had to argue my position with a non-Catholic, and I suspect that the best I could do is explain why Catholics believe as they believe. I doubt my argument could ever gain traction with non-Catholics. That is because the large majority of even protestants do not value the procreative role of marriage. While they do believe in reserving sexual relations for the institution of marriage, they do not always and sometimes never believe the purpose of marriage is to procreate. What I would really love to hear discussed is how we as Catholics are to express our love to the LGBTQ community. Currently I just treat my LGBTQ friends with his much love and friendship as anyone else. When I teach my children on how to interact, I just remind them that these are also children of God and we must act with love and kindness. But what are Catholics supposed to do in situations like a gay Wedding? I get that I am not making too much sense here.
@@AnarchoAngel I believe in uncertainty that I can and must add after "is" "and does" love in mercy and justice as Pope Francis on or just after 10 June 2021 is and does in the criminal case of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others for not keeping or allowing "does", that is role, and the protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of not keeping or allowing "is", that is identity
Yes, "real presence" love in the keeping or allowing of the inseparability and qualitative equality; that is, covenant, non-presumed reciprocity, of valid and proper eucharist do-ing role and valid and proper marriage be-ing identities. For example, what I believe in my uncertainty what Pope Francis was and did in mercy and justice on or just after 10 June 2021 in his simultaneous authorisations with an absolute power of authorisation of his Vatican State Secretariat of State's criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others on allegations of embezzlement in their procreation helper of the family ensuring roles within the family of tax exempt charity donations and protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of fraud on insuring identities of family members of valid and proper male female marriages in need of union by the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian State Parliament.
I am grateful for the church and her teachings. Grateful for the correction. even with him regular relationships you find if there is no true commitment to Will the good that it does not work. as a young person, and then a little bit later into adulthood, and during all of this craziness, I once fell into this belief. oddly enough though in 2013 I worried about the church and how these type of beliefs would affect specifically the Catholic Church. I am sad at what I see.
@BVale It has do-ing as structure and be-ing as form. Respect is due for the keeping of the inseparability and qualitative equality of this do-ing structure and be-ing form.
I am shocked that a Catholic school would put up such a flag, let alone that there may a trend toward such which is widespread. I wondered where Brian found the photo, but according to other comments, it may not be entirely rare. Something wrong here...!
Very interesting argument! If the same-sex response is "we can have children in the same accepted ways that infertile couples do (invitro fertilization, surrogacy)", how do you distinguish this from the unique good resulting from male-female marriages? It has to do with your definition of love as working for the good of the other, and what this good would be uniquely defined as in a sexual context: children etc. Given the field metaphor, they would be working towards the same harvest the land is created for, but using extra fertilizer. Thoughts?
If by "the unique good resulting from male-female marriages", we mean the ability to conceive, both in-vitro fertilisation separate the act of procreation from the act of sexual union. Sure, a heterosexual man could masturbate, fertilise his wife's eggs in a test tube, and then have them placed inside her, or a pair of gay men can hire a woman to bear one the child of one of them, or two women could acquire semen from another man, but none of those are the same as doing "the real thing"
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.
I cannot read this without singing. Thank you 😂
I heard this comment 😳
lol
Hate this song
So yeah I read this singing it and now it’s stuck in my head. Thanks… not 😂
My first instinct was to counter "Love is love" with: "God is love," following that statement up with "Love is willing the good of the other." I hadn't thought about the coherence aspect of it, but I will now. Good analogies, Brian. I will use them myself!
We had a campaign in Hungary with #GodIsLove as a response to the overflowing #LoveIsLove campaign. It worked pretty well: it was a visible pushback what cannot be negated or minimized.
I felt tempted to answer "... And potatoes are potatoes, but I don't see how that has to do with anything...". Hahahaha
@YAJUN YUAN simple. they're wrong. People not following the magisterium doesnt make the magisterium not the magisterium.
Also, leave the fake church founded by a woman (cringe) and join the real Church founded by God so you can go to Heaven.
@Gee Ling obviously you do not know the God shown in the OT. Try to learn. There's no point attacking that which you do not know.
@László Attila Dózsa
Az Isten Szeretet
Any parent worth his salt knows that love is NOT indifferent permissiveness .
This was such a timely and wonderful video for me tonight. Not because of anything regarding same-sex relationships or the subject matter, but because I needed a reminder to use my reason instead of feelings. I was so grumpy today and I couldn't understand why I was refusing to clean my kitchen when a few days ago I felt motivated and got lots done. Listening to your video reminded me that doing the right thing isn't based on feelings of motivation. I'm determined to be more disciplined tomorrow! Thank you!
Remember to clean the crumbs out of the toaster, there's no love lost with that contraption. Blessings from an unusually sunny Scotland.
@@Rosshannah1695 still sunny in this part of Scotland!!! 👋
If you clean the glass door of your toaster oven, it'll change your disposition on life. Don't ask me why that happens, but it's a scientific fact.
Now I have to clean my kitchen. Good point in your take - great talk as well.
I'm asking for grace from God to enjoy each moment doing what needs to be done. Maybe try that.
Enjoy hearing your thoughts on this!
"Pride is Pride". Was my grandmother's reply
18 Pride goeth before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Go grandma!!! Great reply! 👍
"Water is water, go drink from the toilet"
Culture: "Love is Love"
Greeks: "Um, which Love are you talking about?"
Pope Francis in both doing love and being love authorised on 10 June 2021 or just after simultaneously with an absolute power love as keeping inseparability and qualitative equality; that is, covenant, non-presumed reciprocity, of mercy and justice in his Vatican State Secretariat of State criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and protest note to the Italian Government.
Pope Francis in both doing love and being love authorised on 10 June 2021 or just after simultaneously with an absolute power of authorisation love as the keeping or allowing of inseparability and qualitative equality, that is covenant, non-presumed reciprocity, of justice and mercy in his Vatican State criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others in their procreation gift roles for alleged embezzlement of charity donations within the family and a protest note to the Italian Government against an alleged unacceptable risk of fraud on identities of family members of male-female marriages need of union
Lust is not love and pride is not love.
Aquinas~ "Love is wishing the good of other as other." Love does not require reciprocation.
I think what he means is the possibility of conscious reciprocation. Meaning it has the possibility of being understood and accepted for what it is, and the possibility of being returned.
It can and must be covenant, non-presumed.
Thanks for mentioning the "Catholic school pride flag" epidemic. I went to a Catholic elementary school for nine years, and am just now beginning to see how "Catholic" schools really need to up their game. AKA: stop trying to be public schools and practicing what they preach.
Not sure where youre from, but in Canada most Catholic schools are funded by the province, there are some private, but I will only refer to the public funded schools. Its super easy for politicians to score brownie points by going after them and encroach on Catholic beliefs. They implicitly threaten Catholic Schools' funding when they do this. Also schools here cant only hire Catholics who follow Catholic values. Secularism is rampant in Catholic schools.
@@Tttb95 That sounds horrible. My school was in California... So yeah I think that speaks for itself :(
@YAJUN YUAN which catholic is saying the gospels were written by someone else? The authors names are literally on the book. Unless youre getting confused with those who translated from its original languages. Because there are issues there
@YAJUN YUAN Brown had many fringe views and his argument relied solely on Scripture, which is not what the Church teaches. Scripture AND Tradition are important and valid.
So its no surprise really that when one looks at one and excludes the other, they dont get the whole picture. And if I recall, Brown never made any definitive statements he posed theories.
" 'Catholic' schools" "trying to be public schools" is consequentialism duopsony in utilitarian ethics. It follows from the family not requiring from these helpers of the family respect for what they consider to be their rights and simultaneously these helpers of the family not making the family aware of its identity and its role.
"love is love"
My response: "love isn't sex"
I believe in uncertainty that love includes sex that is keeping or allowing of covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of thinking procreation helper role gift within the family and having faith in meeting family members' identities need for union
@@oliverclark5604 what? You "believe in uncertainty that love includes sex"? Friendship is a form of love. So is giving to the poor. Neither of those include sex. We aren't just talking about marital love here.
@@realmless4193 Much of the comment is about sexual matters or issues. I chose to comment on the sexual matters or issues. C.S. Lewis in his "The Four Loves" has "Friendship" as one. Lewis, I believe as defined as in uncertainty, would have "giving to the poor" as "Caritas", the highest do-ing or be-ing of love.
@@oliverclark5604 they're trying to say "love is love" and they convey a message by attaching different meanings to both ends of the word. I am just making the meaning of the slogan explicit and saying it is wrong.
@@realmless4193 I put it: love is and does love as inseparable and qualitatively equal. "Higher vocation" of roman catholic consecrated celibates to male female marriage as taught by the roman catholic church (TTMHS, PCF, 1995, 35) is separated and qualitatively unequal. Who is setting a bad example? Who and or what caused this church role group to teach this and why? Is the greed of family members the cause? Is this greed for insurance and tax concessions?
The short bit on "pleasure for the sake of pleasure" is interesting. It makes me think about my own recreational activities. If I play sports for fun, I might gain better health. If I go out binge drinking with friends or do drugs, I'll suffer harm in the long run. Perhaps we shouldn't engage in activity for the sake of pleasure but for good, measuring our actions based on their consequences.
I believe in uncertainty that that is the difference between 'want' and 'will'
Pride is one of the deadly sins.
Love is not love. You do not love your child as you love your spouse, or your dad/mom the same as your spouse, your bestie the same as your child, cheesecake the same as your kid, and on and on. people just sound completely ridiculous.
But what is pride, as it pertains to sin?
Is civic pride sinful?
Is pride in one's country sinful?
Pride in one's achievements, or one's work?
Pride in you children, your spouse, or your family?
Is there a difference between these and pride in one's self?
@@trikebeatstrexnodiff What do you mean by "support them". I love LGBT people and I know God loves them, that's why I want them to change their ways and not stay the same. There's nothing supporting about letting people stay in sin.
As a second note, Love isn't in a grade. Different types of love don't mean different measures of love.
I love cheesecake is just an expression on how much you like cheesecake. I love you to a human such as a child and a spouse are the same. Spouses express that love in a different way aka giving of self to the other through intercourse. A mother might Express her love through giving herself to the child via hard work to provide for the child. Just my 2 cents...
Bingo.
The catholic doctrine states just that, people who feel attract to the same sex should stay in state of chastity. Now when we talk about chastity we also refers to the mind and thoughts not just physical.
I will comment in something you said before " I love all LG..people" and to say that shows that you don't see them as people you see them as a group who is cool to support. I'm not refer to me as " and heterosexual " when I meet somebody, I see the problem of postmodern society is the labels and identities, but in a context of God relationship with us humans that category doesn't exist, we are humans first, and humans are in some ways complex and sinful because we are weak, but we should never being allowed to be put in a sex category because that is minimizing HS and limiting us, after all we don't need sex to live, human race needs to create more humans or we will be extent, but as individuals we need water, food , sleep mainly, sex is very far away or should in our priorities. Of course in the hiperd sexualized American society that looks like an impossible, but it is not. Control of our basics instincts if what give us freedom, not the opposite, it was give us strength, no the opposite. There's an agenda behind the sexual revolution if the 60 but that is another topic.
Think that the most of the social problems that the world face today it would be fixed by chastity if the soul, body and mind.
"Love is willing the good of the other." That's the credo I live by.
Good luck with having romantic relationship
@@karolkuter5194 whats wrong with his definition of love?
@@dylpickle7454 not romantic
@@dylpickle7454 his definition is right, but its like defining music as series of air vibrations
@@karolkuter5194 That's because you are confusing sexual attraction with love. That is understandable, because our society has been confusing the two for a thousand years. They are nonetheless different.
One wonders why parish priests, bishops, cardinals and even popes can't speak like an unassuming, faithful layman. Further, there's no "hate", no loathing ad advertised by the narrative writers. Just a reasoned argument for Love's ultimate and time-honored definition. Well done Mr Holdsworth.
As Christians, we don't believe that "love is love". We believe that "God is Love".
It's strange to me, that this so-called sophisticated time, in which we live in, doesn't seem to understand what natural and normal love is.
@Richard Fox if same sex love was natural then it would produce children naturally. After all words like homosexual or heterosexual or asexual have been used scientifically not to define attraction, but to define how offspring are made. For example an asexual plant doesn’t lack attraction to others because of it sexuality (but because it’s a plant). An asexual plant is called asexual because that’s how it creates offspring.
@Richard Fox why is that wrong
@Richard Fox why is beating up people in the street morally wrong?
@@thehungarywaffleinc.7775 That's a good point, because moral relativism is rampant and confusing, because people choose this way of thinking, in order to be so-called "special," than everyone else.
@Richard Fox why do those standards matter?
This might be your best video, in a long list of other fantastic, carefully considered and thought provoking videos.
I don't really get the point. Every slogan is inherently narrow and weak, but "love is love" comes in a certain context and meas something specific. It meas: the love of a gay couple is equal to the love present in a straight couple. It's love. It is, in fact "willing the good of another", not a different thing. Words are slogan, every single word reduces the complexity of things and concepts to its minimal significant form.
I just talked with an old friend I hadn’t heard from in years. Her & her husband & kids were very Catholic. Now she says they’ve quit practicing because “the Church doesn’t stand for anything anymore.”
That sounds really unfortunate. We are the church. It won't change by not practicing. We need to be there once these trends die--with the people who advocate them if that is what it takes. The people who hold these views aren't exactly practicing either.
Sad that they have given up and not willing to fight the good fight. Hopelessness can lead people into darkness.
Those who endure until the end are saved. Please remind them. Quitting right before you reach the finish line when you were winning is such a waste of previous time spent.
A role cannot "stand". I believe some honest very few in this role, including Pope Francis, are realising this and ceasing purporting presuming to be an identity that can "stand"
@YAJUN YUAN Are Catholic schools teaching the story of Genesis is a myth? I heard it myself in RCIA so I believe this could be true. That's one more reason why I don't trust this pope. How could he allow this?
You cannot define a word by merely repeating it
People need to have the courage to ask the questions “what is a woman” and “what is love”?
A woman is a woman. And love is love. Duh!
baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more
Or on this issue, what is marriage?
@@BrewMeister27 marriage is when tax cuts
🤮 the responses to this from worldly people
Yes. Love seeks the highest and best good for someone.
Like obay God.
Rebellion means pain ,delution and death.
“I can’t say what a women is, I am not a biologist.” THE FIRST VICTIM IS THE TRUTH.
adult female human
"What is truth", Pilate is reported replying to Christ at his trial before Pilate. I believe in uncertainty that "truth" is the keeping or allowing of covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of justice and mercy. This keeping or allowing is presently evident in Pope Francis' authorisation simultaneously in justice and mercy on or just after 10 June 2021 of his Vatican State Secretariat of State's criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others for embezzlement of charity donations which trial is continuing presently and protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of fraud on the keeping of union of identities in male-female marriages by the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian Parliament (defeated in early November 2021) in both cases for not keeping or allowing this covenant, non-presumed reciprocity
Did he say in same sex relationships there is no companionship? If i got that right, then that is fundamentally wrong, it has been proven that the companionship and even emotional intimacy is far more stronger among the same sex than in the others, and it is NOT related to sexual activities.
No he didn't say that. Companionship can be found in many relationships and is generally a good, his argument is that it is the sexual component of the same sex relationship that is the problem, not the care companionship part.
If the companionship is not related to sex, that's called being friends.
@@hamie7624 Agreed. It is perfectly normal for one to have friends of the same sex.
Love is willing the good of another, so we do not actually love if we love someone “just the way they are” we are forgetting the good we need to will for them. None of us are so good that we do not need more good. Love is not sex, marital love includes sex, if it is only sex there is no love.
love as the keeping of the inseparability and qualitative equality of justice and mercy, as kept by Pope Francis, includes sex that is covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of procreation role process gift within the family and progress in meeting need of identities of family members for union.
That ending was so true. I like your calm way of presenting .
Love is feeding the poor and poor mean all sort of attributes. If its the difficult to defined love then one does not know what love is.
This is a masterclass in logic. Aristotle would be proud.
Love is for like: "You take someone part of yourself. And when you are willing to give something to someone. You will like to give, and don't ask anything back." now I will also thx to Brian take this to. "You want to do something good to another." Love this topic ❣️
It is almost as if Love is being used as a weapon. I desperately hope I am wrong.
Unfortunately, you are right
As such, it is our duty to do otherwise
Love is used as a weapon.
Compassion too...
Trust in God, this is of most evill making but he'll do something good with it
The equating of "love" with sex in our modern society is a good display of how profoundly sick our society has become. In this day and age, it's become impossible for two people of the same sex to have a deep love for one another, willing to do anything, even laying down their life for the other, feeling intense joy when they do something great or push beyond their limitations, and grieving deeply when you lose them, without people saying, "Oh, those two are gay." How myopic our society's view of the concept of love is. It makes my head shudder uncontrollably.
Thank you for this video!!! God bless you and your family!!!
I always say “love is sacrifice” “Love is willing the good of others.” Is even better… great job Catholic Church.
GOD IS LOVE .
i really appreciate this video! it's well paced and clear. thank you :)
They are confusing Agape Love with Lust.
The saying contains meaning by implication. It's meant to convey the sense that love is not a choice as is the case with homosexuality in this context.
Good point
its not a sin to be gay
@@taylorrxd that’s not what this persons saying
@@taylorrxd It is if being gay includes acting on it without any remorse or repentance. In Christ, Andrew
@@Ezekiel336-16 it’s not “acting out” lmfao. it’s called love you should try it some time
Rephrased “ love is the unselfish embracing of all that is good for another”.
The minute I heard “what is a coherent definition of love” the first thing that came to mind immediately was 1 Corinthians 13.
@Richard Fox "it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right."
The discussion here essentially about what is wrong and what is right and who gets to determine that.
We say God decides that so we follow what God has commanded and willed.
@Richard Fox you’re confusing specific commandments and records of societal activities. Plenty of things are documented in the Bible that are clearly wrong, that doesn’t mean they’re advocated.
@Richard Fox watch this video to hopefully clear confusion about the whole stoning disobedient children at the city gates thing in the bible ruclips.net/video/b7XHqQ3J6eg/видео.html
@Richard Fox
There is a difference between Moral laws, Ceremonial, and Civil laws.
@Richard Fox Ugh, just another unbeliever twisting God’s word for their own narrative. I’m so tired of this
Lust is NOT love... in fact its actually about our self and not another. But lust always seems to be confused with love that actually gives up what we want for the benefit of others.
Your point is truly a very tiny, tiny point. if you are HONEST you find that the human race would have died out eons ago without at least some element of which in my estimation is all perfectly normal, natural, healthy and good! 99.99% of men I would posit like, enjoy and celebrate the sexual aspect of their lives at least in the sense of enjoying it and being grateful for it! I think you will find that for most men both love and lust are all mixed up together and are pretty indivisible. Of course pure unadulterated lust without love in a physical union is actually something quite disgusting and really quite obscene!
So spot on!
Oh oh.... here we go
Always informative and insightful Brian. Well said and thank you
Thank you very much for a very thoughtful and informative video!
Ok, quite a bit said there. Firstly we shouldnt assume what sexual practices people engage in regardless of their orientation. It's their business anyway. Secondly, responsible consenting adults engaged in monogamous intimate relationships are out of sight and harming no-one, so again- nobody's business. The Catholic position should be neither to encourage or discourage but to instruct on genuine responsibility in our relationships with each other. Condemnation will only alienate good people. Be aware of personal boundaries.
You get it, I don't know why so many Catholics, even ones higher up in the Church don't.
Unfortunately many higher ups in the Church are homosexual themselves.
@@joan8862 I think its helpful to remember that having same sex attraction is not a sin. But acting on it, and promoting it is. You can be attracted to the same sex or gender dysmorphic and be a good Catholic.
@@Tttb95 Right. You can't act on it and we must seek God's grace to live with our weaknesses and live chastely. We are all called to chastity.
@@Tttb95 "Catholic" is a do-ing role neither good nor bad. Family member be-ing identity can be good or bad in its conduct. The groomed same sex attraction is to purporting presuming inversion of do-ing role and be-ing identity. How do we help a person to submit to correction; that is, healing, of this groomed attempted inversion?
@@joan8862 If the family, if it "can and must" (CL, 40), requires of the homosexual person their respect for what they consider to be their rights; that would include not been born or drawn into gender dysmorphia, then simultaneously this person has exercised their right "to make the family aware of its identity ... and its role ..." (Pope St John Paul 11's exhortation CL, 1988, n.40)
An appreciative and responsive commitment to the other's flourishing.
Great video Brian!
An excellent monologue on the subject. Coherent and consistent with biblical principles. The comments concerning Catholic school education, couldn't be more accurate.
Brian explained the three different types of Love as taught theologically by the Apostle Paul. 1. Eros, 2. Philos and 3. Agape
Good point Brian! When slogans are used to justify arguments, truth is the first victim. The more fundamental problem is that, when emotionally or irrationally based positions or ideologies take precedence over the truth, then truth, politically speaking, doesn't matter.
The temptation for those who premise their arguments on truth is to continue to assume that it actually matters in terms of not only public discourse with tyrants of irrational ideologies, but more importantly in terms of public policy by way of public pressure or actual legislation. That's where the rubber hits the road, because that's when public penalties, sanctions, and soft persecution begins.
Then we who subscribe to truth and logic based thereupon cry the blues when, really, what we should be doing is considering strategy in the spiritual combat, recognising and realising that the conflict has shifted from reasoned and respectable discourse to one simply of force.
In other words, it's one thing to redirect a stranger from entering your house. It's another thing to bolt the door to keep a burglar from breaking into your house. The first is done with reasoned communication. The other accepts that the relationship is reduced to applying strategy to survive the tyrant.
Yes, society is that far gone, because many have become enslaved to selfishness and ego.
Agreed: It's incumbent upon the Love-is-love theorists to prove that they are right. In other words, the claimant bears the burden or proof. So, let them do so without gravitating automatically into a defensive position and shifting unto oneself the burden of proof.
Yes, there are Catholic hijackers in schools, but then they are easily duped into becoming puppets. Sadly, it seems that ecclesiastical authorities don't exercise their shepherding authority to set clear boundaries.
Thank you for your words of truth. As a person who has been struggling with SSA his entire life as a nonbeliever - and finally found liberation through the love of Our Lord Jesus Christ - I found this video particularly compelling.
I wish I could spend the time left for me on this earth to warn off people against sin.
Great assessment. Well done. I think the challenge with preaching the truth over lies is that truth needs a 17 minute speech while a lie is conveyed in a brief (shallow) slogan.
You gave me a thought! Seems like the best response to the meaningless 'love is love' cliche would be to say 'sin is also sin'! In Christ, Andrew
I believe in my uncertainty that it may be that you "can and must" (Pope St John Paul 2, CL, 1988, 40) exercise the cardinal virtue of "Prudence" (CCC 1806) against purporting presuming "a thought" can be given.
I believe in my uncertainty that "a thought" as a procreation role gift within the family in Christ and a family member be-ing in need of union of family members of valid and proper male female marriages' identities is such that only meeting this need can be 'given' as in "gave".
In my male-female marriage vows in God, Oliver
Thank you,
Your thought processes are expressed in a clean liner way that is easy for the listener to understand. I appreciate your simple break down of love and its application towards a homosexual relationship. Nice video. You speak with conviction for the truth regardless of whether or not it is in line with mainstream ideology. God bless you for that.
My Catholic school was similar in this way, however it embraces homosexual relationships because the religious order connected to it also actively embraced it. How so we reconcile religious communities teaching and promoting homosexuality as Catholicism?
You can’t reconcile it, the school and the religious order are in severe error and causing scandal. Worst, they are leading innocent children into sinful ideologies. Better a millstone around the neck… We can only pray and advocate for their conversion to truth.
I believe in uncertainty that this reconciliation is not possible. What is possible is simultaneous by helper of the family persons in procreation gift roles making the family aware of its identity and role and by the family requiring from all respect for what helpers of the family consider to be their rights.
The attempt at this reconciliation follows vulnerable members of families not requiring this respect and vulnerable helpers of the family not making this awareness since in both cases as emotionally and or psychologically vulnerable groomed by "familyist" family members for their families' economic advantage of tax and insurance with occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, non-economic status inducements of "higher vocation" (Pope St John Paul 11's Council for the Family 'teaching' document: "The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality: Guidelines for Education Within the Family", PCF, 1995, 35). Family members in their reason thinking or having faith feeling that they have this "higher [non-economic] vocation" whether as helper of families' consecrated celibates in the roman catholic role group (e.g. as teachers in catholic schools) or as helper of families' citizens in society (e.g. a scout group) claim tax exemption as charities and low insurance cost since "higher vocations" that reduce the fees they charge families for their services.
Cease treating "Catholicism" as a be-ing identity when it is a do-ing role.
Is there a particular reason why sex is an important to loving relationships in the Catholic mindset (or just in general)? I'm not Catholic, so I need some understanding here. I've been in a relationship with my partner for 6 years now, and honestly haven't felt the need to have sex with them often. Love between partners can exist and flourish with or without sex in my personal opinion. And before any of you say so, our relationship is definitely more than a friendship, but we are friends and have a strong friendship and have grown together over the years. I would hopefully love to spend the rest of my life with my partner and possibly start a family with them one day. But as of right now, I am fine with simply speaking words of love, showing my love through actions, trying to do right by them, etc.
Another thing, I think there are some that are possibly taking the "love is love" slogan out of context, or simply thinking too long and hard about it or trying to misconstrue it for something it is not. It is a slogan, it is meant to be short and sweet, easily identifiable, and easy to catch on. There's no ulterior motive behind it, "love is love" is about how LGBTQ folks experience the capacity of love just the same as straight and cisgender folks do despite the whole of society's unwillingness to believe so and to look down and think that there is something inherently debase about these relationships. LGBTQ folks are also not living by an ideology, they are living as themselves. Let me ask you, are you as a straight person (assuming you the reader are straight) living by an ideology because of your straightness?
Okay, my refutation is squarely aimed at the idea that the only real definition of Love is to will the good of other people. If you didn't mean it quite as literally as all that, then please ignore.
I disagree that the definition of Love is simply willing the good of another. I can (and should) will the good of people I dislike, just as much as I will the good of those I like. But, for instance, I don't think anyone's girlfriend/wife would be delighted to hear their partner loves them in the same way, to the same degree, as their partner loves his least-favourite people! There must be a reason for that. But if we claim that there is only one kind of true love, that all other ideas of it are untrue, then there should be no issue there.
And if Love is just willing the good of others, surely we must will everyone the same degree of goodness and, therefore- going by that definition of love- we wouldn't be allowed any 'especial' loving relationships, (as I and many people like to believe we have in romantic relationships) since it would be a moral imperative to love ALL equally. That seems... a shame. Say what you will but I think there's something wonderful about the idea of 'soul mates'.
What of appreciative love? Eros and agape are not the same, although they can and do relate. I don't see how a beatific vision would ever be possible if appreciative love (which is exactly what Eros is, at its best) isn't really a true definition of love at all. How then would we ever celebrate or glorify? I DO agree that love isn't just an emotion. But surely appreciative love isn't just a feeling, either? I can see, quite rationally, how my favourite people have numerous good qualities- everything from physical beauty to kindness- and this can be beheld quite logically without it having to be witnessed via an emotional state.
Furthermore, surely 'good' means 'that which is most lovable'? So if love is JUST to will the good of others, when you do this for them, you're ultimately willing that they too shall will the good for others (if that is the definition of what goodness is in its entirety, this is the fate you've just willed for them). But if there's no appreciative love, if love is just charity and has no other attributes like enjoyment or approval, then what, in this endless merry-go-round of giving, is actually being gifted? It's pass-the-parcel, but nobody actually receives anything. So I'm not saying agape/charity is unimportant or not a central part of what love is... but I certainly wouldn't claim it IS the very definition of all of what Love is. An important part, yes but clearly not the full picture.
I think when people say 'love is love', they mean that 'to romantically appreciate the good in people is itself a good thing, and so why judge it?' You might disagree with that. But I don't believe that it's a slogan brought out by people wishing to duck an intellectual exchange of ideas! Not sure how many people, believers, catholic, atheist or otherwise, EVER really engage in that sort of debate these days. And yes, it's a simplistic slogan. But so are many things the laymen of the Church say in relation to their faith. 'God is Love' is often said by people who have never really explored in depth what that means.
Yes, as you can guess, I'm pro- LGBTQ rights. Heterosexual and theist though I am. But, even though you disagree with that stance, I hope my argument here makes sense to you and I commend you for articulating your perspective.
Sorry for going on a bit. I'm incapable of writing anything short.
This was so well done, thanks for the truth.
Great content.
One way to practically respond to that slogan is "Well, that's obvious, but what *brand* of love are you talking about? They have different roles. For instance, ever try eating rose bread? Not that nutritious, but they do make lovely valentine's day gifts- the flowers, I mean." or something like that. Basically turn it all around on them and make them either define what they mean or realize how ridiculous their claim is, and how utterly pointless such a claim really is.
It seems the "love is love" meme is simply to make any form of attraction and affection equally, and therefore completely, valid. "Love is good....this is love...therefore this is good." It is wildly simplistic reasoning. What of adulterous love? A person may indeed love that other person, and the connection can be more than just sexual, but does it lead to abandonment of another, and / or the betrayal of another persons wife or husband and children? Is that OK because "love is love"? What of polygamy? "Love is Love"? Incest? "love is love"?
To declare "all is good, because all is love" is not an argument at all. It is only a demand that one not examine the matter further, suspend all discernment, and conform.
Dude, awesome video.
"Society isn't that far gone"? Yes, it is. "Love is love" has since the 60s applied to pedophiles and sexual predators.
"Is love a crime?" was a question asked by Gabriel Matzneff in 1976 in the newspaper Le Monde (the French equivalent to the NYT). Matzneff is an author who won literary prizes, and his books all deal with the same subject matter : his "loving" relationships with children.
This question appeared as an open letter in which he argued that "love" has no age limit. It was signed by famous intellectuals and politicians, like Sartre or De Beauvoir.
Speaking of De Beauvoir, before she became known as a famous "feminist" and "intellectual", she had been kicked out of the French school system because she had been identified as a groomer, was sleeping with students and then sent them off to Sartre. Schools in France are still named after both them.
Today, in North America, NAMBLA has become a joke, but people should look into the MAPs movement, a notable successor, not afraid to proclaim their "love" and attraction for the youngest.
To them "love is love".
Just watch for push to lower the age of consent.
Inevitable.
Thanks for the warning, Nerd Analog
@@hobbiton64 What priests have a reputation for is in the main caused by "familyist" family persons grooming them with a non-economic status inducement for these familyists' families economic tax and insurance advantages. No wonder so used these priests act out including by sexual abuse.
Valid points. Thank You! From Orthodox Christian +
You can reply ironically to 'Love is love': Lust is love
Your analogy of the farm fields is helpful to me. I'll borrow it in future debates.
"Love is love" is a tautology, which is a logical fallacy.
English is deficient in distinguishing various kinds of love.
The Japanese word for the love between husband and wife is "ai," pronounced like English,"I." It means "working in harmony towards the common goal [the continuation and well-being of the family]."
As always, 3 Aves for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻
Been reading Pope JP II's book "Love and Responsibility". Very much ties into what you spoke of. I recommend it to anyone for helping them with their relationships/marriage!
Love is the bond that allows distinct persons to stay distinct from each other while share an essential unity in the relationship between those distinct persons, and that is only achieved by self sacrifice, willing the good of the other, that's how the Most Holy Trinity is essentially, that's why we say God is Love, because his very being is that perfect self sacrificial love between persons that will the good of the other person, and that allows a loving relationship that unites those distinct persons essentially.
What's up Brian. Seeing as the pride flag like any symbol has many meanings, can there be a Catholic meaning for the flag? Is it possible, with the authority the Church has, even over symbols, that flying the flag could be good with a certain meaning, like "welcoming all persons"? If not, could you use the sources of morality given in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to prove that flying the pride flag is necessarily morally evil?
The problem with saying "by flying the pride flag, we mean that we welcome all persons" is that that meaning is not what the pride flag is meant to convey, so it would just make those saying it look like fools.
Excellent ~ ❤️🙏🏻🌹
Love is sacrifice.
Love is God, and without him, we can only sin and destroy.
In my opinion Love is forgiving your child. Love is not forgiving your child only if they accept your transactional offer for forgiveness.
Love is most certainly not punishing your child and then punishing every other child ever born because of what your child did
"Love is Love" is a tautology. If love itself isn't defined with certain qualifications and parameters, then the phrase is absolutely meaningless.
That is as quality and quantity having their inseparability and qualitative equality kept or allowed in justice and mercy as Pope Francis is and did on 10 June 2021 or just after simultaneously in the criminal case of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others for not keeping or allowing "does" if as alleged embezzlement of helper of the family in their "doing" roles procreation gift charity donations within the family, that is role, and the protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of not keeping or allowing "is", that is, identity need of union of family members of male female marriages by the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian Parliament
My pastor said, back in the Garden of Eden it says, "God made Adam a suitable partner" & how that was fulfilled when Paul said, "Love your spouse as Christ loved the church" so if that's the case maybe gay marriage wouldn't be a sin...
I would also like to point out that not everything can be determined by using analyzed statistical data something's have to be personally experienced.
Good discussion though Brian! 😎 These are the discussions we should be having rather than ones out of scornful arrogance!
You don’t have to like what you ought to do. Ideally, your feelings should support the good of the other, whether they recognize that good or not. It’s all part of the spiritual battle.
Syllogisms, truisms, and tautologies. Oh the sophistication and sophistry of modernity
or of a twisted tradition of "higher vocation" from an opinion not given by God of St Paul reported at 1Cor7:25-34 that Pope Francis has taken in his identity a stand against from 19 March 2013, Feast of St Joseph, in plain language by keeping the inseparability and qualitative equality of his identity as a valid and proper member of a family of valid and proper marriage in Christ as a consecrated celibate roman catholic Jesuit Order religious priest and his role as a helper of the family.
9.54 it offers romantic companionship wich is different that say a coworker or a friend
Thank you for covering an umbrella of issues on this video. I love your rational explanations and praying for you and your family. Have you read Trent Horn's "Made This Way" book? It discusses what the Catholic church and Natural law teaches about current sexual issues and has sections on how to talk to kids and teens about them when confronted with them.
I saw an exhibit that was a room with electronic boards that flashed aphorisms. There were dozens of them. It was interesting because it implied meaning. There was little meaning except for me.
3:24 In other words, it's a tautology that lacks explanation
They say Thomas Moore and John Fisher were only two of a handful of people that kept the Faith, while Henry the Eighth was going mad. Here we are 400 + years later.
Henry VIII wasn't going mad, but he would have been terribly surprised by the state of the Church of his kingdom even 100 years after his death, let alone today. However much the Church might fall short of her mission, we definitely do not have sexually active, homosexual bishops.
I believe in the uncertainty of belief that Moore and Fisher "kept" in uncertainty of belief covenant, non-presumed reciprocity of thinking and having faith
Honestly, I wish people would catch on already.
The first thing to do is define what is love.
I love strawberry cheesecake but I don't go to bed with it.
Not anymore.
Yes!!!
Brian, your mistake is assuming people want to live by coherent and reasonable principles. Many people enjoy the freedom of picking a stance on each individual moral issue without regard for the logical implications of each choice, like a pro-life person that supports IVF. Principles pose a threat to this freedom and may require someone to take a stance they don't like.
Yes! And it's almost pointless to argue with people like this because they do not care if their arguments do not follow logical reasoning. They actually get really excited when you point this out, as if they celebrating their own lunacy!
You people throw strawmans like you're guarding a cornfield
What is love? Baby don't hurt me... don't hurt me...
Love does love as well as is love. Keeping or allowing this inseparability and qualitative equality of doing and being as this love is an exercise of the cardinal virtue of prudence. "Prudence ... guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure" (CCC. 1806), including in guiding courage. A rule guiding exercise of courage is proportionality of ends to means and of good to be achieved to risk taken in this achieving. Measure in international economics became possible from the establishment of the League of Nations after WW1 when population being and food supplies doing in the developing countries were found to have "just about paripassu rate of growth".
How does pope allow gay flag to fly from pole at catholic school
school board trustees make the decision after enough arm twisting by education ministry. Pope could preach and remind us. But even catholics want to get re-invited to cocktail parties.
You explained the church is teaching beautifully. I have long understood why homosexual sexual relationships are wrong. And perhaps fortunately, I have not had to argue my position with a non-Catholic. However, if I Ever had to argue my position with a non-Catholic, and I suspect that the best I could do is explain why Catholics believe as they believe. I doubt my argument could ever gain traction with non-Catholics. That is because the large majority of even protestants do not value the procreative role of marriage. While they do believe in reserving sexual relations for the institution of marriage, they do not always and sometimes never believe the purpose of marriage is to procreate. What I would really love to hear discussed is how we as Catholics are to express our love to the LGBTQ community. Currently I just treat my LGBTQ friends with his much love and friendship as anyone else. When I teach my children on how to interact, I just remind them that these are also children of God and we must act with love and kindness. But what are Catholics supposed to do in situations like a gay Wedding? I get that I am not making too much sense here.
Every Catholic school board members should listen to this …. Excellent points
when they say "love is love" what they actually mean is "lust is lust" don't let them fool you
When I say "love is love" I mean "love is love", I don't mean anything else.
@@finnlewis2528 what??
Couldn't agree more, people often confuse love for lust, a very twisted world we're living in.
@@jamestempleton553 🤥🤥
@@AnarchoAngel I believe in uncertainty that I can and must add after "is" "and does" love in mercy and justice as Pope Francis on or just after 10 June 2021 is and does in the criminal case of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others for not keeping or allowing "does", that is role, and the protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of not keeping or allowing "is", that is identity
Love is not love…there is real love…which is unconditional love
And there is the other kind of love ….conditional love….or fake love
Yes, "real presence" love in the keeping or allowing of the inseparability and qualitative equality; that is, covenant, non-presumed reciprocity, of valid and proper eucharist do-ing role and valid and proper marriage be-ing identities.
For example, what I believe in my uncertainty what Pope Francis was and did in mercy and justice on or just after 10 June 2021 in his simultaneous authorisations with an absolute power of authorisation of his Vatican State Secretariat of State's criminal indictments of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others on allegations of embezzlement in their procreation helper of the family ensuring roles within the family of tax exempt charity donations and protest note to the Italian Government against an unacceptable risk of fraud on insuring identities of family members of valid and proper male female marriages in need of union by the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian State Parliament.
I am grateful for the church and her teachings. Grateful for the correction. even with him regular relationships you find if there is no true commitment to Will the good that it does not work. as a young person, and then a little bit later into adulthood, and during all of this craziness, I once fell into this belief. oddly enough though in 2013 I worried about the church and how these type of beliefs would affect specifically the Catholic Church. I am sad at what I see.
And LOVE, like all things good, has a structure and form that demand to be respected.
@BVale It has do-ing as structure and be-ing as form. Respect is due for the keeping of the inseparability and qualitative equality of this do-ing structure and be-ing form.
Which is why there used to be different categories of love. Like agape, eros, etc.
I am shocked that a Catholic school would put up such a flag, let alone that there may a trend toward such which is widespread. I wondered where Brian found the photo, but according to other comments, it may not be entirely rare. Something wrong here...!
Very interesting argument! If the same-sex response is "we can have children in the same accepted ways that infertile couples do (invitro fertilization, surrogacy)", how do you distinguish this from the unique good resulting from male-female marriages?
It has to do with your definition of love as working for the good of the other, and what this good would be uniquely defined as in a sexual context: children etc. Given the field metaphor, they would be working towards the same harvest the land is created for, but using extra fertilizer. Thoughts?
If by "the unique good resulting from male-female marriages", we mean the ability to conceive, both in-vitro fertilisation separate the act of procreation from the act of sexual union. Sure, a heterosexual man could masturbate, fertilise his wife's eggs in a test tube, and then have them placed inside her, or a pair of gay men can hire a woman to bear one the child of one of them, or two women could acquire semen from another man, but none of those are the same as doing "the real thing"
The Saintmaker doesn't sell to Canada.