I’m reading Ulysses right now, as my first foray into the works of James Joyce, and though difficult, it’s not unreadable at all. I’m actually enjoying it greatly. I’ve also been listening to a bunch of lectures by Jospeh Campbell on Joyce and Thomas Mann, which are absolutely fascinating, and leaving an indelible impression on me.
Three questions: 1. Can you remind me of the name of the video when you defended the ability of a reviewer to evaluate a book as a refutation of the idea that book reviewing is a matter of taste. I tried to find it by searching through your video library and well . . . 2. How do you feel about modern art -- Abstract Expressionism etc.? 3. You really don't think any of the stories in _Dubliners_ are good? I agree with you about Dos Passos.
Hi Steve. I love your videos but I cannot agree with this one. It's rather like saying Picasso was a bad artist because he painted women with two eyes on one side of the face. And furthermore that he did this because he was too cowardly to compete with the chocolate box artists who were far superior. It seems to miss the point.
Hah! Well, it's perfectly OK to disagree, since we're all friends here! But keep in mind: I do, in fact, say that Picasso was a bad artist, and one of the reasons I say that is, in fact, because he drew people with two eyes on one side of the face. I'd hardly call Leonardo, Corot, Holbein, Sargent & Co "chocolate box artists," for instance.
Calling Ulysses unreadable is a cop-out - an admission of defeat and nothing more. It's one of the wisest, funniest, most beautifully-written books in the world, and if you enjoy Homer, Dante and Shakespeare, you are right in the heart of its target audience.
We should avoid calling challenging pursuits pretentious. "The struggle is great, the task divine - to gain mastery, freedom, happiness and tranquillity"- Epictetus. Not that everyone must slog through Ulysses (though I would argue that reading that book, or any Joyce save for FW, isn't a slog), but people, young people especially, should be encouraged to leave their comfort zone not dissuaded from it because the task they wish to take on isn't 'necessary.' In general, we should probably cease discouraging reading of any kind, given the state that society is in right now.
@@jonahsavage4492 idk, i just think its fun to read and it touches a lot of different topics that are interesting and how they in a sense play into the characters developments as well. Its very satirical in that way and experimental too, but it does have a lot of content still, and you will always find something new when visiting it from time to time. You wont get everything from it on a first read, so it rewards you for rereading, and i will admit that i probably wont grasp all there is in the book, but im still just enjoying the ride so i dont see an issue. I think its great.
This exactly captures my (main) problem with Ayn Rand’s novels - yes! I just think I needed to hear it, thank you. Sunk cost fallacy? Who do you think you are, me?
I really enjoyed this critical take on Joyce. If for example, we are able to trick ourselves into believing Yong Man had just been written and released today, and was a strange kind of historical fiction, I think we can more readily appraise it as being messy, and at times just poorly narrated. But it also still manages to hold onto that charm, which perhaps comes in part from it just not being clear to read
I agree about this book, but completely disagree about Ulysses and Dubliners (if you include that). I’ve read Ulysses several times, never in an academic session, and never with one of those horrendous “guides.” I think it’s hilarious, and most of it is easily readable. The long play can be a slog, and I dislike Molly’s chapter. But it has more than its share of rewards. I have been very slowly working my way through Finnegan’s Wake, and if it’s self-indulgent, I’m not sure what he was indulging in. It’s not that hard to read, if you do so aloud in a fake Irish accent. And some of it is beautiful concrete poetry. But if there is any sense in it (besides a few sparkling nuggets) it almost totally eludes me.
Currently plodding through Finnegan's Wake. I am convinced it is an elaborate troll. An epic dick joke. I am most amused. I read it aloud much to the horror and now bemusement (because I have been at it so long) of my family.
I like The Bell Jar and I'm ok with autofiction if it is for one novel and not the same one every time the writer publishes. And I don't get the feeling that Sylvia thought she was writing "the masterpiece and the smartest book in the world" in contrast with Joyce .
@@Nastya-uj9bg Agree with you there. I don't think there's anything wrong with autofiction per se, but if that's the only thing a writer publishes, they should be honest with themselves and call their work memoirs.
Steve, how did you attain the lofty status as the Pope of literature? Do you worry that your supreme powers of excommunication may fail to reach the millions of philistines oblivious to the dangers posed by the armies of dude-bros memorising the works of Jimmy Joyce?
Isn't it a sign of an educated mind to be able to connect one idea with another from a different source? I say this because at the beginning of the video you spoke of something from one book reminding you of something you had read somewhere else. This happens to me all the time.
Yes yes! Association, wonderful!! We grow on the waves of our consciousness.... Ebbs and flows, love it. Levels of growth.... I am no proponent of Joyce- I find him pretentious and obtuse but, still worthy of exploration. He brought something to bear, eh? Happy reading Lillian 😊📖😊
when I saw the title I immediately made myself a cup of tea and prepared for the rant. I started reading this one and Ulysses and then I remembered that I am not student of literature and don't have any pretentious friends and I can read for pleasure.
@@Wicked_Panda Not all of students of literature are pretentious but a lot of them pride themselves with reading "cool genius guys and getting all the references" (for me it is joyce and David Foster Wallace. Every profession has these people. And I do believe a lot of Joyce fans can be that. What is difficult literature? Is odyssey difficult? or the lesser bohemians? Beloved by Tony Morrison? Some people would say yes, some people even think Wolf Hall is difficult - and I loved all these books. If these are difficult for you then I'm ok with difficult as long as my efforts will pay offwith some cool story or characters.
@@saintdonoghue Is it? I don't know. I'm not as perceptive a reader as you, I admit. I have a lot more reading and thinking to do. But reading "Wise Blood" was such a frustrating experience for me. Not as frustrating as my reading of "Portrait" LOL But still.
I had a copy of this book sitting on my shelf for a while. You're assessment of Joyce doesn't make make me eager to get to it anytime soon. I also felt like I was obligated to read Ulysses at some point in the future but maybe I'll just leave it after all.
Dos Passos is woefully neglected, thanks for the mention on him! Joyce feels like Dr. Seuss at 600 pages without illustrations and less sense, hence not much fun! I do enjoy a few of stories in Dubliners, and Joyce’s weird pastiches of different phases of English is an interesting excursion, but any college student who has read a dozen works could do it . . . Totally with you on autobiographical fiction; it has made so much of modern literature dull.
James Joyce was recommended to me by someone whose taste I respected 30-odd years ago. They are no longer on my Xmas card list and haven't been since then. Truly tortuous book and it affected me so much it changed how I approached reading and what I read.
Thank you for not kissing James Joyce’s behind lol He is so over hyped and when you read him. He’s terrible, it’s like he’s trying to prove he’s smarter than you. Yet, he fails to produce anything that shows greatness. Also loved your Canterbury review. Hope you and Frida are healthy Best
for me there r parts of Ullysses showing that Joyce could write. Rest of that i soldiered through. Portrait agree with the vid. seemed completely mediocre or worse, and better to avoid wasting one's time.
Three questions: 1. Can you remind me of the name of the video when you defended the ability of a reviewer to evaluate a book as a refutation of the idea that book reviewing is a matter of taste. I tried to find it by searching through your video library and well . . . 2. How do you feel about modern art -- Abstract Expressionism etc.? 3. You really don't think any of the stories in _Dubliners_ are good? I agree with you about Dos Passos.
I’m reading Ulysses right now, as my first foray into the works of James Joyce, and though difficult, it’s not unreadable at all. I’m actually enjoying it greatly. I’ve also been listening to a bunch of lectures by Jospeh Campbell on Joyce and Thomas Mann, which are absolutely fascinating, and leaving an indelible impression on me.
Three questions:
1. Can you remind me of the name of the video when you defended the ability of a reviewer to evaluate a book as a refutation of the idea that book reviewing is a matter of taste. I tried to find it by searching through your video library and well . . .
2. How do you feel about modern art -- Abstract Expressionism etc.?
3. You really don't think any of the stories in _Dubliners_ are good?
I agree with you about Dos Passos.
Hi Steve. I love your videos but I cannot agree with this one. It's rather like saying Picasso was a bad artist because he painted women with two eyes on one side of the face. And furthermore that he did this because he was too cowardly to compete with the chocolate box artists who were far superior. It seems to miss the point.
Hah! Well, it's perfectly OK to disagree, since we're all friends here! But keep in mind: I do, in fact, say that Picasso was a bad artist, and one of the reasons I say that is, in fact, because he drew people with two eyes on one side of the face. I'd hardly call Leonardo, Corot, Holbein, Sargent & Co "chocolate box artists," for instance.
Calling Ulysses unreadable is a cop-out - an admission of defeat and nothing more. It's one of the wisest, funniest, most beautifully-written books in the world, and if you enjoy Homer, Dante and Shakespeare, you are right in the heart of its target audience.
We should avoid calling challenging pursuits pretentious. "The struggle is great, the task divine - to gain mastery, freedom, happiness and tranquillity"- Epictetus. Not that everyone must slog through Ulysses (though I would argue that reading that book, or any Joyce save for FW, isn't a slog), but people, young people especially, should be encouraged to leave their comfort zone not dissuaded from it because the task they wish to take on isn't 'necessary.' In general, we should probably cease discouraging reading of any kind, given the state that society is in right now.
I would love to start a discussion around this if anyone is listening haha. I don't have many friends that read!
@@jonahsavage4492 idk, i just think its fun to read and it touches a lot of different topics that are interesting and how they in a sense play into the characters developments as well. Its very satirical in that way and experimental too, but it does have a lot of content still, and you will always find something new when visiting it from time to time. You wont get everything from it on a first read, so it rewards you for rereading, and i will admit that i probably wont grasp all there is in the book, but im still just enjoying the ride so i dont see an issue. I think its great.
Ulysses is great…the wake is even better!
I reread my literary shit list every so often to make sure I still hate them 🤣
I appreciate your giving an alternative to the standard orthodoxy!
This exactly captures my (main) problem with Ayn Rand’s novels - yes! I just think I needed to hear it, thank you.
Sunk cost fallacy? Who do you think you are, me?
I can dream, can't I?
Did you also write off Dubliners? You were so longwinded I lost focus.
I really enjoyed this critical take on Joyce. If for example, we are able to trick ourselves into believing Yong Man had just been written and released today, and was a strange kind of historical fiction, I think we can more readily appraise it as being messy, and at times just poorly narrated. But it also still manages to hold onto that charm, which perhaps comes in part from it just not being clear to read
I agree about this book, but completely disagree about Ulysses and Dubliners (if you include that). I’ve read Ulysses several times, never in an academic session, and never with one of those horrendous “guides.” I think it’s hilarious, and most of it is easily readable. The long play can be a slog, and I dislike Molly’s chapter. But it has more than its share of rewards.
I have been very slowly working my way through Finnegan’s Wake, and if it’s self-indulgent, I’m not sure what he was indulging in. It’s not that hard to read, if you do so aloud in a fake Irish accent. And some of it is beautiful concrete poetry. But if there is any sense in it (besides a few sparkling nuggets) it almost totally eludes me.
Currently plodding through Finnegan's Wake. I am convinced it is an elaborate troll. An epic dick joke. I am most amused. I read it aloud much to the horror and now bemusement (because I have been at it so long) of my family.
I agree about what you say about Joyce. I also tried to read Ulysses and also could not get pass the first 15 pages.
The first couple of sections are not difficult at all. What was your issue with it?
The dude bro moniker is tired and not that interesting. But of course young male readers need the guidance of someone who knows better, right?
I find it interesting, hence my continued allusions to it!
Time is Better Spent By Reading Montaigne 👑.
About autofiction, what do you think of The Bell Jar? I read a few years a go and it really loved, unlike this book.
Well, I'm legally not allowed to offer a negative opinion of "The Bell Jar," right? Nobody is. That's just the law!
I like The Bell Jar and I'm ok with autofiction if it is for one novel and not the same one every time the writer publishes. And I don't get the feeling that Sylvia thought she was writing "the masterpiece and the smartest book in the world" in contrast with Joyce .
@@Nastya-uj9bg Agree with you there. I don't think there's anything wrong with autofiction per se, but if that's the only thing a writer publishes, they should be honest with themselves and call their work memoirs.
@@saintdonoghue Be a rebel, Steve!
@@Wicked_Panda :)
I largely agree with your view of Portrait, but I have read Ulysses 3 times and The Wake twice and I think you are completely wrong about those rwo.
I was unable to articulate it as well as you but always thought it deliberately obtuse.
Put the lotion in the basket!
That dog licked your face!
Not before it's a$$ 🕳️
@@ryanthomas7119 Exactly!
Steve, how did you attain the lofty status as the Pope of literature? Do you worry that your supreme powers of excommunication may fail to reach the millions of philistines oblivious to the dangers posed by the armies of dude-bros memorising the works of Jimmy Joyce?
Isn't it a sign of an educated mind to be able to connect one idea with another from a different source? I say this because at the beginning of the video you spoke of something from one book reminding you of something you had read somewhere else. This happens to me all the time.
Yes yes! Association, wonderful!! We grow on the waves of our consciousness.... Ebbs and flows, love it. Levels of growth.... I am no proponent of Joyce- I find him pretentious and obtuse but, still worthy of exploration. He brought something to bear, eh? Happy reading Lillian 😊📖😊
@@EveryoneWhoReadsitMustConverse Happy reading to you Noah!
when I saw the title I immediately made myself a cup of tea and prepared for the rant. I started reading this one and Ulysses and then I remembered that I am not student of literature and don't have any pretentious friends and I can read for pleasure.
Are you equating being a student of literature with being pretentious? And suggesting that reading difficult literature can't be pleasurable?
@@Wicked_Panda Not all of students of literature are pretentious but a lot of them pride themselves with reading "cool genius guys and getting all the references" (for me it is joyce and David Foster Wallace. Every profession has these people. And I do believe a lot of Joyce fans can be that. What is difficult literature? Is odyssey difficult? or the lesser bohemians? Beloved by Tony Morrison? Some people would say yes, some people even think Wolf Hall is difficult - and I loved all these books. If these are difficult for you then I'm ok with difficult as long as my efforts will pay offwith some cool story or characters.
Since Memento Mori seems to be back on RUclips (for livestreams at least), maybe gift him the odious yet gorgeous volume?
Why ruin anybody's day by sending them Joyce?
Joyce is the epitome of literature. He shud be at the top of any standings in litt. ( after Shakespeare, of course!)
I've always heard Dubliners is different and often enjoyable for those who don't like his "masterpieces". Is this not true?
'different' in the sense of being marginally more readable, maybe -
What do you think about Flannery O'Connor, given your aversion to soap-box demagoguery?
Hah! But in Flannery O'Conner, the soap-box demagoguery is KNOWING! It's self-aware! And its author is very much suspicious of it -
@@saintdonoghue Is it? I don't know. I'm not as perceptive a reader as you, I admit. I have a lot more reading and thinking to do. But reading "Wise Blood" was such a frustrating experience for me. Not as frustrating as my reading of "Portrait" LOL But still.
I had a copy of this book sitting on my shelf for a while. You're assessment of Joyce doesn't make make me eager to get to it anytime soon. I also felt like I was obligated to read Ulysses at some point in the future but maybe I'll just leave it after all.
Dos Passos is woefully neglected, thanks for the mention on him!
Joyce feels like Dr. Seuss at 600 pages without illustrations and less sense, hence not much fun! I do enjoy a few of stories in Dubliners, and Joyce’s weird pastiches of different phases of English is an interesting excursion, but any college student who has read a dozen works could do it . . .
Totally with you on autobiographical fiction; it has made so much of modern literature dull.
Steve! Steve! Please stop spreading misinformation to your viewers. Joyce is everything that literature has to offer.
My first exposure to Joyce was Ulysses in college. My last exposure to Joyce was Ulysses in college. I'm still angry about it.
What was your issue? He’s so funny.
James Joyce was recommended to me by someone whose taste I respected 30-odd years ago. They are no longer on my Xmas card list and haven't been since then. Truly tortuous book and it affected me so much it changed how I approached reading and what I read.
Thank you for not kissing James Joyce’s behind lol
He is so over hyped and when you read him. He’s terrible, it’s like he’s trying to prove he’s smarter than you. Yet, he fails to produce anything that shows greatness.
Also loved your Canterbury review. Hope you and Frida are healthy
Best
You were filtered hard, bro.
It hurts to hear you say so Steve. I know your words aren't idle
for me there r parts of Ullysses showing that Joyce could write. Rest of that i soldiered through. Portrait agree with the vid. seemed completely mediocre or worse, and better to avoid wasting one's time.
Three questions:
1. Can you remind me of the name of the video when you defended the ability of a reviewer to evaluate a book as a refutation of the idea that book reviewing is a matter of taste. I tried to find it by searching through your video library and well . . .
2. How do you feel about modern art -- Abstract Expressionism etc.?
3. You really don't think any of the stories in _Dubliners_ are good?
I agree with you about Dos Passos.
Maybe ruclips.net/video/Gd8eHg3aXVI/видео.html