Important note: I messed up the frame data for the airdash, it seems like it's first actionable on frame 18 and not 21. New theories (as of march 18th): It seems like only the "head toss" special is actually automatically activated after a certain time. Bedman? starts smoking before the head detaches, which would be a reasonable visual tell; while in the lightning projectile clip, nothing of the sort happens. In fact, the lightning projectile also has a Deja Vu-like icon appear on activation, which leads to what this special would probably be: something like a move that can only be done when charged with lightning, but that doesn't come out automatically and needs to be manually input. This would explain why it locks Bedman? in an animation, since otherwise it'd be extremely punishing. It consuming lightning charge also makes sense if it's supposed to be an enhanced special.
I think that what u called 6p is actually the start up of the move, and yes is actually punishable but punishing it isn't an answer Cause the exploding head will probably remain on the stage even if u hit bedman, meaning pressing a button will just get u CH
@@firework0097 Well, the move does have an arcing motion going in front and above Bedman?, similar to some other 6Ps (notably like Faust's, but also other characters like XRD Raven). I must also say, it being a special wouldn't explain why the lightning disappears instantly upon the head detaching (and not any other time during the move), and many characters would have options to punish it anyway (for example, Sol could do Bandit Revolver to punish it while getting out of range of the explosion, or any other character could 66BRC with meter), making it an exceptionally bad move in the matchup - which is especially bad if this move comes out automatically, because it would mean Bedman is locked out of doing (whatever triggers it) ever. Also, looking at the animation frame by frame, I really can't see it being part of the same move; it doesn't match very well with the attack it's coming from, which would make little sense if it was a single move... I might still be wrong, and you could totally be right mind you :p but I really can't see it being anything except 6P at this time.
@@SachaDow now what u said is true but 1)we need to see the actual range of that explosion to say for sure if that is punishable by bandit revolver 2) the fact that it is automatic might be absurdly strong cause it means that if bedman is blocking and the head is about to fall u will lose Ur offense for doing nothing wrong. 3) it actually makes sense for the shock effect to stop only after the head falls cause it was actually what was mulfunctioning 4)u might even be right but I don't know, it might make bedman a bad character cause everything he does is too random, and might make him unsafe for doing nothing wrong or even make him to strong for getting free offense by doing nothing
@@firework0097 1) It's true that we technically can't know for sure, but the explosion is quite small (visually). 2) That is very true, it would be very powerful - but, because you can't choose exactly when you activate it (being on a timer) and because you need to first do a specific special to get into "lightning state", the opponent will know in advance what will happen, which balances it out. Especially since if you need to wait X amount of time before the attack comes out, so you would need to predict what kind of situation you will be in later. Also, just like Zato's Eddie or Jack-O's minions for example, it's very possible that if you block, "lightning state" is instantly removed, meaning you can't just "block and have the head attack for you". 3) That's fair I guess 🤔 4) Him being very complex is the point I think, he was always a weirdo and the GGST website gave him a difficulty rating that indicates he's quite hard to use (though the GGST website's difficulty ratings aren't always very good...) so him having some hard-to-control elements make sense to me.
Someone else noticed that the lightning projectile projectile kinda looks like it comes from delilah and has a bit of homing like old task A. They stand too close to be sure but looking at it closely it really doesn't feel like the bed is the one sending out the attack. As for the mechanic itself I think you're right with it being an automatic delayed activation depending on your actions. Maybe after a certain time in lightning mode you automatically get the exploding head(could also vary depending on what normal you last used) after a set amount of time or you can do a special to immediately get a different followup, in this case the lightning projectile.
The automatic tweet its not sure if its 100% real, because they used a similar description for his deja vu mechanic way back in the day, so its either true, or they just put his old description there and his gimmick its something else
That's also definitely a possibility, but from what we can gather in the trailer I couldn't think of another possibility for an unifying way to make the mechanic work with both the lightning projectile *and* the head toss (since head toss happens *during* another move while lightning projectile takes control away from the character), those two being the only "lightning-using" specials we know of.
@@SachaDow i think how it works its that doing a special stores energy and makes you go malfunction mode, and then any special move you do will have an automatic malfunction followup
@@SachaDow its like any move becomes a rekka and your character its forced to do the second followup, because if you see closely, as soon as he finishes the second projectile, he gets that weird electric move, as soon as he lets the whole 6P animation rock, he gets that followup
@@andreadicastro8525 I don't disagree this is a possibility, but the thing is that the 6P into head toss isn't *one after the other*, the head toss happens *during the 6P recovery* and not afterwards 🤔 so to me it kinda means that like, moves can't really "get an automatic followup" if the follow-up happens *during the move* sometimes, and sometimes it's a whole move that locks you in an animation (with the electric projectile)... Honestly though, could go either way, I def can see what you mean
@@SachaDow what i meant about the 6P was that if you were charged up and you did 6P, then 6P would always shoot the head off, if you arent charged up it would just act like a normal 6P, because if its like you say and it can fall off during any move, it would look really weird when you do move like 2P or 5K/2K for example
It's very interesting observations that you made. Thank you for pointing out the lightning which I totally missed. Personally I don't really like the idea of moves automatically activiating, although if that is how it works then I'd assume it works based on context of the current action rather than the initial special move. Pretty much where bedman? is on the screen, jumping attacking, blocking far or close range etc. Otherwise I feel the character would be very restrictive which I don't like.
I agree it'd be quite cumbersome, though I think it's very cool that it'd force you to plan attacks quite a long ways ahead. I believe it's automatically activated on a timer *because* that's difficult to work with (as the opponent will know exactly what's gonna happen), just because of how *powerful* the moves are themselves; for example the head toss on a timer would be an exceptional tool that any other character would love, for setting up extremely scary mixups or continuing pressure when it normally would end or even just getting combos where you normally wouldn't. An "assist-like" move is just so powerful, I definitely believe such a downside makes sense. The huge lightning projectile we see could also be like, tracking or something (since we see it hitting ky out of an IAD), though that would have so little counterplay I don't know about that lol.
I watched the trailer and it looks like when Bedman uses the new projectile in the air he drops Delilah you can see her falling a lil when the screen transitions, not sure if this has any significance but maybe Bedman can’t pick up Delilah while he’s “charged up”
Nice catch, it might be that they didn't want her to be held by him when he enters his lightning attacks animations (since they clearly aren't safe to be around, lol), but there also might be something more there... Hard to tell
What if its a negative edge on a timer, like, you input the special, hold down for 30f, when you release the button he does the special, then, 30f later he does the lightning followup
@@noahgreen3386 Ohhh you're right, the character's tagline is "Fighting heedless of its own destruction - Error-prone guardian machine", good catch 🤔 I'm thinking it's moreso lore-related as well
I thought it was 2K at first too, but it looks way more like 5K to me after looking at the XRD animations - it's basically 1 to 1 with it. It also doesn't really look like a low, and 2Ks are all low 🤔
@SachaDow HC seems to block low when he does it tho, and thats the reason bedman? Catched him with the 6H overhead right after, cuz he was blocking low from the 2K, bedman normals are very weird looking after all
@@andreadicastro8525 Well, I'd say HC blocks low *after* the 5K/2K because he was expecting a 2D more than it being an indication of whether the aforementioned move is low
@@SachaDow yeah, i also tought about that mostly cuz when he goes into super he does like 2K 2D stuff and thats just the baseline yknow? 2K 2D its the base super confirm
One thing that you missed is the fact that the lighting seems to gets more intense after a while. It isn't really visible in your video but in the original, you can clearly see that the lighting is weak just after Bedman? uses the projectile, while it is extremely intense just before the head falls off. To me it looks like the lighting also acts a bit like the deja vu mechanic. First you do a special move to get into the lighting state. Then you can activate another special move (0:20) to do the previous special move again. If you look at the clip starting at 0:18, you see two different projectiles. It wouldn't make sense to give Bedman? two different special moves that act almost in the same way. So the second one has to have a unique mechanic, also because it consumes the lighting. However the lighting was still at low intensity so I don't think it was an automatic attack. So the unique mechanic is probably about the position. Either it is used from the position Bedman? originally used that special move just like the deja vu mechanic in xrd or it is used from Deliliah's current position. So my guess is that the lighting actually connects two mechanics. One is some kind of deja vu mechanic like I already mentioned, while the other is an automatic attack that triggers if you don't use that deja vu within a certain time.
You make some great points! I honestly could see all of this be true, I didn't think for a minute that lightning could be used for multiple things but it makes a lot of sense when looking at the context of the attacks. Good catch!
@@SachaDow Thank you :) But even if I'm correct there are still a few things which feel odd though especially when looking at the deja vu mechanic in xrd: - In xrd, there were seals to mark the spot the special move will be used from. In this game these seals are gone. Why? The only reason I can think of is because they move around. This could mean they are used from Delilah's position now. But that would probably feel very slow given she doesn't look very mobile. And trying to go the extra mile and taking her with you just to enable a single deja vu attack doesn't sound worth it. - In xrd, the seals just disappear after a certain time. In this game, they seemed to have added a completely new mechanic when the time runs out. Again, why? It makes the character way more complex while not adding much to it. It even encourages you to not use the deja vu mechanic which feels wrong. But maybe these two things just sound odd in theory and feel totally fine when actually playing the character.
@@Dragoonking17 I think those make quite a bit of sense in context, actually :0 For the seals: since we think the Deja Vu equivalent will not actually be quite a "repeat" of the move Bedman? already did like in XRD, but rather some unique moves that (at least to some extent) reflect the normal version of the move, it will not need to come from *a specific place* like it did in that game. For example, when Bedman? does the lightning projectile, a symbol very similar to a Deja Vu one appears exactly centered on his head; to me, this indicates that it actually does come from his current position and not Delilah's, and it would just work as a sort of "enhanced" (or alternative) version of the stinger projectile, but which consumes his lightning charge. This would tie in to the rest: since (probably) your usual specials will be rather mediocre, you'll want to use the stronger, "Deja Vu"-like versions (like the lightning projectile that covers both the ground and IAD angles instead of your regular projectile) - but on the other hand, you'll *also* want to keep the charge for later (assuming the only overcharge special is headtoss here) because it's likely to be extremely powerful. It creates an interesting situation where you both want to use your enhanced specials, and wait for a while to get the most versatile one at the same time, which I think matches quite well with some other design philosophies in GGST (though not to the same extent, of course); like Goldlewis that wants a drone out as fast as possible but will want to wait for the lvl3 version to be available.
Important note:
I messed up the frame data for the airdash, it seems like it's first actionable on frame 18 and not 21.
New theories (as of march 18th):
It seems like only the "head toss" special is actually automatically activated after a certain time. Bedman? starts smoking before the head detaches, which would be a reasonable visual tell; while in the lightning projectile clip, nothing of the sort happens.
In fact, the lightning projectile also has a Deja Vu-like icon appear on activation, which leads to what this special would probably be: something like a move that can only be done when charged with lightning, but that doesn't come out automatically and needs to be manually input. This would explain why it locks Bedman? in an animation, since otherwise it'd be extremely punishing. It consuming lightning charge also makes sense if it's supposed to be an enhanced special.
Really good video, the only thing for me is that what u called 6P Doesn't really look like one
I think that what u called 6p is actually the start up of the move, and yes is actually punishable but punishing it isn't an answer Cause the exploding head will probably remain on the stage even if u hit bedman, meaning pressing a button will just get u CH
@@firework0097 Well, the move does have an arcing motion going in front and above Bedman?, similar to some other 6Ps (notably like Faust's, but also other characters like XRD Raven).
I must also say, it being a special wouldn't explain why the lightning disappears instantly upon the head detaching (and not any other time during the move), and many characters would have options to punish it anyway (for example, Sol could do Bandit Revolver to punish it while getting out of range of the explosion, or any other character could 66BRC with meter), making it an exceptionally bad move in the matchup - which is especially bad if this move comes out automatically, because it would mean Bedman is locked out of doing (whatever triggers it) ever.
Also, looking at the animation frame by frame, I really can't see it being part of the same move; it doesn't match very well with the attack it's coming from, which would make little sense if it was a single move...
I might still be wrong, and you could totally be right mind you :p but I really can't see it being anything except 6P at this time.
@@SachaDow now what u said is true but
1)we need to see the actual range of that explosion to say for sure if that is punishable by bandit revolver
2) the fact that it is automatic might be absurdly strong cause it means that if bedman is blocking and the head is about to fall u will lose Ur offense for doing nothing wrong.
3) it actually makes sense for the shock effect to stop only after the head falls cause it was actually what was mulfunctioning
4)u might even be right but I don't know, it might make bedman a bad character cause everything he does is too random, and might make him unsafe for doing nothing wrong or even make him to strong for getting free offense by doing nothing
@@firework0097 1) It's true that we technically can't know for sure, but the explosion is quite small (visually).
2) That is very true, it would be very powerful - but, because you can't choose exactly when you activate it (being on a timer) and because you need to first do a specific special to get into "lightning state", the opponent will know in advance what will happen, which balances it out. Especially since if you need to wait X amount of time before the attack comes out, so you would need to predict what kind of situation you will be in later.
Also, just like Zato's Eddie or Jack-O's minions for example, it's very possible that if you block, "lightning state" is instantly removed, meaning you can't just "block and have the head attack for you".
3) That's fair I guess 🤔
4) Him being very complex is the point I think, he was always a weirdo and the GGST website gave him a difficulty rating that indicates he's quite hard to use (though the GGST website's difficulty ratings aren't always very good...) so him having some hard-to-control elements make sense to me.
The frame inspector
🕵
This was a great video, interested to see how the character turns out!
Someone else noticed that the lightning projectile projectile kinda looks like it comes from delilah and has a bit of homing like old task A. They stand too close to be sure but looking at it closely it really doesn't feel like the bed is the one sending out the attack.
As for the mechanic itself I think you're right with it being an automatic delayed activation depending on your actions. Maybe after a certain time in lightning mode you automatically get the exploding head(could also vary depending on what normal you last used) after a set amount of time or you can do a special to immediately get a different followup, in this case the lightning projectile.
If that spike shot is fast enough to catch people trying to do 6P i will love it
I drew pretty much the same conclusions bar any conclusion on the 6P(?). Great video, nice to see some frame data in a video breakdown too.
The automatic tweet its not sure if its 100% real, because they used a similar description for his deja vu mechanic way back in the day, so its either true, or they just put his old description there and his gimmick its something else
That's also definitely a possibility, but from what we can gather in the trailer I couldn't think of another possibility for an unifying way to make the mechanic work with both the lightning projectile *and* the head toss (since head toss happens *during* another move while lightning projectile takes control away from the character), those two being the only "lightning-using" specials we know of.
@@SachaDow i think how it works its that doing a special stores energy and makes you go malfunction mode, and then any special move you do will have an automatic malfunction followup
@@SachaDow its like any move becomes a rekka and your character its forced to do the second followup, because if you see closely, as soon as he finishes the second projectile, he gets that weird electric move, as soon as he lets the whole 6P animation rock, he gets that followup
@@andreadicastro8525 I don't disagree this is a possibility, but the thing is that the 6P into head toss isn't *one after the other*, the head toss happens *during the 6P recovery* and not afterwards 🤔 so to me it kinda means that like, moves can't really "get an automatic followup" if the follow-up happens *during the move* sometimes, and sometimes it's a whole move that locks you in an animation (with the electric projectile)... Honestly though, could go either way, I def can see what you mean
@@SachaDow what i meant about the 6P was that if you were charged up and you did 6P, then 6P would always shoot the head off, if you arent charged up it would just act like a normal 6P, because if its like you say and it can fall off during any move, it would look really weird when you do move like 2P or 5K/2K for example
Read Umineko is the most important thing I got out of this.
thanks for this.
this is a very good video I love this
very cool video
By activate automatically I'm guessing it's a form of deja vu after you've done certain specials but u don't need to control it.
It's very interesting observations that you made. Thank you for pointing out the lightning which I totally missed. Personally I don't really like the idea of moves automatically activiating, although if that is how it works then I'd assume it works based on context of the current action rather than the initial special move. Pretty much where bedman? is on the screen, jumping attacking, blocking far or close range etc. Otherwise I feel the character would be very restrictive which I don't like.
I agree it'd be quite cumbersome, though I think it's very cool that it'd force you to plan attacks quite a long ways ahead.
I believe it's automatically activated on a timer *because* that's difficult to work with (as the opponent will know exactly what's gonna happen), just because of how *powerful* the moves are themselves; for example the head toss on a timer would be an exceptional tool that any other character would love, for setting up extremely scary mixups or continuing pressure when it normally would end or even just getting combos where you normally wouldn't. An "assist-like" move is just so powerful, I definitely believe such a downside makes sense.
The huge lightning projectile we see could also be like, tracking or something (since we see it hitting ky out of an IAD), though that would have so little counterplay I don't know about that lol.
they went and gave the bed a blood gauge, huh?
great video
Thank you sacha
I watched the trailer and it looks like when Bedman uses the new projectile in the air he drops Delilah you can see her falling a lil when the screen transitions, not sure if this has any significance but maybe Bedman can’t pick up Delilah while he’s “charged up”
Nice catch, it might be that they didn't want her to be held by him when he enters his lightning attacks animations (since they clearly aren't safe to be around, lol), but there also might be something more there... Hard to tell
READ UMINEKO!!
you were right LMAO
What if its a negative edge on a timer, like, you input the special, hold down for 30f, when you release the button he does the special, then, 30f later he does the lightning followup
Would be ̶F̶u̶n̶n̶y̶ ironic if you deal twice the damage when you hit Delilah
Where the slashless video at
What’s kinda scaring me is they advertised the character as “error prone”, so is there some mechanic that can mess up with rng?
Do you remember where you heard that? I haven't seen this anywhere..
i think that was mostly for flavor / lore, it was in the big block text in the trailer right?
@@noahgreen3386 Ohhh you're right, the character's tagline is "Fighting heedless of its own destruction - Error-prone guardian machine", good catch 🤔 I'm thinking it's moreso lore-related as well
Also i think thats 2K not 5K
I thought it was 2K at first too, but it looks way more like 5K to me after looking at the XRD animations - it's basically 1 to 1 with it. It also doesn't really look like a low, and 2Ks are all low 🤔
@SachaDow HC seems to block low when he does it tho, and thats the reason bedman? Catched him with the 6H overhead right after, cuz he was blocking low from the 2K, bedman normals are very weird looking after all
@@andreadicastro8525 Well, I'd say HC blocks low *after* the 5K/2K because he was expecting a 2D more than it being an indication of whether the aforementioned move is low
@@SachaDow yeah, i also tought about that mostly cuz when he goes into super he does like 2K 2D stuff and thats just the baseline yknow? 2K 2D its the base super confirm
One thing that you missed is the fact that the lighting seems to gets more intense after a while. It isn't really visible in your video but in the original, you can clearly see that the lighting is weak just after Bedman? uses the projectile, while it is extremely intense just before the head falls off.
To me it looks like the lighting also acts a bit like the deja vu mechanic. First you do a special move to get into the lighting state. Then you can activate another special move (0:20) to do the previous special move again. If you look at the clip starting at 0:18, you see two different projectiles. It wouldn't make sense to give Bedman? two different special moves that act almost in the same way. So the second one has to have a unique mechanic, also because it consumes the lighting. However the lighting was still at low intensity so I don't think it was an automatic attack. So the unique mechanic is probably about the position. Either it is used from the position Bedman? originally used that special move just like the deja vu mechanic in xrd or it is used from Deliliah's current position.
So my guess is that the lighting actually connects two mechanics. One is some kind of deja vu mechanic like I already mentioned, while the other is an automatic attack that triggers if you don't use that deja vu within a certain time.
You make some great points! I honestly could see all of this be true, I didn't think for a minute that lightning could be used for multiple things but it makes a lot of sense when looking at the context of the attacks. Good catch!
@@SachaDow Thank you :)
But even if I'm correct there are still a few things which feel odd though especially when looking at the deja vu mechanic in xrd:
- In xrd, there were seals to mark the spot the special move will be used from. In this game these seals are gone. Why? The only reason I can think of is because they move around. This could mean they are used from Delilah's position now. But that would probably feel very slow given she doesn't look very mobile. And trying to go the extra mile and taking her with you just to enable a single deja vu attack doesn't sound worth it.
- In xrd, the seals just disappear after a certain time. In this game, they seemed to have added a completely new mechanic when the time runs out. Again, why? It makes the character way more complex while not adding much to it. It even encourages you to not use the deja vu mechanic which feels wrong.
But maybe these two things just sound odd in theory and feel totally fine when actually playing the character.
@@Dragoonking17 I think those make quite a bit of sense in context, actually :0
For the seals: since we think the Deja Vu equivalent will not actually be quite a "repeat" of the move Bedman? already did like in XRD, but rather some unique moves that (at least to some extent) reflect the normal version of the move, it will not need to come from *a specific place* like it did in that game. For example, when Bedman? does the lightning projectile, a symbol very similar to a Deja Vu one appears exactly centered on his head; to me, this indicates that it actually does come from his current position and not Delilah's, and it would just work as a sort of "enhanced" (or alternative) version of the stinger projectile, but which consumes his lightning charge.
This would tie in to the rest: since (probably) your usual specials will be rather mediocre, you'll want to use the stronger, "Deja Vu"-like versions (like the lightning projectile that covers both the ground and IAD angles instead of your regular projectile) - but on the other hand, you'll *also* want to keep the charge for later (assuming the only overcharge special is headtoss here) because it's likely to be extremely powerful.
It creates an interesting situation where you both want to use your enhanced specials, and wait for a while to get the most versatile one at the same time, which I think matches quite well with some other design philosophies in GGST (though not to the same extent, of course); like Goldlewis that wants a drone out as fast as possible but will want to wait for the lvl3 version to be available.