It’s a piece of it. Have to remember in the old scheme what helped was you are rushing 3 d line men. So it helped the outside linebackers get home a bit better. For hafleys scheme to work. You need two dominant studs in the middle to eat up a bunch of pressure. Also it’s showing that Gary’s production might be flukey. I hope I’m wrong in that department but it’s what I’m seeing so far.
Joe Barry be like: Miss me yet? Although I’ll say the pass rush was better, I think the secondary being better outweighs the pass rush not being that great
I appreciate Kenny Clark a lot, but he’s not Gilbert Brown/B.J. Raji. A 4-3 D needs a nose tackle who is 340+ lbs and can use one arm to close line running bags while holding two blockers.
Gutey HAS to address this in the draft this year especially after not making any trade moves. We get ran on and moved all over the place up front and in the playoffs teams are going to run the ball
You’re describing the opposite. A 3-4 needs a massive NT. You have throw interior linemen in a 4-3. It’s obviously always a luxury to have a guy like Gilbert Brown. But he was a once in a generation talent. Not many men his size move like he did. I think we should trade for Dexter Lawrence
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed this. What also made me notice was LVN regression. He showed a lot of flashes last year and I was expecting a step up but maybe this new scheme hasn’t allowed him to
Facts! I have noticed as well and with all the packers fans calling LVN a bust I just can’t see it not after what I saw last year. It has to be the new scheme coupled with his playing time
@@Packman2397scheme this scheme that your on the d line. Especially on pass rush it’s really an issue of these guys having nothing but athleticism and bull rushing. They have not drafted an actual skilled pass rusher out of the draft. Just big athletic guys who they think they can teach at 23 years old
@@sethb8831 your not wrong. The problem is gutey thinks you’re wrong. But I’m with you. Especially after gutey learned from Thompson and doesn’t believe in making “splash” selections. TJ watt was a splash selection and we traded out instead lol. Obviously the list goes on but I’m with you brotha
@@sethb8831 And they don't have a teacher. The players are the same, but Jason Rebovich is new DL coach. This guy coaches middle LB last year, and LBs were bad. He is DL coach now, and the whole units play like crabs.
We dont have a DE that is designed for this team. Everyone's bull rushing with contain. We dont have a twitchy edge guys who can come at you in different ways.
Would I love a better pass rush? Of course. But as you said the two areas that are improved make a huge difference, we're twice as good on 3rd down (letting teams convert on 3rd down is so demoralizing and frustrating) and on creating turnovers, each of which can be a game changer. Again, I want a better pass rush and we are going to have to get better at it if we're going to be a serious team, but of the two I'd rather have a DC that can stop teams on 3rd down and create turnovers rather than DC that's just good (mid) at pass rushing. Also keep this in mind, our current defense was mostly built for Joe Barry and the 3-4. This is why our vets aren't doing as well as under Barry and why all of our recent signings and draft picks seem to be excelling, they're Hafley choices that fit in well with the 4-3 (another off season cycle of acquisitions will see our D get even better under Hafley).
But we can’t do an trades because the trade deadline is already passed but I definitely agree once it’s the end of the season and Packers are out and are able to trade for players again
remember last time the packers moved defense aj hawk couldn’t adjust some players can’t play in a 4-3 man, even in high school ball some guys are just better in 3-4 then 4-3. Our new coordinator is a beast, our players just need to adapt and if they can’t they will be gone!
I can tell you why our pass rush was better we have 3-4 players playing in a 4-3 scheme heavier set guys aren't the move for 4-3 u need lighter faster guys quay for example needs to be an edge rusher in this defense
I’ll take what we have atm, mostly bcuz Hafley will actually make obvious changes from game to game and after halftime. Barry didn’t do any of that. He didn’t scheme to take away the offenses strengths. Hafley does. We have a looot of cap space and I could definitely see us bringing someone in to play opposite Gary
Will he really make those changes? Took half a year to bench stokes, pass rush is awful and everyone involved in that has regressed, Walker should have his role changed. Regardless if Hafley overall is or ends up being better, he’s not making obvious changes.
The 3-4 is probably a better D with the players the Pack currently have on the roster. Joe wasn't that bad of a DC. The Pack made the playoffs several times with Joe, including an appearance to the NFC championship game. The problem was that the Pack hadn't drafted any quality safeties or linebackers in years. If Joe had McKinney and Williams and/or Cooper, the Pack probably would have made a Superbowl appearance last season. . In a 4-3, you can't blitz on every passing down, so the linebackers are gonna have to play some coverage. You're also not gonna get to the QB on every passing down. There are several 4-3 personnel strategies to consider when building a 4-3 front. You could have big powerful Dlineman that won't always get to the QB cuz they lack elite speed. The big Dlineman can win the battle in the trenches over 4 qtrs but the D is going to have to have good coverage behind them. they will wear out the Oline with tough physical play in the long game. You could also have lighter quicker, and more athletic D lineman who can get to the QB frequently, but they will get washed out over 4 qts when they play bigger physical Olineman. A good compromise is to have bigger, more physical D lineman as starters and rotate lighter, athletic, speedier DEs in key situations. Playing good D isn't only about sacking the QB. You also have to play good coverage and stop the run. Hafley's doing an okay job as a first year DC. He needs some time to make adjustments from college to the pros.
They definitely need to improve on that but they have gotten better in other area just generate more pass rush and try to game plan on how to stop the run.
This is more of a mindset than anything else. Yes, Jeff Hafley does blitz more often than Joe Barry did, but the attitude itself is vastly different as well. Under Joe Barry, the underlying philosophy was more bend, don’t break. The primary goal was to take away the splash play and then rely on the offense to make a mistake of some kind to derail a drive. Joe Barry believed that if you force an offense to go 10 plays and 80 yards, eventually there will be a penalty, a dropped pass or a mistake of some kind that will end the drive short of the end zone. The overall approach was more passive. Jeff Hafley wants to be more aggressive and to simplify things for his defensive players. One result of Jeff Hafley’s attitude has been more turnovers. The Green Bay Packers currently lead the NFL with 19 takeaways created in 10 games. Last season, in 17 games, the Green Bay Packers had only 18 takeaways total. Go Pack Go 💚💚💛💛
Gutey failed us..they should've drafted for Hafleys Defense...a guy like Verse would've been perfect..maybe they draft a sleedy edge rusher bc of the new scheme
We drafted and developed players for a different scheme Rashon Gary being the most obvious but we need more time for them ti learn or retool the whole front line
LVN and Rashan Gary have powers, but don't have lateral quickness, twitches. They can't convert from power to quickness move. NFL OT are all big and strong. They neutralize the power move easily. DE like Gary and LVN can't bend the corner to be effective. They can pressure one on one, but rely on stunting or looping.
The defense as a whole is much better. I will gladly take a bit of time for the pass rush to materialize for the level of defensive play We are seeing. And just to put it out there, LVN is not a bust, Quay is playing well, and y’all need to calm down
Tf is you talking about yes it does matter😂😂😂this team isn’t winning anything major playing like this barely beating trash teams doesn’t call for “doesn’t matter”
@@Dre384 blame the players at the end of day they are the ones making the plays or not making them they have to be better they have all been lack luster and they can blame themselves for that shifting the blame elsewhere is not going to fix anything the dline has to play better
where have you been joe berry had soft coverage this year you see so much better pass coverage yea every year we suck at run defense but I would say we defiantly got better last year we would have Preston smith guard Jefferson tell me how that's smart this year we have so many turn overs
You're comparing year 4 of a scheme vs year 1... Do the year 1 scheme under both After thinking... Cant even do that.. Z was a cheat code... This scheme just needs time...
Data is good but it doesn't tell the story. It was the way the Barry D list that was aggravating - soft coverage, no scheme adjustments, no feedback from players. We made garbage QBs look like all stars and gave up game winning drives looks we owed someone favors. Good riddance. And Go Pack Go.
Ashe me is only as good as our talent. We suck on defensive. Enough of beating a dead horse. Missed a chance to get better with free agency but as long as management stays the same our defense will always be this way. Just like with Rodgers. Offense has to try and do it all. Watch Brock pick us apart this weekend and the RB run all over us.
They have the wrong linebackers in there number seven number 56 and you need to start the rookie number 59 those out of three linebackers that should be playing fast and they’re young
Don't want to hear it. Everybody complained about Berry. And this is a team defense proven to be more dynamic and successful than last year. Packer fans gotta stop finding things to cry about.
1) It's the 1st season of the transition to the 4-3. It's not really fair to start an actual comparison. 2) I think the bigger issue is Lafluer. He's in over his head like McCarthy calling plays when he should be Hesd Coach. Do you see Dan Campbell calling the plays? No. His OC calls the plays. What a novel idea. He's coaching his players to win, and he doesn't coddle them. There's a clear difference in the results.
1 why would lafluer not make calls did you watch any of the games with levis lafluer did and amazing job calling plays 2 lafluer calls good plays why would he stop 3 love calls half the plays himself
@zachsczesny8503 My point is that while he is calling plays, he is not doing his job as HC. He has his face buried in the play sheet most of the game while young players are repeatedly making mistakes that cost games. This is why we fail to get past the championship game every time. If he is set in calling plays, he should be the OC and let someone else be HC. He can't do both. Neither could McCarthy. We need a mean HC that doesn't accept excuses from his players and is not there to be their friend. He is supposed to get his players into the mindset of winning, which requires a lot of commitment in the off-season from the players, so they're ready to go when they get into camp. Instead, he coddles them, they show up largely out of shape, then he sits them through the pre-season. Then, we routinely lose half of them in the 1st couple of weeks to soft-tissue injuries, groin pulls, etc. When they come back, if they come back, they spend all season rehabbing and are never 100%. The result is always "almost" getting there and drafting in the mid to late 20's. Then, repeat. If "almost" is OK with you, then Lafleur is your man, because as long as he continues doing the same thing over and over, you shouldn't expect a different result.
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The linebackers are holding the defense back because this scheme needs the linebackers do well all over the field.
It’s a piece of it. Have to remember in the old scheme what helped was you are rushing 3 d line men. So it helped the outside linebackers get home a bit better. For hafleys scheme to work. You need two dominant studs in the middle to eat up a bunch of pressure. Also it’s showing that Gary’s production might be flukey. I hope I’m wrong in that department but it’s what I’m seeing so far.
7-3 with a bad rush? That leaves me optimistic for improvement and peaking for playoffs. 🤞
🎯
Joe Barry be like: Miss me yet?
Although I’ll say the pass rush was better, I think the secondary being better outweighs the pass rush not being that great
Secondary still be getting cooked tho
@ occasionally
"Outweighs" is a stretch
Xavier McKinney is the difference
I appreciate Kenny Clark a lot, but he’s not Gilbert Brown/B.J. Raji. A 4-3 D needs a nose tackle who is 340+ lbs and can use one arm to close line running bags while holding two blockers.
Gutey HAS to address this in the draft this year especially after not making any trade moves. We get ran on and moved all over the place up front and in the playoffs teams are going to run the ball
You’re describing the opposite. A 3-4 needs a massive NT. You have throw interior linemen in a 4-3. It’s obviously always a luxury to have a guy like Gilbert Brown. But he was a once in a generation talent. Not many men his size move like he did.
I think we should trade for Dexter Lawrence
This is Hafely's 1st year, 4-3 verses 3-4. Give them time.
Saleh should sit in with defense and help Hafley
Too many mouths would be an issue
Two chiefs one Indian not good will under-mind and disrupt the plan, it’s the first year let it play out.
@@thebitefight2601well said sir
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed this. What also made me notice was LVN regression. He showed a lot of flashes last year and I was expecting a step up but maybe this new scheme hasn’t allowed him to
Facts! I have noticed as well and with all the packers fans calling LVN a bust I just can’t see it not after what I saw last year. It has to be the new scheme coupled with his playing time
@@Packman2397scheme this scheme that your on the d line. Especially on pass rush it’s really an issue of these guys having nothing but athleticism and bull rushing. They have not drafted an actual skilled pass rusher out of the draft. Just big athletic guys who they think they can teach at 23 years old
@@sethb8831 your not wrong. The problem is gutey thinks you’re wrong. But I’m with you. Especially after gutey learned from Thompson and doesn’t believe in making “splash” selections. TJ watt was a splash selection and we traded out instead lol. Obviously the list goes on but I’m with you brotha
@@sethb8831 And they don't have a teacher. The players are the same, but Jason Rebovich is new DL coach. This guy coaches middle LB last year, and LBs were bad. He is DL coach now, and the whole units play like crabs.
He’ll come alive next year. It took Gary three years…
We dont have a DE that is designed for this team. Everyone's bull rushing with contain. We dont have a twitchy edge guys who can come at you in different ways.
Our defense is the same lol. We switched coordinators and scheme but the outcome hasn't changed much.
Thank the "genius" GM
It’s a new scheme defense will hit their stride when it matters most
Would I love a better pass rush? Of course. But as you said the two areas that are improved make a huge difference, we're twice as good on 3rd down (letting teams convert on 3rd down is so demoralizing and frustrating) and on creating turnovers, each of which can be a game changer. Again, I want a better pass rush and we are going to have to get better at it if we're going to be a serious team, but of the two I'd rather have a DC that can stop teams on 3rd down and create turnovers rather than DC that's just good (mid) at pass rushing.
Also keep this in mind, our current defense was mostly built for Joe Barry and the 3-4. This is why our vets aren't doing as well as under Barry and why all of our recent signings and draft picks seem to be excelling, they're Hafley choices that fit in well with the 4-3 (another off season cycle of acquisitions will see our D get even better under Hafley).
Has anybody seen Kenny Clark
I don’t think anyone has since he’s gotten that contract
On a milk carton.
@@cartifan911it’s the scheme
@@maddybeagle5379 they should’ve shipped his as out with Preston Smith
Too many bullrushers. They gotta use some speed moves alot more
I say we trade for Dexter Lawrence and go big game hunting for the best LB available this upcoming free agency
But we can’t do an trades because the trade deadline is already passed but I definitely agree once it’s the end of the season and Packers are out and are able to trade for players again
remember last time the packers moved defense aj hawk couldn’t adjust some players can’t play in a 4-3 man, even in high school ball some guys are just better in 3-4 then 4-3.
Our new coordinator is a beast, our players just need to adapt and if they can’t they will be gone!
I can tell you why our pass rush was better we have 3-4 players playing in a 4-3 scheme heavier set guys aren't the move for 4-3 u need lighter faster guys quay for example needs to be an edge rusher in this defense
I think hafley is choosing not to rush due to CBs being hurt.
Wasn’t Hafley A CB coach? I think he is favoring the secondary
I’ll take what we have atm, mostly bcuz Hafley will actually make obvious changes from game to game and after halftime. Barry didn’t do any of that. He didn’t scheme to take away the offenses strengths. Hafley does. We have a looot of cap space and I could definitely see us bringing someone in to play opposite Gary
Will he really make those changes? Took half a year to bench stokes, pass rush is awful and everyone involved in that has regressed, Walker should have his role changed. Regardless if Hafley overall is or ends up being better, he’s not making obvious changes.
The 3-4 is probably a better D with the players the Pack currently have on the roster. Joe wasn't that bad of a DC. The Pack made the playoffs several times with Joe, including an appearance to the NFC championship game. The problem was that the Pack hadn't drafted any quality safeties or linebackers in years. If Joe had McKinney and Williams and/or Cooper, the Pack probably would have made a Superbowl appearance last season.
.
In a 4-3, you can't blitz on every passing down, so the linebackers are gonna have to play some coverage. You're also not gonna get to the QB on every passing down. There are several 4-3 personnel strategies to consider when building a 4-3 front. You could have big powerful Dlineman that won't always get to the QB cuz they lack elite speed. The big Dlineman can win the battle in the trenches over 4 qtrs but the D is going to have to have good coverage behind them. they will wear out the Oline with tough physical play in the long game. You could also have lighter quicker, and more athletic D lineman who can get to the QB frequently, but they will get washed out over 4 qts when they play bigger physical Olineman. A good compromise is to have bigger, more physical D lineman as starters and rotate lighter, athletic, speedier DEs in key situations. Playing good D isn't only about sacking the QB. You also have to play good coverage and stop the run.
Hafley's doing an okay job as a first year DC. He needs some time to make adjustments from college to the pros.
Packers run defense still play the same like last year....
They definitely need to improve on that but they have gotten better in other area just generate more pass rush and try to game plan on how to stop the run.
Thank the "genius" GM for that
To be fair tho we are 7-3 rn😂😂 if the pass rush isnt great and were 7-3 i cant wait to see what we can do with a great pass rush!!
Our defense still has glaring issues that need to get addressed now that our playoff push has begun
Bring back this conversation after the draft when/hopefully Hafley has a say or when Packers draft personnel fit for Hafley’s scheme
blindfold, gag, and closet the GM until the 6th rnd of draft
Joe Barry's defense was trash. I think LaFleur is meddling in the defense
This is more of a mindset than anything else. Yes, Jeff Hafley does blitz more often than Joe Barry did, but the attitude itself is vastly different as well. Under Joe Barry, the underlying philosophy was more bend, don’t break. The primary goal was to take away the splash play and then rely on the offense to make a mistake of some kind to derail a drive. Joe Barry believed that if you force an offense to go 10 plays and 80 yards, eventually there will be a penalty, a dropped pass or a mistake of some kind that will end the drive short of the end zone. The overall approach was more passive. Jeff Hafley wants to be more aggressive and to simplify things for his defensive players. One result of Jeff Hafley’s attitude has been more turnovers. The Green Bay Packers currently lead the NFL with 19 takeaways created in 10 games. Last season, in 17 games, the Green Bay Packers had only 18 takeaways total. Go Pack Go 💚💚💛💛
Jeff halfey was a Db coach. He's big on safeties and dbs. Not pass rush. More focused on taking the ball away.
Gutey failed us..they should've drafted for Hafleys Defense...a guy like Verse would've been perfect..maybe they draft a sleedy edge rusher bc of the new scheme
Gute is generally useless, but the Poliburo propaganda has labeled a "genius"
We drafted and developed players for a different scheme Rashon Gary being the most obvious but we need more time for them ti learn or retool the whole front line
everyone should have known this d line would have a bad rush rate with this defense... jeff wants small fast guys
They gotta used to it up front
They remind me of the Dallas defense last year. Small and fast and make turnovers. They can’t stop the run tho
Could you please give him a year to see the result? It takes time for a coach to have an effect.
He needs time to get players to fit the scheme for sure
LVN and Rashan Gary have powers, but don't have lateral quickness, twitches. They can't convert from power to quickness move. NFL OT are all big and strong. They neutralize the power move easily. DE like Gary and LVN can't bend the corner to be effective. They can pressure one on one, but rely on stunting or looping.
Only thing I didn't like about Berry was the obvious passing down playing soft coverage
Berrys entire defense sucked he would have 1 good game every 5 games how do you only have one thing you don't like
@zachsczesny8503 Berry was held teams to single digit scores first half of both playoff games if I'm not mistaken
Fire Joe Barry!
Well I think bc the guys we got were for a 3 -4 scheme not a 4-3 they are much bigger and power guys not speed guys
The defense as a whole is much better. I will gladly take a bit of time for the pass rush to materialize for the level of defensive play We are seeing.
And just to put it out there, LVN is not a bust, Quay is playing well, and y’all need to calm down
As long as we win games. Doesn't really matter
Tf is you talking about yes it does matter😂😂😂this team isn’t winning anything major playing like this barely beating trash teams doesn’t call for “doesn’t matter”
@Dre384 relax it was a division game. They are always tough!!
@@tythelegend46 yeah igh
Honestly wee literally NEED‼️ a Dog ‼️ edge, rusher! pressure the GB .wee ‼️really NEED ‼️ a beast at that position. GO PACKK GOO!
@@Dre384 blame the players at the end of day they are the ones making the plays or not making them they have to be better they have all been lack luster and they can blame themselves for that shifting the blame elsewhere is not going to fix anything the dline has to play better
Trade #1 with a Hungry team,Always take your Guys ,be smart
The entire defense was better under Barry… Better players in key positions this year.
where have you been joe berry had soft coverage this year you see so much better pass coverage yea every year we suck at run defense but I would say we defiantly got better last year we would have Preston smith guard Jefferson tell me how that's smart this year we have so many turn overs
You're comparing year 4 of a scheme vs year 1... Do the year 1 scheme under both
After thinking... Cant even do that.. Z was a cheat code... This scheme just needs time...
Data is good but it doesn't tell the story. It was the way the Barry D list that was aggravating - soft coverage, no scheme adjustments, no feedback from players. We made garbage QBs look like all stars and gave up game winning drives looks we owed someone favors. Good riddance. And Go Pack Go.
Fire Capers !!
Ashe me is only as good as our talent. We suck on defensive. Enough of beating a dead horse. Missed a chance to get better with free agency but as long as management stays the same our defense will always be this way. Just like with Rodgers. Offense has to try and do it all. Watch Brock pick us apart this weekend and the RB run all over us.
They have the wrong linebackers in there number seven number 56 and you need to start the rookie number 59 those out of three linebackers that should be playing fast and they’re young
Don't want to hear it. Everybody complained about Berry. And this is a team defense proven to be more dynamic and successful than last year. Packer fans gotta stop finding things to cry about.
Who cares about useless stats? They have more wins because they’ve prevented more big plays. 😂
But everything else is better. Where is devonte wyatt?
So, marry some concepts into the current state…
1) It's the 1st season of the transition to the 4-3. It's not really fair to start an actual comparison.
2) I think the bigger issue is Lafluer. He's in over his head like McCarthy calling plays when he should be Hesd Coach. Do you see Dan Campbell calling the plays? No. His OC calls the plays. What a novel idea. He's coaching his players to win, and he doesn't coddle them. There's a clear difference in the results.
1 why would lafluer not make calls did you watch any of the games with levis lafluer did and amazing job calling plays
2 lafluer calls good plays why would he stop
3 love calls half the plays himself
@zachsczesny8503 My point is that while he is calling plays, he is not doing his job as HC. He has his face buried in the play sheet most of the game while young players are repeatedly making mistakes that cost games. This is why we fail to get past the championship game every time. If he is set in calling plays, he should be the OC and let someone else be HC. He can't do both. Neither could McCarthy. We need a mean HC that doesn't accept excuses from his players and is not there to be their friend. He is supposed to get his players into the mindset of winning, which requires a lot of commitment in the off-season from the players, so they're ready to go when they get into camp. Instead, he coddles them, they show up largely out of shape, then he sits them through the pre-season. Then, we routinely lose half of them in the 1st couple of weeks to soft-tissue injuries, groin pulls, etc. When they come back, if they come back, they spend all season rehabbing and are never 100%. The result is always "almost" getting there and drafting in the mid to late 20's. Then, repeat. If "almost" is OK with you, then Lafleur is your man, because as long as he continues doing the same thing over and over, you shouldn't expect a different result.
I'm looking forward seeing defense improvement this week against the 49ers. Go Pack Go!! 🟢🟡🟢🟡