My idea for solving the "back rank problem" is just to move the checkers pieces one row back to start. That also has the benefit of the checkers starting position looking a little more like the chess one. Maybe you could even do normal checkers starting position plus a full back row, which would just about equalize your quick "material value" calculation.
If it bounces backwards (to where the chess piece was), then it's a great idea bc now the checkers player can't stall out the board. Bouncing forwards is way too op tho
@@MakeVarahHappen bouncing forwards is too broken because it's two moves in one turn. That isn't supposed to happen unless you can take two pieces lined up
BTW, to fix the back rank problem, American Checkers is the only version of the game that doesn't allow capturing backwards, whereas the Polish, Russian, And international versions do. You wouldn't technically be changing the rules and it would completely solve that issue.
That gives the checkers player a huge advantage, being able to play backwards... maybe too much advantage. I like the idea of a full back row (outer edge) and standard checkers formation for rows 1-3.
I like that second option because it doesn't change the board making it easier to play at home. It's not that complicated that edge pieces are captured that way
By far the simplest fix is to say that chess pieces has to respect checkers rules in capturing checkers. This greatly reduces the threat posed by early queen attacks because you can often force the queen to take a defended checker, since captures are forced. This also provides a way to checkmate, albeit not a particularly easy way. Simply draw the king out with a sacrifice or two, then attack the king with a defended checker. The king is not able to move and is in check. That's mate. Even if it can take 4 checkers to execute. If we want it to be slightly easier for the checkers player, just say that stalemate is checkmate. That means you can checkmate the king by offering a defended piece for capture. It's still possible for the king to hide in the corners and force you to use 3 pieces on this maneuver but not easily forced unless they castled. There is a real potential for a couple of checkers kings to stop a chess king from reaching those corners.
I was thinking instead I'm adding a checker can capture off the edge by "bouncing" to the next diagonal of the same color. I think it keeps the spirit but I don't know if it solves the king issue. It has the benefit of being able to be played irl tho. Edit: I also like the idea of solving the material problem by giving the checkers side a set amount of "pre-kinged" pieces. This provides more mobility options but also the asymmetry means specific pieces are targets for capture and kinging isn't as essential for checkers.
According to wikipedia the base rating would be 4 usually, but due to risk it is theoretically the only piece worth 0 points. So quite the opposite, actually.
Back when I was in highschool I was in special ed math because it was the one thing I struggled with. Some times we'd have free time and I often spent that free time playing checkers with the special needs kids. One of them, who I'll call Dylan (fake name) had a special rule that he'd refuse to play without because he hated the edge of the board so much and I think it'd help you with this game. It's called the rainbow jump. So let's say that they have a piece at H4 and you have a piece at G5. You can "jump" by moving your piece to G3. He called it the rainbow jump because he'd move the piece along the outside edge of the board making a rainbow pattern.
Why not just allow checkers to jump over pieces both diagonally and vertically/horizontally ? So if checkers start on the black squares, they can jump over any adjacent piece on a white square and end up on the black square beyond. The Checkers can not move backwards (as normal) until they are King'd but they can capture forward, diagonally, or horizontally. This way you can start with the standard Checkers layout of three rows only on one color, you don't need any board extensions, it solves the edge problem, it solves the back row problem, and it uses simple rules.
Maybe you could make it where the checker pieces are able to capture horizontally. That could prevent the backlining from the chess player and the checker piece would still stay on their original tile color.
1 balance I can think of is either A, not allowing chess queens and rooks on the back rank, or letting normal chess pieces go and capture back and instead kings can move and capture orthogonally as well.
Maybe make it so only King Checkers can "land" in the outer side tiles, but are then immediately bounced back into the main playing field, at the checker player's discretion if they would prefer to bounce diagonally forward 1 tile, or bounce diagonally backward 1 tile, essentially occupying the tile of the piece they just captured. Maybe make the Checker a King only once they reach the back outer row, and the only way a regular checker can be remaining within the outer tiles, is if it is their very back row of their side of the board, and only if that checker began the game in the tile. Also maybe make it so a Chess Pawn can enter the outer Checker tiles on the checker's side, and make that extra Pawn movement turn a requirement to upgrade the pawn into a Queen, but the pawn can be upgraded to any lesser piece at the normal back row of the playing field that is required for a Pawn to reach to upgrade.
The back-row problem was weird for me because our version of checkers had a lot of weird rules when compared to the "normal" way(it's not normal to me hence the quotations). In the Philippines checkers(also called 'dama') pieces are way more overpowered. They can take backwards throughout the game but never move backwards. If you manage to promote, the promoted piece can move like a bishop. Also there's also a weirder nerf that you would not expect. Everytime you can take something you have to take it. Which means you can force your opponents to do what you want which makes for more interesting mind games. especially at the early game. This rule also makes for a fun alternate game where instead of trying to take all your opponent's pieces you want yours taken instead. It's like a reverse winning. you should try it.
To solve the backrank issue just have the upgraded variant 2nd row watch the backrow so that at least you have the ability to get rid of the pieces that try to go against checkers flaw against chess
A chess card game sounds interesting. All the chess pieces could be suited; maybe the pieces can be summoned by cards and different pieces can have different properties such as drawing cards or discarding current pieces in play. Maybe the board is smaller like a 3x4 to limit the pieces. Maybe there’s a campaign mode for solo play with different pre-existing board setups escalating in difficulty. Idk these are some things I’d like to see in a chess card game
Win condition could be that if each of the pieces are captured the capturer wins. 6 pawns , 2 knights, 2 bishop and/or 1 queen I don’t think king’s necessarily need to be in the game 🤷♂️
I'm gonna buy a shogi board and some checkers so that I can play not just the games they were meant for, but also this beautiful thing Edit: I realized that shogi boards are 9x9 and not 10x10, and I am now sad
Chess would demolish checkers if you dont change the rules somehow because: Chess has more pieces so if you watch out that they cant jump often then you could just trade everything the points like you said And also the checkers have around 18 points that you can use because of the edge However im surprised that you made it this good I miself tryed balancing these games one time and i had to add a new checker that can do the same however he does it straight
Imagine chess vs 3d/4d chess. Probably would not be at all balanced but you do sometimes hear people saying they were playing 4d chess while you were only _______, often chess or checkers
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
My idea for solving the "back rank problem" is just to move the checkers pieces one row back to start. That also has the benefit of the checkers starting position looking a little more like the chess one. Maybe you could even do normal checkers starting position plus a full back row, which would just about equalize your quick "material value" calculation.
i had the same idea
This is perfect! I think it would also make it feel less like horde chess in general, which is a welcomed change. Thanks!
Another possible solution I thought of for the edge problem was allowing checkers to bounce off the edge
If it bounces backwards (to where the chess piece was), then it's a great idea bc now the checkers player can't stall out the board. Bouncing forwards is way too op tho
@@Noteturtle90Why would it be?
@@MakeVarahHappen bouncing forwards is too broken because it's two moves in one turn. That isn't supposed to happen unless you can take two pieces lined up
@@Noteturtle90 But you're moving the same amount of squares you would with a normal capture.
Just found this and honestly I'm shocked you aren't more well known.
BTW, to fix the back rank problem, American Checkers is the only version of the game that doesn't allow capturing backwards, whereas the Polish, Russian, And international versions do. You wouldn't technically be changing the rules and it would completely solve that issue.
That gives the checkers player a huge advantage, being able to play backwards... maybe too much advantage. I like the idea of a full back row (outer edge) and standard checkers formation for rows 1-3.
honestly underrated
Thanks, that means a lot!
God that term is overtly common
@@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat you could say that term is overrated
I like that second option because it doesn't change the board making it easier to play at home. It's not that complicated that edge pieces are captured that way
4:50 this reminds me of the game nightmare chess that gave plays cards to break chess rules, was a physical product
By far the simplest fix is to say that chess pieces has to respect checkers rules in capturing checkers. This greatly reduces the threat posed by early queen attacks because you can often force the queen to take a defended checker, since captures are forced.
This also provides a way to checkmate, albeit not a particularly easy way. Simply draw the king out with a sacrifice or two, then attack the king with a defended checker. The king is not able to move and is in check. That's mate. Even if it can take 4 checkers to execute.
If we want it to be slightly easier for the checkers player, just say that stalemate is checkmate. That means you can checkmate the king by offering a defended piece for capture. It's still possible for the king to hide in the corners and force you to use 3 pieces on this maneuver but not easily forced unless they castled. There is a real potential for a couple of checkers kings to stop a chess king from reaching those corners.
I was thinking instead I'm adding a checker can capture off the edge by "bouncing" to the next diagonal of the same color. I think it keeps the spirit but I don't know if it solves the king issue. It has the benefit of being able to be played irl tho.
Edit: I also like the idea of solving the material problem by giving the checkers side a set amount of "pre-kinged" pieces. This provides more mobility options but also the asymmetry means specific pieces are targets for capture and kinging isn't as essential for checkers.
I have a idea if the chess pieces are still dominating make it so the normal checkers can take backwards but they can’t move backwards normally
1:37 the king is worth ♾️
According to wikipedia the base rating would be 4 usually, but due to risk it is theoretically the only piece worth 0 points.
So quite the opposite, actually.
@@ArchimedesDevyeah but without him you would have lost insantly
@@ulrikebeckmann4986
Yeah, that's why he is rated zero: Because if you lose him you lose the game.
When I heard the problem of straight edges, I immediately throught to myself, why not make the board round then?
Another solution for the checkers edge is allow them to xapture just 2 ahead
This is actually super cool! I hope more people see this and try it out!
"Im playing chess while your playing checkers" is the best way to start a video
Need black checkers pieces to offset the one unused half of spaces
Back when I was in highschool I was in special ed math because it was the one thing I struggled with. Some times we'd have free time and I often spent that free time playing checkers with the special needs kids. One of them, who I'll call Dylan (fake name) had a special rule that he'd refuse to play without because he hated the edge of the board so much and I think it'd help you with this game. It's called the rainbow jump. So let's say that they have a piece at H4 and you have a piece at G5. You can "jump" by moving your piece to G3. He called it the rainbow jump because he'd move the piece along the outside edge of the board making a rainbow pattern.
Checkers vs chess is basically a game of chess, but one player only gets pawns.
To make it fairer you should allow checkers to move backwards and vertically
Why not just allow checkers to jump over pieces both diagonally and vertically/horizontally ? So if checkers start on the black squares, they can jump over any adjacent piece on a white square and end up on the black square beyond. The Checkers can not move backwards (as normal) until they are King'd but they can capture forward, diagonally, or horizontally.
This way you can start with the standard Checkers layout of three rows only on one color, you don't need any board extensions, it solves the edge problem, it solves the back row problem, and it uses simple rules.
Maybe you could make it where the checker pieces are able to capture horizontally. That could prevent the backlining from the chess player and the checker piece would still stay on their original tile color.
1 balance I can think of is either A, not allowing chess queens and rooks on the back rank, or letting normal chess pieces go and capture back and instead kings can move and capture orthogonally as well.
Maybe make it so only King Checkers can "land" in the outer side tiles, but are then immediately bounced back into the main playing field, at the checker player's discretion if they would prefer to bounce diagonally forward 1 tile, or bounce diagonally backward 1 tile, essentially occupying the tile of the piece they just captured.
Maybe make the Checker a King only once they reach the back outer row, and the only way a regular checker can be remaining within the outer tiles, is if it is their very back row of their side of the board, and only if that checker began the game in the tile.
Also maybe make it so a Chess Pawn can enter the outer Checker tiles on the checker's side, and make that extra Pawn movement turn a requirement to upgrade the pawn into a Queen, but the pawn can be upgraded to any lesser piece at the normal back row of the playing field that is required for a Pawn to reach to upgrade.
Man checkers stands no chance
make it so you can choose the gamemode against ai
Please tell me those gold coins aren't a microtransaction.
Now make one for Shogi vs Chess. Xiangqi vs Chess. Xiangqi vs Shogi
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE CHECKERS!
The back-row problem was weird for me because our version of checkers had a lot of weird rules when compared to the "normal" way(it's not normal to me hence the quotations).
In the Philippines checkers(also called 'dama') pieces are way more overpowered. They can take backwards throughout the game but never move backwards. If you manage to promote, the promoted piece can move like a bishop.
Also there's also a weirder nerf that you would not expect. Everytime you can take something you have to take it. Which means you can force your opponents to do what you want which makes for more interesting mind games. especially at the early game.
This rule also makes for a fun alternate game where instead of trying to take all your opponent's pieces you want yours taken instead. It's like a reverse winning. you should try it.
GUYS THE PLAYTEST IS OPEN!!!!!
To solve the backrank issue just have the upgraded variant 2nd row watch the backrow so that at least you have the ability to get rid of the pieces that try to go against checkers flaw against chess
A chess card game sounds interesting. All the chess pieces could be suited; maybe the pieces can be summoned by cards and different pieces can have different properties such as drawing cards or discarding current pieces in play. Maybe the board is smaller like a 3x4 to limit the pieces. Maybe there’s a campaign mode for solo play with different pre-existing board setups escalating in difficulty.
Idk these are some things I’d like to see in a chess card game
Win condition could be that if each of the pieces are captured the capturer wins. 6 pawns , 2 knights, 2 bishop and/or 1 queen I don’t think king’s necessarily need to be in the game 🤷♂️
This is the Puyo Puyo Tetris of board games
So, how will the chess pieces ever capture checkers that are hiding along the edge?
I'm gonna buy a shogi board and some checkers so that I can play not just the games they were meant for, but also this beautiful thing
Edit: I realized that shogi boards are 9x9 and not 10x10, and I am now sad
Get a similar sized 13 by 13 go board and you could place it under a regular chess board.
Great video. Quick rules question: are checkers still forced to take if they can?
Yes! I thought about leaving that out, but I think it keeps the game interesting
Woah this looks amazing I wanna try it out
Chess would demolish checkers if you dont change the rules somehow because:
Chess has more pieces so if you watch out that they cant jump often then you could just trade everything
the points like you said
And also the checkers have around 18 points that you can use because of the edge
However im surprised that you made it this good
I miself tryed balancing these games one time and i had to add a new checker that can do the same however he does it straight
Great idea
What about the checkers don't have to have a space to capture unless it's not against the wall
wow thats very crazy
Ok but then that just makes it so chess pieces cant take checkers pieces on the edges..
Imagine chess vs 3d/4d chess. Probably would not be at all balanced but you do sometimes hear people saying they were playing 4d chess while you were only _______, often chess or checkers
Maybe make 4d player have no cards, and they only have a thin slice of 4d chess salami
You should make em' able to move backwards to remove the back rank problem
cool game mod
What about checkers piece stalling in the new spaces?
what about extend both chess armies with checkers... that intrigues me...
Why not let the checkers pieces eat forward?
Because that's not how checkers works, that basically turns every piece into a limited ranged chess queen.
It’s not enough chess skill wins
Checkers can capture backwards.
EDIT: wikipedia says it's not a thing in english checkers. I played russian checkers too much.
You can can capture backwards in draughts
I would've liked but its on 69 right now so maybe later.
Will there be a beta testing or early access available?
Yes! Join my Discord server, I'll be sending out a new wave of Alpha invites soon
1:08 La en passant
What happened to this? I can’t find more videos about this game
comment for the algorithm
Tá, mas e se o rei se esconder na casa de cor diferente das peças das damas... Como que ganha?
shogi vs chess?
So have the checker player play international checkers?
cant the king just stay on the light squares and never get checkmated?
They mentioned this in the video, try watching it and you’ll see how they addressed it.