Love that this tier list actually follows a normal distribution. Top 3 is still unanimous to be Zero/Morrigan/Vergil; I'm not surprised. I would switch Phoenix with Doom in S+ just by sheer fact that Doom gets along with virtually any team in the game while Phoenix selfishly needs to have a team built around her. Yes, she changes the way the opponent plays but she also changes the way you play as well.
I feel like people also vastly overestimate Phoenix too. The skill level of the game has progressed so far that a lot of players know what the gameplan for her is. With how much the usage of meter has been optimized, Phoenix wants a team that conserves it a ton.
Something to keep in mind when talking about how crowded the tier list seems, this is essentially what all tier lists should look like. They should be comparative to the rest of the roster, like a bell curve. The further each tier gets from the center, the less there should be, with A being the starting point for that I think Cap is a little low but the list is fantastic
I feel bad about Cap, is said to Jaeger before I feel a little unhappy with how I placed Cap. Like, I know he doesn't comfortably win Vs the better chars, even the zoning chars he is designed to have counters for, but it does keep him in those matches, and he has the damage to capitalise on the chances he gets... Maybe something I'll review next time!
Knowing a bit more about maths than I do about fighting games I would say that not all games will have a normal distribution of viability. So, I wouldn’t expect them all to have a bell curve shape. I would expect the set of fighting games measured by relative balance of characters to resemble something like a normal bell curve. But in that case there have to be a significant number fighting games that exist on the edges (about 40%, representing the top 20% and bottom 20%) of a normal distribution of relative game balance where characters are skewed very weak or very strong.
Yeah the thing that puts Morrigan at #1 for me is Dark Harmonizer. Not only does it enable some of the scummiest and most broken strategies in the game, but if things go south and your point dies, Morrigan comes in with all that bar to abuse with Astral Vision. She has the only assist that synergizes with herself and sets up her own win condition.
That assist man. It's the only assist that both does nothing in neutral and also does everything, at least for the characters that can stall the neutral and also synergise with a character that can use the meter as well as Morrigan. Bit of a joke tbh haha
@@AKeNeN she does, but she's not the only one to build meter during her install. Firebrand does and I'm pretty sure Arthur does too, plus Ryu, and one or two more? Hsien Ko doesn't in gold, zero, Dante, Vergil... But I think everyone else's does build meter still 🤔 Her anti phoenix stuff is ridiculously applicable tho!
@stop censorship Amaterasu also has a meter build assist like Frank and Morrigan. However the frame data is worse for Frank and Ammy, I believe their assists both have startup. Also their assists are attached to much worse characters.
Taskmaster can also get unblockables off Dormammu assist, and Taskmaster has a lot of new combos/extensions in 2023 that upped his damage in relevant ways, IMO.
@@SpartanThrone Got you, fam. Here's my entire Marvel 3 tech playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLsQmrb1ohhUBxyOgzUAPJ1MZOb6pxmBBs But the Taskmaster highlights are as follows: ruclips.net/video/ovpQ9pNwK0k/видео.html ruclips.net/video/kRfGvfOkdOY/видео.html ruclips.net/video/7bkbT9F4bfg/видео.html Taskmaster can now SOLO self OTG with arrow loops, up to 3 or even 4 times on certain characters with good execution. These solo loops each add about 80-100k damage and ramp up Taskmaster's already quite good meter build to genuinely ridiculous levels, IMO. I think he is a character who has required years of labbing and exploration for his gameplan to fully crystalize and mature, and now, in late 2022-2023, there's so much new combos, setups, tech, that I think a lot of players are looking him over even more, their perception of him still tied to early UMVC3 meta, IMO
I don’t know if my opinion is even valid (I’m high beginner at best) but task is just that character where he’s just good at everything. His are decent and they can go in a variety of angles, shield skill is amazing at blowing through projectiles, he has great normals, and can even be a great damage engine. Granted that’s also his main weakness, but the sheer amount of things he can do makes him great. Though as I said before, I probably don’t know wtf I’m talking about
@@aclonymousBecause teambuilding is still a vital part of the game. You can't just slap phoenix on any time because you have to specifically build a team around her.
Best tier list breakdown for this game that I've ever seen. It's incredible that Jwong and KBR won evo with the teams that they had. The first to 3 format makes a lot of lower than S characters viable.
Interesting list! If I had to pick a big gripe, i'd say Doom should be right behind phoenix. Doom is in 98% of every top 8 since the game came out (thats over 10 years) for a reason: His support is too damn good, and no one else will ever come close no matter how much new tech is discovered in the next 10 years imo
Great video! Also, you forgot to mention Spidey's anti phoenix tech. I think setting up Spidey's tech is the easiest to do compared to the other characters that have similar anti phoenix tech (except for Morrigan who has the best anti phoenix tech)
Yo Monix thanks for saying so, is Spidey's so easy? Cause he doesn't struggle as much as some of the others / doesn't need to level up first? Do you find yourself getting to use it often, because Spidey is on point?
@@SpartanThrone Spidey's web-throw move is a cinematic, so even when Phoenix has no health, she won't pop from the web-throw until she touches the floor. This is an easy set up for Maximum Spider super > xfactor cancel > UWT super, or 2H > UWT super after web-throw. I try to use the tech as often as I can, but in my case I also have the option for Dante TAC timer scams if the situation warrants it. Since MOST Phoenix players will break the side TAC, I feel I would have a better chance landing an up or down TAC and running down the time with the timer scam infinite versus snapping in Phoenix and getting another clean hit on her.
Top 1 is Morrigan for sure. Shoto moveset + Fly/unfly cancel + Astral Vision automatically puts her in top 3 on paper alone; the rest of her kit, and more importantly the ceiling on her puts her at top 1. It's 2023 and only just last year did we really start to see Soul Drain combos being landed in tournament play on a relatively somewhat consistent basis (when actually even attempted, which is still fairly rare), Dark Harmonizer has been enabling broken strats forever, and hell ChrisG dominated marvel 3's most active era without actually using half of that stuff.
The soul drain stuff is nuts. Even if they drop it, the benefit is so huge, you just aren't coming back often enough Vs a morrigan who had just done like 60% to 80% of your health while stealing your meter. It's so outrageously in her favour even if she doesn't kill, hell you could argue it's better if she doesn't kill because she either chips your point char or lets you hang yourself by tagging out or spending the little bar you have left for a tac, or even better still if she forces your XF
@@SpartanThroneEven though the meter drain combos are ridiculously difficult, I'm still kinda surprised they weren't attempted earlier in UMvC3's history just because of how ridiculously rewarding they are.
TBH, iheartjustice put the Respect to Phoenix Wright more than any low tier because the moment he got Turnabout, this is effectively X-Factor Lv3 for him because for some weird ass reason, PW got Lv3 X-factor damage regardless of which X-Factor he was in. PW Turnabout mode is like when Zappa got Raou.
Aw, I was hoping Glass would mention me with Deadpool, Taskmaster and Captain America damage. Dorkasaurus already explained pretty much everything for Taskmaster, so I'll explain for Captain America. You can combo from his forward throw solo on certain body types, namely MODOK and Rocket Raccoon. When it comes to zoning, I tend to use his shield like a yo-yo instead of a Frisbee or boomerang. Do what I call Instant Air Shield Slashes so Cap lands much sooner, then (plink) backdash to prolong the shield's return to punish overzealous opponents. Long story short, those Instant Air Shield Slashes yield quite substantial damage in the corner. With Deadpool, I'm geared more towards damage than resets, my combos contain a lot of Quick Works. To add one thing to Dorkasaurus' comment, depending on the body shape and size, you can do a lot more damage; north of one million damage with one meter.
I truthfully respect this list for not only how detailed it is but also the acknowledgment of balance due to how cracked this game is. Matchups change in terms of shells, and certain things are weird enough to just thrash you. The knowledge, respect, and awareness as you ranked the middle characters is refreshimg to see, and I fully agree, you could be running a team defining nightmare like Vergil/Doom/Strider has almost all the knowledge in stone and just gets deleted by a better/more eccentric/loyalist who knows hard counters. Thor/23/Ironman be a goofy as team, but this squad will run your lights out behind the right pilot. Thanks, KjMccloud, for the 11 years of Marvel abuse and teaching me Vergil on point struggles against health pools. I am looking forward to the team shells or someone to validate me like DeadXPride with his godlike pressure to tell me this is possible 🤣 Keep it up, Sparty, your oration skills and quit wit make it a pleasure to watch your knowledge of a game built for masochists still dying to the B tier.
Wow such kind words, thank you for the feedback I appreciate the honesty 😊😄 I'll be sure to finish my prep for either the shells or the teams tier list soon enough!
That was an awesome watch. Great hearing your explanations and thoughts, really an inside view in how you view the game. Keep it up with the content mate
Hehe, yeah closest I've seen to that is either Ratio tournaments, but also for our EU stuff we do we have done character ban tourneys with some different and crazy rules.
Poor Ryu. You only see ABCABC combos for Ryu because people who play Ryu have still been leaving Denjin untapped. I wish I could put my knowledge of Ryu into a top player to show him off.
It's cool seeing what you come up with for him, it's just the reward of playing him isn't so unapparent that it's hard to justify playing him. Ray and DxP are the only two tiptop players who've put time into him and it's the same old thing of... He's part of a team so it's not just Ryu, but it's also that he's being piloted by someone who is better than the opponent in most cases. I did mention his Denjin stuff, but the issue for him is his low meter build, tough conversions on higher air confirms, and that he can only spend bar when he throws, meaning he ends up with low meter and having to spend more. Meanwhile his neutral tools are limited, so most chars in the game have him at a disadvantage in most situations. He's Def a fun character but while he's Ryu, he's not the Ryu of this game 🥲 he could really do with a meterless OTG (that doesn't lead to an infinite with his HKD sweep), and perhaps some better properties on his tatsu, hadoken and Denjin. What changes would you give him?
@@SpartanThrone His meter build in Denjin is respectable but again, that requires a bar to do that, haha. Hopefully when I can play people in 2024, and can gain match experience, I'll be able to show him off a bit to what I think is his top potential. OTG would be nice but I think what I care about more than that is altering his SRK a bit to cause more of a knock down similar o his Battle for the Grid version. This would make Shoryuken canceled into Denjin actually worth it and the combo routes would be insane. So many characters in this game can combo from their SRKs but not Ryu. Denjin lasting longer and not draining red health would be sick and maybe an aimable Shin Hadoken if not OTG on his Shin Tastu.
Blimey, big question. A couple that come to mind would be Phoenix Wright, he should definitely have some evidence based assists... But in keeping with his design they'd probably make it like Dorm's Liberation assist where he needs to get the evidence on point first. Alternatively he could have Maya Shield as an assist, that would be similar to MODOK Shield assist but massive for his utility in support. I kinda wish Chris had Flame Grenade as and assist or possibly a full Flame Thrower, but really think something like Magnum assist would be more realistic. BOOM. Same for Wesker, horizontal gunshot assist would be nice. If Deadpool had a low guns assist that would be nuts. Wolvy could really do with H Berserker Barrage, or his OTG move hitting low like it does on point. Don't even know what I'd give Jill, where's Corky at? Viper should def have Eye Beam, orrrrrr it'd be really cool if she had EX versions of her assists that cost meter to call, EX Seismo or EX Thunder Knuckle, both would be really cool. Any other characters you might have been thinking of? Generally I would want a variety in assists, while getting more beam equivalent/alternatives because they make characters so much more viable in the 2nd or last spot.
@@SpartanThrone I was gonna say maybe it would make more characters viable if assists had assist exclusive properties, for example make Viewtiful Joe's Groovy Uppercut or Ryu's shoryuken assist have some invincibility on startup. Or maybe make Vjoe's Voomerang assist be a charged one that hits OTG so it can be a sort of alternative to Hidden Missiles. Spider-Man's web ball assist could force a restand making him an alternative to Spencer. Super Skrull with a tracking Meteor Smash assist could be similar to Vajra as well. Maybe even make Hsien-Ko's item toss assist force a stun. Also you might hate me for saying this but imagine if Firebrand's unblockable demon missile were an assist (with the same long startup time)
Do you happen to have a matchup chart for wolverine on point? My friend plays wolverine/doom/vergil and is looking to see what you think he does well against and what he does bad against.
I don't. Matchups are so loose in this game because point wolverine could mean 10 different teams, and even when you say "Wolvy/doom/Vergil does well against point X or Y", that changes when they are backed by 2 chars or even just when the assist changes. I think Magneto is a rough matchup for Wolvy for example with Wolvy/Dorm/Iron Fist. But Angelic thinks it's like even or better for Wolvy and he plays 2 of the same characters (Wolvy/Dorm/Shuma). So matchup charts are not really practical to make in this game.
@@SpartanThrone Alright. Would it be possible to get a rough idea considering optimal scenarios against wolverine with doom laser specifically? He thinks Zero is the worst followed by morrigan, nova, spencer, phoenix, magneto, dante, doom in no specific order. Hes trying to find a character he can use to counter the bad matchups wolverine has.
@@agentofforce3467 he does 'lose' to most of those, but beats Dante and Doom due to his quicker buttons and mobility. We're talking small margins in some cases but Wolvy is really reliant on assists to get him in Vs those other characters who have their own strong projectile tools in addition to their assists that enhance them.
I wouldn't within this. This list assumes their best placement mostly. Though I definitely rate that differently and will one day put out different lists for point/mid/anchor!
If you had to buff Viewtiful Joe what changes would you make to him and his assists and why? I think the fully charged voomerang would make for a better assist than the default one.
I think a fully character voomerang assist would be so broke looooool I'm not having fun in my head with that idea. Erm, honestly hard to say, I'd probably only change his ability to extend combos himself, maybe by giving him an OTG other than his super, that way he could pair with more characters and still build enough bar to be meter efficient. I think he was designed around having to chip away at people so they should be killable for 1 bar or 2 if he's built up some bar from playing neutral himself, but in the matchups he loses he gets rushed down and if he managed to get a hit in that situation it's rough for him to kill, and he needs resets/TACs/snaps to make the most of it.
@@SilverChariotx Vajra really helps Joe out. You're right in that he can't do much but super, but Joe is excellent at flooding the bottom portion of the screen, so when people get above that he needs help controlling the air. Vajra does that and it often knocks them down into his vooms for more damage/meter, and allows him to pressure on wakeup, run away or mix them up. He also has multi-hitting moves like j.H and I've seen that used plus some other buttons to combo Vajra before it knocks them down. Basically though it's aerial control. The only player of this duo I've ever seen is HowToRead, if you look up his footage from UK/EU tournaments you'll see it in action. 👍
Sorry I get wrapped up in terms sometimes! "99" means at 99 seconds, so the start of the round. Wolvy has a few tools which make him dangerous at the start, namely, throw, st.L, jump dive kick (which will also throw you if you're in the air) and then layers and layers of extra things with option selects and assist calls.
@@SpartanThrone thanks for your answer man! I've been thinking of doing a team of Wolverine,Dante,Haggar, do you think I could work? Or would there be any big downsides to a team with this comp?
@@pollepollepolle222 that works yep, both assists help Wolvy convert and extend, both are strong assists too. Main issue is lack of horizontal coverage (eg. Plasma beam from doom). Can be hard to get in because of that!
So looking back, where would you move Cap and Chun on re-inspection? Would you ever take a look at Super Skrull again, I feel he's a tad bit low, but still thereabouts. I'd probably put Cap behind Trish but in front of storm; Chun right behind Haggar; and then Skrull behind Frank West. My logic being characters like Chun, Haggar, Skrull and Frank kinda fall into the same camp where "specific teams" really have them excel but everybody above them in the tier list don't need that specific team comp to succeed, but you're more than welcome to poke holes into my argument because there might be exceptions to what i'm thinking,
That's actually from Zelda Breath of the Wild! Can't recall if it's Hateno village or Kakariko village, but I think it's one of them. Music in that game is an entire vibe.
Since Vanilla I have played Morrigan and I told so many people Morrigan is by far the best point. Only to be laughed at and then 2011 happened and everyone is like it's zero now. More than a decade later, here we are. I loved using Morrigan since Darkstalkers so getting to whip everyone's @$$ with bullet hell is satisfying for someone who has been told at local game tournaments that Morrigan is average tier. Oh how the times have changed. Morrigan May Cry is the best team and has been my favorite team since 2011 (with Vergil who is 2nd favorite character ever)
so I want to ask a question, if you didn't have an S+ tier, would Doctor Doom be a high A-tier? or a low S-tier? Edit: I'm not playing him if he's at the top of A tier, or anywhere in S tier, if he's anywhere between those two spots, it's back to Iron man or Dante anchor
@@JAZtheGamer9000 if I didn't have an S+ tier I would have an extra tier at the bottom and the list would be the same 😂 I'm planning to make another list sometime soon so who knows what will happen with that. Anyway, most importantly don't pay too much attention to tier lists. If you like a character then enjoy them for their unique qualities, not what letter a community allocates to them 👍
@@SpartanThrone First off, I have the perfect name for the tier at the bottom: Hsien-Ko! Second off, I get it, I don't care that much about tier lists, I main Zato in strive for crying out loud, I couldn't care less how weak a character is! It's just that I saw Mothman's 2024 tier list and that one had Doom in Upper(?) tier so I just want to know if Doom is still top-tier.
@@JAZtheGamer9000 he's Def top tier. But his top tierness is his support strength. Then his solo damage and conversions and mixups being better than most, but not incredible.
Loving all the good knowledge here. I have a question for anyone who might know, what's the music from? It's absolutely amazing. That music + Spartan speaking knowledge + Marvel 3 practice = some real therapy for me.
I'm honestly clueless on the mods, I've only seen combos and barely seen or played them. That said, from the little that I've seen Cyclops I know he has a great range of tools and really meter efficient combos, I think (and again this is with really limited knowledge) that he'd end up in S pretty easily, depending on his real depth possibly S+
@OverloadMindset ruclips.net/video/sWtEYPva4A0/видео.htmlsi=Qxrq5-6l0GGnP_Dx This one or one like it might be the one! I've def sunk 100 hours into this vid lmao
We reach the same 5, just a different order apart from Magneto. Won't argue about Zero vs Morrigan placement, but in your opinion Art what is keeping Jean at number 3 for you when Morrigan at number 2 (or 1) is so able to counter her?
@@SpartanThrone I think even with all the counters available against Phoenix her presence alone changes the whole dynamic of how matches are played. When a player is skilled enough like Ryan LV or champ, you can choose how to die and avoid being placed in certain situations like soul drains or command grabs. The fact that even regular Phoenix is a complete character ensures you don’t always have to bank on 5 bars to make a comeback.
@@TheArtiztikk those are good points certainly, and we're only talking about 2 places difference here. For me I've seen enough setups from Morrigan to get drains, to get them tagging from Vergil or DHCing from him, or DHCing from Doom, or TACs, it's a bit mad. What Jason showed me this year opened my eyes a bit with how little Phoenix health he needs left to squeeze a drain in before she pops, it's actually hilarious. But anyway I def take your points on that, especially her viability as just Jean.
@@SpartanThrone The main problem with that is that only one person is doing those setups, until it becomes more mainstream we’re gonna have to keep dealing with her sadly. I thought about playing a vergil morrigan strider team just for that matchup however.
@@TheArtiztikk that team sounds skank. But yeah in reality I wanna see the other Morrigans get that stuff down and wreck shop with it, it's too broke. Doesn't change the 'theory' / tier list side of it at all of course, but certainly would shape up public opinion. That said, maybe Morrigans don't want to do it, maybe if they did they would be unable to lie to themselves any more about their character being 2nd to Zero...
Hey bud thanks for such a recent in depth tier list, I randomly just got this game mainly cuz I heard ratio tournaments are still sometimes held and I'm looking forward to cooking with some funky trios. 💪🏼 (With Hsien♥)
Not necessarily. Rocket has 2 great assists in spitfire twice and log trap (pendulum) and usually you would have him 3rd or 2nd. You can play heavy zoning if you want but people play things like Thor, Captain America, Magneto, Vergil, Hulk etc on point. Who are you wanting to play besides him?
@@SpartanThrone Thank you for the suggestions! I main Pikachu in smash and I’ve been messing around with Leo in GGS and Mika in UNIB on a hit box recently. Cap I think would be a neat point and maybe a Doom assist but I feel a little bad about having no Capcom characters on the team. Maybe an Amy anchor unless that means the team is made of paper? I’m looking for a character that can pick their moment, I believe. It’s difficult to explain- transferring from smash play styles to traditional fighting game play styles. I think Pikachu is almost the opposite shoto to Mario though. Could be completely wrong.
@@Oaktales64 ha I've not played any of Smash or GG or UNIB tbh. Cap is good at picking spots. Cap/Doom/Rocket is a good team. Lots of damage for cap from the available assists. I'd recommend missiles with either of Rocket's good assists. Rocket/Doom/Ammy sounds super frustrating to play against cause RR is such a tricky little guy to fight. Any other chars you like?
@SpartanThrone preesh. It was a nice selection. Also, I saw a comment said that you were some kind of Iron Fist hotshot. Can't wait to see! I run Cap and IF, so I'm always excited to see them get some play:D
i have 3 teams, and pheonix is the lead on my main team. is honestly so crazy how good pheonix is, and how easy for me it is to use and such. maybe im always playign against people that are bad at the game, but then again, he is so broken, especally once i get all of my evidence, its such a shame to see him on c tier Edit even tho this was made a few minutes ago, most of my characters are c and b (team 1: nick dante and vergil, team 2: felicia chris and tron, and team 3: frank chun li and arthur) and yet, my brother, who has played this game for years before me complains about my teams because they are a bit crazy when i do good. then again, i havent been around for the true online experience becase i only started playig recently, when the game is basically dead
Phoenix Wright isn't *bad* bad... He's got stuff that works! It's just that most of the cast has stuff that works... more! Glad you're having fun with him and the game 👍 experimenting with teams in training mode is still to this day so fun!
I'd rate him probably in the same place. He'd just be doing less damage in most team setups, but that just means he'd be coming down to the level of other characters and having to use a TAC, or alternatively resetting, and he's so good that his resets are stronger than most characters too. He can definitely still work without LL's, in fact there exist other strong options if you chose not to LL; ruclips.net/video/bjlivnK6edo/видео.html But honestly LL's are not that hard to learn if your question comes from a place of having difficulty hitting them. In case you didn't see it here is my tutorial for them, I promise if you take it slow and give it a week or so of nightly practise you'll have them down: ruclips.net/video/XABdq4b7zDs/видео.html
@@SpartanThrone Thank you so much for the reply! I saw the tutorial and i am trying to learn it, but it is hard :( , i still can't get the blaster in time for the 1st loop :(
@@thekiseki1 it takes practise, you're doing good if you have got that far. Just a couple more steps and you'll get there. Something about it will click for you if you keep at it!
Zero can kill 800k health characters without meter, so even if u cant do LL, u can just do rekkouha at the end of the 800k damage combo and u would kill the majority of the cast except if u fight KBR
I don't! Not since about 2019 when most players migrated over parsec through PC. Where abouts you from? You have any access to even a low spec pc or laptop? Quite often parsec's low requirements are really convenient across devices that couldn't directly run Marvel itself.
Accounting for differences with my own opinion, it's crazy to realize that you can do something cool with every character in this game - except She-Hulk, who is the only fighter on this 50-man roster who I have never seen accomplish anything impressive in Marvel 3's entire tenure. It's wild to realize that RNG Wright and friggin' low tier poster child Hsien-ko have more going on in 2023 than her.
You are right, the versatility and flexibility of the system and characters is something I wish more games could employ. She Hulk used to be semi decent in Vanilla! Team EG plus Combofiend were wreaking havoc with her (tho she was better then, it was still most their skill tbh), but you should check that out!
@@SpartanThroneInteresting. I do recall hearing that she used to be better. I remembered one modern She-Hulk win, but it's modded-only. Red She-Hulk has Sol Badguy's Dragon Install with matching specials, and it's still the funniest thing I've seen from Marvel modding.
Thanks for the video. I found it randomly but enjoyed listening to it. I agree with all of this for the most part, but being unable touch the game for unfortunately the better part of a decade means it's *super* weird to see him so high given all the things wrong with him. Huh. So that one I can't really comment on. (I was also rather confused by what you meant by "99", but I got the overall gist of things. I am assuming you meant round start, correct?) Speaking of "balanced" happy accidents, it's also rather funny that your bottom two characters are both the lawyer characters for each company *and* that the (supposedly) non-gimmick one is the worst one. Oh well. At least She-Hulk's theme song is good. Speaking of Phoenix Wright and bottom two though, like Hsien-ko (who I was expecting to be bottom one), I think I would move him over one left space and put him above poor Ryu honestly. Sure, Mr. Wright is a gimmick character who is at the mercy of RNG, but he at least doesn't (constantly) need meter to become good, stays meaningfully buffed as an assist in Turnabout Mode if you tag him out, *and* has unique things going for (and against) him unlike poor Ryu. Additionally, despite his overall lack of mix-ups by himself without spending a bar, Turnabout Mode gives Phoenix Wright access to massive damage *and* one of the overpowered Lv. 3 supers in the game that basically murders a character if they so much as twitch. He can also set-up self-unblockables even if the most potent thing he can do outside of Turnabout Mode with those are generally use it to get into Turnabout Mode. Still, that's better than poor Ryu whose only good things are like...a beam super that can OTG if used in the air *and* not in Denjin IIRC, two invincible specials that are risky as hell, and the worst install in the game that for some gods' forsaken reasons runs out far too quickly *and* drains his health. So, yeah, I honestly think Phoenix Wright is better than Ryu. (And I'm almost tempted to say Tron too since honestly forgot she was even in this game shamefully enough, but Tron is likely better than Mr. Wright.) Finally, I am rather curious about your mention of Team Chris/Wesker/Akuma as someone who used to play the RE characters but with Dormammu. The RE characters unfortunately all suck at dealing with super jump height, and Akuma unfortunately doesn't seem to remedy that. (In a cruel irony, Nemesis is arguably the best RE character overall at dealing with that space but unfortunately the worst RE character overall.) So, yeah, curious if you were actually saying it could be viable or just that it wouldn't be an outright trash compensation like, uh, Felicia/Nemesis/Ryu or something.
Yo! YT has been weird with showing me comments recently, missed this before! Thanks for watching 👍 yeah on your last point LivinLegend26 plays that RE team, he's really strong with it. It of course shows the potential of the team, but also shows the expertise and experience that LL has, go check him out if you haven't already. He has lots of footage from different majors, and lots of TNS appearances!
@@brick-1234-d6w number of things. 1) MODOK synergizes very well with MorriJean which is a top shell, but general strong synergy with all the top tiers 2) he's got the best round start option/guaranteed escape 3) his mobility is really good and has a very high skill ceiling which lets him do dumb stuff 4) unblockable setups 5) jamming bomb snaps are seriously good. Any other char snapping still needs to score 4 hits, but MODOK hitting a jamming bomb snap skews it heavily in his favour 6) dorito/shield is stupid, like, really stupid 7) strong and ambiguous mixups both solo and assisted 8) great variety of normals and specials, serving unique purposes
Hmmm watching it back I'm not sure I'm happy with my cap placing, maybe some others, but I did say I would look at chun again at the end and I never did! (But yesssss change my mind)
@@SpartanThrone yeeee I was thinking about reminding you in chat but it was 3 hours in and late af xD tbf I think it’s only order anyway and the topic is bound to be a bit subjective
Hey there Sparty. So I recently watch binged all the sparty tech stuff again while at work. I do my shit listen to your wisdom it’s great. But now I am through all multiple times,I NEED more like im getting shivers and fever symptoms frrrr pls help
@@SpartanThrone lovely!!! Tbf the most recent 30 minute banger isn’t older than 2 weeks, so slacking might put it a bit harsh even if it was dorm centric. I particularly enjoy the punish videos, anti character videos and general theory and game talk like the Tier list here. Thank you for all the good content you already put out! EUs champ 💪🏼💪🏼
i dont play grapplers much but i see so much potential in thor. thor is a menace up close, and hes great lame, as far as grapplers are concerned. imho, the problem with thor is thor players. why cant thor be as good as haggar? i think haggar players just know how to block better because thor players are too busy getting hit trying to fly around like theyre magneto or something. a smart thor is A teir and a genius thor is S teir imho. you just gotta have some genius modok / firebrand lab monsters on the character to show how worthy of that title he really is.
Haggar is just better defensively. Lariat means you can't pressure Vs him as easily as you can Vs Thor. Haggar also has better buttons and grounded strings and mixups. Thor has to get airborne to make the most of his toolset. So it's more that the chars just have defensive differences rather than the players. Thor's good, but he's a tad out classed as most things he does by other chars. He's strong when supported well and his health is an issue for a lot of characters so you get more chances than with some other chars, but he's still less able to force himself upon the opponent than he could really do with being able to do.
The one tier list to not have Hisen-ko be bottom 1. But honestly having She Hulk be worse than Phoenix Wright is a crime. She Hulk’s supers are okay; and she has some movement. Phoenix Wright doesn’t have anything if he doesn’t get lucky.
That's commitment! If it does pique your interest, it's both one of the most enjoyable training mode games while also a game that is easy to learn (hard to master). So getting it cheap and messing about with it in training to learn some combos is a nice step before trying to learn a bit and having a go with some other beginners!
Top Tier Dark Phoenix Morrigan Vergil Zero Magneto Phoenix High Tier Doctor Doom Dormmamu Dante C. Viper M.O.D.O.K Firebrand Nova Spencer Strider Hiryu Upper Mid Tier Wolverine Hulk Deadpool Wesker Ammatarsu Sentinel Mid Tier Rocket Racoon Shuma-Gorath Haggar Viewtiful Joe Akuma Trish Doctor Strange Spiderman Hawkeye Storm Frank West Taskmaster Chun-Li Low Tier Chris Redfield Captain America Super Skrull Iron-Man Felicia X-23 Arthur Thor Bottom Tier Ghost Rider Phoenix Wright Ironfist Jill Nemesis Tron Bonne Ryu H Sienko Worst Tier She Hulk
@@SpartanThrone I graded Jenny harder because I loved the character the way she was in Original Marvel vs. Capcom 3. But they nerfed this average and balanced Mid Tier character into the ground in UMvC3. I never fell out of love with a character faster. You can't deny that She Hulk is the worst character.
@@SpartanThrone Fair enough, that's a reasonable take. I learned him as a point character first. The amount Lythero got scrubbed out by me bc Mr Wright is usless against him is unreal. Ran him Mags\Vergil so you were stuck fighting one of the Anchor.
@@longdong9885 ohhhh skrull doesn't care if you're quadruple jumping around throwing voomerangs I bet that's a fun matchup 🤣 so did you ever come over for Hyperspotting?
Morrigan should be S, not S+. She's not really very strong without Doom. I don't think you can be S+ when you are tethered that hard to another character. Doom on the other hand should be S+. He's has some bad matches, but he is the best utility/assist character in the game and he's not a bad anchor either. If Doom is not currently on your team, your team will automatically better with him irrespective of what that team is.
I appreciate your comment, thanks for taking the time, that's a spicy take however! Morrigan is exceptional with Doom yes. Also with Phoenix. Supports the other top tiers like no other while herself also having not a single bad matchup Vs anyone else. If I accept your suggestion that she's only good with Doom, then her liking doom's support isn't a bad thing. If missiles make her top 1, then play her with Doom every time and she's top 1. (There's much more to it of course, and she's more than just morrigan/missiles). If supported properly she's legitimately stronger outright than every other character when they too are supported properly, except for Zero who people might argue about, but in my opinion the way she invalidates Phoenix gives her the edge. I definitely value support (see all of the other support chars placing controversially high on my list), but Doom's got some match up issues Vs anyone good and while I praise his support highest of all, I like to separate him from the top 5 because of his issues and how he is the natural anchor because he is the least threatening of any of his partners on top tier teams. Lots to it though, and everyone looks at the game differently.
Granted there's always room for reconsideration! Sometimes you make a list like this and you felt one way at the time etc etc. I'm interested to know what you think though, where would you put him do you think?
@@SpartanThrone I agree you're not always gonna feel the same way. Like now I actually think caps placement is fine I personally would just put x-23 behind him and taskmaster. They're more consistent and x-23's gimmick is super team specific and is over once anyone on the team dies or the character that has to do the infinite's assist was used(on hit).
Viper should be A tier... I'm sorry, if you're 10 years into the game and you still are that theory character, you don't deserve to be considered S tier.
i respect your opinion 1st of all but akuma in A tier is kind of a joke , at worst akuma is S and can easily be in S+ , ok health good mobility, good supers , good mix ups good setups good everything , literally good in everything
He has the 2nd lowest health in the game. Mobility is tied to specials that leave him vulnerable. Good mixups, good setups, good damage etc I give you But that's what they are... Good. Good is mid tier in a game where many more characters are great or godlike.
Well, two years ago I had made a list too. ruclips.net/video/edJQ6Xt5njw/видео.html&ab_channel=DkingArcade But now, I agree more with your list. For me the best three characters of this game, always will be 'Morrigan, Vergil and Zero'. They need a special tier kkkkk
I think your argument about Vergil being better than Phoenix has a problem in that in those situations where she is getting blown up by Morrigan or whoever else, she has to get hit for that to happen and in the same situation if vergil is hit, he's just dead without any specific setup. She's generally better at avoiding getting hit due to her air options. I think you could still argue it on the basis of his support value and flexibility being much better. With him being viable in all positions/tons of teams and ridiculous dhcs
Are you sure it's volatile? Marvel is actually very stable. Top chars are really consistent across tournaments and tier lists. Those top 5 especially are one of the few things the vast majority of the community agrees on (tho not the exact order).
@@SpartanThrone That describes what I would consider an S tier. Characters that very much define and even shift the meta around them, but not as an absolute. Especially when X-Factor exists and single mistakes can flip matches. Ultimately probably not a huge point of disagreement.
...that's pretty much what I said about it in the video I made specifically on that subject (that if it did become a thing that was happening at high level events and making grand finals a question of who grabs who, then the community would probably ban it). It's so droppable tho it won't come to fruition anyway.
This man called his shot. Said "get me to the US and I'll show people what's up with Iron Fist" then went and did just that. Excellent showing at Evo!
Yep
Love that this tier list actually follows a normal distribution. Top 3 is still unanimous to be Zero/Morrigan/Vergil; I'm not surprised. I would switch Phoenix with Doom in S+ just by sheer fact that Doom gets along with virtually any team in the game while Phoenix selfishly needs to have a team built around her. Yes, she changes the way the opponent plays but she also changes the way you play as well.
I feel like people also vastly overestimate Phoenix too. The skill level of the game has progressed so far that a lot of players know what the gameplan for her is. With how much the usage of meter has been optimized, Phoenix wants a team that conserves it a ton.
Top 3 is not unanimous with Vergil. He ranges from 3-6
@@paulakroy2635 who would the 3rd be if Vergil isn’t?
@@tehmaimed Phoniex, magneto
I guess it depends on how you see the game. You either prioritize the power of Phoenix or the support of Doom
Something to keep in mind when talking about how crowded the tier list seems, this is essentially what all tier lists should look like. They should be comparative to the rest of the roster, like a bell curve. The further each tier gets from the center, the less there should be, with A being the starting point for that
I think Cap is a little low but the list is fantastic
I feel bad about Cap, is said to Jaeger before I feel a little unhappy with how I placed Cap. Like, I know he doesn't comfortably win Vs the better chars, even the zoning chars he is designed to have counters for, but it does keep him in those matches, and he has the damage to capitalise on the chances he gets... Maybe something I'll review next time!
Knowing a bit more about maths than I do about fighting games I would say that not all games will have a normal distribution of viability. So, I wouldn’t expect them all to have a bell curve shape. I would expect the set of fighting games measured by relative balance of characters to resemble something like a normal bell curve. But in that case there have to be a significant number fighting games that exist on the edges (about 40%, representing the top 20% and bottom 20%) of a normal distribution of relative game balance where characters are skewed very weak or very strong.
Yeah the thing that puts Morrigan at #1 for me is Dark Harmonizer. Not only does it enable some of the scummiest and most broken strategies in the game, but if things go south and your point dies, Morrigan comes in with all that bar to abuse with Astral Vision. She has the only assist that synergizes with herself and sets up her own win condition.
That assist man. It's the only assist that both does nothing in neutral and also does everything, at least for the characters that can stall the neutral and also synergise with a character that can use the meter as well as Morrigan. Bit of a joke tbh haha
@@SpartanThrone Not to mention just how safe it is to call in neutral, by the time your opponent notices it has been called its ready to use again.
Morrigan also uniquely builds meter whilst using an install super. With soul drain, she prevent dark Phoenix without an assist.
@@AKeNeN she does, but she's not the only one to build meter during her install. Firebrand does and I'm pretty sure Arthur does too, plus Ryu, and one or two more? Hsien Ko doesn't in gold, zero, Dante, Vergil... But I think everyone else's does build meter still 🤔
Her anti phoenix stuff is ridiculously applicable tho!
@stop censorship Amaterasu also has a meter build assist like Frank and Morrigan. However the frame data is worse for Frank and Ammy, I believe their assists both have startup. Also their assists are attached to much worse characters.
Taskmaster can also get unblockables off Dormammu assist, and Taskmaster has a lot of new combos/extensions in 2023 that upped his damage in relevant ways, IMO.
New ones? Oh link me up show me the new stuff
@@SpartanThrone Got you, fam.
Here's my entire Marvel 3 tech playlist:
ruclips.net/p/PLsQmrb1ohhUBxyOgzUAPJ1MZOb6pxmBBs
But the Taskmaster highlights are as follows:
ruclips.net/video/ovpQ9pNwK0k/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/kRfGvfOkdOY/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/7bkbT9F4bfg/видео.html
Taskmaster can now SOLO self OTG with arrow loops, up to 3 or even 4 times on certain characters with good execution. These solo loops each add about 80-100k damage and ramp up Taskmaster's already quite good meter build to genuinely ridiculous levels, IMO. I think he is a character who has required years of labbing and exploration for his gameplan to fully crystalize and mature, and now, in late 2022-2023, there's so much new combos, setups, tech, that I think a lot of players are looking him over even more, their perception of him still tied to early UMVC3 meta, IMO
I don’t know if my opinion is even valid (I’m high beginner at best) but task is just that character where he’s just good at everything. His are decent and they can go in a variety of angles, shield skill is amazing at blowing through projectiles, he has great normals, and can even be a great damage engine. Granted that’s also his main weakness, but the sheer amount of things he can do makes him great. Though as I said before, I probably don’t know wtf I’m talking about
S+ is the tier for: If you have at least 2 of these on your team you are not an ethical human being
Lmao... we call em bullies n sadists
interesting how none of the tournament viable teams have 3 s+ chars on them
@@aclonymousBecause teambuilding is still a vital part of the game. You can't just slap phoenix on any time because you have to specifically build a team around her.
Genuinely love how much you mention characters being tournament friendly, something a lot of people don't/never talked about.
Best tier list breakdown for this game that I've ever seen. It's incredible that Jwong and KBR won evo with the teams that they had. The first to 3 format makes a lot of lower than S characters viable.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for the kind words! The viability of a lot of the cast really makes Marvel something special.
Great work! I wonder what the UMVC3 EX tier list would be if it had a meta…
Give me 10 years... brb
@@SpartanThrone I’ll be waiting patiently lol
Interesting list! If I had to pick a big gripe, i'd say Doom should be right behind phoenix. Doom is in 98% of every top 8 since the game came out (thats over 10 years) for a reason: His support is too damn good, and no one else will ever come close no matter how much new tech is discovered in the next 10 years imo
Great video! Also, you forgot to mention Spidey's anti phoenix tech. I think setting up Spidey's tech is the easiest to do compared to the other characters that have similar anti phoenix tech (except for Morrigan who has the best anti phoenix tech)
Yo Monix thanks for saying so, is Spidey's so easy? Cause he doesn't struggle as much as some of the others / doesn't need to level up first? Do you find yourself getting to use it often, because Spidey is on point?
@@SpartanThrone Spidey's web-throw move is a cinematic, so even when Phoenix has no health, she won't pop from the web-throw until she touches the floor. This is an easy set up for Maximum Spider super > xfactor cancel > UWT super, or 2H > UWT super after web-throw.
I try to use the tech as often as I can, but in my case I also have the option for Dante TAC timer scams if the situation warrants it. Since MOST Phoenix players will break the side TAC, I feel I would have a better chance landing an up or down TAC and running down the time with the timer scam infinite versus snapping in Phoenix and getting another clean hit on her.
Top 1 is Morrigan for sure.
Shoto moveset + Fly/unfly cancel + Astral Vision automatically puts her in top 3 on paper alone; the rest of her kit, and more importantly the ceiling on her puts her at top 1. It's 2023 and only just last year did we really start to see Soul Drain combos being landed in tournament play on a relatively somewhat consistent basis (when actually even attempted, which is still fairly rare), Dark Harmonizer has been enabling broken strats forever, and hell ChrisG dominated marvel 3's most active era without actually using half of that stuff.
The soul drain stuff is nuts. Even if they drop it, the benefit is so huge, you just aren't coming back often enough Vs a morrigan who had just done like 60% to 80% of your health while stealing your meter. It's so outrageously in her favour even if she doesn't kill, hell you could argue it's better if she doesn't kill because she either chips your point char or lets you hang yourself by tagging out or spending the little bar you have left for a tac, or even better still if she forces your XF
@@SpartanThroneEven though the meter drain combos are ridiculously difficult, I'm still kinda surprised they weren't attempted earlier in UMvC3's history just because of how ridiculously rewarding they are.
You explain your thoughts on characters really well, super interesting to listen to. Love the content!
Glad you think so, it's always hard to imagine how things like this might come across. Thanks for the kind words 😃
TBH, iheartjustice put the Respect to Phoenix Wright more than any low tier because the moment he got Turnabout, this is effectively X-Factor Lv3 for him because for some weird ass reason, PW got Lv3 X-factor damage regardless of which X-Factor he was in. PW Turnabout mode is like when Zappa got Raou.
I❤️Justice certainly is ridiculous.
PW still very very bad tho 🤣🤣🤣 justice is just nuts
Aw, I was hoping Glass would mention me with Deadpool, Taskmaster and Captain America damage. Dorkasaurus already explained pretty much everything for Taskmaster, so I'll explain for Captain America. You can combo from his forward throw solo on certain body types, namely MODOK and Rocket Raccoon. When it comes to zoning, I tend to use his shield like a yo-yo instead of a Frisbee or boomerang. Do what I call Instant Air Shield Slashes so Cap lands much sooner, then (plink) backdash to prolong the shield's return to punish overzealous opponents. Long story short, those Instant Air Shield Slashes yield quite substantial damage in the corner. With Deadpool, I'm geared more towards damage than resets, my combos contain a lot of Quick Works. To add one thing to Dorkasaurus' comment, depending on the body shape and size, you can do a lot more damage; north of one million damage with one meter.
His corner stuff looks so cool 🤩
@@SpartanThrone ruclips.net/video/lzFbuqASxrM/видео.html
Ryu should be S tier because he is my best character
I truthfully respect this list for not only how detailed it is but also the acknowledgment of balance due to how cracked this game is.
Matchups change in terms of shells, and certain things are weird enough to just thrash you.
The knowledge, respect, and awareness as you ranked the middle characters is refreshimg to see, and I fully agree, you could be running a team defining nightmare like
Vergil/Doom/Strider has almost all the knowledge in stone and just gets deleted by a better/more eccentric/loyalist who knows hard counters.
Thor/23/Ironman be a goofy as team, but this squad will run your lights out behind the right pilot.
Thanks, KjMccloud, for the 11 years of Marvel abuse and teaching me Vergil on point struggles against health pools.
I am looking forward to the team shells or someone to validate me like DeadXPride with his godlike pressure to tell me this is possible 🤣
Keep it up, Sparty, your oration skills and quit wit make it a pleasure to watch your knowledge of a game built for masochists still dying to the B tier.
Wow such kind words, thank you for the feedback I appreciate the honesty 😊😄 I'll be sure to finish my prep for either the shells or the teams tier list soon enough!
That was an awesome watch. Great hearing your explanations and thoughts, really an inside view in how you view the game. Keep it up with the content mate
Fucked up part of firebrand is wall cling fireball is scary unless you're playing flight/small characters
I might hate Firebrand more than any other character honestly 🤔
I would like to see a tournament where Zero and Morrigan are banned. Just them.
Hehe, yeah closest I've seen to that is either Ratio tournaments, but also for our EU stuff we do we have done character ban tourneys with some different and crazy rules.
Then nova Spencer magneto becomes the best shell.
I wouldn't, because that doesn't you learn anything.
Good work keeping your promise at 03:03:40 "fly me to the US and i'll make [Iron Fist] shine", shine on you crazy diamond 😄
I forget I say these things very easily 😅🤣
excellent list and the way you explain each character is really well put. amazing job man
Poor Ryu. You only see ABCABC combos for Ryu because people who play Ryu have still been leaving Denjin untapped. I wish I could put my knowledge of Ryu into a top player to show him off.
It's cool seeing what you come up with for him, it's just the reward of playing him isn't so unapparent that it's hard to justify playing him. Ray and DxP are the only two tiptop players who've put time into him and it's the same old thing of... He's part of a team so it's not just Ryu, but it's also that he's being piloted by someone who is better than the opponent in most cases.
I did mention his Denjin stuff, but the issue for him is his low meter build, tough conversions on higher air confirms, and that he can only spend bar when he throws, meaning he ends up with low meter and having to spend more. Meanwhile his neutral tools are limited, so most chars in the game have him at a disadvantage in most situations.
He's Def a fun character but while he's Ryu, he's not the Ryu of this game 🥲 he could really do with a meterless OTG (that doesn't lead to an infinite with his HKD sweep), and perhaps some better properties on his tatsu, hadoken and Denjin.
What changes would you give him?
@@SpartanThrone His meter build in Denjin is respectable but again, that requires a bar to do that, haha. Hopefully when I can play people in 2024, and can gain match experience, I'll be able to show him off a bit to what I think is his top potential.
OTG would be nice but I think what I care about more than that is altering his SRK a bit to cause more of a knock down similar o his Battle for the Grid version. This would make Shoryuken canceled into Denjin actually worth it and the combo routes would be insane. So many characters in this game can combo from their SRKs but not Ryu. Denjin lasting longer and not draining red health would be sick and maybe an aimable Shin Hadoken if not OTG on his Shin Tastu.
How would you buff the assists of characters that have 0 or almost no support value otherwise?
Blimey, big question.
A couple that come to mind would be Phoenix Wright, he should definitely have some evidence based assists... But in keeping with his design they'd probably make it like Dorm's Liberation assist where he needs to get the evidence on point first. Alternatively he could have Maya Shield as an assist, that would be similar to MODOK Shield assist but massive for his utility in support.
I kinda wish Chris had Flame Grenade as and assist or possibly a full Flame Thrower, but really think something like Magnum assist would be more realistic. BOOM.
Same for Wesker, horizontal gunshot assist would be nice.
If Deadpool had a low guns assist that would be nuts.
Wolvy could really do with H Berserker Barrage, or his OTG move hitting low like it does on point.
Don't even know what I'd give Jill, where's Corky at?
Viper should def have Eye Beam, orrrrrr it'd be really cool if she had EX versions of her assists that cost meter to call, EX Seismo or EX Thunder Knuckle, both would be really cool.
Any other characters you might have been thinking of?
Generally I would want a variety in assists, while getting more beam equivalent/alternatives because they make characters so much more viable in the 2nd or last spot.
@@SpartanThrone I was gonna say maybe it would make more characters viable if assists had assist exclusive properties, for example make Viewtiful Joe's Groovy Uppercut or Ryu's shoryuken assist have some invincibility on startup. Or maybe make Vjoe's Voomerang assist be a charged one that hits OTG so it can be a sort of alternative to Hidden Missiles. Spider-Man's web ball assist could force a restand making him an alternative to Spencer. Super Skrull with a tracking Meteor Smash assist could be similar to Vajra as well. Maybe even make Hsien-Ko's item toss assist force a stun. Also you might hate me for saying this but imagine if Firebrand's unblockable demon missile were an assist (with the same long startup time)
@@SilverChariotx oh wow, that last bit, I didn't realise I was talking to a maniac 🤣
Do you happen to have a matchup chart for wolverine on point?
My friend plays wolverine/doom/vergil and is looking to see what you think he does well against and what he does bad against.
I don't. Matchups are so loose in this game because point wolverine could mean 10 different teams, and even when you say "Wolvy/doom/Vergil does well against point X or Y", that changes when they are backed by 2 chars or even just when the assist changes.
I think Magneto is a rough matchup for Wolvy for example with Wolvy/Dorm/Iron Fist. But Angelic thinks it's like even or better for Wolvy and he plays 2 of the same characters (Wolvy/Dorm/Shuma). So matchup charts are not really practical to make in this game.
@@SpartanThrone Alright. Would it be possible to get a rough idea considering optimal scenarios against wolverine with doom laser specifically? He thinks Zero is the worst followed by morrigan, nova, spencer, phoenix, magneto, dante, doom in no specific order. Hes trying to find a character he can use to counter the bad matchups wolverine has.
@@agentofforce3467 he does 'lose' to most of those, but beats Dante and Doom due to his quicker buttons and mobility.
We're talking small margins in some cases but Wolvy is really reliant on assists to get him in Vs those other characters who have their own strong projectile tools in addition to their assists that enhance them.
3:03:36 hits different now
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
seeing this after evo and you gas up iron fist is great lol
Wondering if you would separate anchor Vergil and point Vergil into separate placements if that makes sense
I wouldn't within this. This list assumes their best placement mostly. Though I definitely rate that differently and will one day put out different lists for point/mid/anchor!
All I see here is that you should play Mag/Dorm/Dante ;)
If you had to buff Viewtiful Joe what changes would you make to him and his assists and why? I think the fully charged voomerang would make for a better assist than the default one.
Also I am curious as to how Strider is a good partner for him considering he doesn't have a lot of OTG options
I think a fully character voomerang assist would be so broke looooool I'm not having fun in my head with that idea. Erm, honestly hard to say, I'd probably only change his ability to extend combos himself, maybe by giving him an OTG other than his super, that way he could pair with more characters and still build enough bar to be meter efficient. I think he was designed around having to chip away at people so they should be killable for 1 bar or 2 if he's built up some bar from playing neutral himself, but in the matchups he loses he gets rushed down and if he managed to get a hit in that situation it's rough for him to kill, and he needs resets/TACs/snaps to make the most of it.
@@SilverChariotx Vajra really helps Joe out. You're right in that he can't do much but super, but Joe is excellent at flooding the bottom portion of the screen, so when people get above that he needs help controlling the air. Vajra does that and it often knocks them down into his vooms for more damage/meter, and allows him to pressure on wakeup, run away or mix them up. He also has multi-hitting moves like j.H and I've seen that used plus some other buttons to combo Vajra before it knocks them down. Basically though it's aerial control. The only player of this duo I've ever seen is HowToRead, if you look up his footage from UK/EU tournaments you'll see it in action. 👍
1:47:51 what is a 'ninety nine'? and how is wolverine's extra special?
Sorry I get wrapped up in terms sometimes! "99" means at 99 seconds, so the start of the round. Wolvy has a few tools which make him dangerous at the start, namely, throw, st.L, jump dive kick (which will also throw you if you're in the air) and then layers and layers of extra things with option selects and assist calls.
@@SpartanThrone thanks for your answer man! I've been thinking of doing a team of Wolverine,Dante,Haggar, do you think I could work? Or would there be any big downsides to a team with this comp?
@@pollepollepolle222 that works yep, both assists help Wolvy convert and extend, both are strong assists too. Main issue is lack of horizontal coverage (eg. Plasma beam from doom). Can be hard to get in because of that!
So looking back, where would you move Cap and Chun on re-inspection? Would you ever take a look at Super Skrull again, I feel he's a tad bit low, but still thereabouts. I'd probably put Cap behind Trish but in front of storm; Chun right behind Haggar; and then Skrull behind Frank West. My logic being characters like Chun, Haggar, Skrull and Frank kinda fall into the same camp where "specific teams" really have them excel but everybody above them in the tier list don't need that specific team comp to succeed, but you're more than welcome to poke holes into my argument because there might be exceptions to what i'm thinking,
Valid tier list but with marvel it’s pretty hard to make a normal tier list. we need a point & anchor tier list then maybe a BFF tier list
Love this list, but god what RPG is this track from!? I feel like I can hear the text sound when I listen to it...
That's actually from Zelda Breath of the Wild! Can't recall if it's Hateno village or Kakariko village, but I think it's one of them. Music in that game is an entire vibe.
Since Vanilla I have played Morrigan and I told so many people Morrigan is by far the best point. Only to be laughed at and then 2011 happened and everyone is like it's zero now. More than a decade later, here we are. I loved using Morrigan since Darkstalkers so getting to whip everyone's @$$ with bullet hell is satisfying for someone who has been told at local game tournaments that Morrigan is average tier. Oh how the times have changed.
Morrigan May Cry is the best team and has been my favorite team since 2011 (with Vergil who is 2nd favorite character ever)
so I want to ask a question, if you didn't have an S+ tier, would Doctor Doom be a high A-tier? or a low S-tier?
Edit: I'm not playing him if he's at the top of A tier, or anywhere in S tier, if he's anywhere between those two spots, it's back to Iron man or Dante anchor
@@JAZtheGamer9000 if I didn't have an S+ tier I would have an extra tier at the bottom and the list would be the same 😂
I'm planning to make another list sometime soon so who knows what will happen with that.
Anyway, most importantly don't pay too much attention to tier lists. If you like a character then enjoy them for their unique qualities, not what letter a community allocates to them 👍
@@SpartanThrone First off, I have the perfect name for the tier at the bottom: Hsien-Ko! Second off, I get it, I don't care that much about tier lists, I main Zato in strive for crying out loud, I couldn't care less how weak a character is! It's just that I saw Mothman's 2024 tier list and that one had Doom in Upper(?) tier so I just want to know if Doom is still top-tier.
@@JAZtheGamer9000 he's Def top tier. But his top tierness is his support strength. Then his solo damage and conversions and mixups being better than most, but not incredible.
Loving all the good knowledge here. I have a question for anyone who might know, what's the music from? It's absolutely amazing. That music + Spartan speaking knowledge + Marvel 3 practice = some real therapy for me.
It's from Zelda Breath of the Wild. Think it's a mix of kakoriko village and lurelin village off the top of my head!
But also shout-outs to sticking a long video on in the background and rising marvel training mode. It's an absolute vibe.
Just in time for Evo! Good luck everyone.
I want to watch this man learn Iron Fist, Jill, Iron man, its a very hard but fun team
@@Cousinthinny this sounds like an absolutely horrendous experience 😂😂😂
@@SpartanThrone it could be implemented well if practiced
Never sleep on a sparty. Love your channel so much!
😁😁😁
Where would you rate the cyclops mod ?
I'm honestly clueless on the mods, I've only seen combos and barely seen or played them. That said, from the little that I've seen Cyclops I know he has a great range of tools and really meter efficient combos, I think (and again this is with really limited knowledge) that he'd end up in S pretty easily, depending on his real depth possibly S+
What’s the bgm this is pleasant 😅
@@OverloadMindset I'm always working with this stuff on in the background! It's a relaxing breath of the wild mix. If I find it later I'll post it!
@@SpartanThrone productivity hax boost i love it. Thank you good sir for blessing my ears
@OverloadMindset ruclips.net/video/sWtEYPva4A0/видео.htmlsi=Qxrq5-6l0GGnP_Dx
This one or one like it might be the one! I've def sunk 100 hours into this vid lmao
Great vid man! Good explanations for every char.
Yooooooo how you been Luke? Thanks for the kind words my man, hopefully we'll meet at some distant old-fgc-man event soon!
My top 5: Zero, Morrigan, Phoenix, mag, Vergil
We reach the same 5, just a different order apart from Magneto. Won't argue about Zero vs Morrigan placement, but in your opinion Art what is keeping Jean at number 3 for you when Morrigan at number 2 (or 1) is so able to counter her?
@@SpartanThrone I think even with all the counters available against Phoenix her presence alone changes the whole dynamic of how matches are played. When a player is skilled enough like Ryan LV or champ, you can choose how to die and avoid being placed in certain situations like soul drains or command grabs. The fact that even regular Phoenix is a complete character ensures you don’t always have to bank on 5 bars to make a comeback.
@@TheArtiztikk those are good points certainly, and we're only talking about 2 places difference here. For me I've seen enough setups from Morrigan to get drains, to get them tagging from Vergil or DHCing from him, or DHCing from Doom, or TACs, it's a bit mad. What Jason showed me this year opened my eyes a bit with how little Phoenix health he needs left to squeeze a drain in before she pops, it's actually hilarious.
But anyway I def take your points on that, especially her viability as just Jean.
@@SpartanThrone The main problem with that is that only one person is doing those setups, until it becomes more mainstream we’re gonna have to keep dealing with her sadly. I thought about playing a vergil morrigan strider team just for that matchup however.
@@TheArtiztikk that team sounds skank.
But yeah in reality I wanna see the other Morrigans get that stuff down and wreck shop with it, it's too broke. Doesn't change the 'theory' / tier list side of it at all of course, but certainly would shape up public opinion.
That said, maybe Morrigans don't want to do it, maybe if they did they would be unable to lie to themselves any more about their character being 2nd to Zero...
Hey bud thanks for such a recent in depth tier list, I randomly just got this game mainly cuz I heard ratio tournaments are still sometimes held and I'm looking forward to cooking with some funky trios. 💪🏼 (With Hsien♥)
you should add the biggest disclaimer to nemmys damage potential possible!
everyone knows its unpractical in a real match.
Everyone knows.
I want to play Rocket, does that mean I have to play a keep away team?
Not necessarily.
Rocket has 2 great assists in spitfire twice and log trap (pendulum) and usually you would have him 3rd or 2nd. You can play heavy zoning if you want but people play things like Thor, Captain America, Magneto, Vergil, Hulk etc on point.
Who are you wanting to play besides him?
@@SpartanThrone
Thank you for the suggestions! I main Pikachu in smash and I’ve been messing around with Leo in GGS and Mika in UNIB on a hit box recently.
Cap I think would be a neat point and maybe a Doom assist but I feel a little bad about having no Capcom characters on the team. Maybe an Amy anchor unless that means the team is made of paper?
I’m looking for a character that can pick their moment, I believe. It’s difficult to explain- transferring from smash play styles to traditional fighting game play styles. I think Pikachu is almost the opposite shoto to Mario though. Could be completely wrong.
@@Oaktales64 ha I've not played any of Smash or GG or UNIB tbh.
Cap is good at picking spots.
Cap/Doom/Rocket is a good team. Lots of damage for cap from the available assists. I'd recommend missiles with either of Rocket's good assists.
Rocket/Doom/Ammy sounds super frustrating to play against cause RR is such a tricky little guy to fight.
Any other chars you like?
This Tier list explanation was Top Tier
Music name pls?
Can't remember exactly which one it was, but a Breath of the Wild relaxed playlist!
@SpartanThrone preesh. It was a nice selection. Also, I saw a comment said that you were some kind of Iron Fist hotshot. Can't wait to see! I run Cap and IF, so I'm always excited to see them get some play:D
UMVC 3 hour tier list. Fate of the List.
i have 3 teams, and pheonix is the lead on my main team. is honestly so crazy how good pheonix is, and how easy for me it is to use and such. maybe im always playign against people that are bad at the game, but then again, he is so broken, especally once i get all of my evidence, its such a shame to see him on c tier
Edit even tho this was made a few minutes ago, most of my characters are c and b (team 1: nick dante and vergil, team 2: felicia chris and tron, and team 3: frank chun li and arthur) and yet, my brother, who has played this game for years before me complains about my teams because they are a bit crazy when i do good. then again, i havent been around for the true online experience becase i only started playig recently, when the game is basically dead
Phoenix Wright isn't *bad* bad... He's got stuff that works!
It's just that most of the cast has stuff that works... more!
Glad you're having fun with him and the game 👍 experimenting with teams in training mode is still to this day so fun!
@@SpartanThrone frr, its so cool
This is a great watch. And your thoughts are very well thought out and communicated. Definitely a fan and looking forward to future work. Thank you!
Thanks for saying so, glad you enjoyed it!
Sparty, how would you rate zero without the loops? Is it even possible to play him without the loops?
I'd rate him probably in the same place. He'd just be doing less damage in most team setups, but that just means he'd be coming down to the level of other characters and having to use a TAC, or alternatively resetting, and he's so good that his resets are stronger than most characters too.
He can definitely still work without LL's, in fact there exist other strong options if you chose not to LL; ruclips.net/video/bjlivnK6edo/видео.html
But honestly LL's are not that hard to learn if your question comes from a place of having difficulty hitting them. In case you didn't see it here is my tutorial for them, I promise if you take it slow and give it a week or so of nightly practise you'll have them down:
ruclips.net/video/XABdq4b7zDs/видео.html
@@SpartanThrone Thank you so much for the reply! I saw the tutorial and i am trying to learn it, but it is hard :( , i still can't get the blaster in time for the 1st loop :(
@@thekiseki1 it takes practise, you're doing good if you have got that far. Just a couple more steps and you'll get there. Something about it will click for you if you keep at it!
@@SpartanThrone Thanks sparty!
Zero can kill 800k health characters without meter, so even if u cant do LL, u can just do rekkouha at the end of the 800k damage combo and u would kill the majority of the cast except if u fight KBR
We should fly you here. Who’s down ????
do you ever play on psn? i’m very eager to test your skills? i play wolverine also, maybe we can learn from each other
I don't! Not since about 2019 when most players migrated over parsec through PC. Where abouts you from? You have any access to even a low spec pc or laptop? Quite often parsec's low requirements are really convenient across devices that couldn't directly run Marvel itself.
I haven't played Marvel 3 in years, what exactly is a 99?
Sorry, common term for round start when there are 99 seconds left!
Accounting for differences with my own opinion, it's crazy to realize that you can do something cool with every character in this game - except She-Hulk, who is the only fighter on this 50-man roster who I have never seen accomplish anything impressive in Marvel 3's entire tenure. It's wild to realize that RNG Wright and friggin' low tier poster child Hsien-ko have more going on in 2023 than her.
You are right, the versatility and flexibility of the system and characters is something I wish more games could employ.
She Hulk used to be semi decent in Vanilla! Team EG plus Combofiend were wreaking havoc with her (tho she was better then, it was still most their skill tbh), but you should check that out!
@@SpartanThroneInteresting. I do recall hearing that she used to be better.
I remembered one modern She-Hulk win, but it's modded-only. Red She-Hulk has Sol Badguy's Dragon Install with matching specials, and it's still the funniest thing I've seen from Marvel modding.
Thanks for the video. I found it randomly but enjoyed listening to it. I agree with all of this for the most part, but being unable touch the game for unfortunately the better part of a decade means it's *super* weird to see him so high given all the things wrong with him. Huh. So that one I can't really comment on. (I was also rather confused by what you meant by "99", but I got the overall gist of things. I am assuming you meant round start, correct?)
Speaking of "balanced" happy accidents, it's also rather funny that your bottom two characters are both the lawyer characters for each company *and* that the (supposedly) non-gimmick one is the worst one. Oh well. At least She-Hulk's theme song is good.
Speaking of Phoenix Wright and bottom two though, like Hsien-ko (who I was expecting to be bottom one), I think I would move him over one left space and put him above poor Ryu honestly. Sure, Mr. Wright is a gimmick character who is at the mercy of RNG, but he at least doesn't (constantly) need meter to become good, stays meaningfully buffed as an assist in Turnabout Mode if you tag him out, *and* has unique things going for (and against) him unlike poor Ryu. Additionally, despite his overall lack of mix-ups by himself without spending a bar, Turnabout Mode gives Phoenix Wright access to massive damage *and* one of the overpowered Lv. 3 supers in the game that basically murders a character if they so much as twitch. He can also set-up self-unblockables even if the most potent thing he can do outside of Turnabout Mode with those are generally use it to get into Turnabout Mode. Still, that's better than poor Ryu whose only good things are like...a beam super that can OTG if used in the air *and* not in Denjin IIRC, two invincible specials that are risky as hell, and the worst install in the game that for some gods' forsaken reasons runs out far too quickly *and* drains his health. So, yeah, I honestly think Phoenix Wright is better than Ryu. (And I'm almost tempted to say Tron too since honestly forgot she was even in this game shamefully enough, but Tron is likely better than Mr. Wright.)
Finally, I am rather curious about your mention of Team Chris/Wesker/Akuma as someone who used to play the RE characters but with Dormammu. The RE characters unfortunately all suck at dealing with super jump height, and Akuma unfortunately doesn't seem to remedy that. (In a cruel irony, Nemesis is arguably the best RE character overall at dealing with that space but unfortunately the worst RE character overall.) So, yeah, curious if you were actually saying it could be viable or just that it wouldn't be an outright trash compensation like, uh, Felicia/Nemesis/Ryu or something.
Yo! YT has been weird with showing me comments recently, missed this before! Thanks for watching 👍 yeah on your last point LivinLegend26 plays that RE team, he's really strong with it. It of course shows the potential of the team, but also shows the expertise and experience that LL has, go check him out if you haven't already. He has lots of footage from different majors, and lots of TNS appearances!
As a Ghostrider, Cap, Spidey I approve of this list lmao
What makes modok S tier?
@@brick-1234-d6w number of things.
1) MODOK synergizes very well with MorriJean which is a top shell, but general strong synergy with all the top tiers
2) he's got the best round start option/guaranteed escape
3) his mobility is really good and has a very high skill ceiling which lets him do dumb stuff
4) unblockable setups
5) jamming bomb snaps are seriously good. Any other char snapping still needs to score 4 hits, but MODOK hitting a jamming bomb snap skews it heavily in his favour
6) dorito/shield is stupid, like, really stupid
7) strong and ambiguous mixups both solo and assisted
8) great variety of normals and specials, serving unique purposes
@@SpartanThrone I think zero is the best instead of Morgan, and I’d place Spencer up near the top of S but that’s me
I use modok Spencer haggar
My only real grasp is the Cap placing tbh but then again thats good motivation :)
Hmmm watching it back I'm not sure I'm happy with my cap placing, maybe some others, but I did say I would look at chun again at the end and I never did!
(But yesssss change my mind)
@@SpartanThrone yeeee I was thinking about reminding you in chat but it was 3 hours in and late af xD tbf I think it’s only order anyway and the topic is bound to be a bit subjective
yoo it looked like your head was floating 😂😂😂😂
I agree with the list but i would put doom in S+
Completely valid suggestion and I know why you would make it 👍
doom s+ and spencer s.
Morrigan Dr doom Magneto and Vergil are OP! Modok is vvery underrated i m agree
Hey there Sparty. So I recently watch binged all the sparty tech stuff again while at work. I do my shit listen to your wisdom it’s great. But now I am through all multiple times,I NEED more like im getting shivers and fever symptoms frrrr pls help
Lmao sorry I've been slacking on that front a little. I've got 2 nearly complete ideas so I'll hit record once again soon 😇👀
@@SpartanThrone lovely!!! Tbf the most recent 30 minute banger isn’t older than 2 weeks, so slacking might put it a bit harsh even if it was dorm centric. I particularly enjoy the punish videos, anti character videos and general theory and game talk like the Tier list here. Thank you for all the good content you already put out! EUs champ 💪🏼💪🏼
i dont play grapplers much but i see so much potential in thor. thor is a menace up close, and hes great lame, as far as grapplers are concerned. imho, the problem with thor is thor players. why cant thor be as good as haggar? i think haggar players just know how to block better because thor players are too busy getting hit trying to fly around like theyre magneto or something. a smart thor is A teir and a genius thor is S teir imho. you just gotta have some genius modok / firebrand lab monsters on the character to show how worthy of that title he really is.
Haggar is just better defensively. Lariat means you can't pressure Vs him as easily as you can Vs Thor. Haggar also has better buttons and grounded strings and mixups. Thor has to get airborne to make the most of his toolset. So it's more that the chars just have defensive differences rather than the players.
Thor's good, but he's a tad out classed as most things he does by other chars. He's strong when supported well and his health is an issue for a lot of characters so you get more chances than with some other chars, but he's still less able to force himself upon the opponent than he could really do with being able to do.
The one tier list to not have Hisen-ko be bottom 1. But honestly having She Hulk be worse than Phoenix Wright is a crime. She Hulk’s supers are okay; and she has some movement. Phoenix Wright doesn’t have anything if he doesn’t get lucky.
great video smile
I’ve never played this game and at this point it’s prob too late for me to pick it up but I will watch this video regardless
That's commitment! If it does pique your interest, it's both one of the most enjoyable training mode games while also a game that is easy to learn (hard to master).
So getting it cheap and messing about with it in training to learn some combos is a nice step before trying to learn a bit and having a go with some other beginners!
1:19:53 Ammy?
Storm was particularly too low, and Iron man too high. she's way better than him
inb4 IRON MAN A TIER WUT
IRON MAN A TIER ✊✊✊✊
Top Tier
Dark Phoenix
Morrigan
Vergil
Zero
Magneto
Phoenix
High Tier
Doctor Doom
Dormmamu
Dante
C. Viper
M.O.D.O.K
Firebrand
Nova
Spencer
Strider Hiryu
Upper Mid Tier
Wolverine
Hulk
Deadpool
Wesker
Ammatarsu
Sentinel
Mid Tier
Rocket Racoon
Shuma-Gorath
Haggar
Viewtiful Joe
Akuma
Trish
Doctor Strange
Spiderman
Hawkeye
Storm
Frank West
Taskmaster
Chun-Li
Low Tier
Chris Redfield
Captain America
Super Skrull
Iron-Man
Felicia
X-23
Arthur
Thor
Bottom Tier
Ghost Rider
Phoenix Wright
Ironfist
Jill
Nemesis
Tron Bonne
Ryu
H Sienko
Worst Tier
She Hulk
How you gonna do Jenny like that 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@SpartanThrone I graded Jenny harder because I loved the character the way she was in Original Marvel vs. Capcom 3. But they nerfed this average and balanced Mid Tier character into the ground in UMvC3. I never fell out of love with a character faster. You can't deny that She Hulk is the worst character.
Great list, articulated very well. Except for Skrull, he's at least deserving of A tier ya scouser. You screwed the pooch on that one.
LMAOOOOOOO Skrull is character I hate fighting because my chars have a bit of trouble with him, perhaps I was overcompensating for that? 👀
@@SpartanThrone Fair enough, that's a reasonable take. I learned him as a point character first. The amount Lythero got scrubbed out by me bc Mr Wright is usless against him is unreal. Ran him Mags\Vergil so you were stuck fighting one of the Anchor.
@@longdong9885 ohhhh skrull doesn't care if you're quadruple jumping around throwing voomerangs I bet that's a fun matchup 🤣 so did you ever come over for Hyperspotting?
Morrigan should be S, not S+. She's not really very strong without Doom. I don't think you can be S+ when you are tethered that hard to another character. Doom on the other hand should be S+. He's has some bad matches, but he is the best utility/assist character in the game and he's not a bad anchor either. If Doom is not currently on your team, your team will automatically better with him irrespective of what that team is.
I appreciate your comment, thanks for taking the time, that's a spicy take however!
Morrigan is exceptional with Doom yes. Also with Phoenix. Supports the other top tiers like no other while herself also having not a single bad matchup Vs anyone else.
If I accept your suggestion that she's only good with Doom, then her liking doom's support isn't a bad thing. If missiles make her top 1, then play her with Doom every time and she's top 1. (There's much more to it of course, and she's more than just morrigan/missiles).
If supported properly she's legitimately stronger outright than every other character when they too are supported properly, except for Zero who people might argue about, but in my opinion the way she invalidates Phoenix gives her the edge.
I definitely value support (see all of the other support chars placing controversially high on my list), but Doom's got some match up issues Vs anyone good and while I praise his support highest of all, I like to separate him from the top 5 because of his issues and how he is the natural anchor because he is the least threatening of any of his partners on top tier teams.
Lots to it though, and everyone looks at the game differently.
Great vid. I think Iron Man is B tier for sure!!!
Great list. Just feel you lowballed Captain America heavy.
Granted there's always room for reconsideration! Sometimes you make a list like this and you felt one way at the time etc etc.
I'm interested to know what you think though, where would you put him do you think?
@@SpartanThrone I agree you're not always gonna feel the same way. Like now I actually think caps placement is fine I personally would just put x-23 behind him and taskmaster. They're more consistent and x-23's gimmick is super team specific and is over once anyone on the team dies or the character that has to do the infinite's assist was used(on hit).
skrull, x23, spencer too low
otherwise not a bad list :)
Viper should be A tier... I'm sorry, if you're 10 years into the game and you still are that theory character, you don't deserve to be considered S tier.
i respect your opinion 1st of all but akuma in A tier is kind of a joke , at worst akuma is S and can easily be in S+ , ok health good mobility, good supers , good mix ups good setups good everything , literally good in everything
He has the 2nd lowest health in the game.
Mobility is tied to specials that leave him vulnerable.
Good mixups, good setups, good damage etc I give you
But that's what they are... Good.
Good is mid tier in a game where many more characters are great or godlike.
Well, two years ago I had made a list too.
ruclips.net/video/edJQ6Xt5njw/видео.html&ab_channel=DkingArcade
But now, I agree more with your list. For me the best three characters of this game, always will be 'Morrigan, Vergil and Zero'. They need a special tier kkkkk
I think your argument about Vergil being better than Phoenix has a problem in that in those situations where she is getting blown up by Morrigan or whoever else, she has to get hit for that to happen and in the same situation if vergil is hit, he's just dead without any specific setup. She's generally better at avoiding getting hit due to her air options.
I think you could still argue it on the basis of his support value and flexibility being much better. With him being viable in all positions/tons of teams and ridiculous dhcs
I don't think Chun Li is that strong. Doom is S+ for me.
1:08:46 lmao
This game is WAY too volatile to have an S+ tier.
Are you sure it's volatile?
Marvel is actually very stable. Top chars are really consistent across tournaments and tier lists. Those top 5 especially are one of the few things the vast majority of the community agrees on (tho not the exact order).
@@SpartanThrone That describes what I would consider an S tier. Characters that very much define and even shift the meta around them, but not as an absolute. Especially when X-Factor exists and single mistakes can flip matches. Ultimately probably not a huge point of disagreement.
I think you're kind of deluded about the zipfinite. If it comes to fruition it'll be banned everywhere. It goes against the spirit of the game.
...that's pretty much what I said about it in the video I made specifically on that subject (that if it did become a thing that was happening at high level events and making grand finals a question of who grabs who, then the community would probably ban it).
It's so droppable tho it won't come to fruition anyway.
No way Phoenix is so high. Shes so weak i never seen somebody win a tournament with her. Too easy to counter
You’ve never seen anyone win a tournament with…Phoenix?
Phoenix won 2 EVOs in umvc3 and another one in vanilla MvC3
I want to watch this man learn Iron Fist, Jill, Iron man, its a very hard but fun team