These Seeds Needs COLD to Sprout - (3 Ways to Winter Sow)
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
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I’ve been winter sowing for years, and here are some tips that may not align with this video.
1) poke drainage holes before cutting the jug in half. It’s more stable that way.
2) you *must* leave the caps off. It’s important for air flow and to allow water or snow to get in, it’s not optional.
3) The inverted method shown here does not leave sufficient space for the plants to grow.
4) taping the sides closed with duct tape keeps the moisture in-so you get the condensation you need. Tucking the top into the bottom can work, but you lose height which is needed for the growing plants.
5) When you put them outside, make sure they are in a spot that is open to the air, not a covered location. They need to get the rain. I usually set mine right on one of my raised beds.
6) Here in NJ we jug sow waaaay later than Feb 14. In fact, we do it for summer and fall crops, too. I jug sow tomatoes, cucumbers, everything. it works great. Only thing you need to do when it’s warm out is to make sure the jugs don’t get too hot and that they stay moist. Sometimes you need to open the tops to cool them off
I've seen so many gardening youtube channels recommend leaving the cap on and I have full RHEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA freakouts
Thank you for making these points! This is the first video by MIgardener that I flew to the comments section wanting someone to correct him. You worded everything that needed to be said perfectly.
I too winter sow and can confirm this comment is completely accurate. I would only add (not finished watching yet) that tropical plants should not be winter sown.
I'm in NY so same zone probably. I'm just getting my seeds and getting ready to start. When do you usually put the jugs out? I was thinking late Feb? About 8 weeks before last frost by us?
I do mostly peppers and tomatoes with winter sowing. I can’t afford a greenhouse so these work for me. When the soil is warm enough, they get planted.
Truly wish the seed packets would tell you that those seeds need cold stratification in red bold words.
Yeah. Though to be fair, I've simply gotten into a habit of placing all my seeds in a drawer in a "three season room" over the winter. Haven't run across any problems even for seeds that don't require it but my experimentation is limited.
You would think they would
Why would they. If your seeds don't germinate, you just buy more and that's after losing precious time with waiting and waiting.... Tks Luc
Why would they. If your seeds don't germinate, you just buy more and that's after losing precious time with waiting and waiting.... Tks Luc
Same! Now I know why my Rosemary wouldn't germinate.
This will be a great video to have a part 2 in a couple of months. Thank you!
I’ve winter sown for many years. I use milk jugs cut with a hinge and caps off. I’ve been successful with nigella, poppies, milkweed, delphinium, foxglove, echinacea, veronica, gaillardia, Jacob’s ladder, Lilly scales, and many more. I live near Calgary Alberta and have never had a problem.
Ooohhhhh…l’m west of you. Thank you for this tip! I didn’t think it would work here because the temp drops so low still!
For my winter sowing I just put about an extra inch of compost on top of one of my raised beds and then pop a Rubbermaid container over top of it.
Was thinking of trying this method… in addition to jugs. Have positive experience w jug method
Did this last year and doing it again this year, other thing is you don't need to harden off because they are already outside in the elements.
This explains why most of my lavender didn’t germinate 🙁 I’ll do this now! Thanks!
Right! I have been starting Rosemary for the last 3 years and nothing germinated. Lol now I know.
I winter sow in milk jugs each year. Lids off, duct tape around the cut sides. It’s easy and low maintenance once you set the jugs out! I might fail with 2 out of 50 jugs and I do not have much of a green thumb. (My husband does.) I’ve gotten a later start this year than I prefer so I hope to catch up this weekend.
Winter sown for 2025 so far: Amaranth, Ashwaganda, Tulsi Basil, Boneset, Burdock, Black Cumin, Dusty Miller, Edelweiss, French Hollyhock, Quinoa, Red Plume Orach, Saltwort, Winter Savory, Tansy, and Valerian. 10 of those are new to me.
288 cell trays of lettuce and onions are under the grow lights. They can be winter sown too but we’re rushing the lettuce to the high tunnels for a wedding in mid-March.
Off the top of my head, winter sowing successes from last year were calendula, bachelor buttons, forget me nots, scabiosa, cosmos, carnations, rudbeckia, zinnias, blue bedder sage, stevia, chamomile, thyme, and so many more. Plants grown this way are much hardier.
Winter sowing is a game changer for me. All the seeds that used to not come up, I assumed they didn’t like me. Stick them in a jug and they act like I’m the best thing ever. (They needed cold stratification and the very even moisture that the milk jugs provide.)
Ask at a local coffee shop if they can collect a trash bag or two of milk jugs for you to pick up. I use the tip of a hot glue gun to melt the drainage holes, box cutter for the sides, gorilla tape, and a Sharpie professional.
So far my favorite method is to use the black 10x20 trays with a plastic cover on top.
1. Drill holes into bottom of 10x20 tray if they don't already come with holes
2. Fill seed cells with seed starting mix (I can typically fit 6 in my 10x20 tray)
3. Place seed labels using a garden marker
4. Sow the seeds and water them in with spray bottle or gentle flowing watering can
5. I like to take a picture of my 10x20 tray with seed labels facing me just in case the labels fade
6. Carefully poke holes in plastic cover (I poke quite a few small holes, roughly 8-10) and then place on top of 10x20 tray
7. Use twine to secure plastic dome on top
8. Place outside in a spot that gets minimal sun
9. Every week or two check on the trays to make sure the soil isn't drying out (I usually pick them up and go by how heavy they are)
10. Once seeds start germinating remove plastic cover and thin seedlings as needed
11. Transplant once seedlings get second set of leaves (sometimes I wait a little longer)
Onion, leek, and celery all worked great this way for me.
I do leave the tops off, so they don't overheat. But keep the tops.
For your summer crops, like Tomato, pepper...don't overseed, or you'll get tiny starts. And either start them later, or bring them inside if your going to have frost. Inside, use the tops in case of the little flies.
The best part is, no hardening off 😊
Yes! I’m going to try celery thanks!
@@crystals14acregarden61
I do not have success with celery. Where do you live?
I just finished most of my winter sowing in Ohio, though I still have bit more to do. I just wanted to point out that it's important to leave the lid off to let moisture in and heat escape. And if you do not get adequate precipitation, you may have to water them. I just posted a video on my method.
I LOVE winter sowing! Last winter I tried winter sowing yarrow seeds and I also tried sowing them indoors in cells after stratifying them in the fridge. The indoor seeds did not germinate. The ones in milk bottles out in the snow germinated! I had a nice bunch of yarrow last summer! Hopefully they will make it through the winter in their spot in my cottage garden. Hoping for some beautiful blooms this summer!
So awesome that your winter sowing was successful! Hopefully, you get a big flush of blooms again this year!
I did Winter sowing last year with onions, echinacea, lavender and it worked well.
I have wintersown poppies,larkspur,coneflowers,english daisies, hollyhock, foxglove,penstemon, snapdragon,chamomile, bachelor button,allysum, cottage pinks, feverfew,love in a mist, otlaya, verbena, calendula, and dianthus.
I find that poppies and larkspur do really well just being sown outside on top of snow. They do drift about though, so sometimes cluster at the edge of the bed.
I have done this with cabbage, but never thought of those that need winter sowing. Thank you!
You can do this with so many different crops! Thank you so much for watching and I’m glad you enjoyed it.
I winter sow common milkweed, poppies, yarrow, coneflower, cabbage, but milkweed is my favorite. It began growing in my yard (husband not thrilled) but i used those seed since obviously they like it here. Now i put it on our 20 acres of wooded and cleared land. I also winter sowed black walnut and oak last year. We have japanese knotweed and i am hoping the juglone will help keep it at bay. Experiments in the works every year! Love the channel and love that James Prigioni is partnering with you. I am so sad about Tuck. 😥
😪
Thank you; I've always found lavender hard to grow. You might have explained why. I'd like to try winter sowing.
Exactly. I bought a start. Planted it and thought it died. Actually took two years but I just left it and now it’s gorgeous. Took a look at it yesterday and it’s bigger than ever. Still winter here but I think I’ll actually be able to harvest some this year for tea and beauty. 🎉. I’ll make sure the pollinators get their fill first!
I’m in Florida so I think I will need to modify the options. I’m going to put a shallow layer of soil in a sealed container and put it in the fridge for about three weeks. Temps are in the mid 70’s here.
Good video. I am starting about 5k perennials for my retirement plant nursery this year (retiring in a few years). This is a great way to not spend overhead cost! Thanks MIGardner! I'm a MI native, now mid-Missouri gardener. I lived in Marion the first 10 years of my life...such great memories there!
Here’s a tip if you’re starting plants with tap roots , making transplanting difficult. Use tall pots or Temptation cat treats bulk containers are perfect.
I’ve tried to winter sow several years with little success. My issue has been watering. I like this flip top method and will give it a try.
I've never cold stratified my rosemary & it always grows!😅 I never knew that it needed to be. This needs to be on seed packets.
This year, I am trying those little plastic tubs from the produce section at the grocery used to contain things like berries, small tomatoes, or other smaller veg/fruit products. Because here in the south, winter days get fairly warm, I've actually placed the potting soil/seed starting mix in them, planted the seeds, and placed them in a mini-fridge in the garage 2 weeks ago. I'll remove them in 2 weeks and slowly acclimate them on the back porch before placing them outside. Cross your fingers that this will work decently enough. 😊
❤ I've done it small pumpkins. I did protect more with a large clear tote over, and freeze nights used freeze cloths too. I had pumpkins ripe by april or so. I did do things like remove totes in better weather to not over heat. I'm in Tx. Take care.
Thank you for the information I was one of those ppl questioning their skill for those very plants lol
Perfect timing :) the seeds I ordered arrive today 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
I have great success with Winter Sowing onions.
I just put the seeds packets into the fridge for 2 or 3 months then planted them into 12 cell containers. The other thing I did was just plant them in the 12 cell kits with their own bottom tray and moisture dome. Then just watched them. I have some that didn't germinate so I am leaving them outside. I live in the low AZ desert where there is little frost.
Hi June! 👋🏼😊💞
Last year was my first try at winter sowing. My skills at watering indoor starts are nil, so I gave it a try. I was amazed at how well everything grew. I found that using soil from my raised bed worked the best. I did use seed starting mix for some plants, but it dried out too quickly, and it had no nutrients. We are going to use this method at the garden where I volunteer. Looking forward to a successful season. Thanks Luke!
I have stratified a lot of seeds. I have grown plumb, apricot, peach seed. I have started many apple trees from seed. I have not done vegetable seeds yet. I have accidentally started squash seeds in my compost pile by throwing out the seed and turning the pile.
I have never winter sown. I am so glad you made this video. A friend gave me some milkweed seeds last fall and I had no idea they needed to be cold stratified. I will get them out in a jug this week now. I am in northwest Ohio so they should still get plenty of winter. Thank you so much Luke.
Do we need to make sure there is plenty of sun where we place them? How many hours of sun do they need?
Great video! I’ve done winter sowing for three years and it’s so easy and so much fun!
I tried this clear jug methon and it grown algae. Seeing you video of how to winter sow, I realized that I did a mistake by watering the inside, thus causing too much moisture. Plus I don't think I poked hole underneath. Thank you for your knowledge and info.
I live in Niagara Falls Ontario n this is my first time winter sowing. U mentioned that it’s possible to winter sow tomatoes. U also mentioned that mid January to Feb. is when to winter sow, after that it’s too late. When do I winter sow tomatoes ?( some have said March or April winter sowing for tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini ) There is so much conflicting information out there on videos as to gardening in general, also for winter sowing. It can be extremely frustrating n confusing. There’s only a few ones out there I trust ( obviously ur one of the few ) Any info I’d appreciate.😔
Only the seeds that REQUIRE cold stratification need to be winter sown by early February (or as appropriate by your climate) to allow them enough time to receive cold temperatures. Seeds like tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini, etc do not require the cold stratification so they can be started in the jugs at a later date.
@@kaylakitty3814 or started indoors.
I winter sowed cucumbers, squash, corn etc in April last year successfully.
What zone ? If you start in April, when cucumbers and corn are ready to transplant? Thanks
I’m interested in the cucumbers as well. My cucumbers were pathetic last year 😢.
I just did a bunch of winter sowing. I put in a bunch of flowers that I couldn't get to germinate in the past, herbs that I knew were finicky, and weird things I got in an MIG grab bag like Gogi berries that I just had no clue what to even do with. LOL Wish me luck!
How do the pros winter sow? Seems like you’d get the same results if you use trays outside. That’s what I’m trying this year. Mine are daisies & echinacea. I figure they’ll germinate when it warms up to the correct temperature. That’s when the heat mats and grow lights come in handy. Doing it with the plastic bottles was just a fun way Laura came up with and everyone decided to copy her. Very cool! My dad just kept all his seed packets in the fridge. ✌🏻
That's basically what I'm going to try this year. I have an unheated green house and I'm going to try to start some seeds in there and see how they do. Otherwise I use the milk jugs and have great success with that.
@ I’m going to try both ways and see what happens. I love experiments lol.
I will try this with my rosemary seeds this week. In Minnesota, zone 4.
Great idea. I’m just south of you in Iowa. Never had much luck with rosemary and I guess now I know why, lol.
@@firequeen2194 also in Iowa. My rosemary plant got so big last year, the sprigs were almost 2 feet long.
I'm not a novice grower by any definition, but I still have a lot of difficulty germinating Lavender. The milk jug method seems to have the best success, but still have less than 30% germination. It's so much easier to do stem 😊cuttings lol 😂!
That’s how I start my seeds. I use old milk jugs and do exactly what Luke did. I’ve had wonderful luck doing it this way.
Thanks for the great tutorial. I've never tried winter sowing , but I will this year as I have some Rosemary seeds to start.
Thank you for this video!!
I live in Wisconsin 5B and I am winter sowing my tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers this weekend
I have sixteen milk jugs out side since last Sunday with your purple broccoli seed in them. I did one thing slightly different I have three inch pots with the seeds in them under the opening of the jugs.
Hi John! 👋🏼😊
@ fancy seeing you here!
Glad you made this video as so many new gardeners don't know about stratification like I did a few yrs back and have thrown many seeds away thinking they were bad seeds. 😅 I am going to do the stratification on my seeds for now on by winter sowing.
Started winter sowing just this week…my first time! I’m hoping it saves me space in my grow room for the hundreds of veggies I’m going to be starting in March!
Great video. Could you do a video on challenging seeds to germinate aka rosemary lol. I’ve tried and tried to start it and nada.
I’ve been trying to grow echinacea forever so I’ll be doing that for sure this year! That’s one I need to add to my tea garden. Thanks Luke!
I can't wait to play in the dirt! 😊 I was just thinking I need to start my winter sewing. I'm planning on doing it this weekend. I do the flip top method. My fall planted garlic is coming up! I love plant therapy 😌
This video came at a perfect time as I'm currently trying to grow comfrey and stinging nettle with no luck.
That is a great crop to grow with cold stratification.
Can you please make a winter sowing video part 2 ? What to do with the seedlings once they’re growing in the containers, but it’s still too cold to move them unprotected out into the garden?
Leave them in the containers until the weather permits you to transplant them in the ground. They'll be happy in the milk jugs as long as you monitor the conditions by making sure they have enough water and opening the jugs on days above 65 or so. Close the jugs at night for protection.
In zone 7a and love winter sowing with the ol’ milk jug method. Have had great success with greens (kale & collards especially). Excited to try this with poppies and cabbage this weekend :)
I do this with everything. Leave a hinge and tape. Cap off. Water if needed.
Now that I'm mad that this is why my milkweed isn't doing anything (it's not from you :) ) I do want to complement you and your designer on your most excellent information panel on the back of MIgardender packets. I'm a graphic designer myself so I'm admittedly a bit picky about how I want to see information, but EVERYTHING I ever need is right there and easy to find on the packet. Planting depth, days to germination, days to maturity, random stuff like needing to cold stratify, etc. - your seeds are just so easy to work with. And then I get to my Ferry-Morse seeds and the back of the packet is essentially "idk throw them in the ground or something" D:
I am in 8a, MS, and we have a rollercoaster of weather temps all throughout our winter. Our nighttime temps are still 30’s and 40’s, but our daytime temps have ranged from the 40’s to today which is in the low 60’s. I am trying to learn the best time to winter sow anything with these up and down temps. Tomorrow we will hit the low 70’s with rain and then it will be cold again. How do you handle what you’ve wintered sown with these kinds of temperatures?
~~Lisa
I’m trying celery this year because they take so long to grow, so I figured I would give them a head start with winter sowing and it will also save me some time by taking away the need to slowly acclimate them to the outdoors. I think onions would be a cool crop to try as well.
I simply put my seedlings on a shelving unit by the garage door and open/close the door as needed. No carting seedlings in and out. My other method is to put them on the open storage shelves outside on the back of my chicken coop. I thumb tack shade cloth at the top and use that to give the seedlings protection with some sun. My 3rd method of hardening off is to put the seedlings out on gray days in shade. Plant them after about 4 days. I'm zone 6B/7A.
Great info. Kinda think I might try poppies 😊
I've got poppies, rosemary, lavender, st Johns Wort, Bee Balm and pansies winter sown in containers sitting in my garden. Didn't have great luck stratifying in the fridge so trying this way. I also sprinkled poppy seeds throughout my flower gardens early winter.
Steps
Put the seeds on a damp paper towel.
Cover the seeds with another layer of paper towel.
Put the seeds in a sealed plastic container or ziplock lunch bag
Put the container in the refrigerator for a few weeks.
Thats what i did and didnt have success.
Great video & info 🌱🌱👵🏻❣️
Luke, can I put these seeds out a couple before the last frost? That is my plan.
I had heard of this, but never really knew what or how to do it. Thank you for this video. So much great info.
I’m in CT and from just watching how nature plants her seeds and the following growing results, I’ve started to do the same. I basically “plant/seed” my garden beds in the late fall. The plants will do their thing on their own time. However this doesn’t work well for all but does work for most.
I use end of year cuttings with rosemary. Success rate is high, and I have fresh rosemary every year. No cold stratifying for that. 😅
I've done the same with rosemary, sage, and oregano. I mulch well, keep watered and fertilized, and end up having beautiful mature perennial plants by spring.
Great video
thanks brother for your videos
I tried to start Rosemary last year and only got one seed to germinate. I did not know it needed cold stratification, glad to know the seed was probably fine I just didn't start them correctly.
I didn't know they supposedly need light to germinate. I honestly rarely read the seed packet, so it may be on there somewhere.
I use kitty litter containers , cap off PLUS I also cut hole in top of jug. I SELDOM need to add moisture. Here in Northwest Michigan, I don’t start until April 1, still cold enough here for cold stratification.
I'm in northern Kent County and was wondering about that cut-off date. I tried this with about 20 jugs last year, and only about 4 jugs had growth. I think they didn't get enough moisture. With the jugs tapped, it was hard to water through just the little hole on top.
@ I’m at the tip of the Leelanau peninsula. My jugs are placed in snow sleds and a jet sled. I add water to the sled for bottom watering, and then drain so they don’t get water logged. I find that easier than adding through lid. Also, sleds makes it easy to move your another area of my yard.
Thank you, Johnny
well i put mine in the seed package in the fridge without the paper towels. i had them in there for three weeks, hopefully it works
Worked for me! But I left the packages in for at least 2 months. If yours don't sprout put the covered container outdoors and see if it works. I have some that I have done that too. Good luck!
I needed to Learn about this for my mullien 🥰 thank you
Same. Same.
I had no idea mullein needed stratification.
I winter sowed mullein last year. It works great!
I am curious and will try the snail roll method in combination of placing them in a jug outside. I will try that this week. Snail roll makes it easier to germinate 30-50 seedlings in a very small space.
Could you please explain this snail roll method?
I saw that online. Intriguing, may try. Like making a pumpkin roll
I have to supplement water because we don’t get that much rain or snow here.
Would a seed tray with a humidity dome work? Seems like it would be easier to transplant
Great video and very useful information....
Thank you for this great video! I’m currently cold-stratifying some of my seeds and now I’m thinking of trying the bottle method too.
Quick question-regarding the damp paper towel method in the fridge: I did that with pansies, but when I went to sow them, they were so damp that they were tricky to handle. Any tips on the best way to deal with that?
I’m going to try this this year. Since I’m a family of one, I don’t get empty gallon jugs often. I’ve asked family and neighbors to save jugs for me, but no one has come through. I was actually going to start this week, but I ended up with pneumonia and a sinus infection! In another video I saw about winter sowing the gentleman used the tip of a glue gun to make the drainage holes.
You can use half gallon milk jugs or even plastic juice bottles also. Some people use Dollar Tree opaque storage containers with tops. Just put the holes in the top and bottom. The top to let rain in, bottom, to let rain out!
This year I am using aluminum roasting pans with the clear tops, from Dollar Tree. We also don't get jugs in our house hold
Hope you get well soon
I go to the recycling center and dumpster dive.
Can you use a covered seed starting tray?
Some people use opaque storage containers with covers from The Dollar Tree Store, so I don't see why that wouldn't work for you. Like everything else, keep an eye on them.
How did you figure out when to plant your winter garden?
I love the video, but its a frozen hellscape here. Do you know if there is a too cold for seeds? What that point is?
Love this method.
Can you germinate chestnut for Florida?
Can you just plant directly where you want the plant to grow?
Yep, I do that sometimes.
I would think so. The seeds will sprout whenever the conditions are right for them. And for warm season plants if they sprout and you get a cold spell they will die if you don't protect them.
That’s exactly what I was wondering. I’m going to try!
thank you
Do you have to win or so flowers and plants from a warm climate area
Sand would not be goog median for seeds?
This is my first year trying winter sowing. I'm a little concerned as Colorado winters are no longer consistently cold, sometimes we get a warming trend and a hard cold snap. Safe to assume if there are germinated seedlings I should bring them inside so they don't freeze????
You want to leave the cap off so the container has air and you can use a sprayer to water if there's no rain in the forecast.
I winter sow in my greenhouse so I have to water them myself.
QUESTION: Do your seeds indicate if the seed needs to be pressed (surfased sown) & needs stratification? I don't recall them stating that on perrenial flowers.
Hi Luke! I really enjoy these videos, I've learned so much! A question tho, if I'm still experiencing freezing temps in my zone (-20 c), more often than not, is it still the right time to start winter sowing in containers, outside? Thank you for any and all advice!!
Hi!
I'm zone 4a. Temperatures don't matter. Moisten your potting soil before adding it to your containers. He doesn't mention that. I love growing perennials with this method! They are strong & healthy.
Do you have to moisten seeds before winter sowing
Moisten the soil before you put it in containers, then plant the seed.
Can I plant hard neck garlic right now in Detroit? Or should I wait till end of March?? I’m so sad I missed my window in fall :( please help!! Thank you
I can’t find strawberry seeds. Can I plant strawberry bare roots in the winter?
I'm new at everything planning seeds last year's my first year I just started winter sowing the 26th of January 2025 I use the method cutting a milk jug like a handle and tape it back up I took the cap off the milk jug and I put two or three holes on top of the milk jug and for my draining I put holes in the bottom I was wondering if you can winter sow tomatoes Joanne from Circleville Ohio Zone 6B should I put them out now if I can win or so the tomatoes and what other kind of vegetables
Good advice. Last winter I attempted cold stratification on lavender & rosemary with little success. I managed to get one rosemary plant out of sixteen and none of the lavender. Could be they are more finnicky than I'd expected being Mediterranean type plants, operator error is more likely though. So I decided after autumn clean-up this past fall to cast the remaining seed from the packets into the gardens I'd like them to grow. After this past cold spell the last few weeks I definitely figure I'll find out this coming summer if it was me or if it isn't meant to be.
Do these plants come back each year after the next winter? I am going to try rosemary for the first time
@@theresehale1796 Yes, both rosemary & lavender are perennials. How best to go about it, I don't know. I think Luke did a video about rosemary, it might be quite a few years back.
@ I'm going to correct myself on this. {figures}
You'll have to check for winter hardiness for your area. Some zones you might need to provide extra protection, where as other apparently it is better as a houseplant near a window.
I found two videos by Luke.
Guide from seed: ruclips.net/video/nJEi67_I93E/видео.html
Propagate herbs from cuttings: ruclips.net/video/8rl6ovNylfs/видео.html
Can I do this with garlic? I didn’t sow in fall like your suppose to.
What’s the raised bed box you’ve got there?
..also, there are MANY annual flowers that need stratification. You can ck out Lisa Ziegler’s COOL FLOWER SOWING.
Is this the same as forcing ??
I live in Ontario Canada 6b. Can I simply sprinkle seeds directly on the grown now? As the snow melts and Spring arrives would the seeds not germinate
I don't suppose you could put up a list of typical veggies that NEED this winter stratification?
I don't think any veggies need it, it is needed for some flowers and herbs.