I think the negative public perception of the H Street streetcar has put stigma on streetcars in general in DC, preventing the future expansion of streetcars, and blocking the one thing to make the streetcar actually good. Which is a shame, because streetcars can be amazing if done right.
The DC Streetcar is to me a symptom of modern American cities feigning an interest in rail-based public transport, but creating it in such a minimal way, that it is ultimately a useless gadget doing more harm than good. There are countless such tiny lines springing up all over the US that have very limited potential and low ridership. Such a service is no better than an express bus, or maybe even a regular bus. If you want to do a surface streetcar, commit to it and build big. A tiny, two-mile, straight line or a downtown loop isn't going to make much of a difference and I think actually hurts the reputation of rail transport more than it does good, with it being then viewed as expensive, slow, under-utilised and useless for any substantial journeys.
Bingo! Trains are treated like a gentrifier virtue signalling checklist item and nothing more... Like a hipster must have like slow-drip coffee and one-speed bikes... All great things but if they are only an expensive niche item, what's the point? Especially when it comes to MASS transit...
Exactly. Combine that with the fact that they don't even bother to put in stuff like dedicated lanes or signal priority, the former would even make it cheaper than having it shared with cars, but instead we get these useless circulators that are slow, expensive, only uses vehicles the size of a bus, gets stuck in traffic like a bus, and only serves to increase property value. Most lines only go in a unidirectional loop too which doesnt help either. The only moderately succesful lines are those that go from A to B and have actual points and destinatons on each end and along the line, like the KC Streetcar, Detroit Q-line, Charlotte Gold line, and to some extent, the DC Streetcar.
I mean... ok. But DC isn't exactly the best example of that considering the size and quality of the metro. Seems like they've demonstrated a genuine interest in rail.
Building trolley or light rail lines that do not go where people want to go is not a good place to spend transit capital dollars. If the line gets built and then people do not use it only makes it harder to get more lines or as you stated getting more dollars to expand the line to provide a more meaningful destination. Planers must insist that the line gets built only if there is a reasonable chance for meaningful ridership.
As planned, the H-Benning streetcar was intended to be extended west of WUS (Washington Union Station) near the western extreme of K-Street NW near Whitehurst Pkwy. As such, the concept was to connect a special redevelopment district ─ the H-Street NE / Benning Rd Corridor ─ to the Georgetown district, with some dedicated pathway along K-St, thereby creating a fixed-guideway cross-town line. The primary issue is in garnering the massive needed funding, as well as in dealing with political pushback and NIMBYs along that route extension. Without that much longer western leg, the H-Benning streetcar line is basically a mere transit toy. I rode it several times in 2018. Another issue is that its connection with WUS is very inconvenient, due to the extended distance between the Hopscotch Bridge (H-St bridge) streetcar termination and the WUS concourse ─ pretty much a good walk. The proposed Benning Rod extension to the Metro will help connect the line on the east (past Oklahoma Ave. and across the Anacostia River) to the WMATA rapid transit network, but as is stands now, the streetcar start-up project has remained mostly stillborn, except for a 2+mile "demonstration" (as it were). Otherwise, the line serves only riders local to the H-Benning corridor. Without the western extension in full or in part (as with a more recent proposal), I just don't foresee the line every attaining its full potential ─ not even close.
I literally live down the street from that thing. I barely ride it as it is. DC was supposed to have streetcars throughout the city but they canned the Georgetown extension and going forward with the less needed eastern expansion to Benning (M) station.
The non-connection to Union Station is a disgrace. I think any engineer, architect, etc., who designs a transit project should have to walk through a full-size mockup of the facility with a couple of suitcases and two children under 8 years old. If that had been done with the DC streetcar, they may have worked harder to find a way to get the line to go into the station itself. That would allow for connections with Amtrak, MARC, VRE and the Metro Red Line. Putting people off the car on a stupid bridge that's exposed to the weather is asinine.
Considering how long it took them to get this short line up and running, their grand vision of 35 miles of line would take around 150 years to realize.
I would like to think if DC built more street car lines there would be less hate for the H Street line. Maybe not. I also find the argument that the H Street line only serves H Street as....interesting.
Thank you for bringing us this very interesting video presentation, it is a shame that the streetcar isn't quite as good as it could be but these facilities do have great potential and one hopes that it could be extended further out where it could gain greater patronage. The streetcars where I live are having an extension built and is due to open for public use in Spring of next year, the part that is presently in use is immensely popular. Of course these systems have great environmental credentials.
I've been riding the streetcar more recently and one thing to note is how running in mixed traffic adjacent to a parking lane(without signal priority at points where it needs to change lanes) really fucks it up. If it could end the signal on 3rd and H quickly it would boost the quality of life dramatically. Further, if they could do something about the double parked cars(a loading zone) or very immediate enforcement, then instead of it taking 10 minutes to go less than a mile it could do so much faster and much more effectively
Hearing Caleb use the term ragequit was delightfully unexpected. It’s hard for me to even imagine what that would look like coming from one of the least rageful and most patient creators on youtube lmao
American streetcars tend to be let down by a lack of strong priority at traffic signals. Just permitting greater priority at signals for late streetcars would go a long way towards making the lines more attractive, by allowing them to tighten up the schedules. As it stands, they don't really demonstrate any of the inherent advantages of streetcars compared to buses.
Was just about to ask this question why it's so far away from the union station platforms. Hopefully it will be much walker straight forward to the streetcar.
Toronto, Melbourne and San Francisco never fully shut down their streetcar networks from the past so they are probably your best examples... Edmonton my hometown used to have over 75 km in a city of 50,000 people alone back in the day before streetcars were scrapped in 1951... Now the city has 1,000,000+ within the core and 1.5M in the metro give or take and now we're playing catch up rebuilding and expanding our train networks to compensate... So next time y'all fill up on Alberta crude remember at least a tiny tiny portion is going to rebuild our LRT in the capital... And yes... ugh... Calgary! ;-)
@@brunhildevalkyrie And between PTC and SEPTA's ineptitude and NCL's predation in the 1950s, Philly's system is a shadow of what it once was. The only serious operations within the city limits are the lines that run underground before fanning out to W. Philly. The longstanding rumor is that they survived only because PTC/NCL couldn't figure out how to put diesel buses in the tunnels. The only good news is that the (relatively) new team under CEO Leslie Richards has active plans to acquire new streetcars as well as make some *very* limited extensions to a few lines that had been truncated by PTC/NCL.
The issue is they put the streetcar in the right lane in an area where Uber drivers and food pickups mean people park with their hazards there. If DC had put it in the left lane or, better, given it its own lane, the streetcar would probably be booming and they'd be mocking up plans to add more. Instead, its slower than walking due to long stops and having to follow traffic.
This is by far the worst designed line, middle of a bridge to no where, didn’t even go far enough to link with the metro. Plus the cars (I’ve worked on them) are some of the most thrown together thing ever! With that being said, no one can deni what it has brought to the community, The areas along the line have increased in price and is coming back. (New building, restraints, stores, ex) This is what rail transportation does. No matter how it’s set it. It’ll bring something to a community with opportunity.
People took one look at the disruption of business and traffic and wanted no parts of it. Similar to when the green line was being built in the 80’s. Folks and new transplants weren’t here to see how businesses were impacted and crashed during that construction. So the NIMBYs won’t let that service be great. It was supposed to go from Union Station to Minnesota Ave/Deanwood area which is largely void of public transportation and could use it to revitalize that corridor between deanwood and Ft DuPont.
I’m only p!ssed they should’ve built the original lines instead of just h st, also would hate it if the streetcar beside what it is now, doesn’t become a loop around the city like many others that have made their streetcar lanes look like a downtown transit way that doesn’t even connect curtain neighborhoods. Only downtown regions. Regardless, they need to take notes from Europe. They have potential, BUT anything made in the states isn’t well thought out, but I can dream though.
The problem with modern "streetcars" in America is that they are used to gentrify older areas by offering a retro-futuristic version of America that barely existed for a few years and... nothing more. They aren't built as suburban to downtown commuter lines like they should... And they aren't used as BRT replacements like they should... Or even pre-metro style half-hearted attempts at full mass transit... It's a sad jack of all trades master of none prospect really... And it's not the trains fault... Just the planners of the systems that aren't entirely honest about their intentions... Still it looks cool and all! ;-)
An example? Edmonton, my hometown, is opening 2 years late a modern streetcar line designed to replicate an older legacy system that was shut down in 1951... We opened a Frankfurt-style U-bahn system in the 1978 and slowly expanded it since BUT... new flaky planners took over at city hall and now we're getting a slower and more expensive streetcar that connects a New Town development called Mill Woods with the rest of the city and will run slower than the existing bus service it replaces... Yes it looks good and will kick off a cluster of skyscraper developments at our plethora of dying malls and housing estates but at twice the price and half the utility... SMH...
I think the negative public perception of the H Street streetcar has put stigma on streetcars in general in DC, preventing the future expansion of streetcars, and blocking the one thing to make the streetcar actually good. Which is a shame, because streetcars can be amazing if done right.
Not true
@@OperatorLogan Not true in what way…
You have been smoking
@@peskypigeonx some people give you asinine statements with no follow ups. That's how you know they are just sad pathetic trolls. Love the DC 🚋
The DC Streetcar is to me a symptom of modern American cities feigning an interest in rail-based public transport, but creating it in such a minimal way, that it is ultimately a useless gadget doing more harm than good. There are countless such tiny lines springing up all over the US that have very limited potential and low ridership. Such a service is no better than an express bus, or maybe even a regular bus. If you want to do a surface streetcar, commit to it and build big. A tiny, two-mile, straight line or a downtown loop isn't going to make much of a difference and I think actually hurts the reputation of rail transport more than it does good, with it being then viewed as expensive, slow, under-utilised and useless for any substantial journeys.
Bingo! Trains are treated like a gentrifier virtue signalling checklist item and nothing more... Like a hipster must have like slow-drip coffee and one-speed bikes... All great things but if they are only an expensive niche item, what's the point? Especially when it comes to MASS transit...
Exactly. Combine that with the fact that they don't even bother to put in stuff like dedicated lanes or signal priority, the former would even make it cheaper than having it shared with cars, but instead we get these useless circulators that are slow, expensive, only uses vehicles the size of a bus, gets stuck in traffic like a bus, and only serves to increase property value.
Most lines only go in a unidirectional loop too which doesnt help either. The only moderately succesful lines are those that go from A to B and have actual points and destinatons on each end and along the line, like the KC Streetcar, Detroit Q-line, Charlotte Gold line, and to some extent, the DC Streetcar.
I mean... ok. But DC isn't exactly the best example of that considering the size and quality of the metro. Seems like they've demonstrated a genuine interest in rail.
Building trolley or light rail lines that do not go where people want to go is not a good place to spend transit capital dollars. If the line gets built and then people do not use it only makes it harder to get more lines or as you stated getting more dollars to expand the line to provide a more meaningful destination. Planers must insist that the line gets built only if there is a reasonable chance for meaningful ridership.
As planned, the H-Benning streetcar was intended to be extended west of WUS (Washington Union Station) near the western extreme of K-Street NW near Whitehurst Pkwy. As such, the concept was to connect a special redevelopment district ─ the H-Street NE / Benning Rd Corridor ─ to the Georgetown district, with some dedicated pathway along K-St, thereby creating a fixed-guideway cross-town line.
The primary issue is in garnering the massive needed funding, as well as in dealing with political pushback and NIMBYs along that route extension. Without that much longer western leg, the H-Benning streetcar line is basically a mere transit toy. I rode it several times in 2018. Another issue is that its connection with WUS is very inconvenient, due to the extended distance between the Hopscotch Bridge (H-St bridge) streetcar termination and the WUS concourse ─ pretty much a good walk.
The proposed Benning Rod extension to the Metro will help connect the line on the east (past Oklahoma Ave. and across the Anacostia River) to the WMATA rapid transit network, but as is stands now, the streetcar start-up project has remained mostly stillborn, except for a 2+mile "demonstration" (as it were). Otherwise, the line serves only riders local to the H-Benning corridor. Without the western extension in full or in part (as with a more recent proposal), I just don't foresee the line every attaining its full potential ─ not even close.
I literally live down the street from that thing. I barely ride it as it is. DC was supposed to have streetcars throughout the city but they canned the Georgetown extension and going forward with the less needed eastern expansion to Benning (M) station.
The non-connection to Union Station is a disgrace. I think any engineer, architect, etc., who designs a transit project should have to walk through a full-size mockup of the facility with a couple of suitcases and two children under 8 years old. If that had been done with the DC streetcar, they may have worked harder to find a way to get the line to go into the station itself. That would allow for connections with Amtrak, MARC, VRE and the Metro Red Line. Putting people off the car on a stupid bridge that's exposed to the weather is asinine.
It was supposed to be MUCH larger, but then some people blocked it.
I remember DC streetcars 70 years ago. Capitol Transit. DC Transit. All over the city.
Considering how long it took them to get this short line up and running, their grand vision of 35 miles of line would take around 150 years to realize.
really just a demonstration of why it needs proper funding and effort behind it.
@@Joesolo13 Lls
I would like to think if DC built more street car lines there would be less hate for the H Street line. Maybe not.
I also find the argument that the H Street line only serves H Street as....interesting.
yeah i think if they want an actually successful system they need more lines and longer lines
if it ran the full length of H street it'd be massively improved
@@Joesolo13 to include Chinatown/downtown
I quite enjoyed riding the DC Streetcar end to end. It was the first time I had ridden a streetcar.
DC streetcars still ran when I was a kid. Loved getting it at Chevy Chase to go into town. Those under street pickup shoes for power were a treat.
been to DC a lot and never knew it had a streetcar! ill def check it out soon!
2:12 Ethiopic Restaurant is fantastic btw!
Thank you for bringing us this very interesting video presentation, it is a shame that the streetcar isn't quite as good as it could be but these facilities do have great potential and one hopes that it could be extended further out where it could gain greater patronage. The streetcars where I live are having an extension built and is due to open for public use in Spring of next year, the part that is presently in use is immensely popular. Of course these systems have great environmental credentials.
I've been riding the streetcar more recently and one thing to note is how running in mixed traffic adjacent to a parking lane(without signal priority at points where it needs to change lanes) really fucks it up. If it could end the signal on 3rd and H quickly it would boost the quality of life dramatically. Further, if they could do something about the double parked cars(a loading zone) or very immediate enforcement, then instead of it taking 10 minutes to go less than a mile it could do so much faster and much more effectively
Hearing Caleb use the term ragequit was delightfully unexpected. It’s hard for me to even imagine what that would look like coming from one of the least rageful and most patient creators on youtube lmao
Nothing like Toronto ❤ we kept most of our network
American streetcars tend to be let down by a lack of strong priority at traffic signals. Just permitting greater priority at signals for late streetcars would go a long way towards making the lines more attractive, by allowing them to tighten up the schedules. As it stands, they don't really demonstrate any of the inherent advantages of streetcars compared to buses.
I believe the streetcar is going to be extended across the bridge, when they rehabilitate it, to meet with the blue line.
No, to Benning 🔵⚪️.
@@MrJamieBattle ohh ok I guess I got my stations confused.
Was just about to ask this question why it's so far away from the union station platforms. Hopefully it will be much walker straight forward to the streetcar.
@@DeltaFish11 They plan to redo the H st bridge which that stop is on, and Union Station is being redeveloped within the next 20 years.
Hopefully the Georgetown line does materialize one of these days, I have hope!
i wonder if there’s a streetcar network that is both modern and as efficient like the legacy streetcar networks?
Portland? Tucson, maybe?
Toronto could be a contender with a robust streetcar network based on a legacy system.
philadelphia? but that is an older network so it might not count
Toronto, Melbourne and San Francisco never fully shut down their streetcar networks from the past so they are probably your best examples... Edmonton my hometown used to have over 75 km in a city of 50,000 people alone back in the day before streetcars were scrapped in 1951... Now the city has 1,000,000+ within the core and 1.5M in the metro give or take and now we're playing catch up rebuilding and expanding our train networks to compensate... So next time y'all fill up on Alberta crude remember at least a tiny tiny portion is going to rebuild our LRT in the capital... And yes... ugh... Calgary! ;-)
@@brunhildevalkyrie And between PTC and SEPTA's ineptitude and NCL's predation in the 1950s, Philly's system is a shadow of what it once was. The only serious operations within the city limits are the lines that run underground before fanning out to W. Philly. The longstanding rumor is that they survived only because PTC/NCL couldn't figure out how to put diesel buses in the tunnels.
The only good news is that the (relatively) new team under CEO Leslie Richards has active plans to acquire new streetcars as well as make some *very* limited extensions to a few lines that had been truncated by PTC/NCL.
The issue is they put the streetcar in the right lane in an area where Uber drivers and food pickups mean people park with their hazards there. If DC had put it in the left lane or, better, given it its own lane, the streetcar would probably be booming and they'd be mocking up plans to add more. Instead, its slower than walking due to long stops and having to follow traffic.
And DC refuses to tow people illegally parked cars.
I would like to ride this!
I didn't even know it existed
have you been to the Connecticut trolley museum?
I've been to Shore Line, but not that one yet!
This is by far the worst designed line, middle of a bridge to no where, didn’t even go far enough to link with the metro. Plus the cars (I’ve worked on them) are some of the most thrown together thing ever! With that being said, no one can deni what it has brought to the community, The areas along the line have increased in price and is coming back. (New building, restraints, stores, ex) This is what rail transportation does. No matter how it’s set it. It’ll bring something to a community with opportunity.
Is there plans to extend it across the bridge?
Answer: why not
True answer: they built it with good bones so they could extend it and become based and transit pilled
People took one look at the disruption of business and traffic and wanted no parts of it. Similar to when the green line was being built in the 80’s. Folks and new transplants weren’t here to see how businesses were impacted and crashed during that construction. So the NIMBYs won’t let that service be great. It was supposed to go from Union Station to Minnesota Ave/Deanwood area which is largely void of public transportation and could use it to revitalize that corridor between deanwood and Ft DuPont.
I’m only p!ssed they should’ve built the original lines instead of just h st, also would hate it if the streetcar beside what it is now, doesn’t become a loop around the city like many others that have made their streetcar lanes look like a downtown transit way that doesn’t even connect curtain neighborhoods. Only downtown regions. Regardless, they need to take notes from Europe. They have potential, BUT anything made in the states isn’t well thought out, but I can dream though.
The question is: How is the DC Streetcar?
Metrobus X2 >>>> Dc Streetcar😂
The problem with modern "streetcars" in America is that they are used to gentrify older areas by offering a retro-futuristic version of America that barely existed for a few years and... nothing more. They aren't built as suburban to downtown commuter lines like they should... And they aren't used as BRT replacements like they should... Or even pre-metro style half-hearted attempts at full mass transit... It's a sad jack of all trades master of none prospect really... And it's not the trains fault... Just the planners of the systems that aren't entirely honest about their intentions... Still it looks cool and all! ;-)
An example? Edmonton, my hometown, is opening 2 years late a modern streetcar line designed to replicate an older legacy system that was shut down in 1951... We opened a Frankfurt-style U-bahn system in the 1978 and slowly expanded it since BUT... new flaky planners took over at city hall and now we're getting a slower and more expensive streetcar that connects a New Town development called Mill Woods with the rest of the city and will run slower than the existing bus service it replaces... Yes it looks good and will kick off a cluster of skyscraper developments at our plethora of dying malls and housing estates but at twice the price and half the utility... SMH...
First?
Wearing a mask out in the open like that? Really? Have we learnt nothing over the past 2 years?
I like the street car but definitely needs expansion in both directions.