The 1599 Geneva Bible, from Tolle Lege Press
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- A review of Tolle Lege Press's 1599 Geneva Bible. This edition is not a facsimile. Instead, it has a modern typeface with a twin column, verse-by-verse layout. This Bible includes all the footnotes from the original 1599 Geneva, but now they are much easier to read. In this video I show differences between the Tolle Lege Press edition and a facsimile. I also highlight differences between the 1560 and 1599 Geneva Bibles. And I make a few remarks about the Textus Receptus, Dr. James White, and Revelation 16.5. ISBN 9780975484692 0975484699
Contents
00:00 Details (dimensions, margins, layout, font ...), three charts
00:56 The ISBNs
01:10 Size compared to the Hendrickson 1560 Geneva Bible facsimile
01:33 Size compared to a facsimile 1599 Geneva Bible
02:05 Size compared to the Crossway ESV Thinline Reference Bible
02:25 Page layout
03:36 The font in the text
05:10 The font in the references, and in the notes
05:27 The paper
06:14 Print non-uniformity
08:35 A Form of Prayer
09:00 A glossary
10:12 The head and tail bands
10:37 Sewn binding; the book lies flat
11:23 The family register
11:50 The copyright page
12:24 The table of contents
13:00 The foreward
13:24 The preface
13:50 A note to the modern reader
14:04 The history and impact of the Geneva Bible
14:35 To the Christian reader
16:12 A bit of history -- the Geneva Bible and Mary Tudor (Bloody Mary), plus King James the First's opinion of the Geneva Bible
16:25 The font compared to a 1599 facsimile
17:18 The font compared to Hendrickson's 1560 facsimile
18:15 A close-up view of the font
19:35 The font compared to the Oxford Brevier Blackface
20:12 1560 or 1599? A sample of differences in the notes
24:37 How the Geneva Bible changed between 1560 and 1599 -- changes in Romans
26:23 What the Tolle Lege Press edition leaves out
28:47 The quality of the wood cuts
29:33 Revelation 16.5, James White, and the Textus Receptus
32:08 Revelation 16.5 and Stephanus 1550
33:16 Summary
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I started reading this Bible translation recently and I really like it, especially the annotations. I've read The Bible in my mother tongue up until recently, so I'm excited to compare the "feeling" of the 16th century English to modern and renaissance Polish (Jakub Wujek's translation). Most Polish translations are unfortunately heavily Catholic-oriented and there are very few alternatives. God bless you Mr. Jones, your' videos are very informative!
Thank you for those kind words, and may God bless you and yours!
I have a Tolle Lege American Heritage Geneva Bible, which is bigger than the Calvin Legacy edition with larger print. Someone needs to do a Giant print Geneva Bible. A lot of us use Giant print Bibles.
Thanks for that passing along that information about the American Heritage Geneva Bible's font size, Franciscus.
Great review, I just bought one rebound today, can’t wait to read through looks like an amazing bible.
Excellent video brother, very helpful for me deciding which version of this OG Bible to go with. Def gonna have to go with the Hendrickson 1560
Thank you for the encouraging comment!
@@RGrantJones :)
Australian here. This comment comes a little pre-mature, as I still await my copy of 1599 Geneva Bible Patriot's Edition from Tolle Lege Press (and first Geneva copy, too!), but I am certainly looking forward to this. I have been on KJV for a very, very long time (most of my adult and teen life).. sorely defended it and explored it on the basis on how much verse retention it bore against modern bibles that plain cut material out, or even changed things to make rather Satanic connotations or "New World Order" references *shiver*. (which on a Revelation 22 level make me quite hard ball for the KJV, just on those bases). I know most English bibles are going to around 90-95% faithful to the OG languages (if it's a decent copy), still, I learned a lot from the KJV, bearing two of them currently (both of them from Thomas Nelson publishers).
My main witness is that I learned both ways from the KJV... I took the criticisms, I either found or heard, on board and studied them. I analysed the KJV I held in physical with materials and criticism I found online and did my personal best to "lay it out straight" for myself... I suppose "studying to show myself approved", being under 35 years of age.
To that end, I can confidently say my study of the English text (in KJV) (going to the Hebrew/Greek for clarity or to uproot my presumption of what I thought it meant because "English", gave me even more to cling to.. gotta love Exegesis and the simplification of the study process that Hermeneutics offers). I love God's word, really. I've compared various times when a contention came up. I can confidently say that I enjoyed a peculiar learning curve to define what a newer KJV SHOULD say compared to older versions, by holding onto a newer, (maybe?), more dodgy copy -- essentially, whether I read a decent KJV or a munted manuscript, I learned what it ought to say and so forth-- verse retention, amendment or omission, which has plenty of doctrinal weight towards being properly instructed by the Torah, Prophets, the Gospels and letters to the churches: you don't believe what you don't get taught or what you don't read to then know and work on until you "get it"..
Recently, I came into the knowledge that the KJV was the legal Bible of the Commonwealth realms and as such was heavily legal in its applicable use. I am not American, but I am quite fond of Constitutional Republic model knowing that that was God's intention for ancient Israel, despite their constant complaint to have human kings (and it went to pot from there). Granted, the Supreme Law that governed Israel was Covenant by Torah, unlike the appropriate-for-a-melting-pot idea that produces the United States of America. While I live in my motherland of Australia, I can safely say on the Bible, Common Sense (Paine), and through adoration for the US Constitution and Bill of Rights in its totality... I ain't no Monarchist. Christ is my King, the rest can ask consent for all I care and respect it if I say no.
After this realisation and learning all about LEGALESE or LEGAL FICTION, the language of the COURT under Maritime/Law of Commerce/Law of the Sea as controlled by the Vatican (which reads like English and means anything but English, so always ask for an interpreter because you don't "Understand" (stand under the authority) of anyone unless you know what you're agreeing to. That's a Black's Law Dictionary reference).. it took a very deep end political turn for me and I realised that just because I live in a Commonwealth, doesn't mean the Bible legally used within it is unbiased... so I examined my options to find an alternative. That is when I literally came across Tolle Lege across from another website that was advertised on an alternative social media. Low and behold, the KJV was allegedly a King James I amended copy of Geneva to remove any pro-God-first-unto-anti-Statism-worship (or, KJV was designed to illicit extreme State compliance under the "Divine Right" of kings heresy)... at this point, you wouldn't need to convince me that Monarchy is a bad idea, I was already on that path.
I feel and believe God has been graciously teaching me, through my "KJV heavy phase", even through records that were repurposed from purer works (referencing Geneva-to-KJV there). I still love the KJV, simply because it got me this far and by virtue of honest study and being impartial on the matters of how much content was retained unto doctrinal accuracy. That and having studied it, which seems an ongoing process with new criticisms I find, I "feel" it too. I understand KJV is not perfect, but at the time I was learning from it, it was so much the better than most modernity-laced translations after it including the Non Inspired Version that just about called Lucifer Jesus. Imagine taking a broken tool and learning how it's supposed to work and gaining a natural ability to read it how a poor copy ought to read whilst reading it as it is: that's the sort of dedication I think I gave.
You copped this long comment because I found this video due to me wanting to get a look inside the Geneva because I was simply getting impatient with the shipping, haha!
(and the comments that were already here have instructed me further, so for that, thank you everyone else!)
Edit: I mostly prayed for God to open the door for me to afford Tolle Lege's Patriot Edition as deep down I honestly wanted to read the material the Pilgrims, feeling Monarchic and religious persecution, were reading that textually objected to the then standards from which they were running from.
I loved reading your comment!! It's quite remarkable the journey we travel upon and what we are shown along the way isn't it!!
I have the Geneva 1560 Hendrickson version in hardback. I would love to own a 1599 leather-bound version. I put it in my cart on the Tolle Lege Press website, went to checkout and the delivery on it alone is $114 USD 😱 it's because I'm in the uk 🙈
Secondhand copies are pretty much non existent atm. In total, to get one over to me would cost £170 and that's hoping there's no fees on top !!
How much was your delivery costs in the end?
I love the Geneva Bible, there's something really raw about it and it feels right to own. I do need a more readable version though as my 1560 version is a facsimile version and I am not young so my eyes get fatigued easily.
At this stage I'm collecting different versions of the Bible, to see the differences between them. It's certainly interesting that's for sure!! I hope you get your patriots version through soon! Enjoy and have a blessed day 🕊
@@abigailporter2933 Thanks for your awesome comment! Commonwealth Babies FTW!! (well, Canada's man-child just banned handguns so lets annex the joint)
I was blessed at the first part, and stung on the second..
I had a Prime trial open which meant free shipping, and it was the last copy of the Patriot's Edition from Tolle Lege Press available from an Amazon vendor (yea I know "Amazon", but I ain't made a money and I have to use outlets that service my area, we all know that ;) and at the LAST SECOND that copy being the final took a clearance discount of 75% so I wasn't paying 300+ for the item, more like under 100 in my currency, which was a steal and a blessing for me.
Though... I stopped receiving updates for it and after opening a line to the vendor, turned out once it left them for USPS on the way to New Jersey to go to international, it got lost on its first transit out..... and a mate interstate reckons that losing something through USPS/UPS doesn't always mean lost lost, just that you can add 3 months to arrival... which has me so concerned tbh haha...
I took me several fortnights of trying to save unsuccessfully for that Bible, and I prayed that if the Father willed, then I believed there was a copy destined for me... then the discount happened shortly after and I was over board happy about it.. but trying to be faithful that the purchase hasn't been literally lost.
@@truthliberty5695 Did you ever receive your Bible? I really hope so... That would concern me, too. Thanks for sharing your comments.
@@phiangleflip I have not received my Bible yet, no. Last I saw, I got a USPS email well after the fact expressing they were looking for the item based on its tracking number. I hope it comes through..
@@truthliberty5695 Oh my goodness. I really hope it gets to you! I was curious because I've been relatively concerned they'll become unavailable at some point.
God bless you Sir very detailed video, appreciate the time you took.
Thank you for that encouraging comment, John 3.16!
The Tolle Lege version is also for sale at Republicanlegion.com. I got the bonded leather version for $29.95. It came with the Geneva bible, including the Apocrypha, on cd.
I have the leather bound version, also a 2007 printing, and your comments are spot on. My copy seems to have a little less variation in the darkness of the printing though. I like how it has the look and feel of modern Bibles and is very usable.
Thanks for the comment, Steve M. How would you rate the leather?
@@RGrantJones I've only got two Bibles with "genuine leather" with the other being a 1611 facsimile from Hendrickson printed in 2005. By comparison the Hendrickson leather is stiffer, thicker, and harder with a coarse grain. I wouldn't be surprised if it was pig based on what I've read about leathers. So by comparison the Tolle Lege leather in finer grained and more flexible, but no doubt a step below the calfskin version. It certainly gives me the fizz to pick up and handle.
@@SteveM0732 - thanks!
Thanks again for the wonderful in-depth review of these Bibles! Listening to you turn the pages on the 1560 you can tell the paper is much thicker. Do you happen to like the dark red font in modern Cambridge Bibles? Thanks for such a great review!!
Tom - thanks for those kind words. Yes, the Hendrickson 1560 has very nice, thick opaque paper. My copy of the Tolle Lege 1599 is crinkled a bit in the gutter because of the way it's stitched, so it makes something of a racket when I turn its pages. I have a Crossway ESV printed in the same era that has the identical problem. But I haven't seen that issue recently, so perhaps a more modern Tolle Lege 1599 wouldn't be so loud. I can't say I _like_ the dark red in the Cambridge Bibles -- I wish the ink were black throughout -- but it's much better than anything else I've come across. I can use it without going blind!
@@RGrantJones Good! Can't have you going blind, we like your reviews too much 😁
Hi @R.Grant Jones, in your opinion what is the best version of the Geneva and by which publisher. In therms of readability
jeremy - in terms of readability, the Tolle Lege Press editions are the best. They're the only ones I know of that are in a modern font.
Awesome video so well expounded and demonstrated -- just a question. I am interested in buying a Geneva Bible not sure which edition to get 1560 or 1599 - please advice
Thanks for the question! Although the translations differ somewhat, the most significant differences between the two are (1) the 1560 is available with the Apocrypha, while the 1599 generally doesn't include those books; and (2) the 1599 has more detailed, decidedly Reformed notes. If you have no interest in the Apocryphal books, go with the 1599. But if you do, the 1560 edition is the way to go.
@@RGrantJones thank you for your fast feedback -- I will go with 1599 - God Bless.
nice review thanks
Thanks for viewing and commenting, Gypsy!
I would like to get a Geneva Bible can you get it in Large print ?
Are there no woodcut illustrations in this new version?
Thanks for the question, Stuart. There are hazy versions of the title pages for the Old and New Testaments, plus a general title page for the entire Bible. Most of the woodcuts that were present in the original are absent.
Hi Grant! In your opinion, which translation of the Bible is the most accurate rendering of the Holy Scriptures? If you were to pick first and second, which would they be please?
Also, which koine Greek manuscripts were the most trusted, most accurate, and unbiased? Can that be deduced? I know that oldest doesn't always me best, so to cut through the rhetoric that I've been hearing from others, I felt to ask..
Kindly,
Brett
Thanks for the questions! Regarding translation accuracy, I really don't know. I found a relatively objective way to measure 'literalness', but I don't know how to test for accuracy. The most literal English translations that I've examined are the Revised Version of 1885 and the American Standard Version of 1901. But it's easy to see how a literal translation could be inaccurate (e.g., faulty source text).
Regarding the second question, I have no expertise in that area.
Douay-Rheims is the best translation IMHO for accuracy.
Get the LSB (Legacy Standard Bible) and the GNV (Geneva Bible) versions. Get them both, not just one!
ESV/NIV/CSB/NLT bible versions are not as accurate, nor as consistent, nor as literal as the LSB; and thus, at best, should be considered commentary.
Let KJV/NKJV versions RIP in a museum.
When reading the GNV notice the "correctness" in certain verses compared to other Bible translations later created. (I would credit this to be because the drive and motivations of the Geneva version authors was best... but I would be guessing.)
I recommend the 1599 Geneva by Tolle Lege, instead of 1560 Geneva, simply because of modern English, and that the reference notes are more.
The LSB takes into account the Critical Texts (that Geneva doesn't cover at all), is an update to the NASB95, and has the privilege of learning from the criticism/errors of most reputable translations because it's one of the latest releases.
Can you get it in large print ?
In my copy, there's an ellipsis (...) in the footnote at Romans 10.18. It reads "why should I not ... that". Comparing it to my facsimile, it's clear that it should read, "why should I not grant that".
A similar Bible is available here www.christianbook.com/1599-geneva-bible-luther-edition-hardcover/9781938139352/pd/139352 and
here www.amazon.com/1599-Geneva-Bible-Peter-Lillback/dp/1938139356/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546818954&sr=1-4&keywords=geneva+bible
R. Grant Jones is the king James still accurate
Ahh.....yeah! It didn’t just suddenly stop being accurate because there is an older English version.
Great job going through the particulars of this edition!
Hi. Good evening. Where may i buy It? I am from Brazil.
I believe a similar (though not identical) edition can be purchased here: genevabible.com/ . I don't know whether they take international orders. It appears it's available electronically as well.
@@RGrantJones many thanks, you are correct. That is my dream to get Geneva bible's study 1599 from Tollege though i live at Brazil.
Why can Geneva Bible be font 10. As font 7.5 is too small for most people.
How can i buy it?
Thsnks for your kind.
It appears to be difficult to find at the moment. Perhaps Tolle Lege will publish it again at some point.
@@RGrantJones
all right.
there is not arazon.
Amazon
I have a Reformer commemorative edition of this Bible, from Tolle Lege, called the "Lutheran Edition". Any difference is really quite minor.
Oops, that should be "Luther Edition"!
Thanks for the information. That edition is still available for sale at Christian Book Distributors and Amazon.
It just has extras with it (i.e. 95 theses, etc), there is a "patriot edition" as well with different extras (i.e. constitution, etc)
7:41 I didn't know Geneva Bible had that versification difference of 12 verses in 2 John
I've never noticed that myself. But Tolle Lege faithfully represents the 1599 Geneva Bible there. My facsimile (ruclips.net/video/fS95JMmSYag/видео.html&t=) has the same verse division (12 rather than 13).
Does the Geneva have Iesous
( Jesus ) as the writing
My 1560 Geneva has Iefus (capital i)
At Rev 16:5, it is not the Stephanus and Elzever agreeing with the Geneva but the other way around and even more important the reading in the KJV is an emendation taken from Beaz's 1598 eclectic Greek text. That reading is not found in any Greek manuscript. It is unfortunate that many of the emendations from Erasmus also found there way into many translations of this period including the Geneva. The Geneva 1560 NT is taken from the 1557 NT and the first revision you noted was in 1576 by Laurence Tomson. A further revision to the Geneva was in the marginal notes in Revelation by Junius for the 1599 edition on-wards.
I actually have found the Geneva EASIER to understand than the KJV. The following is an example why I prefer the Geneva (GNV) 1599 published to any other bible translation in English:
JOHN 6:36 in the KJV --
KJV: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
And the same verse, but numbered JOHN 3:36 in the GNV 1599:
GNV: He that believeth in the Son, hath everlasting life, and he that obeyeth not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
I can't begin to guess how many times I have heard the KJV version with people saying, "Just believe in Jesus. That's all you need to do," based on John 6:36 in the KJV.
I think it is important to understand that the Tolle Lege Press edition, those who collectively banded together to bring this edition about in the end chose to translate one edition alone rather than to consult many editions rather than risk "an inauthentic pastiche." (There were at least 10 different editions of the Geneva Bible that came out in 1599 alone.) I would love to see a day where MANY of the different editions of the 1599 would be reprinted in modern lettering , spelling and punctuation for the modern reader.
The 1599 Geneva Bible is a horrible translation. It is almost as bad as the 1587 Geneva Bible. The 1560 Geneva Bible is the book that must be read.
Thanks for the comment! Interesting perspective.
@PointOfPeripety Douay-Rheims is the best translation...
@Eremias Ranwolf Douay-Rheims is more readable and more accurate.
KJV is based on less reliable manuscripts.
@Eremias Ranwolf Douay-Rheims doesn't "correct" the KJV...it's pre-dates the KJV, but it's more accurate.
KJV uses the Textus Receptus a flawed greek manuscipt from the middle ages.
KJV was written by heretics so does not have anything to do with Christ's Church and the holy spirit, but the work of men.
Look at the "Lord's Prayer" in the KJV, it has an addition to it, "...for thine is the kingdom and the power and glory for yours now and forever.." which comes from the catholic mass, and has nothing to do with the actual manuscripts.
@YAJUN YUAN - I'm fairly familiar with it. I use it more often than the 1599.
I would love to read a bible that offers evidence of anything spiritual. It's that simple.
And by "evidence" I mean, NOT any hearsay, feelings, faith, beliefs, hopes, coincidences or bible stories written by man.