It breaks my heart to say this but statistics show that sometimes upwards of 95% of Christian men have struggled at some point in their life with porn. Regardless, I'll still say a prayer for you sis, that your future husband either is in that remaining 5% or that he has overcome that struggle by the time he meets you.
don't worry, the ones who watch porn think its ok, so they won't hide it. The ones who actually know its wrong, and hide it, it will come out in their words and behavior. Trust the Lord to guide you.
To this conversation, I would add that looking at pornography counts as Gluttony. Porn is consumed by people whose sexual appetites are unsatisfied. What's worse is that it is addictive in nature, and the porn addict consumes more and more porn to achieve the same high. Perverted thought and tendencies become a way of life leading to destruction. Porn can never adequately fill the need for intimacy; it substitutes lust for the love and human connection that we need.
31:06 So who is the ultimate standard? As long as my wife is “ok” with it, then anything goes? That which is wrong can never be made right by agreement.
When I saw Dennis making these claims a few months back, it very much seemed to me as though he was going out of his way to try to justify his or other’s actions. I was deeply disappointed in him
Prager missed the part where God judges the heart, that His standard is perfection. His messiah, whom he blindly rejects, made it clear that man's heart is wicked. No flesh will be justified by the deeds of the law. It's not just the actions of man, but our very thoughts and desires that are corrupt in God's eyes. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him. You need a righteousness that is not your own, and that's only possible by repenting and trusting in Jesus
This mistake is thinking we as Christians should listen to anything Jews have to say. They openly mock Christ, they think he was nothing more than a troublemaker who deserved to be crucified as he was a common criminal. Why we as Christians care about Jews is ridiculous, stop letting them guilt trip you..
I found out weeks after getting married that my new husband was looking at porn. It was heart wrenching. This sin eventually led to greater sin years later that destroyed our marriage and destroyed me. It was only with God’s help and healing that I got through. So to say that I’m against porn is an understatement and do not believe any woman is ever really ok with it.
Since the internet (even the tell-a-vision) was introduced, the whole of society has only exponentially degraded. Though it can be used for good, its intentions were not originally intended for good. There are patents dating back decades for subliminal electronic emissions to brain wash humans. Believe it or not.
@7:18 I would disagree. "He who looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart" Matt. 5:28, so there has to be a distinction between sexual desire and lust, and lust is exclusively wrong.
There have been multiple times I have seen a woman inappropriately dressed or a movie where there was unexpected nudity, and I immediately avert my eyes. My wife has never asked me to do it, but I do it out of respect for her, and to protect myself from lust. I can’t imagine intentionally looking at playboy, with or without my wife, in order to be sexually filled.
When they spoke of gradations of sin, most Protestants that say “sin is sin” mean that even the “smallest” sin is still sin that makes us guilty before a Holy God and worthy of judgment. It’s more of an acknowledgment that we are all sinners and need a Savior.
Yes. It’s not that we don’t acknowledge that there are worse things that a person could do, it’s that we reject that as an excuse for sin since the standard is perfection. If I find a hair in my soup, it’s not a compelling argument to say “yeah but it’s not as bad as a steaming piece of poop in your soup, though.”
Thank you Nate for doing this. I watched this when it first came out as well as originally saw it on the Daily Wire and made me ask "what in the..." Cant wait to see you tackle this.
I truly appreciate the decision to tackle this debate and topic. I think we as Christians sometimes shy away from publicly talking about these topics. We have to learn to live biblically in all aspects even if it’s uncomfortable.
Thank you Nate for what you do at WD and thank you at WD for all involved in the production of this content. I'm am learning a lot about debating, having conversations, and, another apologetical viewpoint. With all that being said, I thoroughly appreciate closing remarks in this video about Matt.5 scriptural references. As someone who had a serious problem with porn, it is very important for Christians to understand how destructive this behavior is and that it should NOT be taken lightly but most importantly should weighed WITH the bible in mind and NEVER away from it. Thank you for always stressing this to us. I pray the Lord your strength, continued guidance and protection as you serve him. Thank you
“God made men to be variety oriented” is exactly equivalent to a homosexual saying “God made me this way” to justify their perversion. God did not make you that way, sin did. Notice the progression in Romans 1 pointing to homosexuals, “God gave them over to a debased mind”, He doesn’t need to make you that way, you’ll do it all by yourself in your fallen state, which you were conceived in.
Even if it is true that we were made that way, it does not mean we have to act on it. We are also capable of murdering eachother. Does not mean we have to do it. Both are a sin.
@ Both are sin, but implying God made you that way inadvertently is saying God is tempting you with evil, which He cannot. God made man upright, the fall made man m*rderous and gay.
Lust seems to always be used in a negative sense in scripture. I think the distinction would be helpful between lust and healthy sexual desire. Lusting after your wife I think would be something like imagining your wife doing something she wouldn’t do thereby turning her into an object rather than your wife.
@bgstop5260: one interesting thing I found is I looked up the Greek word for "lust" in the New Testament and then found all the other places the same word is used. It turns out it just means "desire". That's it. It's not special word specifically about sexual things. Like Matthew 13:17 says "For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it." The word "longed" there is the same Greek word translated as "lust" in "lust after her" in Matthew 5:28. Or the prodigal son in Luke 15:16, "He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything." Again, "longed" is the same Greek word translated "lusted" in other places. Even Jesus in Luke 22:15 says "And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer." "Desired" is the same word used for lust. Or 1 Peter 1:12 "It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things." The angels "lusted" to look into these things, haha! You can go to the Bible Hub website, type in the reference for Matthew 5:28. When the verse comes up, it should show a page with several Bible version translations of the verse. From there, click on "Greek" in the light grey bar under the blue bars on top, and it will show you the verse spelled out each word in the Greek. Then click on the blue hyperlink to the word "epithymesai" (for "to lust after"), and then on the next page, on the right under "Concordance Entries", you can either click on the blue hyperlink to "Strong's Greek 1937" or the blue hyperlink to "16 occurrences". (The Strong's 1937 link will give you the definition of the Greek word, as well as a bunch of verses it is found in, in verb form. From there you can right-arrow over to Strong's 1939 to see the noun form of "lust' in scripture and the 38 occurrences.) I've found this site very helpful for finding things in scripture and comparing word usages.
@@maxspringer01 I am Greek and this is correct. This "viewing your wife as an object" kind of deal is all new and weird. All this obsession about Lust comes from the English word itself that overtime became a bad word yet in the original texts it means desire. There are kinds of desires like cheating on our wife that we should not have, but all this bull... about lusting for our wives is ridiculous.
This conversation is really triggering to me. I was married for 20 years to a pervert who was never satisfied with me. He did not desire me, he lusted after me. He was very sexually aggressive and abusive. In the early years he brought home porn movies, and wanted to have an open marriage. I can only speak for myself, but I not once felt honored, respected, loved, desired. I felt used and exploited. I don’t think I’m different from other women, and I completely doubt it was ok with his mom that his dad looked at Playboy. I’m sure of it, in fact.
your scriptural interpretation and explanation honestly sounded exactly the same as Matt Frad's in the Prager video, hard for me to see the difference between them. Great video!
A good line I've heard is that attraction is the first look and lust is the second. This would square well with matts airplane analogy, in that the sin is something you actively partake in. i.e you can't accidently lust the same way you can't accidented steal a car, you may have a temptation looking at a nice car but then walking down the road of planning out a robbery all the way to committing it is the sin. Same with lust, seeing someone attractive is out of your control, but then actively fantasizing may lead to an adulators act. We need to distinguish when a desire is a knee jerk reaction and a contemplation or rumination.
Nate, I appreciate the verses you brought to the conversation. Another verse that I think of is in Proverbs, "Delight in the wife of your youth," which I interpret to mean "(even when you're older) delight in the wife of your youth." Love for a lifetime involves this kind of delight.
26:47 even at the very beginning God only made one woman for Adam. And then the Bible goes even further to say that a man is to leave his father and mother with one woman. To be a husband to one woman. I don’t know how much more plain it can be.
@@asas14444 It doesn’t tell you you can. It provides regulations for people who where already doing it. Big difference. At this point you’re probably just looking for excuses.
@tell-me-a-story- it provides regulation? It gives instructions on how to do it! You let her cry for a month, then you CUT her hair and then you marry her.. like she is some sort of an animal.. Go read your bible. Why would it say something like this and not condemn it in the first place? They would kill people for working on Saturday in the old testament but that wasn't sinful enough? Give me a break
Prager is changing and loosening definitions in order to use them for his own POV rather than taking the words seriously. Edit: He's also changing to goalposts a various stages, which is obnoxious.
Dennis lost my subscription and respect when I saw him speak these words. Dudes a perv all the way. He’s that sinner who admits we’re all sinners and we will be forgiven so keep sinning. He doesn’t even make an attempt to explain it’s wrong at all.
Prayer stunned me with his comments when talking with Peterson. I really appreciated Fradd engaging with him over it. He has a lot of keen insight. And your comments and analysis (and advice) round it out to make it top notch. Keep up the great work.
Acknowledging the physical beauty of a woman is not lust. It is the immoral thoughts that you allow to manifest from that point. We are to take every thought into captivity
So you expect him to be perfect? So in this sense you should obey him since he will be the head of the family, and don't you dare say no to something that he tells you to do. If you want your husband to be perfect you should be perfect yourself... So are you perfect? I am not saying that your husband looking at pornography is a good thing but it seems to me you are not even willing to forgive him if that happens.
31:40 “I am more concerned about men having to hide their nature.” Really sums up Prager’s thoughts and views on women and sex. I just feel gross hearing what he has to say. I’d be devastated if my husband wasn’t fully satisfied with me and our marriage. Thank you, Nate, for bringing reason and thoughtful input.
Nate, you want two NON sola scripita people to have this convo like a sola Scriptura Protestant so bad! Haha, not shading or anything. But that isn’t going to happen. Matt Fradd is arguing biblical principles, not biblical verses. And they did both reference specific verses. Just not like an AWANA kid might, chapter and verse. Bless Matt for this, and Lawd Prager doesn’t even agree with his own Judaism.
Yeah, that simplified “just go to the scriptures” assume that you have the correct interpretation. Every Protestant sect believes they have the correct interpretation. Using biblical principles doesn’t mean scripture dumping every time.
@@jesuschristsaves9067Actually it's funny that you say this because other then the way they speak thou's verses the and so in we do have the same book. Except of course the crazy outliers who we'd all agree aren't Christian in there rainbow robes. And those books are the ones that were always accepted cannon where as the catholics have added books for instance if you look at a protestants Bible and a jews we have all the same books (in the old testament)except again the outliars you wouldn't count and they wouldnt but if you look at the catholic Bible you'll find extra books I believe there called the macabees and when you look at the new testament protestants only except the books that were universally accepted and not entered into the church around 500 ad. Another fun fact you guys didn't always pray to Mary either.
Dennis Prager doesn't reject the NT as inspired. He thinks it was inspired. He doesn't think Jesus was the Son of God. He has talked a lot about how much wisdom there is in the NT.
I've always felt weird about Prager. He clearly thinks about a lot of stuff, but it feels like he comes to the wrong conclusion a lot. Him getting this issue so monumentally wrong, and he is still held up as a moral authority, is deeply disturbing.
I love how you finished the conversation with standard of the scriptures. The debate that you reacted to did not based their conversation on the scriptures, so it made the conversation a matter of option with no foundation to come back to
Neither one of them are sola Scriptura, and won’t argue like they are. I found Matt to be very biblical though. Biblically principled, not just throwing “prooftexts”.
Very thought-provoking discussion. I found myself agreeing with each of the parties when they spoke, and then also agreeing with everyone's rebuttals. I will have to re-listen to all of this.
Gen 3:6 "when the woman saw that the tree was [desirable] to make one wise, she took and ate, and gave to her husband and he ate." That word "desirable" is the same Hebrew word for covet in exodus 20. I think you're right on because in genesis 3 we get that same order as James 1:14-15, temptation is being carried away and enticed by "lust", lust when conceived gives birth to sin, is brings death. Great video!
@@jbeard3390 Any kind, really. Realistically, most people start with the mild stuff, but it gets worse and worse, as the former doesn’t do it for them anymore. Eventually you get to stuff that’s truly degenerate.
I can't (well, without ending up writing a short novel) tell you how much I appreciate your analysis in this video. Even without me being near so well-versed in the scripture this rang true to my heart.
Nate thank you for the depth of your analysis of this debate. How you bring all Prager’s comments into the focus on biblical truth, makes God’s word and his expectation of the believer easy to understand and adhere to.
5:55 based upon this man's definition of lust, then you don't lust after your wife. Wives submit to your husband, for your body is not your own but your husband's. Likewise for the husband. Also they're not to defraud each other that Satan hath not opportunity to tempt them
Tangent on Polygamy: What do you do with God telling David He would have granted him MORE WIVES in 2 Samuel 12:8? “And I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.” I, like you, am no polygamist and see how polygamy caused so many issues in scripture. I also personally had a grandfather who was polygamist before he became a Christian, but after conversion one side of his family had a lot of hatred for the other side. This was actually why my father moved from his nation to America to avoid the persecution the other side of the family was doing. So I’m personally aware of the issues of polygamy and that there are NO EXAMPLES of successful polygamy in scripture. But I’m not sure about it being AGAINST scripture, as one could easily read those marriage passages on “one flesh” as not specifying HOW MANY TIMES a man can enter this marriage arrangement with other parties. To the contrary, and against my better judgment, God Himself says He was MARRIED to BOTH ISRAEL and HER SISTER, JUDAH in Jeremiah 3:8 and divorced them both. Just curious if you’ve considered these passages in your conclusion and judgment in these difficult passages. But I’d agree with you on the issue of porn and not really sure why Prager’s opinion is even revered among Christians, but to each his own. Sorry for the sidequest 😅
In those times, when a new king took the throne, the old king's wives became part of his harem so they would not be thrown out in disgrace. That's why Absalom had sex with his father's concubines in front of the whole city.
Solomon: “Why should you be intoxicated, my son, with a forbidden woman and embrace the bosom of an adulteress?” Prager: There’s worse things I could do..
@@xaviervelascosuarez Having that many wives and concubines only adds to the importance of the warning. If a whore is warning you not to be whore, you should perk up instead of dulling down.
No. I would not be okay with it. What it sounds like to me is she was a wife willing to appease her husbands desires regardless of the heartbreak she felt about it.
Love your stuff nate, and I get your directing these new testament passages to us (your audience) but would you do a video directed at torah only people ? Like in polemics I use books that the person engaging trusts like the quran, book of mormon and the Jw translation the new world translation or I can use the Tanak to speak to a person who rejects all the new testament. What from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy ? like you did with the hebrew word in Exodus that does infact imply lust. And well done nate. And as a patreon of yours I don't remember alot of your videos that are 50 minutes long ? Which I love short, medium, long format is all great. I love the david wood and mike winger videos that last 1-4 hours long.
Gonna have to admit WD, this is the one that’s hardest for me. It’s certainly one of the demons that tries to derail me the most. However, your analogy with a car’s crash detection system is just such a perfect analogy for how we should approach our sin, and I’m really looking forward to trying to build my own “crash detection system.” As always, thank you for your words, and God bless you!
Nate you did great pointing to biblical deffinitions. I think both Prager and Fradd kind of missed the defining point of the whole arguement though... Lust is, by biblical and even cultural definition - ILEGITAMATE desire. There are no biblical examples of lust being a positive thing. Desire and Lust are different based on the motivation and context of the acts/thoughts.
I fully agree with the Wise disciples use of James .1;13---16. Still married for 53yr and "active". I had to chuckle at the answer Matt Fradd gave regarding seeing his wife in a Negligee that it would make him "Uncomfortable" Was it his fear that she might turn the lights on I thought! As to the Question of when is it adultery for a married man ? It is when he says " I WOULD IF I COULD"
I haven’t been married, but I pray to be one day. The problem here is that besides not quoting scripture, Prager was raised to believe what he does. He was told that it’s okay to have porn in the home and that it doesn’t affect a marriage at all. Even as a Jewish man, he should know what the Bible says about this topic. There is a line that you should not cross when as a married couple. God does not want people to give into sin and end up perverting their union. God still expects us to have respect for each other and ultimately have God as the head of the marriage. So there should not be any argument about what God expects in this aspect of marriage. God is clear on it. This is an important thing to talk about whether people listening are married or not. We need to stick to what God has revealed to us in the word. Otherwise we are giving into the world.
52:55 - Right Here, I need Clarification From the positions presented Prager, Fradd, and yours. There is agreement on the stages 1. Temptation of the mind 2. Desire of the will 3. Act of the Body Prager would say 1 and 2 are not sins, only 3 is. Fradd would say 1 is not a sin, but 2 is the deadly sin of Lust, and 3 is the worse sin of adultery. However, after your video, I still was unsure what your position is. I'm assuming since you are against pornography you would say 2 is a sin since it is basically the act of using your will to conjure up feelings under the your control to supplement the temptations that were not under your control, rather than resisting. However your interpretation of Christ's hyperbole seemed to suggest that this would not be a sin, but would just dangeoursly lead one to the greater sin of physical adultery, thus one should avoid lust/pornography not out of fear of committing a mental sin but as a precaution to avoid the bodily sin. Am I misrepresenting your position here? Also, you did not mention whether masturbation would be considered a sin since that is the most likely bodily act that comes from 2., not adultery. Fradd would say 2 is a sin, and masturbation would be an even greater sin. However, since there is no explicit condemnation in scripture of masturbation, would you say that this is also just a stepping stone to the actual sin of physical adultery, or do you consider it a full-blown sin as well.
You say to her, don’t find your value in how your husband makes you feel. He is flesh. Find your value in who God says you are, and in that you will find wisdom to approach the conversation needed with your husband to express your hurt.
I truly love and adore Dennis Prager. But Dennis was taken to the woodshed on this topic by Matt. This, I find, even more interesting because they are so close to each other in their views, Though the line can seem quite murky, these two men are standing on the opposite sides of the murky line.
I hope you mean if someone is purposely tempting. Both Men and Women could be modest in their dress and actions but this does not guarantee someone would not be tempted to them. I do agree that if you are actively trying to seek attention (tempt) there will be consequences.
@@tell-me-a-story- no doubt I would have just prefaced that statement with that. Because some would vilify men and women for “tempting” even if they were being truly modest.
@@ScriptureThoughts91 Yeah, true. people definitely project their own feelings on random people a lot. Instead of taking responsibility for themselves, they blame others. That’s the victim mentality right there.
Thanks for this video. I struggle with porn. I like looking at beautiful women. I am hoping this will help me turn from that. Pray for me to be free from this addiction.
Prager sounds like porn addicted. I’m a single man, who’s struggled with pornography addiction, and I can say without doubt pornography is demonic. If you’re blessed with a loving wife, why would you put her through that type of addiction? Love your wife! Be intoxicated with her beauty.
I would like to know how you would interact with Matthew 5:21-22. Here it is definitely explicit that they are liable to judgement. This is the teaching right before lust, I think that it connects because of the same style “ you have heard but I say to you” I affirm the hyperbolic statements of v 29 but none of the statements but I say to you are fence posting statements. So to me, it would be weird to break out of that pattern in verse 28. Love the channel. I am learned a lot of asking questions and getting to the clash :)
It doesn't even sound like Prager is TRYING to make a case for lust based on the Word but rather just saying "Here's my opinion. It's s very unpopular opinion amongst both Christians and Jews, but I thought I'd come on this show and tell you about it anyway 🤷"
Fradd is borrowing a great deal from the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas' 5 volume, Summa Theologica. I own and have read the work and I see many places where his wording follows the work very closely. If you want a hermeneutical key to anything he says, get a digital version, search his terminology and phrases, and you will have the background to his comments. Aquinas' works are a standard for nearly every Catholic official, so this is your reference source when you have them speak.
A lot of people in the comments here are saying that the reason porn or lust wrong is because essentially how it makes people feel, react, or how it regards an individual. All of those things are important but they are the repercussions of what is actually the most important reason. Marriage is a symbol of Gods relationship with His people (those in Christ). When His people stray from God and begin to lust and partake in the ways of the world, God refers to them as “being adulterous” or “playing the harlot”. So when the head of the household (husband) lusts with another woman or commits adultery with her physically, this is a blasphemous representation of God being an adulterer of His own laws and covenant with His bride (His people). When a wife does the same to her husband, she is representing the people of God being adulterous in going after the laws and statutes of the pagan world. Like Nate said- the ultimate foundation of the issue is one that is theological not just a surface level understanding of a human relationship.
Please do not mistake this comment as being as though I approve of what I am about to ask. A subject matter that comes to mind regarding this topic is that of polygamy vs monogamy. I know the Bible gives a clear definition of what marriage is, but does it ever give a limitation to the amount of allotted marriages per individual? Why can't I find God directly condemning polygamy and rather find guidelines and laws given by God within the realm of polygamy? Given this, in Timothy regarding the qualifications of a bishop, would not "man of one wife" be a greater distinguishing characteristic if polygamy were the norm? Also, the 12 tribes of Israel are born of a polygamous relationship of which is never spoken of negatively. Why is this? Moses - 3 wives Jacob - 2 wives and 2 concubines Why weren't these men condemned for this if it were a sin? I know Deuteronomy says not to multiply unto thyself wives, but in the same breath says not to multiply money. Should you only ever have $1 to your name? Also, if God gave a correct means of practicing polygamy, would it be a contradiction to say it is wrong as a whole?
I think it is odd you are putting sola scriptura on two groups who dont believe in that. Also Catholics dont combine commandment 9 and 10. Women are not property.
I agree. Sometimes the Protestant “sola scriptura” conviction becomes so insular and circular that dialoguing with different believers becomes nigh impossible. Matt consistently tried to make a natural law case against pornography, which *could* have been backed by scripture, but I think might have lost half the audience if it had been. That’s not to say that it shouldn’t be, nor to say that scripture isn’t important. But if the only recourse the Protestant has in a debate is to turn to scripture, debating someone who holds different beliefs isn’t going to be fruitful. Natural law is rooted in reason and nature, something common to all irrespective of beliefs. So sola scriptura is great for confirming what you already believe, but does little by way of laying out a convincing argument for a nonbeliever (or someone of a different faith).
I'm a woman and I've been plagued by sexual sin since before I can even remember, even if I might not have understood it for what it was until recently. The havoc porn or sexual sin of any kind can cause on a person and their relationships is very near irreparable. Even though I have struggled with porn in my past, I would absolutely not be okay with my husband looking at it and neither should he be okay with me if I did, not least because if I willed his good looking at porn is the farthest thing from that.
Interesting Prager referred to breasts/genitalia as “privates,” but didn’t understand that showing them for all to see is contradictory to “privates.” He knows they aren’t suppose to be revealed, yet is attached to this particular sin and trying to rationalize it
Would be interested to see your thoughts on Jonathan Sheffield v Bart Ehrman on NT churches having the wrong Text. Long & detailed, charismatic v more dry.
You can see where his issue lies with this. How many times has he brought up the example of his mother, because he values her he has taken her "example" as truth. But truthfully as you mentioned did she really say the way she felt about it? Because NO woman who truly loves her man wants to see him lusting over ANYONE else. Also speaking from a person as myself who used to be addicted to pornography something I was exposed to at a young age it is devastating to a young boy. For the majority of my life it caused depression and many other negative effects. It was ONLY Jesus that delivered me from this evil and to say that watching chicks in bikinis is ok and to even desire that and ask for that is wrong. It creates a desire to see more and NOT to appreciate your wife or partner. From my point I had to rid myself from all forms of nakedness, I choose not to indulge in the smallest because it leads to wanting more. My desire now is only for my wife. You should not want to even look at anything else. Do I see beautiful women at my gym? Of course! But do I choose to look and stare, NO! My eyes are for my wife alone. Porn is a disease and breaks down so much in man.
I am aware I'm in the minority here, but tbh I can actually fully underatand if his mother was actually ok with it, because I am the same way. My boyfriend does things like when he sees other women he finds attractive during his day, he will always tell me, because they usually look like me and make him think of me, therefor want to tell me, and I feel confident enough both individually and with how he treats me that I 100% believe he only has REAL eyes for me. He does have some guilt and apologize sometimes feeling like it's odd, but it honestly does not bother me, makes me feel good actually
38:00 I agree 100% nate.. I have been addicted to porn since basically 18 or 20 years old.. I'm 42. I've come to Christ about 2 months ago and it really weighed on my heart.. I had a little struggle the first month and a half removing it from my sight.. but all of a sudden I went 2 and a half weeks and barely thought of it.. I did slip up one time since, so in about a month to month and a half I've viewed in 2 or 3 times total rather than 3 times a week. The one time I did do it I had immediate regrets .. all this said I have never been married. So I can say with confidence, if I was in a happy loving marriage I would feel like I was cheating for sure. Even single it feels wrong..
A little compromise here, a little compromise there....is compromise everywhere. Same as lie.... start with one small, you must cover it with another one.... and one... and one...bigger...
The way it reads to me is that God prefers the union of marriage to be for his Glory and his will. Lust, attraction, etc., was not in the natural plan of God for us but because it entered the world and therefore our flesh, God has allowed it only between a marriage - however, he still warns us that it is best to join together for his glory and not primarily to please our flesh. The union built for his glory is built on a better foundation than one built for our own flesh and desires.
I am a nineteen year old girl and I am praying everyday that there is a good guy out there who will not be interested in watching p*rn
It breaks my heart to say this but statistics show that sometimes upwards of 95% of Christian men have struggled at some point in their life with porn. Regardless, I'll still say a prayer for you sis, that your future husband either is in that remaining 5% or that he has overcome that struggle by the time he meets you.
@@Stutz91 thanks 🙏
My husband doesn't like porn. So, yes, there is hope.
Yeah, it sucks how prevalent it is
don't worry, the ones who watch porn think its ok, so they won't hide it. The ones who actually know its wrong, and hide it, it will come out in their words and behavior. Trust the Lord to guide you.
To this conversation, I would add that looking at pornography counts as Gluttony. Porn is consumed by people whose sexual appetites are unsatisfied. What's worse is that it is addictive in nature, and the porn addict consumes more and more porn to achieve the same high. Perverted thought and tendencies become a way of life leading to destruction. Porn can never adequately fill the need for intimacy; it substitutes lust for the love and human connection that we need.
31:06
So who is the ultimate standard? As long as my wife is “ok” with it, then anything goes? That which is wrong can never be made right by agreement.
For the record, I would be terribly upset if my spouse was looking at anyone else in the way he had promised would only be for me.
When I saw Dennis making these claims a few months back, it very much seemed to me as though he was going out of his way to try to justify his or other’s actions. I was deeply disappointed in him
He's a Jew. What do you expect?
I lost all respect for him. And I was shocked.
He's not a Christian, so it's not surprising.
Sounds like you missed his point.
@@AngelaItsmeThat's weird. Why would one disagreement with Dennis make you lose all respect for him?
Prager missed the part where God judges the heart, that His standard is perfection. His messiah, whom he blindly rejects, made it clear that man's heart is wicked. No flesh will be justified by the deeds of the law. It's not just the actions of man, but our very thoughts and desires that are corrupt in God's eyes. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him. You need a righteousness that is not your own, and that's only possible by repenting and trusting in Jesus
This mistake is thinking we as Christians should listen to anything Jews have to say. They openly mock Christ, they think he was nothing more than a troublemaker who deserved to be crucified as he was a common criminal. Why we as Christians care about Jews is ridiculous, stop letting them guilt trip you..
”The problem with pornography is not that it shows too much, it’s that it shows too little” - Saint John Paul II
"There is no dignity when the human dimension is eliminated from the person. In short, ..."
That's brilliant!
Not a fan of any pope, but that is a good statement.
@lindajohnson4204 what about the man Christ puts in charge of his church on earth, makes you "not a fan"
Lol.. too many ways. @christopherpowell1950
The reason why pornography is wrong is that we are not to treat a who like a what.
I found out weeks after getting married that my new husband was looking at porn. It was heart wrenching. This sin eventually led to greater sin years later that destroyed our marriage and destroyed me. It was only with God’s help and healing that I got through. So to say that I’m against porn is an understatement and do not believe any woman is ever really ok with it.
so it was all his fault was it?
As someone who struggles with it, yes. Unless she was literally abusive, it’s always the man’s fault entirely.
@@tromboneman4517 its never someone's fault entirely.
Nice trick he played on you.
😞
Doesn’t let you know until you’re already stuck with him.
@@asas14444
Yeah he chose to watch porn and not tell her till she was stuck with him.
That’s creepy as hell.
pornography is one of the reasons i believe the internet is a net negative for the world.
Our nation is run by people like the Prager guy. If it was ran by Christians we wouldn't have these problems
Since the internet (even the tell-a-vision) was introduced, the whole of society has only exponentially degraded. Though it can be used for good, its intentions were not originally intended for good. There are patents dating back decades for subliminal electronic emissions to brain wash humans. Believe it or not.
And Tik Tok
@@bigga5406that's part of the internet.
God bless you Nate, and your commitment to prioritizing scripture as our teacher! I learn so much from you to apply in my own studies.
OK, I know this has nothing to do with what you just said, but you have a great user name!
@7:18 I would disagree. "He who looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart" Matt. 5:28, so there has to be a distinction between sexual desire and lust, and lust is exclusively wrong.
There have been multiple times I have seen a woman inappropriately dressed or a movie where there was unexpected nudity, and I immediately avert my eyes.
My wife has never asked me to do it, but I do it out of respect for her, and to protect myself from lust.
I can’t imagine intentionally looking at playboy, with or without my wife, in order to be sexually filled.
When they spoke of gradations of sin, most Protestants that say “sin is sin” mean that even the “smallest” sin is still sin that makes us guilty before a Holy God and worthy of judgment. It’s more of an acknowledgment that we are all sinners and need a Savior.
Yes. It’s not that we don’t acknowledge that there are worse things that a person could do, it’s that we reject that as an excuse for sin since the standard is perfection.
If I find a hair in my soup, it’s not a compelling argument to say “yeah but it’s not as bad as a steaming piece of poop in your soup, though.”
sin is deadly serious, it should be treated as such
Thank you Nate for doing this. I watched this when it first came out as well as originally saw it on the Daily Wire and made me ask "what in the..." Cant wait to see you tackle this.
I truly appreciate the decision to tackle this debate and topic. I think we as Christians sometimes shy away from publicly talking about these topics. We have to learn to live biblically in all aspects even if it’s uncomfortable.
Thank you Nate for what you do at WD and thank you at WD for all involved in the production of this content.
I'm am learning a lot about debating, having conversations, and, another apologetical viewpoint.
With all that being said, I thoroughly appreciate closing remarks in this video about Matt.5 scriptural references.
As someone who had a serious problem with porn, it is very important for Christians to understand how destructive this behavior is and that it should NOT be taken lightly but most importantly should weighed WITH the bible in mind and NEVER away from it. Thank you for always stressing this to us.
I pray the Lord your strength, continued guidance and protection as you serve him.
Thank you
“God made men to be variety oriented” is exactly equivalent to a homosexual saying “God made me this way” to justify their perversion. God did not make you that way, sin did. Notice the progression in Romans 1 pointing to homosexuals, “God gave them over to a debased mind”, He doesn’t need to make you that way, you’ll do it all by yourself in your fallen state, which you were conceived in.
Even if it is true that we were made that way, it does not mean we have to act on it. We are also capable of murdering eachother. Does not mean we have to do it. Both are a sin.
@ Both are sin, but implying God made you that way inadvertently is saying God is tempting you with evil, which He cannot. God made man upright, the fall made man m*rderous and gay.
My first video of yours and I’m so blessed to have this come up on my feed!
Lust seems to always be used in a negative sense in scripture. I think the distinction would be helpful between lust and healthy sexual desire. Lusting after your wife I think would be something like imagining your wife doing something she wouldn’t do thereby turning her into an object rather than your wife.
@bgstop5260: one interesting thing I found is I looked up the Greek word for "lust" in the New Testament and then found all the other places the same word is used. It turns out it just means "desire". That's it. It's not special word specifically about sexual things.
Like Matthew 13:17 says "For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it." The word "longed" there is the same Greek word translated as "lust" in "lust after her" in Matthew 5:28.
Or the prodigal son in Luke 15:16, "He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything." Again, "longed" is the same Greek word translated "lusted" in other places.
Even Jesus in Luke 22:15 says "And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer." "Desired" is the same word used for lust.
Or 1 Peter 1:12 "It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things." The angels "lusted" to look into these things, haha!
You can go to the Bible Hub website, type in the reference for Matthew 5:28. When the verse comes up, it should show a page with several Bible version translations of the verse. From there, click on "Greek" in the light grey bar under the blue bars on top, and it will show you the verse spelled out each word in the Greek. Then click on the blue hyperlink to the word "epithymesai" (for "to lust after"), and then on the next page, on the right under "Concordance Entries", you can either click on the blue hyperlink to "Strong's Greek 1937" or the blue hyperlink to "16 occurrences". (The Strong's 1937 link will give you the definition of the Greek word, as well as a bunch of verses it is found in, in verb form. From there you can right-arrow over to Strong's 1939 to see the noun form of "lust' in scripture and the 38 occurrences.) I've found this site very helpful for finding things in scripture and comparing word usages.
@@maxspringer01 I am Greek and this is correct. This "viewing your wife as an object" kind of deal is all new and weird. All this obsession about Lust comes from the English word itself that overtime became a bad word yet in the original texts it means desire. There are kinds of desires like cheating on our wife that we should not have, but all this bull... about lusting for our wives is ridiculous.
This conversation is really triggering to me. I was married for 20 years to a pervert who was never satisfied with me. He did not desire me, he lusted after me. He was very sexually aggressive and abusive. In the early years he brought home porn movies, and wanted to have an open marriage. I can only speak for myself, but I not once felt honored, respected, loved, desired. I felt used and exploited. I don’t think I’m different from other women, and I completely doubt it was ok with his mom that his dad looked at Playboy. I’m sure of it, in fact.
29:46 Read Theology of the Body
your scriptural interpretation and explanation honestly sounded exactly the same as Matt Frad's in the Prager video, hard for me to see the difference between them. Great video!
Nate, thanks for the variety of topics you cover. We face so many obstacles as Christians, and you confront each one head-on. Keep doing your ministry
A good line I've heard is that attraction is the first look and lust is the second. This would square well with matts airplane analogy, in that the sin is something you actively partake in. i.e you can't accidently lust the same way you can't accidented steal a car, you may have a temptation looking at a nice car but then walking down the road of planning out a robbery all the way to committing it is the sin. Same with lust, seeing someone attractive is out of your control, but then actively fantasizing may lead to an adulators act. We need to distinguish when a desire is a knee jerk reaction and a contemplation or rumination.
Perfect 👏 👏 👏
Nate, I appreciate the verses you brought to the conversation. Another verse that I think of is in Proverbs, "Delight in the wife of your youth," which I interpret to mean "(even when you're older) delight in the wife of your youth." Love for a lifetime involves this kind of delight.
26:47 even at the very beginning God only made one woman for Adam. And then the Bible goes even further to say that a man is to leave his father and mother with one woman. To be a husband to one woman. I don’t know how much more plain it can be.
the bible also say that you can marry a slave and take her as your woman and have multiple women.. In the old testament. So go figure
@@asas14444
It doesn’t tell you you can.
It provides regulations for people who where already doing it.
Big difference.
At this point you’re probably just looking for excuses.
@tell-me-a-story- it provides regulation? It gives instructions on how to do it! You let her cry for a month, then you CUT her hair and then you marry her.. like she is some sort of an animal.. Go read your bible.
Why would it say something like this and not condemn it in the first place? They would kill people for working on Saturday in the old testament but that wasn't sinful enough? Give me a break
Prager is changing and loosening definitions in order to use them for his own POV rather than taking the words seriously.
Edit: He's also changing to goalposts a various stages, which is obnoxious.
Dennis lost my subscription and respect when I saw him speak these words. Dudes a perv all the way. He’s that sinner who admits we’re all sinners and we will be forgiven so keep sinning. He doesn’t even make an attempt to explain it’s wrong at all.
Thank you for your excellent, insightful, nuanced discussion on being attracted to something/someone, desire & lust!
Prayer stunned me with his comments when talking with Peterson. I really appreciated Fradd engaging with him over it. He has a lot of keen insight. And your comments and analysis (and advice) round it out to make it top notch.
Keep up the great work.
Acknowledging the physical beauty of a woman is not lust. It is the immoral thoughts that you allow to manifest from that point. We are to take every thought into captivity
I am 100% AGAINST my husband looking at ANYTHING pornography. I will consider it adultery in our marriage.
So you expect him to be perfect? So in this sense you should obey him since he will be the head of the family, and don't you dare say no to something that he tells you to do. If you want your husband to be perfect you should be perfect yourself... So are you perfect? I am not saying that your husband looking at pornography is a good thing but it seems to me you are not even willing to forgive him if that happens.
It's not that hard to not look at pornography@@asas14444
31:40 “I am more concerned about men having to hide their nature.” Really sums up Prager’s thoughts and views on women and sex. I just feel gross hearing what he has to say. I’d be devastated if my husband wasn’t fully satisfied with me and our marriage.
Thank you, Nate, for bringing reason and thoughtful input.
Nate, you want two NON sola scripita people to have this convo like a sola Scriptura Protestant so bad! Haha, not shading or anything. But that isn’t going to happen.
Matt Fradd is arguing biblical principles, not biblical verses. And they did both reference specific verses. Just not like an AWANA kid might, chapter and verse.
Bless Matt for this, and Lawd Prager doesn’t even agree with his own Judaism.
Yay glad I wasn't the only person seeing where his blinders were.
Well put.
Yeah, that simplified “just go to the scriptures” assume that you have the correct interpretation. Every Protestant sect believes they have the correct interpretation. Using biblical principles doesn’t mean scripture dumping every time.
@@jesuschristsaves9067Actually it's funny that you say this because other then the way they speak thou's verses the and so in we do have the same book. Except of course the crazy outliers who we'd all agree aren't Christian in there rainbow robes. And those books are the ones that were always accepted cannon where as the catholics have added books for instance if you look at a protestants Bible and a jews we have all the same books (in the old testament)except again the outliars you wouldn't count and they wouldnt but if you look at the catholic Bible you'll find extra books I believe there called the macabees and when you look at the new testament protestants only except the books that were universally accepted and not entered into the church around 500 ad. Another fun fact you guys didn't always pray to Mary either.
@@person6768
Added books? I think you have it backwards. The Catholic canon precedes the Protestant canon.
Man, I really appreciate your work, I pray that the Lord keeps giving you grace to keep dicipling believers. God bless 👊👊👊👊
Why would you quote NT passages when talking to a Jew who rejects the NT as inspired?
Because it's Gods word.
Because Christ is Lord.
Dennis Prager doesn't reject the NT as inspired. He thinks it was inspired. He doesn't think Jesus was the Son of God. He has talked a lot about how much wisdom there is in the NT.
I've always felt weird about Prager. He clearly thinks about a lot of stuff, but it feels like he comes to the wrong conclusion a lot. Him getting this issue so monumentally wrong, and he is still held up as a moral authority, is deeply disturbing.
I love how you finished the conversation with standard of the scriptures. The debate that you reacted to did not based their conversation on the scriptures, so it made the conversation a matter of option with no foundation to come back to
Neither one of them are sola Scriptura, and won’t argue like they are. I found Matt to be very biblical though. Biblically principled, not just throwing “prooftexts”.
Very thought-provoking discussion. I found myself agreeing with each of the parties when they spoke, and then also agreeing with everyone's rebuttals. I will have to re-listen to all of this.
im not even religious but for some reason im drawn to those type of videos and topics. i enjoyed your commentary.
Thanks for going to the Word, Nate.
Gen 3:6 "when the woman saw that the tree was [desirable] to make one wise, she took and ate, and gave to her husband and he ate."
That word "desirable" is the same Hebrew word for covet in exodus 20.
I think you're right on because in genesis 3 we get that same order as James 1:14-15, temptation is being carried away and enticed by "lust", lust when conceived gives birth to sin, is brings death.
Great video!
It will ABSOLUTELY destroy a man. And through him it will destroy his faith, family, children, drive, sanity, ABSOLUTELY.
What kind of porn are people watching thay causes this
@@jbeard3390
Any kind, really.
Realistically, most people start with the mild stuff, but it gets worse and worse, as the former doesn’t do it for them anymore.
Eventually you get to stuff that’s truly degenerate.
I can't (well, without ending up writing a short novel) tell you how much I appreciate your analysis in this video. Even without me being near so well-versed in the scripture this rang true to my heart.
I agree 100% with you, and my wife agrees 100% with you as well.
Why? Cause we agree with what the Word clearly says/ Teaches..
🙏🏼
"Sex object" in the sense of _object of desire_ is one thing. "Sex object" as mere _thing to be used_ is another.
Nate thank you for the depth of your analysis of this debate. How you bring all Prager’s comments into the focus on biblical truth, makes God’s word and his expectation of the believer easy to understand and adhere to.
"We're all up in this now." Indeed.
5:55 based upon this man's definition of lust, then you don't lust after your wife. Wives submit to your husband, for your body is not your own but your husband's. Likewise for the husband. Also they're not to defraud each other that Satan hath not opportunity to tempt them
great analysis brother. God bless you.
Tangent on Polygamy: What do you do with God telling David He would have granted him MORE WIVES in 2 Samuel 12:8?
“And I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.”
I, like you, am no polygamist and see how polygamy caused so many issues in scripture. I also personally had a grandfather who was polygamist before he became a Christian, but after conversion one side of his family had a lot of hatred for the other side. This was actually why my father moved from his nation to America to avoid the persecution the other side of the family was doing. So I’m personally aware of the issues of polygamy and that there are NO EXAMPLES of successful polygamy in scripture. But I’m not sure about it being AGAINST scripture, as one could easily read those marriage passages on “one flesh” as not specifying HOW MANY TIMES a man can enter this marriage arrangement with other parties.
To the contrary, and against my better judgment, God Himself says He was MARRIED to BOTH ISRAEL and HER SISTER, JUDAH in Jeremiah 3:8 and divorced them both.
Just curious if you’ve considered these passages in your conclusion and judgment in these difficult passages. But I’d agree with you on the issue of porn and not really sure why Prager’s opinion is even revered among Christians, but to each his own.
Sorry for the sidequest 😅
In those times, when a new king took the throne, the old king's wives became part of his harem so they would not be thrown out in disgrace. That's why Absalom had sex with his father's concubines in front of the whole city.
Solomon: “Why should you be intoxicated, my son, with a forbidden woman
and embrace the bosom of an adulteress?”
Prager: There’s worse things I could do..
Your comment literally made me laugh out loud. Not just “lol” but I had to write it out so you understood.
I would tread with caution when citing 700-wives-300-concubines Salomon 😊
@@xaviervelascosuarez Having that many wives and concubines only adds to the importance of the warning. If a whore is warning you not to be whore, you should perk up instead of dulling down.
@@xaviervelascosuarez
I think it gives him more credibility.
He knows from experience how much it messes you up.
No. I would not be okay with it. What it sounds like to me is she was a wife willing to appease her husbands desires regardless of the heartbreak she felt about it.
Love your stuff nate, and I get your directing these new testament passages to us (your audience) but would you do a video directed at torah only people ? Like in polemics I use books that the person engaging trusts like the quran, book of mormon and the Jw translation the new world translation or I can use the Tanak to speak to a person who rejects all the new testament. What from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy ? like you did with the hebrew word in Exodus that does infact imply lust. And well done nate. And as a patreon of yours I don't remember alot of your videos that are 50 minutes long ? Which I love short, medium, long format is all great. I love the david wood and mike winger videos that last 1-4 hours long.
Man!!!! Another notch up in my scale!!! References to The Office?!?!? Keep up the good work brother!!!!!
You need to have these conversations with these people
Gonna have to admit WD, this is the one that’s hardest for me. It’s certainly one of the demons that tries to derail me the most. However, your analogy with a car’s crash detection system is just such a perfect analogy for how we should approach our sin, and I’m really looking forward to trying to build my own “crash detection system.” As always, thank you for your words, and God bless you!
Telling a woman “you think” will immediately shut her off in hearing your response.
Nate you did great pointing to biblical deffinitions. I think both Prager and Fradd kind of missed the defining point of the whole arguement though... Lust is, by biblical and even cultural definition - ILEGITAMATE desire. There are no biblical examples of lust being a positive thing. Desire and Lust are different based on the motivation and context of the acts/thoughts.
Gradations of sin doesn't matter. Any sin seperates you from God.
Unrepentant stapler stealing and un repentant murder sends you to the same place.
I fully agree with the Wise disciples use of James .1;13---16. Still married for 53yr and "active". I had to chuckle at the answer Matt Fradd gave regarding seeing his wife in a Negligee that it would make him "Uncomfortable" Was it his fear that she might turn the lights on I thought! As to the Question of when is it adultery for a married man ? It is when he says " I WOULD IF I COULD"
You were spot on in your commentary. Well said. ✊
This is very interesting indeed .
I haven’t been married, but I pray to be one day. The problem here is that besides not quoting scripture, Prager was raised to believe what he does. He was told that it’s okay to have porn in the home and that it doesn’t affect a marriage at all. Even as a Jewish man, he should know what the Bible says about this topic. There is a line that you should not cross when as a married couple. God does not want people to give into sin and end up perverting their union. God still expects us to have respect for each other and ultimately have God as the head of the marriage. So there should not be any argument about what God expects in this aspect of marriage. God is clear on it. This is an important thing to talk about whether people listening are married or not. We need to stick to what God has revealed to us in the word. Otherwise we are giving into the world.
Jealousy and covetousness are two distinct things...we should understand that
I don't think Prager's Mom was okay with her husband's reading Playboy, she just didn't say anything.
Probably just tolerated it, but didn’t like it.
There's a verse in one of Paul's epistles that calls for the husband to not deny the wife's desires and vice versa. 1 Corinthians 7:3-5
52:55 - Right Here, I need Clarification
From the positions presented Prager, Fradd, and yours. There is agreement on the stages
1. Temptation of the mind
2. Desire of the will
3. Act of the Body
Prager would say 1 and 2 are not sins, only 3 is. Fradd would say 1 is not a sin, but 2 is the deadly sin of Lust, and 3 is the worse sin of adultery.
However, after your video, I still was unsure what your position is. I'm assuming since you are against pornography you would say 2 is a sin since it is basically the act of using your will to conjure up feelings under the your control to supplement the temptations that were not under your control, rather than resisting. However your interpretation of Christ's hyperbole seemed to suggest that this would not be a sin, but would just dangeoursly lead one to the greater sin of physical adultery, thus one should avoid lust/pornography not out of fear of committing a mental sin but as a precaution to avoid the bodily sin. Am I misrepresenting your position here?
Also, you did not mention whether masturbation would be considered a sin since that is the most likely bodily act that comes from 2., not adultery. Fradd would say 2 is a sin, and masturbation would be an even greater sin. However, since there is no explicit condemnation in scripture of masturbation, would you say that this is also just a stepping stone to the actual sin of physical adultery, or do you consider it a full-blown sin as well.
I would say masturbating is a sin bc the only sexual pleasure you are supposed to receive is from your spouse.
I'm having a hard time with the masturbation issue too
You say to her, don’t find your value in how your husband makes you feel. He is flesh. Find your value in who God says you are, and in that you will find wisdom to approach the conversation needed with your husband to express your hurt.
This is helpful. Thank you
I truly love and adore Dennis Prager. But Dennis was taken to the woodshed on this topic by Matt. This, I find, even more interesting because they are so close to each other in their views, Though the line can seem quite murky, these two men are standing on the opposite sides of the murky line.
Tempter and tempted are both guilty of sin in different ways .
Woman be careful
Men be careful
I hope you mean if someone is purposely tempting. Both Men and Women could be modest in their dress and actions but this does not guarantee someone would not be tempted to them. I do agree that if you are actively trying to seek attention (tempt) there will be consequences.
@@ScriptureThoughts91
I think they mean people who take part in porn.
I assume.
@@tell-me-a-story- no doubt I would have just prefaced that statement with that. Because some would vilify men and women for “tempting” even if they were being truly modest.
@@ScriptureThoughts91
Yeah, true.
people definitely project their own feelings on random people a lot.
Instead of taking responsibility for themselves, they blame others.
That’s the victim mentality right there.
Thanks for this video. I struggle with porn. I like looking at beautiful women. I am hoping this will help me turn from that. Pray for me to be free from this addiction.
Underrated channel
Hell no!!!!! Not ok im a woman
I would never consider ever referring to my wife as an object in any way, shape, or form.
Thanks, this helped, Glory be to God
5:23 you just earned mad respect for quoting the office
It seems as if Prager is desperate to justify either his own sin, or the sins of his father, whom he obviously idolizes. This man needs our prayers.
Prager sounds like porn addicted. I’m a single man, who’s struggled with pornography addiction, and I can say without doubt pornography is demonic. If you’re blessed with a loving wife, why would you put her through that type of addiction? Love your wife! Be intoxicated with her beauty.
I would like to know how you would interact with Matthew 5:21-22. Here it is definitely explicit that they are liable to judgement. This is the teaching right before lust, I think that it connects because of the same style “ you have heard but I say to you”
I affirm the hyperbolic statements of v 29 but none of the statements but I say to you are fence posting statements. So to me, it would be weird to break out of that pattern in verse 28.
Love the channel. I am learned a lot of asking questions and getting to the clash :)
Song of Songs...
Intentions matter.
Thank you for explaining about the line to which desires become sin... this will help me in my counseling.
If it's all about "variety", I wonder if Dennis Prager's father, in addition to subscribing to Playboy magazine, also salivated over non-Kosher food.
Please do a debate teacher reacts to Daniel vs IP on child Marriage.
But nobody could make a good argument for child marriage.
Such an argument doesn’t exist.
It doesn't even sound like Prager is TRYING to make a case for lust based on the Word but rather just saying "Here's my opinion. It's s very unpopular opinion amongst both Christians and Jews, but I thought I'd come on this show and tell you about it anyway 🤷"
Fradd is borrowing a great deal from the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas' 5 volume, Summa Theologica. I own and have read the work and I see many places where his wording follows the work very closely. If you want a hermeneutical key to anything he says, get a digital version, search his terminology and phrases, and you will have the background to his comments. Aquinas' works are a standard for nearly every Catholic official, so this is your reference source when you have them speak.
Welll his show is called pints with aquinas after all
A lot of people in the comments here are saying that the reason porn or lust wrong is because essentially how it makes people feel, react, or how it regards an individual. All of those things are important but they are the repercussions of what is actually the most important reason. Marriage is a symbol of Gods relationship with His people (those in Christ). When His people stray from God and begin to lust and partake in the ways of the world, God refers to them as “being adulterous” or “playing the harlot”. So when the head of the household (husband) lusts with another woman or commits adultery with her physically, this is a blasphemous representation of God being an adulterer of His own laws and covenant with His bride (His people). When a wife does the same to her husband, she is representing the people of God being adulterous in going after the laws and statutes of the pagan world. Like Nate said- the ultimate foundation of the issue is one that is theological not just a surface level understanding of a human relationship.
Please do not mistake this comment as being as though I approve of what I am about to ask. A subject matter that comes to mind regarding this topic is that of polygamy vs monogamy. I know the Bible gives a clear definition of what marriage is, but does it ever give a limitation to the amount of allotted marriages per individual? Why can't I find God directly condemning polygamy and rather find guidelines and laws given by God within the realm of polygamy? Given this, in Timothy regarding the qualifications of a bishop, would not "man of one wife" be a greater distinguishing characteristic if polygamy were the norm? Also, the 12 tribes of Israel are born of a polygamous relationship of which is never spoken of negatively. Why is this?
Moses - 3 wives
Jacob - 2 wives and 2 concubines
Why weren't these men condemned for this if it were a sin? I know Deuteronomy says not to multiply unto thyself wives, but in the same breath says not to multiply money. Should you only ever have $1 to your name? Also, if God gave a correct means of practicing polygamy, would it be a contradiction to say it is wrong as a whole?
I think it is odd you are putting sola scriptura on two groups who dont believe in that. Also Catholics dont combine commandment 9 and 10. Women are not property.
I agree. Sometimes the Protestant “sola scriptura” conviction becomes so insular and circular that dialoguing with different believers becomes nigh impossible. Matt consistently tried to make a natural law case against pornography, which *could* have been backed by scripture, but I think might have lost half the audience if it had been. That’s not to say that it shouldn’t be, nor to say that scripture isn’t important. But if the only recourse the Protestant has in a debate is to turn to scripture, debating someone who holds different beliefs isn’t going to be fruitful. Natural law is rooted in reason and nature, something common to all irrespective of beliefs. So sola scriptura is great for confirming what you already believe, but does little by way of laying out a convincing argument for a nonbeliever (or someone of a different faith).
Commandment nine is don't bear false witness against your neighbor. I don't recall him combining that with don't covet
I'm a woman and I've been plagued by sexual sin since before I can even remember, even if I might not have understood it for what it was until recently. The havoc porn or sexual sin of any kind can cause on a person and their relationships is very near irreparable. Even though I have struggled with porn in my past, I would absolutely not be okay with my husband looking at it and neither should he be okay with me if I did, not least because if I willed his good looking at porn is the farthest thing from that.
Interesting Prager referred to breasts/genitalia as “privates,” but didn’t understand that showing them for all to see is contradictory to “privates.” He knows they aren’t suppose to be revealed, yet is attached to this particular sin and trying to rationalize it
Would be interested to see your thoughts on Jonathan Sheffield v Bart Ehrman on NT churches having the wrong Text. Long & detailed, charismatic v more dry.
You can see where his issue lies with this. How many times has he brought up the example of his mother, because he values her he has taken her "example" as truth. But truthfully as you mentioned did she really say the way she felt about it? Because NO woman who truly loves her man wants to see him lusting over ANYONE else. Also speaking from a person as myself who used to be addicted to pornography something I was exposed to at a young age it is devastating to a young boy. For the majority of my life it caused depression and many other negative effects. It was ONLY Jesus that delivered me from this evil and to say that watching chicks in bikinis is ok and to even desire that and ask for that is wrong. It creates a desire to see more and NOT to appreciate your wife or partner. From my point I had to rid myself from all forms of nakedness, I choose not to indulge in the smallest because it leads to wanting more. My desire now is only for my wife. You should not want to even look at anything else. Do I see beautiful women at my gym? Of course! But do I choose to look and stare, NO! My eyes are for my wife alone. Porn is a disease and breaks down so much in man.
I love how you articulate everything, Nate! I love your channel! Thank you for all you do!
I am aware I'm in the minority here, but tbh I can actually fully underatand if his mother was actually ok with it, because I am the same way. My boyfriend does things like when he sees other women he finds attractive during his day, he will always tell me, because they usually look like me and make him think of me, therefor want to tell me, and I feel confident enough both individually and with how he treats me that I 100% believe he only has REAL eyes for me. He does have some guilt and apologize sometimes feeling like it's odd, but it honestly does not bother me, makes me feel good actually
And that's not good it almost feels like you're also going to say it's ok to gave sex outside of marriage too
@person6768 no absolutely not. Attraction is still inevitable tho
38:00 I agree 100% nate.. I have been addicted to porn since basically 18 or 20 years old.. I'm 42. I've come to Christ about 2 months ago and it really weighed on my heart.. I had a little struggle the first month and a half removing it from my sight.. but all of a sudden I went 2 and a half weeks and barely thought of it.. I did slip up one time since, so in about a month to month and a half I've viewed in 2 or 3 times total rather than 3 times a week. The one time I did do it I had immediate regrets .. all this said I have never been married. So I can say with confidence, if I was in a happy loving marriage I would feel like I was cheating for sure. Even single it feels wrong..
A little compromise here, a little compromise there....is compromise everywhere.
Same as lie.... start with one small, you must cover it with another one.... and one... and one...bigger...
The way it reads to me is that God prefers the union of marriage to be for his Glory and his will. Lust, attraction, etc., was not in the natural plan of God for us but because it entered the world and therefore our flesh, God has allowed it only between a marriage - however, he still warns us that it is best to join together for his glory and not primarily to please our flesh. The union built for his glory is built on a better foundation than one built for our own flesh and desires.