Ehrman Ending the Beginning
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2024
- Prof. Bart Ehrman PhD is a best-selling author and Biblical scholar currently working on a new webinar specifically addressing Genesis. Sign up for that here:
aronra--ehrman...
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Sign up for Bart Ehrman's webinar on Genesis here:
aronra--ehrman.thrivecart.com/in-the-beginning-tc/
I refuse to pay for anything from Dr Bart until such time as he addresses his academic dishonesty. Misrepresenting the works of other scholars he isn’t familiar w so he can scoff at them is reprehensible and unethical.
@@arsenicjones9125 it certainly has colored my view of him and the validity of anything he says.
@@michvroom8784 I generally like the man. He’s likable, personable and generally a good speaker however that’s no excuse for his unethical actions.
@@arsenicjones9125 exactly.
The primary "reveal" of "The Book of Revelations" is that the "Holy Bible" is written in an allegorical context. Any person who develops an ability to think would recognize that. Then along come the literalists with their assumptions about how an omnipotent being would make it a trivial matter to express their real intent using the fallible means of human language.
I love how Aron is willing to always learn more and seeks the experts out to find the information and shares that information in a clear and easy to digest format for all to see.
Bart get things wrong...I'd say he is intentionally dishonest because the things he claims debunking the Bible are easily answered by Mike Winger here. Bart knows this.
ruclips.net/video/g2ne3ndnVQk/видео.html
@@B_Thornsb5974 he's human for fucks sake, everyone gets things wrong.
@@B_Thornsb5974 religious people tend to be very dishonest.
@@B_Thornsb5974 Cool story bruh.
Aron has been corrected on the definition of faith many times, so he seems to "not" learn some things.
Aye, a video from Aron and Emma with the Doc in the same day!
Thank you Aron and Bart for an interesting discussion of the ancient Biblical tales.
Prof. Ehrman is an absolute joy to listen to.
"People don't like experts until they go to the dentist". Nice.
Not all “experts” actually know what they are doing.
@ Even experts can be brainwashed.
@ And yet the ignorant can achieve mighty intellectual feats. Adam did, after all, name all the animals. I wonder what he originally named the tardigrades...
@Richard Waddington rarely ? Nah medical malpractice kills 2x more than automobiles and that’s not even counting overdoses and addictions from doctors throwing out pain medication to everyones brothers dog.
@ hey how about you don't go to doctors just go to a Faith healer😂😂
I enjoyed his Genesis webinar and look forward to future installments!
Thank you for your honesty, it is lost in the world of Pixel Paradise, falsehoods abound in this medium, I am relieved about your steadfastness in the pursuit to debunk the BS, we need more honest people like you who strive for Honesty, good beer and spicy food and taking the charlatans to the mat!!! All hail AronRa!!
All hail AronRa!!hail AronRa!!hail AronRa!!hail AronRa!!
@Hugh Mass-stiff Of course he does, there's no such thing as a soul.
It's easy to call someone a deceiver. It's another thing to actually have some credibility behind what you're saying. Can you back it up?
@Hugh Mass-stiff he has sacking eyelids. As you get older elastines in the skin deteriorate. He can’t help that.
Also realise that the impression you get from eyes is entirely based on the movements of the tissues surrounding the eyes. Remove the eyelids and all that remains is two static lenses that do not convey any message. Have a nice day!
I recommend you all read the original "Epic of GILGAMESH". The whole epic was recently compiled from several Sumariam clay tablets. It took several because no one tablet had all the content. Understandable when you realize the tablets were written by the Sumariams about 7000 years ago and parts went missing over time.
And the Deluge is a lot more coherent in the Sumerian version.
Your work astounds me Aron, thank you so much for being who and what you are
Excellent conversation Aron Ra and Bart. You two help so much with this nonsense that people peddle so mindlessly.
Misquoting Jesus is an amazing book! I hope Arohas has Dr. Ehrman on again. By the way I can’t wait to get We are Are All Monkeys by Aron Ra.
Been enjoying listening to all of your videos. I was raised extremely strict Catholic. Had problems with understanding and believing. I am the oldest child, so probably explains my stubborn attitude. First thing that I fought against was that I was told was that I would go to hell if I skipped church on sundays. I asked if it was true, regardless on how perfect you behaved, that you would go to hell. You would have to go to confession and mean it, and hope nothing happened to you beforehand. I was 12. The church(es) is/are an insidious scheme to lock one into a behavior and belief by starting with a baptism, followed by church and sunday school weekly, plus Catholic school in order to BRAINWASH you to serve and pay/tithe for the rest of your life. I got away from them by marrying at 16 and moving away. Took many years to overcome that brainwashing and listening to your arguments help remove what was left. Thank you
Very similar to my experience. My Catholic upbringing resulted in much guilt and anguish. I don't like using the word 'hate', but I now hate the Catholic church for what it did to me and continues to do to millions.
Always a pleasure to hear from Bart, he really comes off as an affable, accessible guy.
Plus, his writings are excellent - if you enjoyed Forged, try to find its much expanded, scholarly companion volume Forgery and Counter-Forgery. Fantastic piece of work.
Forged is an awful book. It’s an insult to Ehrman to recommend any of his books on the account of that.
Tell me what I'm missing.
❤
Tell me until I listen.
Explain it in easy terminology, as you do.
Thank you both.
You're prompting great conversation.
'The problem with Eve' would be a great title for a new book Dr E
Bart had a 24 part lecture on The Great Courses. Its excellent. Plus there is a ton of other content.
AronRa, you inspired me to take their Paleontology lecture series. Thanks for that. 😉
Aron Ra, Thankyou and thank Dr. E, great conversation! And Thank you for being, as far as I can tell, the only one who ever mentions the tree of life! Though I've been whining in comments about it, to everyone for years! Usually followed by 'they don't even know their own myths!' 👍🥰💝✌
I know one thing whoever wrote the Book of Genesis never intended for us here in the United States to read it. Considering whoever wrote Genesis had no idea that there's a North American continent.
Exactly, and its funny they only mention things that were in their local vicinity and own region. And only mention things they knew about and when they do stuff they know nothing about they get it completely wrong.
The fact that the oldest surviving continuous culture on the planet down here in Australia failed to notice the creation event, world-wide flood, Tower of Babel or the rise of Egypt despite having been around for tens of thousands of years before the stories in Genesis were supposed to have happened further suggests the writers of Genesis were writing to a select audience.
@@anserbauer309 exactly right and also the Sumerians the 1st civilizations of the Mesopotamian area where so many of other religions from that region copied from. and not too far ahead the Egyptians too they all went completely unaware of the flood and so called creation lol along with native Americans lol
Or a continent with Kangaroos and Koalas and Funnel web spiders and wombats and Platypus's and ...........
ruclips.net/video/1oQ5Jd7p2aY/видео.html you might be overlooking a very important group of people called the San. They've lived for a very long time in South Africa completely oblivious to the flood stories and creation bunk. Further proof that the bible is nothing more than many ancient amalgamated myths with a sprinkling of historical locations and events.
Two of my favorite scholars!
As usual Aron hits it out of the park again and I enjoyed the video very much also as usual~!! Many Thanks for your efforts. 💯✌
Bart Ehrman is really getting around lately! I think he’s appeared on every skeptic channel I follow in the past month.
It's just a shame he is too chicken to debate Richard Carrier on the historicity of Jesus.
He is keenly aware of who is likely to buy his Genesis course.
@@unduloid Too Chicken?
More like has too much integrity. Debate that Carrier clown? What next, waste his time debating Kent Hovind?
@@danieleyre8913
Carrier consistently points out the flaws in Ehrman's research, so Ehrman could at least try to defend his honor as a scientist.
@@unduloid Ah no.
Carrier pulls out all sorts of far-fetched desperate twaddle to reach a sought conclusion and then mental gymnastics to try and validate it. He’s no better than Holocaust deniers, Anti-vaxx’ers, creationists, flat-earth clowns, etc. it’s absurd to even imagine a proper scholar like Ehrman would waste his time with him.
I once had someone cite Bart Ehrman as a contemporary source on the biblical Jesus.
I was unaware of Doctor Ehrmans advanced age and experience
I didn't know that Ehrman was so old.
@@MarshallTheArtist He's aged remarkably well.
That would make him the only one then!
Many people try to explain why life exists, and what happens after we die. I grew up Christian, and have been exposed to Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism. I see the religion tries to explain things we don't know, and from there looks to control behavior in others. I see the same themes in many religions. I appreciate your channel and also Dr. Ehrman.
Ehrman interviews with Aron and Emma on the same day?
Yes please.
I wonder: if the writers knew, in extensive detail, as in; we tell them, the influence the Bible had. Would they still write it? If they knew how much it divides us, scars us, enslaves us. although, you could say that about almost any religion.
That's not how these things work IMO, people already believed first and were totally into their own imagination before writing these books... Even if you showed those things they would possibly still write the books albeit maybe with different contents...
@@Napoleonic_S I agree with you but they probably believed vastly different things until the scriptures were written and thereby became a "unifying " factor. Maybe based on the majority who believed in the stories written down.
@@zakkenwasser65 So? It's still predominantly bad!
Additionally, every benefit of religion can be achieved without religion.
Yep. The writers culture depended on those things
They might say, 'Wait, you're not taking this shit SERIOUSLY, are you? Talking snakes and donkeys?'
Two of my favorite athiests, whom I greatly respect, together discussing the most absurd and controversial book in the Bible, Genesis (well, maybe a tie with Revelation.) Bliss. I wish it was longer.
@@hypotheticalaxolotl "why would you say something so controversial, yet so brave?". Fixed
@@crackheadbiden3273 Everyone should follow Satin. It's a great material.
When I read "Hold no other gods before me", what am I supposed to think? That and other statements in the book lead me to believe that the idea of one god was not the original concept.
When you are seeking to learn from someone, it’s easy to tell if the person speaking is actually intelligent, or just believes themselves to be intelligent…
I know AronRa is worth listening to because he immediately asks to be corrected if he has something wrong.
I’m digging Barts sweater
Seven heads? Sounds like the Hydra.
( I always imagined Hercules in a bar, talking about his fight with the Hydra. And the bartender muttering, 'The drunker this guy gets the more heads this thing had.')
i was talking to a Greek guy,,, he was saying his name wasnt hercules as such, but 'Iracules' - meaning he was angry- so Hercules was actually Mr Furious from Mystery men...
@@andyf4292 Well, we know Hercules was a villain until the Three Stooges set him on the right path.
It is quite simple: God was created by mankind not the other way round
For man loved him self so much he created a god in his own image
@@Refertech101 So true.
And it goes on everyday, how many religions are out there with their version of God. That should tell anyone that it's bullshit.
@@greatone7314 Exactly!
Must be another upcoming Dr. Erhman seminar, as he’s making the rounds on my favorite channels again! 😆 But, of course, I totally don’t mind ; it is always a pleasure when he drops by. If you haven’t seen any of his lectures or read any of his books, you should certainly check out his content. You will learn something, guaranteed.
Yes I noticed The Bart was starting to show up. I wondered why.
👍🏻 I can't get enough of Dr Ehrman.
The one fact that seems to me that is never mentioned is who was reading these texts and why. The elite and priest classes had a reason to write down and use the rules and laws to keep order in society. The illiterate must have been in awe of those who could read and write and therefore took it as fact that the "authority" came from a god.
The dishonesty and self deception of fervent religiosity is plain to see. There are no true defenses that can be built on such a slippery slope. While I don't agree with everything proposed by Nietzsche, I can see exactly why he believed the stance taken by Christianity to be a cowardly posture.
Aaron Ra = Aaron Rocks
Aron et al, I recommend "The Memoirs of God" a book about the gradual evolution of the Old Testament, compared with other Caananeic religions like the texts from Ugarit 1100 BC plus the papyri from Elephantine.
Yeah I kinda figured it was a load of 💩 when I was 12.
Yeah, got kicked out of a bible school when I was like 9 or 10 for asking too many questions. "They" don't like that. I'll bet "Them" don't like it either. You know- the giant ants.
Great interview! I’d caution against using overreaching statements like “… it has no truth in it.” because it can mark us as people prone to hyperbole. It’s good to remember that the most insidious lies are often packaged with a little bit of truth.
Yes, that was a bit abrupt.
@Boris Cuduco You've only added to my point. He said "Genesis", Genesis chapters 1 & 2 in his closing, and Genesis is 11 chapters in length. That is the problem with making large sweeping categorical statements; you end up having to scale your initial statement back by introducing specific chapters and adding "qualifying" statements to clarify the intended context. The second thing to remember is that Genesis is not a science-book to most believers of some intelligence, and many do not read it as exact "history". Some Christians read it as lore and metaphor, and that's okay.
When I am being critical of a book like Genesis, I find it's more *accurate* to state that the majority of the stories told are "fables". This way, those who find spiritual truths in stories and metaphors understand the 'context' of the criticism. I also say "Majority" instead of "all", because when you say "all", some will try to find just one 'unfalsifiable' claim that Genesis makes which will bring the conversation to a stalemate.
The idea here is to focus the discussion on the inaccuracies, fables, and falsehoods without tying your own shoelaces by overreaction in your criticism.
@@ArKritz84 It was wasn’t it? I don’t think it made for good vibes. He should have let his guest have the last word, or simply ended by thanking Dr. Erhman for showing up. Aron’s definitely come across as a lot busier since he got into teaching/academia, but it would be a good idea to strike a comfortable balance with handling his guests better, even if that means doing fewer videos. I’m 100% sure it was unintentional, but it still came across as wrong and a little cheap.
"Satan"/"Hassatan" came from the Persian conquest of the Canaanite-Israelites area, and bringing Zoroastrianism's beliefs along
Peterson said it was literally the first book.
In another myth, Caine became an immortal vampire, whom Lilith took in and raised as her own...
Wait, that's Vampire: The Masquerade lore... does that still count?
Nah, Cain(e) became a great warrior and wizard. I read it in the Cain-books by the late Karl E. Wagner.
Yeah I saw him on the TV show Supernatural so I think he works in Hollywood now. Hehehe
It could also be Interview with the Vampire if you did some gender swapping.
Or are you referring to Commissar Cain, the tall, rogueish, cowardly officer in the 41st Millennium?
@@GoodAvatar-ut5pq Not really, but considering the terrifying and terrible ordeals (especially in the claws of Holy Inquisition inquisitor Amberley Vail) he may be at least a nephew 50th grade away from Caine ...
(oh the other hand, maybe Gunner Jurgen is the true descendant of the biblical Cain ... (having got a smelly mark and being a blank ...))
i love your vids...I learn new shit every time...keep up the great work
Ehrman's books are great. Misquoting Jesus, and the great courses lectures as well (on apocryphal texts I believe)
Thank you!
All of these atheists keep talking about how they had to overcome their conditioning and ingrained Christian beliefs. I was raised by two atheists who taught me to use logic and compassion to understand the world. I dabbled with different beliefs and religions over the years but they never really made sense to me I have believed in much nonsense in my life and probably still do but I keep an open mind and I’m always searching for truth. Thank you both for the education
Neatness - super interesting to hear scholarly opinions on ancient scripture, thanks!
Prof. Ehrman's last comment reminded me of a question that is still confusing me: why is it actually a problem for plants to be created before stars and sol? I know, because Science: chlorophyl, plants need light to grow; however my partner actually had some interesting counter arguments I've never seen explored:
1) plants don't need SUNlight, just LIGHT, which God created previously; and since there were days with a morning and evening, that means there would've been light during the "day" portion, otherwise there wouldn't have been mornings nor evenings.
2) not all vegetation relies on chlorophyl; the question here is what the authors of Genesis considered "plants" in this context: e.g. would funghi be included in the category of "plants" for them? Additionally, some of those are bioluminescent, potentially also solving the light problem for other plants, at least temporarily.
3) would the original text allow for the interpretation that God created plant *seeds* and scattered them all over the world, which is why the next step was creating sol to allow them to grow?
(I'm entirely asking out of genuine curiosity; not just because I trust in Science over fables, but also I grew up Buddhist, so my interpretation of Genesis is probably way different from Christians'.)
Btw: interestingly, both the Catholic priest as well as the Lutheran reverend where I grew up shared interpretations on the snake being *just a snake* and Genesis being meant as a fable and not a literal account of Creation; they also both insisted that evolution is in no way incompatible with God creating the universe and everything, in their opinion evolution is just another tool God had at their disposal - which us humans implement and make use of in Computer Science as "Genetic Algorithms", so they considered it blasphemous to assert God would refuse to use that tool and instead opt to manually create billions of near-identical organisms that appear to have evolved, instead. Because that would be a lot of extra work for no good reason; that is the opposite of smart, and to them God is by definition extremely intelligent, so would never do that. Plus, in that view, evolution isn't even random in any way - God being omniscient would know the exact outcome of jumpstarting evolution; makes me wonder where the US protestants started diverging.
That's the general problem I see in Abrahamic creation myths that also appear in the Quran, and it is that the authors have apparently no clue that day is caused by the sun, therefore day can't exist without it in the first place.
assume this: No sun -> no planet. No planet -> no plant.
OK, clarification: I'm fully aware what the problem is with a LITERAL reading of the story; but as the video pointed out, it was never meant to be taken literally, so what I mean was that the order of creation seems internally consistent from a MYTHICAL point of view.
So: I agree with the explanation for how our solar system formed that science provides! I took astrophysics in Uni, cause it's awesome, lol. It's not even just ANY star, we'd need at least a 3rd. gen star if we want anything more hospitable Mars, so there's like a LOT of stuff that has to be created (and destroyed, repeatedly) for our solar system to even have the basic chemical elements to sustain life. I'm on board with that.
However, from a MYTHICAL point of view, the order of creation makes sense to me. It was my understanding that the JHWH mythos was based at least on a prior fire/volcano/metallurgy deity. So the way I read Genesis, where it says they created the land and light, I was assuming what they meant was that the ground would've been covered in molten lava, while fire storms swept across that flat Earth they imagined. Which would be bright and warm, thus probably allowing for certain plant life to be spawned, which would over time calm the place down a bit; the mythos feels internally consistent to create the sun afterwards, probably by gathering up leftover fire and lava so animals can survive, etc.
That's how the story came across for me - it's necessarily not a literal account, but was meant symbolically. It's obviously wrong and outright impossible from a scientific stand point, but I don't think it's fair to judge a fable that way and I don't think it's inconsistent in the context it was created for. In that mythical framework, light without a sun totally makes sense, no matter how objectively wrong it is. :)
Re 1) so how do you even have light without the sun? Or even a day?
You can take (or magically create) a plant and put it in a pitch dark room for a day and it will be just fine. An evergreen plant will start looking a little sad after a week, a deciduous plant can last a whole winter without sun or leaves. The real problem is what does day or night mean without the Sun?
You to should do this more often, question that I wouldn't have thought of and answer that make sense
This is good stuff. Thank you.
I like these discussions only because of the honesty and intelligence of AronRa and, in this case, the same adjectives seem to hold for his guest.
Otherwise I find it a lot of energy invested in trying to make some sense out of an outdated coding, it’s many spelling and translation errors, and downright misuse and abuse for rotten purposes. We’d better forget and move on. If there is some benevolent higher being taking care of things, what could go wrong? Have faith! (Or do your best yourself).
It has been translated and re translated from and to so many different languages over 4000 odd years it is not surprising that there are so many mistakes in what was probably a marketplace storytellers living at the time.
And bearing that fact in mind it can NEVER be thought of as the literal word of any one person let alone a fictional god.
I just bought that same t-shirt!
Enki was an architect and scientist in Sumerian stories and identified symbolically by two-snakes entwined on a staff: the Caduceus's of Medicine even unto this day and age.
The stories from Sumer were also included in Genesis as the-sons-of-God who took human women as wives and had children with them...the Giants.
Thas an IPA fo sho. Respect. Water can't be turnt into dat lvl of Quality Wine
That's actually an imperial stout.
The take away is that - "EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD BELIEVES NON-SENSE AND WE PROBABLY DO, BUT DON'T RECOGNIZED IT.", remains me of JP. in a debate with SH. "we are all stupid, and some are more stupid than others" ,- except that really stupid people don,t think they are stupid.
It's totally amazing that these two fellas that are polar opposites. prof. Bart Ehrman a Bible scholar and interpreter. and Aron Ra an Atheist, can have such a productive conversation about such a Contradictory book as the Bible. it's a testament to both of these guy's and their incredible intelligence. even though they might have different opinions on the subject. their need for more knowledge allows them to set aside any differences they may have. and with open minds trade information as to better understand the subject without any animosity towards each other. because in the end they ultimately gain more knowledge from each other it's no doubt a win win. this is how great minds work to overcome the issues we face in the world today. I have to say bravo both of you guys for your ability to do this. there's no doubt that as human beings we could all learn a lesson from this.
riiiiiight. To a far lesser extent AronRa is also a bible scholar. Bart Erhman is also an atheist.
The Hindu Rig Vedas was written thousands of years before the bible's Genesis.😁😁🤣🤣🤣
I'm surprised you said facts in plural mode
I always doubted there was a single one in there... Going to listen
Dr Ehrman is making the rounds! 🙂
On Erica's, Gutsick Gibbon, video about the Christian Horror novel, "Monster,” she pines for the only game in town, well funded Evolution Channel depicted in the book.
Have you or the other counter apologetics channels on RUclips considered making that happen, at least via Nebula?
Telltale has been getting content strikes against him, as I'm sure you all have from time to time, it would be an added safety net for all of you as well as granting greater flexibility in content and video length.
Just something to think about,
Hail Satan 😉
Aron Ra is one of the greatest PHENOMENA ever "happened to" this world with STILL so stupidly countless ridiculous, primitive religious delusions sadly alive today. THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH, ARON! 🙂
LMAO
Was it a stout? Maybe dr. Ehrman could be sipping on some wine during such discussions? That would enhance their atmosphere.
Plants created before the sun isn't a contradiction imo You have to think at it from the perspective of literal days, and plants can survive in the dark for a couple of days. So that would work, though it is a bit weird.
How did Adam and Eve get their navals? The two people that should not have them are those two.
Their god must have had one I guess.
@Richard Waddington Because their god forcefully removed it I guess. I'll bet their tax dollars paid for that procedure, too. Were there taxes before the fall, I wonder...
And how'd we get blacks, Asians etc from two white people? How did we get 8 blood types too? Each person can only have one, and you can only have a type that belonged to your father or mother.
@@_Omega_Weapon EZ- some of their offspring "identified" with being the yet non-existent blacks and asians, and if you want to be considered a good citizen, you had better accept this without question.
@@michaeltape8282 🤣..but where did they get the *idea* of those races of which to identify as?😄
In the book of genesis it's a snake, snaaaake, ooo, it's a snake!
Yo, has Aron been working out? Looks jacked!
So many intercircular layers of contradiction about the necessity of believing in an omnipotent being.
In the beginning... means that at any point of reality's existence, whether you believe big bang or creationist or spaghetti monsters doesnt matter, it is a definitive point on a timeline.
Thus even if you condense it to 10,000 years or 10billion years, that is an attempt to describe what occurred. The concept of a 'day' doesnt arise until light and darkness is split. Thus literally any amount of infinite time exists in the first verse of Genesis.
But what is important here is that within that infinite expanse of potential time, the heavens and the earth (formless) were made.
Days only start counting down when earth itself becomes prepared for life and this is where contention begins. We could have an infinite amount of time prior to man's creation, but as soon as humanity took shape through creation, our relative time began.
This model can account for dinosaurs, for they were within that infinite period prior to man, and any concept of the universe being billions of years old, for the same reason. The focus should be and has been on humanity, expelled from the heavenly garden (Eden was not of earth) into a pre-existent world (earth). Creationist's can argue about the world's creation but again the focus should be on humanity.
Humans are created by God in a first order cause. The earth was made in the beginning, we were not.
Christians got the idea of the apple being the forbidden fruit from sleeping beauty
I want Aron's shirt
I always thought that the seven heads were a reference to the 7 hills of Rome... Was Revelations written before the Empire accepted Christianity?
Now have Daniel Wallace on, who has consistently out debated Bart in textual criticism.
Death was already in the world... or they wouldn't have been able to digest food.
Aron how can I browse and use your encyclopedia: Phylogeny Explorer. Made an account and it says: "User is not approved to view. Contact dev team for beta access."
Q: What is the issue?
this tree of knowledge thing always remainds me of Zeus, after Prometheus asks Zeus to let him give humans fire, Zeus get's engry, and says something like "what ? you have created them in are image, you have teached them to work, you have game them knowledge, and now you want to give them fire, you want to make them like us, so hey can come and take over my tron?: so for me it is fairly similar to the jewish mith ... and let's not forget abouth Pandora, just like in the bible, the root of all human kinds suffering is a woman, and the only woman that was at the time...
Where can I get one of those never-ending beer glasses?
To attain "Enlightenment" do we drink Dr. Ehrman's water or Aron Ra's dark beer ? ( or just keep listening to both of them ?)
I think it's interesting to contrast the first chapters of genesis with just a little further in. I think it's quite possible Abram was a real person who actually lived, while Adam, Noah, etc were myths, completely made-up.
I think in the Sumerian stories that the "god" Enki ( snake in the Eden) told Adapa (the man) not to take the immortal elixir from the "high god Anu". I think the Serpent/Enki told the Man/Woman to eat from the The Tree of Knowledge was that then they would know they were made to be slave/servants of the "gods" and realizing their "nakedness" (Bible says) was their realization that the Yaweh/ Enil "god" was using them (humans) as slaves (labor) and their nakedness was they realized "god' wasn't "GOD" and they could be free of being enslaved. Enki's intervention (DNA.genetic) could also be about homo erectus ( or homo sapiens) being elevated/evolving to homo sapiens sapiens. What do you think? This is why I would like you to do some video discussions with Paul Anthony Wallis The Fifth Kind You Tube Biblical Scholar former Arch Deacon Episcopal Church, living in Austrailia. Aron Ra thanks for all the great work you do and bring Truth to all of us. You are helping people like me !
On two trees... a new revelation elaborates on the Tree of Life, which Adam and Eve did use to live extended lives (and if they hadn't defaulted, would still be alive today). The second "tree" is another metaphor used to symbolize the knowledge of good and evil. The Garden actually was flush with all manner of trees bearing fruits and nuts, which Eve already knew how to utilize. (No, she wasn't made from Adam's rib. The story of their re-materialization over the course of 10 days, that sounds a bit like Captain Kirk beaming down, was obviously far too advanced for the people of that day and age to understand, so the short form used "mud" as a sort of stand-in.)
The plan that Adam and Eve were supposed to be following, had them spawning the violet race and having half a million descendants before interbreeding with the other races in the area. But they were both impatient, and only had a little over a thousand descendants before creating Cain. Adam strayed as well, so they would both be demoted to mortal status, and neither would have to live indefinitely without the other on this hellhole of a planet. This meant that their biology was physically changed such that the Tree of Life would no longer serve them. They left the Garden, because when the Garden dwellers heard about a Nodite knocking up Eve and getting her demoted, they slaughtered the tribe Cain's father came from. That aroused the ire of the other nearby Nodite tribes, and they marched on Eden to retaliate, so the violet family had to make haste to disappear.
Christianity is just like Taco Bell. Take a limited number of crappy ingredients and keep recombining them in different combos and some sucker will give good money for each different combo!
I'm curious to know if Mr Ehrman is familiar with the Chan Thomas version of the Adam and Eve story and what his reaction to it is.
Sin is our conscious fight with our unconscious instincts...doing what we want to do, and not following the herd advised by our instinctive conscience. Death prior to becoming Being consciously aware of our inevitable death was unknown and 'being gone' an 'accident', however sad, when we were instinctive Homo erectus.
So being aware of our birth and death became part of the Human Condition we experience as the 'sin' of becoming aware of the meaning of our sexuality and the instinctive 'battle' it encourages between males of the species that we can control but continue between males in games and wars, and which could lead to our extinction as a species, if we can't learn to understand and solve our human condition.
So, we start working on immortality as that final solution...but let's go step-by-step and end Cancer for a START! How long have they been puttering around with out money to do just that?????!!!!!
My second favorite Bart, and second favorite aronra.
Love the conversation, but I would love a cold dark beer right now.
The problem I see with all of this, is that the myth of the Christ is heavily explicit on recognizing the Genesis 1/2 as literal. Not that the original authors of those myths may have them in mind as absolute truth (which I'm inclined to think that they were, since, we have to remember: PEOPLE SACRIFICED THEIR FIRSTBORN TO YAHWEH, and unless one believes that them god can do anything as it wants, or the Sacerdotal Class holds so much power, no one in their sane mind would do this). The thing I'm saying is:
Okay, MAYBE SOME Judaist branches can allow allegorical justifications (still I'm wondering how can they be "the chosen people" while also being Moses and such "non literal", but religion goes hand in hand with both mental and semmantic gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty), but Christianity and the figure of a Christ NEEDS the Genesis, "original sin", to be literal. What this means, is that Christianity has FAILED since Genesis have been demonstrated as FALSE, and Islam too, and I am sure ALL ABRAHAMIST BRANCHES SHARE THE SAME FATE SINCE WE KNOW EVOLUTION IS A FACT.
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I am sad this is only minutes.
The Great dragon standing on the shore of the sea did not have seven heads it says that he saw a great beast come out of the sea which had seven heads and 10 horns so there's two beasts in that scenario
Dr. Ehrman, What do you think about the Centre Place leader calling out Dr. Richard Carrier as someone that, basically, made up their entire field of study i.e. assigning arbitrary probabilities to the historicity of events?
I still puzzle over those who say that Adam and Eve were figurative, then why did jesus see the need to die for figurative nonsense? To get us out of his figurative hell that he never actually validates (according to Ehrman)?
What if the story of Lilith, while post dating Genesis, predated the art that Aron was referring too. They could both be correct. In other words, Genesis isn’t based on Lilith but the art is.
Just a thought. Could be wrong but that seems the most parsimonious to me given what I know.
250,000 deaths from medical malpractice a year, so much for 'experts'
If it only took 7 days to make the world with only one day off then plants would have been fine without light just a little yellow. Any more problems Bartman!
So this AronRa fellow; is he playing up the 'what Christians think an atheist looks like' thing, just a tiny bit?
Where’s the rest of the video?
Note: Both Bart Erhman and AronRa were both raptured immediately after the making of this video leaving Kirk Cameron, Nicholas Cage, Chad Michael Murray and Kevin Sorbo to search for them. 🙄🥰
My theory is that earth is about 12 to 15 000 years old, because God say in his word that a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day, to him,
How do you feel about the Mesopotaimium (sp?) writings of the multiple gods (Enki, Enlil, etc...) now being presented as ET's who presented themselves as "god" to humans as well as the Egyptian mythos of "gods" and other "gods" around the world as possible ET habitation and interfering with hominoid evolution in the very ancient past ? Could you get Paul Anthony Wallis (The Fifth Kind You Tube ; books Escape From Eden and others) as a guest for discussion on Genesis ? He's a former Arch Deacon (30years) in the Episcopal Church of England and Biblical scholar and knows Hebrew and Aramaic. He says many words in the Bible/Genesis are translated incorrectly in the "English" and mean something entirely different. I thinks some sessions with Paul Wallis and you would prove highly interesting and watchable. Thanks, Aron Ra, for the work you do and you've helped me a lot ! (Your wife is very sweet and so intelligent !)
Regarding Christian scholars, even Origen regards the early chapters of Genesis as allegory and myth, and he's about as early a Christian scholar as you can get.
I can check, but is Ehrman covering all of Genesis? Because its a bit of a composite, with origin myths at the front and the trickster tales of the Patriarchs stuck on the back.
In the beginning, there were no languages.
So God never said, "Let there be light" !
How do you know the scientists are right?