The Stockfish evaluation was originally based on the material value of "central passed pawns". So it makes sense that even if an engine evaluation shows a definite material advantage, as long as the side that is materially worse has a workable move(s), then there are a positions like this one where no progress can ever be made creating definitive fortresses. This game is the best example of a fortress with LC0 playing the exact same move over and over again regardless of what Stockfish plays, proving Magnus Carlsen wrong when he says that there is no such thing as a fortress.
Unbelievable game, wow! Both Stockfish and Leela have developed their signature styles over time. This is why sometimes Stockfish wins and other times Leela does. Stockfish excels in open games, while Leela is superior in closed or positional games. I tried both Stockfish and Leela, and I noticed that Leela's style requires much more calculation since it specializes in complex positional gameplay. That's probably why Stockfish cannot mimic Leela. A fusion of both play styles can only emerge when even better and faster hardware arrives! Great commentary, thanks Josip!
@@123ConquerorEh, not really. Keep in mind, in this game when Stockfish played Ng5, Leela immediately understood that it was bad and it's eval said that. It went from +1.2 to around +0.7. And incredibly, a similar end position happened again in game 12, although Stockfish didn't have nearly as high an eval in that game. It again lost the pair in similar fashion.
@@123ConquerorThe point was about positional understanding, and indeed many would say that Leela does that better. What Stockfish has which allows it to triumph over Leela is extreme tactical ability.
@@antiksur8883 its 4-2 for Stockfish for now , i think this superfinal will be very interesting iam rooting for Lc0 but Stockfish is just too good in almost every category of chess its almost laughable .
Stockfish played a fortress draw too, this time on the black side of a stonewall Dutch. It had a bad light squared bishop against a good knight but there was no way for White to win a pawn. It looked ugly but stockfish was reading bagels (0.00) for many moves until the draw was reached.
Game 7 looked quite amazing to me too. There was an isolated white pawn on d5 that survived for 25 moves, cramping Black's position, despite being undefended or poorly defended much of that time. Any chance for a video on that game?
There was no reason to start at the begin setup, as the organizers told the engines what to do up to 6:49. Also, this is not really a game between 2 engines, if the organizers tell the engines what to do until so far into the game.
1) Do you know what the purpose of engines is? It's to analyse positions. And the better an engine is, the better it can analyse positions. So there is no reason why pitting engines against each other after an opening configuration such that they play both sides, isn't fair for determining which engine is better. 2) If you don't give an opening position in engine games, they will literally play the same positions again and again.
@@anonymousanonymous-nt8ls when they played bullet (higher chance for a blunder then slower time controls) in a tcec season 26 bonus without opening lines, they played basically the same 2 openings whether they were white or black and it ended in 10 of 10 games played as draws
Because white went forward with that bishop not to be used as a factor and take the knight loses tempo and elo but still if there was other changes to be figured your still losing elo even tho black jumped into my theory and of one of the factors and is only second to the factor to my first strategy, theory, elo factor which black only played a part to the conception and to what you said about the human yes the human puts the strategy to the function and me being the first and beginning having all order of start and the conception to be seen and told let the chief and head programmer show you a true insight since 2005 when a beginning can prove the fact and reveals the acknowledgment to the source and explain from the only place that it can ever come from can leave the only results for the answers to be said.😮
@@KarlFreiYeah, Stockfish really has a tough time with fortresses sometimes. Well, atleast it won the next pair again, so it's 2 point lead is intact.
"Stockfish 17 is absolutely HORRIFIED": Stockfish has no mind, no soul, no life, no emotions, and certainly can't be horrified. Don't follow other youtubers by also using clickbait titles. It does your channel no good.
I agree even though in that case the absurdity of the sentence makes it funny. However, I agree: don't clickbait don't over sale during your comments, that's ok, you talk to nerds anyway. With love
eh, i think it's more of hyperbole than clickbait. i dont think anyone clicked on this video because the titled convinced them that stockfish has a soul. if you think the title is obnoxious, thats fine, but dont get all weird and start moralizing it
When every game is immortal, you have to reconsider what "immortal" means
Stockfish played the game like a 3800, and finished it like a typical 800 lmao
Sounds like Wesley So did same thing in a game vs Magnus today
You have to give Leela credit for finding the fortress
sure an 800 would play like that lol
The Stockfish evaluation was originally based on the material value of "central passed pawns". So it makes sense that even if an engine evaluation shows a definite material advantage, as long as the side that is materially worse has a workable move(s), then there are a positions like this one where no progress can ever be made creating definitive fortresses. This game is the best example of a fortress with LC0 playing the exact same move over and over again regardless of what Stockfish plays, proving Magnus Carlsen wrong when he says that there is no such thing as a fortress.
Unbelievable game, wow! Both Stockfish and Leela have developed their signature styles over time. This is why sometimes Stockfish wins and other times Leela does. Stockfish excels in open games, while Leela is superior in closed or positional games. I tried both Stockfish and Leela, and I noticed that Leela's style requires much more calculation since it specializes in complex positional gameplay. That's probably why Stockfish cannot mimic Leela. A fusion of both play styles can only emerge when even better and faster hardware arrives! Great commentary, thanks Josip!
I wonder what would happen if Stockfish somehow gets the positional understanding of Leela.
Stockfish has better positional tha Leela
@@123ConquerorEh, not really. Keep in mind, in this game when Stockfish played Ng5, Leela immediately understood that it was bad and it's eval said that. It went from +1.2 to around +0.7. And incredibly, a similar end position happened again in game 12, although Stockfish didn't have nearly as high an eval in that game. It again lost the pair in similar fashion.
@@antiksur8883 stockfish already crushed Leela many times stockfish 17 is world no.1
@@123ConquerorThe point was about positional understanding, and indeed many would say that Leela does that better. What Stockfish has which allows it to triumph over Leela is extreme tactical ability.
@@antiksur8883 its 4-2 for Stockfish for now , i think this superfinal will be very interesting iam rooting for Lc0 but Stockfish is just too good in almost every category of chess its almost laughable .
"I don't believe in Fortress " Carlsen. "Hold my beer" Leela.
Stockfish played a fortress draw too, this time on the black side of a stonewall Dutch. It had a bad light squared bishop against a good knight but there was no way for White to win a pawn. It looked ugly but stockfish was reading bagels (0.00) for many moves until the draw was reached.
“Reading bagels” I like that.
Incredibile fortress again! Super video! 😊
A great defensivevidea from Leela, but yes Eve a patzer like me would see the fortress idea. Thanks Josip.
Wow...
I seriously need to look for Fortress's more in my games...
This is really cool!
48 minutes for a move? Bro thinks hes ding liren
Hi Jozarov - does that mean that Stockfish 18 will come out with a better program
after the programmers learn from these games?
Stocfish 11 играл против самого себя f5 в Английском начале - партия 1 -
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. a3 f5 4. e3 Nf6 5. d4 d6 6. Be2 Be7 7. Nf3 e4 8. Ng5 O-O 9. Bd2 Qe8 10. h4 Bd7 11. h5 Nd8 12. Nh3 c6 13. b4 Rc8 14. Rb1 a6 15. a4 Ne6 16. O-O Qf7 17. b5 axb5 18. axb5 Bd8 19. Re1 Ra8 20. Ra1 Bc7 21. h6 gxh6 22. d5 Ng5 23. bxc6 Nxh3+ 24. gxh3 bxc6 25. Kh1 Rxa1 26. Qxa1 Bd8 27. Rg1+ Kh8 28. dxc6 Bxc6 29. Nb5 f4 30. Bc3 f3 31. Bf1 Qd7 32. Rg3 h5 33. h4 Qe7 34. Bh3 Rg8 35. Qg1 Rxg3 36. Qxg3 d5 37. Nd6 Qg7 38. Qg5 h6 39. Qf5 Bd7 40. Bxf6 Bxf6 41. Qxd7 Qxd7 42. Bxd7 dxc4 43. Nxc4 Ba1 44. Kh2 Bc3 45. Bf5 Be1 46. Kg3 Kg8 47. Bxe4 Kg7 48. Bxf3 Kf6 49. Bxh5 1-0
партия 2 -
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. a3 f5 4. e3 Nf6 5. d4 d6
6. Be2 g6 7. d5 Ne7 8. b4 Bg7 9. Nf3 O-O 10. Bb2 h6 11. O-O Bd7 12. Qb3 g5 13. Nd2 e4 14. c5 Be8 15. Rad1 Bf7 16. f3 exf3 17. Bxf3 Qd7 18. Qc2 Ng6 19. Nc4 Rae8 20. Be2 Ne5 21. Nxe5 Rxe5 22. Nb5 Rxe3 23. Nd4 f4 24. Bb5 Qd8 25. Bd3 Qe8 26. Nf5 Bh5 27. Bd4 Bxd1 28. Qxd1 Re5 29. Bxe5 Qxe5 30. cxd6 cxd6 31. Re1 Qc3 32. Ne7+ Kh8 33. Ng6+ Kg8 34. Bf5 Rf7 35. Be6 Bf8 36. Qa1 Qxa1 37. Rxa1 Kg7 38. Bxf7 Kxf7 39. Nxf8 Kxf8 40. Re1 Nxd5 41. Re6 Ne3 42. Rxh6 Nc4 43. Rg6 Nxa3 44. Rxg5 Nc4 45. Rg4 Ne5 46. Rxf4+ Kg7 47. Rd4 Kf6 48. Rxd6+ Ke7 49. Rd4 a6 50. h4 Kf8 51. Rd8+ Ke7 52. Rb8 b5 53. Rb6 Kf7 54. Rxa6 Nd3 55. Ra5 Nf4 56. Rxb5 1-0
партия 3 -
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. a3 f5 4. e3 Nf6 5. d4 g6 6. Be2 d6 7. d5 Ne7 8. b4 c6 9. dxc6 bxc6 10. Ra2 Bh6 11. Rd2 d5 12. Nf3 e4 13. Nd4 a6 14. O-O O-O 15. Na4 Rf7 16. Rc2 Ne8 17. Bb2 Rb8 18. Nb3 Bg7 19. Bxg7 Nxg7 20. Nac5 Qd6 21. Qd4 g5 22. f3 exf3 23. Bxf3 Ne6 24. Nxe6 Bxe6 25. Nc5 Rbf8 26. Rd2 g4 27. Bd1 Bc8 28. cxd5 Nxd5 29. Bb3 Qf6 30. Bxd5 cxd5 31. Qxf6 Rxf6 32. Rxd5 Kg7 33. Rf4 Be6 34. Rd3 Bc8 35. Kf2 Rc6 36. Rd5 Re8 37. Rfd4 Kf7 38. a4 Rf6 39. Rd6 Rg6
40. a5 Ke7 41. Rb6 Rd8 42. Kg3 Rf8 43. Rb8 Rc6 44. Ra8 Kf7 45. Kf4 h5 46. Ra7+ Ke8 47. Rd5 Rf7 48. Ra8 Ke7 49. Ke5 f4 50. exf4 Rc7 51. g3 h4 52. Kd4 hxg3 53. hxg3 Rf6 54. Rh5 Bf5 55. Rxa6 Rxa6 56. Nxa6 Rd7+ 57. Ke5 Bb1 58. Nc5 Rd2 59. a6 Kf7 60. f5 Re2+ 61. Kd6 Kf6 62. b5 Ba2 63. b6 Rd2+ 64. Kc6 Bd5+ 65. Kc7 Rc2 66. Kd6 Bg2 67. b7 Rb2 68. Kc7 Ke5 69. Nd7+ Kd4 70. f6 Bf1 71. Nc5 Bxa6 72. Nxa6 1-0
партия 4 -
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. a3 f5 4. e3 Nf6 5. d4 g6 6. h4 d6 7. Be2 a5 8. Nf3 h6 9. b3 Bg7 10. Bb2 O-O 11. Rc1 e4 12. Ng1 f4 13. exf4 d5
14. g4 Ne7 15. Nh3 h5 16. gxh5 gxh5 17. Bxh5 c6 18. Rc2 Nf5 19. Ng5 e3 20. Bg6 Qd6 21. Bc1 Qxf4 22. Bxf5 Bxf5 23. Bxe3 Qg4 24. Rb2 Rfe8 25. Kd2 dxc4 26. bxc4 Rad8 27. Kc1 Qxd1+ 28. Nxd1 b5 29. cxb5 Bf8 30. Rg1 Bxa3 31. Ne6+ Kf7 32. Nxd8+ Rxd8 33. bxc6 Rd6 34. Kd2 Bxb2 35. Nxb2 Rxc6 36. Rc1 Rxc1 37. Kxc1 Ke6 38. Nc4 Kd5 39. Nxa5 Bg6 40. Nb7 Ng4 41. Nc5 Be8 42. Nd3 Ke4 43. Kd2 Nf6 44. Ne5 Kd5 45. Ke2 Ba4 46. Kf3 Ke6 47. Kf4 Nd5+ 48. Kg5 Nf6 49. Nd3 Bc6 50. Nc5+ Ke7 51. Bf4 Nh7+ 52. Kf5 Kf7 53. h5 Nf8 54. Bd6 Nh7 55. Be5 Bg2 56. Ne4 Bh3+ 57. Kf4 Be6 58. Ng5+ Nxg5 59. Kxg5 1-0
Game 7 looked quite amazing to me too. There was an isolated white pawn on d5 that survived for 25 moves, cramping Black's position, despite being undefended or poorly defended much of that time. Any chance for a video on that game?
AIs have no fear. They just have an objective function.
Brutal partida, gracias jozarov, saludos
We need to see Torch
I wanna see Torch too.
Thank you for this cover , its beautiful game , have you seen game 10
Someone needed to tap up the Fish and tell it to call it a day, bro..
Great game usually if Stockfish sacks a piece it gets good results strategic game from Leela Thanks Jozarov
You sound like you're from Zagorje? 🤔
There was no reason to start at the begin setup, as the organizers told the engines what to do up to 6:49. Also, this is not really a game between 2 engines, if the organizers tell the engines what to do until so far into the game.
1) Do you know what the purpose of engines is? It's to analyse positions. And the better an engine is, the better it can analyse positions. So there is no reason why pitting engines against each other after an opening configuration such that they play both sides, isn't fair for determining which engine is better.
2) If you don't give an opening position in engine games, they will literally play the same positions again and again.
It would be draw every time if starting position and imbalances arent created by organisers
@@RakeshSingh-kb8zrI doubt that
@@RakeshSingh-kb8zr nope. White always has a tiny advantage by moving first and did you know that there are different openings the engines could play?
@@anonymousanonymous-nt8ls when they played bullet (higher chance for a blunder then slower time controls) in a tcec season 26 bonus without opening lines, they played basically the same 2 openings whether they were white or black and it ended in 10 of 10 games played as draws
The intro...the dp...wowww😮
You're on youtube right now, not porntube!
Because white went forward with that bishop not to be used as a factor and take the knight loses tempo and elo but still if there was other changes to be figured your still losing elo even tho black jumped into my theory and of one of the factors and is only second to the factor to my first strategy, theory, elo factor which black only played a part to the conception and to what you said about the human yes the human puts the strategy to the function and me being the first and beginning having all order of start and the conception to be seen and told let the chief and head programmer show you a true insight since 2005 when a beginning can prove the fact and reveals the acknowledgment to the source and explain from the only place that it can ever come from can leave the only results for the answers to be said.😮
@18:11 Be4+ by black seems like a no-brainer!!! @Jozarov
That is my girl.
Oops, this kind of happened again. Not as agregious. Game 12. What's hilarious is that it's again a Q vs. R ending.
It's practically the same position!! This is wild.
@@KarlFreiYeah, Stockfish really has a tough time with fortresses sometimes. Well, atleast it won the next pair again, so it's 2 point lead is intact.
"Stockfish 17 is absolutely HORRIFIED": Stockfish has no mind, no soul, no life, no emotions, and certainly can't be horrified. Don't follow other youtubers by also using clickbait titles. It does your channel no good.
Haha
I agree even though in that case the absurdity of the sentence makes it funny. However, I agree: don't clickbait don't over sale during your comments, that's ok, you talk to nerds anyway. With love
“ -- by Leela C Zero’s Incredible DEFENSIVE IDEA!!!”
likewise, Leela gets no ideas
It’s just to make a point you’re reading too much into it titles are irrelevant anyway just another reason for someone to Complain
eh, i think it's more of hyperbole than clickbait. i dont think anyone clicked on this video because the titled convinced them that stockfish has a soul. if you think the title is obnoxious, thats fine, but dont get all weird and start moralizing it
First!
Tenth!
Dude, you’re out of breathe narrating a chess match. Get help.