Hhm this is a good guide for being a traditional "tank", but with how easy naxx is most DK tanks are trying to get more DPS out of their tank set ups right now. Most guides seems to be indicating that you go frost or unholy if you want to get more dps as a tank, but you sacrifice overall tankiness by not picking up will of the necropolis. Honestly frost DK tank DPS isn't all that great, especially compared to unholy if you snapshot properly and unholy just has substantially better AOE threat. From what I've seen, the best parsing DK tanks are 2H deep blood, this is to get the most rune strike dmg output and to pick up dancing rune weapon. DRW is a massive damage cooldown for tank DK's and is kinda like a different version of unholy gargoyle snapshotting. A lot of people view DRW as a meme but since blood tanks main DPS comes from runestrike and heartstrike its actually insanely good for their damage output as a tank. Essentially the Blood DK tanking rotation just becomes the initial icy touch/plague strike then death strikes to set up 6 heart strikes and refresh diseases with pestilence. You run glyph of DRW/ Pestilence and the last one can be whatever you want. With the deep blood set up, you still maintain the standard tankiness of blood but can compete and probably surpass warriors/paladin boss dps. This spec is surprisingly also really good for tanking trash especially if you're using DRW blood boils since DRW is such a short CD. DK's take a lot more thought than warriors/ paladins and I don't think a lot of tanks are really putting in the effort to min/max on them.
@@eloos1 It's not even about parsing. DW is objectively worse than 2h. Spamming IT for superfluous amounts of threat is pointless. Literally just playing badly for nothing.
Unholy Tanks got a little spikey with healing, but overall would require less healing due to the high avoidance. If your healers were on it for the random spikes, the DPS increase was worth it. The spikiness really wasn't a huge issue and could be could be brought back immediately after, but it polarised healers a little, some loved it, some hated it the surprise, but it rarely resulted in death.
yeah i agree, but i rly rly dont like at all blood dk bcs of extremely slow gameplay that why for farming dungeons etc i use frost tank build as guide mention and at least for me is way more fun faster and better.
Been toying with tanking on a dk, done plenty on all the other classes but always dps on a dk, this is really making me lean towards it especially the frost dual wield build, certainly looks fun
You did miss the “magic” mitigation unholy spec but overall awesome video. I’m a DK tank, been playing DK tank since launch of Wrath. I’ve been doing some theory crafting and may have found an insane frost tank spec for magic damage mitigation that also allows you to take howling blast for snap aoe threat and sims roughly the same DPS as the heartstrike blood spec. Which is the best single target DPS spec (if you wanna parse 99s use this spec lol) the interesting thing about this frost spec is you’re prioing a lot of talents to increase icy touch damage, you can crit around 3-3.5k icy touch’s paired with a guaranteed crit on the opener granting like 35-40k snap threat for single target. It’s almost too much to type, but anyone who’s interested lmk I can send you the talent spec and you can mess around with it!
I have the basic single target blood spec with the 3% hit from frost rather than the morbidity. Is the spec you are referring to really good for all round tanking? I thought the frost tank was only really good for aoe and not that good for single target (mostly for dps output and parses)
@@TheRab101 Our DK tank has also swapped to frost - once you massively outgear the raid, the increased damage, single target threat and instant aoe snap threat of frost is very nice to have. Though he'll be back to blood for Ulduar start for survivability.
mentioning the icy touch damage glyph would've probably been good, as it's the main one you go if blood tanking and over defcap, unless I missed it. Great video!
@@huna7a I’m gonna be real man, your majorly wrong on this. I’m hitting 570 defense if I have tank gear in all slots. It’s enough where I’m dropping pieces to swap in dps pieces or icebane pieces for more effective health. Defense cap is simply as DK with your rune forges
You might want let people know warcraft logs has real issues with Logging DK OT parses due to their really outdated way of categorizing off tanking. Frost DK tanks should be in the same sort of situation as glad warrior, give the presence your in and the gear your wearing. However its not, you get logged as a ridiculously sub par frost dps. Ive spoken to them at length about this and they have no interest in changing it or even looking into it, which is really awful considering the meta of frost OT's is becoming more and more common. I would help if someone like you maybe brought it up?
@@ihaterethunters that's correct, and actually it should be a lich for frost... IF your main tanking. However because of how they categorise the tanks, you can MT a boss but if you don't hit the criteria you will be counted a frost regardless. Also, the OT situation is awful, they know they have an issue with categorising DKs correctly. If they are OT tanking in frost or UH. But they don't want to do anything about it. The upsetting thing is they know the fix too. They just aren't interested in Changing it. I've spoken with them at length about it and nothing is likely to change unless someone like sarthe gets involved.
I would strongly recommend a deep blood (unholy subspec) DPS/tank spec. Dancing rune weapon with heart strike and rune strike does so much more damage than spamming icy touch while being able to maintain threat when needed. Plus, you can still take will of the necropolis and vampiric blood when things get tough. I also feel like I should mention that the spec in general is just so much more fun to play with.
@@nikolaykertev2457 you're objectively wrong and more than welcome to settle for massive DPS loss you would provide as anything other than a threat bot :D
@@AcieEoff Let me get this straight, no one in their straight mind would take your 2k more DPS over a decent tank and your threat is definitely worse than a frost DK tank. You doing 2-3k more DPS is irrelevant, you only force the healers to try hard, eventually bring an extra healer. Instead of that you could go with 1 less healer and pick an actual DPS and not the joke you are. So yeah, i would love to see those logs where you are being useful :D
@@nikolaykertev2457 you really need to be more specific about what you're playing because I just straight up assumed you were dual raid spec tank. Either way, blood will pick up pick up WotN, spell deflection, vamp blood, and VotTW, all of which are actually good tank talents, so if you're concerned about healers (who aren't concerned about tanks), then blood would be the way to go anyway. Deep frost tank is definitely good though. There is a reason why top guilds are using them.
In the DW spec's I noticed you still have 5/5 black ice, was this intended to be that way or was it meant to be 3/3 Nerves of cold steel and 2/5 black ice?
Its a duel wield plague spec that I think could have some huge pvp potential. It uses lichbane on MH , crusader on OH. Haste and Crit gear with resilience gems.
Actually a very informative video, i actually listen to the actual whole video. And actually i hear the word actually alot. Actually it was too much but since you actually know what you Actually are talking aboute its actually ok. Cheers
I loved the DW Frost DK with the Howling Blast glyph. It made the character have much more of a priority play style than an actual rotation. Don’t even need to use the plague strike in all honesty, but that’s me you can weave it in if you want but as far as threat it wasn’t necessary after getting some good gear. Great vid there sir I enjoyed it.
I do have a question and I think it's the information this guide is missing to be even better: What about dodging, parrying and parry haste? I've tried to find more information about it because I've heard that it isn't a good idea to have much parry nor dodge and I don't know why. Does parry or dodge have a internal cooldown so after parrying an attack you can't parry another for few seconds? So does dodge? What is "parry haste" and why is it supposed to make you get more damage as a tank?
but crits are hits with increased damage.... That is a complete contradiction on your part. According to wowpedia, uncrushability and resilience falls under the definition of melee mitigation.
@@eChuckNorris yeah, pretty much all defensive stats can be useless in certain circumstances tho. Like dodge, parry and block against spells, or magic resistance against melee attacks
@@eChuckNorris just like defense is barely considered mitigation past its cap, it's almost useless compared to the other defensive stats. But if your only way to hit cap is resilience, then i don't see why we wouldn't call resilience "mitigation"
@@JDBob3 I think it is mostly in the context of what it is doing. We consider mitigation as "reduction in damage" and avoidance as "reduced chance to be hit". In the case of defence, it provides no mitigation at all past cap, but it does provide slight amounts of avoidance. Resillience is the same except it offers nothing past cap, so it is technically mitigation unless you are capped. Armor is mitigation, resistances are mitigation, so I guess resillience and defense are too, except that they mitigate nothing more by going over cap, which the same can be said for armor and resistances... So yeah, resillience is mitigation with a low cap, I agree with you.
Dancing rune blade is quite a meme but, it gives quite alot of *pet dmg* for free basicly. Plus you get 2x frost fever & 2x unholy disease. (dont know does it benefit from lust) But it is super nice / fun ability to use also.
@@Emiami12 Tru but only as a dps spec and that is useless compared to frost or unholy. The only reason you would do this is if you wanna get the parsing numbers, which again would be so easy because nobody plays blood DK dps :)
Hey Sarthe looking for some help on some stuff. So I feel like current unholy dk is wrong, and the bis build should be: Dual Wield until snapshot 2-hand after snapshot Current 2-hand dps meta-build only sims for like 500 dps less than the current dual-wield build, it's a trash build. My 2-hand build sims for about 180 dps less than the dual wield build and this is without weapon swapping for snapshotting or weapon swapping at all, which I believe would increase the dps. I was hoping to see if it were possible to simm this weapon-swapping stuff and I am quite annoyed with the meta being "dual wield unholy is the only way" when it's almost on-par with dw.
No love for the Unholy DW Tank that I finished Heroic ICC Glory Achieve in vanilla as a main tank? Shame. It was the most fun tank spec IMO and its also where the mechanics for Bone Shield came from that merged into Blood today, it was also good for DPS. It was a little more challenging to play but so much more interesting.
Not sure why but wouldn't you take Nerves of Cold Steel increase dmg is really nice when using Rune Strike plus don't lower your miss chance during combat with off hand weapons ? Thanks for video
The most slept on dk tank talent point is deathchill. Having a guaranteed crit on my first icy touch or howling blast is insanely helpful for threat on bosses and big trash pulls. I do not understand how so many people skip it.
Cause u don’t need it to tank bosses and ur not the aoe trash tank. So it’s useless unless ur solo tanking like a dungeon but then just play a different spec
As far as the rotation is concerned, wouldn't it be "better" (maybe not from a dps point of view) to wait and use death strike only when we're missing hp?
Nax is really easy content relatively, healers shouldn’t have a problem this phase healing. (Which is why frost tanks basically is dps with some tanky items), ulduaar icc toc you’re definitely going to want to focus on staying alive more although.
Depends on the situation. That can be better if you don't care about threat or dmg. You can also make use of rune grace to try to delay your Runes a bit to fish for healing.
Hmm I never see frost tanks but it’s such a well designed spec I’d love to try it. Just wondering, if you are frost tanking do you use death strike in place of obliterate? For the healing? Assuming you need to be topped, of course
What gems do I use as a Jewelcrafter who can get the gems one jewelcrafters can get? The pure stamina one? (+51) or do you for the red gem, if the bonus is good, go for expertise or dodge rating? And for yellow go for defence rating?
Acclimatisation is a key element for frost tanking expecially in Naxxrammas, frost is real strong for bossess that hit with spells. This talent allows you to use one of you retri paladin auras for boosting your resistances and pretty much completely ignoring having a resistance gear whatsoever. Unlike blood tanks, frost dps and unholy dps, frost tanks doesnt aim having howling blast or any improvements on aoe threat. In most cases frost tanks aim strong obliterate, icy touch and having acclimatisation. Some hybrids play for deathstrike frost tanking but deathstrike is pretty much useless on frost tank. You have healers for that and regardless of using it or not using it if your gear is not tuned well, you will still die, its a matter of the gear you use and not so much on the spells. Frost is good due to acclimatisation l, icy touch, killing machine and frost armor, but requires alot of armor and even more avoidance, also its not a well designed build, all the tank talents are spread in all the 3 talent trees, you have to decide which ones you want to have. Ideally frost tanks play with paladins for the maintank role and improve Spell Deflection from Blood. Frost tank can be main tank too but it will never be better than any of the other tanks except against caster bossess, frost dk tanks are unmatched there, till 5.7k gs you can and have to play with pure defense, parry, dodge/hit/expertise/armor gear but once you start raiding icc25 and killing Sindragosa and the Lichking, the gear should progress towards armor, defense, dodge. A must to have trinket for the starter avoidance gear is the one from onyxia lair quest that gives defense, parry and some hp regen (Purified Onyxia Blood Talisman). Best in slot weapons for dual wield blood dk tank and frost dk tank are the maces from the lichking in 25 player mode. They are both quick and very very good in stats. I play it without the t10 gloves for the avoidance gear and I use the crafting tank pants from blacksmithing for bis item and put back the t10 gloves with sanctified upgrade. That should be enough till 6.4k gs, everything else is upgrading on what you already have from icecrown and ruby sanctum. One big misconception is that the higher the item level is the better the tanking item it is. It all depends on what kind of stats this item gives to you. One such misconception is the tanking bracers from icecrown citadel 25 mode (I believe it was from marrowgar) is better than the deathbringer saurfang one from icc10.
i dont know if it was a bug and fixed by now.. but howling blast didnt do any threat whatsoever in frost presence... i tried to do dungeons in the specc pretty much when naxx launched and i couldnt even hold a single ret pally storm with the blast. D&D on the other hand holds it easily...
0055101533300303201--03503030500321000331012001 Is a double buff unholy tank spec, it is a little fruity as you need to learn how to and when to use bone shield. Your rotation will mostly be the same, you start with IT and keep diseases up with pestilence while spamming death strike.
Any builds for unholy tanking? I happen to be the only unholy dk in my 25 mans, but I want to be able to tank as needed. For now I was just going to keep my dps talents and throw on tank gear. I'm curious if there are any better options.
hey i was seeing logs and all of top logs players have heart strike plus i guess tank 11 which he plays on us server buils 52/0/19 talents and his gear was full mitigation can you help me to understand whats going on among top logs players and their build ?
Why no unholy tank? They are the best tank for spell heavy fights. You can take improved rune tap and even take the expertise from blood, while every other cd from unholy is very good against magic.
Awesome video !!, just made up my own unholy offtank build for when im needed as 3rd tank (as our only unholy DK) - is there anything in unholy you could recommend for a 3rd tank spec ?
Okay idk if its just me but I'm following this and other guides since pre patch and I'm having a hard time getting defense capped. Am I missing something or what if anyone has some advice it would be appreciated.
defense cap is super easy to reach, especially with the valor sigil you can buy in dal. You probably just have weak gear. I am finding reaching hit cap more difficult even with 3966 gearscore
Does anyone know what's the addon showing a bigger profession interface? It's shown at 3:08. Looks much more easy to use than the default blizz UI one.
I've played the frost tank specs and I personally don't see the point of them in 25m raids. Yes, you can pick up trash faster in 25 man raids, but not as well as literally any other tank. And normal guilds don't plough through trash all that fast anyway. Just alternate with the other tank on who's tanking a given trash pack and blood morb is good enough. But what about speedrun guilds? They aren't using DK tanks. They're using feral offtanks. Feral brings higher damage, better mobility, spammable aoe, and better raid utility. And speedrun guilds don't currently need DKs to main tank anything, not even Sartharion, because shit dies so fast that you never need the DK's cooldowns. You'd much rather have your DKs running unholy morb and pumping dps. So we're left with an unnecessary spec that, even though it does more damage and aoe threat, doesn't do its job of staying alive tanking the boss as well as blood does. Try using the non zerg strat for Sarth 25 and you'll be much more comfortable as a blood tank than as frost. I know because I've done both. Spell deflection and stronger self healing are fucking amazing for fights like that, and that's without even considering will of the necropolis. The only time I'd recommend the various frost offtank specs are for DKs who want to solo tank 10m content. You can run frost for that and still bring the haste buff for your melee while speeding through with howling blast plus dnd. Not that you should ideally do that. Other tanks can do better damage than you and still handle the content.
I agree, I think frost tank DPS isn't great for what you're sacrificing. However I don't think many people have seen or realized how good the deep blood tanking spec is. It keeps the tankiness of these standard builds, but matches boss DPS from warrior tanks and you still pick up morbidity and can absolutely blast through trash packs. If you look at logs, US and EU DK tanks have just not figured this out yet and most tanks in that region seem to want to stick with prot paladin.
frost tank is great for fights like thadius, were you just have to tank a little add and swap to dps afterwards. DRW/Unholy is just awesome for the rest.
In the DK deep dive you did, it was mentioned that targets given frost fever via glyph of howling blast do not benefit from Tundra Stalker. Was this changed or was it incorrect?
DK tanks are the 2nd worst tanks in Ulduar. The only reason I'm running as one is for Steelbreaker's Falcon Punch. Otherwise, they're actually kinda bad. Paladin, yet again, is S Tier. I don't find DK tanking to be all that wonderful
thanks for the guide.... would it be better to stack resilience for PVP? also may I ask what blood build in video do you think is most unkillable? im some broke cunt so i can tbuy gear hahahha gear still shitty 5k gs tank gear , ill start buying eof gear soon i got all koltira's gear bought with EOT at the moment... any advice would be greatly appreciated.... i dont play pussy spec ussually , I play unholy ... just want to use it for the 20vs7 guilds lol
Im playing 2h blood tank and following every bis list Im struggling with hit, I dont understand how should I use stam gems, when I have to use almost all gem slots for hit, can someone explain and help, what am I doing wrong?
It's simple. You don't need hit cap, and you should not be trying to get hit capped atm. You probably read that on that useless blood guide on wowhead, but it's wrong. It doesn't even follow it's own advice.
@@krzysztoftarnawski1263 honestly theres so much conflicting information out there its hard to filter, some say never take hearthstrike you'll just troll your guild some say its a must, some say to make sure ur 5%hit capped some say u shouldnt, and it is all from what seems like credible sources (aka people who have played a lot of dk)
Hhm this is a good guide for being a traditional "tank", but with how easy naxx is most DK tanks are trying to get more DPS out of their tank set ups right now. Most guides seems to be indicating that you go frost or unholy if you want to get more dps as a tank, but you sacrifice overall tankiness by not picking up will of the necropolis. Honestly frost DK tank DPS isn't all that great, especially compared to unholy if you snapshot properly and unholy just has substantially better AOE threat.
From what I've seen, the best parsing DK tanks are 2H deep blood, this is to get the most rune strike dmg output and to pick up dancing rune weapon. DRW is a massive damage cooldown for tank DK's and is kinda like a different version of unholy gargoyle snapshotting. A lot of people view DRW as a meme but since blood tanks main DPS comes from runestrike and heartstrike its actually insanely good for their damage output as a tank. Essentially the Blood DK tanking rotation just becomes the initial icy touch/plague strike then death strikes to set up 6 heart strikes and refresh diseases with pestilence. You run glyph of DRW/ Pestilence and the last one can be whatever you want.
With the deep blood set up, you still maintain the standard tankiness of blood but can compete and probably surpass warriors/paladin boss dps. This spec is surprisingly also really good for tanking trash especially if you're using DRW blood boils since DRW is such a short CD. DK's take a lot more thought than warriors/ paladins and I don't think a lot of tanks are really putting in the effort to min/max on them.
Thanks! This is what im looking for and want to see someone do a deeper video about the DRW specc
@@eloos1 It's not even about parsing. DW is objectively worse than 2h. Spamming IT for superfluous amounts of threat is pointless. Literally just playing badly for nothing.
Don't know about Classic, but back in vanilla Unholy DW was highest DPS for tanks overall. There was nothing wrong with opting for higher dps tanks.
Unholy Tanks got a little spikey with healing, but overall would require less healing due to the high avoidance. If your healers were on it for the random spikes, the DPS increase was worth it. The spikiness really wasn't a huge issue and could be could be brought back immediately after, but it polarised healers a little, some loved it, some hated it the surprise, but it rarely resulted in death.
yeah i agree, but i rly rly dont like at all blood dk bcs of extremely slow gameplay that why for farming dungeons etc i use frost tank build as guide mention and at least for me is way more fun faster and better.
@sarthe please do an updated version of this guide that was wonderful
This right here is why I LOVE death knights so much. There really isn't a "wrong" spec.
Awful lot of configurations that aren't the 5 or 6 recommendations.
Been toying with tanking on a dk, done plenty on all the other classes but always dps on a dk, this is really making me lean towards it especially the frost dual wield build, certainly looks fun
DW frost is very fun
7:59 IT and IIT stack. You get 20%+20%+5%. Tested it a week ago.
You did miss the “magic” mitigation unholy spec but overall awesome video. I’m a DK tank, been playing DK tank since launch of Wrath. I’ve been doing some theory crafting and may have found an insane frost tank spec for magic damage mitigation that also allows you to take howling blast for snap aoe threat and sims roughly the same DPS as the heartstrike blood spec. Which is the best single target DPS spec (if you wanna parse 99s use this spec lol) the interesting thing about this frost spec is you’re prioing a lot of talents to increase icy touch damage, you can crit around 3-3.5k icy touch’s paired with a guaranteed crit on the opener granting like 35-40k snap threat for single target. It’s almost too much to type, but anyone who’s interested lmk I can send you the talent spec and you can mess around with it!
I have the basic single target blood spec with the 3% hit from frost rather than the morbidity. Is the spec you are referring to really good for all round tanking? I thought the frost tank was only really good for aoe and not that good for single target (mostly for dps output and parses)
@@TheRab101 Our DK tank has also swapped to frost - once you massively outgear the raid, the increased damage, single target threat and instant aoe snap threat of frost is very nice to have.
Though he'll be back to blood for Ulduar start for survivability.
Hey there I am interested in this if you're willing to share
I’m interested 😊
interested
This is good timing as I’ve been levelling my DK and want to blood tank.
they are booring AF
mentioning the icy touch damage glyph would've probably been good, as it's the main one you go if blood tanking and over defcap, unless I missed it. Great video!
the taunt glyph is far more important, unless u plan to play with 17% hit as tank. Also def cap is not easy to reach even with Naxrammas Gear.
No its not...
@@huna7a I’m gonna be real man, your majorly wrong on this. I’m hitting 570 defense if I have tank gear in all slots. It’s enough where I’m dropping pieces to swap in dps pieces or icebane pieces for more effective health. Defense cap is simply as DK with your rune forges
570 defense, im calling bs unless u link it.
@@h3lol i am too with mostly 25man tank stuff, it is easy to reach, i should swap runeforges or so like mentioned fallen crusader
Damn I chose alchemy as my prof. Might be time to switch to Jewelcrafting for that spicy stamina gem. Amazing guide, ty. Subscribed.
You might want let people know warcraft logs has real issues with Logging DK OT parses due to their really outdated way of categorizing off tanking. Frost DK tanks should be in the same sort of situation as glad warrior, give the presence your in and the gear your wearing. However its not, you get logged as a ridiculously sub par frost dps. Ive spoken to them at length about this and they have no interest in changing it or even looking into it, which is really awful considering the meta of frost OT's is becoming more and more common. I would help if someone like you maybe brought it up?
They do separate frost tanks they give you the rune strike icon
@@ihaterethunters that's correct, and actually it should be a lich for frost... IF your main tanking. However because of how they categorise the tanks, you can MT a boss but if you don't hit the criteria you will be counted a frost regardless. Also, the OT situation is awful, they know they have an issue with categorising DKs correctly. If they are OT tanking in frost or UH. But they don't want to do anything about it.
The upsetting thing is they know the fix too. They just aren't interested in Changing it. I've spoken with them at length about it and nothing is likely to change unless someone like sarthe gets involved.
As long as I'm doing a Daily Heroic dungeon there's no way I'm even considering a spec that doesn't have 3/3 Morbidity.
Actual/Actually counter: ~44
Bonus info: That's on average every 21,43 seconds.
I would strongly recommend a deep blood (unholy subspec) DPS/tank spec. Dancing rune weapon with heart strike and rune strike does so much more damage than spamming icy touch while being able to maintain threat when needed. Plus, you can still take will of the necropolis and vampiric blood when things get tough. I also feel like I should mention that the spec in general is just so much more fun to play with.
You obviously have never played DK tank :D I bet i can do more threat with 2 icy touch than your whole rotation :D
@@nikolaykertev2457 yes sir
@@nikolaykertev2457 you're objectively wrong and more than welcome to settle for massive DPS loss you would provide as anything other than a threat bot :D
@@AcieEoff Let me get this straight, no one in their straight mind would take your 2k more DPS over a decent tank and your threat is definitely worse than a frost DK tank. You doing 2-3k more DPS is irrelevant, you only force the healers to try hard, eventually bring an extra healer. Instead of that you could go with 1 less healer and pick an actual DPS and not the joke you are. So yeah, i would love to see those logs where you are being useful :D
@@nikolaykertev2457 you really need to be more specific about what you're playing because I just straight up assumed you were dual raid spec tank. Either way, blood will pick up pick up WotN, spell deflection, vamp blood, and VotTW, all of which are actually good tank talents, so if you're concerned about healers (who aren't concerned about tanks), then blood would be the way to go anyway. Deep frost tank is definitely good though. There is a reason why top guilds are using them.
In the DW spec's I noticed you still have 5/5 black ice, was this intended to be that way or was it meant to be 3/3 Nerves of cold steel and 2/5 black ice?
Its a duel wield plague spec that I think could have some huge pvp potential. It uses lichbane on MH , crusader on OH. Haste and Crit gear with resilience gems.
05:49 Hysteria don't you dare ever call it unholy frenzy again :3
Just realized, Frost DK spec with Howling Blast glyph will increase damage for Mages that run TTW! How helpful
Specing my talents for my newly 80 DK tank, thanks Sartheeeeee
Actually a very informative video, i actually listen to the actual whole video.
And actually i hear the word actually alot.
Actually it was too much but since you actually know what you Actually are talking aboute its actually ok.
Cheers
Is Blood DW still a thing in ICC? or is 2h the only option? Fresh dinged 80, with 5,3k gs. Using 238 pvp 2h axe atm.
And nice video as always!
I loved the DW Frost DK with the Howling Blast glyph. It made the character have much more of a priority play style than an actual rotation. Don’t even need to use the plague strike in all honesty, but that’s me you can weave it in if you want but as far as threat it wasn’t necessary after getting some good gear.
Great vid there sir I enjoyed it.
I do have a question and I think it's the information this guide is missing to be even better: What about dodging, parrying and parry haste? I've tried to find more information about it because I've heard that it isn't a good idea to have much parry nor dodge and I don't know why. Does parry or dodge have a internal cooldown so after parrying an attack you can't parry another for few seconds? So does dodge? What is "parry haste" and why is it supposed to make you get more damage as a tank?
Parry haste is when the boss parries you or someone else Infront of the boss so boss swings twice instead of once.
Good guide, thank you brother!
4:50 resilience does not boost mitigation at all. It doesn't reduce your damage taken in any way except for chance of being crit.
but crits are hits with increased damage.... That is a complete contradiction on your part. According to wowpedia, uncrushability and resilience falls under the definition of melee mitigation.
@@JDBob3 I guess technically that's true... it offers mitigation until crit cap then no mitigation after.
@@eChuckNorris yeah, pretty much all defensive stats can be useless in certain circumstances tho. Like dodge, parry and block against spells, or magic resistance against melee attacks
@@eChuckNorris just like defense is barely considered mitigation past its cap, it's almost useless compared to the other defensive stats. But if your only way to hit cap is resilience, then i don't see why we wouldn't call resilience "mitigation"
@@JDBob3 I think it is mostly in the context of what it is doing. We consider mitigation as "reduction in damage" and avoidance as "reduced chance to be hit". In the case of defence, it provides no mitigation at all past cap, but it does provide slight amounts of avoidance. Resillience is the same except it offers nothing past cap, so it is technically mitigation unless you are capped. Armor is mitigation, resistances are mitigation, so I guess resillience and defense are too, except that they mitigate nothing more by going over cap, which the same can be said for armor and resistances... So yeah, resillience is mitigation with a low cap, I agree with you.
Which spec would you recommend for a fast pace heroic farm?
Frost for sure.
Dancing rune blade is quite a meme but, it gives quite alot of *pet dmg* for free basicly. Plus you get 2x frost fever & 2x unholy disease. (dont know does it benefit from lust) But it is super nice / fun ability to use also.
nah DRB is bad during wotlk for Tanks. Period. As sarth said diseases take 3 sec to tick, making them not that good for snap threat.
@@TheArcodar yet every single Blood dk are using it in top 40 (parsing) :) they might be on something. (none one runs, blood dk in Speed clearing).
@@Emiami12 Tru but only as a dps spec and that is useless compared to frost or unholy. The only reason you would do this is if you wanna get the parsing numbers, which again would be so easy because nobody plays blood DK dps :)
@@TheArcodar No its not its 10% more healing from DS its a defensive CD
@@TheArcodar It's not bad. It does decent threat for a single pt. It is bad if you try to do DW, but DW is bad, so don't do that.
Amazing video sir, this will be most helpful in my pursues into tanking.
Hey Sarthe looking for some help on some stuff.
So I feel like current unholy dk is wrong, and the bis build should be:
Dual Wield until snapshot
2-hand after snapshot
Current 2-hand dps meta-build only sims for like 500 dps less than the current dual-wield build, it's a trash build.
My 2-hand build sims for about 180 dps less than the dual wield build and this is without weapon swapping for
snapshotting or weapon swapping at all, which I believe would increase the dps.
I was hoping to see if it were possible to simm this weapon-swapping stuff and I am quite annoyed with the meta being "dual wield unholy is the only way" when it's almost on-par with dw.
Damm, great guide. Been around for like 15 years or more on this game, and it's always been hard to find a good frost/tank guide. I appreciate it.
Aby recomendation on balanced talents for both raid and dung tanking?
Which one of these works the best on dungeons?
No love for the Unholy DW Tank that I finished Heroic ICC Glory Achieve in vanilla as a main tank? Shame.
It was the most fun tank spec IMO and its also where the mechanics for Bone Shield came from that merged into Blood today, it was also good for DPS. It was a little more challenging to play but so much more interesting.
Which one is best for doing heroic dungeons? MY gs is 4.6k
Not sure why but wouldn't you take Nerves of Cold Steel increase dmg is really nice when using Rune Strike plus don't lower your miss chance during combat with off hand weapons ? Thanks for video
The most slept on dk tank talent point is deathchill. Having a guaranteed crit on my first icy touch or howling blast is insanely helpful for threat on bosses and big trash pulls. I do not understand how so many people skip it.
Interesting to know. I have never tried to tank with my DK.
Cause u don’t need it to tank bosses and ur not the aoe trash tank. So it’s useless unless ur solo tanking like a dungeon but then just play a different spec
@@skoverton5553I disgree snap threat is huge on bosses and I am the aoe tank when I frost tank for raid trash packs/dungeons
no, that talent is mostly useless. You can carry a KM proc from one trash pack to the next most of the time. It does almost nothing.
For 1 talent point i love Deathchill for a big howling blast crit for snap aggro
Great job, man. Thank you so much
great guide!
What addon was it that you were using to tell you resilience/def cap? Would love to have it, as I play both Prot warr/Pal and Blood DK.
Thanks!
As far as the rotation is concerned, wouldn't it be "better" (maybe not from a dps point of view) to wait and use death strike only when we're missing hp?
Nax is really easy content relatively, healers shouldn’t have a problem this phase healing. (Which is why frost tanks basically is dps with some tanky items), ulduaar icc toc you’re definitely going to want to focus on staying alive more although.
Depends on the situation. That can be better if you don't care about threat or dmg. You can also make use of rune grace to try to delay your Runes a bit to fish for healing.
@@ArtemMalian Apparently so, because you are rambling on about a hypothetical perfect raid comp, which no one is talking about.
@@ArtemMalian no pt in arguing with a meme spamming man child.
Hmm I never see frost tanks but it’s such a well designed spec I’d love to try it. Just wondering, if you are frost tanking do you use death strike in place of obliterate? For the healing? Assuming you need to be topped, of course
very good guide brother greetings from spain
What gems do I use as a Jewelcrafter who can get the gems one jewelcrafters can get? The pure stamina one? (+51) or do you for the red gem, if the bonus is good, go for expertise or dodge rating? And for yellow go for defence rating?
when is it considered a good time to switch to dw frost tanking?
New drinking game: take a shot every time he say the word "Actually"
Great video!
Any suggestions on DK addons for tracking runes?
Acclimatisation is a key element for frost tanking expecially in Naxxrammas, frost is real strong for bossess that hit with spells. This talent allows you to use one of you retri paladin auras for boosting your resistances and pretty much completely ignoring having a resistance gear whatsoever.
Unlike blood tanks, frost dps and unholy dps, frost tanks doesnt aim having howling blast or any improvements on aoe threat. In most cases frost tanks aim strong obliterate, icy touch and having acclimatisation. Some hybrids play for deathstrike frost tanking but deathstrike is pretty much useless on frost tank. You have healers for that and regardless of using it or not using it if your gear is not tuned well, you will still die, its a matter of the gear you use and not so much on the spells. Frost is good due to acclimatisation l, icy touch, killing machine and frost armor, but requires alot of armor and even more avoidance, also its not a well designed build, all the tank talents are spread in all the 3 talent trees, you have to decide which ones you want to have. Ideally frost tanks play with paladins for the maintank role and improve Spell Deflection from Blood. Frost tank can be main tank too but it will never be better than any of the other tanks except against caster bossess, frost dk tanks are unmatched there, till 5.7k gs you can and have to play with pure defense, parry, dodge/hit/expertise/armor gear but once you start raiding icc25 and killing Sindragosa and the Lichking, the gear should progress towards armor, defense, dodge. A must to have trinket for the starter avoidance gear is the one from onyxia lair quest that gives defense, parry and some hp regen (Purified Onyxia Blood Talisman). Best in slot weapons for dual wield blood dk tank and frost dk tank are the maces from the lichking in 25 player mode. They are both quick and very very good in stats. I play it without the t10 gloves for the avoidance gear and I use the crafting tank pants from blacksmithing for bis item and put back the t10 gloves with sanctified upgrade. That should be enough till 6.4k gs, everything else is upgrading on what you already have from icecrown and ruby sanctum. One big misconception is that the higher the item level is the better the tanking item it is. It all depends on what kind of stats this item gives to you. One such misconception is the tanking bracers from icecrown citadel 25 mode (I believe it was from marrowgar) is better than the deathbringer saurfang one from icc10.
TLDR
There's like no spells that will kill you in naxx.
what's the deal with the +str&stam gem? why not Guardian's with expertise&stam (even past soft-cap)?
As blood having issues snap threat on trash packs...Do I DnD then just blood boil or what?
I'm just learning right now that resilience works for mobs? Not just pvp???!?
Appreciate you Sarthe, thanks for the info
“Casting Aotd act like a mini shield wall” - does that mean only physical dmg or also magic dmg?
i dont know if it was a bug and fixed by now.. but howling blast didnt do any threat whatsoever in frost presence... i tried to do dungeons in the specc pretty much when naxx launched and i couldnt even hold a single ret pally storm with the blast. D&D on the other hand holds it easily...
Hello would it be possible to elaborate more on the frost dk rotation? Should i use obliterate at all or only use death strike?
You use obliterate instead of death strike completely for frost tank.
0055101533300303201--03503030500321000331012001
Is a double buff unholy tank spec, it is a little fruity as you need to learn how to and when to use bone shield. Your rotation will mostly be the same, you start with IT and keep diseases up with pestilence while spamming death strike.
Still no mention of Unholy tank...
hey what is the addon that shows your avoidance and defense at the top left of the screen at 4:02 minutes?
what about prot paladins who have a ton of single target threat, a TON of defensive abilities, and a TON of self healing xD
with the gear build at 12:30, what talents is he using with that? the frost or blood spec?
Windforce frost spec
do people not know about the lichborne death coil self target heals?
using your guide i will nw tank nax 25 thank you
GL getting double Last Laugh as blood tank KEKW
is dw best for phase 2 aswell?
I think the patched the HoW resetting blade Barrier, cause it don’t work for me any longer
Parry hasting was a thing in OG, which is why we used 2h weapons then, it is not a bug.
Sarthe is the Lore of classic.
what is the addon that shows the defense u need?
Any builds for unholy tanking? I happen to be the only unholy dk in my 25 mans, but I want to be able to tank as needed. For now I was just going to keep my dps talents and throw on tank gear. I'm curious if there are any better options.
BANGER VID
What's parry cap?
Are these specs still relevant ?
I like frost tanking it's so easy to run in and howling blast plus dnd then blood boil , use glyph of hb to apply FF etc
Hi, compared to a Paladin Tank, how would you rate your aggro as a Frost tank DK ? Same ? Better ? Less good ?
@@julien5053 my threat is superior to paladin but they have more mitigation with the shield 🛡
hey i was seeing logs and all of top logs players have heart strike plus i guess tank 11 which he plays on us server buils 52/0/19 talents and his gear was full mitigation can you help me to understand whats going on among top logs players and their build ?
Why no unholy tank? They are the best tank for spell heavy fights. You can take improved rune tap and even take the expertise from blood, while every other cd from unholy is very good against magic.
Unholy tank seriously was the most fun of the 3 for me.
Self healing? What's that?
Awesome video !!, just made up my own unholy offtank build for when im needed as 3rd tank (as our only unholy DK) - is there anything in unholy you could recommend for a 3rd tank spec ?
High parry and dodge stats for higher uptime of Bone shield and always prioritise having Bone Shield up. Consider DW for more parries I believe also.
Y'all shouldn't sleep on the unholy Tank
Best Guide Ever !!! i love all you'r Videos and i wish u all the best in ur life u are a good person and u deserve all the best
no, it's actually kind of bad. He should consider taking this down and revising it. There's already too many bad dk tanks.
Only thing this guide is really missing is a macro section
7:26 he says best blood dps spec.. Zirenes.. i assume he ment tank ? xD
Not a single top blood tank runs those normal builds currently. its all 2h rune strike builds using heart strike
Okay idk if its just me but I'm following this and other guides since pre patch and I'm having a hard time getting defense capped. Am I missing something or what if anyone has some advice it would be appreciated.
defense cap is super easy to reach, especially with the valor sigil you can buy in dal. You probably just have weak gear. I am finding reaching hit cap more difficult even with 3966 gearscore
why dont have Links to this bis lists?????
does anyone know the enemy nameplate addon at 0:55 ?
Does anyone know what's the addon showing a bigger profession interface? It's shown at 3:08. Looks much more easy to use than the default blizz UI one.
Hope you Got your answer but its probably Leatrix Plus
I've played the frost tank specs and I personally don't see the point of them in 25m raids.
Yes, you can pick up trash faster in 25 man raids, but not as well as literally any other tank. And normal guilds don't plough through trash all that fast anyway. Just alternate with the other tank on who's tanking a given trash pack and blood morb is good enough.
But what about speedrun guilds? They aren't using DK tanks. They're using feral offtanks. Feral brings higher damage, better mobility, spammable aoe, and better raid utility. And speedrun guilds don't currently need DKs to main tank anything, not even Sartharion, because shit dies so fast that you never need the DK's cooldowns. You'd much rather have your DKs running unholy morb and pumping dps.
So we're left with an unnecessary spec that, even though it does more damage and aoe threat, doesn't do its job of staying alive tanking the boss as well as blood does. Try using the non zerg strat for Sarth 25 and you'll be much more comfortable as a blood tank than as frost. I know because I've done both. Spell deflection and stronger self healing are fucking amazing for fights like that, and that's without even considering will of the necropolis.
The only time I'd recommend the various frost offtank specs are for DKs who want to solo tank 10m content. You can run frost for that and still bring the haste buff for your melee while speeding through with howling blast plus dnd.
Not that you should ideally do that. Other tanks can do better damage than you and still handle the content.
I agree, I think frost tank DPS isn't great for what you're sacrificing. However I don't think many people have seen or realized how good the deep blood tanking spec is. It keeps the tankiness of these standard builds, but matches boss DPS from warrior tanks and you still pick up morbidity and can absolutely blast through trash packs. If you look at logs, US and EU DK tanks have just not figured this out yet and most tanks in that region seem to want to stick with prot paladin.
frost tank is great for fights like thadius, were you just have to tank a little add and swap to dps afterwards. DRW/Unholy is just awesome for the rest.
In the DK deep dive you did, it was mentioned that targets given frost fever via glyph of howling blast do not benefit from Tundra Stalker. Was this changed or was it incorrect?
DK tanks are the 2nd worst tanks in Ulduar. The only reason I'm running as one is for Steelbreaker's Falcon Punch. Otherwise, they're actually kinda bad.
Paladin, yet again, is S Tier. I don't find DK tanking to be all that wonderful
Macro please with rune striker
thanks for the guide.... would it be better to stack resilience for PVP? also may I ask what blood build in video do you think is most unkillable? im some broke cunt so i can tbuy gear hahahha gear still shitty 5k gs tank gear , ill start buying eof gear soon i got all koltira's gear bought with EOT at the moment... any advice would be greatly appreciated.... i dont play pussy spec ussually , I play unholy ... just want to use it for the 20vs7 guilds lol
also im using 2 hander weapon Bryntroll, the bone arbiter
Have you seen the talent trees in retail? Made me retire my classic 4.2k GS toons
ultimate hunter guide please
Im playing 2h blood tank and following every bis list Im struggling with hit, I dont understand how should I use stam gems, when I have to use almost all gem slots for hit, can someone explain and help, what am I doing wrong?
How much hit rating do you have? Dont worry too much about being capped as a tank, just try to get as much as you can with gear, and dont gem hit
It's simple. You don't need hit cap, and you should not be trying to get hit capped atm. You probably read that on that useless blood guide on wowhead, but it's wrong. It doesn't even follow it's own advice.
@@rasmuskjaerpoulsen from gear Im gettimg around 5% hit and I notice that Im missing alot during bossfights, those pestilence misses hurt the most
@@krzysztoftarnawski1263 honestly theres so much conflicting information out there its hard to filter, some say never take hearthstrike you'll just troll your guild some say its a must, some say to make sure ur 5%hit capped some say u shouldnt, and it is all from what seems like credible sources (aka people who have played a lot of dk)
Im amazed you havent shown the dungeon hero spec which is 27/17/27 and its the most amazing thing ever
Link ?
Sauce ?!
@@axlrad307 stupid youtube deleted my comments twice now because i posted link
@@rasmuskjaerpoulsen split it up as separate words that would work
@@trendkillcfh it also deleted my comment about what to search on google to find the guide. I think its the channel creator himself
Should have asked Kungen. 🤣
He said dk..
Whatever you do do not listen to this guide for ulduar progression
"so make sure you're utilizing resilience its a really easy way to massively boost your mitigation"
KEKW
its easier to reach crit cap with resi, which makles it easier to go for items with higher avoidance / mit.
blood dk tank is so boring and shitty to play but the frost dual wield version looks actually fun
Finally!
Laughs in Chinese and Korean blood tanks who are using 2H weapons, PvP sets and Strength Gems! Lol