This is the most comfortable that I've ever seen Keith in front of the camera. It took a while, but we got him there. lol Interesting diag Ivan. Thanks!
I was a Powertrain engineer for Ford for over 30 years. On older Fords WITHOUT "throttle-by-wire" their entire idle/closed throttle strategy is different ! First, on any gasoline engine, you never want the throttle plate to make hard contact with the throttle bore/housing. This is a potential for the plate to get locked in the bore and even stomping on the accelerator pedal may not free it. Second, in the Ford strategy, the minimum TPS is recalculated every time the engine is started. This is done by starting with an artificially high value and then looking for a lower average value (𝑖𝑔𝑛𝑜𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑜𝑤 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙 𝑏𝑎𝑛𝑑). This only takes a split second. Even if you hold your foot on the accelerator pedal at start, you will eventually move your foot and the correct minimum TPS will be calculated. Third, to try and keep the idle air bypass solenoid from clogging, they ALWAYS want air flowing through the IAC at closed throttle. To achieve this you want minimal/no air flowing around the throttle plate at closed throttle. That was achieve by spraying a soft compound around the backside of the throttle body, between the throttle plate and throttle bore when it was manufactured. CLEANING/REMOVING that soft compound (𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑠𝑙𝑢𝑑𝑔𝑒) means that air CAN get past the plate at closed throttle and the IAC may be commanded to no airflow, raising the potential that it will clog. (𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑝𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑑 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑖𝑙𝑦 𝑤𝑖𝑝𝑒 𝑜𝑓𝑓 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑎 𝑏𝑟𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑛𝑒𝑟 𝑠𝑜𝑎𝑘𝑒𝑑 𝑟𝑎𝑔.) EDIT : I forgot to add, throttle shaft/bearing/bushing wear ACN be compensated for BECAUSE all of the air at closed throttle should be going through the IAC. If there is some air leaking in, the PCM can adjust for it.
so you're one of the chosen that had a hand in all the surging, lean hot restart/stalling, backfiring/blowing the DPFE, odd downshift/gear hunting, engine rpm/power run-on at low power cruise and brake apply............ I'll just stop there
Great info Jack, thank you for sharing! My 1996 Mercury Mystique 2.0L has a specific note on the throttle body that warns against cleaning off this special coating! I have lightly wiped the bore, but it runs beautifully so I won't touch it haha
Light wipe is fine. To get the factory stuff off takes some work ! With a stick shift that is a nice car. P.S. I wrote some of the software in that PCM.
right, the warning is there so "Bozo the clown" doesn't give it a harsh/caustic chemical bath, wire wheel/brush/sandblast! yep, seen a few sandblasted and acid etched clean before. RIP
When it's 9 degrees outside there is nothing better to do than watch you two tackle a challenge. I've noticed that I'm able able to follow along much easier and understand the thought process better. One day I'll get up there and hold the camera for one of you guys, then the real learning begins! :)
I have cleaned the throttle body on various years of these vans and solved the idle problems each time. Always the cause in my experience if all other maintenance was up to date. These are simple engines with simple control systems. Good reliability when serviced regularly. The models without EGR tend to not have as much filth behind the throttle plate when the throttle body is removed for cleaning.
Eric O had a Chrysler van with comm issues. He started tracking down the different modules the computer talks to and when he leaned on the carpet in the back he found the problem!! It was behind the passengers right seat. The comm wire had rubbed through and was grounding on a bolt. CAN signal technology. Isn’t it great 👍
Not all problems have a clean answer, even with expert diagnostics. I have a feeling this one will be back, though in an old car the expense of complicated diagnostics has be be considered. I keep thinking back to that messy sensor ground wire signal, although I guess it might be normal ignition induction. Finding the cause of that could take hours, and even then there's a pretty high chance it won't lead to a solution.
I was thinking pin fitment problem on the integrated power module because I noticed from BBB Industries wiring diagram that the PCI bus for just the PCM and ABS were on their own pin so theoretically if the pin on the bottom of the power module was bad then you'd communicate with the PCM via SCI bus, not be able to communicate with the ABS, and no car modules would communicate with the PCM because they depend on the PCI bus.
I watched you unplug the pcm. The 2002 Dodge Caravan I am having "missfire cylinder 2 and 5" and sometimes a code saying coil driver is either shorted to ground or has intermitant open. I went and unplugged the pcm and noticed that the wire harness had been resting on the front of the engine block near a ground. I lifted the harness off the engine, zip tied it up and cleared the codes. I drove it around and again got the #2 missfire, but no more #5 or coil driver grounded/open. I think tomorrow I will strip the harness and see what wires are fried.
Yeah, it's always an issue as to how much time a busy business can spend on a vehicle chasing gremlins. Seems the best decision is to fix what was malfunctioning and let the customer decide if he wants to live with other minor issues or spend more money fixing them as well. I say you called it right.
I always learn something new every time I watch someone work on modern vehicles. Never knew about that minimum TPS voltage stepping up like that with key cycles! Chryslers sure are odd. Remember their old slogan? "Dodge - different" ... well, they got THAT right at least!! :D
Ivan- What you did with the PCM is referred to in the computer world as "Hot Swapping". Worn throttle shaft bushings were a common problem on carburetors, especially Carters from the mid '70's, then they changed to oiled bronze. Even though it's only a tiny vacuum leak- today's systems are so precise (comparatively) that any False Air is easily detected. Isn't the formula orifice size/over/speed of air to be measured g/sec? When Keith wiggled that throttle it had a huge runout of a few thousandths of an inch- easily enough to skew it. Eric would've reattached the air duct, then shot it with brake cleaner, and watch the idle increase. A smoke test will reveal that, too. ST/LT trims would be screwy. That ground didn't just look "noisy" it looked like it was hooked to the radio, LOL.
Ivan, interesting diagnosis! i had same problem with my throttle body on GMC Suburban. i cleaned it extremely well and checked for the play on the arm etc. everything was A-OK, put all back together, my idle came back at 650-680 rpm and TPS at 2. but I did replace my IAC and TPS thinking it was the root cause. but turned out my TB was the problem. kinda the same thing you just went through! that problem i had was 4 years ago. LOL.
I was figuring that the IAC valve was sticking, since the idle speed was normal before. Upon restarting the engine, most IAC valves are commanded to a larger opening for a restart. The larger opening "flares" the engine speed up to around 1500-2000 rpm for a second or so before the IAC is returned to curb idle.
On can bus the information is everywhere, that's the beauty of the can bus network. when you deselect one module that unit is cut out but everything else is still barking on the network.
Thanks that was interesting, Ivan I’m noticing a pattern with you, Maybe it’s something you can look at objectivity. You seem to want to talk over people that have a different line of thinking, just look at this vid again and think about it, thanks again for all your hard work!
Joe Laplnski most intelligent people have a tendency to do that. Constructive criticism is never a bad thing. He seems like a pretty decent person. I’m sure he doesn’t intentionally talk over people.
My Saturn had a fast idle. Ended up replacing the IAC. Fixed it for a while. Pulled the throttle body and cleaned completely. Apparently the orifice for the IAC built up enough carbon to stick the IAC. Before the IAC on cars there was a dampener on the throttle to keep it from slamming shut. I thing the IAC provides this function. I think?
My biggest concern is the current rating of the diver in the PCM. I use solid state power relays for this type of kludge. These have a very low operating current
Awesome, new vid! By coincidence, I've got a 2001 DGC with the dreaded "torque converter lockup not detected" code. the thing isn't worth what it'll cost to have the transmission dropped and the converter replaced, I'm sure. :/
The RS-platform Chrysler minivans are a series of passenger minivans marketed by the Chrysler Corporation from model years 2001 to 2007,.... but someone already found that.
Yeah cardone is always screwing up vins on ECMs. If your ecm is bad and not available as a factory part you might as well just junk it. I have seen ECMs rebuilt 2-3 times and they keep failing.
The IAC could also be gummed up with carbon build up? I have an 03 caravan and had both carbon build up on the IAC and throttle plate! No high idle after getting it cleaned!
Check the throttle shaft to bushing clearance. If it's acceptable (no egg-shaped bushing wear or gross air leaks), clean the throttle body and ship it...
lots of cars have more than one bus.. high speed and a low speed.. modules can talk to the each other on both or at least pass on a message that it can't talk on the other bus...
That Dodge doesn't have a coating on the throttle plate so safe to clean. Other throttle bodies may have a coating on the edges of the throttle plate. Remove that and create a high idle problem.
Ivan Are you familiar with comm. Issues on a solus pro. Out of the blue my scanner stopped reading all vehicles. If not i have to buy something else. I've been looking at solus edge. Are there any other off brand scanner's you would recommend. The solus edge is 2400 new which isn't awful.
Ricky.Sweeting1984 i'm working on a intresting case right now but i have to see if it will be suitable for making a good video. Got a lot of ideas on educational video's i want to make, but i've got to find some time. But sure enough there are a lot more video's comming!
I had a similar problem with a Fiat. The solution was removing the trottlebody cleaning it and cleaning the IAC, then sprayed some silicone-oil into the IAC, never had a problem anymore.
Willem Streutgers The IAC is in the intake stream. Silicone will end up in the exhaust. That is why they have O2 sensor safe rtv. It doesn't take much to poison a sensor.
Ivan, I’m wondering what your thoughts are on the Slap-Off Virus? I ask because Eric O., before getting the Pro version always complained about his crapping out. Has Snap-On finally fixed the issues with them?
The van is running just about normal for an old Dodge. :) Ivan why do you think unplugging the PCM 'fixed' the no comm prob. I had a hard time hearing what Keith was explaining at the end and now I might lose sleep over this. lol Was it a pin fitment issue and/or a power reset?
could of been combination of both i had similar issue on a Grand cherokee p1687 comms issue customer installed reman pcm i went through same checks i ended up doing a battery reset touch cables together and problem fixed car has not been back for months
Many of these old chrysler/dodge Minivan PCMs don't like the battery disconnect and can register a p0601 from voltage irregularities. My PCM rebuilder modified his install instructions to hook up the PCM with the battery connected and start it once letting it idle 15-20 minutes to register values before shutting it off. Strange little computers.
PFM! Lol. I had a ford do this to me once. had a crank no start no communication with PCM, ABS, and something else, had communication with all the interior stuff tho (air bags, hvac, stuff like that) went after the com wires on pcm, had to get the cover off the connectors to find my wires, and to do so i had to unplug it. after i plugged it back in, had a coworker turn the key forward to the "on" position, he accidentally went to "crank" and the bastard started right up! PFM! (pure f'n magic!)
My car had the same problem idle up too high on cold starts I reset it by cycling the key and it works don’t know why the car was doing that but drove it for 2 years doing that
the magic of making all BUS devices reset and resync. or will we see this back due to bad ABS/wiring? they probably did't unhook the battery after programming the PCM to vehicle which left some/all bus devices on the bus in an unknown state. I don't want/care to learn crapslers bus protocol and function :)
Kinda what my Toyota acted like one time when the A/C kick-up switch was stuck. Hard to believe the throttle body just went bad between 2 start ups. Naw aint going for it
Well at first there was the weird comm issue, but it was still idling 200rpm too high. Unplugging the PCM just reset the min TPS voltage and made the problem worse until the MinTPS value was relearned :)
Been holding on to this one I see cause your not all bundled up lol. Hope the new Job is great. Have you decided on Vision. I'm transporting a couple others there as I will be driving and I know it's a long distance for you so if you wanted to come to Michigan and you could ride along or something.
*Another fast fix!* Ivan or Keith... I'm looking for an older mid-sized Japanese 4x4 SUV. I cant seem to find a reasonably priced Toyota Land Cruiser. What is you opinion on an 02 Isuzu Trooper 3.5? I know Isuzu car sales left the country like Suzuki, but how much is it a pain to get OEM Isuzu parts? I plan to keep it at least 10 years. I dont live near salt either. THANKS!
We having been having problems getting OE Isuzu parts for the last few years, the Medium duty truck dealers will check for you but lots of parts are NLA and there is only one warehouse in the US for light duty parts and they are not restocking as parts are sold off. We bought the last air intake boot for a late 1990's trooper a few years ago.
Jim Haines Thanks for the input. By reading the only Isuzu forum boards, that seem to be a bigger and bigger issue! PARTS! I think I'm going to pass, and save a little longer for the Land Cruiser. 😎
Land Cruisers I wouldn't exactly classify as mid-sized. They are also the high end, Lexus suv that has a toyota badge. Go look up the price of them new. They never were cheap, but they do look like they would get you anywhere on land. 4Runner is much more mid-sized. A lot more common also, so cheaper. You can also go with Nissan, I've had good luck with pathfinders. Being on the east coast, salt belt region, check for rust, then check again.
ivan, I been watching you for year a find you to be a interesting character. you seem to be doing alright, so I guess my question to you is why you would accept another job, if you like automobile repair work, and try to grow into a bigger shop like eric o has, you have the smarts I think to do so. anyway how is the new job going if you have started, your friend barry.
Hey John, so far so good! Just getting into the flow of things, doing online training courses and such. Who knew that all that college math would come in so handy?!
Boy your popular Ivan when you have Vladimir Putin dropping a note. I was looking at another persons channel(loves to use brake cleaner) and saw Vladimir and Donald Trump commenting on the same thread. Can’t get more exciting then that.
my ford once a year would forget its idle speed and set it to around 400 rpm, it would stall, a disconnect of the battery and it would be fine again for a year
Throttle is at 10%.. Right there was your clue. It should read Zero.. I would add. You take that Throttle body off. As them things get nasty dirty back there..I seen them so caked up. I had to scrub the bores clean with a tooth brush..
Sorry, but I don't like Keith looking over my shoulder - I know he's a God, but I don't like "quizzes" as I work. "what is the minimum TPS voltage, etc., etc.." that has to be grating. More and More questions from Keith to Ivan. If I was Ivan I would ask KEITH questions. He answers: "good questions."
Hey Ivan, how did orientation go on the new job. How'd you like the part where they told you about the healthcare plan, the vision plan, the prescription drug plan, the dental plan the 401K plan with employer matching contribution (unless their cheap) plan. You just can't beat being on corporate welfare here in the good old USA. Unless you're making $200,000 a year self-employed you're losing money considering the fact that you get no benefits.
Hey Dennis! First week on the job was smooth. And wow the benefits are nice...even signed the wife up for healthcare :) Corporate welfare haha more useful then regular welfare!
Exactly, this is the point I've been trying to get through your thick Russian skull for two years. You can either work on rusty shit boxes for cheap money or get on the corporate gravy train. I never worked for a company worth less that 10 Billion. The big boys are where the money is and money is the main reason I got up to go to work. You can still fix cars as a hobby, but if you want to make bucks you've got to work for THE MAN. I laugh my ass off every time I hear the line that small business is the future of America. If that's true then poverty is the future of America. Small business is bullshit. How can you make money working for somebody who's not making that much himself. Also, in the rare cases that he is cleaning up the owner of a small business is in business to get himself rich not his employees.
+SATAMAN Schmidt If only there was something like universal free health care... But that's communism. No way in hell. Better sell my soul in fear of having to chose over medicine or food, that's literally what you're saying and apologetic about. Impressive how your older generations have been completely brainwashed.
None of Europe is communist anymore. Yet all have universal free healthcare. Great Britain, Sweden, France and Germany are about as capitalist as it gets and apparently better at it than we are since their standard of living is higher than ours. Either you're too young or stupid to realize that before about 1975 damn near every American had universal free healthcare because if you had a job, damn near anywhere including McDonald's, it was part of your employment package. Then Wall Street figured how the hell did we get stuck with this bill? And frankly they were right. Nowhere else on Earth is an employer expected to pay for your healthcare. How the hell did this system, which clearly makes no sense, ever come into existence? The healthcare of the citizenry is clearly the responsibility of the Government or at least every other country on Earth thinks so. Here's how. In WWII there were extremely strict wage and price controls and there was a huge shortage of labor as there were no excess workers as there is today as many of them had gone to war. You could not offer somebody another quarter an hour to come to work for you or you went to jail. What you could offer them was benefits. This is how all of the benefits we currently associate with a good job came into existence. Healthcare, vacations, pensions all of that was the result of the WWII wage and price controls. When there is a labor shortage the capitalists will always find a way of getting the labor they need. In short they pay up. In the 1970's, with the downfall of unions precipitated by Regan's breaking of the air traffic controllers union and the onslaught of automation and computers, this all changed. We now have an excess of labor. So, the employers asked themselves why are we paying for all of this when we can find all the labor we need without it. First pensions died (lucky for me I've got two of them) then healthcare. Only "special" labor - that which cannot be easily replaced gets these benefits anymore. The corporations are only going to extend these "perks" to those employees that are essential. The lesson to be learned - become essential to the corporation.
I am putting out there what many of the shyster car lots are doing ;) and of course trying to add some funny to it. sometimes a worn or aftermarket junk TPS can cause voltage offset too.
I don't like it when Keith always seems to want to put Ivan on the spot. Not a good situation. Keith is always asking, asking, and asking questions of Ivan. Leave him the hell alone. Keith finishes with "what do I know.." He knows he knows it - get the hell out of Ivan's hair - leave him to do his work. Thank you.
This is the most comfortable that I've ever seen Keith in front of the camera. It took a while, but we got him there. lol Interesting diag Ivan. Thanks!
I was a Powertrain engineer for Ford for over 30 years. On older Fords WITHOUT "throttle-by-wire" their entire idle/closed throttle strategy is different !
First, on any gasoline engine, you never want the throttle plate to make hard contact with the throttle bore/housing. This is a potential for the plate to get locked in the bore and even stomping on the accelerator pedal may not free it.
Second, in the Ford strategy, the minimum TPS is recalculated every time the engine is started. This is done by starting with an artificially high value and then looking for a lower average value (𝑖𝑔𝑛𝑜𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑜𝑤 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑎𝑙 𝑏𝑎𝑛𝑑). This only takes a split second. Even if you hold your foot on the accelerator pedal at start, you will eventually move your foot and the correct minimum TPS will be calculated.
Third, to try and keep the idle air bypass solenoid from clogging, they ALWAYS want air flowing through the IAC at closed throttle. To achieve this you want minimal/no air flowing around the throttle plate at closed throttle. That was achieve by spraying a soft compound around the backside of the throttle body, between the throttle plate and throttle bore when it was manufactured. CLEANING/REMOVING that soft compound (𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑘 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑠𝑙𝑢𝑑𝑔𝑒) means that air CAN get past the plate at closed throttle and the IAC may be commanded to no airflow, raising the potential that it will clog. (𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑝𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑑 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑖𝑙𝑦 𝑤𝑖𝑝𝑒 𝑜𝑓𝑓 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑎 𝑏𝑟𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑐𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑛𝑒𝑟 𝑠𝑜𝑎𝑘𝑒𝑑 𝑟𝑎𝑔.)
EDIT : I forgot to add, throttle shaft/bearing/bushing wear ACN be compensated for BECAUSE all of the air at closed throttle should be going through the IAC. If there is some air leaking in, the PCM can adjust for it.
so you're one of the chosen that had a hand in all the surging, lean hot restart/stalling, backfiring/blowing the DPFE, odd downshift/gear hunting, engine rpm/power run-on at low power cruise and brake apply............ I'll just stop there
Great info Jack, thank you for sharing! My 1996 Mercury Mystique 2.0L has a specific note on the throttle body that warns against cleaning off this special coating! I have lightly wiped the bore, but it runs beautifully so I won't touch it haha
Light wipe is fine. To get the factory stuff off takes some work ! With a stick shift that is a nice car. P.S. I wrote some of the software in that PCM.
right, the warning is there so "Bozo the clown" doesn't give it a harsh/caustic chemical bath, wire wheel/brush/sandblast! yep, seen a few sandblasted and acid etched clean before. RIP
Chryslers are just magical like that, in their flow charts they should add Wish upon a star at the end
You should ask Eric O about dodge grand caravans, they're his favourites
Eric was calling to say "Don't touch any wiring!" Haha
I see Keith's wearing the Snap-On gang colors.
jimmy figgs not a Snap on fan though
@@keithdefazio9613 snap off
When it's 9 degrees outside there is nothing better to do than watch you two tackle a challenge. I've noticed that I'm able able to follow along much easier and understand the thought process better. One day I'll get up there and hold the camera for one of you guys, then the real learning begins! :)
Both of you guys know your stuff great video thanks
I have cleaned the throttle body on various years of these vans and solved the idle problems each time. Always the cause in my experience if all other maintenance was up to date. These are simple engines with simple control systems. Good reliability when serviced regularly. The models without EGR tend to not have as much filth behind the throttle plate when the throttle body is removed for cleaning.
Caleb true .I have seen many with 250,000 to 300,000 miles of good service on them .
Always I learn something interesting from you , greetings from Mexico
Another great vid. Going to miss these
Good ole FM !!! Love it.
Eric O had a Chrysler van with comm issues. He started tracking down the different modules the computer talks to and when he leaned on the carpet in the back he found the problem!! It was behind the passengers right seat. The comm wire had rubbed through and was grounding on a bolt. CAN signal technology. Isn’t it great 👍
As usual, good work! Greetings from Poland.
great stuff, im going to miss these
Not all problems have a clean answer, even with expert diagnostics. I have a feeling this one will be back, though in an old car the expense of complicated diagnostics has be be considered. I keep thinking back to that messy sensor ground wire signal, although I guess it might be normal ignition induction. Finding the cause of that could take hours, and even then there's a pretty high chance it won't lead to a solution.
I was screaming at the screen to clean the throttle body forever in this video!!!!!
Didn't help lol
I was thinking pin fitment problem on the integrated power module because I noticed from BBB Industries wiring diagram that the PCI bus for just the PCM and ABS were on their own pin so theoretically if the pin on the bottom of the power module was bad then you'd communicate with the PCM via SCI bus, not be able to communicate with the ABS, and no car modules would communicate with the PCM because they depend on the PCI bus.
I watched you unplug the pcm. The 2002 Dodge Caravan I am having "missfire cylinder 2 and 5" and sometimes a code saying coil driver is either shorted to ground or has intermitant open. I went and unplugged the pcm and noticed that the wire harness had been resting on the front of the engine block near a ground. I lifted the harness off the engine, zip tied it up and cleared the codes. I drove it around and again got the #2 missfire, but no more #5 or coil driver grounded/open. I think tomorrow I will strip the harness and see what wires are fried.
Yeah, it's always an issue as to how much time a busy business can spend on a vehicle chasing gremlins. Seems the best decision is to fix what was malfunctioning and let the customer decide if he wants to live with other minor issues or spend more money fixing them as well. I say you called it right.
I always learn something new every time I watch someone work on modern vehicles. Never knew about that minimum TPS voltage stepping up like that with key cycles! Chryslers sure are odd.
Remember their old slogan? "Dodge - different" ... well, they got THAT right at least!! :D
I think their junk I wouldn't drive/own one they are cheapie vans on Craigslist list all the time no taker here pass go
It took a long time to decide to clean the throttle body! It might work even better with a removal and proper cleaning.
Ivan- What you did with the PCM is referred to in the computer world as "Hot Swapping". Worn throttle shaft bushings were a common problem on carburetors, especially Carters from the mid '70's, then they changed to oiled bronze. Even though it's only a tiny vacuum leak- today's systems are so precise (comparatively) that any False Air is easily detected. Isn't the formula orifice size/over/speed of air to be measured g/sec? When Keith wiggled that throttle it had a huge runout of a few thousandths of an inch- easily enough to skew it. Eric would've reattached the air duct, then shot it with brake cleaner, and watch the idle increase. A smoke test will reveal that, too. ST/LT trims would be screwy. That ground didn't just look "noisy" it looked like it was hooked to the radio, LOL.
Ivan, interesting diagnosis! i had same problem with my throttle body on GMC Suburban. i cleaned it extremely well and checked for the play on the arm etc. everything was A-OK, put all back together, my idle came back at 650-680 rpm and TPS at 2. but I did replace my IAC and TPS thinking it was the root cause. but turned out my TB was the problem. kinda the same thing you just went through! that problem i had was 4 years ago. LOL.
Yup clean before replace is what I would do as well!
I was figuring that the IAC valve was sticking, since the idle speed was normal before. Upon restarting the engine, most IAC valves are commanded to a larger opening for a restart. The larger opening "flares" the engine speed up to around 1500-2000 rpm for a second or so before the IAC is returned to curb idle.
On can bus the information is everywhere, that's the beauty of the can bus network. when you deselect one module that unit is cut out but everything else is still barking on the network.
Thanks that was interesting, Ivan I’m noticing a pattern with you, Maybe it’s something you can look at objectivity. You seem to want to talk over people that have a different line of thinking, just look at this vid again and think about it, thanks again for all your hard work!
Working on it lol
Joe Laplnski most intelligent people have a tendency to do that. Constructive criticism is never a bad thing. He seems like a pretty decent person. I’m sure he doesn’t intentionally talk over people.
Keith so laid back , must be cool learning from the master Lol
Even Ivan has a Dodge Caravan Channel.....Eric is not alone ;)
My Saturn had a fast idle. Ended up replacing the IAC. Fixed it for a while. Pulled the throttle body and cleaned completely. Apparently the orifice for the IAC built up enough carbon to stick the IAC. Before the IAC on cars there was a dampener on the throttle to keep it from slamming shut. I thing the IAC provides this function. I think?
You can have both. I've seen this setup on older Toyotas :)
My biggest concern is the current rating of the diver in the PCM. I use solid state power relays for this type of kludge. These have a very low operating current
Awesome, new vid! By coincidence, I've got a 2001 DGC with the dreaded "torque converter lockup not detected" code. the thing isn't worth what it'll cost to have the transmission dropped and the converter replaced, I'm sure. :/
The RS-platform Chrysler minivans are a series of passenger minivans marketed by the Chrysler Corporation from model years 2001 to 2007,.... but someone already found that.
were do you get those lovely diagrams from?
Don't forget that PCM also uses ignition timing to control idle speed.
My dream car 😍
A 2003 Caravan? I thought you are more of a full size GM guy, Mr President :)
Yer...Every circus needs a Caravan or two
I would rather buy a bicycle
Looking forward to another “cooking with Ivan” video!! Lol 😂
Great idea! I have the perfect recipe to share ;)
Cardone = Car Not Done.
Yeah cardone is always screwing up vins on ECMs. If your ecm is bad and not available as a factory part you might as well just junk it. I have seen ECMs rebuilt 2-3 times and they keep failing.
Keith knows everything !!!!
Pretty much lol
The IAC could also be gummed up with carbon build up?
I have an 03 caravan and had both carbon build up on the IAC and throttle plate!
No high idle after getting it cleaned!
Check the throttle shaft to bushing clearance. If it's acceptable (no egg-shaped bushing wear or gross air leaks), clean the throttle body and ship it...
There's a bus because you can get codes - but everything says there isn't a bus. Engineered by Chrysler.
seems to be a rather short bus ;)
lots of cars have more than one bus.. high speed and a low speed.. modules can talk to the each other on both or at least pass on a message that it can't talk on the other bus...
That Dodge doesn't have a coating on the throttle plate so safe to clean. Other throttle bodies may have a coating on the edges of the throttle plate. Remove that and create a high idle problem.
Ivan Are you familiar with comm. Issues on a solus pro. Out of the blue my scanner stopped reading all vehicles. If not i have to buy something else. I've been looking at solus edge. Are there any other off brand scanner's you would recommend. The solus edge is 2400 new which isn't awful.
I've got a feeling you guy's will see this car again soon😓, was this video recorded before the bad weather or did it clear up?
How's the new job?
DiagnoseDan have you got any videos due out? Your channel is fantastic...
Ricky.Sweeting1984 i'm working on a intresting case right now but i have to see if it will be suitable for making a good video.
Got a lot of ideas on educational video's i want to make, but i've got to find some time.
But sure enough there are a lot more video's comming!
That's great news! Really enjoy watching your videos, very educational. 👍👍
Thanks Ricky! These guy's your watching are great to!
Hi DiagnoseDan, this vid was from a month ago before the cold spell :)
Friggin voodoo, LOL Ivan if you can get to where Keith is only one or two steps instead of five or six will be good.
Yeah Eric o is the bomb 💣
I had a similar problem with a Fiat. The solution was removing the trottlebody cleaning it and cleaning the IAC, then sprayed some silicone-oil into the IAC, never had a problem anymore.
Willem Streutgers silicone is not safe for oxygen sensors
IAC is not an oxygen sensor. It's a valve and the shaft will get stuck due to dirt.
Willem Streutgers The IAC is in the intake stream. Silicone will end up in the exhaust. That is why they have O2 sensor safe rtv. It doesn't take much to poison a sensor.
By saying SOME silicone oil i ment just enough to leave a touch of silicone oil (1drop)on the shaft.
Ivan, I’m wondering what your thoughts are on the Slap-Off Virus? I ask because Eric O., before getting the Pro version always complained about his crapping out. Has Snap-On finally fixed the issues with them?
The van is running just about normal for an old Dodge. :) Ivan why do you think unplugging the PCM 'fixed' the no comm prob. I had a hard time hearing what Keith was explaining at the end and now I might lose sleep over this. lol Was it a pin fitment issue and/or a power reset?
It was just plain old FM...F'n Magic!
could of been combination of both i had similar issue on a Grand cherokee p1687 comms issue customer installed reman pcm i went through same checks i ended up doing a battery reset touch cables together and problem fixed car has not been back for months
Ozzstar I was wondering the same thing about unplugging and plugging back in the pcm..
Many of these old chrysler/dodge Minivan PCMs don't like the battery disconnect and can register a p0601 from voltage irregularities. My PCM rebuilder modified his install instructions to hook up the PCM with the battery connected and start it once letting it idle 15-20 minutes to register values before shutting it off. Strange little computers.
PFM! Lol. I had a ford do this to me once. had a crank no start no communication with PCM, ABS, and something else, had communication with all the interior stuff tho (air bags, hvac, stuff like that) went after the com wires on pcm, had to get the cover off the connectors to find my wires, and to do so i had to unplug it. after i plugged it back in, had a coworker turn the key forward to the "on" position, he accidentally went to "crank" and the bastard started right up! PFM! (pure f'n magic!)
That throttle valve shaft has to be sucking a lot of air judging by movement on the video. @19.30
would this work on an 2009 journey? the dash looks like a Christmas also.
At 30 minutes, I'm thinking: Why not the coolant temperature sensor? You know, high idle when starting, etc. Is staying at high idle?
I'm amazed it made it that far lol
Question ? Do u have a shop repair in state collage pa or do u come to the place where the car is located in philly??
I have one of those turds and it is very sensitive to throttle body cleanliness. I have to clean it once or twice a year or the idle is high or low..
burn it with fire as fast as you can ;)
Hey.............it's my daily driver.
don't you mean daily wrench on?
Wouldn’t a clogged IAC result in an erratic idle not necessarily a fast idle.
You'd think so. It's restricting air bypass but the computer thinks it needs to run faster resulting in a slow idle that runs rich.
RS is the chrysler platform code For the 2001-2007 Caravan/Town&Country RG is the Chrysler Grand Voyager (Europe) platform code
whereas RS = Raw Shit, because that's what they were ;)
First😎
On the ball as usual Keith ;)
Keith you seem to be everywhere.. are you following me?? :)
Gaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy
Joe Smith took you long enough .. now don't worry , the rainbow parade will still accept your late entry
BWAHAHAHAHAAA!! Nice one Keith. :D :D :D :D
My car had the same problem idle up too high on cold starts I reset it by cycling the key and it works don’t know why the car was doing that but drove it for 2 years doing that
the magic of making all BUS devices reset and resync. or will we see this back due to bad ABS/wiring?
they probably did't unhook the battery after programming the PCM to vehicle which left some/all bus devices on the bus in an unknown state.
I don't want/care to learn crapslers bus protocol and function :)
Very interesting.
Could we use carb clean to clean out MAF wire?
38:28 did Keith said the problem was pin fitment issues ?
Kinda what my Toyota acted like one time when the A/C kick-up switch was stuck. Hard to believe the throttle body just went bad between 2 start ups. Naw aint going for it
Throttle body didn't go bad between 2 startups lol
Thought you mentioned that it was idling fine then all of a sudden it was not, so IAC. I guess I didnt hear what your final analysis was.
Well at first there was the weird comm issue, but it was still idling 200rpm too high. Unplugging the PCM just reset the min TPS voltage and made the problem worse until the MinTPS value was relearned :)
So it did end up being just a little high on the Rpm, 900 or so?
Hey ivan how are u. I have a question what would you buy a snap on verus or a maxysis elite let me no have to decide Wich one to get thanks
Been holding on to this one I see cause your not all bundled up lol. Hope the new Job is great. Have you decided on Vision. I'm transporting a couple others there as I will be driving and I know it's a long distance for you so if you wanted to come to Michigan and you could ride along or something.
Hey Mike! I have a few good ones saved up in the vault ;) Not sure about Vision...depends on travel schedule of new job!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics Awesome I always look forward to them
*Another fast fix!*
Ivan or Keith... I'm looking for an older mid-sized Japanese 4x4 SUV. I cant seem to find a reasonably priced Toyota Land Cruiser. What is you opinion on an 02 Isuzu Trooper 3.5?
I know Isuzu car sales left the country like Suzuki, but how much is it a pain to get OEM Isuzu parts? I plan to keep it at least 10 years. I dont live near salt either. THANKS!
We having been having problems getting OE Isuzu parts for the last few years, the Medium duty truck dealers will check for you but lots of parts are NLA and there is only one warehouse in the US for light duty parts and they are not restocking as parts are sold off. We bought the last air intake boot for a late 1990's trooper a few years ago.
Jim Haines
Thanks for the input. By reading the only Isuzu forum boards, that seem to be a bigger and bigger issue! PARTS!
I think I'm going to pass, and save a little longer for the Land Cruiser. 😎
keep saving your money buy the toy
4Runner!!
Land Cruisers I wouldn't exactly classify as mid-sized. They are also the high end, Lexus suv that has a toyota badge. Go look up the price of them new. They never were cheap, but they do look like they would get you anywhere on land.
4Runner is much more mid-sized. A lot more common also, so cheaper.
You can also go with Nissan, I've had good luck with pathfinders.
Being on the east coast, salt belt region, check for rust, then check again.
Great video.
Hey Ivan can you please give me a link for that piercing prob that you are using. Thanks
Dirty throttle body may prevent the throttle plate from closing.
But tang was returning all the way to the throttle stop!
ivan, I been watching you for year a find you to be a interesting character. you seem to be doing alright, so I guess my question to you is why you would accept another job, if you like automobile repair work, and try to grow into a bigger shop like eric o has, you have the smarts I think to do so. anyway how is the new job going if you have started, your friend barry.
Morning Ivan.
Hay Ivan how was the first day at the new job?
Hey John, so far so good! Just getting into the flow of things, doing online training courses and such. Who knew that all that college math would come in so handy?!
Hello ivan, my 94 jeep Cherokee 4.0 starts to jerk/buck at 45 mph and has a code 14 map sensor, could that be the cause.thks
Jaime Sustaita no. That is caused by my big cock.
Boy your popular Ivan when you have Vladimir Putin dropping a note. I was looking at another persons channel(loves to use brake cleaner) and saw Vladimir and Donald Trump commenting on the same thread. Can’t get more exciting then that.
Dimitrimagic!
my ford once a year would forget its idle speed and set it to around 400 rpm, it would stall, a disconnect of the battery and it would be fine again for a year
Clean it just a bit more ,I feel..
Too many hens in the hen house
I am at the 22 minute mark and I think the throttle body is just dirty.
2 sec and tumb up 😎
Throttle is at 10%.. Right there was your clue. It should read Zero..
I would add. You take that Throttle body off. As them things get nasty dirty back there..I seen them so caked up. I had to scrub the bores clean with a tooth brush..
If you keep scanning for error codes - you will see P0$001 means take me to the junk yard and buy new car . Lol
Stinky Mickey Mouse tech u will never work on any of my vehicles 😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
?
Very Christian like 👍
I have to look agian it must be % 7.6 its a modus ultra i will check it
5th?
5 is the magic number Joe!
Sorry, but I don't like Keith looking over my shoulder - I know he's a God, but I don't like "quizzes" as I work. "what is the minimum TPS voltage, etc., etc.." that has to be grating. More and More questions from Keith to Ivan. If I was Ivan I would ask KEITH questions. He answers: "good questions."
Hey Ivan, how did orientation go on the new job. How'd you like the part where they told you about the healthcare plan, the vision plan, the prescription drug plan, the dental plan the 401K plan with employer matching contribution (unless their cheap) plan. You just can't beat being on corporate welfare here in the good old USA. Unless you're making $200,000 a year self-employed you're losing money considering the fact that you get no benefits.
Hey Dennis! First week on the job was smooth. And wow the benefits are nice...even signed the wife up for healthcare :) Corporate welfare haha more useful then regular welfare!
Exactly, this is the point I've been trying to get through your thick Russian skull for two years. You can either work on rusty shit boxes for cheap money or get on the corporate gravy train. I never worked for a company worth less that 10 Billion. The big boys are where the money is and money is the main reason I got up to go to work. You can still fix cars as a hobby, but if you want to make bucks you've got to work for THE MAN. I laugh my ass off every time I hear the line that small business is the future of America. If that's true then poverty is the future of America. Small business is bullshit. How can you make money working for somebody who's not making that much himself. Also, in the rare cases that he is cleaning up the owner of a small business is in business to get himself rich not his employees.
SATAMAN Schmidt Your comments are right on point. Sad but true.
+SATAMAN Schmidt If only there was something like universal free health care... But that's communism. No way in hell. Better sell my soul in fear of having to chose over medicine or food, that's literally what you're saying and apologetic about. Impressive how your older generations have been completely brainwashed.
None of Europe is communist anymore. Yet all have universal free healthcare. Great Britain, Sweden, France and Germany are about as capitalist as it gets and apparently better at it than we are since their standard of living is higher than ours. Either you're too young or stupid to realize that before about 1975 damn near every American had universal free healthcare because if you had a job, damn near anywhere including McDonald's, it was part of your employment package. Then Wall Street figured how the hell did we get stuck with this bill? And frankly they were right. Nowhere else on Earth is an employer expected to pay for your healthcare. How the hell did this system, which clearly makes no sense, ever come into existence? The healthcare of the citizenry is clearly the responsibility of the Government or at least every other country on Earth thinks so.
Here's how. In WWII there were extremely strict wage and price controls and there was a huge shortage of labor as there were no excess workers as there is today as many of them had gone to war. You could not offer somebody another quarter an hour to come to work for you or you went to jail. What you could offer them was benefits. This is how all of the benefits we currently associate with a good job came into existence. Healthcare, vacations, pensions all of that was the result of the WWII wage and price controls. When there is a labor shortage the capitalists will always find a way of getting the labor they need. In short they pay up.
In the 1970's, with the downfall of unions precipitated by Regan's breaking of the air traffic controllers union and the onslaught of automation and computers, this all changed. We now have an excess of labor. So, the employers asked themselves why are we paying for all of this when we can find all the labor we need without it. First pensions died (lucky for me I've got two of them) then healthcare. Only "special" labor - that which cannot be easily replaced gets these benefits anymore. The corporations are only going to extend these "perks" to those employees that are essential. The lesson to be learned - become essential to the corporation.
Don't
Over
Diagnose
Great
Engineering...... 😂
Reset The Tps & Do Idle Relearn .
hillbilly fix, small round file/drill, open the TPS holes so it can rotate slightly further........
If it was my own van, that would be my solution too lol
I am putting out there what many of the shyster car lots are doing ;) and of course trying to add some funny to it.
sometimes a worn or aftermarket junk TPS can cause voltage offset too.
On my 3.8 min tps voltage 7.6
7.6V? But TPS range is 0V to 5V...
gotta love dodge lol
RX is receive, TX is transmit
keith seemed pissed @ 25 minute mark.... lol what do i know he says....
Fuck keith !!!!lol
I don't like it when Keith always seems to want to put Ivan on the spot. Not a good situation. Keith is always asking, asking, and asking questions of Ivan. Leave him the hell alone. Keith finishes with "what do I know.." He knows he knows it - get the hell out of Ivan's hair - leave him to do his work. Thank you.
Last :(
Last?
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics the first couple of comments said first, second third and so on. I just put last for grins and giggles
Of course the lesson is don’t buy Chrysler’s
If I banned all Chrysler products, what will the mechanics of this nation do for work? 🤔
it would be cool if you were really Donald Trump and Could Really Bring Back The Great Jobs Like Back in The 1970;s !! But That Will Never Happen !!!
9th Post!
Im not jokeing !
Please get cheked for cancer.
im just concerned for your health
NickiLasse It's a Chrysler. Completely understandable that you would be concerned about it.