Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2.1 - The Broken Circle
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- Strange New Worlds is back! So here's Seán with all the Ups & Downs from the Season 2 premiere.
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I’m going to disagree with Sean about the 100 million dead from the Klingon War. Considering an estimated 75 million died during WWII, the figure M’Benga gives is very believable.
yep. starfleet era weapons on say current US, China or Indian populations could easily top 100 million, in each of those countries alone now imagine entire worlds.
There's 8 billion people on Earth right now, let alone the 23rd century. 100 million is 1.25% of that. Now, add numerous planets, colonies, and include other species... 100 million would almost be a LOW number. The Klingons bombing the surface of ONE planet could result in that many casualties.
Agreed
I think in TOS Spock mentioned 30% of the worlds population died in WIIII. Based on today's estimate world pop of 8 million, that's 2.4 billion people killed.
I mean, WW3 killed at least six hundred million people, and the extinction of six hundred thousand species of animals and plants. So 100 million is a small amount by comparison.
I continue to be blown away by Ethan Peck's portrayal of Spock. Just fantastic.
I enjoy and respect the work you're doing here, but I'm forever grateful that I cut my Trek teeth on TOS reruns in the 70s. Continuity concerns and "cut & paste" starships just wash over me, because I remember how loose it all was in the beginning.
TOS was the beginning for me as well, in the early 80s. And it was the true beginning because I hadn't even seen Star Wars yet. But both it, and all the others of the era, never quite sat right with me. I prefer structure. Probably because I had to read the Bible as a kid, and the sheer sloppiness of the story and the stupidity of its structure and content just soured me.
Now, unless a story is very consistent and well-built in all aspects, it's mediocre at best to me.
Totally agree. I thought that Zachary Quinto was good, but Ethan is totally amazing!
I meet him in person. Legit honest and wholesome person
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Given that, I have to wonder how you can stand to watch Trek, or most long-form serialized programming, in the first place. But do whatever works for you.
@@hayleygolding4187 I thought Zachary Quinto was good also, I just wish he would have tried to do "the voice" a bit more. His natural voice is just too high-pitched...
Not gonna lie, The tribute to Nichelle brought tears. 🙏🏼🖖🏼
same here. it was beautiful
Me too, so beautiful
Yes, I agree.
Yeah just found she's gone..
Definitely got me in the feels, seeing that... and I think it was definitely needed! ❤
You didn't mention the nod to "The Menagerie" at the end. When Adm April decides to go easy on Spock he says "next time, and there better not be a next time... it's your commission." Which explains why Spock knew full well it would be the end of his career when he hijacked the Enterprise to go after Pike. Just perfect!
I was going to say the same thing.
Wow, I CAN’T believe I didn’t get that connection until I read this! Thank you so much!
he probably didnt think of that given how distracted he seems
I am surprised that Sean did not up the scene between Ensign Uhura and the maintenance staff who wants to modify her console. Not only did it show that Uhura has been promoted and posted full time on the Enterprise but also her commitment to her post and her duties. Remember last season she was unsure if StarFleet was right for her. Now it is clear she has fully embraced her roll on the ship and her career in Star Fleet. It was a major up for me.
Agreed. It's also a really nice, organic moment of Uhura becoming more confident and willing to assert herself.
Same, I expected an UP for that.
Now only if she had hair... though the fact they actually put makeup on her was nice.
Hopefully they are building her up to the uhura we know from the original series/movies.
@@Sindalis1one can only hope... she is lt by the time kirk take over... just an ensign now
*role
Loved that Pelia told them how to make the “warp breach” more convincing to Starbase by venting the nacelles.
*Warp Core Breach. Sorry I had to correct you.
I would like to give the Klingon Captain an UP! Even in his limited screentime, he nailed it. He encapsulated that TOS vibe of caged rage, cold pride and arrogance and a touch of shadyess (we in TNG got alot from Romulans) but also you can feel with him a path to mutual understanding is possible. Reminded me of a combination of Kang, Kor and Martok.
Oh yeah, good point. I hope that actor comes back once more because he really nailed the balance in how he played it.
I've got a bit of a headcanon that this was the real first stage of the Khitomer Accords. The Klingons would have chosen to talk to Spock for a reason, this encounter decades ago showing that Spock can be trusted would definitely be thought of if that Klingon officer was still around and had moved up in the ranks. Even if it was just a general "Hey, not all of Starfleet is shit" vibe that he set, that would have been important.
Funny you are saying that cause he surely looked like the klingon that we saw in Star Trek VI, at the beginning of the movie and then so on with the rest.
I love that guy. We absolutely need to see him back.
Is it just me, or did he bear some resemblance to what a young Chancellor Gorkon would look like? Would love to see a cameo of him, or even better, General Chang.
The end, when it said, For Nichelle, who opened the door, damn, I couldn't hold back the tears.
Loved how Pelia saw right through the Warp Core breach ruse and then joins the scheme wholeheartedly.
Given how many times we were reminded that she taught engineering at Starfleet Academy, I wonder how long it will be before she name-drops a brilliant but... unorthodox student from her teaching days she always called 'Scotty'.
Beautifully executed "show, not tell" and with mere seconds of screen time they've perfectly introduced a completely new character.
She hasn't had engines of her own in "a century". I was sorry that this video didn't have anything to say about that. From what I can tell, this episode is set in 2260, which is exactly one century after Archer stopped being in command of the Enterprise, and 99 years after the founding of the Federation. I would have enjoyed some speculation about Pelia's past with regards to the established timeline. If Seán didn't talk about it, then maybe they could have gone to Canon Watch and Seán could have filled us in.
I love that we see Chapel and M'benga both have a touch of PTSD. And that they fought together during the war. Babs and Jess sell that fight quite well, too. Siblings in arms, friends, and coworkers. And la danse militaire is such a way to show their being a well fit team...
But it does raise the issue of "First, do no harm"...
I share that sentiment. I kept asking myself if they pulled that out of a hat or if i wasn't paying close enough attention. The presenter said something about discovery so it's definitely a possibility.
Takes a bit of the "battle medic" vibe Bashir had in DS9.
Can't save your patients if you're dead...
They took the equivalent of steroids to even match up against the klingons, who are faster and much stronger than normal humans. Steroid can lead to roid rage, which is what I took their fighting capability to be. Aside from it being purely defensive in their moves, which go toward the "do no harm" code.
I was kinda expecting M'benga to have a Rambo: First Blood type breakdown at some point (when he's talking to Col. Troutman in the sheriff station about the war and home), but clearly that will come up in a later episode.
It’s Kurtzman-era Trek! Who doesn’t have PTSD or some other trauma to cope with? Honestly, at this point is now a cliche.
This episode definitely lays the ground work for how Spock becomes Revered/honored among the Klingon people…definitely can’t wait for Kirk to return 🖖🏼
I hadn't thought of that. Now I'm going to have to pay attention to any Klingon interactions in the coming 8 seasons (Eight! Do not dispute me on this.)
@@BlazeMiskulin I’m hoping for 8 seasons
As much as I love all the characters on SNW, I just love Peck as Spock. Never once have I felt like I was pulled out of the story by thinking nah that's not Spock. He plays him fantastically well, and is totally believable as a younger version of such a well known character (unlike, say, Alden E in Solo)
Peck definitely understands what makes Nimoy's Spock work, without trying to copy Nimoy. Similarly I think SNW captures the spirit of TOS without being a copy of TOS.
I think Spock's actions in stealing the Enterprise is why you see Starfleet do repairs and refits to ships inside Space Dock instead of outside by the time of the movies. Starfleet just assumed it's a lot harder to steal a ship if it's in the garage and the door is closed rather than having it parked on the curb outside.
Maybe I did have e ideas of spock stealing the enterprise as a nod to the crew under kirk...
I agree, but I also agree with why the docks were moved off base and to Jupiter at some point because they also agreed that if a ship went critical, there was no way to get them out of the star-garage lol
Could be that because of Spock stealing the ship is why SF comes down so hard on Kirk later on. Sort of like how in S1, they switched from General Order 1 to calling it the Prime Directive after Pike's actions.
Especially considering that Spock steals the Enterprise twice.... Once here, and once in TOS...
This does explain why Uhura was willing to stay on Earth in Star Trek IV. She'd already stolen the Enterprise once.
Can add to next week's Cetacean list: "lanthanide" is also the section of elements on the periodic table also known as "rare-earth" metals.
6:47 spock has officially stolen the enterprise twice now I died laughing over it 😂
This was the dress rehearsal for when Spock steals the Enterprise again in "Menagerie"...😉
Explains why it was so easy for him
The Nichelle tribute got me all tear'd up.
Ahhh! The episode is complete! The SNW is not complete until we’ve heard from Sean!!!
100% agree. It's funny how much I've come to see these ups and downs as part of the show. Thanks Sean and crew!
I feel the same way!
Qaplaaaaa’ to that! This is always the first thing I watch after a new episode. It’s the most fun thing to watch in the Trekiverse.
I watched the episode and enjoyed it. Then I started to watch the Popcast ups n downs. After 15 minutes I could see the negative direction it was going and decided to pause it and watch The Ready Room instead. Great Ethan Peck interview that kept the positive vibes going. Now Sean is mostly positive while gently getting some downs going.
I think that APril's comment near the end, where he tells Spock about never stealing the ship again (which he then does TOS, to take Pike to Talos IV) was a great nod, and should have gotten an up.
Pelia reminds me of The Doctor in Doctor Who. It's hard not to see the parallel considering that they just introduced this new species that is very similar to the Time Lords given that they can get hundreds if not thousands of years old and the first representative of their species that we meet is somebody who got bored and wants adventure, helping to steal a ship.
Guinan's species being incredibly longlived has previously been established, so I just assumed Pelia is one of them, and we've seen at least one other survivor of the Borg genocide of Guinan's species in Star Trek: Generations, so there can easily be others around.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog The Borg refugees were trapped in the Nexus at the time and rescued by the Enterprise-B in 2293. And we already know the name of their species, El-Aurian. This is a new long lived species called Lanthanites.
As far as the 100 million dead... this is the first time I thought Star Trek got that their scale right. I mean they're annexing planets.. ours has 8 billion on it alone. If anything 100Million dead is low, but its an order of magnitude better than previous estimates.
I just looked it up. 100M would definitely be low. it's not even twice the number that died during world war 2 alone. And the total population of the planet was only 2.3 billion at the time. (3%, or 50-56 M people died because of WW2)
@@godofbiscuitssf yeah and that's at the low end of it
There's numbers that easily take you to 75 million people If not more and as you say we only had about 2.3 billion people to take it from
And if we say that they did invade planets and if the numbers of these planets have let's say 5 billion people
And you do this more than one time as is implied
Then 100 million people is on the lower end of the low end estimates
Just saying 🇧🇻
The counterpoint to the WWII comparison is that you'd expect the Federation to put more value on every single sentient life. Also, with the advent of drone warfare, there are far fewer military casualties. But, given the presumably much greater population of the Federation, 100 million is certainly a reasonable number. In fact, given the attention to detail in this show, I have to think the writers' room had a discussion a lot like this to workshop that number.
In a multiplanetary war like this, I can imagine 100 million being a pretty light body count, considering the potential for destruction of the weaponry involved.
@@bobohm21 Extremely light. See WW2.
Can we all take a moment to appreciate how epically gorgeous the SNW opening credits are, and how amazing the theme is?
I couldn't agree more. Just when I thought Season 1 opening titles were the best, they make it even better.
Oh ya. I really love that they changed it up a bit and added some new scenes.
I've also got the SNW theme as my mobile phone ringtone. Best ST theme I've ever heard
I tear up *every* time I see the opening because of the promise being realized by this series. I have loved trek since watching TOS with my dad. I loved TNG and DS9. I enjoyed VOY and ENT. In retrospect, I watched Disco and Picard for the scraps of trek (no offense, just my opinion) I could get. But there was an underlying perspective that I couldn't really articulate that had been lost--until that first episode of SNW: Hope. The ideal of sentient beings celebrating their differences and working together, striving to be better and be just. When TOS was on the air, our world seemed to be moving in that direction--on the upswing, as it were. Today. It does not feel that way... and I miss it terribly.
I agree with Seán about the downs. To be honest, I don't think there has been an episode where I felt there wasn't some lazy writing. The Enter-heist was indeed an egregious offender. Pretty silly. It also reflects on the TOS episode that never mentions the FIRST time Spock stole the Enterprise. This guy is a repeat offender!
Oh, yes. I turned to my husband with the comment "We've come on a bit since that original Enterprise flyby."
The episode addresses Sean's complaints about stealing the Enterprise. La'an's message says there's a major incident brewing, so they're not just going there to rescue her. And it states that the Enterprise's resources are essential to resolving the situation, so they can't just take a shuttle.
Just what I was gonna say
Especially considering that they specifically needed the enterprises firepower to take out the fake federation ship and that if it wasn't for the enterprise specifically taking out that ship, the klingons would never had believed the federation that it was a false flag operation.
On a level of logic I agree. However I have to say it was executed poorly. The whole thing (including Chapel and M'Benga on them Klingon ship) didn't create an emotional snese of danger or urgency for me. And I'm usually easy brought to the edge of my seat.
Maybe there was a little bit too much comedy in it for such an high stakes episode. (Don't get me wrong - I love the comedy aspects. But they work better for me in low stake episodes)
And Constitution class ship or one of similar firepower would've done though :)
I guess a call first to Starfleet Intelligence wasn't feasible.....
And I think SF played Spock. They couldn't officially send a ship, and could disavow a stolen ship if they failed.
I do wonder if another reason April was lenient was that perhaps Star Fleet was aware of what was going on. However, due to political considerations they were unable to act, at least not officially. That might explain why there was no pursuit of Enterprise, as in ST: III and the leniency.
I think that is a fair point.
Completely agree. I think the fact that it was Spock and not someone (anyone) else stealing the Enterprise was a major selling point for April to look away. He needed the plausible deniability in the advent something went wrong.
Maybe they even helped. After all Pelia gave them the perfect way to leave spacedock. Seems kind of odd, don't you think?
@@johnmiller7682 I was thinking the same thing. Like Star Fleet wanted this to go that way.
My thoughts exactly. "Officially, we can't support this mission (wink, wink, nod, nod)."
Ortega was calm during all that happened in the episode. It is almost as if she missed the war, and during the war, she got to show off her piloting skills. Just from the episode, it come across as though she learned Klingon behavior very well, from afar, while Chapel, and M'benga learned it up close.
Definitely - you've reminded me a bit of real-life absolute madlad Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart, who stated "Frankly, I enjoyed the war" about World War 2. It's adjusting to peacetime that can be the biggest issue for many real life veterans and I hope they dig into that theme further, particularly as Ortegas hasn't been the real focus of an episode yet.
@@Mcsqw I hadn't thought of that, but you are right. With your comment I can see the similarities.
Maybe it’s just me, but I feel that M’Benga discussion with Spock about learning to live with anger and even rage “Like humans do” was great foreshadowing for him having to relive his trauma from the war. Down to the line he gives Chapel about not being fine but controlling it.
During an episode of shuttlepod show with Ron Moore he spoke about visuals of what it would be like to be transported from the perspective of someone being beamed. I can’t help think someone from the sfx dept of SNW heard that and thought.. that would be cool and we ended up with the scene where Chapel and M’Benga getting beam back from being in space. That’s was so good to me
This is not the first time we are shown what the process might look like to the person being beamed, almost a whole episode of STNG is devoted to it, seeing it from Barkley's persepctive. That said, I LOVED them throwing that in, totally unexpected.
When they dedicated the episode to Nichelle Nichols, I teared up for real - sadness and joy. So wonderful.
I loved La'an's interaction with Uhura, where she realized Uhura was commissioned and acknowledged it. Kind of a big deal to me that she's no longer a cadet. And it also takes us past the need for the show to have a commissioning party or anything because we're a couple months after season one ended. Straight to the point.
Why did this not get an Up Sean??? Why not???
TBH, I'm also really struggling to sign on to your "logistical down" on M'Benga's reference to 100 million Federation deaths in the Klingon War. Well, that war lasted for around a year - and when the Discovery returned from the Mirror Universe around TWENTY PERCENT of Federation space had been occupied by the Klingons inside of nine months. The assault on Starbase One resulted in 80,000 casualties and the complete destruction of three starships with all hands.
Sorry, I don't find that number remotely implausible.
Yea i was surprised the death toll was that low considering it was a war that spanned multiple star systems with no telling how many colonies on habitable planets and moons and space stations. One D7 could cause that many casualties just bombarding one planet with a sizable population in one battle.
@@ArronRatliff Have you ever read Ian M. Banks' Consider Phlebas? The end of the book is an in-universe extract of a history text that reframes the cataclysmic events we've just read of as a minor skirmish in a war that saw almost 900 billion dead, hundreds of millions of ships and stations destroyed, dozens of planets burned clean, whole sentient species driven to extinction and even whole stars snuffed out. And is considered no more than a mildly interesting footnote in history that even at the time passed unnoticed by most of the galaxy. Which really puts things in some kind of perspective.
@@CRanapia No i haven't read it but i will now. Damn those numbers are beyond mind boggling.
I quite love the D-7 scene when it is arming its disruptor (nacelle) cannons. That was 😘 *chef's kiss*
I think the 'extra ship' at SB1 being a down is a bit much. A continuity error at worst since it's missing later, but easily explained by the fact that ships can come and go for a multitude of reasons to the point of being a non-issue. Obviously (or at least I hope so) the extra ship being docked is not the 'same' ship as the false-flag ship later in the episode, even if it is the same digital file/model being reused to flesh out SB1 while not commiting the crime of a copy-paste fleet.
Additionally, it's space and I wish there were more situations where ships were able to interact/dock without matching orientation. Being upside-down matters very little and it annoys me that basically every ship interaction has to have the same 'gravity alignment'.
In fact, I'd argue the battle on the Crossfield Class that inverted the camera as they went through a plate on the floor... only for the camera to invert again because it would 'look cool' annoyed me enough to pull me out of the action. So maybe there was a down deserved for playing with spacial orientation where it wasn't needed.
Going to have to watch it again, but do we actually see the mystery ship in the dock...or just a pair of engines? Possibly a set of upside down engines being worked on to install later onto another ship?
We used to refer to gravity alignment as "the galactic Up Treaty."
An addendum: I don't know how many others were expecting the 1st ep to be Una's trial but I sure was, so that this was so far from my expectations made me happy.
I love it when they surprise us
I'm just tickled the show is back. As a fan since the 70s, SNW is the most fun series since TNG.
I think the thing you're missing with stealing the ship (and I agree it's a bit too much, too fast) is that Doctor M'Benga just told Spock he would have to deal with his human emotions. This may be Spock acting irrationally because of his extreme emotional reaction. They didn't do a good job of connecting those plot points, but I do think they intersect.
This is how I took in when watching it. I was actually more surprised none of the other crew members in the meeting called him out or poked fun at his reactions as that I feel would have been more in line with what we had seen in other treks when dealing with questionable actions by characters like Spock/Data. Think they missed a trick there.
@Plagued Death That may come later when Spock returns to the Logic of his Vulcan heritage and we see him as he was portrayed by Leonard Nimoy in TOS. Some hardship/failure is coming that makes Spock choose logic over emotion. I'm sure his decision will be so that he will never feel that type of pain again, but others will see it as a superiority complex of Vulcans over humans and he will be chastised for it.
@eliotanders3488 and I think it may be his conflicting feelings regarding T'Pring and Christine that is the reason, especially as we know that T'Pring ultimately rejects Spock, in turn he obviously rejected Christine because of his loyalty to T'Pring. Imagine passing up on true love, then get rejected? Definitely a time to choose logic over emotion.
@Hayley Golding Those situations happened after he chose logic. What we see there, with T'Pring in Amok Time, is the consequence of his choice.
@@eliotanders3488 And the timeline is 7 years before Amok Time which means this season Spock will be going through Pon Fahr. So add that to the overcome with emotions quandary. If he cheats on T'Pring with Nurse Chapel then that gives her a real good reason to reject Spock 7 years later.
I agree the "are you going to say the thing?" was awkward...but it works. Enterprise is ordered to put some distance between it and the station. So it moves away and then waits...That is exactly what the station expects. Then suddenly the ship warps away. We know they are "stealing" the ship, but the station doesn't. April may have thought something was up, but said nothing because he wanted away to help L'An without sanctioning it.
I feel like that would have worked better if it was at the end of the episode.
"Are you going the say the thing?"
"What thing?"
"We were so rushed trying to get way you didn't get a chance. You gotta say the thing before giving the chair back to Pike."
They should have had some dialogue for this. Like, “officially I’m telling you you can’t go, “ wink wink. I don’t know, felt like they where trying to hard on that part. Only down for me really.
I do have to disagree with you here.. The problem I've found is that in modern trek, the 'engage' alternative has kinda been shoved in our faces a bit. When you look back and classic trek really didn't have it as a thing, Janeway, Picard and Sisko always generally used 'Engage' (with 'Make it So' and 'Do it' being secondary).. When it comes to the more modern trek's decision to have captains give a different call, Discovery has had a scene about it, Lower Decks has memed on it, and it's started to feel like something everyone has to do. The conversation on the bridge (especially given the somewhat urgent context) just felt like more rubbing this in our faces. If Spock had just spontaneously given the line without prompt and the crew reacted, it would have at least given a nod to what most viewers know was happening, gave a chuckle, without kinda giving a 'dead stop' to the action while the ship was being stolen.
Just my 2c though :)
@@FrostyCoolSlug I see your point, and agree with it as well.
It also struck as odd that they are rushing to rescue La'an at only Warp 5. At least take it to Warp 6, or push it to Warp 7.
The fact that everyone on the bridge just seems to go with the Klingon's fake Federation ship being a Crossfield-class makes me think this might actually be the original or standard design for that ship. I think it's believable that Discovery and Glenn were refits with a unique secondary hull to accommodate their spore drives.
It would make sense for them to copy an actual ship design rather than make a new one up. That would give Starfleet a chance to say 'it wasn't ours, we don't have a ship of that design in the entire fleet'. That's also why I have no issue with it being at the starbase
Honestly, the ship doesn't look Crossfield Class, It looks a lot like the USS ARES.
I can't believe we get to do this again another season! Let's do this!
I'm going to say that the scene where La'an is drinking with the Klingon reminded me of the drinking game from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
so years ago I had a fanfic idea of vampires being a species that lived on earth alongside humans, and eventually leaving earth. Pelia reminded me of that concept so strongly and it was exciting.
Get to writing! Sounds like a great concept.
I'm sure I read somewhere that on old Spike from Buffy was meant to turn up in an episode Firefly. That would have put the two shows in the same continutity.
So first, just want to say that I absolutely love these Ups and Downs episodes. I look forward to them probably as much as I do the actual star trek episode. Literally, whenever I watch a new episode of Star Trek, I immediately go next to it's corresponding Ups and Downs. You never disappoint Sean. You're awesome, and Chris' edits are amazing. Seconding...Sean, where do you get your amazing star trek shirts. The uniforms...I'm fat so those won't fit but the t-shirts man, I love 'em.
Love the return of the Klingons original look, and the return of the D7. And now we're introduced a new species, the Lanthanites.
I really like how the disruptors on the nacelles move and open up. Like a Klingon version of the pop up phaser turrets.
I love all the characters in SNW and all the actors' performances are top notch.
An up i would have added is the close up panning shot of the sips near the beginning, being able to see into the rooms inside the ships through the windows very well, and the angles of the perspectective of the walls and floors and tables and doors adjusting correctly as the view inside would be seen by someone going past outside. Great 3d detal work, I noticed and thought it was quite cool.
I agree. The “what’s your thing” is getting really cheesy now. The timing for it here was bizarre. I’m not sure why they’re even doing this as Picard, Sisko and Janeway all said “Engage”. It was never a thing that every captain has to have their own ‘thing’. I hope it’s never mentioned again in any series 😂 In saying this, I really enjoyed the episode. Can’t wait for more!
Welcome back to Strange New Worlds 🥳🎉🎉🎉
Plus ups and downs are always fun
The range everyone within this cast brings to life, is beyond words.
Cannot wait to see what unfolds
had to drop a comment about the shot flipping with m'benga and chapple lifting the hatch when they dropped and then it reversing when they landed on their feet, that whole scene was awesome!
I’m not sure if I was just dreaming, but I think when the D-7 warps in and the Enterprise crew were discussing it, the music for the scene was a subtle nod to the Undiscovered Country main theme, which makes sense given that the plot was similarly trying to trick the Klingons into war with the Federation.
One thing that actually lends even more sincerity to the "stealing the enterprise" in the TOS movies, is how easily spock did it this time, and how lightly he got off with doing it. Knowing full well if he ever did that again, hed likely get in even worse because he literally was told if he ever did it again, hed be booted from starfleet.
i think my trillium down for this episode is just how much Sean kept harping on the stealing of the enterprise. Watch it again, this plan would have never actually worked if it wasnt for pelia telling them how to do it correctly. And it sets up WHY its such a huge bad thing in the future to steal a ship, even for the best or noblest of reasons.
Anyone notice how Pelia appeared to get emotional each time she mentioned Spock's mother Amanda? And the part about Amanda being one of the first people Pelia "came out" to, made me think there was a strong friendship, or perhaps something more between the two women. I'm not saying Amanda was blsexual, Maybe Pelia was in love with Amanda and that love is unrequited. As for when Spock guesses the worst part of being nearly immortal is outliving everyone one loves was accurate. Pelia saying that only applies to people with open hearts, then breaking the sadness with a joke about boredom. I think Pelia has experienced a lot of sorrow, but it's not the kind of thing one talks about with people they just met.
I wouldn't mind if that's where they go, but hell... I'm inclined to not over-think it. I think any woman who had the brain, empathy and emotional intelligence to make a life with Sarek on Vulcan (and do it in the face of the formidable talent many Vulcans have for being passive-aggressive assholes) would be a person it would be easy for someone who had been living her entire long life hiding in plain sight to feel deeply affectionate towards. And I think she's deeply intrigued by Spock -- he's certainly not boring. :)
I really hope they don't go this direction.
There is this trend in media lately for fans to want to ship most strong female relationships as romantic instead of sororital or maternal.
It really railroads character development and stymies unique avenues for them to grow.
I was fully expecting them to warp away when they were told to put some distance between them and the base. They never specified *how much* space. 😂
Also, imagine how Sarek would take the news of *another* of his children starting a war with the Klingons.
True: "Put some space between Enterprise and Spacedock.... Not that much!"
Starbase 1: surprised Pikachu face
Look, Sarek, for the good of the Federation: no more kids.
LOL I had forgotten about Burnham starting the first war. Poor Sarek. He had a stepchild, Michael, start a war, and a son, Sybok, steal a ship.
@@joannaingram5400 WRONG! Michael did NOT start that war, the Klingons were already going to war, and if anything, Michael just first the first shot.
I almost wish at the end the episode, that they had a scene with Pike coming back with no1, saying he's glad to have his crew back together, only to find his entire senior crew under arrezt
The emotion given by these actors are among the best I've ever seen on TV or film.
You know, I now watch every new episode of any Trek thinking to myself, "I wonder what Seán will say about this? I wonder what Seán will think of that? Wow! Seán is going to flip over this! I can't wait to see what Seán thinks of that." etc. BIG UP, lad!
The quick little scene where Uhura was defending her new station definitely got an up from me after her early struggles with Starfleet from Season 1. Also, the little quip about her rank up while La'an was gone was a little up for me as well. :)
Glad that “ups & downs” is back. I look forward to it as much as the new episodes. Great work Seán & trek culture team
I don't know if you've noticed, but the Strange New Worlds opening credits have scenes pulled directly from the cover art of James Blish's Trek book adaptations, which is awesome.
Sean mentioned the blood wine mugs. Is there anyone else out there that recognizes them as 1 qt measuring cups in commercial kitchens?
Reminded me of our old camping gear mugs.
I have a replica of that mug. It says "Shut up and drink" in Klingonese etched in the side of it.
You can buy them from about any restaurant supply. They come in gallon and pint sizes as well. The one Star Trek uses is a liquid measuring cup with the rim. There is a rimless version for dry ingredients.
YES!! I've been saying that for years!! 😂
Regarding Urura and the throwback to the movies, I felt like in this is made more sense. First of all she's obviously much younger and may not speak everything fluidly yet. More importantly she makes a point of saying that it's an obscure dialect. Yet in a short period of time she's already starting to understand it. I thought it showed how brilliant she is.
I really love Uhura here. She rings true and they’re using her skills in really interesting ways. I love it when her talents help the ship. I also love they have nailed her growing quiet confidence.
(In Kelvin verse they made her too savage and cutting. That’s not Uhura but SNW has reigned that in nicely)
Maybe I missed this but did you even mention Erica Ortegas said peddle to medel. Which was a reference to Tim Allen's galaxy quest. I laughed so hard when she said it.
That's an up from me.👍😎
Agreed. That seemed worthy of at least a mention. It seemed to clearly be a reference.
so happy my thursdays are back to normal. New Star Trek in the Morning and some ups and down in the evening. such a great day.
2 Missed scenes I thought would have been mentioned, 1. When M'Benga gave the side eyes to the Klingon the guy broke in 2 seconds giving up the intel, It that wasn't the most Bad A moment for a fight scene in Trek history. 2. When M'Benga and Chapel are about to go out the air lock I swear they were going to kiss.
M'Benga should have pulled a Tribble out of his pocket to get such the Klingon to talk so fast...
Yeah I don't think Klingons are supposed to be that weak. There should've been a better explanation for why he submitted so quickly.
@Krash Megiddo it was lol that Look M'Benga gave him 😆 🤣. That was a BatMan Look moment, no words, no nothing just an answer.
The Crossfield Class design featured in this episode is a callback to a class similar in design from Star Trek Legacy via Enterprise Era. It was a mission that the NX01 was assigned to find the ship while searching for the Villain Vulcan scientist.
Im still sad Hemmer is gone, I hope more Aenar characters will appear
He was my favorite character of last season 😢.
@@rickshaw0513 mine too
Yup, fridging the only genuinely disabled actor/character was... pretty gross and upsetting.
It's appalling that showrunners think they are suuuuuch "heroes" for a miniscule bit of "inclusion" - and then immediate exploitative disposal of a disabled character.
They can't possibly be genuinely respectful and inclusive... that's just far too much to ask.
There's been so many hints he's going to return, I'm sure it will turn out he is frozen on that planet where they left him and something awful will happen to him before our eyes with the Gorn. We never actually saw him die...
@@kpl-CA Right, Star Trek has never had a blind guy before. Not for 7 whole years, or anything.
So, what? You expect every disabled character in any media to live forever?
My Covid recovery made even more pleasant and my Friday complete, Welcome back SNW and welcome back ups and downs. Thank you Captain Sean.
I thought April saying that next time Spock does something along those lines he would get in trouble was a clear nod to the future event that happened in the Menagerie. Also, Carol Kane's character, chief engineer Pelia, no mention of her race and implications? I had to look it up because I didn't know if I was missing something, but it's not a callback, it's something new, and the whole living among humans undetected until the 22nd century is kind of a big deal not to mention.
I wondered about the Lanthanides(?) also. I thought they might be from Lower Decks or Prodigy, the only Trek shows I haven't watched (because the cartoon pacing and noise level make me nervous). Or that maybe her race was mentioned in some long ago episode I don't remember. There's well over 500 episodes after all. I'm glad you did the leg work for us. I won't worry about looking them up.
I mean, I dunno, how often do they mention the El Aurians did the same until it was brought up by Guinan? Or how often in our regular conversation about the Roman Empire or Medieval Europen do we mention that there were immigrants from Asia living there?
I can't believe you didn't mention the transporter effect when Nurse Chapel is being transported in. I was super impressed with that.
The saddle is also a deep cut to TNG when Picard has a saddle and states that every avid horseback rider has their own saddle with them at all times. Starship Mine S5E18.
Welcome back Sean, good to see your enthusiasm and positivity again!
Keep up the great work to all at Trek culture!! 🖖🏽
Loving Ethan Peck….wow…he was incredible in this episode. Can’t wait for more. And the Nichelle tribute….tears. I’m soooo excited for Season 2 now!
Of all the episodes of Star Trek I've ever watched, I think this season premier was definitely one of them.
With regard to the Crossfield class ship, your theory of it being a cobbled-together vessel is certainly viable. I'm wondering though it that may actually have been the original design for the Crossfield class, with upgrades to USS Discovery and USS Glenn to accommodate the development and testing of the spore drive? Anyways, that's just my theory, for whatever it's worth.
I wasn't sure Carol Kane would fit in, but I'm already loving her! Been a fan since I saw her in "Scrooged", and whenever she popped up in whatever I was watching. I can't wait to see how she works out in future episodes.
And Sean, I have to say that the tribute to Nichelle Nichols, for me, would certainly have rated a dilithium Up.
I don't think the outer design of a regular Crossfield would look any different from the Spore Crossfield aside from the lack spinning saucer. The Spore Drive was supposed to be top secret, if the Discovery and the Glenn look different from other regular Crossfield class, then they would look very suspicious. It would make more sense if all Crossfield look the same so the Discovery and Glenn can hide in plain sight.
@@ArchOfWinter the spore drive is house in the secondary hull that is also where all the spore labs where. i can fully see them just replacing the secondary hull for that and would explain why it is so boxy on the discovery and glenn. it was literally just for the experimental tech
@@JunkGaragehome Take the following with a grain of salt, I can't remember whether I saw this in the show, maybe Saru, or some behind the scene thing. During the early season of the Discovery, someone said the Crossfield class is so unusually big because it is a science work horse that can house multiple labs at once and can be swapped out for other projects. The Spore Drive project chose the Crossfield specially because of how large the secondary hull was.
Loved Pelia, just the quirky weirdness was wonderful. SNW has quickly become my new favourite Trek series, it just gets that mix of fun, drama science fiction together so well.
I love these vids. Sean definitely said what I was thinking about the stealing the enterprise plot being convenient. Also, Pelia is going to be an interesting character almost a bit of River Song vibes there.
Being I chef I love the Klingon mugs, knowing they are just metal measuring cups. I used to have a gallon one when I worked in a banquet center
Just a quick observation here, but...
TOS Gorn: That thing is goofy.
Enterprise Gorn: Did they purposefully make it look that campy on purpose? 😂
Lower Decks Gorn: Ok, this is just getting rediculous.
SNW Gorn: WHEN THE #@$% DID THE XENOMORPHS GET SPACE TRAVEL!?!?!?😱
Strange New Worlds Gorn are single handedly the most terrifying species in Star Trek currently. Even more than that, they are the terrifying that the Borg were supposed to be. I'm looking forward to how this all turns out.
Your little quiff has a live of its own Sean, love it and the work you do. ❤
Spock stealing the Enterprise, for me tied more into when he stole the Enterprise in the TOS episode Managerie, and Star Fleet did court marshal him, plus Uhura's promotion and dedication to her station and duty. In all the episode was a lot of fun and kept the pace going between action and humor. No Star Trek episode is finished until we see Sean with the ups and downs.. Take off the down for stealing the Enterprise, this I do feel was vital to show the length Spock is willing to go out of loyalty to his crew
Thanks Sean & company! I look forward to Ups & Downs almost as much as the episodes themselves! Great job!
My theory about the Crossfield class is maybe it was a name applied to a new design that Starfleet introduced to sort of help in the coverup of the Discovery incident. So they renamed this new in-development class the Crossfield to take attention away from the real class and they sort of just sneakily change all references or documents to include this class instead of the “original”.
It seems like way too intentional of a name drop to be a dumb mistake. There has to be some lore reason why the writers went with that.
Much like the Enterprise-D, maybe they just reused the saucer section with a different drive section since only the other two had spore drive feature needs.
They don't need to. There probably were other general purpose Crossfield science vessels at the time, only the Discovery and Glenn had the Spore Drive. Some coverup like this would probably draw more attention than retiring old ship designs.
Or it's just such a mythical class that officers don't even know what it really looks like. It just sounded like Mitchell was generally unsure.
@@ArchOfWinter I'd think it was more of the general version of the ships of the class compared to the prototype refits with the test drive of the Discovery and Glenn
I did wonder about this class too. It had the Discovery style saucer, but the nacelles were the more “modern” Constitution style with the red rounded tips. So I figure this is a more contemporary refit of that class that fits the SNW era.
I love, love, love Carol Kane. I'm looking forward to seeing her in future episodes.
If you think it's a down that Spock isn't facing a court martial for stealing the Enterprise, then before James T. Kirk shows again someone is going to have to explain to me how he cheated on his final and got a commendation rather than a dishonourable discharge after being expelled from Starfleet Academy.
Errrr. Because what Kirk did won't lead to an Interstellar incident ?
I always thought it was missed opportunity in Q2 when Q was caught modifying the holo program to pass the diplomacy test there was no mention of Kirk and what he did at the Academy. I mean Q was there to listen to Ichebs Kirk presentation so he should know.
Strange New Worlds, loooove this show
Chapel planning to go off to study "archeological medicine" could be a nod to TOS S1E7 "What are little girls made of".
And a good way to nip any romance between Chapel and Spock woul be when she meets Roger Korby. Smart move by the writers.
I loved the tumbling choas of their beaming back to the enterprise transporter pad
All great observations, Sean. For me, all the Downs were canceled out by the addition of Carol Kane. Loved here since here days as Simka om "Taxi".
I've read some so-so reviews of this episode, but I loved it. I loved that Pelia helped steal the ship, I was genuinely interested in the mystery, and I loved how it wrapped up with Spock drinking blood wine because it was the logical thing to do
What a GREAT season premier. It wasn’t overly flashy or dramatic but it not only brought back the REAL Klingons, but set up the tone for the season. I’m not quite sure if I’m going to absolutely LOVE the new chief of engineering or hate her. Reason being is she looked and sounded drunk the entire time. Other than that the acting from everyone was just… muah! “I want the ship to go fast…. NOW!”
Isn't she the actress who played the Mom in License to Drive?
@@daenerystargaryen6302 I'll always think of her as Simka fron Taxi
@@josephwhite4489she's also Valerie, Miracle Max's wife, in The Princess Bride.
@@susanscott8653 ah yes, I forgot, perhaps one of her most beloved performances...The Princess Bride is a forever classic
Your unending enthusiasm is truly amazing.
That you were able to find so much to get excited about in what was, frankly, not a very good episode, is incredible.
100M casualties of war doesn't seem like an unusual number for the type of high tech weapons available. Annihilating only 5-10 big cities today would get you that number.
100M on both sides? Maybe?
I believe the estimate of total deaths during WWII was between 70-85 million. That’s just one planet. 100 million seems pretty believable.
When the Discovery returned from the mirror universe, they were briefed that the Klingons had occupied around 20% of Federation space inside of nine months. They were unable to prevent an attack on Starbase One that resulted in 80,000 casualties and the destruction of three starships with all hands onboard. Considering Klingons aren't big on taking prisoners, it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that a hundred million deaths could easily be racked up by targeting smaller colonies and worlds as well as shipping. And considering how Discovery ended the war, it also makes sense that happened with minor territorial concessions.
you don't even have to resort to the type of weaponry. It's just a scaling issue. What's the population of the entire Federation? the earth population by then has to be >10 BILLION. 100M is 1% of that population.
Compare that to World War 2, where about 3% of population of the planet died. By the way, 100M is LESS THAN HALF the number of people who died in WW2.
Btw according to star trek: charts the population of the federation is nearly 1 trillion individuals.
The fact they stuck the renegade crossfield class ship upside down at the starbase and hoped no-one would notice, combined with how Sean thought it was an NX at first...
Reminds me of how when Enterprise was being created, and the producers wanted to use the 24th century Akira class flipped upside down and assumed no-one would notice.
I kind of wonder if the Enterprise references might also be a hint at the solution to things with Una...because Archer's piracy went unresolved there and might be a very good reason for issues to be handled. Especially with the dead/ascended Illyrian colony from last season as well.
Plus if they're Illyrian, then the argument could easily be made for them not being under the augment ban...after all there are a few other species that have augmented themselves such as the Denobulans that are Federation members
I went through Trek Culture withdrawal after the end of Picard. Love doing my weekly routine of watching the episode and comparing notes. I love learning about things that I missed especially during Cetacean Observations! 🍻 to hopefully an awesome season!
There is one thing that bugs me in the scene where the Enterprise is chasing the false flag ship, and that is if they are already concealed and the point is to hide both ships from the Klingons, why didn't they just target the ships engines and render them immobile while still hidden? I mean, "Target their engines" and "Target their weapons" are probably two of the most spoken lines in any Star Trek space combat scene, so it's just weird that they didn't even try do it (and the scene could still play out he same way, just get a throwaway line that the engines are unstable and would destroy the ship or have them target the engines but they are only able to penetrate the shield once the ship is already detected)
We really are lucky to be living in this age of Trek where people have so many options to watch that even if they don't enjoy one series there is another for them to watch. I just love all of it, but definitely have my personal favorites.
IMO, the dedication to Nichelle at the end deserved this week's Latium up.. I'm pretty sure there was not a single dry eye when that came on the screen.
I was dying with Carol Jane's accent being so close to her Simka accent from Taxi.
I was totally expecting them to reveal that the cartel was led by the Ferengi. It's something they would def do, and they almost quote the 34th rule of acquisition, war is good for business. Also, if i had a nickle everytime they stole an Enterprise from spacedock, I'd have 3 nickles. Which isn't a lot, but weird it happened three times.
Well, since the federation hadn’t met the ferengi until TNG S1: The Last Outpost, that would break all kinds of canon. Doesn’t mean the ferengi aren’t pulling the strings from afar, though….
@All things nerd. Maybe. However not technically correct, as Archer and crew first meet them in Ent S1:19 "Acquisition". While the federation technically doesn't encounter them until Last Outpost, I'd think they had some files about what happened in the database in case they are encountered again.
Love the new shots in the title sequence this season!
Pretty sure stealing the Enterprise was not causing a big stink is for the reasons mentioned in the final scene. There's a lot more going on right now that most don't know about and obviously Enterprise and her best will play a big role in it. Would be pretty stupid to disrupt that over an incident that ended up working in their favor. Don't forget, every other time the Enterprise has been stolen in both TOS and Next Gen it ended up much ado about nothing when all was said and done.
The La'an drinking competition seemed very much a tribute to Marion Ravenwood in "Raiders of the Lost Ark."