I love subverting tropes. So far I have a "strong female warrior" who doesn't want to be a fighter and constantly has to put up against people's expectations of her for being a woman with a sword (however, she keeps fighting because she wants to achieve a certain goal and cant do otherwise if not in the king's army), and a "wise mentor" whose retired, hates himself, won't mentor anyone, and is actually kind of crazy.
I am reminded of anime series such as Rune Soldier, KonoSuba and Monthly Girl's Nozaki-kun. Rune Soldier focuses on fantasy "buff hero" trope, KonoSuba mocks the isekai genre along with some of the characterisation of party members; and Monthly Girl's Nozaki-kun pokes fun at the Shoujo romance genre. Whilst subversion of tropes doesn't always mock them, it is sometimes the inevitable outcome of doing so. You just have to be careful to make sure that the comedic elements do not fall flat. In the case of the above series, it also assumes that the audience understands what is being subverted. As such, know both the tropes being subverted (as Shaelin suggests) and the audience.
Subverting tropes is fine, but I prefer to toy around with them in whatever way I feel is necessary for the story (play straight, exaggerate, invert, deconstruct, reconstruct, play for laughs, play for drama, play for horror, parody, defy, downplay, or even avert/not even use). That's probably the only good thing I can say about that website TVTropes: it kinda inspired me to play around with story elements.
I agree. There's nothing new under the sun, and stories have been told since we could speak. It's not about coming up with something never done but executing your story very well.
One movie that completely subverts the trope of the wild west gunfighter is "Unforgiven". The viewer in this movie doesn't get the good feeling that a bad guy is getting what he deserves in the killings in this movie. The scenes are harrowing when a "bad guy" dies, and it is not really clear at the end who the bad guy really is. Gene Hackman, as Sheriff "Litttle" Bill Dagget, makes an interest comment about gunfighters in this movie. He says, "They ain't got no character. Not even bad character." This is a very violent movie, but it is de-romanticized violence. If you get queasy about violence you won't like it.
What I like to do is I grab a random Idea, and mix it with another. For example I grab Jurassic Park and think "What about a Jurassic Park in the world of Harry Potter"? Boom. Park with Fantastic Beasts that break loose
@@Reedsy It can be. It can also feel very copied or obvious. My example was a weak one. Its tough to make it not that obvious but if you tweak things the right way, you can get great inspiration that way.
Thanks for posting, as always. I'm constantly thinking about not revisiting cliches, favorite trope? Probably the wise wizard. I like the idea of flipping tropes around.
One way I’ve subverted a trope was with the five-man band trope where instead of five (sometimes six) people as main characters, I combined it with just three individuals. I did this with my story titled “The Road Ranger.” Here are the characters: Matt Santos (Hero + Big Guy): Also known as The Road Ranger (the story is about him), Matt had just recently finished his six years of military service in the Army Rangers. However he traded one war for another after his mother was assassinated and the police do nothing for his dilemma despite the efforts of a sympathetic federal law agent. Using his experience in battles, Matt decides to wage a one-man war on heinous murderers though what he does not know is someone close to him was the catalyst of his mother’s demise. Maria Garcia (Lancer + Heart): Although she is first seen as a sort-of love interest for Matt Santos, Maria becomes a partner-in-combat for him over time throughout the story. Upon witnessing the tragic murder of Matt’s mother and offering a shoulder to cry on, she tries to push Matt’s case forward though the idea is immediately shot down. She briefly becomes an antagonist for Matt Santos once she catches on to his vigilante acts however soon becomes disillusioned with her line of work once she finds out the truth of why the police refuse to look into a tragic murder case. Despite her heel-face turn, Maria does not necessarily agree with Matt’s methods of retributive justice. Miz (Smart Guy + Sixth Ranger): Miz makes a brief first appearance working with Maria despite his young age (he’s actually only 14 years old). However when he meets Matt through Maria about 3/4 through the story, Miz takes a much more active role alongside them. Although Matt is an experienced soldier and Maria is a skilled policewoman, Miz is adept with electronics such as computers, radios, among other things. He is also eccentric to where he is constantly curious about things to the point where he would devote hours of the day just to figure out how something works. I’ve also toyed with the idea of increasing the ensemble with more characters to join their team. Although this story of mine is a post-apocalypse (sub genre of science fiction), I’ve thought about implementing another group of three from a fantasy realm to join them in their future adventures. Like imagine a story that showcases both guns and magic spells thrown around. Maybe some archery too for good measure.
Hi there, I was wondering if you have a simple definition of "subvert" that you use for storytelling. I think I sort of understand it but I can't find a simple definition that fits right for me. There are a bunch that say to flip something on it's head, or to undermine especially with expectations or genre, these all seek to convey the idea of surprising the reader or audience by giving them the opposite of what is expected from trope, genre or convention. Is there a definition you use personally? Thanks.
If I write about a character with prior tropes, I address them in the first few pages of the story or screenplay. I do this with the life of Cleopatra. Our world history demands that her tropes be subverted, meaning they were written by OLD ROMAN MEN who sought to oppress ALL women.
I love subverting tropes. So far I have a "strong female warrior" who doesn't want to be a fighter and constantly has to put up against people's expectations of her for being a woman with a sword (however, she keeps fighting because she wants to achieve a certain goal and cant do otherwise if not in the king's army), and a "wise mentor" whose retired, hates himself, won't mentor anyone, and is actually kind of crazy.
That last one sounds a little bit like Phil from Hercules jk
Thank you so much for this!! Kind of creepy cause I was wondering about this yesterday and now there's a video on it, but I'm not complaining either!!
I liked the grey area part since sometimes the complete opposite just won't cut it.
I am reminded of anime series such as Rune Soldier, KonoSuba and Monthly Girl's Nozaki-kun. Rune Soldier focuses on fantasy "buff hero" trope, KonoSuba mocks the isekai genre along with some of the characterisation of party members; and Monthly Girl's Nozaki-kun pokes fun at the Shoujo romance genre. Whilst subversion of tropes doesn't always mock them, it is sometimes the inevitable outcome of doing so. You just have to be careful to make sure that the comedic elements do not fall flat. In the case of the above series, it also assumes that the audience understands what is being subverted. As such, know both the tropes being subverted (as Shaelin suggests) and the audience.
My favorite trope is Friends/close allies coming together to defeat a villain they've known for a long time.
I really like the idea of subverting tropes. I have an idea for one I may write next!
Subverting tropes is fine, but I prefer to toy around with them in whatever way I feel is necessary for the story (play straight, exaggerate, invert, deconstruct, reconstruct, play for laughs, play for drama, play for horror, parody, defy, downplay, or even avert/not even use). That's probably the only good thing I can say about that website TVTropes: it kinda inspired me to play around with story elements.
Even if something is a trope a book might be written so well that the trope doesn't stick out or does not matter as much.
Very true :)
I agree. There's nothing new under the sun, and stories have been told since we could speak. It's not about coming up with something never done but executing your story very well.
One movie that completely subverts the trope of the wild west gunfighter is "Unforgiven". The viewer in this movie doesn't get the good feeling that a bad guy is getting what he deserves in the killings in this movie. The scenes are harrowing when a "bad guy" dies, and it is not really clear at the end who the bad guy really is. Gene Hackman, as Sheriff "Litttle" Bill Dagget, makes an interest comment about gunfighters in this movie. He says, "They ain't got no character. Not even bad character." This is a very violent movie, but it is de-romanticized violence. If you get queasy about violence you won't like it.
Not sure if this is a trope, but I love the "long lost magic," where it's just in folk tales etc. but then the MC rediscovers it.
What I like to do is I grab a random Idea, and mix it with another. For example I grab Jurassic Park and think "What about a Jurassic Park in the world of Harry Potter"?
Boom. Park with Fantastic Beasts that break loose
That's a great technique!
@@Reedsy It can be. It can also feel very copied or obvious. My example was a weak one. Its tough to make it not that obvious but if you tweak things the right way, you can get great inspiration that way.
Thanks for posting, as always. I'm constantly thinking about not revisiting cliches, favorite trope? Probably the wise wizard. I like the idea of flipping tropes around.
One way I’ve subverted a trope was with the five-man band trope where instead of five (sometimes six) people as main characters, I combined it with just three individuals. I did this with my story titled “The Road Ranger.” Here are the characters:
Matt Santos (Hero + Big Guy):
Also known as The Road Ranger (the story is about him), Matt had just recently finished his six years of military service in the Army Rangers. However he traded one war for another after his mother was assassinated and the police do nothing for his dilemma despite the efforts of a sympathetic federal law agent. Using his experience in battles, Matt decides to wage a one-man war on heinous murderers though what he does not know is someone close to him was the catalyst of his mother’s demise.
Maria Garcia (Lancer + Heart):
Although she is first seen as a sort-of love interest for Matt Santos, Maria becomes a partner-in-combat for him over time throughout the story. Upon witnessing the tragic murder of Matt’s mother and offering a shoulder to cry on, she tries to push Matt’s case forward though the idea is immediately shot down. She briefly becomes an antagonist for Matt Santos once she catches on to his vigilante acts however soon becomes disillusioned with her line of work once she finds out the truth of why the police refuse to look into a tragic murder case. Despite her heel-face turn, Maria does not necessarily agree with Matt’s methods of retributive justice.
Miz (Smart Guy + Sixth Ranger):
Miz makes a brief first appearance working with Maria despite his young age (he’s actually only 14 years old). However when he meets Matt through Maria about 3/4 through the story, Miz takes a much more active role alongside them. Although Matt is an experienced soldier and Maria is a skilled policewoman, Miz is adept with electronics such as computers, radios, among other things. He is also eccentric to where he is constantly curious about things to the point where he would devote hours of the day just to figure out how something works.
I’ve also toyed with the idea of increasing the ensemble with more characters to join their team. Although this story of mine is a post-apocalypse (sub genre of science fiction), I’ve thought about implementing another group of three from a fantasy realm to join them in their future adventures. Like imagine a story that showcases both guns and magic spells thrown around. Maybe some archery too for good measure.
I really was hoping for examples, plural.
You're perfect.
Hi there, I was wondering if you have a simple definition of "subvert" that you use for storytelling. I think I sort of understand it but I can't find a simple definition that fits right for me. There are a bunch that say to flip something on it's head, or to undermine especially with expectations or genre, these all seek to convey the idea of surprising the reader or audience by giving them the opposite of what is expected from trope, genre or convention. Is there a definition you use personally? Thanks.
thank you!!
Might "The Bird Man of Alcatraz" be a trope?
If I write about a character with prior tropes, I address them in the first few pages of the story or screenplay. I do this with the life of Cleopatra. Our world history demands that her tropes be subverted, meaning they were written by OLD ROMAN MEN who sought to oppress ALL women.
Yes, because your username and ideology is really original.
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