@@RuksharaMandava-sf1qx no, suffering is from the "he will burn your house and throne" part, when Ody and Zeus are singing together and the others is the start of Zeus part, it start in "a mission". Its not the same motif.
Other writers: I have had many plot ideas that I didn’t include, but still make sense and might have been better received then the final product. Jorge: I have ideas that don’t make sense in any way.
No really a lot of writing is coming up with ideas then having to backtrack to understand how they would fit in the story. I do the same thing with my stories. It doesn’t matter that the idea is objectively insane, an idea is an idea and if it’s cool it might fit in, somehow.
Mr. jalapeño!!! today in class, the teacher made us compare the Odyssey to your musical, and we got to listen to the whole thunder saga and compare to the Odyssey that we’re reading!
This is pretty clearly an artifact of when Eurylochus (and the crew) served as the show's primary villain. It's a good cut given the character Eurylochus is now.
@@hazycrab3it's one of those things that the entire story would have to be rewritten around, because he portrays himself as a person who doesn't want to lead. Hell, in luck runs out he's straight up doubting Odysseus. But not in a way where he would want his power. Still as I said these ideas could work you just would have to restructure the story and characters a certain way.
@@hazycrab3 see the problem with that is that the mutiny happened because Eury thought ody was out of control (don’t completely blame him). The problem is at that point in the story, the only peril they had faced was through the cyclops. Eury still believes in Ody’s wit and leadership. That’s what I mean lol
@@EdjNovastaryeah, and also in the song (Ithaca Saga) Hold Them Down, the line “I heard he’s on a diplomatic mission” is Antinous talking about when he went Menelaus? (I believe it’s Hold Them Down, please correct me if I’m wrong)
... Ody went full "RAWR RAWR, Fight The Power!" and proved to us that yes, even a partially devine ancestry allows you to be [ That Guy ] who has the power of God and Animé on his side! >)X^D
But the prophecy was that the infant would grow up and seek revenge if Odysseus _didn't_ kill him right there. Since he did kill him, it would be pretty wildly unfair for that to still happen ANYWAY xP
People don't really grow like that in Hades Of course, souls don't escape either outside of very specific circumstances so I think the actual myths were thrown out there
@@elsie8757 yeah that’s why it only kind of fulfills the prophecy since it was fulfilled once Odysseus killed the infant but it’s still interesting to think about
@@ShabnaFarooque I'm sorry but imagining an infant raising his arms Elmo style to summon a bunch of undead soldiers is the funniest thing I've imagined all day 😂 Thank you for this vision
The Eury and Poseidon scraped plot point is such a cool idea, and that explains that clip of the demo of luck runs out when someone who isnt ody enters frame after he has left for the island! Its also really cool that Poseidon would use the same melody Zeus used to talk to Ody in The Horse and The Infant!
Poseidon convincing Eurylochus to open the windbag / Eurylochus being tempted to be king for no reason would take away so much of the nuance of these characters and I'm very glad it was cut.
Horse and the infant 2.0. I imagine a horse coming up to Eury and whisper him thoughts of deceit and betrayal and at first he’s like wtf but then he starts to like what he hears and with the rising conflict between Ody and him.. my gods, the idea is incredibly good! Very intriguing.
The way I started screaming during the Poseidon/Eury segment. I love the concept, but I wouldn't want to replace anything we've already seen. Keep up the great work, Jorge
I’m actually glad the plot line with Eurylochus and Poseidon got scrapped more for Eurylochus’ character arc. He was a man about survival, from his first line he’s talking about how they’re all going to eat and be fed for the rest of the trip. The saddest thing about Eurylochus is that he JUST wanted to live. That he didn’t trust Odysseus would get them to safety. The added power struggle would have muddied the water XD
OH MY GOODNESS MORE OF JORGE’S RAMBLING, this is so interesting! I always wondered why We’ll Be Fine was changed, and all the other changes were so interesting too! Wow, but it makes sense within the story of Epic why you kept what you kept and scrapped what you scrapped.
Ody and Athena vs Eurylochus and Posiedon would be SO COOL!! That being said, I think Epic is exactly the way it needs to be, but it is really cool to hear about alternate plotlines!
That scrapped part with Poseidon and Eury was so sick!! The repeating letimotifs, the lyrics, and offering Eury the chance to be *king* is wild, especially considering the final direction of that arc where Eury betrays Ody of his own accord. I’d love a part 2 of this! Maybe elaborating on your early drafts where the crew members had bigger roles in the story and were explored in more depth, and if you wrote any lyrics to go with Hades’ appearance in God Games and what his argument was
OMG, the connection between Eurylochus and Poseidon took me by surprise, I feel like it's something that could have been very interesting if it had happened, IT'S TIME TO MAKE COMICS MUEJEJE
This is like an author going back and looking at all the brainstorming and ideas for their book. I know this bc I am a writer and this video is wildly relatable 😂
1:13 honestly i feel like that would be such a good lyric in ruthlessness where he goes to eurylochus like "you know who i am" then the realisation sets in, maybe use the music from suffering when the siren tells ody he has to go through scylla. that would've been really cool imo 😭😭
Thank you for FINALLY disclosing the original ending in Luck Runs Out! It’s been keeping me up at night trying to come up with theories on who the mysterious person is. I can finally rest 😅
You know, as a writer, it’s absurdly refreshing hearing stuff like this. So many cool ideas and directions a story can go but ultimately doesn’t for one reason or another. I love seeing these first draft type of things.
As a writer I find it very neat to hear about other's scrapped plans/revisions for their stories. I too have planned out some absolutely wild stuff that I then removed/change later down the line and every so often I look back on those plans and wonder what on earth was I thinking.
Reminder for anyone who sees this that Jay has mentioned that older versions of EPIC had a rap battle between Athena and Aphrodite. Do what you will with this.
That scrapped part with Poseidon and Eurylochus is really similar to the Horse and the Infant, with Zeus and Odysseus: “A vision, of what is to come, cannot be outrun, can only be dealt with right here and now. Show me how I don’t think you’re ready”
The Zeus on THATI motif when Poseidon appears is just perfect, and the offering scene is great, but as you said, it would really only leave into a deadend
AHH! The melody in Mutiny being from the scrapped song is SO AWESOME!! Both show the conflict Eurylochus has between being loyal to Odysseus and over throwing him! Incredible! 😭🤩
OOOHHHHHHH, I remember seeing that old version of Luck Runs Out! Lol, it makes way more sense now, I remember being confused as hell when I first saw the end with your 🧿🧿 making an appearance! 😂
I'm not sure if you've talked about this before and I just haven't seen it yet but in the beginning of "Remember Them", the tune to "We're up we're off and away we go" from "Full Speed Ahead" plays faintly in the background. That's supposed to show a connection right? I also noticed that in the beginning of "Luck Runs out" and "Mutiny" There's the same tune. On piano in "Luck Runs out" and on some sort of strings (I'm not great with string instruments) in "Mutiny" And the beginning of "Mutiny" sounds a bit like Circe's riff too! I know this is a lot but it's just SO COOL! Love your work by the way! Me and my friend really want to make our own musical now!
I actually LOVE Eurylochus, he's my favorite character in Epic, so all these concepts do sound absolutely amazing to me. Especially Poseidon mirroring Zeus' in the Horse in and the Infant, choosing Eurylochus as his champion, whilst Zeus chose Odysseus as his. And putting it in a way they both could not refuse... especially if it ended with "This is the will of the gods..." BUT ultimately if you had went this route, he wouldn't be the Eurylochus that came to be in Epic, and would no longer be my favorite character. And all the changes you made were for the better. ..... Still really cool to think about though. Fanfiction time~
I know you probably wont see this, but thank you. You helped me out of a hard time in my life. Your videos, you music. They helped me so much. I wouldn't be here if not for it. Thank you so much Jorge.
How I love hearing the different paths EPIC could've taken; It's so interesting to hear your thought processes!! :) Also side note, I absolutely love that scrapped section of Luck Runs Out, however I absolutely understand why it /was/ scrapped
Poseidon’s role in Epic is perfect. He serves as THE power you don’t want to mess with. If he first introduces himself by requesting help from a mortal, it would reduce his perceived power and make him less imposing and threatening.
4:00 Wait I kinda love that idea tho cuz even if you didn't show Eury's decision like Ody's choice to either kill or not kill the infant it's subtly foreshadowing of what he would eventually come to do not only with the wind bag but also Mutiny, slightly. Although I get why you didn't, Ruthlessness was definitely the right time to reveal Poseidon but that scrapped version is definitely interesting!
Jorge is so talented, not only can he craft such beautiful and meaningful songs but he uses the medium to tell such an amazing story and he's just so good at it. Also as a writer it's so cool to hear the process of how other writers came up with their stories and all the different ways it could have gone
I’m not gonna lie. It makes sense why you didn’t include Poseidon in Luck Runs Out but after hearing you sing it there’s a part of me that really wishes you found a way.
The Eurylochus and Poseiden plotline you had going on seemed really cool! Shame it got scraped out, but I see the reasoning for it and I'm happier with how things ended up being anyways! Also a Odysseus (+Athena) vs a Eurylochus (+Poseiden) battle seems so cool! Might have to draw it honestly 😉
That Eury/Posaidon interaction sounds so fun! And another instance of the survival Motif? Amazing. Honestly, I think I'd like it if it had stayed in, especially if that would be where the song ended with no further explanation, but I get why you wanted to cut it! It would probably make people know right off the bat that he was the one who opened the bag and the Scylla reveal would be worse, but it would give the audience a lot of anxiety every time something's up with Eurylochus (they'd be wondering if he took that offer)
I love hearing about the process. I struggle a lot with perfectionism and part of it was because I hardly ever saw the process behind my favorite art and only ever saw the final product. Having you share the "ugly" bits of early story development puts me at ease 😊
I honestly love all of these abd would love to see the Cut Saga for all the old songs, it's so good to see all your old ideas and know that you put a lot of struggle to give us the best musical
I love these glimpses into your mind and all the stuff that could've happened, but was ultimately changed/scrapped. Also Poseidon's lines in draft Luck Runs Out are lowkey-highkey sick, I want them. Thank you for sharing this and other inside-the-thought-process-of-Jorge videos! ❤ (Well. All the videos, honestly, whether they're silly goofy or heartfelt or snippets of songs or informative or anywhere between. Thank you!)
I really like the Eurylochus/Poseidon segment, it's interesting to think about how things would have unfolded if it went that way... but I have to say the current canon has more impact than the former version could ever have imo. Eurylochus being purely motivated by the crew's survival rather than having any ambition to overthrow Odysseus and "becoming king" gives his character more depth than if he was a classical antagonist. Instead of him being another enemy to overcome, Ody and him read as friends who, despite all the affection and the struggles they went through side by side, are at this point in time so fundamentally different in their mindset, morals and goals that they can only grow apart. No matter what they do, the dam was meant to break, but not for lack of love or loyalty. That makes their mutual consecutive betrayals even more heartbreaking and bittersweet in a way the initial draft could never do. It adds a bit of that tasty greek tragedy spice, in a nutshell, the dreaded yet inevitable fate of a doomed friendship 🫠 Not to mention how the reveal of Eurylochus being the one who opened the wind bag wouldn't have felt as much like a punch in the stomach as it does now, right before Scylla's slaughter.
Ok but the idea of seeing Poseidon before knowing who or what he is and Eury realizing just who exactly it was and what he's done with the "OOOODYSSEUS OF ITHACA!!! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?" could have been really cool, the only problem is the whole "open this bag that none of us know about yet" lol Still, the introduction we got was REALLY cool, and Eury's betrayal coming from his own paranoid distrust rather than a god's orders or suggestions is better character-wise imho
it'll never happen but would love to have a "bloopers play list", after the whole musical is done, that's just full of the cut songs/ cut versions of songs
I really like the parrallel between Eurylochus and Poseidon and Zeus and Odysseus. To me it kinda feels like the Gods are playing a game/making bets with the lives of Ody and his crew.
I will also say you did an excellent job cutting the plots that didn’t work or wouldn’t work. The final product is astounding, amazing and very well streamlined. 👍🏻 As a writer it’s always such a comfort to hear about scrapped narrative ideas from another creative mind.
Poseidon telling Eurylochus to open a bag he has never heard about is so funny
“Open the bag”
“What bag?”
“….Remember me…”
@@hannarose96 “WHAT BAG?!”
@@Starry_Cosmic "YOU'LL KNOW THE BAG!"
GET THAT BAG EURY
@@hannarose96I picture Poseidon just leaning up against the ship and then ominously sinking back down into the water 😂
"ODDYSEUS OF ITHICA... do you know who i am" was the coolest intro in the world i am so glad that's what we got
ensemble in the background: Po-sei-don Po-sei-don
Ody: Dunno, Hades?
Hey he hasn't slept in 9 days i get it
Ithaca*
@@kaylaHatnah, ody is secretly CFreacts 😂
@@MyNameIsNobody. At this point whole internet is Casper in disguise
Now I could imagine Poseidon and Athena having a Pokémon battle using Odysseus and Eurylochus
They're just throwing random crew members at each other and hoping it works.
u had no business in making me laugh so hard
this is technically a Persona users battle between Odysseus and Eurylochus using Athena and Poseidon
“ODYSSEUS USE TRAUMA!”
*Odysseus of Ithaca uses trauma to remember his fallen friends*
*Attack increased*
@@TheVera800 "Poseidon uses Splash...nothing happens"
Love how Poseidon's melody and rhymes parallels with Zeus from Horse and The İnfant!
AND survive AND start of second half of mutiny
@@doodle_guard And Suffering
@@RuksharaMandava-sf1qx no, suffering is from the "he will burn your house and throne" part, when Ody and Zeus are singing together and the others is the start of Zeus part, it start in "a mission". Its not the same motif.
@@doodle_guardyeah I was about to mention survive
Horse and the infant - Ody
Should Eury's song be called Cow and the Bag?
Other writers: I have had many plot ideas that I didn’t include, but still make sense and might have been better received then the final product.
Jorge: I have ideas that don’t make sense in any way.
I've been there with my own stories even before I write them down
I mean tbh he has both
He’s so real for that though! As a writer myself I look back and think “…why…how…did I even have a brain that day?!”
He’s just like me as a creator fr
No really a lot of writing is coming up with ideas then having to backtrack to understand how they would fit in the story. I do the same thing with my stories. It doesn’t matter that the idea is objectively insane, an idea is an idea and if it’s cool it might fit in, somehow.
Mr. jalapeño!!! today in class, the teacher made us compare the Odyssey to your musical, and we got to listen to the whole thunder saga and compare to the Odyssey that we’re reading!
Yooo, you lucky
@@IsabellaGolinski I know, but everyone was cringing pretty hard during suffering 😭
Classes I would love to be in
@ why ? Because of the moment with “Penelope” and Odysseus
Dude I wish I was in ur English class 😭
4:31 Eurylochus doesn’t seem like the guy who wants to be king lol. Honestly I’m glad these didn’t come to fruition
It's kinda how mutiny plays out. The guitar in the background of the fight is both for Odysseus AND eurylochus as stated by Jorge at some point
He does in this universe, he wants all the power and none of the blame
This is pretty clearly an artifact of when Eurylochus (and the crew) served as the show's primary villain. It's a good cut given the character Eurylochus is now.
@@hazycrab3it's one of those things that the entire story would have to be rewritten around, because he portrays himself as a person who doesn't want to lead. Hell, in luck runs out he's straight up doubting Odysseus. But not in a way where he would want his power.
Still as I said these ideas could work you just would have to restructure the story and characters a certain way.
@@hazycrab3 see the problem with that is that the mutiny happened because Eury thought ody was out of control (don’t completely blame him). The problem is at that point in the story, the only peril they had faced was through the cyclops. Eury still believes in Ody’s wit and leadership. That’s what I mean lol
“I got an a fight and sailed to an island” honestly that would’ve fit perfectly but the changed lyrics is just better
Yea it would have fit! Bc in the actual Odyssey, Telemachus went to go see Menelaus to get help (help as in advice and food lol)
@@EdjNovastaryeah, and also in the song (Ithaca Saga) Hold Them Down, the line “I heard he’s on a diplomatic mission” is Antinous talking about when he went Menelaus? (I believe it’s Hold Them Down, please correct me if I’m wrong)
@@UrFavv_Mike yep, it's hold them down
@@UrFavv_Mikeit's probably gonna happen offscreen ig
@@Autumn-xs1bt yeah I believe it is happening off-screen
3:46 ANIMATORS... YOUR TIME HAS COME!
You rang?
@justanaveragehumanbean YEP!
Someone already made one!
@@Zephirite. ALREADY????
I am genuinely scared of these animators. ITS BEEN FIVE HOURS
Thank you so much to my wonderful Patreon members for suggesting this video!!! :D 🙌🏼💙
❤
Hi how's it going
First!
Hi
patreon members doin the work for us
Poseidon: There you are, COWARD!
Eurylochus: uhhhh......
Wait, is it Poseidon that said that? I thought it was Odysseus.🤔
@@TheHylianDragonGirl It was Poseidon, in Get in the water
Eurylochus: but I’m not the monster(raw raw raw)? I’m just a man 🤷♂️
I love this fandom
Poseidon: you can’t kill me (*different beast music*) wait why do I hear boss music? wait WAIT! ARGHHHH
How does it feel to be helpless? (Argh!)
How does it feel to know pain?
I WATCHED MY FRIENDS DIE IN HORROR.
CRYING AS THEY WERE ALL SLAIN!!
@@FandomHoarder07 CALLING THEIR CAPTAIN IN VAIN
In Six hundred strike, Odysseus took "I AM THE MONSTER RAWR RAWR" to another level
... Ody went full "RAWR RAWR, Fight The Power!" and proved to us that yes, even a partially devine ancestry allows you to be [ That Guy ] who has the power of God and Animé on his side! >)X^D
it’s so cool to think of all of the ways different songs in epic could have gone, like out of all the ways, we got these specific ways, it’s so cool
Ikr
Yeah!!
You could say that there are other ways
@ShingeKniana maybe they could of persuadetipn (I can’t spell long words for the life of me pretend that’s spelled correctly)
Yes!! (And hello there Hazel)
The idea of Poseidon technically manipulated Eury is so good. I hope someone writes an au on it
On a different plot point, Astyanax and the Army of the Dead seems like such a cool idea for a spooky thriller novel that I really want to use it!!
Somewhere on AO3 there's a fic with this AU
The infant getting revenge on Odysseus is actually crazy!!! (And it also kind of fulfills the prophecy that Zeus gave)
But the prophecy was that the infant would grow up and seek revenge if Odysseus _didn't_ kill him right there. Since he did kill him, it would be pretty wildly unfair for that to still happen ANYWAY xP
People don't really grow like that in Hades
Of course, souls don't escape either outside of very specific circumstances so I think the actual myths were thrown out there
Or, hear me out, he didn't grow and he's still a baby in the underworld, summoning legions of the dead lmao
@@elsie8757 yeah that’s why it only kind of fulfills the prophecy since it was fulfilled once Odysseus killed the infant but it’s still interesting to think about
@@ShabnaFarooque I'm sorry but imagining an infant raising his arms Elmo style to summon a bunch of undead soldiers is the funniest thing I've imagined all day 😂
Thank you for this vision
The Eury and Poseidon scraped plot point is such a cool idea, and that explains that clip of the demo of luck runs out when someone who isnt ody enters frame after he has left for the island! Its also really cool that Poseidon would use the same melody Zeus used to talk to Ody in The Horse and The Infant!
Eul + Poseidon vs Athena and Ody is an epic tale we will never hear...
So epic it could be it's own... musical
WHAT THEY TOOK FROM US!!
Poseidon convincing Eurylochus to open the windbag / Eurylochus being tempted to be king for no reason would take away so much of the nuance of these characters and I'm very glad it was cut.
POSEIDON SINGING IN THE HORSE AND THE INFANT ZEUS IS AMAZING
I think the way it went officially is absolutely perfect
BUT I will say the Poseidon singing to Eurylochus did give me chills
It’s so similar to Zeus in The Horse And The Infant like brother like… brother
I will take this as a sign that there will be a cut song saga 🙃
I still need ‘Your Light’ in my playlist - I’m begging 🙏
Please make this happen!!!😫🙏
1:54 we missed out on a Pokemon battle
The questions remains, who are the Pokemon?
@@RiskoPlexusAthena throws out Swellow, Odysseus throws out ceruledge
And then Eurylochus has Machoke and Poseidon with Sharpedo
Haha❤😂
@@ToxoAxoWait but Athena could have a Hoothoot or a Noctowl!
Oh my gosh, that makes so much sense! It says that the lotus eaters song was kicking his butt!
a son of athena??? OMG(s)!! WE'RE SIBLINGS!!!
@cabin6_athenagirlie OUR MOM IS ARE BAD*SS IN THE ARENA
Hello fellow Athena children
I'm not related to a god in any way, but I wanna be included! :D
@@AryaPlus YESS HELLO FELLOW HUMAN BEING!!
Horse and the infant 2.0. I imagine a horse coming up to Eury and whisper him thoughts of deceit and betrayal and at first he’s like wtf but then he starts to like what he hears and with the rising conflict between Ody and him.. my gods, the idea is incredibly good! Very intriguing.
Beginning of 600 strike was really just Ody's "going super saiyan" moment lol Loved the entirety of the vengeance saga.
The way I started screaming during the Poseidon/Eury segment. I love the concept, but I wouldn't want to replace anything we've already seen.
Keep up the great work, Jorge
Always interesting to learn something new. Thank you, Jay! 🙌
Despite being cut, “Wouldn’t you like to be king?” Is such a LINE. Just like the “next to my wife” in 600 strike.
I’m actually glad the plot line with Eurylochus and Poseidon got scrapped more for Eurylochus’ character arc. He was a man about survival, from his first line he’s talking about how they’re all going to eat and be fed for the rest of the trip. The saddest thing about Eurylochus is that he JUST wanted to live. That he didn’t trust Odysseus would get them to safety. The added power struggle would have muddied the water XD
Eurylochus in a parallel universe after Poseidon talks to him: “I JUST CANT WAIT TO BE KING!”
OH MY GOODNESS MORE OF JORGE’S RAMBLING, this is so interesting! I always wondered why We’ll Be Fine was changed, and all the other changes were so interesting too! Wow, but it makes sense within the story of Epic why you kept what you kept and scrapped what you scrapped.
Ody and Athena vs Eurylochus and Posiedon would be SO COOL!! That being said, I think Epic is exactly the way it needs to be, but it is really cool to hear about alternate plotlines!
It's cool to see how your thoughts were before the final product. Thank you for this video I love seeing how things changed from the beginning.
Holy shit why are all of his scrapped songs so good
Ooooooo!!! That bit of “Wouldn’t you like to be King?” That’s powerful!
That scrapped part with Poseidon and Eury was so sick!! The repeating letimotifs, the lyrics, and offering Eury the chance to be *king* is wild, especially considering the final direction of that arc where Eury betrays Ody of his own accord.
I’d love a part 2 of this! Maybe elaborating on your early drafts where the crew members had bigger roles in the story and were explored in more depth, and if you wrote any lyrics to go with Hades’ appearance in God Games and what his argument was
OMG, the connection between Eurylochus and Poseidon took me by surprise, I feel like it's something that could have been very interesting if it had happened, IT'S TIME TO MAKE COMICS MUEJEJE
Honestly I think it just doesn't work with the less villainous Eurylochus we have now.
1:34 yeah two times; once to show himself and Odysseus mistake and then cause man tried one last time to stop Ody before he got tortured afterward😂
This is like an author going back and looking at all the brainstorming and ideas for their book. I know this bc I am a writer and this video is wildly relatable 😂
I immediately noticed how the og luck runs out with posidan asking eurylochus to open the wind bag is it has the melody of survive and mutiny
And the og, the horse and the infant
@ oh cool I didn’t notice that!
I like hearing how the story has changed or adapted
I hope this will someday be a full Musical and a show. I’d 10/10 go see it!!
1:13 honestly i feel like that would be such a good lyric in ruthlessness where he goes to eurylochus like "you know who i am" then the realisation sets in, maybe use the music from suffering when the siren tells ody he has to go through scylla. that would've been really cool imo 😭😭
the music when the siren tells ody he has to go through scylla has circe's motif and we don't meet circe until after ruthlessness
@@qwerty_qwertyyes circe's motif, that's what i was thinking about but i forgot the name so i just used 'the music from the siren blakaabala'
@@GreekMythology_Gacha but… why use circe’s motif there, what does poseidon have to do with circe?
Thank you for FINALLY disclosing the original ending in Luck Runs Out! It’s been keeping me up at night trying to come up with theories on who the mysterious person is. I can finally rest 😅
I understand why Poseidon showed up later, but also Eurylochus and Poseidon interacting is giving me SO MANY THOUGHTS-
You know, as a writer, it’s absurdly refreshing hearing stuff like this. So many cool ideas and directions a story can go but ultimately doesn’t for one reason or another. I love seeing these first draft type of things.
HOLY CRAP BUT THE "wouldn't you like to be king" LINE GOES SO HARD????
Bro, the way he thinks and plots the whole musical is hard work. PROPS, JORGANBONG BORBANBONG
As a writer I find it very neat to hear about other's scrapped plans/revisions for their stories. I too have planned out some absolutely wild stuff that I then removed/change later down the line and every so often I look back on those plans and wonder what on earth was I thinking.
Reminder for anyone who sees this that Jay has mentioned that older versions of EPIC had a rap battle between Athena and Aphrodite. Do what you will with this.
The baby still being a baby with the deepest voice in the entire musical is the best idea
That scrapped part with Poseidon and Eurylochus is really similar to the Horse and the Infant, with Zeus and Odysseus:
“A vision, of what is to come, cannot be outrun, can only be dealt with right here and now.
Show me how
I don’t think you’re ready”
This has to go into the cut saga!
The Zeus on THATI motif when Poseidon appears is just perfect, and the offering scene is great, but as you said, it would really only leave into a deadend
AHH! The melody in Mutiny being from the scrapped song is SO AWESOME!! Both show the conflict Eurylochus has between being loyal to Odysseus and over throwing him! Incredible! 😭🤩
OOOHHHHHHH, I remember seeing that old version of Luck Runs Out! Lol, it makes way more sense now, I remember being confused as hell when I first saw the end with your 🧿🧿 making an appearance! 😂
I'm not sure if you've talked about this before and I just haven't seen it yet but in the beginning of "Remember Them", the tune to "We're up we're off and away we go" from "Full Speed Ahead" plays faintly in the background. That's supposed to show a connection right?
I also noticed that in the beginning of "Luck Runs out" and "Mutiny" There's the same tune. On piano in "Luck Runs out" and on some sort of strings (I'm not great with string instruments) in "Mutiny"
And the beginning of "Mutiny" sounds a bit like Circe's riff too!
I know this is a lot but it's just SO COOL! Love your work by the way! Me and my friend really want to make our own musical now!
the idea of Poseidon/Eurylochus with Poseidon taking the same music pattern as Zeus from the Troy saga is a very nice one :o
It’s really cool to see your creative process step by step with the cut parts and dramatic moments
I actually LOVE Eurylochus, he's my favorite character in Epic, so all these concepts do sound absolutely amazing to me. Especially Poseidon mirroring Zeus' in the Horse in and the Infant, choosing Eurylochus as his champion, whilst Zeus chose Odysseus as his. And putting it in a way they both could not refuse... especially if it ended with "This is the will of the gods..."
BUT ultimately if you had went this route, he wouldn't be the Eurylochus that came to be in Epic, and would no longer be my favorite character. And all the changes you made were for the better.
..... Still really cool to think about though. Fanfiction time~
The story is very solid. It can be filled in in the Broadway musical which would be interesting to see!
Friendsssss, wake uppp, Jay's talking about EPICCCC
I know you probably wont see this, but thank you. You helped me out of a hard time in my life. Your videos, you music. They helped me so much. I wouldn't be here if not for it. Thank you so much Jorge.
The old version of luck runs out sounds amazing!! PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU JORGE PLEASE RELEASE A CUT SONG SAGA
How I love hearing the different paths EPIC could've taken; It's so interesting to hear your thought processes!! :)
Also side note, I absolutely love that scrapped section of Luck Runs Out, however I absolutely understand why it /was/ scrapped
Poseidon’s role in Epic is perfect. He serves as THE power you don’t want to mess with. If he first introduces himself by requesting help from a mortal, it would reduce his perceived power and make him less imposing and threatening.
“Which is a wild idea!” More wild than say…Ody using the windbag as a jet pack haha? 😅😂
The last part with Poseidon and Eurylochus was actually kinda fire though🔥🔥🔥
I remember binging all the older videos and seeing those clips and making small head cannons for them :D
Poseidon: don't you wanna be king?
Eurylochus: nah bro
The whole "sailed to an Island" line could've been a great reference to Athena sending Telemachus on a journey to Pylos and Mycenae!
4:00 Wait I kinda love that idea tho cuz even if you didn't show Eury's decision like Ody's choice to either kill or not kill the infant it's subtly foreshadowing of what he would eventually come to do not only with the wind bag but also Mutiny, slightly. Although I get why you didn't, Ruthlessness was definitely the right time to reveal Poseidon but that scrapped version is definitely interesting!
Jorge is so talented, not only can he craft such beautiful and meaningful songs but he uses the medium to tell such an amazing story and he's just so good at it. Also as a writer it's so cool to hear the process of how other writers came up with their stories and all the different ways it could have gone
Jorge I love Epic 😭💜
I also love EPIC
@ exactly
I’m not gonna lie. It makes sense why you didn’t include Poseidon in Luck Runs Out but after hearing you sing it there’s a part of me that really wishes you found a way.
The Eurylochus and Poseiden plotline you had going on seemed really cool! Shame it got scraped out, but I see the reasoning for it and I'm happier with how things ended up being anyways!
Also a Odysseus (+Athena) vs a Eurylochus (+Poseiden) battle seems so cool! Might have to draw it honestly 😉
I couldn't image Epic going in a better way than it did, your decisions were perfect!
That Eury/Posaidon interaction sounds so fun! And another instance of the survival Motif? Amazing. Honestly, I think I'd like it if it had stayed in, especially if that would be where the song ended with no further explanation, but I get why you wanted to cut it! It would probably make people know right off the bat that he was the one who opened the bag and the Scylla reveal would be worse, but it would give the audience a lot of anxiety every time something's up with Eurylochus (they'd be wondering if he took that offer)
“Thought do not exist” is the realest thing I’ve ever heard
I love hearing about the process. I struggle a lot with perfectionism and part of it was because I hardly ever saw the process behind my favorite art and only ever saw the final product. Having you share the "ugly" bits of early story development puts me at ease 😊
I honestly love all of these abd would love to see the Cut Saga for all the old songs, it's so good to see all your old ideas and know that you put a lot of struggle to give us the best musical
I love these glimpses into your mind and all the stuff that could've happened, but was ultimately changed/scrapped. Also Poseidon's lines in draft Luck Runs Out are lowkey-highkey sick, I want them. Thank you for sharing this and other inside-the-thought-process-of-Jorge videos! ❤ (Well. All the videos, honestly, whether they're silly goofy or heartfelt or snippets of songs or informative or anywhere between. Thank you!)
I really like the Eurylochus/Poseidon segment, it's interesting to think about how things would have unfolded if it went that way... but I have to say the current canon has more impact than the former version could ever have imo. Eurylochus being purely motivated by the crew's survival rather than having any ambition to overthrow Odysseus and "becoming king" gives his character more depth than if he was a classical antagonist. Instead of him being another enemy to overcome, Ody and him read as friends who, despite all the affection and the struggles they went through side by side, are at this point in time so fundamentally different in their mindset, morals and goals that they can only grow apart. No matter what they do, the dam was meant to break, but not for lack of love or loyalty. That makes their mutual consecutive betrayals even more heartbreaking and bittersweet in a way the initial draft could never do. It adds a bit of that tasty greek tragedy spice, in a nutshell, the dreaded yet inevitable fate of a doomed friendship 🫠 Not to mention how the reveal of Eurylochus being the one who opened the wind bag wouldn't have felt as much like a punch in the stomach as it does now, right before Scylla's slaughter.
I LOVE WATCHING THESE BC ITS SO AMAZING LIKE HOW GOOD EPIC WOULD BE LIKE WITH EITHER OF THE PLOTS
Ok but the idea of seeing Poseidon before knowing who or what he is and Eury realizing just who exactly it was and what he's done with the "OOOODYSSEUS OF ITHACA!!! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?" could have been really cool, the only problem is the whole "open this bag that none of us know about yet" lol
Still, the introduction we got was REALLY cool, and Eury's betrayal coming from his own paranoid distrust rather than a god's orders or suggestions is better character-wise imho
Ok but the Odysseus/zeus vs eury/poseidon dynamic is so interesting I wish I knew how to articulate it but stillll!!!
This makes me feel way better about my own stories changing a lot over the years!
Omg these are all rlly good please incorporate these into another idea!
Poseidon- open the bag, OPEN THE BAG EURYLOCHUS
Eurylochus- WHAT BAG????
Just like the end of the Thunder saga, are we going to get to hear more of the No Longer You prophecy?
it'll never happen but would love to have a "bloopers play list", after the whole musical is done, that's just full of the cut songs/ cut versions of songs
Oh man was cool to hear the ideas! Am really glad about the Badass Poseidon we have, rip his pride in vengeance saga tho.
Forget a lot how creating a musical is like 70% storytelling translated into music and like 30% making songs bops💙
Love your work Jay 💙💙
That “hell yes I can!” Was amazing and I can’t describe it😭🫶
I really like the parrallel between Eurylochus and Poseidon and Zeus and Odysseus. To me it kinda feels like the Gods are playing a game/making bets with the lives of Ody and his crew.
Lo más bonito de todo es verte en ese proceso creativo. Love you!!! 😘😘😘
The 100+ songs cut saga will be so fire
I honestly love how Monster turned out, it's so simple narratively but at the same time so effective and created a perfect transition for Odysseus.
0:53 So that's who it was in that old short. Ahhhh
I will also say you did an excellent job cutting the plots that didn’t work or wouldn’t work. The final product is astounding, amazing and very well streamlined. 👍🏻 As a writer it’s always such a comfort to hear about scrapped narrative ideas from another creative mind.