My pro pipe graph on my 124 looks exactly like yours. Peaks at 2800 with 142 torque and dips down to 140 and stays there till about 5000 rpm. It is a great pipe and sounds awesome!
Great video as usual! Got the sidewinder when it first came out for my M8 Roadglide. In my opinion worst sounding pipe on a M8 I had ever heard. Even called S&S to ask if they even tested the sound before releasing it. They didnt have an answer for me. Called a few times and was told someone would call me back. Never got a call. Also at the time they didnt sell replacement end caps for example if you scraped it. Sold it as soon as I could.
Outstanding video as this took a lot of time and effort on your part. I have owned nothing but D$D on all four of my bikes. I've never been disappointed.
You guys rocked it,this is probably the best side by side comparison test I've seen,Great job, I'm looking into Bassani 2 into 1,could you test that pipe for a M8,thanks
What a GREAT video! I wish someone would have done this 10 years ago. I would have saved allot of $$$ and time. Instead I had to learn this lesson the HARD way.
helpful video, I'm struggling with a pipe to put on my dyna 103 with S&S 551 cams and your 2 into 1 comparison was very helpful since I'm just learning to read the graphs. You simply have to look a the curve. Thanks
Awesome, happy to hear it. You want to look at all the numbers too, but the curve provides context and without it the numbers only paint a portion of the picture. The D&D fat cat is supposed to be one of the better performers for a set up like that from I'm told. Something to look into.
Question... '17 roadglide ultra, having the stage 4 128 kit installed, currently have RCX 4.5 inch mufflers and headpipe WITHOUT cat. Im looking for your opinion, roll with this setup or a suggested alternate. Thank you for your insight.
I'd have loved to see the stock config on a graph just to see. Do you guys have a video like this for a TC96? Also didn't mention which M8 you were testing?
Could you show the difference between a Bassani and TBR since they seem to be two big players in the 2:1 systems on either the Twin Cam or M8 engines, and also the best Torque making 2:2 systems. Would be great to see, cheers.
Thanks U guys are awesome and confirmed my thoughts and the power numbers and their range… also what about the old school Thunder header, and your thoughts on this shatkrosd 2 into 1
The lines intersect in all different places depending on the performance of the motor. for the most part that's roughly where they'll intersect, but some set ups vary depending on what needs to be done to tune correctly. Some of the True Duals that took the most tuning intersected much earlier.
Is this setup making more power than the 2-1-2 setup? like your typical tormentors headers with a slipon on your other videos? I’m surprised it’s making this much power without the back pressure everybody says the m8 motor needs
Hey I like the specs on that RCX 2-1 your using but when I follow the link it just goes to their homepage. Do you have more info on it like a mode number or anything I could reference their site with or to ask them what their comparable today is that they have?
Not yet, they're also a competitor on a lot of items so we don't intend to carry their product either. We did test their headers though and that info should be coming out in the near future.
When testing the V&H Propipe, which baffle was used and how much difference/variance will that cause based on backpressure? Also, I live at altitude, avg riding is 5800' above sea level. Is there a tuner that will compensate or do I just dyno-tune and call it good?
I see some torque curves don't even start till 2,300 rpm while others are around 100 ft. lbs. at 2,000 rpm. I'm all about low end torque, what rpm would I be engaging the clutch from an initial launch? I don't have a tach on my current bike.
If you guys could do the same thing for the most popular headpipes that would be awesome. S&s power tune, rcx tormentor, Vance and Hines, fuel Moto jackpot, and bassani true duals. I'd love to see that shootout
Yes we can and we already tested a bunch. We have one or two more to do and then we'll release that video. It took us a while to figure out the exact format and the right way to make the video. If this format seems to make sense to everyone, we'll do it this way and if not we'll make adjustments. The header systems are definitely more common than the 2-1s. Stay tuned, we'll also be doing a cam shootout as well.
Mike, thanks for the video. I've always run 2-1's on my previous TC's, but there isn't a ton of objective feedback on them for the M8. I've been eyeing the Non Catalyst Sidewinder, mostly because I think it'll be a quieter 2-1 compared to others. In your opinion, would the Non Cat Sidewinder be comparable power-wise to the RCX while also a bit quieter? I know the S&S has the decibel killer, but I have never heard one in person. I just assume it's quieter. Again, thanks for the video. You guys' reviews are great.
Thanks Mark. I would think it would be similar. When we took that cat slip on off the S&S you could see the difference and that power was similar to the RCX, with that added benefit of the decibel reducer they include.
Wicked video. Very explanatory I’d be keen to know how the Supertrapp 2-1 supermeg 20 discs and open end cap, would perform in comparison. I interested because I had my 107” TC put out 129hp/114tq. Then when I had it taken to 117” TC ( same pipe same dyno and tuner)put out 129hp/125tq. I was expecting more of both from the 117” and wonder if the Supertrapp is restrictive in any way. On a side note, interesting to see I did A Dyno run with a set of V&H bigshot staggered while it was an107” and I lost 10hp.cheers always enjoy your videos. 🌑👊
We have a similar video coming with different dual header systems. We have tested true duals and the performance was not very good. Stay tuned for that, we're waiting on one or two more headers to come in from the supplier.
There really is no comparison between a true dual and a 2-1. 2-1 will perform significantly better across the board, but some people prefer the true dual sound over a 2-1
Just got the sidewinder, hopefully without the catalytic converter since it was $120 or so cheaper than the "49-state" version. Can't wait to test it! Got the Arlen Ness monster sucker on and already got bigger cams in. Once I get her bored out and dyno tuned my buddies will always be in the mirror :)
@@joshhart4931 I'm not sure Josh. It depends on where you're ordering from. We display the right prices and for us and S&S the EPA approved pipes are more money. It all depends on what you actually bought and if it wasn't with us I can't tell you exactly why.
We do use the widebands when we can, but for doing many different pipes in a short period of time it doesn't make sense. Keep in mind we're not keeping these pipes on the bike. That being said, if you look closely at the power curves on the dyno, you don't see a lot of small peaks and valleys. They are very smooth, which is a sign of a high quality tune. We might have been able to dyno in a few less runs, or maybe 1 or 2 percent better power, but it would be negligible performance gains.
I think the reason the Intersection is so low is because the side scales are not the same, 130 TQ opposite 110 BHP. I f this was corrected the TQ/BHP would cross at 5250 like the other pipes and it would make this pipe look a whole lot better
@@WestEndMotorsports ...I think the reason the Intersection is so low is because the side scales are not the same, 130 TQ opposite 110 BHP. I f this was corrected the TQ/BHP would cross at 5250 like the other pipes and it would make this pipe look a whole lot better
I don't quite understand why 2 to 1 setups are higher performance than slip ons for example. Unless it has to do with back pressure. Anyways I got some cobra power pro hp 2 to 1s for my v star opting for performance over that slip on sound and they sound pretty good. Got them from your website.
That's a big part of it. The other things is consistency between the cylinders. Length also affects flow and back pressure, because VTwins are basically sideways in the motor, the front pipe is generally longer than the rear which creates more back pressure. By running both pipes into a shared "collector" you actually allow the flow and back pressure to equalize. It's the same reason a 2-1-2 outperforms a true dual header.
Congratulations on a VERY informative video! All you dunderheads, take notice. Nobody wants to hear you rev your bike. Have you tested the new x series Thunderheader,?
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
My pro pipe graph on my 124 looks exactly like yours. Peaks at 2800 with 142 torque and dips down to 140 and stays there till about 5000 rpm. It is a great pipe and sounds awesome!
I've seen that set up on few bikes and that's about the same as what they were running, so it's definitely a hell of a set up.
Excellent Video! This is by far the best Dyno tune video on the WEB.
Great video as usual! Got the sidewinder when it first came out for my M8 Roadglide. In my opinion worst sounding pipe on a M8 I had ever heard. Even called S&S to ask if they even tested the sound before releasing it. They didnt have an answer for me. Called a few times and was told someone would call me back. Never got a call. Also at the time they didnt sell replacement end caps for example if you scraped it. Sold it as soon as I could.
Great video would like to see bassini and thunderheader. Really impressed with RCX. I’m wondering what the difference might be on twin cams
Ive had 5 different exhausts on my bike the thunderheader made the best power overall but so fuckin loud! Bassani was a close second
Outstanding video as this took a lot of time and effort on your part. I have owned nothing but D$D on all four of my bikes. I've never been disappointed.
Love my D&D, pipes a beast. Sounds amazing too.
CAN'T BEAT the PRO PIPE ! SEE U IN MY REAR MIRROR
The S&S pipe numbers are incorrect. Hp and torque always cross at 5252.
Can you explain why the tests for S&S do not appear correct? The torque and HP should always cross at 5252 RPM.
Have you tested the new x series thunder header, with same S&S camshaft?
Good video. Can’t wait to see the cam shoot out and the 2-1-2 shootout.
School in session..thank you for sharing your time. This was a good video explaining the how and whys. Keep up the good work!!!
In your video you mention one of the pipes coming with two baffles a competition and a quieter baffle. Which pipe was that?
So which one do you recommend
You guys rocked it,this is probably the best side by side comparison test I've seen,Great job,
I'm looking into Bassani 2 into 1,could you test that pipe for a M8,thanks
We'll make a note and try to get them on the next round. Thanks, glad to hear it.
What a GREAT video! I wish someone would have done this 10 years ago. I would have saved allot of $$$ and time. Instead I had to learn this lesson the HARD way.
helpful video, I'm struggling with a pipe to put on my dyna 103 with S&S 551 cams and your 2 into 1 comparison was very helpful since I'm just learning to read the graphs. You simply have to look a the curve. Thanks
Awesome, happy to hear it. You want to look at all the numbers too, but the curve provides context and without it the numbers only paint a portion of the picture. The D&D fat cat is supposed to be one of the better performers for a set up like that from I'm told. Something to look into.
has anyone done these tests with the 475c cam ? it would be nice to see what a 2-1 will do with the torque dip in a HP cam.
That D&D would walk every single other pipe and the Vance and Hines pro Pipe would be a close second.
Great video. If you had to boil it down to the best all round system, which is it? Thank You.
What IS the industry average?
Any testing done with the Thunderheader?
Have you all done any dyno run looks at the Trask Assault 2 into 1? If so, any comparisons? Especially interested in compared to the RCX.
Question... '17 roadglide ultra, having the stage 4 128 kit installed, currently have RCX 4.5 inch mufflers and headpipe WITHOUT cat. Im looking for your opinion, roll with this setup or a suggested alternate. Thank you for your insight.
Great video, thanks for putting the work in!! Any insight to Sidewinder race ready numbers?
I'd have loved to see the stock config on a graph just to see. Do you guys have a video like this for a TC96? Also didn't mention which M8 you were testing?
Tricky one because SS says you don't loose performance with the cat, dunno who or what to beleive anymore
Can you do a 103 or 110 twin cam test please?
Great video. Do you have any dyno data on the Khrome Werks products?
Could you show the difference between a Bassani and TBR since they seem to be two big players in the 2:1 systems on either the Twin Cam or M8 engines, and also the best Torque making 2:2 systems. Would be great to see, cheers.
Wow this is an awesome video thank you love the pro pipe but can’t afford it at the moment !!!
Dre Escamilla I have one on my 124 m8. It’s an awesome pipe and sounds awesome! ruclips.net/video/q41jAmT24JQ/видео.html
Corbra el Diablo 2 in to 1 any info on it
Unrelated, but what seat is on that bike?
I'd like to see the dyno on rhe 2 into 1 Cobras, long length and turnouts.
Thanks U guys are awesome and confirmed my thoughts and the power numbers and their range… also what about the old school Thunder header, and your thoughts on this shatkrosd 2 into 1
On the chart for the S&S Sidewinder pipe, why don't the torque/hp lines intersect @ 5252 rpm like they're supposed to???
The lines intersect in all different places depending on the performance of the motor. for the most part that's roughly where they'll intersect, but some set ups vary depending on what needs to be done to tune correctly. Some of the True Duals that took the most tuning intersected much earlier.
Is this setup making more power than the 2-1-2 setup? like your typical tormentors headers with a slipon on your other videos? I’m surprised it’s making this much power without the back pressure everybody says the m8 motor needs
Link to website says 09-16 on all rcx 2 into 1 options, no 17-20?
Did you dyno the stock exhaust to establish a baseline?
Hey I like the specs on that RCX 2-1 your using but when I follow the link it just goes to their homepage. Do you have more info on it like a mode number or anything I could reference their site with or to ask them what their comparable today is that they have?
Have you ever compared the RCX 2 into 1 vs fuel Moto 2 into 1 road & track ?
Not yet, they're also a competitor on a lot of items so we don't intend to carry their product either. We did test their headers though and that info should be coming out in the near future.
WestEndMotorsports thanks
Thank you for the nuts n bolts up front.
When testing the V&H Propipe, which baffle was used and how much difference/variance will that cause based on backpressure? Also, I live at altitude, avg riding is 5800' above sea level. Is there a tuner that will compensate or do I just dyno-tune and call it good?
So put pretty much any exhaust on and it will be excellent.
Video starts at @5:20
1.5X
Thank you. Holy buckets, yabbidy blabbidy yip yap blah blah blah.
Great job! For the$ I like the s&s without cat and decibel reducer
I see some torque curves don't even start till 2,300 rpm while others are around 100 ft. lbs. at 2,000 rpm. I'm all about low end torque, what rpm would I be engaging the clutch from an initial launch? I don't have a tach on my current bike.
I think 60 mph in 6th gear is about 2250 rpm and I would like to have plenty of torque at that speed and gear.
Fab28 2into 1 and the TBR 2into 1for the 114 m8?
Would like to see the thunderheader x series
If you guys could do the same thing for the most popular headpipes that would be awesome. S&s power tune, rcx tormentor, Vance and Hines, fuel Moto jackpot, and bassani true duals. I'd love to see that shootout
Hey Shawn, we have actually done it and filmed it, just getting it edited. Stay tuned and subscribe!
@@WestEndMotorsports no way? That's awesome. Will do!
Hope to see this soon. I'm on the fence about a few headpipes
Can you do this on 2 into 1 into 2? With the most common mufflers? Or have you done this before?
Yes we can and we already tested a bunch. We have one or two more to do and then we'll release that video. It took us a while to figure out the exact format and the right way to make the video. If this format seems to make sense to everyone, we'll do it this way and if not we'll make adjustments. The header systems are definitely more common than the 2-1s. Stay tuned, we'll also be doing a cam shootout as well.
@@WestEndMotorsports
👍👍 You guys are the best!
Mike, thanks for the video. I've always run 2-1's on my previous TC's, but there isn't a ton of objective feedback on them for the M8. I've been eyeing the Non Catalyst Sidewinder, mostly because I think it'll be a quieter 2-1 compared to others. In your opinion, would the Non Cat Sidewinder be comparable power-wise to the RCX while also a bit quieter? I know the S&S has the decibel killer, but I have never heard one in person. I just assume it's quieter. Again, thanks for the video. You guys' reviews are great.
Thanks Mark. I would think it would be similar. When we took that cat slip on off the S&S you could see the difference and that power was similar to the RCX, with that added benefit of the decibel reducer they include.
What Slip-On did you use to get those better results and I would like to buy it for my set up
@@markbelliveau5130 I believe it was a 4" Crusher maverick. You can't buy them individually though, you would have to buy the pair.
Thank you
Wicked video. Very explanatory
I’d be keen to know how the Supertrapp 2-1 supermeg 20 discs and open end cap, would perform in comparison. I interested because I had my 107” TC put out 129hp/114tq. Then when I had it taken to 117” TC ( same pipe same dyno and tuner)put out 129hp/125tq. I was expecting more of both from the 117” and wonder if the Supertrapp is restrictive in any way.
On a side note, interesting to see I did A Dyno run with a set of V&H bigshot staggered while it was an107” and I lost 10hp.cheers always enjoy your videos. 🌑👊
Thanks Trent, we'll put them on the list of possibilities...
So the RCX 2-1 are no longer available?
No. I tried. I ended up going with the Vance & Hines pro pipe.
Didn’t hear. Did u use any tuner.
Of course, this is all done with the TTS Mastertune.
Would be interesting to see the stats on a true dual system. Just to see how far off it is
We have a similar video coming with different dual header systems. We have tested true duals and the performance was not very good. Stay tuned for that, we're waiting on one or two more headers to come in from the supplier.
True duals on m8=torque loss
how do these compare to rinehart stepped pipe true duals?
There really is no comparison between a true dual and a 2-1. 2-1 will perform significantly better across the board, but some people prefer the true dual sound over a 2-1
Just got the sidewinder, hopefully without the catalytic converter since it was $120 or so cheaper than the "49-state" version. Can't wait to test it! Got the Arlen Ness monster sucker on and already got bigger cams in. Once I get her bored out and dyno tuned my buddies will always be in the mirror :)
If it wasn't the 49 state version then it would be the 50 state version, which is with the catalyst.
@@WestEndMotorsports why do they charge more without it?
@@joshhart4931 I'm not sure Josh. It depends on where you're ordering from. We display the right prices and for us and S&S the EPA approved pipes are more money. It all depends on what you actually bought and if it wasn't with us I can't tell you exactly why.
@@WestEndMotorsports ya they were $120 or so cheaper so I'm assuming they're without the cat
@@WestEndMotorsports bought through J&P cycles
How would these results change if tuned with wideband O2 sensors.
We do use the widebands when we can, but for doing many different pipes in a short period of time it doesn't make sense. Keep in mind we're not keeping these pipes on the bike. That being said, if you look closely at the power curves on the dyno, you don't see a lot of small peaks and valleys. They are very smooth, which is a sign of a high quality tune. We might have been able to dyno in a few less runs, or maybe 1 or 2 percent better power, but it would be negligible performance gains.
Your lines intersect early on the S&S graphs. Like at 4,300. Why?
Hey Gabriel, its a good question. It intersect pretty early with and without the cat which means to me it has something to do with the header design.
I think the reason the Intersection is so low is because the side scales are not the same, 130 TQ opposite 110 BHP. I f this was corrected the TQ/BHP would cross at 5250 like the other pipes and it would make this pipe look a whole lot better
@@WestEndMotorsports ...I think the reason the Intersection is so low is because the side scales are not the same, 130 TQ opposite 110 BHP. I f this was corrected the TQ/BHP would cross at 5250 like the other pipes and it would make this pipe look a whole lot better
I don't quite understand why 2 to 1 setups are higher performance than slip ons for example. Unless it has to do with back pressure. Anyways I got some cobra power pro hp 2 to 1s for my v star opting for performance over that slip on sound and they sound pretty good. Got them from your website.
That's a big part of it. The other things is consistency between the cylinders. Length also affects flow and back pressure, because VTwins are basically sideways in the motor, the front pipe is generally longer than the rear which creates more back pressure. By running both pipes into a shared "collector" you actually allow the flow and back pressure to equalize. It's the same reason a 2-1-2 outperforms a true dual header.
@@WestEndMotorsports good info! Thanks! I didn't think of it that way.
The rcx sounds great,does it some what have that harley sound,i got cfr megaphones and I think it sounds like a Subaru lol,I be looking you up for rcx
Did you buy the RCX am if so how did you like it ??
Why no ghost pipe for the RCX?
Spend that money to get POWER and then strap an anchor on it? No thanks!
I got 155/158 so I think the Ghost pipe isn't slowing me down much
What about krome works 😮
Congratulations on a VERY informative video! All you dunderheads, take notice. Nobody wants to hear you rev your bike. Have you tested the new x series Thunderheader,?
Thanks. We don't carry thunder header, so we haven't and don't have any plans to either.
I wish this guy would just shut up and get to the point
How about a Fuel Moto RTX 2:1
How about D&D big bore and Khrome Werks Eclipse and Thunder header 2:1