My EV road trip return had two small hiccups, and the state of the Bolt EV (and Volt, too)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- Description tells all / most. Here are the relevant vids:
The Road Trip video: • How Easy is an EV Road...
My video on DC Fast Charging: • The tech which can cha... 
Наука
In reviewing older footage, I discovered that on the way back I had simply... forgotten which plug wasn't working in Clarksville! So, uh, the stop in Clarksville might not have required a longer stay. I just, well, tried the same broken plug a second time.
Yay.
Good job chief
@@Nsaf_UKR It was a stellar performance.
@@TechnologyConnextras thanks for great content! Midwesterners gotta stick together!!
If you're looking for new video ideas, I've been going through my breaker box to test things (the original directory has faded to illegibility in the sunlight) and discovered that my bedroom wall outlets use an AFCI breaker. You did an excellent video explaining GFCI; this might be a good topic for a follow up on electrical safety devices.
Hey I was wondering about how the guy with the bmw took your etiquette comment. 12:20ish to jog your memory :)
Also I love most of your videos and the topics are great. And it may not be the best compliment but a year or two ago when I found you I would put your videos on to get my currently 7 year old (so maybe 5 or 6 at the time) son to bed… he asked for your videos tho for a substantial amount of time tho; we didn’t allow video games and RUclips gamers’ videos to be watched during the week in my house so he would ask to watch you as educational content as a loophole in our rules lmao. Now he has been a good boy in school so he gets some special treatment above his older punk of a sister lol, but I wanna get her into your stuff as well.
Sorry for the long post but it has been a long time coming; I have a lot to say but try to keep it limited cuz it is usually a waste of time typing all this crap out for nobody to bother reading…
Either way we love the channel and the main channel too :)
Why Chevy though it would be a good idea to name two different cars "Bolt" and "Volt", we may never know…
And the one named Volt isn't the all electric one, which is the intuition of... everyone, really
I had both simultaneously and it was a real pain. Calling insurance was always so complicated.
They had the Spark too! Most of which were not actually electrified!
They had a Spark, which was not electric. Just because some one is a marketing professional, doesn't mean you know what you are doing. And what does "Bolt" really mean?
Having three tiers of EV with Bolt, Volt, and Jolt would have been nice though
A partial solution to the chargine etiquette could be displaying a message on the kiosk such as:
"Your vehicle is not capable of utilizing the full capacity of this charger, please consider moving to a lower ouput charger to allow other vehicles to charge faster"
Just a gentle reminder to people who may not know much about the technology or how fast their car even charges.
That's clever, actually. Even better if it can shows the time you can cut if you use the correct chargers.
I would say maybe make all the fast chargers green because people know that they shouldn't put diesel in their cars and Diesel is green?
1) And how would charger determine that? Car decides what how to charge, it doesn't report to charger what it is capable theoretically.
2) Do you really think, someone would give a shit? People starting giving a shit only after they have been beaten for not giving a shit.
Just make ALL chargers 350 kwh and then it won't be an issue.
@@yaroslavpanych2067 Because in pretty much every circumstance that the charger is asked to charge at less than 150kW it will never exceed that over the entire charge cycle. The charger knows how much power it's delivering.
Another idea, this time technological: Build stations where all chargers are 350 even if not all of them can be 350 simultaneously, then disable all remaining chargers when it's up to capacity (or lower the amount of power delivered proportionally)
Even if your vehicle supports 350KW charging, it's only when your battery is fairly empty that you get full charging speed. Additionally, you could add some sodium ion batteries (or second life lithium batteries) to the charging station.
Between those two things, all chargers could easily be 350KW chargers, couldn't they?
They are already sharing power if the transformer is maxed out. So usually you won't be able to have two cars charge at 350 simultaneously anyway but something like 200 each (which drops off anyway, charging curve
...)
But: The hardware required to make it 300 or 350 capable is more complex than a max 150 kW charger so it makes sense to have a combination of 50, 150 and 350 kW chargers from a perspective of installation cost.
@@Sixotoo Not specifically
The issue isn’t getting the power to feed the car, it’s having beefy enough electronics and cables to handle that power safely and without overheating, so a 350kW charger is not just a 150kW with more access to power, it’s got different cables and electronics as well to handle that increase
@@sage5296 Yes, we know. We watched the video too, you know.
But the difference between a 150kw charger and a 350kw charger won't be that much (price wise) especially when you take into account the economies of scale.
Liquid cooling loops and larger busbars/SSR's aren't going to significantly increase cost, and frankly the majority of chargers will have to be 350kW soon enough anyway - because most cars sold from now on can use it, so most owners will expect it.
Like, the real world cost to an ISP of 1Gb broadband is not 10x that of 100Mb broadband, it's more like 5-10% more expensive, and prices will drop as deployment improves.
The same goes for all technology. As demand increases, and supply increases to cope with that demand, prices drop dramatically.
We're not in a situation where one or the other is good enough, as EV adoption is taking off, 350kW chargers will have to be the *minimum* standard. What's the point of installing a 150kW charger in 2022 when you'll need to upgrade it to 350kW in 2023 or 2024?
The extra cost of a 350kW charger will be less than the cost of sending a crew to dig up the 150kW infrastructure and replace it, so in the long run the 350kW charger is actually cheaper.
The majority of cars sold will be capable of superfast charging, and that's what people will demand. There's no point in new 150kW chargers at this point.
8:03 “it’s an education problem; it’s an etiquette problem…”
As a political scientist, I find this pretty much describes every fundamental problem in society at the moment.
Yes it does.
Yup. Any situation that rewards people for hurting others is not the fault of the people, it is the fault of the system.
@@knurlgnar24 very much disagree. People still have the choice not to be assholes to each other just for a little benefit to themselves.
@@knurlgnar24 Yet systems were created by people. So it is still the fault of the people, just maybe not the same group.
If they only knew, if they only cared…
"Hastily covered"
17 min of a 38min video.
I approve
You can always count on GM to do the right thing, after having exhausted all the other options.
IMO thats not even a bad thing. In this case, if the Software Update had fixed the Problem, it would've been a 20 Minute waiting game for the customer and Zero hassle for GM. The new battery is nice, but it might take days for the change and people usually dont have the option to just use another car, while theirs is a the repair shop.
And for Ford to simply never do it.
@@xxcr4ckzzxx840 Agreed. If a quick software update will actually fix the problem, I'll have that.
Sadly a software update cannot fix LG Chem's bad batteries, so here we are.
GM actually fucked up even more. They stop-saled all Bolts until the battery swap was done. The dealers could sell the new or used Bolts, but could not deliver them. That's already stupid as the software limitation would be enough to mitigate the risk, but it actually gets worse. I technically bought a 2016 bolt in December. I have never gotten the car, and will not get the car for probably 6 months or more. What GM failed to tell the dealers or customers is that no matter what year or vin your car is, if wasn't currently owned by a customer before the recall, it goes to the bottom of the recall list. Even though mine is a 2017 which is currently second highest priority,it will not get a batter until EVERY other customer owned bolt gets one. Since GM isn't even half way through the recall, and is now splitting allocations between recall, and new produ tion, I'll be lucky to get my car by Christmas. None of this was disclosed to me before purchase, and I cannot rescind the purchase as I'd lose all my money. It's a bitch to hate the car you are gonna be stuck with for many years, before you've even driven it.
@@SweetLou0523 that’s not GMs screw up. It is illegal to deliver a vehicle that is under a safety recall. The stop sale wasn’t their choice, it was a legal requirement. The dealer (which is an independently owned and operated business BTW) shouldn’t have sold you the car but you, as the buyer, should have known better than to buy a car that was under a safety recall and hadn’t been fixed.
That weirdness you mentioned with the bolt energy usage screen is definitely a bug I should have caught. Remembering how that system worked, I'm fairly certain that's caused by a reporting issue from the engine computer not providing data over the CAN bus for the infotainment module (the touch screen) to show.
Source: I worked on the software for the infotainment module.
Whoops, lol :)
Thanks for sharing this with us!
That's really cool.
Love my Ioniq 5, especially after this weekend! I live in Ontario and a derecho came through and caused a huge amount of infrastructure damage that will take many weeks to repair. It's basically like the entire city has been hit with a tornado everywhere and all at once. We were pretty lucky in that we only lost power for about 36 hours but a large swath of our city is still dark going on three days now and outages are expected to last probably until next weekend or longer. Trees and power poles are down everywhere, like literally on every single street. Some houses have been damaged or destroyed by debris. It's been a crazy weekend.
Anyway, during our outage I was able to use the vehicle to load capability of the car to run our fridges and our neighbour's fridges (via really long extension cords) for the entire time of the blackout without interruption. Today when our power came back on I drove the car over to my in-laws and have now been all their stuff off the car. I only had just over 60% charge when the disaster hit (it was unexpected and happened ridiculously fast) but when I checked on it a little while ago it was still over 50% charge so I used maybe 10% over the past two days. Based on the draw I estimate the car will be good for about five more days before I need to go recharge it. Luckily our local Electrify Canada station has managed to stay online and powered the entire emergency so it would be just a 15min stop to recharge had our power not come back on at home. We are currently an island of power in a sea of darkness, not sure how that works. Power grids are weird.
I thought the V2L would be a bit useful for camping and astronomy but it's been a life saver. A lot of my neighbours had to throw out so much food because it all went bad while the power was out. Imagine how much more resilient our communities would be if everyone had this capability? Pretty much everyone that passed my house and saw the extension cord running from my car through the house window and inside asked about it. Some people have generators humming away but they only last about 8 hours before they need to be refuelled and the few gas stations with power have lineups for blocks of people hoping the station won't run out of fuel before it's their turn. My car is doing the same job as a typical 1500 Watt generator is doing it in silence and will keep doing it for the better part of a week without stopping. Pretty sure I've converted a dozen people over to EV this weekend alone.
If you don't have a V2L adapter for your Ioniq 5 I highly recommend picking one up. You never know when it might be useful to have a portable generator at your disposal.
That's some serious resilience demonstration of EVs and a really good usp in areas which can devastatingly get hit by tornados 🌪.
Refrigerators don’t use much power. About 1 kilowatt-hour per day. EVs use 35 KWh every hundred miles, so they need massive batteries. For example a 300 mile EV could power a refrigerator for over 100 days (estimated)
.
When my power had a storm failure, I took my car buy gas (no electricity doesn’t stop a gasoline car). THEN I used its builtin 120V plug to run my refrigerator. Like an emergency gasoline generator
.
I was on the fence about electric cars, but seeing how you managed to cross the country with one, I guess it's not as difficult as I thought. Plus it cost nearly $100 now to refuel my 2007 BMW 328xi, so I'm not too keen on continuing to use gasoline.
If either of you two are into more traditionally styled EVs, check out the Volvo C40 or XC40. It has very little of the typical EV weirdness that other brands seem compelled to cram into their cars. I went from driving a Nissan Leaf, Model S, Model 3, Model Y, and I can say I'm very pleased with the C40 so far.
Yep. There are a couple areas of the US that still have some difficulties for non-Telsas (Montana is a charging desert,) but for most of the US, especially along along the Coasts, it's no problem at all.
It still takes more planning than a gas car - there are only a couple specific stretches of road in the US where you actually need to PLAN a gas stop (a couple places in the Southwest where there is no gas station for a 100 mile stretch,) but for EVs, you often need to plan your route ahead of time to make sure you know where you're going to stop.
Do it! I've been an EV owner for more than a year now and have zero regrets. We use it for our main family car, and we do the vast majority of our charging at home. The very rare occasion that we use a charge point is only ever on road trips, and we just plan to stop for lunch while we charge so we don't even notice a delay.
@@mvansumeren4313 I love my xc40. but t does have a lot shorter range than other cars in the same price range. I also have occasional software hiccups that require me to hold down a button to reset the computer every couple months.
@@soangry Yeah, the consumption is noticeably higher on my C40 than my former Y. I reliably get ~180 miles with the C and used to get ~250 with the Y. (Highway driving at ~75 MPH and hard acceleration). C40 also doesn't charge as quickly as any Tesla, but my personal preference is still firmly with team Volvo. This is mostly due to Tesla's service in Michigan being far less than stellar in my many interactions with them.
Edit: I've only had my C for about a month, but no gremlins so far. Here's hoping it stays trouble free.
The EV charging etiquette is something nobody has caught onto and can be very annoying. It's not just a power problem - there's a similar etiquette issue for connectors. When I had a Leaf, I had to use Chademo, and there's only one Chademo charger at a station. Since there is more room around the Chademo kiosk (to allow for the Leaf to pull in nose first), CCS cars love to park there as it's just easier to get in. I've had to wake people up from naps and otherwise annoy drivers just to be able to get home! When it was time to upgrade I actually bought a Bolt instead of a new Leaf because of this issue happening all the time.
Bolts cap out at ~54kw charging, so I've tried to make an effort to take the 150 when possible, but the longer I've owned the car the more cars are actually at these things so I end up taking the only one that's available. I think the best option would be for EA to color code the actual connector body - maybe a white sheath for 150, yellow for 350? Who knows. What an awkward problem.
@Patrick Hudson huh?
I had the exact same problem with my Leaf on a longer trip a couple months ago. Fortunately the driver of the (CCS) car that was plugged into the one CHAdeMO-capable dispenser was willing to move to another pillar and he just wasn't aware of what CHAdeMO was or that there was an issue with him taking the one CHAdeMO plug.
It'd be nice if the stations were a bit smarter about directing people to things and also warned people to not take the CCS plug on the one CHAdeMO pedestal if there's other CCS plugs available, but there's a conspiracy theory that EA is trying to make life as difficult as possible for CHAdeMO users to encourage them to upgrade to CCS vehicles sooner rather than later.
@Patrick Hudson Please don't park a gas car at an EV charger, that doesn't do anyone any good. If you're worried about blocking a pump for another gas vehicle, the solution isn't to block a "pump" for an EV instead. There are plenty of better options for moving your truck if you want to buy snacks without blocking a gas pump.
@@fluffycritter at this point I'm almost ready to put the blame on Nissan for not creating a CCS adapter. It is by no means a simple fix due to some substantial differences in how they communicate and lock, and I expect an adapter to cost at least $1000, but they really ought to have one by now. It's been years since they declared they were phasing the connector out.
@@pinecone606 Yeah I somewhat agree, and the fact that Nissan is STILL selling new Leaf models with CHAdeMO is a bit unconscionable at this point. I'm glad they've finally switched to CCS on the Ariya though. But the Leaf is still a great vehicle for a lot of people, and I love the fact that there's at least one EV that's still price-competitive with typical economy cars and provides enough range for a large swath of drivers.
Connections Corrections! The Lucid Air can also pull 350 kW, not that there's a whole lot of them out there at this point.
Also, EVGo has new high power stations going in that have a "short" DCFC unit that delivers 100 kW and a "tall" one that delivers 350kW. So it's easy to tell at a glance which is which
Also to rivian can pull up to 200kW
@@dushanbebbddhdhdjsjs715 People with Rivian should NOT take 350kW charger, because it has only 400V class battery pack and at 350 Amps that this 350kW charger can provide it would peak only around 150kW.
Just here to appreciate "Connections Corrections."
Also the Koenigsegg Regera, and the Rimac Nevera and thus the Nevera's Italian version.
But there's like 180 vehicles in the world total which answer to any of the 3 names so who cares I guess.
@@petrkubena There are 500 amp 350kw stalls that will allow a Rivian to charge over 200kw.
8:15 Regarding the labelling at EA chargers, you're absolutely right. It needs to be a BIG, BOLD sign on the front of each charging pillar saying "" or something. I would absolutely park my car in the appropriate spot and not take up a space that I'm not capable of using to its fullest. The other fix, as you said, is education and etiquette, and you're doing a great job with getting the word out on that front. I credit you and your videos with my decision to take the leap into the world of EV's and I'm glad I did. I'm preaching the good word as much as I can!
also the price can be lower on the 150 charger to incentivize use only when needed
This seems like this can be fixed through software. Just prevent charging at the kiosk if a customer with a low-rate car attempts to charge at a high-rate charger when other nearby low-rate chargers are unoccupied. Force them to move the car. Then it will become habitual for people to just go to the low-rate chargers first.
@@TheVonMatrices That sounds like an overcomplicated pain in the ass that's just inviting problems. Remember the KISS principle.
@@LG123ABC The unit's are likely already talking to each other because their combined power is probably limited too, so they have to talk to each other. I don't think it would actually be that hard to implement something through software as FruitBasket suggested.
@@LG123ABC It's actually quite a simple software issue, and it's also the ONLY way people will ever get off of a high-charge station if they have a low-charge car. Signs won't help, people are assholes and will take up the spot because they can. And there will always be the 'BIGGER MEANS BETTER' idiots.
I agree with you, I will never go back to ICE since owning my Tesla. All the reservations I had about the car have never materialized; nothing about the battery, charging or long distance travel have ever been an issue. I don't wear diapers on long distance travel to avoid stopping so pausing for about 15-20 minutes every 2.5 hours of travel works just fine for me. I have gone between Florida and North Carolina many times with zero issues or delays. The best part of EV ownership is never going to a gas station and never going in for service. 2 years or ownership and all I do is rotate tires and fill up on windshield washer fluid.
I think EV’s still require service lol
@@timbur2711 True. I'll need to check the brake fluid at the 2 year mark for moisture. If I'm hard on the brakes then brake pads at 200,000 miles (as shown by my neighbor). Unless something actually brakes maybe something else but my EV club friends as a group have not experienced any unexpected failures.
@@FoamyDave I believe you even have to change the oil in the drive units at some point.
@@timbur2711 Not according to my Tesla maintenance schedule and not according to the few people I know that have high miles (120,000mi and 210,000mi respectively).
@@FoamyDave they didnt even change the oil filter?
Re: 350/150 kW chargers, personally I think what might help in the short term is big signs and just making the 350kW chargers charge more money if they're not being used to their full capacity. Doesn't have to be much, so long as it's well labelled.
Yes just like at gas station
That was my first thought as well. Just like people don't buy the 1% more expensive high octane fuel unless their car actually needs it - make the high power chargers 1% more expensive and only people who can actually benefit from them will use them.
But I would make the price difference unconditional. That way for example someone who could charge faster, but want to use the time to take a break or buy something at a store anyway could decide to save money by using a slower charger - which then leaves the faster charger available for someone who only wants to charge and is willing to pay for the time saved.
Also as you see in this video, having the faster chargers be more expensive is justified because it requires more equipment and maintenance to keep them working at full speed.
Exactly! Most people will not willingly pay more if it does not give them any advantage.
I like the idea.
NO car can use them to their full capacity yet.
Even if they do know there's a difference in the charge rate at each station, many people will just go for the biggest number, just because 'bigger is better'.
I said the same elsewhere. People buy "premium" gas just because it has more octane. They don't know what it is, what it does, or why they might want (or need) more of it, but it's "better."
oh god, my mom's one of them, she pays $0.90 extra per gallon for 93 octane for her 2010 *_Buick_* that I know will run on 87 just fine, it's an artificial mental thing, but what dafuq do I know 🤪🤕 LOL
And the REA funny thing is that many cars will run WORSE on high octane gas.
@@youdontknowme5969 Depending on the price difference, that will sometimes save money.
Larger vehicles often get better mileage on higher octane fuel.
My truck gets nearly 5mpg better mileage on 93 octane and if the price is less than 20% difference it makes good financial sense.
The inverse can be true as well, however.
My Corolla seems to be tuned around cheap gas and feels weird on hi-test.
@@SwervingLemon There really shouldn't be a different for most cars. Octane ratings are based on how much you can compress the fuel air mixture, high octane fuels can be compressed further which improves efficiency and performance. If you're car can't compress the fuel air mixture more than normal then it shouldn't make any difference. Some high performance cars actually need the higher octane fuel because they do have higher compression ratios which will cause the lower grade fuel to detonate prematurely (knockback). FlexFuel from my understanding is able to vary the compression ratios to compensate for differences in the fuel but FlexFuel is can also contain somewhere around 55% ethanol which has far worse energy density than gasoline so the fuels cheaper but your range is worse.
I guarantee a conversation has been had at some point where it was pointed out that their car can't use the full power and they said "i dunno it feels faster when i use this one so I'm gonna keep doing it" lol. i don't think people are ever going to learn this piece of etiquette on the whole
Yeah people have a tendency to latch onto their feelings for things like this, and not just for EVs. Like, I used to work in an office where my computer had one of the old-fashioned optical mice (with the special grid mousepad) and every time I came in that pad was moved to a coworker's computer (with a ball mouse), and she insisted that she needed the optical mouse pad to "wake up" her screen and she refused to understand that all she was doing was scratching up my mouse pad and making my computer unusable.
The real solution is different prices bfor both chargers. Some sort of time based cost would not impact faster charging cars but make it cost more for slower ones.
Same for people that pump high octane feul in a car that runs on crap feul
Some people will understand and adjust their behaviour, others won't, in some cases based on unrelated factors related to their interaction with the person who first told them about this. because humans.
Lol, it's like pushing the elevator button several times thinking that brings it to you floor faster...stupid humans..
I can't get past the "etiquette problem" of 350 vs 150. It can't be the user's responsibility. It annoys the crud out of me too with an EV6, don't get me wrong, but I think it's a bridge too far to put it on the user. For one, it's unreasonable to expect people to understand the difference, and the problem will only compound as more and more EVs hit the roads. Worse, there comes a density point which we will DEFINITELY experience, probably in waves, where there are lines at chargers. Those lines absolutely won't, and shouldn't, become "one queue for 150 and another for 350." The queueing dynamics are too silly to even discuss why, but guaranteed when the 350 frees up, the bolt that's been there longer will take it even if that burns half an hour compared to the I5 that could be in and out in 10min. Tesla's already there at some supercharger sites on busy days, and already ahead of EA combating this part of the problem.
The solution HAS to be better station design, with dynamically modular power converters and dispensers. If one dispenser is only consuming 30kW, free up conversion hardware to dedicate to other dispensers. It ends up shaving total installation cost anyway, since there's an absolute peak "power from the grid" that's well below the summed nameplate capacity of every dispenser, even if the site has battery storage too. Just give every dispenser a bus, and a bank of power converters that can dynamically attach to it in series+parallel to meet power demand. I know there's dispenser cost to be saved on cooling and cabling if only some dispensers must support 350kW, but to the extent it's not made up by reducing sitewide requirements with clever architecture, it's probably worth avoiding the inevitable consumer confusion. And I don't think there even is, since every dispenser must support 350A and that's the figure of merit for how much the cooling and cabling costs. The 350s simply require a taller stack of series converters.
And we know the scheme works because Tesla already does it with gen3 superchargers, which is why there isn't this same problem fighting for the fast stalls.
That's fair! I think that, for now though, we might as well be informing folks of the difference. As I said, if it's the only one available, you shouldn't feel bad for using it. But if you have the choice? Make the smart one.
Eh I feel just knowing that there are different chargers and that some are better for other cars but not your car is not insane to expect people to realize
Put a large red light that blinks on the dispenser when a non-350KW vehicle is connected. Or add a warning and/or surcharge on the screen.
@@TechnologyConnextras No question. It's already a problem, so short of redoing installations, education is the only option. But I think it's a colossal mound of technical debt that they created the split in the first place, and rearchitecting would solve problems that even perfect universal education can't.
You'll never see it get better. I bought my first diesel over 10 years ago, and until the day I sold it I had to wait behind a gasoline car at the only diesel (combo) pump at the local gas station because they couldn't be bothered to notice that every island dispenses gasoline, but only *this* island dispenses diesel, also.
On top of that, people today *still* think that premium gas will make their car run better and buy it whether their vehicle can optimize itself or not. These same people will park at the 350kW charger on purpose because more kW, more pReMiUm! (probably).
Dude seriously thank for this series. I’ve been looking at getting the Escape PHEV and you broke down all the ins and outs I can look for. I seriously appreciate this series of videos.
I remember back in the '80s the three different octane levels came out of three separate gas nozzles.... Being that premium costed slightly more no one ever bogarted the premium pump if their car didn't need it.... Just make the faster chargers cost slightly more to use and the problem will self-regulate... And on the flip side if you have more time than money you could charge your fast charge car on a slow charger.
I agree, making the faster chargers cost more per kWh is a good solution.
When I used an ea station this was the case the 350 kw cost 20% more if you used faster than 150kw.
@@Miweatherspotter1 That doesn't discourage someone from using the 350 for 150 though.
“bogarted the premium pump”? I don’t know what that expression means. I know of Humphrey Bogart the actor… don’t see how he relates to buying premium gas
.
I remember the octane 87 (regular) and 93 (premium) being on different hoses, but still the same pump. So while people are filling their standard cars, they were also blocking access for premium cars
.
As a Hyundai dealership employee, when you said they were gonna just send the inner packs instead of the whole battery module, I instantly said "no way, techs would never agree to to that" I know personally none of our techs would ever agree to do that with the Ioniq 5 or even any if the other hybrids.
There is just WAYYY too much voltage chilling in there, especially with the newer cars jumping up to 800 volts to be handled in a dealership shop setting, Hyundai would end up with at least a few dead techs. There is just too much that can go wrong actually tearing apart the separate inner packs, even with training, the flat rate pay almost every dealer pays their techs forces corners to be cut.
Also, there was recently a software update released for some of the Ioniq 5s due to a software(?) issue with the shifter coming out of park allowing a possible rollaway issue.
Edit to add the info from the technical service bulletin:
Description: This bulletin provides information related to the SCU (Shifter Control Unit) software
update for IONIQ 5(NE1) vehicles. This SCU update addresses a condition with the electronic parking
pawl actuator control. A voltage fluctuation may occur with the vehicle off and in the Park (P) position,
which could impact the command signal from the SCU to the parking actuator, resulting in momentary
disengagement of the parking pawl and potential vehicle rollaway.
Applicable Vehicles:
• Certain 2022MY IONIQ 5 Electric (NE1) produced from 10/04/2021 - 04/26/2022
Yep, I expect a letter soon about getting the car re-programed. I normally have it parked somewhere completely flat so it's not much of an issue for me, but I'll definitely be using the parking brake whenever there's the tiniest slope until I get that update. Shame they can't do it OTA
@@TechnologyConnextras It's a super quick update to do once you are able to get it into the shop, it takes under 10 minutes to complete. I agree on wishing it was able to be done OTA but i guess Hyundai just isn't there yet.
@@TechnologyConnextras Speaking as a mechanic, software failing to update is fairly common. You wouldn't want your car sitting in your garage dead and unable to turn on and drive because an update failed and everything is offline.
@@nukelauncher95 Speaking as a computer programmer, there is no excuse for NOT having a robust software update procedure. It's been a solved problem for decades at this point, car makers (except Tesla) just can't be bothered to do it.
@@AlexBesogonov I know Tesla owners who have had to have a technician come to their car to recover a failed update. One of those owners needed their car towed to a service center and have a master tech figure out how to fix it. Software updates in Teslas are usually pretty smart and will usually only update in the middle of the night when you're not likely to want to drive, but it's not perfect. Again, I know someone who just bought a brand new Model 3 and was inconvenienced one morning when his car gave him a message saying that he couldn't drive it until a software update was installed. OTA updates are great for infotainment and non essential stuff, but I wouldn't want them for drivetrain and saftey stuff.
I feel colour coded connectors or something could make it standardized and obvious (e.g. I have a green port on my car, so I'll use the green charger.
just do it like they do with combustion engine cars. They make it very clear what's diesel and what is gasoline.
just like the nutritional scales on UK food packages, rot-yellow-green (bad -ok -good)
@@sirBrouwer So, green for gas and black for diesel. Riiiiight?
No way that could go wrong! (regional differences in color coding, people with varying types of color blindness, narrow spectrum lighting at night messing with color perception, etc)
@@sirBrouwer and yet, people still manage to put the wrong fuel in their tank…
Maybe navigation/GPS systems that route you to EV charging stations could give an audible reminder to the driver of which stalls to use, based on the vehicle entered. For instance, a car that charges at
When I drove a diesel car, I would go crazy when I had to wait because someone picked the only pump that also had diesel. It drove me crazy. Like why would anyone do that? It serves no purpose. They are not gaining anything by picking that pump. Leave it alone unless it is the only pump left. Same is true for fast chargers. Problem is that people tend to be thoughtless.
Don't forget the possibility that the gasoline only pumps were busy before you arrived.
Yes, and that is really an issue, not only with cars but everywhere. People are so dull, that should change.
I have this problem all the time with my truck. It's so frustrating, especially when you watch the person pull in right before you and there were six other pumps available.
Imagine living in a place where not all pumps have diesel
@@MrTheMiguelox was my thought too :D :P
On the rural EV issue: My parents live near Goldthwaite, TX which is about as rural as it gets... and their EV6 is working great for them... They drive to Temple, TX several times a week and there overall average is about 110 miles of driving per day.
Yea, the 300+ range EVs, especially Ioniq 5, work just fine for most rural people.
Kudos to your folks for driving electric in a rural environment!
I'm hoping user education and better signage can help with the "charging etiquette" problem, but then I remember that some people think turning the thermostat to the extreme top of the range will make it get hot faster...
OMG! I worked with a bunch of those thermostat folks. We even had a supervisor who posted a small note next to the thermostat in the office she shared with several others on her shift and then still others on the shifts before and after her. Someone on the earlier shift would come into the room, find it a bit cool for their liking, and turn the thermostat all the way up. They would spend an hour doing reports, then leave. By the time the following shift would come in the room would be 80 degrees.
I've that heard that from so many people who I thought would know better.
My mother was even worse: she would set all the resistive baseboard heaters to be constantly on, refuse to allow anyone else to touch the thermostat, and then complain about the $3000 electric bill.
My partner is like that. I’ve explained to them, ad nauseum, that turning the thermostat up to an uncomfortably high temperature doesn’t make the anything happen faster. Doesn’t matter, they still do it. This is someone who was valedictorian in high school and summa cum laude in college.
As a new Bolt owner (like, two weeks ago new) the car and the material that comes with it are not upfront about what the maximum charging rate is. I can't help but feel like maybe the manufacturer doesn't want to indicate that the charging rate is limited.
When the Bolt first came out, chargers that went above 50kW barely existed at all. 350kW chargers being widely available is relatively new, and cars supporting those speeds is even newer. So 80% of Bolt drivers probably got their cars before it made any sense for GM to tell them this info.
That said, after a couple charges this becomes obvious, as the charger kiosk screen and your internal battery meter never show it going above 53-54 or so.
@@pinecone606 That's fair but mine is the new 2022 redesign. The different charging capacities are well established by now.
@@TheBabaloga I'm not trying to be a dick, but why did you buy a platform that's honestly so out of date already? Yeah it had a refresh but if they didn't increase charge speed....what did they upgrade?
@@ChunkyWaterisReal The 2022 model is considerably cheaper than previous models of Bolt. The price dropped from 36k to 31k for the lowest trim (not to mention that the lowest trim is actually more akin to a mid-level trim on most car models)
The next cheapest EV with over 200 miles of range is $38,000
@@TheBabaloga fair points good to know thanks!
This is the first video I turned on after giving a presentation to my master degree course on EV charging infrastructure, wherein I specifically listed you as a good introductory resource for how EV life is a different paradigm than gas pumping
I just wanted to let you know that your original video on the Chevy Volt was a huge reason why i bought mine. I got a 2012 for $7k and i couldn't be happier with it, so thank you for that. I really didn't think someone like me (a broke college kid living in an apartment) could ever own or operate an electric vehicle, but your video opened my eyes to what was out there.
Thanks for all your videos, I enjoy them all. My family are early EV adapters….2011 Volt bought new in 2011, 2017 Bolt EV again bought new in 17. The first couple times we road tripped the Bolt EV, there were no EA chargers, so 50 kW at the existing chargers at the time we’re considered fast and most DCFV were 25-35 kW. That was then and this is now, and anything under 100 kW is slow.
In regards to the maintenance problem with EA, apparently there is zero budget to maintain and repair broken chargers, even though investors are pouring in money for new installations. Apparently investors only look at the number of charge sites and growth rate, and ignore how many are working or broken. Obviously this needs to change. When they budget in for maintenance and repair, it may be a good job opportunity to be DCFC repair technicians.
A new study came out exposing their broken chargers.
I can't believe how many people I've discussed EVs with think they *_must_* go somewhere to recharge them, a lot like having to refuel at a gas station. None of them realized recharging at home overnight every night was a possibility. It's just such a lasting, old mindset. And juice at home is just 7.7¢/kWh here (4.5¢/kWh overnight if you opted for the time-of-use plan)
Though on the counterpoint...There are a good number of people who tout the "charging at home is the future" viewpoint who are making an assumption that everyone can actually charge at home....For people who live in high density urban environments with underground parking that is prohibitively expensive/bureaucratic to get charging infrastructure retrofitted... The ONLY SOLUTION is to charge somewhere else.
Now that's most likely not everyone you have talked to, some people really can't get into this new mindset.... But it's not the "none of them realized that...." as you claim. A lot of people know, but can't afford that luxury of convenience. It's actually kind of ironic that minimizing our carbon footprint with regards to housing, (at the moment) makes transportation so much worse than the convenience of urban sprawl.
Many neighborhoods don't have garages or even carports. My house doesn't have exterior outlets and running one over to the driveway area would be extremely difficult. Apartments, good luck. I usually park my car in the street because my driveway is small and there's no way I'm running an extension cord out the front door. People who park on the street can't easily charge. Point is, at home charging isn't available for many people. My office has four EV chargers and one day I counted 20 Teslas in the parking lot with all four chargers taken. I just bought a gas car because I'm not going to go sit in a parking lot for 30 minutes every few days when I can refuel my car in 3.
Very good point. It's a midwesterner thing where even single-family rentals with garages are common and [often] affordable. The people I have discussed this matter with all have garages and can relatively easily charge at home. However, I didn't even think of apartment complexes and street-parking-only settings. That was actually quite short-sighted of me.
@@skifree0 This is why it's important for governments to adopt "right to charge" policies, guaranteeing everyone a charging spot wherever they live.
I also hear a lot, "filling up only takes 5 minutes every couple weeks, so plugging in at home doesn't really sound more convenient." To which my response is: (a) Don't knock it 'till you try it, EV owners who charge at home swear by it; and (b) If an EV has ⅓ the range of your current car, you'd only need to plug in about 3 times as often as you fill up. So if you fill up every 2 weeks, you may only need to bother plugging in once or twice a week. Even more convenient than every night.
All this business about chargers etc...I don't own an electric vehicle, but isn't some of it like pulling into a parking spot between two poorly parked cars? You find yourself having to park less-than-optimally, the other cars leave, and then someone pulls up next to your now oddly parked car and makes a comment about your crappy parking job...not knowing how your car came to be parked that way to begin with (because of others who are now no longer there)? Just wondering...
Thanks for the dive into EV stuff. I would have gotten an electric car when I needed a car 5 months ago, but unfortunately at the moment at-home charging is not feasible (on-street parking only), so ultimately decided against it, stuck with a hybrid. But still nice to know all this stuff for the future!
Similarly here, except my issue was also financial, so I had to go with a used ICE car, unfortunately. But I sincerely hope that's the last ICE car I ever have to buy, so learning these things is good!
I leased an EV for 2 years from Mercedes … it was boring to drive. I was happy to go back to a manual shift gasoline car. (Vrrrrm.)
6:30 Your story about charger etiquette is very similar to how it's inconsiderate for people to use the end-pumps at gas stations to fuel their gasoline cars if there's other pumps available, because usually those are the ones that are also diesel (so larger trucks/trailers can get in/out easier) -- Sure it doesn't make a difference for a gasoline car, but now that lawn service guy with a diesel truck has to wait for you to finish before he can get in there with his trailer behind him.
Or a customer with a diesel car (Mercedes, Chevy Cruze, Volkswagen)
I just completed a 6,000 mile US road trip in my 2021 Model 3 SR+
Over 13 days of driving (July 10 through July 31, 2022, with time in Kentucky) from Sacramento CA to Louisville KY and back (with numerous side trips), I drove nearly half what I drive in a year.
The final analysis: Wow. This is definitely a road warrior vehicle, despite so-called “conventional wisdom.”
I am still plugging in metrics and numbers, but I estimate about 60 charging stops. In all those stops, I only had ONE 5 minute wait, at Glenwood Springs, CO. One. 5 minutes. I’ve waited longer in a grocery store line.
I drove through and charged in major cities (LA, Amarillo, OK City, Little Rock, Memphis, Nashville, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Salt Lake City) and countless small towns and wide spots in the road. Typically, I was either the only one there or one of two Teslas. My typical stop was 20-25 minutes. Enough time to have a short walk about, use the bathroom, grab a bottle of water, and then get back on the road (the breaks, and auto pilot, assured I’d be rested and relaxed after hours of travel).
Weekdays, weekends, rush hour, nighttime, huge supercharger (50+) or small (4), interstate or blue highway… I drove and charged through them all. No cherry picking.
~60 superchargers. 6,000 miles. 13 days of driving. In July 2022. One wait. 5 minutes.
I can’t speak for others. But a complete success in my book.
It will always be a problem how many times have you walked into 3 urinal place and seen someone alone using the middle.
as a female, not so often. 😉
@@isobellabrett you gotta try that 😉
Here in Norway 50 kW chargers are still extremely common. 150 kW are getting more plentiful, but they're still surprisingly rare. Chargers exceeding 150 kW are much rarer, though part of the problem is that maps don't really differentiate very well either. Still, most people don't know how fast they charge, and they don't know what chargers to use. Every time I've stopped at 150 kW chargers there have been cars that can't charge nearly fast enough to make sense there, even if a 50 kW is literally a few meters away.
Sometimes I politely inform them of their car's capability versus the charger. Usually I don't care enough tbh.
I would assume that like with the appropriate tire pressure, the car's charging capability should be labeled somewhere on the car, so that any idiot renting or owning or borrowing the car still knows how to be somewhat less of an idiot.
Also, I'm totally not saying I'm an idiot! Though, I estimate the chances around 87% that I will be charging the car, getting myself a snack, and when I open my car door I notice the sticker that says I'm being an idiot and I should be charging on the charger next to where I am and I'd be like, ooooohhhhh, well that was dumb :p Totally not an idiot :p
If I inconvenienced anyone my IQ would shoot up, but I live in somewhat of a rural area and I just don't learn things I have no motivation to learn until I have the motivation. After watching this video, I'd definitely check every time, even if it's just to laugh at the placing of the labeling XD Putting the sticker _under_ the cable? XD ROFL Why not put it on the back so everyone will be like me, coming out of the store and being like, oh, LOL, that was dumb :p
I wonder if EV charging firms needs to adopt tiered pricing/labeling for their dispensers and have multiple choices per dispenser. Instead of premium gas (93 octane), you'd have premium charging (350 volts).
They do often here in the UK. You'll see fast, rapid, and ultra rapid prices listed. They correspond to 50, 150 and 350 chargers.
@@m1geo Many tightwads charging their high charge rate vehicles on the lower tariff? They'll probably be wearing tartan!
@@m1geo Is it per charger, or per charge? So if you charge @350 you pay more, but if you charge @150 in a 350 capable charger, you pay for 150? Otherwise, what if the 350 is the only available charger? There is no easy analogue to octane ratings.
@@mariusvanc I think what is being suggested is that if you use the 350 you pay more per kwh than if you used the 150. It makes sense because that equipment is inherently more expensive. It would be a financial incentive to people with slower charging cars to use the correct charger and it could also encourage people who have a faster charging car to use the cheaper alternative (and better for their battery) as well if they're not in a hurry. Like for instance stopped to eat lunch and they're charging at the same time. They don't need to be done in 10 minutes and may just leave their car in the bay anyway even if they did use the faster charger.
I grew up in a similar rural location to your parents. I remember as a kid with our crapy cars we would have to make sure that we had at least 1/4 tank of before going home or we might not have enough gas to get home and then back to the gas station. Even today I have anxiety about getting under that 1/4 tank mark - and on my current car that can be about a hundred miles of range. It is going to take time to change this mindset.
I have a 25yr old car and live 40km (~25mi) from nearest petrol station. I have that same paranoia, even having just done a 700km (~430mi) trip and used less than a full tank...
I have a 2011 Chevy Volt with 200,000+ miles on it :) It still runs really well, and I get about ~30 miles per charge. The 2011 Gen 1s only every really had ~35 so it's still working pretty well IMO!
I have 2012 with 156k milles running like new, still get 37+ miles per charge on average
@@gsabic amazing. And we basically have "new" engines still :)
@@hckymanr I still have the factory brake pads
Seems like the etiquette problem can easily be solved with software. If you charge at 150 on a 350 and a 150 is open (and not broken) the charger should know and tell you 150 charging is not available on the 350 charger and to moved to the 150 station XXX.
If the Ioniq5s battery is cold, it may not charge at more than 150 kW either. At least in the beginning. The station has no idea whether the car will suddenly demand more power or not.
@@EVPaddy I think they're saying simple vehicle recognition. While a Ioniq 5 can, situationally, be limited under 150kw, a Bolt will *never* be able to make full use of a 350kw unit.
@@Joesolo13 but it’s not as if the car would identify itself. Well there’s a mac address which some providers use to identify the user, but that’s not very secure and doesn’t tell you what car it is.
I think people are just plugging into whichever machine has the biggest number on it they either don't know that their car can't use it or think that this will help their car charge faster
Anyone who owns a diesel should be able to empathize with the charging etiquette problem. I've had it happen a few times were the diesel pump (which in this case also has a gasoline nozzle) is taken by a non-diesel vehicle and I had to wait a few minutes for them to finish.
I've done this. Never even thought about it. I'll try to pay more attention to whether I'm taking up the only diesel pump.
Can't empathize. I live in a country where diesel / gasoline car ownership is about 50/50, so every single pump at every gas station offers both.
@@calebmauer1751 maybe you're right, or maybe i'm an emotionless android who let a few too many words slip
Love hearing about your experience with the Volt and Bolt in the Midwest. My wife and I currently own a 2013 Volt and 2017 Bolt in Eastern Iowa. Apparently it's a cool combo 😁. Keep you the great videos with the different topics!
I've had a Nissan Leaf (2nd Gen) for 8 years in a rural setting. As you said, no issue because we charge to full at home. Battery still at 100% capacity after 8 years and 50k+ miles.
how did you have a 2nd gen leaf for 8 years when the 2nd gen leaf only came out 5 years ago?
@@jeremykeaton274 i mis-spoke. It is a second revision of the first generation; where the battery pack went up to 24KWh and the heater got changed to a heat pump. You're right the actuak second gen wasn't until 2017. Back when I bought mine (in 2014) it was being referred to like a second generation and this stuck in my head. But obviously it's mostly the same car as the original with just some updates and not a whole new generation.
@@CheddarKungPao Gotcha, thanks for the explanation!
I just finished up an 1800 mile bolt EV roadtrip. I helped let a new ev6 driver about the charging station differences because as you can imagine them choosing 150kw is equally detrimental to throughput. It's definitely an easier sell than the inverse. ALSO I did encounter a stop that had the charger output labeled on the pavement in front in massive letters. That was super cool.
I think a colour code for charging rates, with colour bands on your car socket end, might help make things simpler. Such as how diesel was colour coded black or yellow, leaded was red, unleaded was green (Here in the UK at any rate).
So for example 50kW could be Green, 150kW yellow, 350kW red. Then if your car takes 350kW it would have a green/yellow/red stripe. But if it was 150kW max it would only have yellow and green.
I just got my Bolt's battery replaced this week yay.
Now to find the time to do a short road trip to test/confirm the increased range.
Addendum: I went to the Spradley Chevy in Pueblo CO for my battery swap. They're by far the most knowledgeable and helpful dealership of the 5 that I've dealt with.
I went to 3 in/around Denver, 2 had no clue at all and were useless. The third was who I was gonna go with, they weren't awesome, but at least they knew some.
Then I had to move south for work and the dealership in Canon City was awful, while the Spradley was great.
Got mine done in April. No issues. The dealer made sure it changed above 80%.
I made a comment last year saying, "we need a charging standard." What I mean by that is we need to make the EV experience to be like the ICE experience; you pull into a station, plug into a charger, and it works seamlessly with your car. No one comes over and says, "hey, you're using a charger that can work above your battery charging capacity, so move". All batteries should have the same charging profile, and all charging units, plus the cars that use them, should have the same plug standard. Finally, no membership accounts are required, only a payment method. Easy, fast range extension is the standard for ICE car users. This should be the top priority for the EV community. Otherwise, they will fail.
The plug standard already exists and has for years, tesla's the only remaining holdout, and only outside europe where they've been forced out of it
@@Joesolo13 Also they announced that new stations moving forward will be unlocked for any compatible vehicle, not just Teslas.
Charging etiquette just feels like something that can be addressed with their apps, we all know people can suck and won't care so the operators could easily force the issue. You activate the charger via an app, just change it so you activate before parking up and it tells you what stall to park at and it's ready for you when you insert the plug. You can just tell it your car model and it won't allocate the 350kW charger unless it's the only one available. Or a prompt when it negotiates to start charging to say hey, you should park on another less powerful charger.
Would also be useful to creat a virtual queue so I don't have to sit at the charger if it's in use. Let me reserve it and when it becomes available ping me to say I can come back and use it and it will be available for 5 minutes. I won't go far in this time knowing I have a window to return but I also don't just look like a weirdo hanging out in a car park. Also good to know if I'm next or there's 4 others and maybe I should carry on to the next charger.
ChargePoint has a waiting queue like this
The cables for fast charging could be more expensive per kw, like premium gas. If you put a price difference (time is money) the issue will solve itself
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe just 1-2% or something to get people to comply.
Or just charge for the charger's opportunity cost. Add an additional per-minute fee when the car is substantially below maximum wattage. Relying on education or shame to enforce social etiquette has never worked reliably.
taxing the electric would solve global warming, instead of giving them free charges and rebates
In Australia one of the fast charging networks sets a 50% higher price for 350kW charging than their 50kW chargers.
It might also help push people toward being gentler on their batteries, only using the super-fast charging when they really need it, thus making the batteries last longer.
Using the 350 over the 150 reminds me of your thermostat video. A high thermostat setting will heat the house faster than a lower setting. It is the same with plugging in to the higher rated charger to charge their vehicle faster. After all, most probably do not know how fast their car will charge and they believe that a 350W will charge faster than 150W.
To be fair, most people would probably think 350W would charge faster than 150kW ;-)
I appreciate these videos you make on EVs. I'm considering getting one myself and it's been pretty reassuring to hear your explanations. I will admit, things like range did scare me a little until I figured out the furthest distance I personally was going to need to travel for things in my tiny country (Costa Rica) is about 90 miles, and they've done a pretty good job about installing chargers everywhere here. I look forward to your glossary video as I feel I'm going to need all the help I can get as I jump into getting my first car, used, and the newest type of automobile,,I'm afraid I've made a lot of homework for myself. 😅
I found many people arguing about range (and I did so myself) always having a vacation trip or a larger raod trip in mind, while actually most people around here (Germany) only commute within a 20 to 25 km range. Most even less, some more than that. Looking at the nominal ranges of the currently available and common EVs, most would get alon well with charging once per week. I think Mini advertised the Mini EV here once, stating that the range statistically would be sufficient for I think 95 % of people using a car to get to work.
Charging however here is still what makes things complicated. You see more and more charging stations popping up. And I think especially going across Germany you could easily plan hopping from chrager to charger, although, same as Alec described, not many vehicles out there taking a 350 kW charge. Next issue, each car brand seems to invest into a different charging network, plus the energy companies. so either you get yourself half a dozen charging cards or apps for some of which you really only could get the lowest prices if you pay a monthly subscription, fast charging could easily go up from something like 30 cent per kWh to over 80 cent, making it about as expensive as driving a Diesel.
Charging at home works for many, but also for very many not. In my case my parking space is detached from the house with the street in between, no garage as well, and no electricity. (Most of our houses are way different than the common American detached house with hughe garage attached and a gigantuan driveway. Some houses here have backyards smaller than those driveways or you could fit the whole house on the driveway. It is a bit more crowded here.) Or a coworker lives in a multi story apartement building, built just after the war. Not many people hat cars back then, so not many buildings had parking lots. He has street parking only. Even if he would mount a charging station to the building, he would not be guaranteed the parking spot in front of the wallbox and he couldn´t even have the cable laying across the walkway.
Besides that, due to all the supply chain issues, here you currently cannot even order some of the EV models anymore and production up into next year is sold already.
To put it friendly, yeah, there definitely is room for improvement.
@@alexanderkupke920 Range isn't only about being able to cover one commute. Some people want to go several days without having to charge. For those people, the more range the better. For example, I can charge at home, but my car comes with three years of free DC fast charging, so if I charge at home I have to pay the energy. I'd rather go to the Electrify America station for free charging, but the less often I have to go, the better.
@@suserman7775 Thats right, and thats what I menat, with an average commute, it would be sufficient to charge once a week. And some do that. But at least in the discussions what you often here is something like, oh well then I will spend another hour just for taking a break for charging if I have to drive to Munich, that sucks. Not sure what they do, but from here that is a drive where at least I would take at least one 20 to 30 mintue break anyways (which depending on the vehicle actually would be sufficient to get there starting with a full charged car, recharging once and having to recharge next when I arrive). So not a big deal. It seems more to be a slight convenience argument for some people with an unhelathy driving habbit when it comes to long distances anyways. Oh not to mention if there is no limit they want to go 180 to 200 kph as well, instead of "crawling" down the road at 130 kph. To be honest, with my current Diesel I rarely go faster than 130 anyways (if there isn´t a lower limit, a construction site or just too much traffic) as that seems to be the most economical speed to just cruise along.
Charging her on the other hand is a mess. Volkswagen has their own charging network (I think WeCharge), ADAC (the German version of AAA) has a card, some energy companies have one, there is one (Ionity I think) which especially seems to be interesting for fast charging. But with either the Volkswagen or ADAC subscription you cannot use any of the Ionity chargers, or you can use them, but a lot more expensive than with an Ionity subscription etc. etc. So to get best prices, you have to get a number of subscriptions or route planning gets really complicated, as of course on the resting areas at the autobahn, you will usually only find one type or the other.
You've sent me down a rabbit-hole I never expected. After further research, I have financial reason to convert to an ev (bolt).
Thank you for your presentations. You are humbly convincing in odd and everyday helpful info. You are changing the world one viewer at a time. ;)
LOL! Etiquette?! Even if they know...they don't care.
Like a Prius using the island with Diesel when there are many gasoline-only islands open...just because it is at the end of the rows.
Been there too many times to count.
Great content as usual.
"No way to know that it was dead."
And that's one of the problems with EA. The car should know. The nav should tell you not only what's online by how many are in use.
I mean... I think at this point it's a "nice to have" feature but especially if you're using a network like EA, well, you don't have much of a choice of which ones to stop at. In the long run I hope this is completely obsolete as a concept and that we will just know there are plenty of chargers at most highway exists. Honestly I'm surprised there's no signage for them along the roads - that would be useful!
The Teslas tell you on their live maps. This should be standard for everyone.
@panjipay Some people really want this feature built in to the car. I see it as only marginally useful and as reliability and availability of chargers improves I expect it to be a rather moot point.
@@TechnologyConnextras it really should be on the car, how can you plan a route when you can't trust you're going to be able to fuel up? It should be totally transparent to the end user, you never know when you may be on a time sensitive journey and that time wasted looking for a plug changes your day.
@@panjipay Tesla doesn’t tell you if an individual charger doesn’t work, in the car or otherwise, unless you plug into it and it doesn’t work. The in car nav will tell you how many stations are available at a site, but not if an individual station is broken.
8:40 I imagine there’s probably also people who plug in to the 350 because the number is bigger so they think it’ll charge them faster, even if their car doesn’t work like that
to be fair, do you know off the top of your head how many watts of charging your phone supports? I am a pretty tech-savvy person and I certainly don't know mine at least. I think the best we can expect of most people is a vague sense of "this thing is pretty basic", "this uses one of those newfangled fast-charging protocols", or "this is cutting edge and probably take anything"
@@spambot7110 I don’t know that this is a fair comparison. The charging speed of a phone is not very important. I’m not saying it’s UNimportant, but it’s not a huge concern, if at all for most people. Dissimilarly, DC charging speeds are important to every consumer if EVs. I work in PR at a DTC EV company, and every single person I have met in a business setting has asked me how fast our cars charge.
@@spambot7110 Wouldn't be hard to put it on the dashboard though, especially with how many are digital. Have it display the current charging wattage whenever it's plugged in so people can see.
We just did our first road trip in our Bolt from Akron, OH to Chicago this past weekend. I freely admit that I wasn't aware that the car would charge the same at either charger. My etiquette thinking at the first stop on the Turnpike was "There's only one 150kwh charger, and it is the only one with ChaDeMo, so I will leave it open for the poor sap with a Leaf who HAS to use that charger."
Then I noticed that the car was only sucking in 50kwh or so, so for the rest of the trip, I used the 150 chargers. Oddly, there were plenty of 150kwh chargers everywhere else so I didn't have to feel bad for the Leaf guys.
@@ratscabies pedantic note: 150kw, not 150kwh. kwh is a unit of energy, kw is a unit of power. energy is how much water is in your bucket, power is how fast the hose is filling it.
(the more general way to put it would be, energy is a measure of work, power is a measure of rate of work. but the bucket analogy is probably clearer in this specific situation)
Re: the charging station etiquette
It CAN be fixed. By the stations being uniform. This really isn't a people-problem. Stations need better equipment, better power feeds, and better maintenance.
Or just refuse charging on a higher charger when others are available, thought that's what the app was for
It's definitely at least somewhat a people problem considering it's an issue that could be helped a lot just by people using the chargers that suit their vehicle. The majority of the resources of the charging companies need to be allocated to increasing the number of chargers as well as maintaining the ones that are already up and running. Spending resources on upgrading 150kw chargers to 350s isn't what's important right now. There should be signs or a message on the screen telling people with slower charging cars to use the 150 chargers when possible.
Nope, the Problem is much more complex, as its presented in the Video. For a 400V-based car, the 150ies are NOT the same as a 350ie, because of the 200A-limit, which reduces our bad charging speed from below 200kW, to catastrophic below 70kW. The world is more complex, than a RUclipsr will make you think of...
Wow! You're right this is Connextras! I didn't even notice! I was just happy to see that you uploaded something new, if it means anything to you, your video is the first that I'm watching from my subscriptions!
The charging rate issue feels similar to when I'm driving my (small) diesel truck and people have pulled up to the only combination gas/diesel pumps at the station just because they're more convenient to get to.
Sometimes it's not even convenience but just bad luck. It doesn't help when people take their time leaving. I had one guy wait until he was all done fueling to pull out the wiper thing and start giving his windows a thorough cleaning. Another time, a lady just sat in her car for five minutes.
Bolt owner here, there's actually no winning when it comes to EAs network. Either we take up a 350KW or we take up the 150KW, which has the only CHADEMO plug. I just always park in the 350KW because, like you said, you only briefly get above 150kw anyways, very little time is added to your trip, and I tend to see more Nissan Leafs on the road than anything that can take advantage of 350KW anyways.
If it's a choice between the 150 with a chademo and a 350, definitely agree for now. But even the 4 stall ones usually have a 150 w/o chademo too.
Re: getting folks to try EVs... in the UK, Renault's "loaner" cars when yours is being serviced by them are now EVs, so you get to try out an EV for a few days while your ICE car is undergoing some maintenance that an EV probably wouldn't need in the first place.
EVs still have fluids & filters that need regular maintenance every 3 years or 100,000 miles (depends on the fluid)
Thanks for pointing out the tiny labels, it is a problem. By the time I've pulled up close enough to read them I'm already committed to my choice of parking spots. They could solve the problem by just making the 350kW chargers like 1 cent more per kWh and advertise that conspicuously I think the problem will fix itself. Sort of like premium gas.
I discovered this on my first long distance trip with my Kona. I saw the 350 and went for it not knowing that the car can only pull 70… when I realized it, though, I stuck to 150s after that. Hopefully this video makes its way to all new EV owners.
They could "encourage" etiquette with pricing. Might not be easy .. and could still be overlooked by people. Then again, when ev drivers treat charging space at work as privileged parking be spaces (without charging), I don't have high hopes that any solution requiring etiquette will scale.
Love my 2013 Volt. Still getting 4mi/kw on warm weather currently.
4 mi/kWh is not bad and is well in line with the efficiency ratings of most electric cars, but please remember that kW is a unit of the instantaneous power your vehicle uses to drive. On the other hand, kWh is a unit of the electrical energy the battery is capable of storing.
It is not charger etiquette, it's DRIVER etiquette. After 100 years of ICE driving, people still go in and shop after filling up with gas and leave their auto sitting at the pump instead of moving it to a parking space so other customers have to wait until they are finished with what ever they are doing and finally move their car!
I had a jackass with a concrete truck blocking two of the 4 pumps at my little local station last week. He didn't even buy gas, he was buying a burrito.
Different charge level "pumps" could have been made different colours like iCE fuel pumps are. Not necessarily the whole unit but just the connector handle could be coloured differently to be able to know which output levels are available from a distance.
Liquid fuel pumps already do this so you can spot the difference between diesel and petrol as you drive into the station.
Where I live most EV owners know the the difference between a 150 and 50kW charger as we have pricing by the minute and by kWh, the faster the charger the higher the price so plugging in a 50kW car into a 150kW charger will make for a large bill. Ideally pricing should be only by kWh and some operators have a higher kWh price on high power chargers.
I've always hated time based pricing for exactly this reason, since it punishes slower charging cars - but in stations with multiple charging speed options this might actually be the best way to get people motivated to use the slowest charger that their car can max out on.
You are paying for the convenience of being able to get on your way faster.
Pizza John shirt eh!
Not sure if it's a thing (I don't have an EV, and I don't live in the US), but grocery stores should totally have a bank of EV chargers. It's a pretty good incentive system. You can just charge your EV whilst you shop, and naturally the lure of a convenient place to charge your EV and have a place to shop for essentials is good passive advertising for the grocery store. I wonder if malls also do this, or plan to do this? Could also incentivize parking a bit further from right in front of the business. They could have the EV charging stations a bit more out of the way (not too inconvenient, just not prime spots), reducing some congestion.
Our local grocery store has a couple of chargers. They are at the far end of the car park and deliver 7Kw, so never get used :(. 50Kw ones would be great. I'm also a big fan of the idea that pubs that happen to be nearish to the motorway network should have 50Kw chargers, because I'd much rather stop for a pub lunch that at a motorway services.
Cordele, GA is pronounced kor'DE'yal :P Surprising they have fast chargers there, honestly.
One thing that might be interesting in the future could be like a sort of virtual "valet" that directs your vehicle to an appropriate charger for a particular station, taking into account what's in-use. Granted, companies already have a hard enough time standardizing on things, but could also be part of a more unified charger network locator/finder database/service that is maintained by an industry consortium, with data available for apps and websites to use freely.
Didn’t realize Georgia was french
Came to the comments to see if anyone corrected the pronunciation (I grew up less than 50 mi from there), so thanks! I'm kinda not surprised they have fast chargers -- I mean, they have a Titan I missile by the interstate. It just begs people to stop there in particular.
The original recall was through mid-2019 model year, when battery production switched from Korea to the US. Then there was a fire in a 2020 model, IIRC, so they expanded the recall to _ALL_ Bolts, 2017-2022. I had a 2019, produced before that cutoff. The initial recall procedure, after the software fix turned out to be insufficient, sounded like they were going to replace only defective modules inside the pack, meaning they had to have a way to _determine_ which modules were defective. I had no faith in their ability to reliably do that, so I traded my 2019 in for a 2022 EUV. Sixteen days later, the above-mentioned recall of all Bolts was announced.
Good timing! How do you like the EUV?
My Kona is affected as well. Just got an appointment on the 30th to have the battery changed. Last time is brought it in for maintenance they told me 'btw, your battery is fine'. I was a bit perplexed because I knew I was in the affected time frame, but Hyunday had put in some checks in the BMS and so I thought maybe they can now find not-affected cars. But in the end… I guess they're still changing all of them.
Pizza John!
My brother has a Bolt EUV. I had no idea that the charges charged differently before your last video. Neither did he. This will be a problem going forward. Getting this info out there will be difficult. It will have to be marked or charged like how gas stations work with gas levels.
I am convinced the etiquette part of this discussion will not be on most owners’ minds and will generally be limited to EV enthusiasts. I’ve had maybe a dozen instances over the past decade where I’ve waited for a diesel pump (without a diesel island) with or without a trailer in tow where there are many available gasoline pumps, and two gasoline car owners are sometimes just getting started with the payment process on the only two end diesel/gasoline combination pumps. I’m not counting a busy station as that’s understandable; the annoyance is when it could be handled smarter with a few seconds of arrival observation by others. Further, if I don’t have a trailer hooked up, for etiquette reasons I’d rather not take a pump at a diesel island where there is also diesel in the passenger cars pump area intended for pickups (not always the case), then I’m the one with a semi-truck waiting behind me. I daily drive a GTDI and am looking forward to more EV options as the technology makes its way into more average looking sedans to just blend in, I am not a fan of the (futuristic) body styles.
Thanks for talking about this. I'm one of those people where 1000+ mile drives is important for selection of vehicle, and hearing the inconveniences of long distance EV travel makes the concept far more real to me than pure EV hagiography
How do you know if you are a bad road trip companion? Your guest flies home. lol.
:'( your right
Regarding the etiquette, it's like diesel at gas stations that combine the diesel with gas on a couple of the pumps... Non-diesel drivers don't pay attention and don't think about using a gas-only pump when multiple are available, making the diesel people unnecessarily wait. Also, just wait until the big 3 start selling more electric trucks each year than the total of all other modern electric cars... Ever. It'll be like the lines at the hydrogen stations with all the press Mirais lol.
Probably not actually. I forsee most modernized gas stations transitioning to being half EV charging over the next 15 years or so to be honest.
Geez, boo-hoo you have to wait a few minutes to fill with diesel.
Why is all of this so interesting? I don't even care about any of it... yet somehow I'm interested and all of it... you rock!
Could do a few things to solve the KWh issue. 1. Make all the EVSCs the same output. 2. Colour Code by Type, e.g Green for Eco (150kwh), Red for Premium (350kwh). 3. Charge a convenience fee for using a slow charge car in a high speed charger. Have the EVSC auto remove the charge if the car is high speed charge capable, or could be removed if you show that the regular chargers were inoperative. Relying on etiquette will never work as there's too many of "those people" out there, so gaming the system to deincentivise inefficient use would be a good method.
I honestly think it's a standards problem. I mean if I can plug my car to that thing, it's OK with me. I mean, here, a diesel pump won't interface with a gasoline car, but in EVs, with a satandard connection, it's the charging station who should be able to route the needed power to the right car. I'm not saying that that's the kind of tech we have, no, but that's how I think it should work. Maybe the tech isn't up to that standard yet, but we can make it.
You seem to misunderstand. The standardization is important. And no charger can just "decide" to be stronger, the 350kw ones are much more expensive to boot so it makes little sense to make all of them that powerful when many, many cars cannot fully use it's power.
Honestly, road trips of that length, I've had an equivalent incidence of some kind of problem finding a gas station when I needed one as this trip had with chargers. Gas pumps are sometimes broken too, etc. Really shows a comparison that is at worst no worse in the experience.
It really depends upon where you are. In some areas there are tons of chargers and even if you are dangerously low on charge you can go to another charger, and every block has a gas station. In rural areas it can be 30+ miles to a gas station, and no public chargers at all. The public chargers in America are pretty crappy though. A car review site I watch did a tour of like 6 to 8 electrify america sites within their location and a good 1/3 were dead, didn't process the payment, or needed a phone call to the company to work.
That was maybe a year ago, but that's horrible for public acceptance.
I regularly take very long trips and motorcycle trips requiring frequent fillups and finding dead gas pumps is rare, which is why I would have a huge fear taking an EV on a road trip. I still want to get one, but I'd personally leave it at home if I had to go anywhere I hadn't familiarized myself with yet, or if I had to cross some bad cities I wouldn't want to be forced to stop in.
@@volvo09 I-40 from Needles to Barstow. I don't think there is a single gas station between them. (about 140 miles)
You had the modern version of "somebody parked their gasoline car at the only diesel pump at this gas station" experience
One thing I note is a flaw of almost all charging stations is that there is no canopy over stations, that can be annoying if rain, snow, hot/sunny weather. They could have canopies using solar panels for lighting under them.
I usually walk a few hundred feet to a restaurant for lunch while I charge. Or I can sit in the car and catch up on texts and whatnot. Either way, the elements aren't a big deal. But I do think a station with a canopy would attract more people than one without.
Nice Pizza John t-shirt.
I would go for an EV as my next car, except they're at least double the price of the equivalent petrol car (I got my top spec C3 Aircross at 3 years old for £11k last year. A 3 year old electric Golf is about £23k atm (and of course its smaller than a c3 aircross)). Hybrids are just as expensive, if not more so. Plus, my girlfriend lives in a block of flats with only on-street parking, so there's no chance of getting the landlord to fit a charging point and no way of running a cable from the flat down 2 floors and out the door to the car. Plus, when I'm driving long distance (the majority of my mileage at the moment), I only like to stop for about 15 minutes every 100 miles (so every hour and a half, or less frequently), so a 40 mile range would be absolutely useless for me.
You realize the 40 mile range is in a more than decade old _hybrid_ right?
Use electric to go get groceries or go to the gym.
When you need to travel further the petrol engine kicks in and you just keep driving.
No one seems to mention they have problems with this in their Prius.
8:00 Faster charger spots should charge more per minute, in addition to per kW. That per minute surcharge should be posted prominently above the charger space.
It seems like a possible improvement would be for the charger itself, when it negotiates the charge rate and realizes the EV connected can't use its maximum capabilities, it should also check the other nearby chargers and if any are open, warn the driver and ask them to relocate or require some sort of feedback. One of those options would be along the lines of, "I tried the other charger but it didn't work" which would trigger a maintenance routine to get it repaired.
i saw a video or read an article about a charge station who do just that, negotiate the available plugs between the cars cue. you arrive at the station, identify yourself,select the charge you want and it assigns a plug to you, and only that plug will charge your vehicle, the rest will not start the charge.
It was a time ago, about one of those charge companies who sprung across all cities like crazy. or may i say on of those state green subsidies' collection companies.
This sounds like a job for an electrical engineer, not a social engineer. There's a big contactor being engaged between the charger and the dispenser anyway. Add some more so the dispenser can negotiate which charger to connect to the car. This could also conceal failures for a while, with non-op chargers triggering a service call before the drivers are affected.
@@tactileslut i also remember you could make the reservation based on your app GPS trip route.
The charge App knows your ETA, and you could make the charge reservation based on real time and as it knows the destinations and needs of the users it can manage the waiting times and even split the charges to reduce the waiting "here" and make the longer charge on the next wich will have no waiting .
as im remembering, im pretty sure it was a concept demonstration.Maybe someones idea still not implemented or similar. It sounds like a shark tank sale demo.
Thanks for your remark about charging etiquette when it comes to the 350kWh dispensers. I drive a BMW i3 (with Range Extender) and so on my upcoming road trip from Denver to Salt Lake City, I'll be sure to try using the lower capacity dispensers. That is something I wasn't even aware of and on my last road trip, I just picked the first dispenser that was available. I think the limit is 50KWh for the i3.
There's an easy way to incentivize users to not hog the fast chargers unnecessarily and I've already seen some charger groups do it in Europe: Make the 350kW charging more expensive than the 150kW. People will try to use the less expensive one when they can.
All they need to do is increase the price of 350kW charger by a very small margin and the situation will get atleast 50% better without even a single lesson on EV charging etiquette.
It actually won't since people have no clue what kind of charging station they should pick.
You'd basically shuffle all those people to slower chargers even the people that would benefit from a 350kw station people barely even know how their gas car works that's not going to change anytime soon
I'm very nervous about the battery replacement, I had some SEVERE rat damage that bricked my car for 3 months while I waited for the replacement part to come out of shipping limbo, and those three months were agonizing, living a 45 minute drive from everything. I really hope when my number comes up on the battery replacement, it won't take long.
Oh, yeah -- being the first one to have some major warranty work done can be nerve wracking. My wife's 2012 VW TDI Sportwagen was the first TDI that our local VW dealer did when the VW Dieselgate emissions fix was finally offered. Took 'em a week to get it done. LOL. But no issues once we got it back, and we had a loaner the whole time, so no biggie in the long run. But, still, it's kind of interesting being the first -- you spend a good deal of time wondering if something will go wrong, and don't *quite* trust the car for a bit.
Not just warrantee work. I got a VW main dealer to change the cambelt on my Golf and it fell off after 17 miles. It took them three weeks to sort that out (at VWs expense).
My gf's brother let us borrow his Polestar 2 for a recent road trip up to Des Moines. Our stop on the way up was behind a DQ in a small town. It had two DC and one AC station. No problems on the way up, but on the way back. We stopped a little further south than the way up to charge. One of the DC stations was down, the second would not charge the car at all. Ended up having to use the AC and spend a long time in the gas station just to give us enough charge to make it back with 10%. Before the trip she was considering switching to an EV. Now she's waiting until we have more locations to charge and more stations at those locations.
In the UK our license plates are fairly well standardised so we have ANPR which is Automatic Number Plate Recognition (No idea how common that is in the US) Over here it's basically used to charge you if you park somewhere and don't pay the fee, or for other types of authorisation in bus lanes, speed cameras, secured entrances etc. The point being that because 1 car has 1 'license' plate, and that plate is registered in a government database with information about the vehicle, you can usually enter information online and get back what the make and model of the car is. Hopefully in the future, 'recharge stations' will get smarter and have automation upon entry that reads the plate, knows what your car is therefore capable of, and automatically leads you down the 'green road' if you can only charge up to 150kw to those stalls, or a 'red road' if you have more kw capability to those stalls instead.
I don't know what EA payment infrastructure is like but here in Ireland the the higher power chargers cost more regardless of how much you can draw, so if its the same there telling someone, hey that one costs you more might come across more positively.
That's not true in Ireland - you pay the same amount for 50 kW chargers as you do for 150 kW. We're talking about different fast chargers here, not fast vs. slow (AC destination chargers).
@@AaronSmart.online also did you used to work in S3? Think I used to work with you. :)
@@AaronSmart.online I actually posted 2 comments but the second appears not to have gone through, perhaps because i included a link to the ESB website.
I might be wrong as I have never actually used a charger higher than 50kw but according to the esb website there is 3 different prices. One for 22kw chargers, one for 50kw and one for 50-350kw chargers.
Oh hey, you had an issue in Bowling Green too? So did I, as in I lived there for three years.
On the topic of educating people though, the issue is only going to get worse. People don't know what their car can do, assuming they "need the fastest", which is fine when it comes to gas because nobody cares if you get 93 octane, but charging is going to be a huge problem when the majority of the country has no brain.
I’ve charged there a couple of times, both times there were down units
We live rural, nearest Dollar general is 10 miles, Walmart is 15 miles. Our daily driver is a 2015 Mercedes B-Class Electric Drive. (Only produced in 2014-2017, has Tesla motor, battery system and charging/control system. Will go as far as 125 miles on a charge if you are judicious with the speed.) At 11 cents a kwh, our normal charge is 6 hours or less for about $6.00. We have had it for about 3 years and love it. (For long trips we use our F-250 long wheelbase crew cab.)
I owned a used 2012 Nissan Leaf. I bought it in 2013. We have free level 2 charges and one chademo DC fast charger at work which I used several times with my Leaf until the DC fast charger went offline never to work again. I drove the Leaf for a solid five years, but could never take it from TN to Disney World. I had to borrow my mom's ICE car for those trips. I sold my Leaf in 2018 after 75,000 electric miles just around town. I traded the Leaf for a used gen 1 2013 Volt. I still drive it to this day. I have well over 100,00 miles combined on it, but 74,000 all electric miles. I charge at home using the 110 charger. I then commute about 22 miles to work where I use the free level 2 chargers to drive home again. Even in winter, I hardly use any gas. I could not be happier with my Volt. Since I'm just staff at a University, I don't make enough to own a newer EV with greater range. I dream of that day. Until then, my Volt will have to do.
Love that Aging Wheels
Pedantic note: The town in south GA that is most widely known for the military surplus Titan I missile that sits right off of I-75 is pronounced "cord-eel", not "cor-dell".
Yes, this correction was mostly an excuse to mention the missile. The only other thing that I know about Cordele is that their HS football team is usually pretty good (but usually not *that* great)
Since it's in Georgia, I'm surprised they don't call it "Cor duh lay".
Ultimately, the answer is that there needs to be significantly more charging stations across the world. Ideally we shouldn’t have to worry about broken chargers or stalls being full because the next station is only 10-15 minutes away. We’re far away from that being the case but at some point really need to see gas stations being converted to charging stations en-masse.
So much this.