The Worst TMO Call In The History of Rugby
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- How many times do we have to witness incompetent referees and TMO's ruin some of the biggest games in rugby, before something will get done? What we witnessed during the Scotland vs France Six Nations game, was daylight robery from the TMO. Scotland were 4 points behind with time expired and had to score a try to win the game. Then the most controversial part of the game happened, Sam Skinner of Scotland, carries the ball and goes to score. Intiially the ball gets held up by France, but Skinner seems to ground it after that. The referee blows his whistle, and goes to the TMO. HE says the on field call is no try, with the ball being held up by France. So he wants the TMO to check for a possible grounding.
The TMO goes through his angles, and the first few of them was inclonclusive. Then a great angle shows, where you can see how the ball is initially held up on the Boot of a French player, but then the ball gets pushed downward and we finally see a clear grounding as the ball touches the ground. That is when all this should be over, and the TMO should tell the ref he saw grounding and the try was scored. But what happens? The TMO is unsure of himself and continuies to look at inconclusive angles. He does this for multiple angles. He jjust wastes time on inconclusive angles, before finally going to the one good angle that shows the grounding. And you can sense he now starts seeing the grounding and there is a point where he tells the ref the ball is on the ground, which leads to the ref wanting to reverse his on field decision and award the try, as we all saw the grounding. Then somehow the TMO folds under all the pressure, and manages to talk himself out of making the correct call. He then goes on to say there is no "Clear" evidence even after we saw that replay that showed clear grounding. How many times must we see TMO's and referees get big decisions like this wrong, before World Rugby will do something about it? Instead, nothing will happen, and they will get protected and continue to TMO and referee in massive games, despite making game costing mistakes. It's a joke.
Match Officials of the game:
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant referees: Nika Amashukeli (Georgia), Jordan Way (Australia)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (Ireland)
'So the ball is grounded' 'Ok so I can change my decision and award the try' 'No i need more definitive evidence than seeing the ball on the ground' . It was a disgrace from the TMO
What a shame for us Frenchies we didn't deserve this win. Scotland was stronger. This referee and TMO should be fired from this beautiful sport. Apologies to our Scottish brothers.
Give ya balls a tug!
Not France's fault. No need to be ashamed. The referees are at fault.
What were you expecting it's Nick berry the Australian always in controversial decisions remember what he did to Rassie Erasmus during British and Irish series in south Africa
You aren’t our brothers.
@@johnhanson5943 Read your History man.
The problem with the 'on field decision' is that it commits the referee when he is not 100% sure. This creates a situation where someone might have to admit they are wrong, or that someone else was wrong, and some people find that very hard to do. We don't need an 'on field decision'. If there is uncertainty, just call it that and send it to the TMO for clarification. This takes away any pride related pressure.
I have been saying this for a long time! We need it scrapped.
Correct. The onfield decision should be “don’t know.”
Additionally, the laws should define that benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking team.
By referring it to the TMO the ref has already acknowledged he may be wrong. It is his job to make sure the best possible decision is made and we all understand that he may not be in a position to make a definitive decision, apart from a few nutters who demand the impossible. The "on field decision" does make sense. It means the referee strongly suspects a try was scored and there needs to be definitive evidence otherwise. The ref is closer to the action than the cameras and sometimes the footage is less clear than the ref's POV, so unless there is an angle that CLEARLY shows the ref wrong, his view stands.
@@SK93A And if the ref's POV was actually better than any of the TV footage, which is entirely possible? He refers when he wants to check for an angle that may prove him wrong, otherwise he was closer to the action and down at ground level.
@@nerdyali4154Well, if the referee was closer, why ask for TMO assistance? And if he's unsure, why not be clear on what he us unsure about? In this instance, what did he want the TMO to check? The grounding on the foot? The movement after ball was in the foot? What? We all saw same footage the TMO saw and we saw the ball was grounded after it slid off the foot.
The Rugby laws also say that no player is allowed to play the man or ball when off their feet. Look at all the hands trying to get under the ball while off thier feet. That's a penalty try.
French person here, not even a big Rugby fan but I watched the game with my nephew who loves Rugby (and supports France). I am however a person who likes things fair and honest and as we were watching and rewatching the slow mos and different angle at the same time as the ref, it was so clear that the ball had touched the ground. This must be investigated because that TMO must have been receiving some form of illegal pressure to make that call. It is so clear!
OK ball touched the ground but how ? Rolling from a hand, firmly crushed on ground or...impossible to see. No evidence, no try.
Lets face i;t THE TMO HAS RUINED RUGBY
Despite the evidence of the try, I admire the reaction of the Scottish players to the final whistle!
Fair play in defeat, hat on!
A French supporter
The kick tennis in the second half cost Scotland the game. This played into the hands of France, who only needed one moment of brilliance in the counter-attack and that was always going to happen.
I was thinking the same thing. In football, this would have not gona down that way. (Another French here)
Sorry but the major problem is that there is not evidence. Impossible to see.
@@stonemarten1400the try that we scored not being given cost us the game. A try at the 80th minute is still a try. Your argument doesn’t stand
@@keefy3517 Well, I agree that it should have been a try, but in reality it wasn’t a try, because it wasn’t actually awarded. If Scotland had played more attacking rugby in the second half, rather than trying to pin-back the French with the kicking game, then the controversy at the end might not have mattered. Still all hypothetical. In any scenario, I’m sad Scotland lost the game.
The TMO actually states clearly that the ball is grounded. Then he goes I will go back and get conclusive evidence, so either he is blind or incompetent because he states one thing and then another.
No that’s not what he says at all. Go back and listen accurately
I think he realised that he was not able to make that statement. he was damned either way.
I don't recall the TMO ever making that definitive statement - I watched the game live on TV. I did get the impression he thought it was most likely a try but the guidelines about Video Reviews limit him in what he can do to get a decision reversed.
@@fawltyoldboybasil.2178he said the ball was on the foot then on the ground TRY
Yeah he clearly changed his mind at one point.
Shocking stuff. Stevie Wonder should be fired from his TMO job…..Did you do a review of the RWC final?
They took it down immediately after obviously, where were you?
I can only assume TSA was very fair in his analysis at the time…as usual.
@@peteb3131😂
Yes if they did a review of the RWC final , they'll find the second try to be disallowed too.
Irish fan here Scotland were robbed. Felt for Gregor Townsend at the end there. He’s given a lot to Scottish rugby
There is nothing wrong with that decision, whether it is right or not. If the referee says the field decision is "no try" and no image shows a 100% evidence that he is wrong (and 99% is not 100%), then the field decision stands. It is a pretty good rule to avoid controversy (well at least it should be). The fact that there is try or not is irrelevant because noone can be sure. If there were no VAR, the field decision would also be the finale decision, that's the point of this rule: the video referee cannot decide without clear evidence. Scotland pretend they grounded the ball, but French player Tuilagi pretends he had his hand under the ball. So when it is a matter of word against word, you need some sort of impartial way of ruling, but impartial does not mean right, it means fair. Having said that, Scotland deserved to win this game, France played rugby for 10 minutes... (and I'm French).
@@vincentv.9729it’s a robbery it clearly was on the ground
@@WilliamHiwell if you are 100% sure it is on the ground and no hand under, you should press charge.
@@vincentv.9729do you have selective sight or smt cos you can see the ball on the ground in 1 angle
I'm French and I agree with you
Agree 100%, I hope Scotland RFU lodges a formal complaint. I am appalled at how bad a call this was.
careful... might get major backlash like Rassie did.
It's absolutely the correct call.
It was the right decision. Stop crying.
@@hedonautjust not tho is it
All i can gather from this is that rugby officials tale bribes or bet big on games. Hard lines Scotland. You were winners.
What a sad individual you are. It is hard to get refs at the top level because of posts like these.
@@dulls8475 you are naive.
@@timothyvanheerden8105 And yet again you doubled up on your issues...
that's worse than when I watched it live ... Scotland were robbed
Why is it always Scots that get robbed? I’m not complaining lol 🏴 but it’s an awful run of luck!
yes and it's just the six nations so imagine what we felt in france for the last world cup against SA !
it's not always scot italy and france were robbed many times too ! the problem is the rules are too complicated and referee are too important in the game and too often it is they who decide the outcome of the game ! it's not normal ! but i know what you feel@@dannyboywhaa3146
@@roms4154France were not robbed by South Africa. You were beaten fair and square. Scotland was robbed here though.
@@TheWildernessChannel what about kolbe?
The problem here is not the ref's unwillingness to admit a mistake, he made a mistake earlier in the game and reversed his decision without hubris and I'm sure he'd have done the same with the try if the TMO had agreed.
However, the entire world watched that ball slide off a foot onto the ground and try as I might I can find no reason other than an overblown sense of power for the TMO to deny it.
The TMO ought to be up in front of a board justifying his decision because terrible calls like this alter the history books forever.
My fullest sympathies to Scotland who outplayed the French yesterday and in my own eyes won the game.
Absolutely
Read up on the guidelines the TMO/Video Replay must follow. There is no video footage clearly showing the ball touching the ground - everyone ASSUMES the ball touches the ground after it slides off the French Players Boot (me included). The call made by Nick Berry of the ball being 'held up' instead of him saying he could not see what had happened (or 'Try, No Try'), means only clear video evidence of a grounding will change that decision.
@@fawltyoldboybasil.2178
Sorry but no, we don't assume anything other than what our own eyes showed us, we agree it slipped off a foot so what on earth did it slip onto if it wasn't the ground?
It's completely irrational to claim that because there was no clear direct view of the ball grounding then it must not have grounded, it's like claiming there's no gravity because there's no clear view of it.
What did the ball come to rest on if not the ground beside the players boot, what stopped its downward movement?
We saw the ball come to rest on the ground behind the boot, simple as that.
Even the TMO said that before inexplicably deciding he didn't see it after all.
If that's the guidelines then the guideline is an ass and it cost Scotland a famous victory which sadly will go down in history as a defeat.
Do you think the TMO doesn't know that every rugby fan in Scotland and half of youtube is going to be scrutinising the replays and sending him death threats? Sometimes I wonder if people even read the stuff they post in comments.
@@nerdyali4154
This wasn't just a wrong decision based on what he could or could not see ,this was at best wrong and at worst deliberate, how else can you explain this mans failure to do the one job he was given to do?
His job is to interpret order out of a slow-motion frame by frame re-run of a tangle of arms legs feet and jerseys and we have to expect he'd be at least reasonably good at it considering it's the sole reason he's there.
So how come the entire world saw that ball grounded and so did he then said he didn't?
There are no death treats from me nor any other insanity and I'm not Scottish but please don't expect me to sympathise with the buffoon.
I think the Ref should have asked try or no try
100%Agree
You have the situation 100% correct. It was the call Nick Berry made, not the TMO review that decided the result. IMO that was a try but the video is not conclusive.
I might be wrong but I think this is not possible anymore to ask this question. The ref had to make a field decision and the TMO has to verify if the decision is wrong but there has to be a 100% evidence which is obviously not the case here. There is reasonable doubt, hence field decision stands.
Awesome ty
@@fawltyoldboybasil.2178it’s very conclusive it hit the ground come on
As a french, i think it is a shame.
Thank you brother. It is always pleasure to watch French team play.
It's for IRB a way to say sorry or compensate about referee joke of rwc quarter... sad rugby, it will never grow up
Same here. I knew the Nic Berry had blundered and given us the game when he said "on field decision: no try". There was just no way there would be a clear camera angle to overturn that.
@@redkalyna4778 What are you going to do to compensate for your joke of a comment? The French should sing "We wuz robbed by the anglophile conspiracy" before internationals, it is the national anthem after all.
@@pierre4322 The TMO is more to blame than the ref to be fair.
Thats a try all day long shocking decision by VAR
The TMO says he sees it grounded. Then says he can't see it grounded. HMMMM...
TMO's bottle went. What's the point of these hold ups & replays if we come up with the wrong decision?..
thanks for highlighting this grounding even more clearly. what a SHOCKER.
There is no grounding in this video. You are seeing something that isn't there.
A grounding means a clear view of a Scottish hand applying downward pressure on the ball over the try line at the same time the ball touches the ground. We don't see who's hand is on the ball or even if the ball is over the line when it touches the grass. The boot appears to be on the white line with the ball moving back short of the white line before it hits the grass. Definitely unclear. A difficult call.
I don't agree. Yes, you see the ball go downwards off the foot, but because of the shallow camera angle, you don't see the ball actually touching the turf. The green grass you see is in the foreground. The turf directly under the ball is obscured in the shadows of the players... Seeing the ball move downwards towards the ground is not evidence of it clearly making contact. You need to see that contact completely unobscured. Therefore, no conclusive evidene of a try. Correct decision by tmo.
Nice try
If the ball has certain dimensions and there's an arm of a player on the ground obscuring a big part of it, so a minor piece of the ball is visible, since the arm of the player is not of hulk's dimensions, what else could be between the ball and the turf? A warm? A piece of paper? Surely not a hand of another player. Also the ball is not moving anymore, so theres nothing under it that tryes to lift it up.
And we can also say that a moment before, the arm was a little up and under it we can see the ball touching.
@@RockDistortoBestialelogically it's almost certainly a try. But the camera angle doesn't show the grass or the tryline. This would mean overturning a decision based on assumed facts rather than established facts.
It's hard on Sco though, anyone would be fuming in their position
Yes but the ball is down and you can see the white of the line BEFORE the ball - so it’s a try man! Are you stupid?
@@guillaumehammersley2672they’re not assumed - it’d be physically impossible for the ball to not be down!
I'm a France fan and I thought Nic Berry was going to reverse his decision after those TMO endless replays and I was so surprised when he didn't award the try. The Scottish lads should have won and I actually feel bad for Scotland. France got an underserved w, the Frenchmen got really "lucky"...
u guys got lucky twice in a row now eh
@@toknode331 true.
It’s honestly very disturbing hearing him talk himself through this while he clearly sees and say to himself “the ball is on the ground” and then later go on to say he doesnt have conclusive evidence. FIRE THAT MAN
After the TMO stated that he saw the ball grounded and then wanted to check another angle, the angle that he concentrated on was not the best angle. The best angle was the one that was from a higher elevation, it clearly showed the ball being grounded and being over the line. His final judgement was made on the wrong camera angle.
@@petermccarroll2292 exactly. That’s why it’s very concerning that he made his decision based on the worst angle
The ball was clearly down. Even with the technology and the evidence the TMO screws up. End of the game, so he had enough time to verify and re-verify. How bad can someone be at their job?
There is NO CLEAR VIEW OF THE BALL TOUCHING THE TRY AREA. I assumed it was a try when I first saw it but the TMO is constrained by what the referee said in his decision. If the TMO said it was a try, the referee can refute that by asking for clear video evidence of a grounding. Unfortunately for Scotland there is no 100% unobstructed view of the ball touching the ground, like it or not.
@@fawltyoldboybasil.2178The law says no player is allowed to tackle or handle a ball carrier when off their feet. Go look how many French players dove into the ruck and trying to put hands under ball. Multiple penalty try as well.
@@fawltyoldboybasil.2178You've watched the evidence on this video, right or did you just get on here and comment without checking? Hold on, are you the TMO?
No evidence no try.
Just because the ball touches the ground doesn't mean it's a 'grounding'. They have to see a Scottish hand applying downward pressure on the ball at the same time. You can't see who's hand is on the ball at that moment.
Why didn't the ref just say "Try or No Try to the TMO? The TMO bottled it in my opinion. We always have bad luck in crucial games, for example Scotland v Australia at Twickenham 2015 World cup quarter final, Referee Craig Joubert admitting that he should have awarded a penalty to Scotland in the dying seconds and which would have given us the win to progress to the semi final.
I remember that, it was a clear penalty to Scotland.
The TMO bottled the decision and changed his mind.
this TMO needs suspending and retraining before he is allowed to work again. Regular people could easily see this grounding but he chose not to see it. if not action is taken against this TMO then this brings the game into disrepute. Coaches should speak up.
Problem is that in order to over turn the on field decision (which was no try), the TMO must also be able to conclusively say the grounding was in the goal area. He can see from the camera that the ball was held up in the goal area but he can't be certain that the ball was subsequently grounded in the goal area because the camera angles are all too low. Unfortunately this is where the referee would have had the better view. Its a try for me but letter of the law says the TMO can't overturn the referee
Spot on buddy 👌
This may cost Scotland the championship
Clear grounding but where exactly. There is not clear and obvious footage of the controlled ball grounded on or over the line. If the ref call was on field try it would have been a try. Try to check if Russel was onside when charging Le Garrec to regain the ball and if in this process did not knock it on.
VDM tackle on Fickou shoulder on first half is legit but his interception not. He is never back on side after the tackle.
Mistake on both side and Scots should have kill it in the first half
Control was not part of the process. The instruction was clear. CHECK GROUNDING. THAT'S IT! Some people are incapable of executing a simple instruction. Are you one of them?
@@sbok9481 he needs a clear and obvious footage of the ball grounded on the line or after in control of the Scottish player to overturned the on field decision. Here you are telling that when ref ask for the grounding check they just want to see the ball on the ground does not matter where and from who’s hand… It would have been fun to see you as a TMO…
@@tanukishinryu8856 Check the grounding. The referees askance in such a case. He thought it had been grounded. Anything that went before this is inconsequential.
@@larryboyes7276 if he have thoughts that he would have said that on field is a try. Since he said on field is no try held up TMO need clear and obvious evidence to overrule him, the grounding is not enough, he should see it grounded on or after the line in control, that is a try definition.
Then when you check for a try and the TMO sees another foul before like for example an offside he can bring this up to the ref that did not see. That’s just the law, if he had said try need to check if it is help up it would have been a try
@@larryboyes7276The ref didn't think the ball was grounded. His onfield decision was no try.
Can someone educate me as to why this isn't considered a double movement? First movement lands the ball on players foot, second movement grounds the ball.
@@SK93A Rubbish
I'm not 100% sure on this, because there isn't a definitive section in the laws on grounding. But I believe double movements are only an issue when the ball is initially grounded before the try line. When the ball is held up in in-goal, you can attempt to ground it as many times as you like. Similarly, there are no offsides when in in-goal, and the defensive team can legitimately dive off their feet to attempt to hold the ball up. Hope this helps 👍
Also, I didn't know this, but a player can be in touch, or in touch in in-goal, and ground the ball to score a try, as long as that player is not in possession of the ball.
My issue is that I constantly tell people the protocols and rules in rugby are flawed but they won’t listen. And then stupid things like this happen.
Problem is rules that are open to interpretation, far to many such rules
One issue is the boot holding up the ball appears to be on the white line, and the ball comes back from the boot before touching down. So has the ball touched the grass short of the try line?
And in that shot we can't see who's hand is on the ball. A difficult call.
As a Welshman I was disgusted at the decision. So obviously a try!
If that had been Wales I would have preferred we lost, rather than win by a dodgy decision like that. It didn't even seem incompetent it seemed dodgy by both the ref and TMO
The Scottish players were pointing at the ball on the ground but the ref wasn't looking at that point !
I agree that this is a bizarre TMO decision. The ball was clearly grounded. However, I also think that this was a piss poor game of rugby. With 15 mins left and when both sides should have been really pushing for a win, they just played kick tennis. We had the strange spectacle of the great genius Finn Russell repeatedly catching the ball and then just standing there for some seconds because of some weird loophole in the law. I don't think either side really deserved to win.
The Aussie* ref made the onfield decision. WTF is everyone here a complete idiot?
@@washerdryer3466 What a strange comment. The ref, who is Australian, btw, made the held up initial decision, and that was quite understandable. The TMO then declines to overturn the ref's decision, even though it is clear to everyone watching that the ball is grounded.
@@MartensAD Yes Aussie ref. The picture shows the top of the ball. There is no clear and obvious picture representing unarguable, definitive evidence that the ball if gounded that would allow the TMO to overrule the ref. If you have a picture of the bottom of the ball with nothing between it and the ground, show it. Otherise what a strange comment. "Probable" as any child knows is not equal to "definitive" evidence. What the hell, the intellectual capacity all over this channel here is unbelievable.
I think Nic Berry saw the grounding for himself and on the replays. So did the TMO.
Otherwise, what evidence was there that it was held up???? None at all.
They are both to blame.
There is no 100% Clear View Video of the ball being grounded, like it or not. The view we have is obstructed by a leg. The question the referee asks the TMO determines the outcome.
"Try or No Try" is not the same as "The Ball is held up. Can you see if it was grounded"? - and this was pointed out by the match commentator at the time.
As a Scot yelling to my coworker as they were showing this live, "Look! It's clearly down.. watch.. it's on the French player's foot... wait... wait... wait.. DOWN!", and having watched this back an agonising amount of times... I'll admit couldn't say for certain the ball is on or over the tryline when it (definitely) touches the ground. Regardless I can say for certain that the match shouldn't have come down to this event for us to beat France - we should have had that game locked down as soon as we were playing against 14 men. We were the best team on the day for all 80 minutes, and didn't turn any of that dominance into points when we should have.
Look at 0.31, ball clearly on the line.
Nobody, not one single person saw that ball grounded in-goal. Show me the pictures and I'll change my comment.
The ball is pretty clearly in line with the boot and is grounded on the line, which is a try.
Try should have been given it is clearly grounded that TMO official should be removed from post
First off, the ref had the perfect angle in real time to see the ball slide off the foot and hit the ground. Should have been an on field try. Then the ball is clearly grounded on the TMO review, and the player is obviously in the try area. I just dont understand. We need an explanation. If Sotland somehow beats Ireland, but loses the Six nations because of this, this will be so despicable
The requirement for TMO to overturn the ref has to be grounded and over the line. None of that can be assumptions however confident the officials are.
Doubt there is, but could easily be a hand under in the 1 frame we see grounded, that one frame cannot show the ball over the line either.
Collisions and other infringements officials make very subjective but there's clear guidelines on what they're supposed to rule on groundings.
Scotland stopped playing rugby with a three point lead. They could have beaten France by twenty points if they kept playing and therefore have only themselves to blame for the loss.
I agree, the kick tennis in the second half played into the hands of France, they were always going to have a moment of brilliance if you gift them possession.
Thanks for your good work!
At what point does the single play after the tackle finish? Isn’t that the point where the ball is on the boot? Just a thought…
the TMO needed to find 100% evidence that the ball was grounded which we couldn't find / see. The rules are the same for everyone, just stick to it.
No, change the stupid rules mate... we all know it was a try!
then it would be play on. the ball could only leaggaly come out for scotland
It was 100%
As an impartial Englishman...... I see the ball on the ground it’s not the system, the system worked conclusive proof of grounding is there for all to see. 🤷♂️
The picture of the ball being placed on the ground seems pretty conclusive to me.
The reason they keep looking at inconclusive angles is to justify to the audience and probably themselves that they've made the correct decision. This was always going to be the problem with using different camera angles, the TV ref would always over exaggerate angles to justify a decision, even though the decision might be incorrect. They're using the ability to check over and over again to make the excuse after the game that they gave the decision enough consideration and therefore their decision was justified.
I'm often astounded by how long it takes the TMO officials to find the relevant footage and to slow it down.
The French will want Nic Beret (sic) to ref all of their games.
Nic Berry was ready to overturn his onfield decision in favor of Scotland without any clear evidence of the grounding, and thus go against the rules of rugby as they stand. This means 2 things :
- Nic Berry wanted to favor Scotland, not France, and probably needed a new car for his wife
- Nic Berry's wife might have to walk a bit more, as her husband sadly doesn't know the rules of the very sport he's reffing
And yes, that was a Scottish try.
Not really all us French supporters think he’s a cnut.
@@lanssstrongarm6845nonsense
@@lanssstrongarm6845 And now she has a lovely new Citreon / Peugeot / Renault to go to the shops in.
Should never have got to this as Finn Russell was clearly offside at the previous ruck, where Scotland turned over the ball illegally. Scotland clearly lost that match and will be kicking themselves this morning. Shouldnt have allowed it to get away.
Absolutely one eyed look at this especially the end by saying the TMO choked. If he did, wouldn’t he have given it to the home team? It made no sense for the TMO to choke by giving a call against the home team.
Nic Berry didn’t give the try on the field. There had to be clear and conclusive evidence to overturn it which there wasn’t despite your attempts to show evidence of. Grounding which was far from the case. Ball hit his foot. No try. France win.
Scotland just had try line fever and panicked rather than slowly draw the French to one side of the field than use Russell’s offloading ability to put van Der Merwe or Jones into a big open space to score.
Hmmm not home team but certainly favourites...
Lol no they scored a perfectly good try...
Irrelevant.
Rassie told us all about Nic Berry………how about the earlier French knock on which even Penaud stopped running but Berry shouted backwards , play on
There was another knock on immediately after that too. Darge asked Nic Berry, and he said "what way back there". Yes Nic, 3 seconds ago.
I'm sure Berry was biased to France, don't know why.
There is an alternative view that since the ref blew for the ball being held up, and if the action of grounding of the ball after thtat whisle then it is irrevelant if it was grounded. Play to the whistle.
As a French, I understand the Scottish frustration. This was a very difficult referee's moment.
I think that, yes, the ball touched the grass, but they couldn't see any hand push it to the ground. The only arm we see doesn't move, so doesn't make the movement of grounding. If you lose control of the ball and it touch the line, you can't be sure the try is good.
That's cruel, for sure, but it's not just a question of ball grounded, as everyone say...
However, Scotland was very strong and it's always a pleasure watch a game against you, guys ! 🤝
Welsh fan here Scotland was robbed what were VAR looking at, shocking
Did Russel not knock it on earlier in the passage?
Irrelevant.
I am not joking when I was watching this game and they didn't award the try I litterly called you would make a video on it. Like it's so sad I mean Scotland would've been way more feared after this, France are like favourites in here it's disgusting coming from a SA supporter
We were cheated. There was nothing wrong with the TMO process. The referee just made the wrong on-field call and refused to acknowledge the clear and obvious evidence of his error. Shocking refereeing. He should never be allowed to referee international rugby again.
Rugby a game where outcomes are constantly determined by the officials 😢
SA fan. Not only was this a bad call (Both ref and TV ref should be fired), but before that many French players were offside as well. One was over the line, or did the rules change?
SA Fan here.
I am stunned this was not reversed.
Unbelievable....
Surely the TMO has to see if a Scotland hand is on the ball when you “think” it’s touching the ground. It’s clearly not conclusive, if it was up the other end you would be saying “no try”.
Yes scotland were woeful in the second half but still I feel for them. Looks like a try to me.
And the tmo? He's about to have a bad week.
But he won't see it.
@@alanpartington2540 Not unless he goes to Specsavers.
What everybody forgets is that in the first half Van Der Merwe intercepted a ball when he has offside, stopping an almost certain try in the corner - everyone looked at his tackle immediately before, which was ok, but afterwards he never got onside before making the interception.
So to me these two decisions evened out!
TMO should be fired, he called grounding then bottled it.
Incredible decision! The referee was ideally placed to see it and he should have seen a try. At the very least the on-field decision should have been try - subject to TMO confirmation. As for the TMO decision, from the pictures we all saw on the screen it was not physically possible that the ball had not been grounded unless there was a 6-inch deep hole which enabled a French hand to slip unseen under the ball.
I'm french. New Zeland referees stole French team in quarter finale of world cup. Here I think the referees stole Scotland. We're always happy our national team wins, but I would have preferred to have a clear victory on the field and on this one I guess we don't deserved it, and Scotland should have win.
Get over it ! France should have had a penalty try for a high tackle on Fickou whilst they were about to score earlier in the game. Also no one shall forget how France got robbed way worse at the world cup with an illegal block on Ramos' conversion and a deliberate knock on by Etzebeth 5m from the score line, we're still waiting for TMO! That's the 3rd time France is obviously robbed in a World Cup.
Is France a deserving winner this time? Hell, no they played awful! but so did Scotland ...and the stakes are not as high.
The TMO is the death of Rugby
except when it suits you ....
The on field call was incorrect too though. So if no TMO, the outcome would've been the same. How did the TMO change things here?
As VAR is the death of football, and umpiring reviews in cricket. Just to spoil the whole thing for the fans. Sport was always about the moment. The spontaneity, the thrill of it, especially for scoring events, but now Hurray, your team has scored, but wait, what if there was an offside, a forward pass, an off the ball challenge somewhere in the 15 minutes leading up to the score? This is not about being right, it's about sucking the joy out of life for the ordinary people to demoralise us.
Somewhat babyish for a grown man.@@cyrilnebuloni787
@@alanpartington2540 I agree. The never ending replaying of every move so that a decision can be made is also really irritating & making games boring as hell. This game and the disallowed try by Scotland is a perfect example.
Ireland supporter here.
Absolute travesty of justice disallowing the try.... sadly, the ruling came from the TMO who had the chance to see what had happened, whereas the referee on teh pitch was unsighted. The decision wasn't the fault of the referee.
Impact of such an appalling decision is not only on the match itself, but the tournament outcome...
Hi at TASanalytics. Firstly, I love the videos. Can we have a video of the referee for the last 15 minutes of this game cause France's try at 70 minutes came from a scrum that was supposed to be Scotland ball. France knocked the ball, no advantage was played, and Russell kicked the ball into Schoeman, causing an accidental offside.
You can add to that the French blindside holding the Scottish blindside after the scrum, thereby creating the space for the winger.
And also a French player tackling someone out the ruck. There were 4 infringements leading to the try, and that's ignoring the ridiculous knock on about a minute before that whole sequence
TMO & Ref bottled it. 100% a try.
Vrai ! Mais pour une fois cela joue pour nous après 2011 et O'Keeffe en 2023 !
Asbolutely sickened watching it live in the pub, but couldn't hear the audio. Even worse now. Aye, you saw it grounded, both of yous said you were going to award it, then backpedal, and why? It's clearly on the ground
South Africa called Nick Berry out on the ridiculous blow of the 1st test Lion series. he ignored Kolisi & chatted with AWJ. Rassie did the video & was the bad guy. He just said "I got the ball held up" inexplicable decision, like what he did previously Like BIL test 1 whole game. Then he retreated into victim mode. A shocker from him BUT TMO could have flipped him and didnt, rankings mean more than events on field again, for the Scottish also at home..
It was a try! Why is the TMO scared to make the call??
I agree. It was so disappointing! The try was 100% clear, TMO should have reversed in field decision. BTW, I’m Italian, not Scottish.
Terrible call but Scotland should have put France to bed earlier. And they nearly bottleled it last week as well against Wales
France complained of being robbed against SA in WCup (Ramos penalty Kick charged down). There was such a hullabaloo about that in France that officials will be afraid of ruling against them. In addition to that, having lost to Ireland in Marseille, France couldn't go two matches down, so the win against Scotland was facilitated.
I agree with you TASanalytics that the TMO is actually the easiest job in rugby and they act like it is the hardest. To anyone that says "the ref and tmo were corr3ct bevause they didnt have clear and obvious proof" why did the tmo say "the ball is grounded" looking at the ball on the ground, only to 20 seconds later say he doesnt kmow
Ball was grounded clearly
I think the referee made a mistake when he said ''I thought ball were hold up'' , and the TMO referee do not analyzed enough, they just don't wanted to change.
Some people on here questioning if the ball was on or over the try line. Where the ball has slid off the boot and is grounded IT IS ON OR OVER THE TRY LINE. If you project the section of the white line that's visible ( at the ref's feet ) by eye across towards the ball, the position of the ball is beyond the try line or at the very least on it. Just open your eyes and look at the pictures.
As a french, I think this is clearly TRY for Scotland. Scotland deserved to win this game.
Brian MacNeive has a lot to answer for, denying Scotland any chance of a grand slam in the final game against..... oh Ireland!
Why was an Irish TMO appointed for this game?
IT was a probably a try, but there wasn't CLEAR evidence the ball was grounded on or over the line. The TMO wanted to give the try, but pulled himself back as he realised he couldn't give it as he has to overturn the onfield decision. If on field was no decision or try, then it has to be given. The problem is with the laws, not the TMO. Very tough on Scotland.
Probably is only allowed when there is an awarding of a penalty try.
All the mentions on here of whether or not it was over the try line or was a scottish player in contact with the ball when it slipped off the boot and did the ref blow up before the grounding are utterly irrelevant.
The referee was about to award the try based on the TMO saying "there is the ball on the ground" until he lost his nerve at making such a decisive call and backtracked leaving the referee as the one who ultimately made the decision.
Berry was fine with all the other aspects and just wanted clarity on the grounding.
Completely agree with this analysis. The communication between TMO and ref is shocking. When the TMO says “there it is on the ground” the ref should be confident enough to change his decision. And when the TMO starts to wobble, the ref doesn’t give his view from what he can also see on the big screen. The protocols result in different outcomes depending on which refereeing team are on a game. Since the 2023 WC Rugby has gone from having the best review system in sport to undermining its own credibility.
Technically the TMO did not see the ball grounded. So it has to be No try.
No mention of a high tackle on Ficou and probably penalty try from the Scots, far more obvious than a disputed grounding.
The on-field decision was "ball held up"... But did that relate to when it was on the boot? Which would be correct, but only up to that point in play. Or was the ref saying he saw the whole sequence, including the ball subsequently being apparently grounded, yet thought it was also held up then?... Really, this was a shocker.
The referee and TMO are bang on, 100% correct.
You can see the ball on a French player's boot, then there's a gap where you see nothing, then there's the ball on the ground. That's not a grounding. To overturn his on-field decision of "ball held up", he needs CONCLUSIVE evidence of a SCOTTISH HAND applying downward pressure to the ball in the in-goal area. Show me that conclusive evidence. Hint: It isn't there.
Pro tip: the ball appearing to lay on the ground after disappearing for a few seconds isn't evidence of the above.
It may well have been grounded, but we'll never know, because there's no conclusive evidence. Ergo, Nic Berry was correct not to overturn his on-field decision.
As an alternate reality, had Nic Berry said on-field decision was a try, in order to overturn that he would have needed CONCLUSIVE evidence of some part of a French player's body holding the ball up. There wasn't any of that either. So the decision would have remained try.
That's why the on-field decision is so important in 50/50 scenarios, and he couldn't just assume it was grounded. The only people who know if that ball was legitimately grounded or not were the handful of players there at the time.
I've give up watching Rugby a while back as there are now way too many obscure rules and therefore endless infringements. Is there another sport with so much whistle??
Anyway, a question for the experts, the ball was initially held up by the foot and the ball stopped - no doubt about that. So when it eventually grounded is that not a second move??
The rugby establishment wanted France to win.
The ball obviously touched down, proving that Scotland won the game.
Have you tried playing it with the soundtrack? If you do, you may find the ball moved after the whistle. In which case he's right. No Try.
Hey could you do an impartial breakdown on theworld cup final? Or are you too scared?
Scotland, where robbed! As a South African supporter, I also think there should be consequences for this bezzar TMO call. He's got everything he needs right in front of him.
The angle shows the ball going downwards after being held up. It does not show the ball clearly being grounded so the TMO did the right thing (given the on-field decision).
This was the intrinsic risk that Scotland took when they went for the line in that moment. If they wanted to eliminate the risk, they should have been more patient or spun the ball wide. If they didn't back themselves doing those things it is a poor cop out to blame the officials for failing to see a marginal grounding in a heap of bodies
I was gutted nearly threw my French stick out of the window. But I was hungry, so ate it. This was daylight robbery. We won that match.
Officials should be sacked, end of.
Never really watch the rugby. Happened to be watching this live and it completely put me off watching again if that's the type of calls that are made.
Doesn't just hurt Scotland but puts people off watching the sport tbh.
Great video