Oh man, I can’t believe he didn’t include This Company or That Company on the list! I know their rivalry has been controversial of late, but holy hell, did you HEAR what Unknown Artist released using their latest synths! Their omissions are an absolute travesty!
I flatly don't get how you could rank Teenage Engineering an A when you've got Waldorf and Arturia as B's! Almost nothing in the TE lineup is generally usable in a track, whereas Waldorf has a comprehensive line of synths that goes from 300 bucks to 3000, and Arturia has been uber creative and brought some great value to market like the MF. Grudging respect to Roland, but at this point they are just being obstinate about sticking with primarily digital synths. Moog's SubHarmonicon is the single weirdest thing in my studio, and even though I am just barely able to get it to sound good, I'm hooked. And yeah, nothing but love for Korg, who led the new analog charge then pivoted us back to digital in the last few years while consistently hitting the $600-1100 sweet spot. Come on Korg, we are ready for the Electribe 3... but this time just do it all in one box, please!
@@agentmith Did you read the OP's comment? "John R" was replying to the OP's claim that "almost nothing in the TE lineup is generally usable in a track."
@@NoirEtBlancVie Similar engine, but not the same - the new Deluxe has dual engines and bitimbrality. And there's actually four of them - original 49 key, desktop, Explorer and Deluxe.
@@NoirEtBlancVie Yes, but with that one synth you can make other synths(if you make use of all the oscillators and macro knobs). Even modular style patches (and generative) can be achieved with it.
@@NoirEtBlancVie i think that's quite a fair argument considering this is a synth tier list and not something like, 'communications with their users' tier list.
The problem with Dreadbox is that you have to jump on a model when it comes out or shortly after, their product runs are short-lived and the line changes constantly.
Gréât list ! I only really disagree with Arturia placement, I really think they should be A tier seeing how they have a rly balanced lineup, flagship to cheaper alternative, not to mention the drum machines, great list tho!
the polybrute has become my dream synth that I actually have the possibility of owning one day. Arturia has more than won me over these last few years and I regard them with as much respect as any other synth manufacturer.
Yeah, Arturia is one of the most innovative synth manufacturers out there. They borrow a lot from others but reframe it in new ways that inspire creativity. And the build quality is very good. An easy A-tier for me.
Some tidbits: Korg: I agree with their placement. They're just a powerhouse and have the resources to do anything. I'm still not a fan of their UI. Very complex and non intuitive. However, my biggest gripe is they need a new flagship workstation. The Nautilus is not cutting it. The Kronos is still a superior piece of hardware. Their new Pa5x has a new layout that I thought they would never do that is very reminiscent of Roland... which is a big +. Waldorf: I don't know. I personally have an Iridium. I'm even contemplating on getting an Iridium Keys to my addition. I think you should have mentioned the Waldorf Kyra, which I have, as well. It's sonically beautiful and with 100+ voice polyphony... it's truly an incredibly virtual analog synth. Personally, they're an A grade company. What gives them the edge? Their interface is so intuitive. Plus, all the variations of the Iridium are big plus. The Quantum, Iridium, and Iridium Keys are a sound designers dream. Who else can make a synthesizer engine this vastly complex but so easy to use. Elektron: Love Elektron. Their workflow is no where as bad as people make it out to be. I think what would really make them shine if they released a tier-1 workstation that encapsulates everything they have with a massive 9-inch screen. Have the RYTM MKII and Analogy Four MKII... their analog sound is rich and fat with nice reverberation. Arturia: they're gaining so much ground. Now with the Mini Freak...
It’s been tough for Novation. With the death of Chris Huggett part way through the writing of the updated firmware for the Peak and Summit they had to put their resources into finishing that off. Hopefully they can find a way to move forward with new products.
It would be interesting to see a Eurorack specific tier listas well. I think it would be interesting to see if ES moves up or down when viewed in context with other Eurorack companies.
People got mad when the second hand price for OP-1s shot up when they were out of production. So what did TE do when they started making more OP-1s? They raised the price by $400 to match what people were paying on ebay! TE also treats pre orders like money already earned and fills pre orders last priority.
Great video as always. Personnaly, I would have put Yamaha higher and Roland Lower but it was quite interesting. Korg is definitely on top for me. They have been the synth trend setters for the past 20+ years
Seems fair. I would have Roland down a tier as they seem to release the same thing, but with a different marketing angle, but hey it isn't my tier list.
You should consider doing another list based on companies that support and have a relationship with their customers. I feel this important to consider as a lot of companies are only after money and have no support for their products. A lot of them.
The latest prosumer-level synths from Sequential (Pro 3, Take 5) are wildly popular and for good reason. I think Sequential sees the value in that mid-tier market, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we see desktop versions of these synths down the road (I myself am screaming for a desktop Pro 3). I'm also convinced that we will see some of the interface innovations from these mid-level synths reflected in future flagship models (sequencer and mod assignment, mostly). I myself would have put ASM high on that list - the Hydrasynth is a truly inspiring and powerful machine with great value - the range covers every price point and the rollout has been flawless, really. I'm really really curious to know what they're currently dreaming up in terms of future synths that compliment the hydra range without cannibalising it. Definitely a company to watch.
If you're going to rank Erica, I think you have to keep their modular gear in mind, because that really seems to be the heart and soul of what they do. Solid A tier in my book
The Reface DX is fantastic, but also so frustrating: It has the best mini keyboard I found and is portable, but then it has no modwheel 😞 I make tons of sounds for it but it has only 32 presets. The positive *and* negative feedback for every operator is most useful evolution of Yamaha-style FM ever, but then you can't modulate the feedback :(
Great insight and well thought out. Certainly this is subjective so I didn’t expect us to agree 100%. Yet I’d like to highlight something you didn’t discuss. You may have considered it, and if so, it would have been great to hear your observations about support. In particular, firmware enhancements. Sometimes manufacturers ship buggy instruments. However, sometimes companies want to keep their instruments current and relevant. In the latter case, they actually give enhanced functionality to current owners FOR FREE. This is a worthy evaluation point to consider. Sure, Novation didn’t release a new synth in the last two years. However, the BassStation 2 update and the Peak/Summit updates have been extraordinary! I think there’s something even more important about a company that improves a synth after you already own it as opposed to trying to get more of your $$$. Others who are winning in the area of firmware updates: Arturia Ashun Sound Machines Synthstrom Audible Keep up the great work! Peace.
Agreed about Synthstrom. The Deluge is my dream machine. Hopefully I'll be able to get it in the next few years at some point. But it finally got wavetable synthesis really recently which is just awesome. That thing is a beast. I don't think I've ever seen a more feature-complete groovebox. Or, at least, a groovebox that's portable.
And guess who fails? Roland, Akai, ... Not because they don't update period but because if they do, they don't fix the big issues, they take years to get to whatever they claim to fix, and their updates often are tied to trick bags to corrall you into buying new sound sets no one asked for or they replace the old product with something else in 1 or 2 years and never fix the old one so you are out hundreds of not thousands of dollars. Totally don't care about customers, just their bottom line and taking advantage of customers who are unaware of their little games.
@@new.romance999 - I have a BeatStep Pro, a MicroFreak, and a MatrixBrute and I don't know what you mean by "bugs." Can you provide examples? And specifically for these three devices because you said that they ship "everything" with bugs. I look forward to better understanding how they have let us down. Thanks.
It's always interesting to see how folks approach all this stuff. Like if I were to make this kind of list it would be way more sampler and drum machine focused. And I lean towards desktop offerings. So Yamaha would be a non-entity. Akai would have to be in the mix. Roland might just be S tier for everything you mentioned plus the new 404. Also, I've spent a bunch of time making drum sounds on the Craft and Skulpt so I'd really be interested in seeing what they'd do with a drum machine. So yeah, very cool video, dude
So if Sequential put out a lower cost product, one which inevitably would be lower quality and/or more limited in functionality than what they currently offer, you’d rank them higher?
I would have a hard time where to put Teenage Engineering. They're synths are really original, unique and fun. But the build quality of the OP-Z relative to the price is really not good. Also i'm not sure if they're listening to their customers, they seem to always go their own way.
really awesome take and insight; the list cannot contain every company under the sun, but as far as innovation and quality would deff put -Soma Labs up there even tho its a small range of instruments as far as inspiration/innovation/quality goes ( pulsar and lyra) are insane. -Bastl instruments would also fall into the Soma category of creating inspiring instruments. Yamaha as much as i love the CP and DX from the reface line yea.. wish they had more output of products. Elektron is extremely exciting.
Another thing to consider is the n/zyme Model Expansion, that came with the 3.0 update, for the flagship Fantom, this year. Although it is only 100 or so patches, the expansion adds the wave table element, that really changes the level of synthesis. Personally, I love the expansion. If Roland were to beef it up (by adding a couple hundred more patches) in a future update, it would earn the Fantom the title that Roland put under their keyboard classification (it says synthesizer instead of workstation). That said, they are trying...just not quite there yet. Love your videos! Thanks again for hanging out with us on Ave's channel. See you at NAMM!
Well, I was hoping you'd move the forces of Arturia again this year with the Polyfreak comment, but it's been a week and still no launch. Not sure what they're waiting for, you summoned them properly.
Still waiting for my Korg Volca FM2. The release date in France was initially planned for May 6th, but when I got to my music store, they were quite embarassed to tell me that the release date was postponed to mid-June. After seeing tons of videos about this synth made by influencers who received it a long time ago, I just feel like Korg did screw up their marketing plan.
Really good list and some good points made. Given your parameters, i think it's pretty close to what i would rank, although I think if you include a few other Erica Synths products like their Matrix Mixer & Zen Delay pedal, they are easily an "A", which is amazing for such a small company. Oh, and a note on the Modal "00" line that you mentioned... I recently discovered that line and was so intrigued that I reached out to Modal support and they kindly and quickly answered my question. Basically, these 3 synths have NOT been discontinued, which is why they still appear in the products section of their website. However, they are currently unable to produce them due to the chip shortage. They weren't able to provide any estimate on them becoming available again but hopefully it will happen eventually as those things looks amazing!
yeah i'm with you 100% on the patch memory thing... certainly i'm also not a fan of their owner, or their business direction of basically just copying other company's synths using cheap components... but no patch memory is a deal breaker. Can't imagine working hard to dial in the exact sound you're looking for, only to not be able to save it for instant recall later... just baffling to me anyway, and the reason i ended up with a Subsequent 37 but wont even consider other mid-range Moogs. To each their own i guess ;-)
good review, thanks. re sequential: dave & tom oberheim have drunk their own mezcal: 40 years and ob-5000meh main innovation is got rid of the heatsink? ok it can blend b/w ob8, x &c but at some point you want to step in the 21st century - come up w a new waveshape, add a korg kaoss touchpad, mpe gesture control
Sonicware? ... missed the mark by not mentioning them and what they are doing at a sweet price point. Other than that... great video and also I hope you increase your output presence on this media. Always a joy to watch your content.
On my list, Korg would not get more than a B, due to it's sometimes uninspiring tones. I also feel like they are always missing a feature that we all want. BUT, I don't think I have 1 company under S. MAYBE Moog, but they are just so pricey.
seems like a reasonable ranking. If we start to consider all the smaller/boutique companies (including Eurorack world) there's a lot of good gear out there! What a time for making music!
At least summit/peak got some major firmware updates keeping them relevant, but I agree they could've added something new to the lineup this past year.
Prologue fan here. "Underrealized" maybe but It's shocking how underrated it is. It beats the rev 2 on core sound/tone (equals or beats the prophet 6 or ob6 imo) is the smallest and lightest flasgship analog that still has a 5 octave keybed so it's great for gigging, and beats just about every analog poly in polyphony except the moog one and Andromeda, and then there's the multi engine which gives you fm, wavetables and a bunch of other software sound engines from 3rd parties. Its drawbacks (no aftertouch, one lfo) aren't really that much of a problem. For how good it can sound it is the best value for the money of any analog polysynth on the market. I recently got a Prophet 5 rev 4, one of the best sounding analogs ever made and the prologue can absolutely hold its own alongside it.
Roland did a great job with the boutique TB03 and TR08 recreations- battery powered, speakers, easy to use and sound great for the money. My pair of on the go synths along with my OP-1. Love my Octatrack but it needs overbridge support and update. Rytm MK2 favorite drum synth as it easy to use and sounds great.
Wait... what about Novation Circuit Tracks and Rhythm? And Roland just dropped their little Volc... um, mini Airas which pack some decent, if somewhat dated punch.
I would rank Modal higher. Not only are their synths very high quality and extremely flexible, they are also releasing software updates all the time that expand the possibilities of their current synths.
Maybe another way to think about Sequential and Novation is as a whole, like how Hyundai has their main brand of cars for entry-level stuff and then their Genesis brand for high end luxury cars. Novation handles a lot of the entry level needs with stuff like Circuit, Bass Station, and Mini-Nova through to Peak, and then about where Novation stops Sequential starts at $1500 and goes up from there (with the Summit being a bit of an outlier, but hey no corporate strategy is perfect). Granted, they don't share common design/branding. Together though I think they're an S-tier.
I love your content brother! I have to say though… Erika is S Tier, even if you aren’t a “Eurorack person” their offerings like the Fusion System II and Techno System offer easy entry into Eurorack with unique sounding, self-contained 104hp or 2x104hp systems-it’s how I got started in Eurorack. The Perkons, Syntrx, Bassline, LXR02 all offer insanely reasonably priced instruments for what they offer. They have something in essentially every price bracket and then if you look at their Eurorack stuff? They’re GOATed. 🐐
Interesting and useful…and the thing with Sequential is that it would be nice for them to have another actual entry level synth. Maybe like a full on groove box in the Evolver and Mopho mold.
The list doesn't make any sense :D However, I'd love to hear a comparison between the PolyBrute and Prophet 6 ... or Rev2 (my favorite of the current Sequential line-up)
Novation should look to fill out the middle of their product range. Something around the 700-800 mark. That said, Peak is the synthesizer I use the most. It's so versatile, and sounds physical. A Summit would be great too. Before a slew of other monosynths came out in competition, the Basstation II really was the best bang-for-buck monosynth. It's still great, but it does have plenty of competition now. Personally, I think the current Roland synth range doesn't really deserve the name (drum machines are good though). I'd put Arturia A, the Polybrute is a definite contender for best analogue polysynth. And I love my microfreak, especially as the firmware updates have been brilliant. But kudos for holding them below an A, so they deliver a Polyfreak. I'd love to see them put their FX in an 8 voice poly, that had the Polybrute analogue engine, but with a Microfreak oscillator added too, and a 8 part keystep. Great to see Waldorf pushing ever more strongly. And hopefully UDO and ASM will put out more synths as interesting as their firsts. Dreadbox are able to make great synths too, I hope they'll build their line out.
Novation bought Sequential, i could imagine that they will adapt some technologies first and then create some new synth or reearrange their portfolio strategy for the future.
I agree with most but without bias Roland just can't be anywhere near top tier anymore. Ignoring what people actually want, everytime, for no reason has to weigh heavier. I think only their legacy and other products outside the synth domain is keeping them afloat. Behringer and them should swap places imo because if enough people ask for something on their forum, they will make it or recreate it eventually even when we have to beg the original companies to do so and they never do
Korg knows how to win the current market. Roland strangely knows how to win the future market, which is why some of their synths only become popular when they’re no longer in production!! Some one could say they’re just too ahead of their time.
I’m still shocked at how underrated your channel is, especially with the production quality you bring to each video. It’s honestly criminal that your videos don’t get more views lmao.
@@NoirEtBlancVie You certainly succeed at making your videos fun for sure, as well as super informative and helpful. Thanks for all your hard work man.
It's interesting to see your view on the different brands and in some parts I agree in some I don't, but as you said in the Video, those are personal opinions. On thing that made me raise an eyebrow was that you said that the Nord keyboards are too expensive, even for you, but you then go on an mention that you own a Waldorf Quantum which costs more then the Nord keyboards. So I'm curious now. What makes the Quantum worth the hefty price tag for you and the Nord keyboards not? I'm longing for a Waldorf Iridium myself. And yes at first sight the Iridium feels like a cheaper offering when the Quantum's hefty price tag is to much, but at a closer look I think it's not entirely the case. Like because of the completely digital design the Iridium has 16 voice polyphony vs the 8 voice polyphony of the Quantum. Depending on one's usage case, the Iridium might even be the better option compared to the Quantum. For me the Iridium desktop is the perfect option because of it's size and the lower price tag compared to the keyboard version and the Quantum and the 16 vs. 8 voice polyphony is the icing on top. Though I really would love the Iridium keyboard version because it has that nice Fatar polyphonic after touch keyboard, but there is only so much space in my home studio. Anyway thanks for the video :)
Great point, and you totally watched the video (I can tell 😉) So for some context, I definitely was only referring to the Electro 6D as too expensive for me, and that’s mainly because I love the waterfall keys. The Rhodes, Wurly and Organ patches for live performance are so good, but I don’t do that anymore, so the Yamaha CP just for fun at home for $400 can easily replace the Nord sonically. As for the Quantum, so, I should make it clear that I got my Quantum as a dent/scratch unit for like $3500, far less than the unbelievable $5000 they’re at now, (sheesh that price🙄), I wouldn’t buy a Quantum at that price today, but, I just love love love the UI on the Quantum EVEN THOUGH it’s still buggy at times. There’s just something about the integration of knobs and that screen, it’s like a VST, but I hate mousing around and I’m a huge knob per function person so I’m a sucker for it. Iridium will get you there, so don’t hesitate, like I said, I think the Iridium keys was purpose made for people who couldn’t imagine spending $5000 on a Quantum ☺️
@@NoirEtBlancVie Ah I see. Thanks for the insight. I feel similar about the Nord Stage and Electro Line. I would love one but I never could justify the expense just for fun at home. And yeah the $5000 price tag of the Quantum nowadays is a big oof.
I agree with your tier list! I also have a kind of similar experience with Elektron.. I had a digitakt for a year, produced some great stuff but the workflow isn't intuitive for me.. I always had to find the manual, or watch a vid to get something done. and the menu diving is suuuper tedious. That being said, everytime I watch a new vid of the digitakt, syntakt, octatrak, etc.. I always want to dive into the world of Elektron again. Elektron products seem to be a cornerstone for many studios.
Come now, what has Roland done in years to be given an A? Especially after continually taking no interest in actually hearing what their audience wants? It's bad, really bad, and far too prevalent. It's sub B for sure.
Remember when Roland came out with that all analog beast with like 16 voices, they built off the Juno architecture and also included the supernatural engine and had a extremely usable UI… Nevermind, that never happened. 😁
I bought a Behringer 2600 clone last year and absolutely love it. I can’t afford a Korg 2600 or an Antonous (…yet) but it’s absolutely amazing for the money
Ooh controversial indeed ;) (I revised my original) S - no one (but it could be several niche picks from superbooth22, like that russian one with clocks... Motorsynth 2 ) A+ Behringer! - "synthesizers for the people" - UB-Xa, Model 15...; A - Roland for their ZenCore integration updates and new ventures in Aira; Arturia - for most persitently useful upgrades; B+! for Korg (i'm a Korg fanboy and would give'em C-! for the release of faulty modwave to the market (WTF!). They redeemed themselves for their native VST's this year. FM2 and NTS2 is welcomed but nowhere near impressive); B - Elektron, Syntakt might just be the best groovebox/electribe ever!; Dreadbox - solid Nymphes, Erebus 2; TE - whatever calculators you do...; C - Modal - buzzy hardware, love the sound, but fix that buzz man!; Sequential - Oberheim looks to be awesome; Moog (yeah it's a Moog, get over it); D - Nord and Kurzweil - solid stage; Yamaha - welcome to the church, nice organ.; Novation - yo, what's happening? Are we moving?; I'm dropping Erica Synths as boutique modular manufacturer. VMS Synthi copy could be an "A" on its own though. Notable synths to watch for: Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave, Melbourne Instruments NINA,
If they release a few more models maybe, really hard to gauge companies with 1 or 2 offerings against those with 10+ currents offerings and legacy products. UDO is one of my new faves, but 🤷🏾♂️
great list only change i do on sound alone for stage use sequential is a s tier..not sure on the fan boy love for korg same old sounds maybe b tier if that..nord maybe a b to a ....behringer should even be reviewed for the cheap junk copys made by china kids if you had h tier..kids save your money and buy somthing that sounds cool
Yamaha is S tier for me, but then again I don’t think I ever left the 90’s 😂
I'd imagine the comments section will remain harmonious and free from arguments and petty insults.
fuck synthesizers
🤣🤣👏👏
Oh man, I can’t believe he didn’t include This Company or That Company on the list! I know their rivalry has been controversial of late, but holy hell, did you HEAR what Unknown Artist released using their latest synths! Their omissions are an absolute travesty!
There’s gotta be an F tier synth company out there
i deadass tried to find synth companies called “this company” and “that company”
Seriously, if you're not gonna rank every boutique eurorack company, why even bother?
Forget This or That… what about Those Companies?
I cant believe it either. What an asshole
I flatly don't get how you could rank Teenage Engineering an A when you've got Waldorf and Arturia as B's! Almost nothing in the TE lineup is generally usable in a track, whereas Waldorf has a comprehensive line of synths that goes from 300 bucks to 3000, and Arturia has been uber creative and brought some great value to market like the MF. Grudging respect to Roland, but at this point they are just being obstinate about sticking with primarily digital synths. Moog's SubHarmonicon is the single weirdest thing in my studio, and even though I am just barely able to get it to sound good, I'm hooked. And yeah, nothing but love for Korg, who led the new analog charge then pivoted us back to digital in the last few years while consistently hitting the $600-1100 sweet spot. Come on Korg, we are ready for the Electribe 3... but this time just do it all in one box, please!
Their synths are decisive but hundreds of artists have used them in tracks. Bon Iver made an entire album using mostly the OP-1
@@thegreaterconundrum I could compose an entire album off a Yamaha piano, that doesn’t mean anything
@@agentmith Why doesn't that mean something to you?
@@agentmith 100% irrelevant point.
@@agentmith Did you read the OP's comment? "John R" was replying to the OP's claim that "almost nothing in the TE lineup is generally usable in a track."
I was hoping ASM would've made the list, the hydrasynth is top tier
Don’t they kinda just have one synth, but in 4 sizes? 🧐
@@NoirEtBlancVie Similar engine, but not the same - the new Deluxe has dual engines and bitimbrality. And there's actually four of them - original 49 key, desktop, Explorer and Deluxe.
@@NoirEtBlancVie Yes, but with that one synth you can make other synths(if you make use of all the oscillators and macro knobs). Even modular style patches (and generative) can be achieved with it.
@@NoirEtBlancVie i think that's quite a fair argument considering this is a synth tier list and not something like, 'communications with their users' tier list.
@@freshkidblaze doesn't make it a new synth though.
Dreadbox definitely worth consideration! They have been making waves in the regular synth market as well with Typhon and Nymphes
The problem with Dreadbox is that you have to jump on a model when it comes out or shortly after, their product runs are short-lived and the line changes constantly.
After being married to Korg and Roland for such a long time, I think I’m gonna branch out to dreadbox next. I love their modules so much.
Gréât list ! I only really disagree with Arturia placement, I really think they should be A tier seeing how they have a rly balanced lineup, flagship to cheaper alternative, not to mention the drum machines, great list tho!
Imagine an Arturia groovebox. I can't say if I think it'll ever even happen though.
the polybrute has become my dream synth that I actually have the possibility of owning one day. Arturia has more than won me over these last few years and I regard them with as much respect as any other synth manufacturer.
Yeah, Arturia is one of the most innovative synth manufacturers out there. They borrow a lot from others but reframe it in new ways that inspire creativity. And the build quality is very good. An easy A-tier for me.
Arturia has steadily become a favorite:
Their software killllls
The 8Pre audio interface is 🤌🏾
Annnnd the Drumbrute slaps with a tube preamp
Arturia is terrible. Just a marketing company. Treats costumers like beta testers.
Some tidbits:
Korg: I agree with their placement. They're just a powerhouse and have the resources to do anything. I'm still not a fan of their UI. Very complex and non intuitive. However, my biggest gripe is they need a new flagship workstation. The Nautilus is not cutting it. The Kronos is still a superior piece of hardware. Their new Pa5x has a new layout that I thought they would never do that is very reminiscent of Roland... which is a big +.
Waldorf: I don't know. I personally have an Iridium. I'm even contemplating on getting an Iridium Keys to my addition. I think you should have mentioned the Waldorf Kyra, which I have, as well. It's sonically beautiful and with 100+ voice polyphony... it's truly an incredibly virtual analog synth. Personally, they're an A grade company. What gives them the edge? Their interface is so intuitive. Plus, all the variations of the Iridium are big plus. The Quantum, Iridium, and Iridium Keys are a sound designers dream. Who else can make a synthesizer engine this vastly complex but so easy to use.
Elektron: Love Elektron. Their workflow is no where as bad as people make it out to be. I think what would really make them shine if they released a tier-1 workstation that encapsulates everything they have with a massive 9-inch screen. Have the RYTM MKII and Analogy Four MKII... their analog sound is rich and fat with nice reverberation.
Arturia: they're gaining so much ground. Now with the Mini Freak...
It’s been tough for Novation. With the death of Chris Huggett part way through the writing of the updated firmware for the Peak and Summit they had to put their resources into finishing that off. Hopefully they can find a way to move forward with new products.
Love it.
Fun video! Take a note of Dreadbox for the next year
It would be interesting to see a Eurorack specific tier listas well. I think it would be interesting to see if ES moves up or down when viewed in context with other Eurorack companies.
People got mad when the second hand price for OP-1s shot up when they were out of production. So what did TE do when they started making more OP-1s? They raised the price by $400 to match what people were paying on ebay! TE also treats pre orders like money already earned and fills pre orders last priority.
Great video as always. Personnaly, I would have put Yamaha higher and Roland Lower but it was quite interesting. Korg is definitely on top for me. They have been the synth trend setters for the past 20+ years
As a huge fan of Roland, I agree. The Roland of today is B tier at best.
I think Roland and Yamaha were strongest in the 1980s. Korg was a bit weaker back then, IMO but is doing so well now!
Seems fair. I would have Roland down a tier as they seem to release the same thing, but with a different marketing angle, but hey it isn't my tier list.
RIP Mutable Instruments
You should consider doing another list based on companies that support and have a relationship with their customers. I feel this important to consider as a lot of companies are only after money and have no support for their products. A lot of them.
And, IMHO. Novation wins hands-down there.
Cool list, but asking Behringer for original gear is a dream that wil never come true. But I enjoyed your reasoning per company, thanks man.
I'm surprised the take 5 didn't convince you they can make affordable synths. I thought it was a brilliant move and a great synth.
I think he was looking for something sub-$1k.
Subharmonicon S+
The latest prosumer-level synths from Sequential (Pro 3, Take 5) are wildly popular and for good reason. I think Sequential sees the value in that mid-tier market, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we see desktop versions of these synths down the road (I myself am screaming for a desktop Pro 3). I'm also convinced that we will see some of the interface innovations from these mid-level synths reflected in future flagship models (sequencer and mod assignment, mostly). I myself would have put ASM high on that list - the Hydrasynth is a truly inspiring and powerful machine with great value - the range covers every price point and the rollout has been flawless, really. I'm really really curious to know what they're currently dreaming up in terms of future synths that compliment the hydra range without cannibalising it. Definitely a company to watch.
If you're going to rank Erica, I think you have to keep their modular gear in mind, because that really seems to be the heart and soul of what they do. Solid A tier in my book
You guys are trippin, I can’t believe the Reface series is slept on. I have the DX and CS and they’re incredible
Same, I love my CS
The Reface DX is fantastic, but also so frustrating: It has the best mini keyboard I found and is portable, but then it has no modwheel 😞 I make tons of sounds for it but it has only 32 presets. The positive *and* negative feedback for every operator is most useful evolution of Yamaha-style FM ever, but then you can't modulate the feedback :(
Good video, well made, informative. I don't agree with everything, but I like watching your stuff. Keep it up! :)
I got a Digitone Keys a couple months ago and absolutely love it. Super slept on. I don't get the hate for the ergonomics, but I'm also left handed
Imho Arturia should be S or at least A. MatrixBrute is killer ! and undervalued for exemple
No Kurzweil? The V.A.S.T. synthesis architecture covers everything and their K2700 release is rather monumental.
They still exist?
Of course
Great insight and well thought out. Certainly this is subjective so I didn’t expect us to agree 100%. Yet I’d like to highlight something you didn’t discuss. You may have considered it, and if so, it would have been great to hear your observations about support. In particular, firmware enhancements.
Sometimes manufacturers ship buggy instruments. However, sometimes companies want to keep their instruments current and relevant. In the latter case, they actually give enhanced functionality to current owners FOR FREE. This is a worthy evaluation point to consider. Sure, Novation didn’t release a new synth in the last two years. However, the BassStation 2 update and the Peak/Summit updates have been extraordinary! I think there’s something even more important about a company that improves a synth after you already own it as opposed to trying to get more of your $$$.
Others who are winning in the area of firmware updates:
Arturia
Ashun Sound Machines
Synthstrom Audible
Keep up the great work!
Peace.
Agreed about Synthstrom. The Deluge is my dream machine. Hopefully I'll be able to get it in the next few years at some point. But it finally got wavetable synthesis really recently which is just awesome. That thing is a beast. I don't think I've ever seen a more feature-complete groovebox. Or, at least, a groovebox that's portable.
And guess who fails?
Roland, Akai, ... Not because they don't update period but because if they do, they don't fix the big issues, they take years to get to whatever they claim to fix, and their updates often are tied to trick bags to corrall you into buying new sound sets no one asked for or they replace the old product with something else in 1 or 2 years and never fix the old one so you are out hundreds of not thousands of dollars.
Totally don't care about customers, just their bottom line and taking advantage of customers who are unaware of their little games.
Arturia ships everything with bugs. Terrible company. Good for instagram.
@@new.romance999 - I have a BeatStep Pro, a MicroFreak, and a MatrixBrute and I don't know what you mean by "bugs." Can you provide examples? And specifically for these three devices because you said that they ship "everything" with bugs. I look forward to better understanding how they have let us down. Thanks.
It's always interesting to see how folks approach all this stuff. Like if I were to make this kind of list it would be way more sampler and drum machine focused. And I lean towards desktop offerings. So Yamaha would be a non-entity. Akai would have to be in the mix. Roland might just be S tier for everything you mentioned plus the new 404. Also, I've spent a bunch of time making drum sounds on the Craft and Skulpt so I'd really be interested in seeing what they'd do with a drum machine. So yeah, very cool video, dude
same as most beats are drum/bass machines and samplers
Erica Synths on eurorack rating is definitely A tier, for desktop synths, I agree a B rating is fair. Their sweet spot is eurorack modules.
Didnt novation release circuit tracks and rhythm? Not counted here because they are grooveboxes I assume.
So if Sequential put out a lower cost product, one which inevitably would be lower quality and/or more limited in functionality than what they currently offer, you’d rank them higher?
I would have a hard time where to put Teenage Engineering. They're synths are really original, unique and fun. But the build quality of the OP-Z relative to the price is really not good. Also i'm not sure if they're listening to their customers, they seem to always go their own way.
really awesome take and insight; the list cannot contain every company under the sun, but as far as innovation and quality would deff put
-Soma Labs up there even tho its a small range of instruments as far as inspiration/innovation/quality goes ( pulsar and lyra) are insane.
-Bastl instruments would also fall into the Soma category of creating inspiring instruments.
Yamaha as much as i love the CP and DX from the reface line yea.. wish they had more output of products.
Elektron is extremely exciting.
Another thing to consider is the n/zyme Model Expansion, that came with the 3.0 update, for the flagship Fantom, this year. Although it is only 100 or so patches, the expansion adds the wave table element, that really changes the level of synthesis. Personally, I love the expansion. If Roland were to beef it up (by adding a couple hundred more patches) in a future update, it would earn the Fantom the title that Roland put under their keyboard classification (it says synthesizer instead of workstation). That said, they are trying...just not quite there yet.
Love your videos! Thanks again for hanging out with us on Ave's channel. See you at NAMM!
Arturia, TE, and especially Behringer should be extremely grateful for their placements on this chart!
Well, I was hoping you'd move the forces of Arturia again this year with the Polyfreak comment, but it's been a week and still no launch. Not sure what they're waiting for, you summoned them properly.
We will have a release yet, it’s a guarantee. I’m willing it into existence. They’re just too good at hiding it from Tom at Synth Anatomy 😉🥹
@@NoirEtBlancVie I wonder how many keys the capacitive keybed has. I guess I can wait 3 more days for Superbooth. 😅
Added Erica Synths but no Dreadbox?
Surprised you didn’t wait to after SuperBooth and NAMM. Maybe add in Sonicware. Looks like Arturia going to drop a poly on 10th May.
Still waiting for my Korg Volca FM2. The release date in France was initially planned for May 6th, but when I got to my music store, they were quite embarassed to tell me that the release date was postponed to mid-June. After seeing tons of videos about this synth made by influencers who received it a long time ago, I just feel like Korg did screw up their marketing plan.
Do you have a desktop synth tier? Tulare would be interesting
Really good list and some good points made. Given your parameters, i think it's pretty close to what i would rank, although I think if you include a few other Erica Synths products like their Matrix Mixer & Zen Delay pedal, they are easily an "A", which is amazing for such a small company.
Oh, and a note on the Modal "00" line that you mentioned... I recently discovered that line and was so intrigued that I reached out to Modal support and they kindly and quickly answered my question. Basically, these 3 synths have NOT been discontinued, which is why they still appear in the products section of their website. However, they are currently unable to produce them due to the chip shortage. They weren't able to provide any estimate on them becoming available again but hopefully it will happen eventually as those things looks amazing!
I feel the same about behringer. I prefer synths with patch memory, so all the cool stuff that behringer is working on is lost on me, unfortunately.
yeah i'm with you 100% on the patch memory thing... certainly i'm also not a fan of their owner, or their business direction of basically just copying other company's synths using cheap components... but no patch memory is a deal breaker. Can't imagine working hard to dial in the exact sound you're looking for, only to not be able to save it for instant recall later... just baffling to me anyway, and the reason i ended up with a Subsequent 37 but wont even consider other mid-range Moogs. To each their own i guess ;-)
Good to see Nord on the list. Quite rightly so.
Arturia offering something new in a few days, maybe hardware?
good review, thanks. re sequential: dave & tom oberheim have drunk their own mezcal: 40 years and ob-5000meh main innovation is got rid of the heatsink? ok it can blend b/w ob8, x &c but at some point you want to step in the 21st century - come up w a new waveshape, add a korg kaoss touchpad, mpe gesture control
Sonicware?
... missed the mark by not mentioning them and what they are doing at a sweet price point.
Other than that... great video and also I hope you increase your output presence on this media. Always a joy to watch your content.
Your channel is 🔥
On my list, Korg would not get more than a B, due to it's sometimes uninspiring tones. I also feel like they are always missing a feature that we all want.
BUT, I don't think I have 1 company under S. MAYBE Moog, but they are just so pricey.
seems like a reasonable ranking. If we start to consider all the smaller/boutique companies (including Eurorack world) there's a lot of good gear out there! What a time for making music!
Sequential has their partnership with Toshiba with a low-cost Toriaz AS-1 module which has a mono Prophet 6 voice.
At least summit/peak got some major firmware updates keeping them relevant, but I agree they could've added something new to the lineup this past year.
You were way kinder to Roland than most regarding the Juno X. I agree with your list.
Korg is best 💜
Prologue fan here. "Underrealized" maybe but It's shocking how underrated it is. It beats the rev 2 on core sound/tone (equals or beats the prophet 6 or ob6 imo) is the smallest and lightest flasgship analog that still has a 5 octave keybed so it's great for gigging, and beats just about every analog poly in polyphony except the moog one and Andromeda, and then there's the multi engine which gives you fm, wavetables and a bunch of other software sound engines from 3rd parties. Its drawbacks (no aftertouch, one lfo) aren't really that much of a problem. For how good it can sound it is the best value for the money of any analog polysynth on the market. I recently got a Prophet 5 rev 4, one of the best sounding analogs ever made and the prologue can absolutely hold its own alongside it.
Roland did a great job with the boutique TB03 and TR08 recreations- battery powered, speakers, easy to use and sound great for the money. My pair of on the go synths along with my OP-1. Love my Octatrack but it needs overbridge support and update. Rytm MK2 favorite drum synth as it easy to use and sounds great.
Have you tried the GS E-7? Would like to see your thoughts on that one
Wait... what about Novation Circuit Tracks and Rhythm?
And Roland just dropped their little Volc... um, mini Airas which pack some decent, if somewhat dated punch.
I would rank Modal higher. Not only are their synths very high quality and extremely flexible, they are also releasing software updates all the time that expand the possibilities of their current synths.
@AlgoCompSynth by znmeb Do you want to buy a 5th Craft 2.0 cause i detest the sound it puts out lol.
@AlgoCompSynth by znmeb I have an Argon 8X. It is incredible!
Maybe another way to think about Sequential and Novation is as a whole, like how Hyundai has their main brand of cars for entry-level stuff and then their Genesis brand for high end luxury cars. Novation handles a lot of the entry level needs with stuff like Circuit, Bass Station, and Mini-Nova through to Peak, and then about where Novation stops Sequential starts at $1500 and goes up from there (with the Summit being a bit of an outlier, but hey no corporate strategy is perfect). Granted, they don't share common design/branding. Together though I think they're an S-tier.
I love your content brother! I have to say though… Erika is S Tier, even if you aren’t a “Eurorack person” their offerings like the Fusion System II and Techno System offer easy entry into Eurorack with unique sounding, self-contained 104hp or 2x104hp systems-it’s how I got started in Eurorack.
The Perkons, Syntrx, Bassline, LXR02 all offer insanely reasonably priced instruments for what they offer. They have something in essentially every price bracket and then if you look at their Eurorack stuff? They’re GOATed.
🐐
Interesting and useful…and the thing with Sequential is that it would be nice for them to have another actual entry level synth. Maybe like a full on groove box in the Evolver and Mopho mold.
The list doesn't make any sense :D
However, I'd love to hear a comparison between the PolyBrute and Prophet 6 ... or Rev2 (my favorite of the current Sequential line-up)
Novation should look to fill out the middle of their product range. Something around the 700-800 mark. That said, Peak is the synthesizer I use the most. It's so versatile, and sounds physical. A Summit would be great too. Before a slew of other monosynths came out in competition, the Basstation II really was the best bang-for-buck monosynth. It's still great, but it does have plenty of competition now. Personally, I think the current Roland synth range doesn't really deserve the name (drum machines are good though). I'd put Arturia A, the Polybrute is a definite contender for best analogue polysynth. And I love my microfreak, especially as the firmware updates have been brilliant. But kudos for holding them below an A, so they deliver a Polyfreak. I'd love to see them put their FX in an 8 voice poly, that had the Polybrute analogue engine, but with a Microfreak oscillator added too, and a 8 part keystep. Great to see Waldorf pushing ever more strongly. And hopefully UDO and ASM will put out more synths as interesting as their firsts. Dreadbox are able to make great synths too, I hope they'll build their line out.
Novation bought Sequential, i could imagine that they will adapt some technologies first and then create some new synth or reearrange their portfolio strategy for the future.
No, Focusrite bought Sequential. Focusrite also bought Novation.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Yeah you are right and they bought adam audio too..
There’s a new partnership with Oberheim as well. I’m expecting interesting things in the next few years.
No Soma Labs? Lol
I agree with most but without bias Roland just can't be anywhere near top tier anymore. Ignoring what people actually want, everytime, for no reason has to weigh heavier. I think only their legacy and other products outside the synth domain is keeping them afloat. Behringer and them should swap places imo because if enough people ask for something on their forum, they will make it or recreate it eventually even when we have to beg the original companies to do so and they never do
Behringer being at B is pretty fair imo. Korg and Behringer are my favs currently!
Honestly I would love a PolyFreak or SuperFreak from Arturia
Arturia better release that Polyfreak.
I'm looking forward to the behringer proton, a beefed up neutron.
I think you can understand exactly what kind of person someone is based on how they feel about Behringer
Korg knows how to win the current market. Roland strangely knows how to win the future market, which is why some of their synths only become popular when they’re no longer in production!! Some one could say they’re just too ahead of their time.
I’m still shocked at how underrated your channel is, especially with the production quality you bring to each video. It’s honestly criminal that your videos don’t get more views lmao.
Thanks, I like keeping it small, just try and make fun stuff, don’t worry too much about new gear. Very happy you like it though ☺️
@@NoirEtBlancVie You certainly succeed at making your videos fun for sure, as well as super informative and helpful. Thanks for all your hard work man.
Korg remains the cool kid!
Being a Korg geek since the first Triton, I agree with you on the sentiment.
I hope behringer will do like a Ibanez with guitars - begins with copies, then follow up with original designs!
YOOO the shoutout, thanks king 😂🙏🙏 Yeah reface CP is way way good, I wish they were more available.
perfect...you got it..
MY BODY IS READY
It's interesting to see your view on the different brands and in some parts I agree in some I don't, but as you said in the Video, those are personal opinions.
On thing that made me raise an eyebrow was that you said that the Nord keyboards are too expensive, even for you, but you then go on an mention that you own a Waldorf Quantum which costs more then the Nord keyboards. So I'm curious now. What makes the Quantum worth the hefty price tag for you and the Nord keyboards not?
I'm longing for a Waldorf Iridium myself. And yes at first sight the Iridium feels like a cheaper offering when the Quantum's hefty price tag is to much, but at a closer look I think it's not entirely the case. Like because of the completely digital design the Iridium has 16 voice polyphony vs the 8 voice polyphony of the Quantum. Depending on one's usage case, the Iridium might even be the better option compared to the Quantum.
For me the Iridium desktop is the perfect option because of it's size and the lower price tag compared to the keyboard version and the Quantum and the 16 vs. 8 voice polyphony is the icing on top. Though I really would love the Iridium keyboard version because it has that nice Fatar polyphonic after touch keyboard, but there is only so much space in my home studio.
Anyway thanks for the video :)
Great point, and you totally watched the video (I can tell 😉) So for some context, I definitely was only referring to the Electro 6D as too expensive for me, and that’s mainly because I love the waterfall keys. The Rhodes, Wurly and Organ patches for live performance are so good, but I don’t do that anymore, so the Yamaha CP just for fun at home for $400 can easily replace the Nord sonically.
As for the Quantum, so, I should make it clear that I got my Quantum as a dent/scratch unit for like $3500, far less than the unbelievable $5000 they’re at now, (sheesh that price🙄), I wouldn’t buy a Quantum at that price today, but, I just love love love the UI on the Quantum EVEN THOUGH it’s still buggy at times. There’s just something about the integration of knobs and that screen, it’s like a VST, but I hate mousing around and I’m a huge knob per function person so I’m a sucker for it. Iridium will get you there, so don’t hesitate, like I said, I think the Iridium keys was purpose made for people who couldn’t imagine spending $5000 on a Quantum ☺️
@@NoirEtBlancVie Ah I see. Thanks for the insight. I feel similar about the Nord Stage and Electro Line. I would love one but I never could justify the expense just for fun at home. And yeah the $5000 price tag of the Quantum nowadays is a big oof.
I agree with your tier list! I also have a kind of similar experience with Elektron.. I had a digitakt for a year, produced some great stuff but the workflow isn't intuitive for me.. I always had to find the manual, or watch a vid to get something done. and the menu diving is suuuper tedious. That being said, everytime I watch a new vid of the digitakt, syntakt, octatrak, etc.. I always want to dive into the world of Elektron again. Elektron products seem to be a cornerstone for many studios.
nO cAsIo?
Montage doesn’t deliver a rich user experience. But the synth, somewhere part is super cool but you need to dig way to deep to get it
Moog S tier 🔥🔥
Arturia deserve A tier IMO
Good video dude!
Eurorack synths?
Come now, what has Roland done in years to be given an A? Especially after continually taking no interest in actually hearing what their audience wants? It's bad, really bad, and far too prevalent. It's sub B for sure.
Remember when Roland came out with that all analog beast with like 16 voices, they built off the Juno architecture and also included the supernatural engine and had a extremely usable UI…
Nevermind, that never happened. 😁
Arturia needs to make their firmware a little better. They are very glitchy.
I bought a Behringer 2600 clone last year and absolutely love it. I can’t afford a Korg 2600 or an Antonous (…yet) but it’s absolutely amazing for the money
Plus the Behringer 2600 actually has the controls Korg purposely left off the 2600M, so I’d say you made a wise choice!
@@NoirEtBlancVie my friend said if you cover up the “Behringer” logo, it sounds 30% better lol
@@Colonel_Satan and the when you look at your bank account balance it sounds the other 70% better 😂
How so? Deepmind 12 is so much value for prrice
Just gonna sit back and watch the comments 😜
That OP-1 is something I’m planning on getting for sure! The design of it just looks so cool to me!!
2023 update???
GREAT RANKINGS..
Ooh controversial indeed ;)
(I revised my original)
S - no one (but it could be several niche picks from superbooth22, like that russian one with clocks... Motorsynth 2 )
A+ Behringer! - "synthesizers for the people" - UB-Xa, Model 15...;
A - Roland for their ZenCore integration updates and new ventures in Aira; Arturia - for most persitently useful upgrades;
B+! for Korg (i'm a Korg fanboy and would give'em C-! for the release of faulty modwave to the market (WTF!). They redeemed themselves for their native VST's this year. FM2 and NTS2 is welcomed but nowhere near impressive);
B - Elektron, Syntakt might just be the best groovebox/electribe ever!; Dreadbox - solid Nymphes, Erebus 2; TE - whatever calculators you do...;
C - Modal - buzzy hardware, love the sound, but fix that buzz man!; Sequential - Oberheim looks to be awesome; Moog (yeah it's a Moog, get over it);
D - Nord and Kurzweil - solid stage; Yamaha - welcome to the church, nice organ.; Novation - yo, what's happening? Are we moving?;
I'm dropping Erica Synths as boutique modular manufacturer. VMS Synthi copy could be an "A" on its own though.
Notable synths to watch for: Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave, Melbourne Instruments NINA,
Based on this list Roland should clearly be top S tier and Sequential a B or a C.
i dig it
UDO next year?
If they release a few more models maybe, really hard to gauge companies with 1 or 2 offerings against those with 10+ currents offerings and legacy products.
UDO is one of my new faves, but 🤷🏾♂️
The only one I would disagree with is Erica Synths, for me that's an "A+"! I have their Techno System, Pico 3 System, the DB01 and Zen Delay!
agree they make awesome gear but desktop synths I have not used any Erica Stuff just their amazing modular stuff
great list only change i do on sound alone for stage use sequential is a s tier..not sure on the fan boy love for korg same old sounds maybe b tier if that..nord maybe a b to a ....behringer should even be reviewed for the cheap junk copys made by china kids if you had h tier..kids save your money and buy somthing that sounds cool
Man, say what you want, but Elektron has the most fluid workflow once you get into it, and the updates keep getting better. Yes, I'm totally bias.