Just to point out pricing, availability, compatibility (console vs PC) and even specs are all accurate at the time of recording based on the websites shown, a lot will vary depending where you are in the world and what platform you are on... I can't cover every possible variation and option, thanks!
What if am interested in 3rd pedal and shifter and handbrake from day one as for sim racing as a starter for ps5, what do u recommend . Flexible but not crazy budget
I watched this video during research for my purchase and found it very useful. A few days ago (Aug 2024) I bought a T300 RS GT. It was on offer for £280, which meant I could get a decent small-size rig for the wheel and pedals within my budget of £400. The last time I used a wheel was when I bought a PS1 bundle in 1998 that included Colin McRae Rally, a TV, and a wheel. So things have moved on a bit since then!! For anyone who wants an honest opinion and has essentially zero experience of racing a modern sim wheel - The T300 RS will be such a game changer for you compared to a pad that you will not be disappointed. I was slower than pad for a few hours, then as I mucked about with settings, positions etc, and generally got used to it, I'm now faster and I have further to go in terms of improvement. The conversations about an extra £20 here or a DD vs belt there are obviously valid, but imo this is the same as we have in the mountain biking world - your budget is your budget and there is ALWAYS a better feature you can get for a 5% increase in budget, that honestly won't make enough of a difference to introduce buyer's remorse. For me, the fact this wheel has been around for basically 10 years and was still in the conversation was the validation I needed to buy it, and I'm not disappointed. I hope this helps anyone mulling it over.
the difference really is immersion. Belt driven wheels just dont compare to a DD wheel, not even close. I've had all 3 options, and looking back I wish I would've just paid more from the start. Eventually, if you stick with it, you WILL want to upgrade, so save yourself the trouble and get it now. I'm not saying drop $1000 on just a wheel, but like he mentioned, its $20 more to upgrade to fanatec from the Thrustmaster you bought, now it'll cost you $600-ish total to upgrade, when that extra $20 would've made a WORLD of difference, saved you money down the line, AND there's a massive market of upgrade potentional with the CSL DD, considering all the wheel options, pedal upgrades in house, shifters and etc. In reality, paying that extra $20 is much more financially smart, and much more fun for the money.
I bought a Logitech DFGT when it first came out in 2008 with PS3 and Gran Turismo 5. It was a lot of money to drop on a wheel back then and it absolutely blew me away. I kept that wheel and used it on the PS3, and my PC until late last year when I finally uograded to a direct drive wheel, so it lasted me 15 years of almost daily use. I gifted it to a friend to get them started in sim racing. I looked at Fanatec, Moza, all the other more expensive brands like asetek, simucube etc, but finally settled on a Cammus C5 due to its unique design, and the fact it was so easy to desk mount. I got one of the very first models in the UK (serial number is just double digit) and I have once again been blown away. Every firmware update adds something new, kmh/mph and Gear indicator additions, changing rev lights etc. The FFB improves all the time and feels every bit as good as its competitors. The wheel is rated 5NM constant torqu with 6-7NM at peak so there is enough power there for sure. I do wish they had gone for a round wheel design rather than the D shape, just for the rally driving and for those that drift. Hopefully they will find a way to easily change the wheel (Though not quick release) or bring out specific Formula type rims on the same hub design. Either way, I am once again blown away by the jump to Direct Drive as I was with the original jump to a FFB wheel. I didn't bother with the CP5 pedals are they do look a "Bit Pony" lol. I kept my T3PA pro's. Keep up the good work Karl.
It's hilarious that g29/920 is still holding up today xD Great for beginners and sufficient for most even experienced users in my opinion. On top of that, loud gears are an advantage as they sound exactly like my power steering in my corsa c for maximum immersion.
Got C5 from UK reseller few months ago. Arrived in 3 days. No problems whatsoever since, upgraded the paddles right away though. Feels more rigid than any DD I've tested due to lack of QR or base. Looks a bit silly but that's a no issue in VR.
I started with the G29 and I'm still believe it's the best starter. it works right out of Box And everything just works. A year. Later I went to the c s l DD huge learning Curve had to learn how to tweak all kinds of things really complicated. Still trying to figure it out.
@@TonesAtTinwell Yeah, It's a fallacy that a DD wheel will make you faster, any more than VR will. It only helps with immersion. I just traded my 10 year old T300 for a DD wheel, and I'm actually slower so far...
@@gomezthechimp1116 That's a fallacy too. A DD will make you better if you are good enough. Average drivers will be as fast as Max Verstappen when driving a Fiat 500 but when you give Max a F1 he becomes much faster while average drivers will just kill themselves in a F1. Good professionals will improve their work using good tools, amateurs won't see any difference because they aren't good enough.
It's got to be a Cammus C5 paired with Simjack or Simpson pro pedals both will set you back £400, £150 for the pedals and £250 for the Cammus C5 wheel with mounting.
You do have to remember with fanatec. In the uk, you will have the vat and Import charges to deal with. Probably closer to £500 all in. Hopefully with the takeover they will start stocking with retailers and save unexpected costs. I had the thrustmaster tx, just bought a fanatec csl dd with the loadcell pedal. I'm very happy with my purchase! Great video as always!
I never looked for Direct Drive, because in my head there was still the opinion that they were just too expensive for me. But it never occurred to me to look at the price again after a few years. Your video was very helpful, thanks for that!
I'm just editing a video review on R5 vs C5, the logitech killers, and I saw this and thought oh god Karl has done me! But yes I am amazed at the C5 for the price, I am worried the video will look like im a cammus shill (im not) but the entry level is better than ever by far! Great info as always Karl!
I'm more or less a casual who simply wants to play GTR2, Race 07, rFactor, and some F1 games using wheels. Moreover, I live in a third world country (so to say) and over here the cost of entry level FFB wheel can be considered high. More expensive options like Fanatec already sits within luxury level of stuff, while Cammus C5 hasn't entered our market yet as far as I know. Over here, a set of Logitech G29 is priced around 4 million rupiahs (around 250 USD), and for us over here that amount is quite a lot. Thrustmaster T300RS GT is priced around 2.5 millions rupiahs / 150 USD more than G29. That extra 2.5 mil is a lot if you ask me. Then there are Chinese brands like PXN, which I consider questionable. Among those, G29 is actually the easiest one to get, as I could buy it offline unlike the others. At the end of the day I decided to go with G29 and live with it. It's been six month since the purchase, and I'm happy with it. It doesn't feel like driving a real car, of course, but still enjoyable enough. By the time my G29 decides to die, perhaps, I have enough sitting money to buy something much, much better, but for now I'm more than satisfied with what I have.
I bought the Thrustmaster a while back and there was still a big price difference between that and higher spec stuff. Good to seeing prices coming down.
You always have some of the best takes on these things. IMO, the Fanatec is the logical choice. The price is right, and the ability to upgrade to 8nm at a later date for a fraction of the money it would cost to upgrade your entire base with Moza. And while i haven't used a Moza, I know that I am more than happy with my CSL DD, especially once i upgraded to 8nm. I guess that Fanatec bankruptcy thing kind of muddies the waters a bit, but I'd still go Fanatec. BTW, I'm 2 years into having my CSL w/LC pedals, and 1 year with my CSL wheel base, and have yet to have a single issue with any of it, and I use my sim gear A LOT, and I'm not gentle with it either. I treat the stuff like I do IRL cars when pushing hard, and it takes the punishment with ease. Great product, with an ecosystem that is totally unparalleled, at a great price. Clear winner (at least IMO).
I have all three Moza R5, CSL DD 8nm and Cammus C5, C5 is stronger, more detailed and far more immersive drive than the other two. Its a night and day difference. I also have the R12 and when i switch to the C5 for a few weeks it is a very pleasant experience. Less powerful than the R12 ofcourse but enough power to not miss the additional torque. Selling the R5 and CSL DD...CSL 8nm was by far the worse of the three. R5 comes second needs a fair bit of fine tuning in settings, but leaps ahead of CSL DD in terms of power and detail. C5 has it flaws with the wheel being small and not replaceable, and the small shifters, but the power and the FFB detail makes up for it. I say this all when I was actually hoping for my Fanatec to be the better of the three, only reason I had the other two was because fanatec took months to deliver and in that time i found the other two for less than 350 collectively on FB marketplace! I will be selling the fanatec and moza, the good thing with Fanatec DD is the price will hold relatively stronger than the other two. CSL DD failed on two different points of the quick release, the USB C connection and the clamp interface, had to send it back twice. Pisspoor design with unnecessary amount of failure points from poor design. One sniff of a Moza quick release and you'll never touch fanatec again. The software has come so far that its ahead of Fanatec. Fanatec does make the best pedals out of them all thou, atleast at the entry level. I'm never selling my Elite V2 load cells, even though im on simjacks now.
Corsair has bought Fanatec! No more worrying about whether Fanatec will survive or be around in the future! More competition! This is great for consumers!
My first wheel was the mid 90s with the original Thrustmaster Formula T1, and 2-1/2 years ago I bought a used T300RS GT with T3PA-Pro pedals. I bought a new Sparco P310 wheel rim, new TH8A shifter and new TSS handbrake. At the time, what I spent on everything, I couldn't touch a beginner DD base, standard wheel rim, and 2 pedals set for that same amount. If/when I get the time to use it more and budget, I would like to eventually upgrade to a full motion rig and a nice DD setup. But that is a dream and will not happen any time in the near future!
A used Logitech wheel from fb marketplace is still the best value entry point imo, forget about brand new for your first wheel. If you enjoy the hobby then go straight to dd.
I have been using the g29 for years and looking at getting Moza set up for Trucking Sim. I will never knock the g29. Really a great starter and I will pass it to a friend to make sure they like having a setup. Then go DD unit.
I shot for MOZA base (r12) and wheel (cs) and have found it to be spot on, can’t fault the quality whatsoever, and the quick release is perfect 👌👌 that’s something worth remembering that with the fanatec you would get the crap qr1 at that price. I did shoot for a used set of fanatec csl v3 pedals though after your review of the MOZA pedals wasn’t great, but they do seem to have an updated version out so hopefully the issues you found there have been fixed. They seem to be doing the right things and seem to be listening to the community which is very promising for the future
I think one of the most important aspects for entry-level products has to be upgradability. Fanatec clearly offer the best route. You can start with the 399 bundle and later add the Boost Kit to make 8NM which is the sweet spot for many. You can later add the load cell pedal, or probably you should start with this upgrade. Then you can buy other wheels like the McLaren GT3 which one of the best for the price. The other brands, you have no other choice but to buy a new base for full price. I know Fanatec have had their problems, but lately, they had big improvements. The only big problem I still find with them is the QR1. They should definitely switch all future purchases to QR2 automatically.
Compared to the cammus c5, the csl dd is not a good deal. The c5 doesn't have any flex and is solid as it gets. To have the same experience with the csl dd, you will have to buy the boostkit (then still you don't have the power if the c5, but very close), you will have to upgrade to qr2 and you would need to buy one of their better rims.... Even with the discounted price of 199€ for the csl dd, you will pay over 300% of cost of the c5. Fanatec however you look at it, is not worth it.
@@azamat19 Fanatec offers better pedals, wheels, console compatibility... The C5 is stuck with what it is, including a flat bottom road car wheel that works but doesn't match the most popular racing divisions. It's not bad for what it is and it's cheaper, if you don't value the other factors Also you should check your math, the CSL basic setup is $399, with pedals and everything you need
@@zmmmzmmmz what??? First of all it doesn't matter which company you buy pedals from, you can just mix them. Lc100 pedals qre far superior to v3 pedals but i would just buy vrs or simagic p1000 pedals. 399€ set for fanatec is compete garbage. Need to upgrade to qr2 wnd buy a higher end rim and the boost kit zu be comparable to c5. Console compatibility... Well if we are talking about simracing, theres no alternative to pc.
You’ve come a long way since the early days. Reigning in all the old f-bombs has really elevated the quality of your reviews. Really enjoying your content sir. Keep it up.
It's unfortunate you have to self self censor as swearing is a genuine part of being an authentic brit lol When in Rome and all that I guess 😂@@KarlGosling
For Fanatec you also need to account shipping which, at least in europe, is another 60-70 euros. For Cammus is even worse, shipping costs were as much as the bundle itself almost. These things need to be taken into account and talked about also.
After playing GT7 on my PS5 for the last few weeks , i made up my mind to buy a wheel and i can say it is a eye opener and minefield trying to buy one if you are a beginner .After watching a few you tubers for help and advice came across your channel .And all l can say is thank for your help,advice and reviews. Cheers
i managed to snipe a Fanatec CSL elite (with BMW wheel and new CSL pedals) for 200€ - safe to say it feels like a DD (I’ve used some) great value for money and has served me well! Also look at the used market!
With T300 you are paying for PS support. Cheapest DD wheel with PS support is 700€. But yeah for pc users going for entry level DD is a nobrainer nowadays. Moza R5 would be my choice as long as Fanatec is dealing with customer support issues. I splurged and went for Logitech Pro. Absolutely loving the thing.
I thought the same with the Moza R5 but I got the R9 instead with the better wheel. Omg I'm glad I did. That thing is stronger than I thought, like or can be a workout.
For those with a PS4 or those who like to live dangerously on PS5, there's also the DriveHub. I've used it with an Xbox thrust master TX and a CSL DD (regular) on my PS5 with GT7
@@zmmmzmmmz yeah i thought about that but i like my setup to be completely plug and play and i heard the ffb is not as good as native support. So i went for the Logitech DD pro. Very happy with it. If i was pc only i would have gone with Moza or Fanatec for sure.
@@MrCamel254 hard to say without having both, there are different compatibility modes, I think with full support the DriveHub basically tells the console you are using the equivalent gear - so PS5 sees my tx as a t300 and CSL DD as the GT version - if hardware is the same, it should be close
@@VirtualRyders I chuckled when I read your comment. First time I used the G Pro wheel I was wrestling with it thinking man, this ffb is bloody hard work! What the hell is this set on, max? Nope, it was at 5.5nm. I think that will do me for now.
Thank you, I'm looking around trying to find my first wheel and I want to get something good, and, I think fanatec is gonna be my choice, so thanks for helping me look at options.
No problem! Fanatec are again a solid option now Corsair have secured the business, link in the description if you're after a small discount (whilst it's still active).
Good point Karl, but in my opinion the smoothness of a downgraded DD is a small difference that doesn't justify a doubled price and doesn't make you faster. If i could invest 200 extra euro I would choose a load cell set of pedals that makes you more consistent while driving . In my opinion....😊
You can be fast on almost any wheel base (Logitech included), but this video is about what you might buy as your first setup for the same money not double or talking about upgrades like a LC brake.
A clutch is useful for race starts especially with iRacing adding a setting especially for starts. I guess it comes down to cheap plastic junk going up in flames . For me long term reliability is the benchmark.
There's no wrong information, I quoted the relevant websites word for word (not specifying peak or holding) as it's a price comparison video not a wheel vs wheel video... it's up to you as the viewer to research and decide which is best for you also as I said in the video.
the csl dd with booster pack i just bought for £394 including shipping obv depends when it turns up also when u make an account also gives bigger discount
@@KarlGosling The point is that in a Moza R3 you can change the wheel but shouldn't. It works fine with its 280mm wheel (I think its the ES model) but all their other wheels are bigger and heavier. All reviews I've seen say exactly the same: R3 works nice until you use a different wheel. It has too little force for a 300mm, much less for a 330mm wheel. All other Moza wheels are bigger and the only other 280mm wheel is their FSR which is much heavier than the ES and costs 699€. One must be really crazy or lacking too much brain to buy a R3 and pair it with a 699€ wheel. The same goes for the CSL DD which is 5.5nm PEAK torque. Being able to change the wheel doesn't mean you should, like being able to chop your own leg with a spoon doesn't mean you should do it.
Heya. Great vid! I’m about to build my first sim racing setup, is the following fine: - fanatec Csl dd ready2race bundle, 5nm - SSH thorn shifter - the GT omega apex wheel stand to mount everything In the future, I may upgrade to 8nm, and might add a load cell pedal Note: I only play on PC, and I mainly play euro truck 2 Thanks for the amazing vid again!
I've not used a SSH shifter so can't comment on that but the Fanatec bundle is fine and I'd wait till the other side of the weekend as GT Omega may have a better wheel stand for the same money coming...😉
hey Karl! New to SIM racing (GT7 on PS5( subscriber from the US and though i have dabbled over years, I only REALLY got into it a couple of weeks ago. Bought a used Logitech G29 for $100 US and it works... ok... but doesn't really feel like a real wheel. So when I saw that Fanatec had a $400 US bundle, I was quite excited. But then I went to their website and saw that the only PS option is $700 US, though admittedly a better wheel. I also saw a clutch pedal is extra. Not necessarily a deal breaker as I am using the paddles to shift as I am still learning, but I do come from a manual shifting and doouble-clutching background dating back to my Dad's 52 Willy's jeep, my cars from the past including 67 Austin Healy Sprite, 67 Camaro, and 70 Formula 400 Firebird. Unfortunately, it appears that the Moza and Camus do not appear to have PS5 support so my only upgrade path is to a Thrustmaster 300 or the Fanatec GT bundle. If its $400 for the Thrustmaster and $700 base for the Fanatec, it seems the Fanatec is my best route (as long as the wife doesn't know how much it costs.). Does that make sense? Any further advice would be greatly appreciated.
@@nunyabizz50 Yes spend 2800$ on a laptop save 300, and then its weaker then a 1600$ PC, wonderful idea. Also he wants to play grand turismo a PlayStation exclusive. Very Very good idea.
@@Cyclops_Cool i bought mine for $1899. And there are better driving games on PC than PS. laptops are a good portable option today. Mine runs everything I throw at it on max settings. And yeah, save the $300 is like getting the new laptop for $1600 that runs everything and you can take it anywhere. Much better option
@@daniellund6159 Yeah its more expensive but you have to calculate some further costs for the Fanatec offer. First of all to get a loadcell you have to put down an additional 129€, then for the boost kit to 8 NM you have to put down another 150€ (you can buy the chinese one but you void your warranty if something happens with it), then you get a really shitty quick release with the bundle so to get the most out of your fanatec wheel you need to get the QR2 bundle. Another 150€. If you count in all those additional hidden costs the price difference to a logitech pro set is shrinking. I paid 190€ more than the bundle i mentioned here for the Logitech one and for that i get 3 additional NM torque, trueforce and better warranty. Fanatec surely is more humane if you want to save up to slowly upgrade your gear, but if you have the money, Logitech is a compelling competitor imho.
This puts thrustmaster in a bit of a difficult situation really. It kind of makes them irrelevant at their main price point which around 380 to 450 for most popular bundles. Logitech will still have the entry level market but everyone else should just go DD given the amazing deals on offer
Check second hand marketplaces for a G29/920. You can get good examples for 120-140. I lucked out last year with a G29 for £100 with hardly any use and 4 months warranty remaining. Yes, I'd love a DD model, but it's still out of my price range.
I’m actually looking at buying the HORI truck wheel as I play more ATS and ETS2 as I’m crap at racing now. Wouldn’t mind seeing an honest review if possible (but not out till end of year)
really boils down to what level of sim racing are you looking for? Just a 'casual' type of experience or are you really wanting to get into this and experience as close to 'real life' as possible...or at least what you can afford and what money can buy! Once you figure that out then you have to look at what you're willing to spend and that should lead you down the right path! :-) As for how to say "Fanatec"...go w/the how Thomas said it..."Fah-nat-ick"...he's the one who started the company! :-)
I'm using the Fanatec DD (5nm) with the f1 wheel, now looking for another set for my kiddo... and was also looking at the rigs, too bad GT Omega decided not to continue business in Canada, my money is going somewhere else.
I have a G29 and I've just (today) purchased a Simagic mini with the P1000 pedals and a GT neo wheel. I was shaking like a shitting dog spending time that much on a hobby but hey ho. Oh I should mention I only have a PS5. No pc yet 😂😂
The thing about those low end DD setups is that they’re only PC compatible. If I wanted a PS5 compatible setup the price would skyrocket quite fast. Also I think only Fanatec has console compatible DD setups at the “lower” end. The only other option is the Logitech DD setup which is a $1000+ high end setup (with pedals)
For what its worth, a G29 is a good wheel and compatible with a PS5. He says that the G29 is noisy and you can feel the gears which is simply not true! In all my 18 years racing on line I have had two of them and they are all you need in my opinion.
Interesting video. In addition to the budget/technology analysis I would add some considerations about the cockpit where these wheels should be installed. If people install a wheel on a desk or on a stand, I would not buy a heavy direct drive (wobbling around), better a lighter logitech that has also very good pedals. In short, the purchasing decision depends also where the wheel should be installed.
Not really mate, you can always down the FFB down to accommodate a wobbly desk but still retain the smoothness and detail a DD gives over the gear or belt driven options.
MOZA is the only way forward, nice feel great build quality all round, m8 got a Cammus & it looks ugly & it Feels awful too & he said he wishes now saved alittle extra for a MOZA SETUP 😀
@@DjShamusUK Moza R3 is only 3.9Nm and the R5 is £440, The Cammus is £211 as the site shows $279 for wheel and clamp, the £300 + on video was included the Campus pedals, So it's horses for courses the moza R3 is weak and the R5 is expensive at £440, especially when you can get the Cammus and simjacks both for under £400 total.
I love that moza is bringing affordable DD to Xbox users. Hopefully one day PlayStation will get affordable DD but for now Thrustmaster and Logitech are the cheap options and Fanatec has the market on PlayStation DD
You can't actually order Moza R3 bundle. As I understand it, they sent pre-release units out, but R3 doesn't have a release date. Anyhow, it's nice to see we have come so far. When Fanatec released DD 5/8nm, I was wondering if it's actually any cheaper to produce gear and belt driven wheels, or repackaged servo motors which are probably massively produced for other purposes too.
@@KarlGosling I'm from the EU, and I only see "Notify Me." When Will from Boosted Media made his big video, comparing everything, I think he said the same. Also, I haven't met* anyone anyone who have R3. *(discord, forums, reddit) Let's see, maybe someone will comment, and clarified the situation.
Except if you want to use on Playstation. Got a T300RS GT a few months ago, I do like it but I would love a DD. May look into a Fanatec or Simagic with the Sigma Cortex converter in the future.
argos and amazon do the t300 for 250/260 all the time on offer. but anybody starting out should get a 2nd hand t300 from marketplace. £150 gets you a nice 1 and shifters can be £25. wont lose value when you sell them to upgrade or if its not for you. fana stuff has 20% tax at customs too.
This channel is the shit!!! So informative for sim racers. I've brought the Gt omega Art from watching your videos. Got my fanatec gear gt DD pro and mclaren wheel on the way! Cannot wait to get it all set up! Cheers dude!
@@FlorauhGot my GT Omega Prime and triple screen stand based on his recommendation. The Prime is absolutwly rock solid and the stand arrives in the next couple of days!
There's 1 thing about Fanatec U never mentioned the Import duty.. that was another £50-80 on top if shipped to UK unless its changed in the last 6 month
I didn't mention it because that and VAT is included in the price you see on the site if you select UK, unless that has changed?! Plus tax, shipping etc will all vary for all products from all manufacturers depending where you are in the world, I can't cover every possible option.
Hey, I just wanna ask for your opinion, what kind of set up and which wheel should I get specifically for drifting- should I get full setup(wheel, shifter, 3 pedals, handbrake)?
PS5 user, are any of these plug and play or do i need a computer to get it working? I'm thinking Logitech or fanatec. Damn those shipping nightmare stories though.
Finally stepped up to a CSL DD and formula 2.5x on playseat challenge x Logitech, from a TX on wheel stand and it's a big upgrade. Do you have a recommendation for a round wheel to add for WRC and road cars?
What about the logitech pro wheel? Its direct drive and has 11 nm of torque. Was able to find one open box excellent for $920 just wasnt sure if its worthy of purchasing. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Thats double the price of most beginner wheels so I didn't mention it. But I'd choose another brand anyway, they never released any other wheels and the QR isn't great either. A Fanatec CSL DD is much better value with loads of options for pedals, wheels, etc.
The wheel won't help your lap times. Load cell and depth perception through VR has helped me more than anything. VR is a game changer. Dont forget, if you're on console only the majority of these direct drive setups are not available. You have to buy a 3k pc setup to use them. Monitor, keyboard, speakers.
Until you start adding postage etc.. Only available direct from Fanatec in Germany . I've just paid £145 postage for MOZA (R12 KS wheel and sr-p pedals) No U.K sellers have them ATM.
imho, if that beginner has been playing racing games on a joystick for years and they absolutely know they will use the wheelbase and pedals almost daily, I'd strongly recommend going straight into a load cell brake pedal because it will take up to 2 years to unlearn the muscle memory of a displacement brake pedal. (A year later, I still find myself using my shin muscles to lift off the brake pedal when I shouldn't use any shin muscles ever.) So the price to start off initially with a load cell pedal should be considered. In the end, a load cell pedal will make you brake better and thus go faster, and a better wheelbase will give you much more immersion and tactile satisfaction but won't necessarily make you faster. So are you about winning, or are you about satisfying? Winning is brake pedal. Satisfying tactile experience is wheelbase. If you can only have one, choose wisely.
Without a good wheel base you will not feel traction loss or understeer, more important than a LC brake IMO... But I agree a good brake is important too.
the only reason to look at R3 is if you only play on Xbox , i got the R5 bundle for $720 CAD after taxes and was such a HUGE jump from my TMX wheel , works great on iracing and ATS . and its pronounced failatec 😁 sorry had to
Just watching this video off the back of your MaxxTech Pro FFB Racing Wheel Kit video. Where would you place the MaxxTech in comparison for beginners/kids looking for their first wheel?
as a first setup, the 300rs with an optional 8A shifter seems like a really good deal to me ... especially if you have kids that need to understand to use them a little bit more ... gently ... fanatec has filed for bankruptcy i wouldn't trust them with anything
Thanks Karl! I'm actually now looking at the Moza R5 bundle, would you recommend that? Worried about the fanatec bankruptcy, so probably steer clear of their stuff at the moment.
Looking to get a wheel for my xbox. As for first time, I was thinking to get the thrustmaster t300rs ( tx version for xbox ) as can be found cheap on ebay or marketplace for my first wheel. I want to test the waters as it does have 5mm already if I’m right? Pedals might not be the greatest from what I’ve researched but is this a good plan before I invest in a good DD wheel with 8mm and above?
@@KarlGosling great. I literally was looking on ebay now on TS-XW series as after reading some forums people recommend it more? And as I binged watched your videos, last night I make up my mind into buying a GT OMEGA Apex stand as it ticks all the boxes for now. Thanks mate, really appreciate your work.
Most fanatec reviews are bad so im scared to buy from them now I know direct dive is the way to go but I was thinking tgt 2 with the loadcell peddels most fanatec I see is PC so I’m kinda at a lose moza 9 is strictly pc so idk what to buy I had a t300RS With the loadcell but the overheating issues killed my lap time
I'm still using a Thrustmaster T150, so I'm seriously thinking of grabbing the Cammus setup. I'm a pretty casual racer so I don't need a ridiculous amount of force, I just want a smoother, quieter experience. My question is the pedals. I watched your review on the Cammus and I think at that price point I could afford to spring for some better pedals. What would you recommend as a good budget set of pedals that would be an upgrade over the included ones without breaking the bank? I don't need load cell or anything fancy, but I would like some progressive resistance for the brake at least.
You really should go load cell mate, anything else just isn't worth the "upgrade"... Fanatec V2's are decent if you don't mind their current financial situation.
@@KarlGosling Thanks for the response! I actually think I'm going to get the Fanatek DD bundle. The fact that the pedals are upgradable to load cell put that over the top ahead of the Cammus and Moza offerings. That will allow me to get it now within my budget and upgrade the brake a bit later. Even without the load cell it should be a massive upgrade over what I'm using now (T150 pedals).
Hey what should I do I have a ps5 and want to get a race setup for Christmas but also I can drive later this year and want something that can kinda replicate a Honda
Hello! I was thinking about buying the T300 RS GT Edition or the G923, but I watched this video and you really helped me consider buying a steering wheel and I have a question, is it worth buying the Moza R5 bundle for Forzu Horizon 5?
Hi Karl!! Hoping you see this and get chance to reply, currys currently have a deal on the t300rs gt for £280. This would be the best option to go for RIGHT NOW right? I kind of want to be quick as i cant see them keeping that offer on to long. 😂
I own an T300 RS, and actually use the third pedal a lot when driving rally cars. As a nifty, foot actionned handbrake. I have to install and remove the sim gear from the desk everytime I play, so the more "combined" my stuff is, the better :D
@@KarlGosling yeah totally agreed, a weird, very small bunch of "pedal-it yourself" guys indeed ;o) Thank you for the video btw, I lost my manners in the process of protesting against the uselessness of the third pedal without a shifter ! I always enjoy watching your content :)
Hey Karl, I'm looking to get into sim racing and thinking about getting that Fanatec set up. Does it fit on the Playseat Evolution ActFit???? As that's what I'm looking to get too.
I actually bought the next level gt racer in the end. Not great but not completely shite. Just don't like the limited adjustments. Alright to get me going tho. Your reviews really do help.
Some wrong information here: C5 5nm is the holding torque not the peak torque. Cammus Claims 8nm Peak Torque where as Ron reviewt measured 9nm peak torque in his review. I have had csl dd with 5nm and later upgraded to the boostkit and got a simagic alpha mini. Now i use the c5 and i can assure you, the c5 is stronger than csl dd with boostkit. Even comparing it to the 5nm of the standard csl dd doesn't do the c5 any justice. Regards the ffb quality, cammus has done some updates to their software with filters and i gotta say i love the ffb of the c5. The only issue i have ever had with it in iracing is that the dashboard sometimes hangs for a couple of seconds which is annoying. But if you consider that i bought this new through their website for 270€ is just mind-blowing. Btw besides Ron, who has said the c5 is stronger than csl dd with boostkit, davecam has said the same in his review.
Right now my choice is g923 or t300. Don’t know if I’ll do this everyday or love it how you guys do. Just want something better than a controller but I don’t want a super noisy thing I want to play while someone is watching tv. Guessing the 23 isn’t the way to go?
Hi Karl, I'm just looking to upgrade my G920 and my best option is Fanatec because of xbox compatibility but I've heard horror stories of people waiting months in other countries and poor customer service, are they any better at shipping to the UK
Just to point out pricing, availability, compatibility (console vs PC) and even specs are all accurate at the time of recording based on the websites shown, a lot will vary depending where you are in the world and what platform you are on... I can't cover every possible variation and option, thanks!
before i buy anything sim related i come straight to this channel lmao. these videos are so detailed and to the point good job.
Thank you mate, appreciated!
I bought the logitech foldable chair based on Karls recommendation. Awesome reviews! Now looking to upgrade my T150 wheel 💪
What if am interested in 3rd pedal and shifter and handbrake from day one as for sim racing as a starter for ps5, what do u recommend . Flexible but not crazy budget
@@aboodalakhras recommend getting on pc first much bigger community and compatibility
I watched this video during research for my purchase and found it very useful. A few days ago (Aug 2024) I bought a T300 RS GT. It was on offer for £280, which meant I could get a decent small-size rig for the wheel and pedals within my budget of £400. The last time I used a wheel was when I bought a PS1 bundle in 1998 that included Colin McRae Rally, a TV, and a wheel. So things have moved on a bit since then!!
For anyone who wants an honest opinion and has essentially zero experience of racing a modern sim wheel - The T300 RS will be such a game changer for you compared to a pad that you will not be disappointed. I was slower than pad for a few hours, then as I mucked about with settings, positions etc, and generally got used to it, I'm now faster and I have further to go in terms of improvement.
The conversations about an extra £20 here or a DD vs belt there are obviously valid, but imo this is the same as we have in the mountain biking world - your budget is your budget and there is ALWAYS a better feature you can get for a 5% increase in budget, that honestly won't make enough of a difference to introduce buyer's remorse. For me, the fact this wheel has been around for basically 10 years and was still in the conversation was the validation I needed to buy it, and I'm not disappointed. I hope this helps anyone mulling it over.
I’m debating between this one and the g920.
the difference really is immersion. Belt driven wheels just dont compare to a DD wheel, not even close. I've had all 3 options, and looking back I wish I would've just paid more from the start. Eventually, if you stick with it, you WILL want to upgrade, so save yourself the trouble and get it now. I'm not saying drop $1000 on just a wheel, but like he mentioned, its $20 more to upgrade to fanatec from the Thrustmaster you bought, now it'll cost you $600-ish total to upgrade, when that extra $20 would've made a WORLD of difference, saved you money down the line, AND there's a massive market of upgrade potentional with the CSL DD, considering all the wheel options, pedal upgrades in house, shifters and etc.
In reality, paying that extra $20 is much more financially smart, and much more fun for the money.
You can always count on Karl for a good honest opinion.
I bought a Logitech DFGT when it first came out in 2008 with PS3 and Gran Turismo 5. It was a lot of money to drop on a wheel back then and it absolutely blew me away. I kept that wheel and used it on the PS3, and my PC until late last year when I finally uograded to a direct drive wheel, so it lasted me 15 years of almost daily use. I gifted it to a friend to get them started in sim racing. I looked at Fanatec, Moza, all the other more expensive brands like asetek, simucube etc, but finally settled on a Cammus C5 due to its unique design, and the fact it was so easy to desk mount. I got one of the very first models in the UK (serial number is just double digit) and I have once again been blown away. Every firmware update adds something new, kmh/mph and Gear indicator additions, changing rev lights etc. The FFB improves all the time and feels every bit as good as its competitors. The wheel is rated 5NM constant torqu with 6-7NM at peak so there is enough power there for sure. I do wish they had gone for a round wheel design rather than the D shape, just for the rally driving and for those that drift. Hopefully they will find a way to easily change the wheel (Though not quick release) or bring out specific Formula type rims on the same hub design. Either way, I am once again blown away by the jump to Direct Drive as I was with the original jump to a FFB wheel. I didn't bother with the CP5 pedals are they do look a "Bit Pony" lol. I kept my T3PA pro's.
Keep up the good work Karl.
It's hilarious that g29/920 is still holding up today xD Great for beginners and sufficient for most even experienced users in my opinion. On top of that, loud gears are an advantage as they sound exactly like my power steering in my corsa c for maximum immersion.
hahahaha thats excellent!
I bought the G29 as a drifter, and man I regretted that quickly. Now I have CSL DD, and it's an entirely different universe of immersion and driving.
@@RigRacershy what whas the prices ?
@@RigRacers Yeah but it's twice the price in my country so not really comparable
Got C5 from UK reseller few months ago. Arrived in 3 days. No problems whatsoever since, upgraded the paddles right away though. Feels more rigid than any DD I've tested due to lack of QR or base. Looks a bit silly but that's a no issue in VR.
I started with the G29 and I'm still believe it's the best starter. it works right out of Box And everything just works.
A year.
Later I went to the c s l DD huge learning Curve had to learn how to tweak all kinds of things really complicated. Still trying to figure it out.
To be fair even with the Logitech you still need to setup and tweak everything... but with so little power and fidelity you don't always notice.
Many people have "upgraded" from a G29 to DD PRO and have never been able to beat their lap times set on the G29.
@@TonesAtTinwell Yeah, It's a fallacy that a DD wheel will make you faster, any more than VR will. It only helps with immersion. I just traded my 10 year old T300 for a DD wheel, and I'm actually slower so far...
@@gomezthechimp1116 That's a fallacy too. A DD will make you better if you are good enough. Average drivers will be as fast as Max Verstappen when driving a Fiat 500 but when you give Max a F1 he becomes much faster while average drivers will just kill themselves in a F1. Good professionals will improve their work using good tools, amateurs won't see any difference because they aren't good enough.
It's got to be a Cammus C5 paired with Simjack or Simpson pro pedals both will set you back £400, £150 for the pedals and £250 for the Cammus C5 wheel with mounting.
i used to race online back in the logitech dfpro days, now things have come a long way.
You do have to remember with fanatec. In the uk, you will have the vat and Import charges to deal with. Probably closer to £500 all in.
Hopefully with the takeover they will start stocking with retailers and save unexpected costs.
I had the thrustmaster tx, just bought a fanatec csl dd with the loadcell pedal. I'm very happy with my purchase!
Great video as always!
This used to be all included in the price but I've just checked and now indeed you "may" be charged upon delivery to the UK!
I never looked for Direct Drive, because in my head there was still the opinion that they were just too expensive for me. But it never occurred to me to look at the price again after a few years.
Your video was very helpful, thanks for that!
Glad I could help!
I'm just editing a video review on R5 vs C5, the logitech killers, and I saw this and thought oh god Karl has done me! But yes I am amazed at the C5 for the price, I am worried the video will look like im a cammus shill (im not) but the entry level is better than ever by far! Great info as always Karl!
I'm more or less a casual who simply wants to play GTR2, Race 07, rFactor, and some F1 games using wheels. Moreover, I live in a third world country (so to say) and over here the cost of entry level FFB wheel can be considered high. More expensive options like Fanatec already sits within luxury level of stuff, while Cammus C5 hasn't entered our market yet as far as I know.
Over here, a set of Logitech G29 is priced around 4 million rupiahs (around 250 USD), and for us over here that amount is quite a lot. Thrustmaster T300RS GT is priced around 2.5 millions rupiahs / 150 USD more than G29. That extra 2.5 mil is a lot if you ask me. Then there are Chinese brands like PXN, which I consider questionable. Among those, G29 is actually the easiest one to get, as I could buy it offline unlike the others.
At the end of the day I decided to go with G29 and live with it. It's been six month since the purchase, and I'm happy with it. It doesn't feel like driving a real car, of course, but still enjoyable enough. By the time my G29 decides to die, perhaps, I have enough sitting money to buy something much, much better, but for now I'm more than satisfied with what I have.
I bought the Thrustmaster a while back and there was still a big price difference between that and higher spec stuff. Good to seeing prices coming down.
Definitely!
You always have some of the best takes on these things. IMO, the Fanatec is the logical choice. The price is right, and the ability to upgrade to 8nm at a later date for a fraction of the money it would cost to upgrade your entire base with Moza. And while i haven't used a Moza, I know that I am more than happy with my CSL DD, especially once i upgraded to 8nm. I guess that Fanatec bankruptcy thing kind of muddies the waters a bit, but I'd still go Fanatec. BTW, I'm 2 years into having my CSL w/LC pedals, and 1 year with my CSL wheel base, and have yet to have a single issue with any of it, and I use my sim gear A LOT, and I'm not gentle with it either. I treat the stuff like I do IRL cars when pushing hard, and it takes the punishment with ease. Great product, with an ecosystem that is totally unparalleled, at a great price. Clear winner (at least IMO).
Thanks Burt!
I have all three Moza R5, CSL DD 8nm and Cammus C5, C5 is stronger, more detailed and far more immersive drive than the other two. Its a night and day difference. I also have the R12 and when i switch to the C5 for a few weeks it is a very pleasant experience. Less powerful than the R12 ofcourse but enough power to not miss the additional torque. Selling the R5 and CSL DD...CSL 8nm was by far the worse of the three. R5 comes second needs a fair bit of fine tuning in settings, but leaps ahead of CSL DD in terms of power and detail.
C5 has it flaws with the wheel being small and not replaceable, and the small shifters, but the power and the FFB detail makes up for it. I say this all when I was actually hoping for my Fanatec to be the better of the three, only reason I had the other two was because fanatec took months to deliver and in that time i found the other two for less than 350 collectively on FB marketplace! I will be selling the fanatec and moza, the good thing with Fanatec DD is the price will hold relatively stronger than the other two.
CSL DD failed on two different points of the quick release, the USB C connection and the clamp interface, had to send it back twice. Pisspoor design with unnecessary amount of failure points from poor design. One sniff of a Moza quick release and you'll never touch fanatec again. The software has come so far that its ahead of Fanatec.
Fanatec does make the best pedals out of them all thou, atleast at the entry level. I'm never selling my Elite V2 load cells, even though im on simjacks now.
Corsair has bought Fanatec! No more worrying about whether Fanatec will survive or be around in the future! More competition! This is great for consumers!
My first wheel was the mid 90s with the original Thrustmaster Formula T1, and 2-1/2 years ago I bought a used T300RS GT with T3PA-Pro pedals. I bought a new Sparco P310 wheel rim, new TH8A shifter and new TSS handbrake. At the time, what I spent on everything, I couldn't touch a beginner DD base, standard wheel rim, and 2 pedals set for that same amount.
If/when I get the time to use it more and budget, I would like to eventually upgrade to a full motion rig and a nice DD setup. But that is a dream and will not happen any time in the near future!
It's good to have a dream though mate! :)
Got the Cammus C5 and LC-100 2 pedals. Not regretting at all 😎 Thanks for the detailed video👏🏻
Great to hear!
A used Logitech wheel from fb marketplace is still the best value entry point imo, forget about brand new for your first wheel. If you enjoy the hobby then go straight to dd.
I have been using the g29 for years and looking at getting Moza set up for Trucking Sim. I will never knock the g29. Really a great starter and I will pass it to a friend to make sure they like having a setup. Then go DD unit.
Great video. So many options. Moza looks best quality. R5 on sale right now. $459!
I am very tempted to buy this. I play on PC mostly and I love playing Forza. I have heard that it is a little bit questionable running that game.
I shot for MOZA base (r12) and wheel (cs) and have found it to be spot on, can’t fault the quality whatsoever, and the quick release is perfect 👌👌 that’s something worth remembering that with the fanatec you would get the crap qr1 at that price. I did shoot for a used set of fanatec csl v3 pedals though after your review of the MOZA pedals wasn’t great, but they do seem to have an updated version out so hopefully the issues you found there have been fixed. They seem to be doing the right things and seem to be listening to the community which is very promising for the future
Im running a moza R9 with the fanatech CSL peddles and im very satisfied.
I think one of the most important aspects for entry-level products has to be upgradability. Fanatec clearly offer the best route. You can start with the 399 bundle and later add the Boost Kit to make 8NM which is the sweet spot for many. You can later add the load cell pedal, or probably you should start with this upgrade. Then you can buy other wheels like the McLaren GT3 which one of the best for the price. The other brands, you have no other choice but to buy a new base for full price. I know Fanatec have had their problems, but lately, they had big improvements. The only big problem I still find with them is the QR1. They should definitely switch all future purchases to QR2 automatically.
Compared to the cammus c5, the csl dd is not a good deal.
The c5 doesn't have any flex and is solid as it gets. To have the same experience with the csl dd, you will have to buy the boostkit (then still you don't have the power if the c5, but very close), you will have to upgrade to qr2 and you would need to buy one of their better rims.... Even with the discounted price of 199€ for the csl dd, you will pay over 300% of cost of the c5.
Fanatec however you look at it, is not worth it.
@@azamat19 Fanatec offers better pedals, wheels, console compatibility... The C5 is stuck with what it is, including a flat bottom road car wheel that works but doesn't match the most popular racing divisions. It's not bad for what it is and it's cheaper, if you don't value the other factors
Also you should check your math, the CSL basic setup is $399, with pedals and everything you need
@@zmmmzmmmz what??? First of all it doesn't matter which company you buy pedals from, you can just mix them. Lc100 pedals qre far superior to v3 pedals but i would just buy vrs or simagic p1000 pedals. 399€ set for fanatec is compete garbage. Need to upgrade to qr2 wnd buy a higher end rim and the boost kit zu be comparable to c5.
Console compatibility... Well if we are talking about simracing, theres no alternative to pc.
You’ve come a long way since the early days. Reigning in all the old f-bombs has really elevated the quality of your reviews. Really enjoying your content sir. Keep it up.
Yes manufacturers and viewers with children are not a fan of swearing so it makes sense to be more considered.
It's unfortunate you have to self self censor as swearing is a genuine part of being an authentic brit lol
When in Rome and all that I guess 😂@@KarlGosling
For Fanatec you also need to account shipping which, at least in europe, is another 60-70 euros. For Cammus is even worse, shipping costs were as much as the bundle itself almost. These things need to be taken into account and talked about also.
That is common sense mate and as per my pinned comment will vary wildly from country to country so is not something I can cover obviously.
After playing GT7 on my PS5 for the last few weeks , i made up my mind to buy a wheel and i can say it is a eye opener and minefield trying to buy one if you are a beginner .After watching a few you tubers for help and advice came across your channel .And all l can say is thank for your help,advice and reviews. Cheers
No worries mate!
i managed to snipe a Fanatec CSL elite (with BMW wheel and new CSL pedals) for 200€ - safe to say it feels like a DD (I’ve used some) great value for money and has served me well! Also look at the used market!
Very nice!
With T300 you are paying for PS support. Cheapest DD wheel with PS support is 700€. But yeah for pc users going for entry level DD is a nobrainer nowadays. Moza R5 would be my choice as long as Fanatec is dealing with customer support issues. I splurged and went for Logitech Pro. Absolutely loving the thing.
I thought the same with the Moza R5 but I got the R9 instead with the better wheel. Omg I'm glad I did. That thing is stronger than I thought, like or can be a workout.
For those with a PS4 or those who like to live dangerously on PS5, there's also the DriveHub. I've used it with an Xbox thrust master TX and a CSL DD (regular) on my PS5 with GT7
@@zmmmzmmmz
yeah i thought about that but i like my setup to be completely plug and play and i heard the ffb is not as good as native support. So i went for the Logitech DD pro. Very happy with it. If i was pc only i would have gone with Moza or Fanatec for sure.
@@MrCamel254 hard to say without having both, there are different compatibility modes, I think with full support the DriveHub basically tells the console you are using the equivalent gear - so PS5 sees my tx as a t300 and CSL DD as the GT version - if hardware is the same, it should be close
@@VirtualRyders I chuckled when I read your comment. First time I used the G Pro wheel I was wrestling with it thinking man, this ffb is bloody hard work! What the hell is this set on, max? Nope, it was at 5.5nm. I think that will do me for now.
Thank you, I'm looking around trying to find my first wheel and I want to get something good, and, I think fanatec is gonna be my choice, so thanks for helping me look at options.
No problem! Fanatec are again a solid option now Corsair have secured the business, link in the description if you're after a small discount (whilst it's still active).
Good point Karl, but in my opinion the smoothness of a downgraded DD is a small difference that doesn't justify a doubled price and doesn't make you faster. If i could invest 200 extra euro I would choose a load cell set of pedals that makes you more consistent while driving . In my opinion....😊
You can be fast on almost any wheel base (Logitech included), but this video is about what you might buy as your first setup for the same money not double or talking about upgrades like a LC brake.
i got my moza R5 for 440 pounds on sale, definitely worth the wait
Good price!
A clutch is useful for race starts especially with iRacing adding a setting especially for starts. I guess it comes down to cheap plastic junk going up in flames . For me long term reliability is the benchmark.
There's no wrong information, I quoted the relevant websites word for word (not specifying peak or holding) as it's a price comparison video not a wheel vs wheel video... it's up to you as the viewer to research and decide which is best for you also as I said in the video.
the csl dd with booster pack i just bought for £394 including shipping obv depends when it turns up also when u make an account also gives bigger discount
I do at least think stock is getting shipped these days, even if it's not quite as quick as they say.
I've a g920 wheel with h shifter n clutch pedals for my son hes 9 but yeah ordering me moza i think once I sort Christmas out😅
Go for it!
Dont forget that the Cammus has the DD motor in the wheel itself which is a novel way of doing it
It's an awkward way of doing it, how do you change wheels?! lol
@@KarlGosling Simple answer is you don't, it's all combined
@@KarlGosling The point is that in a Moza R3 you can change the wheel but shouldn't. It works fine with its 280mm wheel (I think its the ES model) but all their other wheels are bigger and heavier. All reviews I've seen say exactly the same: R3 works nice until you use a different wheel. It has too little force for a 300mm, much less for a 330mm wheel. All other Moza wheels are bigger and the only other 280mm wheel is their FSR which is much heavier than the ES and costs 699€. One must be really crazy or lacking too much brain to buy a R3 and pair it with a 699€ wheel. The same goes for the CSL DD which is 5.5nm PEAK torque. Being able to change the wheel doesn't mean you should, like being able to chop your own leg with a spoon doesn't mean you should do it.
Heya. Great vid!
I’m about to build my first sim racing setup, is the following fine:
- fanatec Csl dd ready2race bundle, 5nm
- SSH thorn shifter
- the GT omega apex wheel stand to mount everything
In the future, I may upgrade to 8nm, and might add a load cell pedal
Note: I only play on PC, and I mainly play euro truck 2
Thanks for the amazing vid again!
I've not used a SSH shifter so can't comment on that but the Fanatec bundle is fine and I'd wait till the other side of the weekend as GT Omega may have a better wheel stand for the same money coming...😉
@@KarlGosling ooo okay! I’m going to buy things this August, so hopefully it’ll be released by then 😀
You also have to factor in postage for the Chinese wheels. Shipping for my Moza wheel was £95. Shipping for a T300 is £0 from Amazon Prime.
hey Karl! New to SIM racing (GT7 on PS5( subscriber from the US and though i have dabbled over years, I only REALLY got into it a couple of weeks ago. Bought a used Logitech G29 for $100 US and it works... ok... but doesn't really feel like a real wheel.
So when I saw that Fanatec had a $400 US bundle, I was quite excited. But then I went to their website and saw that the only PS option is $700 US, though admittedly a better wheel. I also saw a clutch pedal is extra. Not necessarily a deal breaker as I am using the paddles to shift as I am still learning, but I do come from a manual shifting and doouble-clutching background dating back to my Dad's 52 Willy's jeep, my cars from the past including 67 Austin Healy Sprite, 67 Camaro, and 70 Formula 400 Firebird.
Unfortunately, it appears that the Moza and Camus do not appear to have PS5 support so my only upgrade path is to a Thrustmaster 300 or the Fanatec GT bundle. If its $400 for the Thrustmaster and $700 base for the Fanatec, it seems the Fanatec is my best route (as long as the wife doesn't know how much it costs.).
Does that make sense? Any further advice would be greatly appreciated.
It does make sense mate, console support is limited across the different brands so you have to so what you have to do!
your best option is buy a Lenovo Legion 7 4080 RTX laptop, you can save $300 on the wheel that will help pay for new PC and have a much better system
@@nunyabizz50 Yes spend 2800$ on a laptop save 300, and then its weaker then a 1600$ PC, wonderful idea. Also he wants to play grand turismo a PlayStation exclusive. Very Very good idea.
@@Cyclops_Cool i bought mine for $1899.
And there are better driving games on PC than PS.
laptops are a good portable option today.
Mine runs everything I throw at it on max settings.
And yeah, save the $300 is like getting the new laptop for $1600 that runs everything and you can take it anywhere.
Much better option
Did you consider the G923 and the do some MVH upgrades?
As a ps5 owner my only real choice if I want direct drive is fanatec. And because I'm on a ps5 fanatec bump up the price .
logitech dd pro is there too
I have the DD Pro AND Logitech G Pro. Neither are priced as beginner wheels IMO, but the Logi is a far better package.
Logistics is £1000 without pedals, not what I'd call cheap..
@@daniellund6159
Yeah its more expensive but you have to calculate some further costs for the Fanatec offer. First of all to get a loadcell you have to put down an additional 129€, then for the boost kit to 8 NM you have to put down another 150€ (you can buy the chinese one but you void your warranty if something happens with it), then you get a really shitty quick release with the bundle so to get the most out of your fanatec wheel you need to get the QR2 bundle. Another 150€. If you count in all those additional hidden costs the price difference to a logitech pro set is shrinking. I paid 190€ more than the bundle i mentioned here for the Logitech one and for that i get 3 additional NM torque, trueforce and better warranty. Fanatec surely is more humane if you want to save up to slowly upgrade your gear, but if you have the money, Logitech is a compelling competitor imho.
@@supercededman What do you like better about the Logi setup over the Fanatec?
First time for me on this channel. Great video for me looking for my first equipment 👌🏻
Welcome aboard!
This puts thrustmaster in a bit of a difficult situation really. It kind of makes them irrelevant at their main price point which around 380 to 450 for most popular bundles. Logitech will still have the entry level market but everyone else should just go DD given the amazing deals on offer
Check second hand marketplaces for a G29/920. You can get good examples for 120-140. I lucked out last year with a G29 for £100 with hardly any use and 4 months warranty remaining. Yes, I'd love a DD model, but it's still out of my price range.
Yeah used is always a good option for those who don't mind going that route.
I’m actually looking at buying the HORI truck wheel as I play more ATS and ETS2 as I’m crap at racing now. Wouldn’t mind seeing an honest review if possible (but not out till end of year)
I'll look into them mate!
really boils down to what level of sim racing are you looking for?
Just a 'casual' type of experience or are you really wanting to get into this and experience as close to 'real life' as possible...or at least what you can afford and what money can buy!
Once you figure that out then you have to look at what you're willing to spend and that should lead you down the right path! :-)
As for how to say "Fanatec"...go w/the how Thomas said it..."Fah-nat-ick"...he's the one who started the company! :-)
Yeah budget is definitely the deciding factor for most.
Thats what I've always done but the the CMO said the other?! Fuxk knows?! lol
I'm using the Fanatec DD (5nm) with the f1 wheel, now looking for another set for my kiddo... and was also looking at the rigs, too bad GT Omega decided not to continue business in Canada, my money is going somewhere else.
I have a G29 and I've just (today) purchased a Simagic mini with the P1000 pedals and a GT neo wheel. I was shaking like a shitting dog spending time that much on a hobby but hey ho. Oh I should mention I only have a PS5. No pc yet 😂😂
The thing about those low end DD setups is that they’re only PC compatible. If I wanted a PS5 compatible setup the price would skyrocket quite fast. Also I think only Fanatec has console compatible DD setups at the “lower” end. The only other option is the Logitech DD setup which is a $1000+ high end setup (with pedals)
Yes mate you're correct.
For what its worth, a G29 is a good wheel and compatible with a PS5. He says that the G29 is noisy and you can feel the gears which is simply not true! In all my 18 years racing on line I have had two of them and they are all you need in my opinion.
Interesting video. In addition to the budget/technology analysis I would add some considerations about the cockpit where these wheels should be installed. If people install a wheel on a desk or on a stand, I would not buy a heavy direct drive (wobbling around), better a lighter logitech that has also very good pedals. In short, the purchasing decision depends also where the wheel should be installed.
Not really mate, you can always down the FFB down to accommodate a wobbly desk but still retain the smoothness and detail a DD gives over the gear or belt driven options.
MOZA is the only way forward, nice feel great build quality all round, m8 got a Cammus & it looks ugly & it Feels awful too & he said he wishes now saved alittle extra for a MOZA SETUP 😀
@@DjShamusUK Moza R3 is only 3.9Nm and the R5 is £440, The Cammus is £211 as the site shows $279 for wheel and clamp, the £300 + on video was included the Campus pedals, So it's horses for courses the moza R3 is weak and the R5 is expensive at £440, especially when you can get the Cammus and simjacks both for under £400 total.
I love that moza is bringing affordable DD to Xbox users. Hopefully one day PlayStation will get affordable DD but for now Thrustmaster and Logitech are the cheap options and Fanatec has the market on PlayStation DD
I use paddles for gear shifting but I still use the clutch for standing starts.
Yeah the 0.1% use case I mentioned mate.
Best is used entry level gear. Someone who tested the hobby and discovered it wasn’t for them or simply they want to upgrade to better gear.
Sure is if you don't mind used.
Helpful video. Thanks.
You can't actually order Moza R3 bundle. As I understand it, they sent pre-release units out, but R3 doesn't have a release date. Anyhow, it's nice to see we have come so far. When Fanatec released DD 5/8nm, I was wondering if it's actually any cheaper to produce gear and belt driven wheels, or repackaged servo motors which are probably massively produced for other purposes too.
The website shown says "In stock" mate, but who knows?!
@@KarlGosling I'm from the EU, and I only see "Notify Me." When Will from Boosted Media made his big video, comparing everything, I think he said the same.
Also, I haven't met* anyone anyone who have R3.
*(discord, forums, reddit)
Let's see, maybe someone will comment, and clarified the situation.
@@alpha007org the R5 bundle is only £50 more so thats another option if the R3 doesn't actually exist.
that setup is the most majestic thing I have even seen
Thanks mate!
New Thrustmaster wheel may well change options
Thanks for the video. What would be the cheapest direct drive setup that includes clutch pedal and shifter? (PS5)
Except if you want to use on Playstation. Got a T300RS GT a few months ago, I do like it but I would love a DD. May look into a Fanatec or Simagic with the Sigma Cortex converter in the future.
Yeah consoles are more limited for choice.
argos and amazon do the t300 for 250/260 all the time on offer. but anybody starting out should get a 2nd hand t300 from marketplace. £150 gets you a nice 1 and shifters can be £25. wont lose value when you sell them to upgrade or if its not for you.
fana stuff has 20% tax at customs too.
Used is a great option for those happy to do that.
Fanatec prices include VAT but not shipping mate.
@@KarlGosling import duty i meant.
This channel is the shit!!! So informative for sim racers. I've brought the Gt omega Art from watching your videos. Got my fanatec gear gt DD pro and mclaren wheel on the way! Cannot wait to get it all set up!
Cheers dude!
DD Pro 8nm was a good one, enjoyed it for some years on my Ps5. Good choice. You are going to enjoy it
I got the gt omega titan just because of him and it's excellent :)) great channel
@@FlorauhGot my GT Omega Prime and triple screen stand based on his recommendation. The Prime is absolutwly rock solid and the stand arrives in the next couple of days!
@@giogamer4825 nice mate! Thankyou!
@@Florauh a bit out of my budget that one mate :( but fair play to you!
There's 1 thing about Fanatec U never mentioned the
Import duty.. that was another £50-80 on top if shipped to UK unless its changed in the last 6 month
I didn't mention it because that and VAT is included in the price you see on the site if you select UK, unless that has changed?! Plus tax, shipping etc will all vary for all products from all manufacturers depending where you are in the world, I can't cover every possible option.
you need to check out simagic stuff
cammus would ba a great value if they weren't charging like $70 or even more (depending on region) for the shipping...
are there any budget friendly all in one direct drive wheels with 3 pedals and shifter included?
Hey, I just wanna ask for your opinion, what kind of set up and which wheel should I get specifically for drifting- should I get full setup(wheel, shifter, 3 pedals, handbrake)?
For drifting yes definitely! Auto is no good mate and yes you need a handbrake.
My G920 cost £171.55 from Amazon back in 2020. Looks like I got a bargain...................🥳
PS5 user, are any of these plug and play or do i need a computer to get it working? I'm thinking Logitech or fanatec. Damn those shipping nightmare stories though.
Finally stepped up to a CSL DD and formula 2.5x on playseat challenge x Logitech, from a TX on wheel stand and it's a big upgrade.
Do you have a recommendation for a round wheel to add for WRC and road cars?
Whatever takes your fancy mate, I run a Sparco R215 but it's up to you.
What about the logitech pro wheel? Its direct drive and has 11 nm of torque. Was able to find one open box excellent for $920 just wasnt sure if its worthy of purchasing. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Thats double the price of most beginner wheels so I didn't mention it.
But I'd choose another brand anyway, they never released any other wheels and the QR isn't great either.
A Fanatec CSL DD is much better value with loads of options for pedals, wheels, etc.
@@KarlGosling thanks for your opinion ill keep that in mind going forward!
The wheel won't help your lap times. Load cell and depth perception through VR has helped me more than anything. VR is a game changer. Dont forget, if you're on console only the majority of these direct drive setups are not available. You have to buy a 3k pc setup to use them. Monitor, keyboard, speakers.
Until you start adding postage etc.. Only available direct from Fanatec in Germany . I've just paid £145 postage for MOZA (R12 KS wheel and sr-p pedals) No U.K sellers have them ATM.
£145 postage?! Wow!
imho, if that beginner has been playing racing games on a joystick for years and they absolutely know they will use the wheelbase and pedals almost daily, I'd strongly recommend going straight into a load cell brake pedal because it will take up to 2 years to unlearn the muscle memory of a displacement brake pedal. (A year later, I still find myself using my shin muscles to lift off the brake pedal when I shouldn't use any shin muscles ever.) So the price to start off initially with a load cell pedal should be considered.
In the end, a load cell pedal will make you brake better and thus go faster, and a better wheelbase will give you much more immersion and tactile satisfaction but won't necessarily make you faster. So are you about winning, or are you about satisfying? Winning is brake pedal. Satisfying tactile experience is wheelbase. If you can only have one, choose wisely.
Without a good wheel base you will not feel traction loss or understeer, more important than a LC brake IMO... But I agree a good brake is important too.
the only reason to look at R3 is if you only play on Xbox , i got the R5 bundle for $720 CAD after taxes and was such a HUGE jump from my TMX wheel , works great on iracing and ATS . and its pronounced failatec 😁 sorry had to
5nm csl dd... 8nm psu from ali express... thats the best buy/bang for buck.
Just watching this video off the back of your MaxxTech Pro FFB Racing Wheel Kit video.
Where would you place the MaxxTech in comparison for beginners/kids looking for their first wheel?
Below anything mentioned in this video mate, it's more of a toy than a serious sim wheel.
as a first setup, the 300rs with an optional 8A shifter seems like a really good deal to me ... especially if you have kids that need to understand to use them a little bit more ... gently ... fanatec has filed for bankruptcy i wouldn't trust them with anything
Fanatec is now (as of a few days ago) owned by Corsair so it's business as usual!
Thanks Karl! I'm actually now looking at the Moza R5 bundle, would you recommend that? Worried about the fanatec bankruptcy, so probably steer clear of their stuff at the moment.
The Moza stuff seems to be solid these days so should be good mate yes!
Looking to get a wheel for my xbox. As for first time, I was thinking to get the thrustmaster t300rs ( tx version for xbox ) as can be found cheap on ebay or marketplace for my first wheel. I want to test the waters as it does have 5mm already if I’m right? Pedals might not be the greatest from what I’ve researched but is this a good plan before I invest in a good DD wheel with 8mm and above?
Yeah I ran the TX for a while and it's a nice enough wheel to dip your toe in the water with mate.
@@KarlGosling great. I literally was looking on ebay now on TS-XW series as after reading some forums people recommend it more? And as I binged watched your videos, last night I make up my mind into buying a GT OMEGA Apex stand as it ticks all the boxes for now. Thanks mate, really appreciate your work.
Im trying to find something whre I can practise biting point
Another great video!
Thanks mate!
Most fanatec reviews are bad so im scared to buy from them now I know direct dive is the way to go but I was thinking tgt 2 with the loadcell peddels most fanatec I see is PC so I’m kinda at a lose moza 9 is strictly pc so idk what to buy I had a t300RS With the loadcell but the overheating issues killed my lap time
I'm still using a Thrustmaster T150, so I'm seriously thinking of grabbing the Cammus setup. I'm a pretty casual racer so I don't need a ridiculous amount of force, I just want a smoother, quieter experience. My question is the pedals. I watched your review on the Cammus and I think at that price point I could afford to spring for some better pedals. What would you recommend as a good budget set of pedals that would be an upgrade over the included ones without breaking the bank? I don't need load cell or anything fancy, but I would like some progressive resistance for the brake at least.
You really should go load cell mate, anything else just isn't worth the "upgrade"... Fanatec V2's are decent if you don't mind their current financial situation.
@@KarlGosling Thanks for the response! I actually think I'm going to get the Fanatek DD bundle. The fact that the pedals are upgradable to load cell put that over the top ahead of the Cammus and Moza offerings. That will allow me to get it now within my budget and upgrade the brake a bit later. Even without the load cell it should be a massive upgrade over what I'm using now (T150 pedals).
Hey what should I do I have a ps5 and want to get a race setup for Christmas but also I can drive later this year and want something that can kinda replicate a Honda
good video.thank you for your help.
Glad it helped
Hello!
I was thinking about buying the T300 RS GT Edition or the G923, but I watched this video and you really helped me consider buying a steering wheel and I have a question, is it worth buying the Moza R5 bundle for Forzu Horizon 5?
These days Moza seem on their game, it's a decent bundle mate so yes go for it! Discount in the description if needed too.
@@KarlGosling Thank you for your reply.
They never released the R3 so good luck getting one.
It's showing in stock as you can see mate so you'd hope they actually have one or two?! But who knows? Lol
Must be a mistake. It has not been released. Odd situation @@KarlGosling
@@KarlGosling yeah they sent press samples out years ago to "influencers" but it never went in to mass production was what I heard
NEWS FLASH - Spookily they have finally released it this week looking at other RUclipsrs so in turned out to be good advice lol
Great video anyone else notice liking doesnt register on RUclips sometimes, the thumb up no longer hoes blue?
Hi Karl!! Hoping you see this and get chance to reply, currys currently have a deal on the t300rs gt for £280. This would be the best option to go for RIGHT NOW right? I kind of want to be quick as i cant see them keeping that offer on to long. 😂
It's a decent belt driven base and if you can't go DD then yes mate!
I own an T300 RS, and actually use the third pedal a lot when driving rally cars.
As a nifty, foot actionned handbrake.
I have to install and remove the sim gear from the desk everytime I play, so the more "combined" my stuff is, the better :D
Ah yeah in the small % of users who might want the pedal for something other than a clutch!
@@KarlGosling yeah totally agreed, a weird, very small bunch of "pedal-it yourself" guys indeed ;o)
Thank you for the video btw, I lost my manners in the process of protesting against the uselessness of the third pedal without a shifter !
I always enjoy watching your content :)
Hey Karl, I'm looking to get into sim racing and thinking about getting that Fanatec set up. Does it fit on the Playseat Evolution ActFit???? As that's what I'm looking to get too.
That is a horrible cockpit IME, I'd definitely look elsewhere! GT Omega would be my first choice www.gtomega.com/discount/GTO5?rfsn=4405211.88b36&Karl
@KarlGosling awsome ok mate thankyou.
I actually bought the next level gt racer in the end. Not great but not completely shite. Just don't like the limited adjustments. Alright to get me going tho. Your reviews really do help.
Karl which is the best DD wheel for the PS5 console? I got G923 and it is ok.. looking to upgrade the experience
Whichever is compatible and reviews the best I guess mate, I don't have a PS5 so have no direct experience sorry!
Some wrong information here:
C5 5nm is the holding torque not the peak torque. Cammus Claims 8nm Peak Torque where as Ron reviewt measured 9nm peak torque in his review.
I have had csl dd with 5nm and later upgraded to the boostkit and got a simagic alpha mini.
Now i use the c5 and i can assure you, the c5 is stronger than csl dd with boostkit. Even comparing it to the 5nm of the standard csl dd doesn't do the c5 any justice.
Regards the ffb quality, cammus has done some updates to their software with filters and i gotta say i love the ffb of the c5. The only issue i have ever had with it in iracing is that the dashboard sometimes hangs for a couple of seconds which is annoying. But if you consider that i bought this new through their website for 270€ is just mind-blowing.
Btw besides Ron, who has said the c5 is stronger than csl dd with boostkit, davecam has said the same in his review.
Ill get r9 v2 with KS wheel (its the gt3 wheel i think) and the OG extension shaft by moza bc its twice the price pf the new model
Don't get the KS, get the GT Neo... Basically the same price and you're gonna get a better wheel all a round.
@@nativerezmedia Thank you very much. But isnt the bundle with KS wheel and Moza R9 cheaper because its sold together?
@@tobiasfurst-n4d sometimes, but what's the savings?
@@tobiasfurst-n4d I don't believe there is an R9-KS bundle.
@@nativerezmedia Alright good sir thanks for your advice.
Right now my choice is g923 or t300. Don’t know if I’ll do this everyday or love it how you guys do. Just want something better than a controller but I don’t want a super noisy thing I want to play while someone is watching tv. Guessing the 23 isn’t the way to go?
Yeah the Logitech will be too noisy for that mate.
And what about some adapter to use Moza or a Fanatec CSL DD on ps5? Any advice/review you can recommend?
Drivehub, I’ve used it for my CSL DD on PS5 and it works great, it’s about £100
As another poster stated, the DriveHum is great.
Hi Karl, I'm just looking to upgrade my G920 and my best option is Fanatec because of xbox compatibility but I've heard horror stories of people waiting months in other countries and poor customer service, are they any better at shipping to the UK
It's still a gamble on delivery times from what people are saying in the comments mate.
Youve missed the pxn v12 lite. Its better than other ps wheels from logi or thrustm.
Money is not my problem
My problem is,I only play driving sims sporadically and can't be assed with all the setup.
Xbox Elite controller will do fine
Yeah it is ball ache starting from scratch!
Expect the prices to go up on the Fannatec equipment.
Possibly, if they are not competitive they will not sell, at least the PC stuff.
R3 still isnt available though, unfortunately.
The R5 bundle is only £50 more so thats another option if the R3 doesn't actually exist.