Consumerism isn't evil
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- Опубликовано: 20 апр 2024
- It's okay to like shopping and owning stuff.
Me on the Destiny podcast: • JJ McCullough: Post-Tr...
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This is how JJ announces he’s starting a merch line.
Hehe. That would be pretty cool. :)
Lowkey would make me happy
Hopefully!! Ives been waiting for it for years!
He already does have merchandise for sale. Various T shirts.
@@justinbarter479 oh sick
Man sitting in front of hundreds of random objects thinks consumerism is pretty nice actually
You can’t call him a hypocrite
@@jameskowanko7574meh, maybe you can’t… I’d say anyone with as many vids as JJ is going to say and likely believe any number of hypocritical things… we’re all hypocrites, it’s just a matter of degrees
without consumerism he wouldn't have those nice toys he enjoys
@@swayback7375 Therefore we should encourage and embrace hypocrisy.
So he is not lying about his opinion? I don't understand this comment...
Sounds like something a consumerism would say….
Well that is the position he is defending
Ahem...Consumerist.
I think the word you’re looking for is consumerist.
@@DavidBustamanteda-bu-sa Consumerist? I hardly know er ist
A consumer
Perhaps an approach such as "thoughtful consumerism" as opposed to "mindless consumerism" would help with fostering more gratitude.
True
Mindfulness meets hedonism! Me likey!
Conscious consumerism is already a thing, isn’t it? And it seems to be growing more popular, especially with Millennials.
Mindless vs thoughtful feels like a very subjective thing
I think most people are intelligent and know what to do with their money actually.
I wouldn't dismiss greenwashing as it definitely does happen. The worst cases are the waste disposal companies
Yeah he made it sound like greenwashing was the exception rather than being the norm. Pretending to improve your company's practices is almost always more effecting than actually following through on that.
Greenswashing typically is just companies exaggerating instead of just flat out lying to the consumer base
@@lithiumeater100 I mean... we can't indefinitely recycle plastic and most use cases require a good chunk of new plastic anyway. When we recycle glass, we can re-use that glass indefinitely, when we recycle plastic, we still have to decide to either burn it or dump it (which is worse pollution wise) but there is no world where it doesn't end up in 1 of those 2 places, we can't keep reusing plastic, the quality degrades and it becomes unusable.
Furthermore the recycling process has a problem with microplastic pollution in that it's responsible for a lot.
@@TheInfectous The issue is that there is no reasonable alternative to ditching plastic in the short to medium term because the stuff is just too damn useful. As such incrementally minimising it's use while looking for ways to get rid of it (for example there have been some noteworthy advancements in the development of things, like bacteria, capable of eating plastic) is the most realistic approach to actually dealing with the crisis. Inversely, ignoring such approaches while we search for revolutionary (and often quasi-magical) solutions that radically upend the entire system is distinctively unproductive as it redirects our attention from what we can do today to address the problem towards either dreaming about the better world we may be able to build tomorrow or doomerism.
Therefore, don't ever throw away your consumer goods 🤔
Mindless consumerism is when someone else has a different hobby than me.
Have you ever considered that some hobbies are more than just buying things? That some people might "create" instead of "consume"? That reading a book might be different from buying a Funko Pop? While it is true that almost all hobbies involve buying things (tennis rackets, instruments, etc), most of them also have you do something with the thing after you buy it.
underrated comment.
There's ways to enjoy different hobbies in more or less sustainable ways than others.
For example, I love gaming. I don't however really need literally all the consoles. I only have a Switch. I could've bought all the old Nintendo consoles, but I just emulate them. I also buy digital or second hand. While I would still need to buy either a PS5 or an Xbox if I wanted to play other games, I don't see the point of buying them BOTH. If I did have older consoles that I've never used, I'd rather give it away or actively use it rather than "collect" it. I also don't see a point in collecting stuff that's created by corporations and which often aren't original nor creative, which describes most toys. I have no issue with buying second hand or hand made. And selling if I don't use or even giving away.
You see, I can still enjoy the hobby of gaming, but in a way that's much less negative for our environment, global inequality, support it tyrannical regimes, or even simply my wallet. Of course gaming is still great, it's just that I have other priorities. I don't want my kids to live in a world worse than the one I live in.
Wasting hundreds to thousands of dollars on luxury brand clothes is purely a smooth brain activity and nobody can convince me otherwise; I don’t care if some call it a “hobby”
No, mindless consumerism is when _I_ get a new hobby and buy much more for it than is warranted, given how new I am to it. Some of my hobbies I've stuck with but several I haven't and the items purchased were for naught. I'd be super surprised if you've never over-purchased yourself, at holiday time, when food shopping, etc.
Seeing JJ draw wojaks is like seeing Eve eat the forbidden fruit. Such knowledge casted JJ from some metaphorical paradise.
I would consider myself moderate when it comes to consumerism. Don't never buy anything, just be mindful about things as you're buying. And there's paths to happiness beyond just buying things.
Same here. Consumerism, like most things, can become extreme and that extreme form is very bad. But, in the usual moderate form it is either neutral or good.
I’m going to play a bit of devils advocate on the plastic thing. Just because something is “recyclable” doesn’t mean that it’s actually “recycled” and you made a video yourself explaining this very point a couple years ago that most plastic isn’t recycled for various reasons. Now that’s not to say that thing can’t or haven’t changed, but this is largely one of the reasons why people are skeptical of corporate “commitments to sustainability”
Yeah but it’s literally not up to the company if people recycle their product or not. They do their part by making it recyclable.
@@mutated__donkey5840yeah, one thing I’ve come to reflect on since making that video is that we just don’t provide enough good recycling infrastructure to actually treat recycling seriously. For years we’ve just been carelessly shipping junk to China and expecting them to do it all for us. I think if we had more robust recycling infrastructure on this continent we could make much more meaningful progress.
I also do regret the overall doomer take of that video, in retrospect. Recycled plastic is a lot more widely used than I gave it credit for. Sometimes doomers use weasely numbers to make the situation seem worse than it is, such a saying things like “only 1% of plastic has ever been recycled” or whatever, putting all plastic that’s ever existed in all of human history into a single category, when what’s more useful is how much plastic has been recycled LATELY. Most consumer goods you’ve purchased in the last decade or so probably used a significant portion of recycled plastic.
@@mutated__donkey5840Plastic is a very recent invention. While it can be practical, it isn't necessary in most cases. It is the corporations fault of still using single use plastics, most of which aren't even recyclable, and even those who are probably won't be. In Europe, we passed some regulations and for example we don't have plastic bags for fruits and vegetables anymore. Meanwhile, in Japan and Korea they use plastic bags for INDIVIDUAL fruits and vegetables. And what? We can't survive? Although not to idealise Europe, since it's still far from enough to combat plastic pollution.
@@gamermapper To be fair, for all of Japan's love of individually wrapping everything, from what I've heard they do at leadt have the robust recycling in place that is needed to deal with that manner of packaging things. I am not familiar with Korea so cannot comment on that.
@@gamermapperI definitely agree that paper is where it’s at. I originally had a whole part of this video talking about how great paper packaging is but I didn’t want the video to just be about environmental stuff since I’m not an expert in that and I also think it’s probably the strongest case against consumerism.
I remember when a company (Home Hardware) built a playground for a school as a donation. There was a small uproar from people who were so cynical that said this is how they brainwash our children, and some refused to let their kids play on it. Well, Home Hardware was getting advertising out of it, but... so what? I shop at Home Hardware. They're a useful company for me. And they did something nice.
I mean you have to take your wins where you get them, so I would gladly be open to something like a free playground. But the problem is that it’s corporations that are making these donations, and not some apparatus of the will of the people.
@@antlerbraum2881 It is good if some apparatus of the will of the people does that, but it isn't bad that a company does that.
Also it’s like when billionaires donate to charities that help the poor, it’s good that the money they donate will help the working class or the homeless but at the end of the day the fact that we have to rely on the goodwill of rich people (who’s real first priority is to extract profits) to help people is indicative of a broader problem. We don’t have to live in a world like that.
@@antlerbraum2881 Don't conflate "rich people" and "companies." They're not the same thing.
@@AnUndivine Yeah I agree, corporate personhood is a horrible concept in our legal system but my point is that the corporations are run by rich people - those rich people have responsibility toward their shareholders to maximize profits - and therefore corporations act on behalf of rich people.
This made me realize there's something strange about the phrase "guilty pleasure". It's like we have to preface consuming something lowbrow, mainstream, or unhealthy by pointing out that we aren't one of those "mindless consumers"
It goes right back to the Victorian and early 20th century idea that you need to be austere and miserable to be good.
Usually when people say they that usually mean food or a embarrassing hobby like watching cute girl anime or eros
@@southcoastinventors6583I mean to a lot of people it could be anything that's generally considered more often than not to be low brow. Like saying Duck Dynasty is a guilty pleasure or Limp Bizkit or even something as simple as McDonald's. I think people are too obsessed with their own fears of being portrayed as what people might think of from someone who watches a TV show like that (like, "oh wow, he must be a lot more redneck than I though" when in reality, you just think it's a funny show). Sometimes we identify ourselves with certain media we love and unconsciously assume that everyone else identifies with the media that they themselves enjoy to the same extent. We all have different reasons for liking something and different degrees by which we like something. Gee, I'm not very coherent right now 😅, but I really just wanted to say that I hear people all the time say they have guilty pleasures for all sorts of mundane things in life, whether it be cheesy music or popular fast food
its just another way of laundering your emotions.
When I think of consumerism, I don't think of buying a top-of-the-line flask to keep your drink warm, I think of people buying a Stanley cup because it's a trend to be seen with one, and I think of those videos of people owning 100 Staley cups in different colours. There's just something about spending money like that that seems so shallow and materialistic. I consider consumerism to be more about the "getting" than the "having", and by extension, never being satisfied.
It's fair to judge people by where they spend their money, because it shows what's important to them.
Consumerism also comes with this selfish undertone - where it's about spending your money to benefit yourself, which is why I think some religions tend to be against it.
I love your videos, including this one, even though it didn't convince me . I'm still eager to hear more of your thoughts on this topic. I'm impressed that you form your arguments regardless of the current popular opinions. You have taught me a lot.
I agree. I dont view consumerism as buying things you enjoy, i view it as buying things you dont need. Its great if people buy clothes, artwork or tech - if they seriously enjoy and use them.
my thoughts exactly. having a hobby is completely separate than mindlessly collecting arguably useless products.
@@catman6089just because it’s useless too you doesn’t mean it’s useless to other people.
Who cares what other people do?
With all due respect, who elected you to decide who "needs" anything? How is any of this harmful?
This reminds me of that comic panel from Calvin where his mom gives the typical “It could be a lot worse.” And he rebuttals with “It could be a lot better too!”
Is J.J Calvin's mom in this analogy? Cause the response to that is ungratefulness robs you of today's joy and strays your aim on what truly needs to change.
It really doesn't, unless you're implying that consumerism is some sort of compromise.
@@Marbo12fIt’s all well and good to be grateful when JJ, a wealthy white person living in a first world country, isn’t the one facing daily violence and exploitation at the hands of the system he is so grateful for. This whole video reeks of eurocentrism.
@@aadhavanbalachandran7164
>facing daily violence and exploitation at the hands of the system
this is true. i am a small african boy and Capitalism comes to my home every night and punches me. please stop buying Nintendo Switches.
@@aadhavanbalachandran7164 Not really. This comment dose because it centers Eroupe as the only place that actually makes choices. Ignoring that many of the places that you pretend to care about are actually quite greatful to have steady work, and access to more modern luxuries.
Africa and Eastern Asia hold positive opinions of America and it's culture. With South America being relatively neutral. The only people who seem to have a problem with American Culture are Eroupe and the Middle East. Now that's not nessaraly a one to one opinion on capitalism and thus consumerism. But you'd think if these poor people hated it so much they'd hate the people doing it.
while i disagree with some of what you said, i do agree with another good portion of the points you’ve made. as an animist and also someone who’s some flavor of anti-consumerist, it has always saddened me when popular anti-consumerists talk about how the items produced through consumerism are worthless. this is simply untrue. all items can have meaning and value to someone and gratitude (like you mentioned) should be shown into the time effort and materials used to make it. of course we like things, as humans we make things. it’s more about the way they are made and disposed of that i find can be concerning, depending on how it’s done, rather than the fact that these things exist and that we like them.
I agree. I think environmental concerns are the most serious critique.
@@JJMcCulloughI think that a very serious critque unaddressed in this video are the rather infamous episodes of sweatshops being the cheapest way to produce many products, as such alot of what we buy is made by someone who is working a life of near slavery level misery in china.
@@JJMcCullough What about the labor critique? Plenty of consumer products are made in conditions no American worker would dream of working in.
@@DrDinoNuggies no economist really takes that criticism very seriously. Countries have to move through phases of development and it’s unrealistic to expect wages in the developing world to match ours right away. There would be no incentive on our part to have factories in that part of the world at all if that was the case.
@@JJMcCullough I’m not talking about wages, I understand that, I’m talking about working conditions. General safety, child labor, cleanliness etc. I understand why someone in Vietnam isn’t going to get the $7.25 minimum wage, but I also find the amount of human damage done for cheap clothing that gets tossed within a year disturbing.
Thanks for the response, your videos are always making me see new perspectives of American culture and politics
"Making anything except babies" is quite the sentence I never thought I'd hear lmao
Ironically enough, there’s nothing more environmentally destructive than having children
What if there was a baby manufacturing market?
@@Sebman1113 That's surrogate motherhood.
@@Sebman1113 There of course will be one once we perfect artificial wombs.
Population decline is good actually. More people, just means more, suffering. Pensions and retirement don't matter.
It’s funny for JJ to deliver this message while sitting against a background of trinkets
why
@@ramboturkey1926cuz without consumerism he would’t have all his gizmos and do-dads behind him
@@adualaispuro the whole video is him saying its not bad, so its not ironic
@@adualaispuro yeah, that's why he LIKES capitalism, which is based.
@@ramboturkey1926 they didn't say ironic. they said funny
I love how JJ is never afraid to take a controversial take, but it’s always clear that he’s doing it in a fascinating way and not just trying to be provocative or something. Really appreciate these videos JJ
I was open to hearing an argument I knew I would disagree with, but I feel like he based most of his opinion off of ridicule and an acceptance of the status-quo.
@@TheDrunkMunkI agree. I’m always open to hearing another perspective but personally I felt this video came off as smug and a bit out of touch
One issue with consumerism that was not really addressed in this video is that the reason we can have so many consumer goods that are at a price point that we can purchase things without a second thought is the exploration not just of the planet but also of people. The production of so many products takes place in so many locations which means the working conditions can be horrendous and the workers can be very underpaid and the consumer would have no way of knowing unless they do extensive research and even then it may be unclear. I would be more positive about consumerism if the production wasn't exploiting the people and the planet. Only people being hard on consumerism and it's impacts will push for change. If we are in the dark about the impacts then we can't push them to make positive impacts that will effect their bottom line.
I feel that the response the video would give is “It’s getting better”, as if the bar wasn’t already pretty low.
There's also another form of exploitation. Consumerism is very often taking resources from other, very poor countries, whether raw materials and land use. These countries can't even use these materials for their own needs, and it's often happening in countries with extreme poverty. Yet we use all these resources for things that are far more than just what we need, and that's extremely unfair too. This contributes to the huge global income inequality. It's as if we're rich people hoarding resources from very poor people because of our selfish needs.
@@gamermapper
That's not how trade works
Exactly. This guy comes off a lot less smug when he’s talking about chip flavours. In my opinion, it’s a bit irresponsible of him to use his platform to shed light on an important topic like this one, only to represent an entire idealogical group with half-baked made up argumentative points that barely even scratch the surface of why people are skeptical and hold a significant level of cynicism towards industrial giants. Only for him to straw man his way through rebutting these points (again, that he made up and purposely phrased in a way that lacks any nuance) in a lame attempt to make himself look smart for the camera.
@@merlintym1928why do you think America spends so much on military and have such a huge military presence in developing economies? Shockingly, the cheapest way to capitalise off another economy’s structural endowments is to convince your own nation’s people that they’re the antithesis to what your country stands for, and taking their land, people, and (on the subject of the video) resources hostage is the “moral” thing to do. All in the name of patriotism 🇺🇸
Consoom JJ video. Get excited for next JJ video.
fr i will consoom them all
Even when it's sarcastic, I still hate that
I liked listening to this video as someone who is markedly anti consumerist. It’s always good to hear a good-faith contrasting perspective.
I disagree somewhat that corporations have become particularly environmentally responsible. There are some improving trends, some positive initiatives, but I think there is a ton of corporate greenwashing too, high-profile publicized environmental initiatives that don’t do much to put a substantial dent in the actual underlying problems. For example look at all these ‘carbon neutral’ corporations which work under carbon credits, which when you look into it more, are really quite meaningless and deceptive. I don’t think they’re lying, but I do think they’re playing up their improvements while being just as bad on most other fronts. At the end of the day the single objective of a corporation is to make profit, and they will only reduce their environmental impact to the extent that it doesn’t reduce their profits.
Recycling is also often not a great solution. Not all plastic can be recycled, even if facilities are available; and it can often only be recycled a couple of times before the quality degrades more and more. There are many types of plastics, with different situations, but recycling rates are never going to be approaching a mostly-cyclical economy.
According to the ecological footprint calculator, if everybody in the world had my lifestyle, all 8 billion with my quality of life, we’d need 2.8 Earths to sustain it forever. For my parents, it would be 3.7 Earths. This is what I worry about.
I enjoy stuff as much as the next person, stuff is fun. Don’t get me wrong. I have a bookshelf full of books, some of which I haven’t read. I have a fair amount of hobby and craft supplies I don’t use as often as I’d like, and I get green eyes when I see some new crafting tool on my Instagram ads. But I know our great-great-grandkids are not going to be able to live the same way that we’re living now. We can’t keep living like we’re the only people who matter, to hell with people in poorer countries and our own future descendants. I don’t think ‘stuff makes me happy’ is a good reason to not think about how this is going to affect people seven generations forward. It’s true, environmental and ethical regulations will make my coffee and books and candles and beads and cider-brewing supplies cost more. So they should, honestly. There is no way that a milk frother can be made ethically in China with fairly paid labour and responsible environmental practices, and shipped to me front door by Temu for $3.50 Canadian. There’s no way. It would not be possible to offer these prices if it was being made in a way that was ethical and cared whatsoever about environmental concerns. But people buy it, so they will keep making it, until regulation forces them to care. Then my hobbies will get a bit more expensive, and I’ll buy stuff for them a bit less often, but they’ll reflect the actual value that went into making them.
Just ‘choosing to buy from other companies’ is never going to be a solution to that, my individual choices have little effect unless large scale group action or regulation takes place.
I’m not suggesting we all stop owning stuff. But some of the gratuitous, thoughtless consuming I see in peers and online, hopping on Temu buying hundreds of dollars of random plastic crap that never gets used, or clothing that only gets worn a couple of times, and straight to a landfill, this hurts me. What’s the point. It benefits nobody. It’s sweatshop labour and environmental destruction just to be shipped to your door and right to the landfill.
I would put this take from J.J. squarely in the fail category. Building a pros and cons list of what modern consumerism delivers would surely tip the scales into the negative territory. Standing on the past and continuing lies of corporations committed to plastic recycling is where his arguments fully failed for me. Do you think he missed all the videos of the Stanley cup craze?
We can keep doing that. There’s never going to be equality throughout the world, and we are ahead. We don’t need to worry about the effects other countries face. My grand kids will enjoy the same quality of life as me. We don’t need to bring ourselves down to the level of people in poor countries.
@@timlashso what just live like it’s hunter gatherer era? This is part of our culture. If you don’t like it you can go to some shithole socialist or poor country.
There is already far too many people on this planet, we can’t afford to care about everybody. We should care about our quality of life and how to improve it.
@@timlash >would surely
Sounds like you didn't.
My best rebuttal to the whole “you should be content and take meaning only in things that require no objects” is music. I am a musician, and it’s my one true purpose in life. Without my guitar I am literally nothing. I have 3 because I like messing around trying to make different tones to, and I wish I could say this in a way that wasn’t pretentious, further my artistic intent in any given song- my entire livelihood and reason for continuing to live is dependent on a few material possessions (my 3 guitars [Seagull S6 acoustic, Squier {not squire, Squier} Contemporary Telecaster RH , Squier Affinity Strat] a couple of cables, two amps, and some pedals) and I’m fulfilled because of what they allow me to do.
You do not need a Squier Dtrat and a Squier Telecaster to be fulfilled and be a musician. I get an acoustic and an electric but those two are basically the same guitar lol. Everyone buys stuff they don't need sometimes but that's exactly what that is.
The argument is not that you should have no things but that you should only have limited objects that truly bring value to your life and those objects should be shared with others if possible and purchased in the most environmentally and socially responsible way possible
Fast fashion in particular is popular among the kids these days and it's basically everything wrong with consumerism exemplified. Trendy marketing to kids to buy cheap clothes made with exploitative labor practices, meant to be thrown out quickly and buy something else as fashion rapidly changes. The act of buying consumer goods is not inherently evil, but we can identify certain trends that do have concrete harm to society.
A company will proudly advertise how they did XYZ to reduce pollution or waste, but will not mention how it is usually a drop in the bucket compared to the total amount in the whole supply chain. At Amazon for example when pallets of packages are transferred from a fulfillment center to a distribution center, the whole thing is wrapped in plastic wrap which is then unwrapped at the distribution center and thrown away. When I worked there I was astounded at how fast the dumpsters willed up with that plastic sometimes. But the customer would never hear about that and as such Amazon doesn't have that as a priority to change, even though it would have a huge environmental impact.
Companies will be more than happy to use thinner packaging, stop providing straws, and do other things which are actually good for their bottom line and market it as environmentalism. As soon as it isn't something the customer actually sees, there is much less interest in it
I've been living in Finland for the past 5 years, but I go back home about annually to visit family in the US. I've had a lot of observations on these small nuances in consumerism between the US and Finland (I won't speak for all of Europe cause I don't think that's fair, but it likely still applies). The products available in stores are virtually the same: a pint of Ben & Jerry's is just double the price in Helsinki and Apple electronics are still readily available. Amazon hasn't yet entered the market so there's a local competitor. The delivery system is also a bit different in Helsinki, where when you order a package, if it's too large it doesn't come by post and you have to pick it up in person. So that style of on-demand online shopping hasn't really caught on here, at least not based on my anecdotal evidence. Online orders are usually done for a necessity or if it is much cheaper on the website. Overall though, these consumption patterns of goods really aren't that different on the surface level, unless you include cars and trucks, which aren't exactly everyday purchases even in the US.
My main observation in terms of middle class consumption is for household services. In the US people seem willing to spend money on landscaping, housekeeping, pool cleaning, snowplowing, etc., things of that nature. In Finland, these services are reserved for the wealthiest, and I don't personally know anyone who operates these types of businesses. I often had landscaping jobs growing up in the US and knew tons of people in my middle class upringing who had these kinds of businesses.
This is obviously a different form of consumerism that doesn't rely so heavily on global supply chains as much, and much of it could be attributed to a difference between suburban lifestyles between the two countries. Middle class Finns also on average have much smaller expendable incomes than their American counterparts. On my last visit to the US, I saw advertizements for a new type of household service I'd never seen before --- setting up outdoor Christmas decorations and storing them once the holiday season ends.
There's a part of me that falls into these 'late-stage capitalism' cynical arguments about how wild it is that such a service exists. I understand that setting up mass-produced Christmas decorations is a pain in the ass, but it seems like a quintessential part of Americana, just like mowing the lawn and raking leaves. I think that it's removing a cultural hallmark from the collective cultural experience, will National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation resonate with future generations? The yearly pilgrimage up to the attic to throw down and untangle lights is right up there with apple pie on Thanksgiving in my opinion. On the other hand, there is obviously a market need for this, otherwise these businesses wouldn't be advertizing and it does allow someone the flexibility to make an income on their own terms by exploiting the market need.
When I came back to Finland I conducted a very informal poll amongst my friends and relatives. All of them kind of scoffed at the idea and most of them said they found it novel that the outsides of houses were so ornately decorated. Finland does Christmas trees and interior decorations at home and Finnish cities are covered in Christmas lights, but not really to the scale of Christmas lights on private homes in the US. Some in Finland had seen the American-style lights before, but others were shocked, some thought it cool, others grotesque, particularly the big blow up Santa dolls.
This tirade doesn't really have a point, just kind of a rumination on how I've viewed consumerism on both sides. I don't necessarily agree with JJ on all the points he made, but I do think there is a lack of gratitude on lots of accounts for our modern economy. The other aspect of the anti-consumerist argument, though, is that products themselves have gotten worse and worse in the past few decades as a combined result of offshoring manufacturing, cutting corners and controlled obsolescence. This makes it even tougher to know that the product you buy is quality unless you do some prior research and scrutinizing. It would be great if these corporations were held more accountable for these practices i.e., fast fashion, tools made from Chinesium, and software not letting farmers perform their own repairs on their tractors. Anyway, rant over.
The reason why JW individuals don't want birthday or Christmas gifts is not really because they are anti-materialistic or are against consumerism. It is because they don't recognize any one day as being different from any other day, and do not celebrate holidays---and this is due to their interpretation of Biblical scripture. (I am not a member of this group myself). Some Seventh Day Adventists have similar beliefs.
Yeah, their whole thing is not being attached to the material world because the rapture (or something like that) will happen at any moment and they'll go to heaven. This is why JW will only work for just enough money to live comfortably, and indeed, attend events but not partake in its material customs (giving gifts doesn't matter when you will go to heaven at any moment). It's also why making friends with a dedicated JW is basically impossible, making friends with a non-believer is pointless if they're not going to heaven with you.
@@omnisel”will only work for just enough money to live comfortably”
I’m going to need to see if this also applies to the Governing Body or the heads of affiliated corporations.
@@DiamondKingStudios WELL I didn't mean to imply that every single JW ever follows that template. But _in general_ that's like, what's expected of them, and how many of them live.
huh, I thought seventh day adventists are very much like catholics but they selebrate saturday instead of sunday. Alr.
@@DiamondKingStudios hey man. I'm not here to defend JW whatsoever, I'm just saying what many JW believe, fraudulent or not, lol.
The point about religious consumerism seemed very salient. As a Catholic I hear constant complaints from protestants and non-religious people that ornate churches, with beautiful art and statues are bad. There's a righteous belief that churches ought to be austere among many people who are basically anti-consumerist.
If you build a church and a few decades later its architectural style isn’t considered modern anymore so you tear it down and rebuild it, that’s a problem. That’s what consumerism is.
respectfully I wouldn't pick the guy with the End of Evangelion poster as being a stereotypically happy person
I can confirm that from personal experience. Watching that was like a punch in the gut at times.
However, it could also be that the guy purchased the poster without ever watching any media even related to _Neon Genesis Evangelion_ and wanted another item to add to his collection. This probably contributes more to the message JJ was trying to convey.
i mean, someone can like upseting media and still be a happy person
if anything, people who like extremely wholesome pastel stuff seem to actually be more on edge and miserable then horror fans, at least thats what i have seen
also, the ending of EoE is a very positive one
I think trade will always exist in some fashion, and in some ways consumerism is vital to our lives. But, just because this is true doesn’t mean there aren’t serious issues with the framework under which we enjoy our amenities. For example, much of our goods are produced in countries where labor is cheap (i.e, india, china) purposefully for the reason that these corporations can pay as little as possible to workers, which I think is quite crummy. And though you’re right, in that our world is increasingly pessimistic, wouldn’t you rather live in a world that is discontent with the status quo “too much” rather than one that is “too complacent” with the way the world is? How else does positive change happen? Just some food for thought, great video as always JJ.
Vital how? Economically? The environmental costs of consumerism are already heavy and are worsening with each passing year. You also can't have an economy without a livable planet.
I suppose I meant trade generally which isn’t exactly equivalent. but I would say that is vital yes.
I think one of the biggest things that motivates the intellectual class and people who would at least self-identify as intellectuals, to engage in the behavior that you criticize in this video, is the obsession and hyperfixation that these people have developed with criticality. In order to be an intellectual and be logical, these people think that everything needs to have a critical theory constructed around it. To these people, everything about our modern lives and a society that we live in needs to be criticized, debunked, deconstructed, and dismantled. A lot of this came from postmodernism.
Just keep in mind you’re oversimplifying an entire idealogical group with the personification of spiralling cynicism. No matter what your values are nuance is always important. A bit ironic that you’re accusing “them” of lacking that in the very same comment.
I think like all things, consumerism in moderation is probably the best system. Take it too far on either end and you get something quite unpleasant!
And we currently took it too far. In fact, way WAY too far. That's what the anti consumption activists are criticising!
My brother in Christ, consumerism it's it taking itself to it's extremes like capital that is used to generate more capital
If we think about the cost of consumer goods as a percentage of anyone's income, we might arrive at a more nuanced view of economic responsibility. I suspect that the average person bears the burden of keeping the economy growing by making consumerist purchases, and has less money to spare to meet that burden. That is my biggest concern with consumerism.
While that's a fair point, its sort of undercut by the fact that the inability for most people to continue bearing that burden has nothing to do with consumerism, and everything to do with a proliferation of unproductive rent-seeking behavior. It would be far easier to argue that people should buy more stuff if a small segment of the population wasn't also demanding that they hand over, in some cases, half their income to continue having a roof over their head (and said stuff), in perpetuity.
I've had many discussions about how market incentives to make things in demand using less waste has a positive impact on the environment where people brush off that general dynamic. Even if it's not running a factory on rainbows and friendship, a company refining their manufacturing process to produce 10% less waste primarily motivated by cutting costs or good PR is still reducing that waste output.
We don't need 10% less waste, though. That's better than nothing, but nothing is not the measuring stick; the warming climate is. We need heavy emissions reductions on a plausible path to no net emissions in the next few decades. Companies will not do this without regulation because the environmental costs are not priced into their bottom line.
@@notstarboard The process of improving efficiency and even economically harnessing GHGs via CCS/U technology, however, is not static or in a vacuum. Companies pursue more efficiency as well as marketing/PR-motivated green initiatives.
For some companies this impacts GHGs more than others, but it does create a general climate in the economy where anti-GHG measures are seen as more and more appealing. Especially as CCS/U grows, this can easily snowball into the vaunted "sustainable" economy people say they want while also allowing the versatile and cheap fossil fuels to still have a place.
The climate doomerism from younger people becomes more and more irrational the more you pay attention to just how much interest there is in providing green initiatives and products nowadays compared to even the early 2000s.
I say moderation in all things is key. Healthy consumerism is a great way to put it, J.J. Thanks for your thoughts!😊✌️
I think it's about balance. And also knowing that we're changing so just a little bit more self-aware.
I'm not trying to guilt ourselves. I'm biassed off when you need it. But everybody deserves a treat
Treat yourself with an experience, not a product.
Anticonsumerism is so common that even companies participate in it.
Marketing loves describing how their product is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than their competitors, as theirs is made by small independent like-minded indevisuals, and the other company is some shadowy hyper corperate dystopia that only exists to make life less efficient for their own benifit.
In some ways, the true anticorperate move is to buy things that are the best deal for you. You should probably be doing anyway
I think with the internet we're just constantly rapid fire having our trust broken with various stories of companies doing maximally evil things all the time. I don't think that would stop if we changed out for a different type of system though since there will always be those people who will do whatever it takes to get ahead. Just be conscientious about what you buy I guess, we're all just doing our best.
JJ I just want to say I love your channel and (respectfully) completely disagree with your opinion, but the drawing and sound effect combo at 10:06 actually made me laugh out loud.
Thank you.
What I like most about J.J. is that he is one of very few figures in today's culture to in any way counter the hatred of modernity so fashionable amongst both left and right. I sincerely hope he continues to make videos like this. It is so rare to find a cultural commentator who doesn't sound like a Rand villain.
I like that sometimes I go into one of his videos thinking, “This is where JJ and me disagree!” and go out of it thinking, “That actually changes how I think.” I might not always agree, but he makes me question what I thought, which I consider a good thing!
While I vehemently disagree with JJ in this video, he’s the kind of conservative that I appreciate. Not up his country’s/continent’s own arse too much, doesn’t fetishize some mythical past we need to return to, doesn’t hate gays and trans people, not a racist or national chauvinist, just a dude who is trying to not be a piece of shit and refusing to fall into either extremes. Kind of reminds me of a Burkean conservatism in a way.
Of course it feels good to have someone tell you that your lifestyle is fine and that everything isn't as bad as others claim. Unfortunately he has no idea what he's talking about. There is a reason why anti-consumerism is increasingly popular nowadays; that sort of a lifestyle shift is necessary if we want to preserve the planet for future generations, and stave off the worst of the developing environmental catastrophe.
I buy that. He's not actively toxic: just ignorant. Sad commentary that we're longing for that brand of conservatism, but here we are.
I will say, I don't think people have a problem with consumerism. I think people have more of a problem with individuals in consumerism, who use it in a greedy way, or an anti-consumer manner (monopolies, corruption, etc), which seems to happen alot in a de-regulated, or a corrupt society, which does happen in American society (Boeing, Hollywood, etc). I think people are misplacing their anger. Consumerism isn't the problem you're looking at, it's people using consumerism in a negative way that you should be placing the blame on, and reasonably so.
I feel mixed on feedback about how green/zero carbon a company is. There are companies that have lived up doing well for our planet and societies. On the other hand, far too often these claims don't hold up to audit by a legit third party source. And far too many companies phrase their success in such a way that make it seem far greater than it is (e.g., have reduced blank by up to x% rarely means that the company is any where near that cross their products/processes).
Let's set the words of these companies aside and look at the amount of plastic and oil that is being used by companies from North America. Providing links in comments usually gets my post deleted, so just go look up how much plastic and fossil fuels North American companies are using per year. It is still going up every year and going up faster than previously. If all of these companies are reducing their plastic and fossil fuel use, then how can these companies be using more of these things than ever before? The fertility rate in the US and CA is not exploding. It is just above replacement with immigration factored in. In other words, the increase represents a per capital increase.
I will end with saying that my statements having nothing to do with consumerism. Nothing is perfect, including consumerism. The overwhelming majority of companies follow the laws of the countries they operate in. People, not companies, use these laws as guidelines for what is good and bad. Most countries, especially the US, have big opportunities to improve the practicality of their regulations. At the same time, counties also have an opportunity to reconsider how they use the carrot, not just the stick. The US is still providing massive subsidizing towards fossil fuels. Government investment in renewables is on the increase, but we as a society have not been putting our money where our collective mouths are. We're starting to see many green/renewable technologies reach or pass price parity with fossil fuel technologies - even with fossil fuels receiving more subsidies. So we will naturally see most companies slowly switch to these technologies, but we could dramatically improve this with proper regulations and subsidies.
I think a lot of radical anti-consumerist thinking is in the same vein of "economic growth is damaging to the environment and thus bad, we have enough already" that is so commonly espoused by my upper middle class friends. The reality is that YOU have enough already, an enormous amount of people have very little economic mobility or freedom, barely get by, and some, sadly, live in horrific poverty.
It's really easy for you to support the status quo when that status quo allows you to live a life billions would love to have. Rather than slamming the door behind you, the solution is to provide resources so that the rise of the middle class in the developing world is supported by sustainable energy sources and practices.
Anti consumerist thinking is literally the thinking that wants to avoid that and fight against global inequality as well. And one of the reasons for why many people can't live decent lives is precisely because so many Westerners live hugely polluting, lavish and expandable lives.
The funny thing about such upper middle class people is that they refuse to stop themselves. Instead they want all of society to stop before they stop.
@@gamermapper generally conditions have been improving worldwide over time, access to drinking water, food, energy have all trended upwards. Can you source that these things would've improved faster had consumerism not been around because generally it is seen as a driver of the spread of wealth. You're kind of making an extraordinary claim here, you need to provide some serious evidence.
I don't even like consumerism but the idea that it hasn't driven conditions upwards massively worldwide is frankly silly.
to be fair, I imagine most "anti-growth" types are probably referring to growth within a wealthy country such as the US, UK, Canada etc, rather than in poorer countries where people stand to benefit a lot more from further industrialisation and development.
@@dannyceebee73Even within a comparatively wealthy country such as mine (US) there are still parts that could be developed better (and arguably parts that have been developed too much if you ask me).
J.J I have Several issues I have with this video so please hear me out even though you probably won’t listen.
1. The mere way that products are produced is only part of the issue with over consumerism but rather how much is being produced. Many products made today are intentionally made to break after a few uses so you need to buy another one.
2. Yes many products we consume are made using well paid and compensated workers. Do any amount of research on the horrible things major chocolate companies do in Africa for example to see what I’m talking about. Or any research on clothing companies in bengal and Vietnam, or fruit companies in Latin America, etc.
3. The biggest problem many 1st worlders have with consumerism is that things that people derive meaning from IE: Art, craftsmanship, parenthood are increasingly being replaced by the simple instant gratification of consuming. Actually committing yourself to something instead of just consuming more often than not does wonders for someone’s mental state. (That’s why the best thing you can do to get out of depression is to literally just get a pet.)
4. Reducing plastics being used doesn’t mean anything when plastic doesn’t degrade in waste yards or the ocean. If they actually cared they would stop using plastic all together instead of making their cups thinner or something.
Thank you for reading.
What are you going to replace plastic with?
please, I’m giving you the chance to use your brain for once, go look around at the plastic based products around your house and think either A: do I need this product? B: Can the material in this product be replaced by something else? And C: if it can be replaced then by what material? If you’re having trouble please come back to me and I’ll explain how your chosen product can be replaced by a non plastic version. You’ll find plastic won’t be exclusively replaced by one material!
As someone who lives in south america it is always fun to watch these kind of videos from you because they feel like so first world problems it ends up being hilarious from my point of view
I feel like you missed a big part in the beginning with companies & consumers doing their part in reducing plastic use. That part being legislation. In my opinion that's the only thing that drives the companies to reduce in this use of plastics etc. Especialy the part where you pointed out that amazon already stopped using single use plastic packaging in europe. I feel like you could have mentioned that this was due to legislation.
Brother talked to Destiny for 5 minutes and came back to us “corporations are cool” 😭 😭
While i agree that Consumerism at its core is not inherently evil or gluttonous, there is a particular flavor of consumerism that I, and many others, believe is pointless at best and harmful at worst.
Probably the most comment example that most people will be familiar with is the urge/pressure some people have to buy a new smartphone every year or every 2 years. Most commonly I see this idea embraced specifically by those who use iPhones and other Apple products, almost everyone I know (anectodal evidence warning ⚠️) has the newest generation iPhone, or maybe has the previous year's edition. Realistically, very few people need a phone with a 16+ megapixel camera, or half a terabyte of storage, or the processing power to run mobile games at 120 fps (to be honest, im so disinterested in the whole "new phone every year" thing that im not even familiar with how excessively powerful new phones have gotten). Most people can function perfectly fine with a $300 android phone, yet the brand name and shiney new colors have somehow sucked people into Brand Loyalty™ and normalized the practice of getting a new $1000 phone like it's a new pair of jeans.
You could even argue that tech companies, not just Apple, releasing new versions of the same product year after year is by itself a harmful consumerist practice.
Another example would be the yearly cycle of Trendy Water Bottle. Stanley cups, Yeti bottles, Hydro Flask, the trend has repeated itself at least 5-7 times over the last decade alone, leaving many people with this flavor of consumerism with either a cabinet of a dozen metal water bottles, or throwing away perfectly good products for the sake of buying what's popular.
I could go on with examples that apply to different demographics, age groups, etc, but i think the point is clear. Consumption is not even in a vacuum, but there are certainly levels of consumerism that border on the absurd. THAT is the behavior people don't like and of which we would like the see the cycle broken.
I agree with lots of your points in this video, and as always i love your illustrations and the way you present yourself, but personally i think this has been one of your weakest arguments lately. Regardless, I always appreciate the addition perspective you bring ❤
One thing I find especially frustrating about saying "thoughtless consumerism" ( or even "mindful consumerism" ), is that it places blame on the consumer, as if it's their lack of care that leads to the issues issues. How can consumers be blamed for waste, pollution or inhumane practices? For many consumers they don't have the necessary time or money to purchase the least harmful product from the best companies. For example, my local grocery store, for some bizarre reason, feels the need to wrap almost every piece of produce in single use plastic, what am I meant to do in such a situation? If I want to eat, and not spend three hours buying food that's twice the price, then all that plastic gets wasted. I feel that clearly the issue isn't "thoughtless consumption" as much as it is "thoughtless production". Take fast fashion, the reason for clothes waste isn't that people are unaware of the issue and throw stuff away with reckless abandon, it's that clothes rip after two months and even if you can buy from expensive brands there's no guarantee it wasn't made in the exact same sweatshop as the cheap clothes. So as a consumer I can make my own clothes or try to source good brands, which both take too much time. It's just frustrating to put the blame on a "consumer" when they have an impossible task. Like, wouldn't it be easier if instead of walking a tightrope to "mindfully" consume, it wasn't possible to consume in a destructive way, because we didn't produce destructively. I'm not some nerd tho so im not sure hahaha.
You're giving these big corporations too much credit.
I know this is going to get lost in the void but thanks for making this. As someone from a country and family where basic consumerism saved a lot of people, it's really annoying to see people say that consumerism is why we're poor even though without it we'd not be alive, which is incredibly patronising.
And people say I don't like this company or that company and ignore or don't realize they don't have to shop there That's what great about free market capitalism is he can choose not to shop somewhere there's so many other choices
@@adamnewman5575the issue with that is that if you genuinely have an issue with the way something is produced, just simply not buying the thing isn’t going to get rid of the problem-there will still be millions of others buying it and the issue will continue regardless. It basically just forces you into a position of “well I don’t shop with them so what they do doesn’t concern me” which just isn’t true. Which is part of the reason why people try to organize boycotts instead
@@adamnewman5575 Especially stupid when they ignore the struggling mum and pop store down the street and defend it by saying that because of capitalism they don't have a choice.
@@irubanomlas The simple fact that you chose to not go there means that there was enough to compel you to do so, you're not the only one that's going to do it, if you do it because of bad business practises others will too even if you don't organise it.
Boycotts are also a part of free market capitalism
JJ, as an anti-consumerist myself. The problem I have with consumerism is that it encourages a hedonistic attitude towards people and things. I believe in fundamentally in the deliberate care and responsibility for the things your own. And to buy a new shirt because it is cool is fine but one must do so with purpose and deliberate intention aka purchase things that are going to last your life time and that you are genuinely going to derive long term value from. In other words stop buying shit from SHEIN.
The thought that you can fix consumerism with more "green" consumerism is the state of these "environmentally coroporations" that you talk about.
No one is free until everyone is free
Oil companies pitched consumer choice as the reason behind all of their evil ways, and so when people say “there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism” … I think it comes from a bitterness of having tried and failed to consume ethically.
I think the real issue of consumerism is weaponized ignorance.
Chocolate is a good example. It’s a wonderful consumer product given as gifts for basically every major American holiday. However, it’s undeniably made with child slave labor despite the industry’s best efforts to end it. Most people are ignorant of that when they buy an Easter basket. And buying Tony’s chocolate (“voting with your dollar”) won’t be enough to fix the problem. The chocolate industry is banking on consumer ignorance so that they don’t have to invest in fixing the problem.
I absolutely love the omega mart installation in Las Vegas because it parodies the consumerism of a basic grocery store in such a fun way … while also selling merch of those parodies.
Another great place for consumerism is craft fairs and Ren Faires, where you get to meet and shake the hands of the person who created the product. I think that is just some harmless good fun on the whole. No one is weaponizing my ignorance to hurt other people in those settings for the most part.
Chocolate is a good example. It’s not using slave labor “despite the industry’s best efforts”, the industry absolutely knows this is happening and doesn’t care to stop it. Nestle fought up to the Supreme Court to make sure they were not liable for slave labor. There are chocolate companies who make it ethically but they’re not the gigantic ones- those ones know exactly what they’re doing and are fine with it.
This also applies to the meat industry, the diamond industry, and the car industry.
@@Jake-gx4ow by “best efforts” I meant the Harkin-Engel Protocol, where several of the largest chocolate companies SAID they would handle it to the best of their abilities, but that went over about as effectively as a wet fart. :/
Nah, people only say "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" because if they were honest and just said that they like owning an iphone or some other expensive product, they would lose half of their equally hypocritical audience.
Ren faires sell Chinese shit market 2000% up
There is an irony to artists being anti consumerist when their livelihoods rely on people buying their products and it relies on the artists themselves buying products.
I feel like a video like this is something people need to hear even if they don't come away agreeing with all of it. People need to know the benefits of consumerism because ultimately, I don't think any of them would like living in a world that wasn't materialistic in some way.
no matter your opinion on the system, you gotta play it to get by
Hey JJ, thanks for the great videos and inspiring Lucas Bender to make a German version of your political tribes video! I enjoyed it a lot. Best Wishes from Hessen, Germany
Doesn’t the fact that a consumerist society produces so much self-loathing count significantly against it? And why would we expect people in that society to suddenly stop becoming self-loathing simply because someone says so?
Because that’s not really the case. We chose to become self loathing. Other non consumerist cultures have done the same. As some one who works in history I can assure you of that
You're begging the question that society's self-loathing is a product of consumerism specifically when there are myriad other explanations.
Personally I think there is a harmful incentive for advertising to instill self-doubt in the have-nots, but I remain optimistic that this could be curbed with regulation as directed by an increasingly conscientious and savvy voting public. Even if not, I would need strong evidence to be convinced an alternative is preferable.
I don't suspect J.J. presumes to singlehandedly steer public sentiment on this issue, but it's all anyone can do to express their beliefs in well illustrated arguments and have faith that a society with a greater perspective can act on that where appropriate, reforming the systems we all take for granted to better reflect the public interest.
@@ryanm2279 Have we *chosen* to become self-loathing? And could we choose otherwise? You've given no reason to think so.
@@hawkrivers-garrett9315 You've given us no reason to think that there are alternate explanations. Plus, more regulations, lol.
@@thursdaythursday5884 You're the one baking the assumption into your question. The onus is on hour to demonstrate consumerism is the sole or primary culprit if you want to convince others of that belief. It's obvious on it's face that there are innumerable reasons for people to be self-loathing, with any individual person have their own. I would posit that the proliferation of social media and it's isolating impact has a far greater share in the blame. You're free to disagree, I just think the argument you posted is unsound and silly.
I generally feel, if we went through the effort to do something, there is usually some reason we did it. Happiness is a natural human goal, and the reason we make a lot of this stuff is to make things that make us happy. For different people different things make them happy but there is a lot of overlap, and I feel the fact consumerism has stuck around for at least 70 years is probably a sign that there is something there that is being done right.
The more far-right branch of anticonsumerism seems to me to be not about the problems of people owning things but about the wrong people being able to own things and the way the choose the wrong things to own. There is an authoritarian/aristocratic assumption that the rich must be made up of classically cultured consumers who value craftsmanship and land over the mass produced and popular against what they would see as a mass of low IQ proles who should ideally be too poor to own anything or be anything of influence due to the fact that the vulgarise society. In that sense it is quite different to left-wing anticonsumerism and in someways a more fundamental critique in that left wing versions just seem to often want a more equalised consumerism.
No, we don’t want equalized consumerism, we don’t want production to be centered around surplus profit (especially when the profits that are produced end up being extracted from the hands of those who actually labored to produce said profits - production-for-use & socialized production are the name of our game). It’s a false narrative that socialist/communist countries ever believed in making all wages equal or restricting everyone to an equal share of the proverbial pie. This myth comes from the observation that wages were often commonly standardized by industry & occupation, with far less variation between the top earners and bottom earners, but there were absolutely variations between them! The logic behind that false notion was that by equalizing compensation, the regime could more efficiently regulate wages instead of needing to create more bureaucracy to account for all the differences between the population. Absolutely never occurred, besides maybe, the Khmer Rouge who are exceptional in regards to many terrible things associated with socialism even though they had no real connection to Marxist tradition at all.
I think this might be a valid point too and shouldn't be restricted to the far right. A lot of our cultural traditions are fading away, and there's much more mass produced and low quality cultural content than in the past. One example, the movie industry, which was better under communism in Eastern Europe than under capitalism. However, the problem is that the far right is never concerned about for example Native American cultures which are fading away too. They're very hypocritical about what culture is worth preserving.
Sounds like something a far left person would say to describe far right people
@@gamermapperBetter for whom though? The point about capitalism is it will tend to optimise for the average consumer, especially in markets where price differentiation isn't possible. Say like a film. A lot of angsty millenial online anti-consumerism is the incapacity to reconcile oneself with this.
Wow. You getting us ready for a Temu promo?
Such a needed voice in today's rhetorical soup!
While I agree with much of your broader critique, your arguments against both the Left and Right's cultural issues with consumerism come across as pretty facile strawmen. The problems they perceive come down largely to a sense that, on the Left, consumerism can act as a pacifier against political activism (bread and circuses) and on the Right that consumerism can dull certain virtues more readily attained under undesirable conditions of deprivation and can come to replace social functions previously fulfilled by an organic communuty.
No sane society would choose outright deprivation over abundance, but to deny abundance comes with its own costs is myopic at best.
Framing anti-consumerism as "deprivation" is too strong. Even the most strict anti-consumerist would acknowledge that people's basic needs must always be provided for. Is it deprivation to spend less on stuff you don't need, so you can actually afford a place to live and a retirement while benefiting the environment for everyone? Certainly not, I'd say. It's just more efficient in all aspects. That doesn't meant it's desirable to all, but of course not given the cultural programming. That's part of what anti-consumerism is trying to deprogram.
@@notstarboard I'm not framing anti-consumerism as equivalent to deprivation. I'm framing consumerism as equivalent to abundance. There's a difference.
This is probally the first time ive disagreed with one of JJ's takes. Consumerism isnt fundamentally bad, like he said in the video its pretty much just a part of human instinct. And theres nothing wrong with enjoying things made purely for consumerism in moderation.
But I think that we can/should acknowledge that modern consumerism has become over indulgent. And that a majority of corporate climate intiatives is in fact green washing or bare minimum changes meant to avoid legislation from either being created or enforced on a larger scale.
Also theres nothing wrong with criticising a system/practice you partake in. Would you consider an alcoholic talking about the dangers of alcohol hypocritical?
When my husband and I finally managed to get a house a few years ago, I was consumed with a surprising amount, not of joy, but of bitter self-pity regarding what I'd HOPED to be able to afford that we hadn't been able to. One day, many months later, we had a pretty large entertainment center delivered, and while I was morosely assessing the new empty shelves to be filled and organized, with little more on my mind, I caught the gaze of my husband, who smiled and said, "Wow... you know, I never dreamed I'd be able to afford a house... let alone such a nice piece of furniture like this." While I was busy feeling resentment he was feeling reverence.
It's not like it fixed all my fears about money, the future, etc, but gosh was it a reminder to be grateful for what we COULD afford to have, and enjoy, and fill up with nice things (so many books and games lol) that we enjoy together! Stuff is nice!
We consume food and energy. We are consumers at a simple base level of reality and, that being the case, our economy would naturally reflect that reality. It just is.
Controversial opinion: Excessive consumption and its idealization in culture is harmful in a planet with finite resources
That's literally everyone above 60 IQ, the problem is how you fix those problems.
It’s so burning hot of an opinion it froze my hand.
So let's get off the planet then. LET'S GO NASA!
LMAOOOO😭😭😭😭😭☠️☠️
Hey JJ if you in comments on reading this what would you say your opinion on planned obsolescence?
planned obsolescence isn't real its a dumb conspiracy
Don't buy things that aren't built to be repaired?
@@merlintym1928 Consumerism sure is great if you don't participate in it and try to avoid its consequences.
Planned obsolescence is, afaik, the result of the existence of some sort of monopoly, be it a legal one (like with printers and their ink, which is printer patents) or cartels (lightbulbs). For the same reason, it should probably be considered not as a failure of consumerism but rather as failure of the market, that can be solved either with regulation and oversight (anticompetitive practices are illegal in all developed economies, even if standards differ) or simply with more competition (for example the popularisation of laser printing and led lightbulbs, respectively).
horrible
My favorite example of this is when more informed friends tell me about all of Amazons evil practices, but then ends their spiel with "but its so more cheap and convenient!"
Your persuasive essays are fantastic, J.J. Even when I don't agree with your conclusion on something, you always give me another perspective to see it by and understand it a lot better, and you always have a valid point you're trying to argue. Whether or not we each agree individually is a different story, but I think from an argument's standpoint these are very fantastic and give me, and the rest of us, a lot to think about.
"Do NOT make fun of my funko pops" the video...
What he doesn't understand about the criticism of the "soyjack" sitting in front of funkopops being happy is that that joyfulness appears childish and naive to the people criticising it. Saying that someone is smiling ear to ear and therefore that's a good thing is such a dishonest argument.
Well, i guess our goal in this society, regarding consumerism, should be to say "I want it to be better." Instead preaching abstinence.
Because abstinence really helped during the prohibition era. Or repressing the most natural of human instincts: procreation.
Because it is addictive, but if you can be aware of it, it shouldn't just be forbidden.
Comparing it to addiction makes the most sense actually. Addiction will create feelings of meaninglessness and soullessness. Perhaps it's not consumerism in of itself, but the constant participation in it.
My main fear is the power that is gained by companies which will be used only to make more money and to become more powerful which comes before the rights and feelings of the people.
They already do that, and just coping with "Gratitude" will not help us in the long term
Great video! I've thought similar things, not particularly about gratitude, but about consumerism not really being all that bad; so many anti-consumerists seem to think that anyone that disagrees with them are brainwashed or something, talking to them is exhausting
JJ is the only person for whom I would think “too moderate to offend anyone” is a positive. Great video!
Consumerism like other buzzwords have been corrupted and diluted to a point where if you're looking forward to a new piece of tech, movie etc you're somehow a victim of the machine. Which ignores humanity's desire to collect and have things that are frivolous that's been present since the dawn of civilization. I do think there's something to be said that the instant gratification that comes from internet shopping has warped our motivation for buying stuff. I love getting neat stuff but as I have gotten older I'm more mindful of thing I buy specifically my personal collection of video games. I did have to stop and ask myself why I was still collecting when I already had the things I was nostalgic for. I realized that I was enjoying buying stuff not actually enjoying the stuff I was buying. I purged some of my collection and purchased a new computer with the money I made. My collection is now more curated and meaningful. embracing maximalsim has also helped me enjoy the things I already own and cut down on buying more
Thank you JJ for making me more optimistic and hopeful for the future!
What many leftists in the West don't understand is that communist societies were just as consumerist as capitalist ones, the main difference was not in the desire for consumption but rather that the inefficient communist economies simply didn't have the capacity to satisfy the wish to consume. Here in Germany the former GDR actually spent a big part of its limited supply of hard currency to import a million pairs of Levi's jeans in 1978. Also, when the wall fell, many east Berliners celebrated their first night of freedom in west Berlin supermarkets shopping till they dropped.
Depends. In some ways, Eastern European societies were much more sustainable. It absolutely wasn't universal, and it would be stupid to pretend otherwise to score political points. And also, some of these still exist in Europe today, but not all. But pretending they didn't have any advantages compared to the current systems is very foolish too.
- They barely had plastic. Used paper bags and glass bottles. You could go to the store with your own bottle and collect how much you wanted of that milk.
- They built walkable cities, where you wouldn't have needed a car to get around. Schools, shops sometimes even hospitals and work, all within walking distance. Much better than American suburbs
- A big focus on public transport too. Buses, tramways, trolleybuses, metros. It was very easy to get around big cities and often even beyond them to smaller cities nearby.
- A big emphasis on development of railroads and train lines over highways and cars. Including to smaller cities. Even one railway to go across all of Siberia!
Meanwhile, today, even developing countries in Africa always start by building highways, meanwhile railroads are barely expanded anymore. Because they believe that cars are the best and necessary to show you're developed, it's what the West does, after all.
Unfortunately, that's the big problem too, in the Cold War, the Eastern Bloc failed, so the Western Bloc, especially the USA, has their economic and social system viewed as objectively the best one without any alternatives available. And even countries who hate the West or claim to be "communist" still end up doing everything like the West does, unquestionably, because it's seen as superior.
The walkability and public transport are equally valid for western Europe, which was capitalist.
Regarding all the stuff that you mention, most of it is again, forced sustainability due to poverty. Communist countries had no problem building an asbestos factory on an untouched beach or dumping nuclear waste in open lakes. The common people were obsessed with consumer goods precisely because they were so rare and having a pair of jeans or a western car were status symbols that people were willing to risk prison in order to obtain.
This whole "not materialist" schtick was propaganda sold to the westerners in order to explain the obvious failing of the economy.
Meanwhile we were being told that capitalism was destined to destroy itself and that communism would be able to provide us an even greater level of luxury than those rotten westerners had. The current misery was just a little bump on the road to a bright future. There was nothing anti-consumerist about their policy, even in theory.
@@gamermapper this all gets irrelevant when you remember that bad quality and heavily polluent coal was heavily used. also, many chemical and waste facilities had no filtering
So about the video essay person point. I know, you know, and everyone knows that video essays are a varied bunch, but in relation to consumerism and anticapitalist/anti industry (specifically Hollywood) there are quite a few that approach it from the standpoint of, I LOVE xyz cultural item but we as a society can’t just make more good movies or video games because we have so many boxes to check to get it past focus testing, or to even get the thing funded. The Wiley coyote and acme movie is a great example. They just threw it out because apparently the studio powers that be thought no one would watch it. I don’t know if my parents just had me late in life and exposed me to dying culture or what, but that reason is bullshit, looney toones has been and will be very influential and popular. The anti capitalist frustration is in this case more at the obvious waste when they can’t even come up with a plausible reason.
All that being said, I have mellowed quite a bit on my anti capitalism since the pandemic. The world sucks too much for me to not buy myself nostalgic and happy things. Thank you for this summary, I love your videos
On one hand yes there a weird incentives in play to just not realise a product but even then the product you’re discussing wouldn’t exist without all the previous capitalistic structures.
The idea that without capitalism we could just have nice things is also kind of bunk, the ‘box checking’ is people who control purse strings deciding if you deserve the resources. Unless we’re replacing that with a system of forced labour if someone wants to make a massively labour intensive film they would still need to negotiate for all the human and material resources to make it happen.
Funny because most people agree that movies done in USSR and Eastern Bloc were much better than current movies from Eastern Europe. Even George Lucas applauded the socialist ideals of quality over quantity.
I absolutely find you persuasive. I know people who, having been extremely frivolous in their younger years, now derive guilt from doing what consumer shopping they really have to do (eg. getting a new vacuum cleaner). I think getting them to watch this video and thinking on it will be of immense benefit to their wellbeing.
Things like Temu and fast fashion are what I think of when I think of the negatives of consumerism.
Id also like to hear your thoughts on Planned Obsolescence and companies actively fighting people who want the ability to repair their appliance, phone etc
Who let this dude cook
I really appreciate the underlying theme of gratitude in this video. Thanks for the reminder JJ
Owning things is good. Owning things can be used as colateral to get other things. Money itself is just like water. We use it or lose it
I think the abundance of anti-consumerist rhetoric is a good thing, because corporations act a lot like sociopaths who will do whatever it takes to make as much cash as possible unless there's incentives to behave at a minimum level of morality. Corporations would sell cocaine to children if it were legal, which isn't the case because it would cause public outrage.
9:37
"As the right comes to steal anti-science from the left"
What part of your soul did you have to lock away to say that with a straight face 😂
So the anti-vaxxers and anti-GMO activists were not originally leftists?
Seems a bit odd to take your info from the companies own websites which are essentially an extension of their marketing. It makes me think of John Oliver's episode on carbon offsets, where several companies that claimed to be eco-friendly were actually just pretending to be.
I think companies are pretty sensitive about PR. Do you think lying is good PR?
@@JJMcCulloughit’s excellent PR as long as you don’t get caught lmao
P.s. you don’t have to lie to be misleading
@@josiahbaumgartner7643 do you think we live in a culture where corporations are generally trusted and their word is taken seriously or not?
@@JJMcCulloughI think the problem is that you’re taking them at their word. Apple, for example, constantly talks about what they’re doing to “help consumers and the environment” while also engaging in practices that are incredibly (and unnecessarily) anti-consumer and damaging to the environment.
@@JJMcCullough We actually do live in that society, yes
Ironically I think pessimism and cynicism are the fast food of thinking. Criticism without creating anything or giving a better solution.
That's actually very profound
Loved the conversation with Destiny! I felt like I got to see a different side to you that I normally don't! 😊
12:42 NOT THE BISEXUAL LIGHTING LOL
Clearly a stab at Hbomberguy hahahaha
People critique consumerism a lot but rarely is it ever constructive, the only solution offered to modern problems is "don't buy stuff and hate corporations" and unless tou want to live off the land, off the grid, etc. that's not feasible. I'd rather live in a consumerist society than a pre consumerist one.
Also include the fact that this "anti-consumerism" is just memes, none of this shit actually holds up to real life systems and policies.
Does it hurt to strawman people that hard? Critics of consumerism don't want you to go live in the woods. To avoid consumerism, you simply need to avoid buying things you won't enjoy, clothes you will only wear once, objects designed to be thrown away, etc.
@@_xeerethat's not avoiding consumerism, that's just consuming responsibly
@@_xeere You are still practicing consumerism, you are still relying on corporations to create those clothes, you are relying on corporations to create that PC/Phone for you to be able to comment on RUclips.
You will never avoid consumerism bro, consumerism isn't inherently a bad thing.
@@spektr4625 Consuming an item has two steps, "purchase" and "dispose". When people critique consumerism, they are critiquing the process buy which items without value are bought and discarded. You are proposing that you don't do the dispose part. Hence you are not consuming the item. I suppose if you redefine "consumerism" as just "buying things", then consumerism wouldn't be inherently bad, but that's hardly a productive argument. Anything could be good if it meant something different to what it does.
Well, I am an Industrial Designer (EU citizens frankly). Professionally speaking, consumerism should be critiqued in its core because, even if the production is as green as never before, the pace we are consuming goods as a society gains speed and is not about to slow down. This is one of the major factors that are connected to consumerism and sadly green initiatives do not really help if the system around is not appropriately designed. E.g. reusable and recyclable may sound good but (especially in north america) the infrastructure barely exists to roll out programs like these nor is the standardization of plastics and other resources thought through. (For example PET of one bottle does not necessarily match the PET of another bottle).
Consumerism should be appreciated as a concept but also seen as systemically flawed and totally changed to match future needs and in line with co2 emissions targets as well as functioning circular methods.
JJ… I’ve been subscribed for years. Your open-mindedness is something we all overlook in one way or another. I appreciate you. Thank you for your research and presentation. Thank you. Thank you!
I love you man
Commies big mad about free markets
I don't personally see consumerism as "immoral." It comes down to basic sustainability. We can't sustain this level of buying shit we don't need.
Is it moral to buy more things than we need?
@@JJMcCullough I don't think morality enters into the discussion one way or the other, so to that degree I see it as amoral. I do appreciate the perspective you offer (as always), and I like that you are emphasizing how positive changes are already being made by some corporate interests.
@@JJMcCullough On an unrelated matter, I thought I would share with you that a video that you made in the past few weeks that I keep coming back to in my mind is the one about whether schools ought to emphasize skills, facts, or ideas more. It's a question I've been asking family members, students, and colleagues (I'm an adjunct college writing instructor). Obviously, having all three is important, but as to a relative emphasis, I am undecided. I guess I tend to gravitate more towards ideas (maybe as a result of accidentally reading Plato's Republic when I was eleven?). Anyway, I appreciate your content (gratitude!) as it really helps stimulate my own thinking on the topic. (My spouse conflates facts and ideas, claiming that ideas are based on prior facts--that one can't have ideas without some preexisting facts.)
practicing gratitude has forever changed my life. it just makes every aspect of life feel more special and makes me appreciate all the things around me that i take for granted. i feel that if everyone practiced gratefulness then we’d live in less of a self-loathing, pessimistic society
I was so happy to see paper bags return to some of my favourite stores.
The paper is biodegradable and can even be used as a fire starter if you still have a wood burning stove.
The oil that would have been used to make that plastic bag can go where it belongs, in my gas tank.
How much oil is used to manufacture the paper bags as opposed to using plastic bags?
Both the left and right moderates have reasonable points. We should go out and get close to nature a little or focus and spend more time with family rather than constantly buying stuff. We do feel like we have become too obsessed with consumerism and not being more appreciative of what we do have or get. Like people who constantly buy $1000 phones and replacing them shortly later rather than keeping them for a few years at least. That too much consumerism has made us soulless and depressed. I feel we should moderate about buying and appreciate it as much as we can.
JJ just loves to be the contrarian, I think he is getting some sort of pleasure from going against the norms of society. I love it
Crazy how the self-described conservative moderate pro-status quo guy loves having the unpopular opinion !!!!!!!!!!
This is one of the best articulated and well-argued videos you’ve created JJ. Great video.
Nice piece JJ. I listened to this while adding a bunch of stuff to my Temu cart.
I love consumerism