I agree...good analysis. Jake overall had too much skill and ruggedness for Rocky. He was also relatively hard to hit for such an aggressive fighter and had a damn good jab, which Sugar Ray could attest to.
They asked Angelo Dundee this question. He trained both. He laughed. He said LaMotta would have mopped the floor with him. You have to remember, Graziano was a blown-up welterweight. LaMotta always struggled to make middleweight.
When you look at the photo on the thumbnail you can see Rocky is bigger, and don't take Dundee's word as Gospel, he was wrong many times, especially with Ali and Leonard...
I remember Rocky Graziano doing TV commercials back in the late 50s. SOMEBODY UP THERE LIKES ME with the Great Newman and Pier Angeli playing as husband and wife.
LaMotta and Graziano were pals. They first met in reform school. Graziano and LaMotta both started out fighting in the street. Most of Graziano's street fights did not last long. His dynamite right hand put a lot of guys to sleep. I gotta go with LaMotta in this matchup. Graziano's only chance would be to hurt LaMotta, and keep punching until maybe the Ref stops the fight. This is how Graziano beat Tony Zale for the title in their second fight.
Jake, no question. Based on how each did against Ray Robinson (edge: Lamotta), and Jake's iron chin. When Jake fought Ray in their last fight together on Feb 14/51, Robinson's record was 121-1-2, the only loss to LaMotta in 1942. Incredible in an era with some many good and great fighters.
In those first 5 fights Jake had a significant weight pull in each fight. Over 10lbs and more in some of them. Robinson was still a Welterweight. Graziano fought a full blown Middleweight Robinson, stronger and more experienced. Rocky dropped Sugar Ray before Robinson flipped the script on him.
With out a doubt Lamotta all the way u can t take nothing for him he's one of the most tough test fighters that ever that ever lived maybe a rematch he still would of won graziano might give him a good fight be I don't think he would win
Their most notable common opponent Sugar Ray Robinson stopped Graziano in less than 5 rds. Lamatta fought Robinson 5 times and rates well among his Rays toughest opponents. He was Robinsons first defeat.The show would have been a big draw, as Rocky was a very popular fighter after his 3 epic battles with Tony Zale. Though is fair to say Zale was on the downside of his career by the time he Graziano won 2nd match, then lost the middleweight title back to him. I believe “ Rich The Fight Historian” has good rundown of how it would have unfolded here. But obviously, we’ll never really know for sure. ✌️
Rocky Graziano was rated by the Ring Magazine (2022)as the 21st hardest puncher of all time. Jake LaMotta was not listed in this category of the 100 hardest punchers of all time. Of Rocky's 67 victories 52 were by KO or TKO (78%). Of Jake LaMotta's 83 victories 30 were by KO or TKO (36%). LaMotta was a better boxer and was tough, and both men were emotional fighters. I think Graziao's heavier punches would shake LaMotta and interfere with his overall strategy. Both men would slug it out and both had great endurance. A bout between the two was scheduled for 1950, but never happened. In 1950 Lamotta was vulnerable to to a hard puncher like Graziano. LaMotta suffered two TKOs in 1951, one by Sugar Ray Robinson, and the other by Bob Murphy. Rocky would score a TKO in the later rounds.
No chance. Bob Murphy was a full blown light heavyweight and Sugar Ray Robinson was Sugar Ray Robinson. You deliberately chose not to mention LaMotta's legendary granite chin. Graziano would not knock him out.
Lamotta no doubt, Graziano was a Light MW by modern standards and Lamotta in truth was a SMW who could just about make MW, I’ve read the Ring from the late 40’s and Lamotta was seen as the uncrowned MW Champ of the World, he fought a much higher calibre of boxer too 🥊 Lamotta in 8.
Used to talk with Jake & Rock when they hung out at PJ Clark's in the 1970's. Spot on with your assessment, as Jake would take the high road when asked by others. "We wuz friends" Jake would reply. Learned a lot from Jake, especially head movement, while Rocky would say "the punch" makes his day. From our conversations, I'd say Jake was more scientific and calculating, a volume puncher, while Rocky looked for the KO.
What a great fight that would have been! Graziano was always one of my favorite fighters, a street fighter, and Hoodlum, who spent alot of time behind bars. He also had the hardest right hand in Middleweight History. LaMotta had the best chin in Boxing History, and a ferocious body attack. I know this would have been a great match up, Jake might have been able to out last Rocky, if he didn't get caught with a few of those right hand bombs that were packing the seats in all the New York Arenas. I'm not going to pick a winner, could have went either way...
I'd pick Lamotta by UD. Graziano was a great puncher, but I don't think he'd crack Lamotta's defense & iron chin. I'd pick Graziano to hang on in there until the end because Lamotta wasn't a big knockout puncher and I'll give Rocky the credit that he'd be able to survive until the final bell, although I think Lamotta would be way up on the cards.
LaMotta was a way better boxer than given credit for. He had a much better chin than Rocky also. Though it would be an exciting fight for the first few rounds, LaMotta would win a clear dec. 👍👍👍
I feel like Rocky would almost surely need to KO Jake, which seems very unlikely. Graziano’s story is a great one, rags-to-riches and all, and he beat a great, great champ (as did LaMotta, in beating Cerdan) in Tony Zale, but Rocky’s KO-or-Bust style wouldn’t serve him well vs LaMotta (it didn’t do him much good against Sugar ray Robinson either, but that’s a different story). Then again, I don’t believe rocky was “supposed to” beat Zale either… LaMotta-Zale is another fascinating fantasy matchup I don’t hear discussed…
Graziano may get lucky if he was to counter LaMotta with his right hand. But if it goes to deep waters which it probably will, LaMotta will either the decision or stop Graziano, plus LaMotta has more stamina.
I like Graziano, he had genetic gifts also, but he hated training and was kind of 1 handed. Whereas Lamotta wouldn't have left an unturned stone on something like this.
LaMotta didn't care for training either. Between eating a ton, and paranoid, psychological issues... LaMotta always seemed to have a full plate and a glass half empty. It's truly inspiring that he suffered little to no brain damage.
@@danielspicer2359 Yes n no, yes he'd "reward" himself and balloon up in between fights, that's true. In as much as disliked training, he possessed a maniacal will, and was able to discipline himself like a Spartan intentionally depriving and tormenting himself, which I'm sure was the catalyst contributing force to his behavior. They're all genetically special at that level, but Graziano could've accomplished more for longer if he'd have had the training attitude of say Marciano.
@@discernment8963 All that weight fluctuation is dangerous for anyone. Not just boxers. But Roy Jones Jr. Is a prime example. Roy wasn't even a shell of his prime self, when he retired. Jake LaMotta slipped punches better than Roy, when Roy was nearing his end and Roy was more stylish than Muhammad Ali to me, and the fastest boxer I've ever watched in my life. But winning the belt in 5 weight classes, I believe.. Took it's toll on him.
@@danielspicer2359 I couldn't agree more. For the way LaMotta lived his life in all ways it just confirms how different each individual is, with some having a stronger constitution than others. With some "playing the odds" so speak in subscribing to a "healthy lifestyle" yet living a relatively short life, then you hear about the complete opposite to actually fairly frequently.
i think they were both past there best even though Lamotta was still champ. Jake was a bit bigger, more skilled had a good jab for a short stocky build and a much better chin. I once read Graziano was the best middleweight in the welterweight division , Lamotta aslo fought his share of smaller men and some bigger men. Jakes leval of oppostion was higher than Rockys, Lamotta the better fighter for sure.
Jake would be a horrible matchup for Rocky. Naturally about 10-12lbs heavier. Totally relentless. Insanely good chin, and good at rolling shots. Rocky wouldn’t have stood a chance
Rocky in his prime was barely a MW. He could have really been WW. Jake was naturally bigger. Rocky was shot after the last Zale fight. The rest of his fights were just money fights. His win over Gene Burton was suspect and he threw the Chuck Davey fight. Norris gave him 50,000 to lose to Davey. He was best from 1942, 1947.
LaMotta would have kicked the crap out of Graziano who was really not a very good fighter, a product of the media. LaMotta would have hit rocky so hard that his grandchildren would have been sore
Bonne analyse jaurais parier sur graziano car cetait un puncheur fort encaisseur et lamotta netait pqs plus solide que zale zale frapait plus fort que lamotta
I heard a story the Rocky deliberately broke his hand to avoid that fight. Who knows how true that is. What is true is that LaMotta would of crushed him. Everyone knew it including Rocky.
Graziano hit very hard and fought in flurries. He would have hurt LaMotta who did not have Rocky's punching power. Graziano would have beaten LaMotta by TKO in the latter rounds
I agree...good analysis. Jake overall had too much skill and ruggedness for Rocky. He was also relatively hard to hit for such an aggressive fighter and had a damn good jab, which Sugar Ray could attest to.
They asked Angelo Dundee this question. He trained both. He laughed. He said LaMotta would have mopped the floor with him. You have to remember, Graziano was a blown-up welterweight. LaMotta always struggled to make middleweight.
When you look at the photo on the thumbnail you can see Rocky is bigger, and don't take Dundee's word as Gospel, he was wrong many times, especially with Ali and Leonard...
Rockey kicked his ass in the reform shool lol
If there’s a shred of evidence that Angelo Dundee trained either Graziano or LaMotta, I’d like to see it.
I remember Rocky Graziano doing TV commercials back in the late 50s. SOMEBODY UP THERE LIKES ME with the Great Newman and Pier Angeli playing as husband and wife.
Jake would have won, but it would have been a great contest
LaMotta and Graziano were pals. They first met in reform school. Graziano and LaMotta both started out fighting in the street. Most of Graziano's street fights did not last long. His dynamite right hand put a lot of guys to sleep. I gotta go with LaMotta in this matchup. Graziano's only chance would be to hurt LaMotta, and keep punching until maybe the Ref stops the fight. This is how Graziano beat Tony Zale for the title in their second fight.
If graziano beat zale he coulda beat anyone😅
Zale a massacré Graziano
@@keiththeissen15he went 1 and 2. Not to discredit that accomplishment but still
LaMotta, no question about it. He was more aggressive, vicious and was more durable. I'm sure Sugar Ray Robinson would agree.
Jake, no question. Based on how each did against Ray Robinson (edge: Lamotta), and Jake's iron chin.
When Jake fought Ray in their last fight together on Feb 14/51, Robinson's record was 121-1-2, the only loss to LaMotta in 1942. Incredible in an era with some many good and great fighters.
In those first 5 fights Jake had a significant weight pull in each fight. Over 10lbs and more in some of them. Robinson was still a Welterweight. Graziano fought a full blown Middleweight Robinson, stronger and more experienced. Rocky dropped Sugar Ray before Robinson flipped the script on him.
With out a doubt Lamotta all the way u can t take nothing for him he's one of the most tough test fighters that ever that ever lived maybe a rematch he still would of won graziano might give him a good fight be I don't think he would win
Completely agree!
Their most notable common opponent Sugar Ray Robinson stopped Graziano in less than 5 rds. Lamatta fought Robinson 5 times and rates well among his Rays toughest opponents. He was Robinsons first defeat.The show would have been a big draw, as Rocky was a very popular fighter after his 3 epic battles with Tony Zale. Though is fair to say Zale was on the downside of his career by the time he Graziano won 2nd match, then lost the middleweight title back to him. I believe “ Rich The Fight Historian” has good rundown of how it would have unfolded here. But obviously, we’ll never really know for sure. ✌️
True but remember Graziano decked Robinson with a right hand as well.
it doesn't matter if Jake beat Sugar Ray, there's that old saying "styles make the matches", and that is true
Jake was too big, too strong, too skilled, and had too much stamina and durability. I think it would’ve been an awesome fight tho
Great video
Rocky Graziano was rated by the Ring Magazine (2022)as the 21st hardest puncher of all time. Jake LaMotta was not listed in this category of the 100 hardest punchers of all time. Of Rocky's 67 victories 52 were by KO or TKO (78%). Of Jake LaMotta's 83 victories 30 were by KO or TKO (36%). LaMotta was a better boxer and was tough, and both men were emotional fighters. I think Graziao's heavier punches would shake LaMotta and interfere with his overall strategy. Both men would slug it out and both had great endurance. A bout between the two was scheduled for 1950, but never happened. In 1950 Lamotta was vulnerable to to a hard puncher like Graziano. LaMotta suffered two TKOs in 1951, one by Sugar Ray Robinson, and the other by Bob Murphy. Rocky would score a TKO in the later rounds.
No chance.
Bob Murphy was a full blown light heavyweight and Sugar Ray Robinson was Sugar Ray Robinson.
You deliberately chose not to mention LaMotta's legendary granite chin.
Graziano would not knock him out.
Jake was a lucky man, his wife was so beautiful.
Teddy Atlas said of this theoretical matchup: "Lamotta would've eaten him up like a little Italian candy."
Lamotta no doubt, Graziano was a Light MW by modern standards and Lamotta in truth was a SMW who could just about make MW, I’ve read the Ring from the late 40’s and Lamotta was seen as the uncrowned MW Champ of the World, he fought a much higher calibre of boxer too 🥊
Lamotta in 8.
Lamotta, all day long
Used to talk with Jake & Rock when they hung out at PJ Clark's in the 1970's. Spot on with your assessment, as Jake would take the high road when asked by others. "We wuz friends" Jake would reply. Learned a lot from Jake, especially head movement, while Rocky would say "the punch" makes his day. From our conversations, I'd say Jake was more scientific and calculating, a volume puncher, while Rocky looked for the KO.
What a great fight that would have been! Graziano was always one of my favorite fighters, a street fighter, and Hoodlum, who spent alot of time behind bars. He also had the hardest right hand in Middleweight History. LaMotta had the best chin in Boxing History, and a ferocious body attack. I know this would have been a great match up, Jake might have been able to out last Rocky, if he didn't get caught with a few of those right hand bombs that were packing the seats in all the New York Arenas. I'm not going to pick a winner, could have went either way...
I'd pick Lamotta by UD. Graziano was a great puncher, but I don't think he'd crack Lamotta's defense & iron chin. I'd pick Graziano to hang on in there until the end because Lamotta wasn't a big knockout puncher and I'll give Rocky the credit that he'd be able to survive until the final bell, although I think Lamotta would be way up on the cards.
Definitely would be an anvil breaks the hammer scenario..
LaMotta was a way better boxer than given credit for. He had a much better chin than Rocky also. Though it would be an exciting fight for the first few rounds, LaMotta would win a clear dec. 👍👍👍
Brooklyn vs Bronx. Great fight.
Its graziano all the way in fact Stallone was famous thanks to Rocky graziano ,not rocky Marciano .as most people think
I feel like Rocky would almost surely need to KO Jake, which seems very unlikely. Graziano’s story is a great one, rags-to-riches and all, and he beat a great, great champ (as did LaMotta, in beating Cerdan) in Tony Zale, but Rocky’s KO-or-Bust style wouldn’t serve him well vs LaMotta (it didn’t do him much good against Sugar ray Robinson either, but that’s a different story). Then again, I don’t believe rocky was “supposed to” beat Zale either…
LaMotta-Zale is another fascinating fantasy matchup I don’t hear discussed…
Graziano may get lucky if he was to counter LaMotta with his right hand. But if it goes to deep waters which it probably will, LaMotta will either the decision or stop Graziano, plus LaMotta has more stamina.
I like Graziano, he had genetic gifts also, but he hated training and was kind of 1 handed. Whereas Lamotta wouldn't have left an unturned stone on something like this.
LaMotta didn't care for training either. Between eating a ton, and paranoid, psychological issues... LaMotta always seemed to have a full plate and a glass half empty. It's truly inspiring that he suffered little to no brain damage.
@@danielspicer2359 Yes n no, yes he'd "reward" himself and balloon up in between fights, that's true. In as much as disliked training, he possessed a maniacal will, and was able to discipline himself like a Spartan intentionally depriving and tormenting himself, which I'm sure was the catalyst contributing force to his behavior. They're all genetically special at that level, but Graziano could've accomplished more for longer if he'd have had the training attitude of say Marciano.
@@discernment8963 All that weight fluctuation is dangerous for anyone. Not just boxers. But Roy Jones Jr. Is a prime example. Roy wasn't even a shell of his prime self, when he retired. Jake LaMotta slipped punches better than Roy, when Roy was nearing his end and Roy was more stylish than Muhammad Ali to me, and the fastest boxer I've ever watched in my life. But winning the belt in 5 weight classes, I believe.. Took it's toll on him.
@@danielspicer2359 I couldn't agree more. For the way LaMotta lived his life in all ways it just confirms how different each individual is, with some having a stronger constitution than others. With some "playing the odds" so speak in subscribing to a "healthy lifestyle" yet living a relatively short life, then you hear about the complete opposite to actually fairly frequently.
Try adding Carmen Basilio and Gene Fullmer into the mix, though they are a couple of years down the road
Great job Rich.Hard to tell who would win.Guess well never know!Who do you think would win at lightweight.Prime Duran or Argeullo??
I've always thought Duran would be too big, strong and versatile for Arguello.
The fans win / would have !!!!
Jake all day long! I love both fighters but Rocky was mostly a big right hand. Jake all around great fighter plus a HOF chin
i think they were both past there best even though Lamotta was still champ. Jake was a bit bigger, more skilled had a good jab for a short stocky build and a much better chin. I once read Graziano was the best middleweight in the welterweight division , Lamotta aslo fought his share of smaller men and some bigger men. Jakes leval of oppostion was higher than Rockys, Lamotta the better fighter for sure.
Jake would be a horrible matchup for Rocky. Naturally about 10-12lbs heavier. Totally relentless. Insanely good chin, and good at rolling shots. Rocky wouldn’t have stood a chance
Rocky in his prime was barely a MW. He could have really been WW. Jake was naturally bigger. Rocky was shot after the last Zale fight. The rest of his fights were just money fights. His win over Gene Burton was suspect and he threw the Chuck Davey fight. Norris gave him 50,000 to lose to Davey. He was best from 1942, 1947.
LaMotta would have kicked the crap out of Graziano who was really not a very good fighter, a product of the media. LaMotta would have hit rocky so hard that his grandchildren would have been sore
"The Raging Bull"Jake Lamotta by eleventh round ko.
Without a doubt, Jake LaMotta.
Bonne analyse jaurais parier sur graziano car cetait un puncheur fort encaisseur et lamotta netait pqs plus solide que zale zale frapait plus fort que lamotta
I heard a story the Rocky deliberately broke his hand to avoid that fight. Who knows how true that is. What is true is that LaMotta would of crushed him. Everyone knew it including Rocky.
La Motta
LaMotta 100%
I've seen footage of Graziano's third fight with Zale and his fight wth Robinson and he looked terrible in both of them.
The raging bull by ko
The winner would be Rocky Marciano.
Lamotta would have knocked Graziano out.
I gotta go with the Raging Bull 🎉🎉
Jake all the way...
Lamotta
Jake la motta the raging bull
Draw
A draw
Graziano by stoppage after landing that right too often.
Graziano hit very hard and fought in flurries. He would have hurt LaMotta who did not have Rocky's punching power. Graziano would have beaten LaMotta by TKO in the latter rounds