I am not a pro player, just a viewer. I can't understand for example why Olivera and pro players just don't build two instead of one turret when opponent is attacking few times at the same mineral field with muta? I mean 14:27 this is the third time, why not just build ONE MORE turret?
You can totally build two turrets if there is huge number of mutas but there are many reasons not to. First, muta can attack multiple bases, in order for that to be effective you have to build two turrets in every base otherwise they just attack the ones with one or no turret anyway. Second, two turrets in every base is quite expensive and that puts your econ in a bad position. Terren is not that afraid of losing SVCs in the mine field because they have mules. Third, mutas are not suppose to do that much damage. They serve as a distraction. If you put two turrets in every base, (1 extra turret is worth 2 SCVs) they can still attack you just not for that long and you instantly down 2 SCVs for each base because you build 1 extra. Fourth, mutas can be used to take down reinforcement and buildings if they can't attack mineral field. Again, they are a distraction not an attack force. And there are so many more such as turret placement, no matter how you place the two turrets, there gonna be an angle where only 1 can attack the mutas. Also, mute is like a surprise strategy. They are useless if spotted early and that's why most of the time zerg only builds one group of mutas and never touch them again. Building two turrets mean you already know they are coming so they should do even less damage.
The build says make 1 turret and mass repair it if mutas come in, so they make one turret. It doesnt matter if they fail to mass repair it 3 times and lose 20 workers, the build says make 1 turret.
@@taykex3483 1 additional turret in every base is less expensive than replacing any amount of scvs that die to mutas. If you lose 2 scvs on a base and have to replace them, that already cost you more than building 1 more turret because you lose mining time on top of the 2 scvs. Terran does care about losing workers. You need the income from your fully saturated bases + mules to keep up with a zerg that has more workers and more bases. You are not instantly down 2 scvs per base if you build more turrets, because terran economy is limited by the amount of mineral patches you can access, not by how many workers you can make. It is very easy for terran to make more workers than you can mine with effectively. Often 2 base terrans will be on 50+ workers, 3 base terrans on 70+. This means you have several spare scvs that can make buildings without losing mining time. One of those scvs can build an extra turret in your most exposed mineral line. You dont HAVE to make a 2nd turret in every base. If you make one in the base that is most vulnerable to mutas, it will force them to reroute, which means time they are not doing damage for a while. Then they have to go attack a more well defended base thats closer to your production or your rally point, where you can force them away faster which means even less damage. If you place the turrets next to each other in the mineral line, the workers can path in between them and if the mutas try to attack one the other one can shoot because they have 7 range vs the 4 range of the mutas. With the range upgrade they get 8 range, and building armor is also extremely good on them, boosting their armor from 0 to 2 and reducing glaive bounce damage to 1. They are the highest DPS, the tankiest, most cost effective anti air in the game and they can be repaired for a few minerals on top of that. Mutas are supposed to do damage, theyre literally flying glass cannon units that cost 100/100 each. If they dont do much damage the zerg has lost the game. If the mutas are forced to fight units or buildings instead of killing workers, that is advantageous for the terran. It is in fact always advantageous for any race to force opponents units to fight anything except your workers. You need to protect your workers so they can mine so you can make more units. That is the most fundamental concept in all of starcraft. As the OP said, the mutas attacked the same mineral line 3 times, it was not a surprise the 2nd or 3rd time. The only reason not to build an extra turret there is that it was a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. This was a mistake from the terran. It is in fact a very common mistake for professional sc2 players to underbuild static defence and take unnecessary economic damage from counter attacks. If terran players made appropriate amounts of turrets vs air comps, they would need to be nerfed. You are probably in gold league or dont play terran because literally everything you said was wrong.
Now, to go into the specifics of this game, Oliveria skimped on defense and stopped making workers at 65 because he went for an 8 rax all-in timing with 1-1, stim and combat shields. If he had planned a more defensive game he would have a bunker set up at the 3rd in addition to the turret, which would it much harder for the lings to kill the turret if he surrounds it and holds position with the workers. The lings wont auto target the scvs or the turret if there is something shooting at them. He would also with a more defensive position have gone up over 70 workers instead of stopping at 65. Then, after the mutas attack the first time, he will lose some workers, but after that he could set up more turrets, get a 2nd factory, build some widow mines, burrow them in hidden spots between mineral patches and behind radar dish of the CCs, so the mutas cant just A-move into the same mineral line over and over. These are trivial costs compared to the cost of losing half a mineral line and having to pull the other half away for 30 seconds until the mutas leave. The first attack on the 3rd with mutas + lings killed the turret, 7 workers and forced a pull back to the natural. Then Oliveria rebuilds the turret late so the 2nd time it isnt even finished and he loses 3 workers, the turret and has to pull back to the natural. The third attack with lings only, kills 12 workers because no bunker at the 3rd. Then the mutas come in and kill 3 workers but Oliveira succesfully surrounds the turret and mass repairs it this time. With the 5th attack the mutas kill the sensor tower which costs 100/100 and is completely exposed. The 6th attack on the third sees the mutas trade out vs the turret which is being mass repaired, losing 1 muta to kill it. The mutas then kill 8 scvs and a siege tank and proceed to kill the 5th CC. So Oliveira, by failing to adequately shore up and defend his 3rd, lost 33 workers, lots of mining time, 3 turrets, a sensor tower, a siege tank and a CC. It lost him the game. Even without accounting for the lost mining time, the cost of the damage Oliveira took on the 3rd base is 450 + 250 + 600 + 150 + 100/100 + 1050/125 for a total of 2600/225. The lost mining time also amounts to several minutes of mining on the whole base due to the worker pulls and the undersaturation resulting from losing workers so thats at least another 1000 minerals lost. If Oliveira had built a bunker behind the mineral line with 1 or 2 marines in it, he would already have been able to defend against the ling attacks a lot more cost effectively. He could have literally built up to like 30 turrets and it would have been cheaper than the amount of damage he took to his economy. Thats excessive of course, but for example 4 turrets per base, would have been perfectly reasonable in this game. Turrets dont cost supply and dont need to be micro'd. He would have been able to afford them easily because his mining would not be constantly interrupted. He just didnt build proper defense at any point in the game because in his mind he was allin from 6 minutes to the end of the game and he wasnt able to get out of that mindset like a Maru or Clem or TY would be able to. Oliveira is a good player but he is not that experienced yet making it deep in the highest level tournaments.
34:22 74 BANELINGS! "This is the LEAST cost efficient ever" ??????????????? Caster error? Do you mean MOST? Lol I didn't even watch the rest of the game and know Zerg rolled over Terran. And no that's not a spoiler...we're watching ZvT.
ESL, can you reduce the gamma on the recording PC a bit for your next tournament. Its at like 2.2 when it should be 1.9. The contrast ratio is awful.
I am not a pro player, just a viewer. I can't understand for example why Olivera and pro players just don't build two instead of one turret when opponent is attacking few times at the same mineral field with muta? I mean 14:27 this is the third time, why not just build ONE MORE turret?
You can totally build two turrets if there is huge number of mutas but there are many reasons not to. First, muta can attack multiple bases, in order for that to be effective you have to build two turrets in every base otherwise they just attack the ones with one or no turret anyway. Second, two turrets in every base is quite expensive and that puts your econ in a bad position. Terren is not that afraid of losing SVCs in the mine field because they have mules. Third, mutas are not suppose to do that much damage. They serve as a distraction. If you put two turrets in every base, (1 extra turret is worth 2 SCVs) they can still attack you just not for that long and you instantly down 2 SCVs for each base because you build 1 extra. Fourth, mutas can be used to take down reinforcement and buildings if they can't attack mineral field. Again, they are a distraction not an attack force. And there are so many more such as turret placement, no matter how you place the two turrets, there gonna be an angle where only 1 can attack the mutas. Also, mute is like a surprise strategy. They are useless if spotted early and that's why most of the time zerg only builds one group of mutas and never touch them again. Building two turrets mean you already know they are coming so they should do even less damage.
@@taykex3483 great
The build says make 1 turret and mass repair it if mutas come in, so they make one turret. It doesnt matter if they fail to mass repair it 3 times and lose 20 workers, the build says make 1 turret.
@@taykex3483 1 additional turret in every base is less expensive than replacing any amount of scvs that die to mutas. If you lose 2 scvs on a base and have to replace them, that already cost you more than building 1 more turret because you lose mining time on top of the 2 scvs.
Terran does care about losing workers. You need the income from your fully saturated bases + mules to keep up with a zerg that has more workers and more bases.
You are not instantly down 2 scvs per base if you build more turrets, because terran economy is limited by the amount of mineral patches you can access, not by how many workers you can make. It is very easy for terran to make more workers than you can mine with effectively. Often 2 base terrans will be on 50+ workers, 3 base terrans on 70+. This means you have several spare scvs that can make buildings without losing mining time. One of those scvs can build an extra turret in your most exposed mineral line.
You dont HAVE to make a 2nd turret in every base. If you make one in the base that is most vulnerable to mutas, it will force them to reroute, which means time they are not doing damage for a while. Then they have to go attack a more well defended base thats closer to your production or your rally point, where you can force them away faster which means even less damage.
If you place the turrets next to each other in the mineral line, the workers can path in between them and if the mutas try to attack one the other one can shoot because they have 7 range vs the 4 range of the mutas. With the range upgrade they get 8 range, and building armor is also extremely good on them, boosting their armor from 0 to 2 and reducing glaive bounce damage to 1. They are the highest DPS, the tankiest, most cost effective anti air in the game and they can be repaired for a few minerals on top of that.
Mutas are supposed to do damage, theyre literally flying glass cannon units that cost 100/100 each. If they dont do much damage the zerg has lost the game.
If the mutas are forced to fight units or buildings instead of killing workers, that is advantageous for the terran. It is in fact always advantageous for any race to force opponents units to fight anything except your workers. You need to protect your workers so they can mine so you can make more units. That is the most fundamental concept in all of starcraft.
As the OP said, the mutas attacked the same mineral line 3 times, it was not a surprise the 2nd or 3rd time. The only reason not to build an extra turret there is that it was a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. This was a mistake from the terran. It is in fact a very common mistake for professional sc2 players to underbuild static defence and take unnecessary economic damage from counter attacks. If terran players made appropriate amounts of turrets vs air comps, they would need to be nerfed.
You are probably in gold league or dont play terran because literally everything you said was wrong.
Now, to go into the specifics of this game, Oliveria skimped on defense and stopped making workers at 65 because he went for an 8 rax all-in timing with 1-1, stim and combat shields. If he had planned a more defensive game he would have a bunker set up at the 3rd in addition to the turret, which would it much harder for the lings to kill the turret if he surrounds it and holds position with the workers. The lings wont auto target the scvs or the turret if there is something shooting at them.
He would also with a more defensive position have gone up over 70 workers instead of stopping at 65.
Then, after the mutas attack the first time, he will lose some workers, but after that he could set up more turrets, get a 2nd factory, build some widow mines, burrow them in hidden spots between mineral patches and behind radar dish of the CCs, so the mutas cant just A-move into the same mineral line over and over. These are trivial costs compared to the cost of losing half a mineral line and having to pull the other half away for 30 seconds until the mutas leave.
The first attack on the 3rd with mutas + lings killed the turret, 7 workers and forced a pull back to the natural.
Then Oliveria rebuilds the turret late so the 2nd time it isnt even finished and he loses 3 workers, the turret and has to pull back to the natural.
The third attack with lings only, kills 12 workers because no bunker at the 3rd.
Then the mutas come in and kill 3 workers but Oliveira succesfully surrounds the turret and mass repairs it this time.
With the 5th attack the mutas kill the sensor tower which costs 100/100 and is completely exposed.
The 6th attack on the third sees the mutas trade out vs the turret which is being mass repaired, losing 1 muta to kill it. The mutas then kill 8 scvs and a siege tank and proceed to kill the 5th CC.
So Oliveira, by failing to adequately shore up and defend his 3rd, lost 33 workers, lots of mining time, 3 turrets, a sensor tower, a siege tank and a CC. It lost him the game.
Even without accounting for the lost mining time, the cost of the damage Oliveira took on the 3rd base is 450 + 250 + 600 + 150 + 100/100 + 1050/125 for a total of 2600/225. The lost mining time also amounts to several minutes of mining on the whole base due to the worker pulls and the undersaturation resulting from losing workers so thats at least another 1000 minerals lost.
If Oliveira had built a bunker behind the mineral line with 1 or 2 marines in it, he would already have been able to defend against the ling attacks a lot more cost effectively.
He could have literally built up to like 30 turrets and it would have been cheaper than the amount of damage he took to his economy.
Thats excessive of course, but for example 4 turrets per base, would have been perfectly reasonable in this game. Turrets dont cost supply and dont need to be micro'd.
He would have been able to afford them easily because his mining would not be constantly interrupted.
He just didnt build proper defense at any point in the game because in his mind he was allin from 6 minutes to the end of the game and he wasnt able to get out of that mindset like a Maru or Clem or TY would be able to. Oliveira is a good player but he is not that experienced yet making it deep in the highest level tournaments.
time❤
Gg
34:22
74 BANELINGS! "This is the LEAST cost efficient ever"
???????????????
Caster error?
Do you mean MOST? Lol I didn't even watch the rest of the game and know Zerg rolled over Terran.
And no that's not a spoiler...we're watching ZvT.