Nobody will feel that justice has been served. Go to all the countries were this idea has been executed. If failed its objective miserably every time. This is a political tactic to pull your heart strings. You will vote parties that will give you this empty promise and use your trust to satisfy their needs. I know you do not believe me. But do your research.
That is the objective. It addresses your emotions. Fact is that you will never get that feeling that the injustice has been corrected. Ask Zimbabweans! Ask Eastern Europeans! Ask Russians! Yes also in these countries land was taken away and “returned”. This fairytale is exactly that … a fairytale.
Please explain how these injustices will be reconciled. How will 20 year old Busisiwe, who is living in Inanda, be reconciled. Also give us a rundown where she will be in 5, 10, 20 and 50 years after the land reform has been executed to your satisfaction.
@@thomasprogli3372 What I'd propose since I'm not a professional is that, let's say Busiswa is a 20 yr old who's has aspirations of starting a business. She wants a 100 000 loan for example but the banks don't want to give her such a loan because she lives in a shack and doesn't own land as collateral. Banks tend to see blacks as a risk when giving them loans. But they will give you a loan knowing that if you don't repay it, they'll just take your land. If she becomes successful in her business, surely things might turn out better then if she didn't have land to begin with. But this is all hypothetically speaking and again I'm not a Professional in these matters, but what history has shown is that most of the land owned by whites, wasn't at most given to them but was taken.
@@kentclark9616 Who doesn't? What do u mean who doesn't. I think what you mean is how do we redistribute the land equally should be your question. And also those who's land was dispossessed look do your research on the 1913 Land Act and before, during the expansion of of the cape colony maybe you'll know what I'm talking about.
ANC is Captured,they'll never implement the land distribution policy. We need to take matters into our own hands and close down the country for them to act on this matter.
I love this revolutionary position you've taken however the conclusion is misplaced. Yes we need to take matters into our own hands but why should the incumbent government be given the responsibility to be the main agent of that change? They failed to effect change in this matter but we still expect them to miraculously change their position when we've seen plenty of times that they will never expropriate land even with a parliamentary majority. So if we take matters into our own hands, we need to keep it in our own hands.
@@Lungelo_K_Moshoela You don't seem to know much about history or economics but one thing I'll agree on is we need to get rid of the government and central bank. They just been stealing from us all for the past 200 years. Politicians also need to go, they spoke so much kak already to get votes look how confused black people are about land. All seem to think its some magical unicorn that will change the lives of all 60 million South Africans. No idea how or why but this is the narrative.
imagine 1 getting in your yard, forcefully takes your car and when asked why they didn't so, they act like victims n their response is u didn't use your car well
I'm glad the land issue is "back" on the table. Many more of these please. After all, Juge John Hlophe said we must talk about land at least 3 times a day.
...Yes...hey, why not ? And then throw in apartheid, White monopoly capital, settlers, Oppenheimers & Ruperts, Stellenbosch mafia....do you see how regressive your lives are when all you do is hover in neutral (actually reverse!) and then wonder why you're not moving forward. And that's when the blame-searching starts.
There is no issue. Trying to steal someone's property is stealing there's not much more to it really. But you want to talk about it so come on, talk to me.
Honestly speaking the ANC had 65% in parliament after 1994 elections..and an opportunity when the EFF gave them their vote to do this..the comrades were too excited to have their hands in the govt purse..and shares in BEE deals they neglected the work that needed to be done..there should have been an audit of all land ..private and govt and then establish how it came to be in the hands it was or is in..then work done to correct the injustices.. The ANC was bought ..given shares and BEE deals and blinded by the trappings of money..they did get farms for themselves (phala phala..DD Mabuza farm in MP..Terror Lekota's Farm)..and many others not mentioned and unknown.. they were not incentived to do the right thing..but just lined their pockets we all know this..
You are barking up the wrong tree, these influencers are drunk man. Everyone who owns land in South Africa bought it, no one got free land that's a bs narrative spread by Malema to get votes. This smwx guys dad is the chairman of the eff so he spreads the same kak. Don't believe me? I'll give you actual history not made up propaganda.
Sbu Ndebele in PMB, while he was KZN Premier. Thandi Modise in NW! The list goes on and on. Where/why did Tokyo, Ramaphosa, Motsepe, Macozoma, etc suddenly get the mines and BEE shares? Lately, Trevor Manuel, Ramos, Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka sit on the Boards of the BIG Banks, so the story continues. That is why the GNU IS AN OPTION FOR THE CURRENT ANC!!! We, the poor voting majority, no longer matter, as long as they silence us with food parcels, substandard RDP houses, R350 grants, etc.
Look, the deplorable condition of blacks in SA is partly their fault. They appear to insist that Cyril should be their leader. Look at his track record, it speaks for itself.
That is demonstrably wrong and easily falsifiable. According to your logic the countries or people who have the most land are the most powerful. Russia, Canada or Australia are surpassed by many countries. Germany is a fraction of Russia and they would destroy them in a one on one fight. The richest and powerful men like Elon musk own hardly any land.
@joshuabrown5130 that is the problem. You are putting a price on land. Only a price. You can not see the deeper value. The connection to that is more value than money
He is, he has grown so much as a person. Intelligent young man. I don't see his father anymore when I see his face He is his own person. It's definitely a Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh experience 😂
00:02 Land reform in South Africa is a long-standing and contentious issue. 02:43 Land Reform in South Africa revolves around three pillars: restitution, redistribution, and tenure reform. 08:06 Redistribution aims to share land more equally among black South Africans. 10:55 Tenure reform and the difference between restitution and redistribution in South Africa 16:07 Most of South Africa is commercially owned land 18:27 ANC's failure to redistribute land in South Africa due to lack of political will and financial constraints 22:49 Property rights, expropriation, and compensation in South Africa 24:57 Compensation must reflect balance between public interest and affected parties 29:16 Restitution process has not brought back land into the hands of people. 31:26 Challenges in land reform process in South Africa 35:54 Scholars like Ruth Hall provide insights on land reform
Restitution has been settled but slowly. Thts just a lie qnd who cares if the people prefer to have money than the land. Do you think they know how to manage tht land?
We will take our land back by any means necessary. First by peaceful means, but if peaceful means don't find resonance with those who continue to occupy our land and refuse to return it, then will resort to any other means left to us.
So shall we chop up all.the land in South Africa up into 65 million pieces, so that every black person has an equal share?. Just remember it will then be impossible for any farming to take place, so no food production. Places like Checkers and Pick nPay will close, losing millions of jobs.. South Africans will have to rely on international donations of food aid. The economy will collapse, naturally. But everyone will have his equal piece of land, so all good.
@@ashleyadams5207 very childish, warmongering attitude. Basically what you are saying is that you want war.This will destroy this country totally. Is that a mature endgame to strive for?
@@thomasprogli3372 you're angry but saying nothing. You're just mad that he's saying something you hate and for you, that qualifies as being "biased". That's such an illogical way to reason
Dr Sizwe I have seriously been ignorant on this issue, thank you for the education. I have only heard polarizing takes on this issue. I wish everyone can clearly communicate this issue the way you have. You are starting to really win me over here.... :(
Through redistribution, around 25% of farmland in our country is now owned by black South Africans, bringing us closer to achieving our target of 30% by 2030. This figure is based on an update of our work at the Bureau of Economics Research and the department of agricultural economics at Stellenbosch University.28 Mar 2024
In the course of my work, I have travelled extensively in the Eastern & Northern Cape. Farms that were re- distributed have been left fallow. The new owners had insufficient funds to buy farm equipment, seed, etc, & no expertise in large scale farming. Farmers provide the country’s food. Farms left to die put our food source at risk. How is this overcome?
That is false. You are talking about land returned under Restitution. That land is owned by Community Trusts which cause lack of financial and toil (work) investment. Banks do not provide loans to trusts. Thus, substinence farming becames common farming in such land
@@sharonadams9721 because unlike the freeburgers of the Voc and the British they didn’t get 3-12 year tax exemption, seeds and farming implements from the government in the same way our colonisers did, change that and they’ll up their yield and make better use of the land.
@@sharonadams9721 Farming requires finance, usually bank funding. Community trust cannot obtain bank loans. Commercial farmers in SA receive State grants for mechanisation and in-put costs. Community trusts are not commercial farmers. Commonly, one or two dominant trustees obtain long-term leases (unfair to other beneficiaries) who could then be considered farmers in the district and thus aided by the local Department of Agriculture. That is as far as Black people can meanifully participate in commercial farming
QWe vwant the land the white people aere possessing its too much for the minority, they should be ashamed of themselves , the people of the continent are living in squalers.
...well that simply wont do if the aim is to Equalize everybody...u will own nothing but be happy BS..besides the Eaters are after the minerals to hel with citizens..but that said They clearly dont comprehend the international laws ..thats why ramaphoza doesnt push for land besides that would mean the king has to distrubute the Trusts 3mil hectares which is a big monthly income..natrually thats not going to happen..
Y'all just love peddling this lie... Government does not own no more than 20 odd percent of the land. The vast majority of it is in the hands of the whites.
The "Why" question can be answered by what happened in Zimbabwe. The devastating effect the sanctions had on this country still haunt the political elite in South Africa .
They always claim they are doing it for "their" people but in the end they are only doing it for themselves. This issue is also not one of ethnicity. You can see the same thing happening in the Ukraine. Russia is only taking back what was once theirs and Putin will give it back to the Russians. Pinky promise.
This is your problem . If u don’t move away from the system and governance u will never be free. Also you can’t go to heaven without dying. These ppl spilled blood before they got what they wanted. What makes I think you will talk them out of t?
Assalaamu alaykum brother. Shukran for the channel. I've learned so much, and my interest in politics has increased over the last month due to SMWX. May Allah reward and increase you and the team 🙏
Your faithfulness to truth and transparency is in a class of it's own, even when the topic is difficult. I wish more people were this honest. As Maya Angelou says, “History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.” You show this courage with a refreshing yet unimpeachable grace
To us who like before listening to the content 😊 because we know DR Mpofu is going to deliver. My go to place for South African political analysis. Thank you Sizwe, usi Nganga
@@martharadebe9465 what should've happened is more provinces should've had a set up like Ingonyama trust. most of Eastern Cape. big parts of Free State, Limpopo, North-West, Mpumalanga - all these areas were traditional areas for our people if you look at history
Dr you are on fire my brother.If somebody steals your car you must pay him/her to buy gas so that he/she can bring car back to you.ANC ngamasimba wabantu serious.
The problem with land reform and tenure is in the finer detail: Here are some examples: - It is against the interest of the Department of Agriculture to subdivide agricultural land into smaller portions. This means the creation of smaller portions is discouraged and, in their opinion, will have a negative impact on food production and security. The consensus is also that one farmer with more land and resources can farm more effectively than more smaller farmers with the same area of land devided between "smaller" farmers. - If you want to create tenure in rural areas (i.e. agricultural land not near towns) you have to create serviced erven. The servicing of this erven must then be (1) funded and (2) maintained by government. You will often find a dispute between the spheres of government because such municipalities where the reform takes place does not have the financial capacity to formalize, service and maintain erven, and the other spheres do not want to be burdened financially with the maintenance. This will remain an issue even if land could be expropriated without compensation. In short, the problem with land reform is not as one-dimensional as it is made out to be. The challenges relate more to facilitation, not policy. Land use and development lies at an intersection of a variety of interests which are many times at odds with each other and we have not made any headway in this regard.
Have you looked at small farms around SA to confirm like in KwaZulu-Natal, this food security thing is rubbish we have pretty of food, I see food being wasted, shelves are full, The issue is people want to monopolise food and use scare tactics like food scarcity issues to their benefit
@@esscce The issue relating to food security and the subdivision of agricultural land is not my opinion or view, it is the view of the custodians of the Department of Agriculture. I speak from experience.
You answered a question I had about the tenure subject. It does seem like the lowest hanging fruit and a good starting point but if the recipients are given an asset of property without the government providing basic services to that property then it diminishes the value of the transference substantially. It really is a difficult problem to solve.
@@daniestrijdom8248 Farms generally don't have services so I don't see what the problem is. My patch of land and most of those around me are not provided with municipal water or Eskom electricity. Some of the bigger farms have electricity and they pay an arm and a leg just for availability. There is a skip in the local village for waste removal. There are already people living on communal land so giving title deeds makes no difference to service requirements.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ub Excellent - this is great input thanks. It means that there exists a possibility of getting a deed without getting the full-monty of government maintenance. For interest sake, do you farm with bees (capensis is bees right?)
Through redistribution, around 25% of farmland in our country is now owned by black South Africans, bringing us closer to achieving our target of 30% by 2030. This figure is based on an update of our work at the Bureau of Economics Research and the department of agricultural economics at Stellenbosch University.28 Mar 2024
Great one. I think when people think of land redistribution/restitution they think of what happened in Zim ( the violence part). Maybe political parties invested in this need to detail step-by-step how it will happen, in order to dispel concerns and fears.
Hey Fam. Land does need to be restituted and redistributed, for economic access reasons: Land can open up so many opportunities for entrepreneurs and small/medium business owners and for people to fend for themselves, especially the Youth instead of them just chilling at corners. Secondly, land was taken away from people guys, from the Khoi/Khoe-San-Nama, the Bantu/Nguni, and Coloureds, denying this just makes society building in RSA even harder, and really impossible. This will lead to us never being able to be a functional, happy, cohesive, united, and equal nation; therefore our social ailments will never leave us. Don't think short term, about your house, your job, your small business - think about the whole nation
We had a Land Restitution program. I think the figure quoted was that over 90% of recipients chose money over land. Possibly many of them used that money to buy urban properties or farm land in other ares. We just don't know. However , the reality is that most people , black and white , don't want to farm. That is not to say that I don't think there should be any further restitution or redistribution. It's just not close to our biggest priorities at the moment. I do think that the issue of communal farming should be looked at. In today's world it is horribly unproductive. Those farming communally on State land should be given the option to get Title Deeds for a portion of that land. This doesn't cost the country much but the beneficiaries benefit enormously. For the record , while black people bore the brunt of forced removals , Indians and whites were also removed from some areas. Particularly in the Transkei region white farmers had to give way to black farmers so that the region could become independent.
@@TickleMeChelmnoThe colonialists are always trying to give example of Zimbabwe to scare black South Africans from land restitution. Zimbabwe suffered because of neocolonialism. It was used as an example why whites cannot be held accountable for any wrongs committed during colonialism. Zimbabwe is today free from white supremacy today and that is their freedom. If white South African are really interested in the so called rainbow nation, then they should by all means try to fix the unjust laws of land dispossession of the past. However we all know the dual citizenship the majority of the whites possess which allows them to not really care about the welfare of their fellow black citizens.
Nothing stopped any of your forefathers to be the heroes you so wish that the Mandela's would've been! Fact is thee baton has been passed wena wenzani? What's stopping you from being the hero???
@@Kalushi-w4t nothing is stopping them. south africans have become comfortable being ruled by their whites adjacency, they are now voting for the white DA...
I have a problem with compensation because,when our land was stolen,our forefathers were not compensated. Julius Malema once used a very simple example. He said,if someone steals your car and makes improvements on it and,it is found,the person who stole your car cannot demand compensation for, installing a powerful sound system,mags etc because he has committed a crime by stealing your car. I agree 💯% with what he said. Until such time that the illegal occupiers of our land can prove that our forefathers were compensated,this demand which is also enshrined in our constitution is ridiculous. It should have never,ever been agreed to.
If I buy a car legally , it has to go through police clearance , roadworthy etc. Afterwards , I have to pay annual licensing fees (i.e. tax) . The State has thus legitimised my ownership. If you want to claim it back , then the State needs to compensate me for expenses incurred.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ubexcept that the car you got was acquired by force of arms or through discriminatory laws enacted by the former institutional racist regime. You’re not being victimised you’re simply playing victim
@@wangatshivhase8381 Yes, the land was forcibly taken from the Khoi San by the black tribes. the white tribes then took it from the black tribes so all the land should go back to the Khoi San. So if you want to go back to the root , all of Southern Africa should be returned to the Khoi San.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ub cop out argument. The Khoi don’t think so, at least those representing them in parliament who will tell you that we drifted and are apart of them in that we share a common struggle of dispossession and interference by Europeans and we share a common enemy. Nice try thou
I thought about this a lot. I think restitution can be solved the following way; (Ignoring all the land in governments/trust's hands) 1) Incentevise farmers to give a portion of their land in exchange for tax breaks. Land will be reserved for farm workers, agricultural students, and those who can't prove that they were disposessed and want to work the land. This will prevent the politcally connected to highjack it like with BEE. 2) Land can't be sold for 20 years (this will prevent people from claiming land and just selling it back for a quick buck, preventing generational wealth/ownership). 3) Government to subsidize startup farms in exchange for cheaper prices to sell goods locally (this will bring down food costs for all). 4) Hire existing farmers to train new land owners and pay them mostly in commission, this will prevent box ticking exercises and make sure farmers do everything for new land owners to succeed. 5) Open up cannabis legislation and reserve licenses for small and medium farmers to prevent corporate monopoly. 6) Title deeds NB NB NB! This is how I think you can do it without creating food insecurity or social instability.
Government already subsidizes farms but they dint have a high success rate because the subsidies are either not enough or the people working the land have no knowledge on how to
An article by the Bureau for Economic Research in September 2023 stated that 19 million hectares of commercial farmland , 24.7% of all freehold agricultural land, have been transferred away from white ownership, so don't come with falsified statistics.
If most of the land belongs to Government, Commercial, and Agriculture, its obvious why the ANC doesnt act decisively. They have majority stakes in the first two, and you simply cant mess with agriculture when the very fabric of societal South Africa depends on it to eat and work.
In Zambia the land issue was dealt with decisively by the founding father Kenneth Kaunda and the UNIP govt. Apart from traditional land , all the land belongs to the state and is vested in the President. Land is leased to the holder for 99 years. Zambia avoided the nonsense in Zimbabwe. Seems South Africa wants to take the Zimbabwe route.Many white Zimbabwean commercial farmers moved to Zambia and have set up farms in the fertile Mkushi farming block.
Remember the land in Zambia was not contested. Southern Rhodesia was the Jewel that is why there was UDI and war to take back the land independence. Zambia did not have to fight for it. Thought I should highlight the differences and the claims of whites to the land.
No John Nchansa, South Africans want a South African solution. Looking in hindsight is what enables Zambia to say their execution was better. At the time of taking the decision it was not clear if the decision would prosper. What is annoying us South Africans is that government is not implementing decisions that we agreed to. First, we need to identify those who must be recompensated. Verify if they can farm or if they are willing to sell to the government with the understanding that their future generations will not reclaim the land. Second, identify those who want to farm but never owned land, get them to sign the 99year lease, land belongs to the state. Thirdly then deal with those who just want a piece of land for residential purposes. We are not idiotic just lazy or too afraid to implement the decision. This a management issue mainly performance which can be addressed through performance agreements.
@@ivanmark9525 Not only that late President Mwanawasa invited the displaced white farmers to come to Zambia much to the annoyance of Robert Mugabe. Tobacco crop production in Zambia tripled in 1 year.
This is an important conversation to have I saw the caption to today's episode and it really compelled me to want to watch. I didn't choose to live and grow up in the Township. Townships were created during the Apartheid era, forcibly segregating Black South Africans into these areas, areas with poor living conditions, and limited access to basic services such as healthcare, education, and water. We should never stop emphasising the importance of Land, we are where we are today as a Nation because of Land being forcefully taken from us, Our grandfathers went from owning land to working in gardens and farms for the White men, cruel dispossession and stealing yho!
Have you heard of War? People fight, some people lost. Whether or not I benefit from some great grandfather who won a war has nothing to do with you or I. It’s just the hand we were dealt, the only way forward is moving forward. You can’t take stuff away from me because of something my great great grandfather may or may not have done
@@kentclark9616 you are misinformed and very wrong, the conversation here is the 1913 Land Act which was to dispossess Africans of their land, following that the 1950 Groups Areas Act which was enacted by the Apartheid government to racially segregate us Clark, hence I say I never chose to grow up in the Townships I was put there! You and your forefathers directly benefited from the Acts of thievery, you were given resources and platforms to advance yourselves and your posterity. Currently, Africans own very little to NO LAND at all, compared to the White minority who own 90% of the land. Moving forward is admitting the wrongs done being sensitive to the real consequences and challenges my people face daily and help rewrite the wrongs of your forefathers by paying reparations! Stop being defensive and ignorant. If you continue to be that way then it will be war, but if you are a true and honest human being we will work together as a nation and move forward.
In 1948 when Apartheid started many Black people were already living in townships. More than 30 000 Black people were put in concentration camps during the Anglo Boer War. After the war has ended in 1902, many of these Black camps were not dissolved and they just evolved into becoming townships. So, the British actually created the majority of the big townships and not the NP.
@@ChrisTus83 in 1913 what happened, since you know your history? In 1950 what did the Boer government implement? I think Chris we can both agree that Africans have been done wrong in their own Land.
@@kentclark9616this is idiotic and I really hope no funds were used in an attempt to give you education.The theft of land by Europeans was not an act of nature but a deliberate act by colonisers to deprive black people of their land in order to turn them into paupers that will be reduced to labourers for Europeans.This can and should be undone for justice to occur in order for South Africa to move forward.
Excepting fairness from these pll is like waiting for a dog to fly . All I’ve the globe they are the same so when I see pll smiling with them I just shake my head
When will you get it into your thick skulls that us white Citizens did not steal land from anyone. We bought our property and pay taxes on that. Nothing is Mahala, and nor are we land thieves. You will have to did up the dead for your land. 😂😂
Thanks for this. Looking forward to watching. I think Tembeka Ngcukaitobi also did a video a few years breaking down the concepts and explaining the causes for the lack of progress.
The government PLAS has failed. Black emerging farmers were leased state land at very high rates, with little financial and extension service support. Without long term lease or tittle deeds ,farmers could not access funding, and lots of farmers are now in debt to the state and are threatened with evections. Most have spent more than 10 years on the land, most of them have no chance of being employed because of age, others are over 60 years of age. The state must look into this group of farmers amongst the important land issues.
Sizwe, please can we have a conversation on what having the Land, the day after means... These farms were largely subsidised by the Apartheid state, these private patches of land and owners are in massive debt... Can we begin to have real dreams informed by what these farms are and can be beyond dispossession. How does reclamation look like and its pitfalls, so we succeed.
It is true that 70% of our land is agricultural land, but agriculture literally accounts for 2.5% of our GDP. Which is why 68% of South Africa live in urban areas, because we all know there is no real economic prospects in rural areas. I really think if what we want is economic prosperity for black people what is going to be key is lowering unemployment and giving black people in urban areas access to opportunities, opportunities. Focusing on something that only contributes 2.5% to our GDP and concluding that it is key to poverty in this country is strange.
SUMMARY The three concepts of land reform Restitution Get something back that belongs to you. Dispossession of land through war and law. You can get that land back to 1913. Analogy cup. Redistribution Not everyone can prove but in general indiginous lost land. Therefore let’s share land more equally. Analogy: divide up the garden Tenure reform Already working farms regardless of piece of paper. Eg state. Rights to land already on. Conclusion Some combination Current failures since 1994 72% not owned by black SA 2/3 of land mass is grams and stuff
Dr Sizwe and the rest of the SMWX fam, many who oppose land expropriation often cite the importance of land to be productive in order to ensure food security. Zimbabwe is often used as an example of how land expropriation can derail a country's economy. How do we as South Africa ensure that that does not happen?
The difference between SA and `Zim is that the land in Zim was given to ZANU-PF soldiers and loyalists. Zim did not have a healthy crop individuals who are trained in agriculture. SA does have the individuals that we have trained to do so. The only challenge will be, will the government give them the access and resources to accelerate the productivity?
But you haven't even listened to the content. The video is 5 minutes old and your comment is two minutes old, yet the video is 37 minutes long! But I am second to comment😂
@@0761ZoROI've been listening to Sizwe since the beginning. I know the content will always be good. Here's my counter question: what were you doing in the comments of a 37 minute video while it was only 2 minutes old? 🤔
Thanks for the insights, Sizwe. I have gained a lot of knowledge through this episode. I have read "The Land is Ours" by Advocate Tembeka Ngcukaitobi and still need to get "Land Matters." I think it would be great to have Advocate Ngcukaitobi as your guest one day to dive deeper into these insights.
Bakcanize SA so that this land question can be solved. There are not only black and white people in SA there are also Indian and coloured people in South Africa. Then there are land that was legally bought and paid for during the 1800s what will happen to that land? Between 1652 and 1910 huge parts of SA were simply unpopulated there were nobody there and it never belong to anybody. Also remember in 1652 there were not a country called South Africa. So those who start developing it should also have a say on who owns the land and who not. I sometimes wonder is this about getting hold of well developed farms that are benefitting many South Africans in terms of jobs and foreign currency, or is it about getting land for some or other political reason.
You sound ridiculous if you steal land then build on that stolen land you should have a say, that's like if I hijack your car then put some rims and sound system on it and at some point, you want it back I should have a say on which parts you should have or I should get paid for you to get it back even thou I stole it.
Only in Africa where people ask for land that was taken unjustly under a lawless system to be recognised by the laws and government of the day. When 80% of the land of the country is agricultural land, and 70% of that land belongs to a few powerful families that got the land through no legal means and gave themselves everlasting contracts, then the problem is right before your eyes. It's an economy that will never serve its people, only a few rich families and if you cannot grasp this then that's on you.
@@SpotonwithTP-qz6wq "You sound ridiculous if you steal land" Who stole land from who, that is what I want to know bring me the owner who lost land in 1780 or in 1910 then I can believe you.
Many neighborhoods around the world are similar. If Blacks have the opportunity to access land they too can build better lives. Many of these neighborhoods are aged and some have already moved to a better life.
@@Luba_Dyasi Yes I am you need to build from scratch. Why do you want a farm that's already developed ? Why do you just want things to be the easy way. Every farm you see was developed by white people and it was hard work and millions of Rands. You need to go take land in Zululand or EC.
The problem is not just that not everyone has land, but mainly that a big chunk of it is in the hands of white people disproportionately. In Africa, this is a ridiculous statistic.
Why is nobody trying this in the USA or Australia or in Europe, where the current owners of land are not the "original inhabitants"? If all land in SA is taken without compensation from all whites and distributed amongst black SAs - who will get what and how will it work? What happened to all the farms in SA which were "redistributed"? What about the 72% of KZN owned by the Zulu king?
We want all of it back. What USA and Astralia do is entirely up to them, we are not them and they are not us, each situation is different and unique and must treated as such.
@@ashleyadams5207 so what land would you like back and what do you plan to do with it? If all the land is taken back, what do you think you will get and what will the original owners (ie the Khoi) get?
@@chriscoetzer this concocted nonexistent divide and conquer Koi San narrative is beginning to lose its flavour already. Unless the Khoi San are not African like the rest of us, they shouldn't have a problem with Africans reclaiming they're land back, and if they're not Africans, then the Khoi San can claim no land on African soil and neither can you.
@@user-hm4qn7wt3t so it is ok for others to address you as a word that begins with the letter, that comes after j? Are you the only people who can find certain terms offensive?. What makes you special?
@@dianathompson8794 you can't possibly be that stupid to equate those two.Like really woman you being a European can be equal to black people being dehumanised by the k word.Given your thinking, I bet you also think that there is a genocide of colonial settlers in South Africa.
Zimbabwe poverty is a result of illegal sanctions. Many countries are sanctioned Cuba, Iran, Eritrea. They can't develop because they have been excuded from world economic systems. The good thing with those countries is their country belongs to them, South Africans are poor and land less. It's better to be poor and free than a well fed slave.
Zimbabwe was an example for countries of SADC to be fearful and not reclaim their land. People don't understand the full story of Zimbabwe, only what the media tells them
We should breakdown the land question per province. A province such as KZN does not have the same quality land as that of the NC. In KZN 73% of all land is owned by Government or Tribes. The Northern Cape is a huge province, but few people want to live there because of the lack of resources there, water, fertile soil and so forth. IMO it is disingenuous to talk about the land issue and not talking about what people actually want out of it. Do they want the land to be split up equally across the country. The same size land 2 people getting the same size land one in NC and another in KZN. Start with what we want, then we can discuss how to get it.
I would love this topic to be unpacked more in a panel discussion where at least 75% of the time is spent on discussing practical options for the future. Especially if we can show which of these practical options have been tried, how they worked, and how we can improve on them. This is a very complex issue, so I hope the complexity can be engaged and done so in a very practical matter. We are not too stupid to not engage the complexity. Just imporant that the panel takes us on a practical journey as an audience.
I would like proof that all these people who claim their ancestors land was stolen is actually true. You cant just demand land. Maybe need to go back and do some research
I believe that the commercial agricultural land should be given to those who work it or have the "willingness, know-how and ability to work it". The majority of the population need is decent housing, food security, a functioning country without corruption, no crime, strong education system, economic growth that creates jobs and decent quality of living .
Ownership of land is a means to the economic emancipation . I believe the rightful owners should get their land back and serious commercial farmers can lease the land for production purposes and everyone is in a win win situation . This ensures that generation to generation of the black child is taken care of , this is what the bible says leaving an inheritance for your children's children .
@finekumuka8379 Basically your strategy admits that whoever is going to "get the land back" is not going to do anything with it other then wait for someone to come and lease it. There is no intention of working the land. I'm sure the African continent is full of examples of how this kind strategy ends up looking like!
@@MJG1017 Not necessarily so , right now as a capable black person to venture into farming is a challenge because not many have the capital resource to buy or lease the land. This can be addressed if the government is the owner of the land and then leases to all capable persons at reasonable rates since they will make more money from taxing the produce. Current set up benefits those who stole the land .
@finekumuka8379 So the government should give the land back to the black population so that the black population can seat on it, hope, pray and wait for the "thiefs" white man can comeback and lease it from the blacks, so that the blacks can make some money and build the generational wealth!!! Just look around in the African continent, my friend, we already have the consequences and end results of that strategy!!!
The South African government is the largest landowner in the country. It makes no sense to take agricultural land. Start up proper mentorship programmes with farmers and provide rewards like shareholding IF the employees remain at the farm. Clawback share options if they leave. Like any business.
I'd like to paint a quick scenario for everyone here, so that we can look at this from a different angle: Choose a country other than South Africa. Literally any other country in the world, on any continent, whether it be Europe, Asia, America or the Middle East. Now picture a citizen of such a country walking into his local government office, and having the following conversation with the government official on duty: Citizen: "I'd like to apply for some free land, please." Official: "Excuse me?" Citizen: "Free land. I want to apply for it." Official: "I'm sorry sir, but we don't give out free land. If you would like to purchase some land, then you must pay for it like everybody else." Citizen: "This is oppression! I am being oppressed by the state! My ancestors lived here hundreds of years ago, and I demand to be reimbursed for the suffering that they went through!" Official: "Security, please!" The End
I think you are taking it in the wrong way. Put it this way. groups of african thugs to germany, Romania Netherlands or any European country, the Netherland etc. They bring with them guns, and apparently the europeans who are the natives probably have spears and wooden sticks for fighting. The Africans, because they are heavily armed with guns, start grabbing the land, moving the Europeans other areas, displacing them, disturbing the family unit, they even steal the cattle etc and start farming. Years later, the Europeans or what ever, their children see that there was injustice and they want their land back, but the MINORITY THUGGERY GREEDY AND RASCIST africans are still fighting them off.......keep on imagining. AFTER HEARING SIZWE, I BELIEVE THE EFF AND MKP IS RIGHT. THEY MUST CLAIM THEIR LAND BACK WITHOUT COMPENSATION.!!!
It would be good to look at th statistics Sizwe. I'd also be interested to know how much private land is unused and how much land is belonging to tribal trusts. This is certainly a political hot patato, but much of unused tribal land is in some of the most fertile high rainful and moderate temperate regions.
Unfortunately many in this country have a handsout approach to life. Free education, free housing, free grants to bring up your children, free electricity , free healthcare and free land. Thing is, life is never free ...someone somewhere has to pay.
@@dianathompson8794Europeans did by killing and stealing the land.Study history and you will realise that from Asia, Americas, Australia and Africa, wherever the European lands,they destroy the lives of the indigenous and cause a huge damage on the environment.South Africa is no different and people must wake up accept this fact if they want change.
@@dianathompson8794Europeans did by killing and stealing the land.Study history and you will realise that from Asia, Americas, Australia and Africa, wherever the European lands,they destroy the lives of the indigenous and cause a huge damage on the environment.South Africa is no different and people must wake up accept this fact if they want change.
Maybe an explanation of what land you are talking about would help? Only around 11% of the entire South African land mass is arable land. The rest is only suitable for grazing, wildlife or habitation. The arable land should be prioritised for large scale crop production, to ensure country food security. In the past 15 years, or so, we have gone from having around 11% of land under active agriculture to having only around 9% being farmed. That must be reversed as a matter of priority. Government owned farms (and there are a LOT of them) need to be productive and community owned farms need to have mentorship so they don't just degenerate into a nothing burger that benefits neither the owners or the country.
This is my problem with this land discussion is black people are told half truths. Agriculture only contributes 2.5% of our GDP. It is not going to be the magical bullet to economic prosperity, because only 11% of it as you’ve said it useful for farming.
@@tashansofwa2426 I think land has become the metaphorical 'black cat'. Everyone is talking at cross purposes. I can get why people want a patch of land that belongs to them but very few people even want a farm. Most just want enough land to have a modest home and enough garden for the kids to kick a football around.
@@RSAMommacyndi i also think in this conversation people conveniently forget the minority status of white people. In that they seem to forget that what made 3 million people rich is not going to make 58 million people rich. The apartheid government succeeded in creating wealth for a minority of people and what it’s going to take to create wealth for a majority of people is not going to be the same thing.
It seems that many people don't know that white people are African too... We are all human beings and we actually all share the same ancestors... Our race is the human race...
Wow...how Convenient..we know that and we accept it..but realistically..you are here by Occupation..now when it suits you just because you have SA ID?...have you forgotten how your Fore Fathers scrambled and forcefully occupied this country?...and no no..your have your own Ancestry who as I said above.. occupied this Land illegally so...your Ancestors died peacefully in their Old Age.. whilst my Ancestors were preMaturely eliminated and killed Mercilessly in their middle Age..by your Ancestors...thus don't tell us we share Ancestry...we Accept that you're my fellow Citizen..but when are you going to Accept my Generational plight that was Man-made ..and just Redistribute your ill gotten Wealth without any lame Argument 😢??
@@eddiekhanyile4588 Black people are in Southern Africa by occupation. Does it make any difference if you sailed here or walked here ? Are there special rules which make it ok for one lot of people to occupy land but not others ?
@@eddiekhanyile4588 How many deaths did Shaka cause ? Do you know why black people now live longer in Africa than ever before ? White people brought medicines which reduced deaths from malaria, teste fly , cholera and many other diseases. White people , while also complicit in the slave trade for a short while ( the arabs did it for centuries) stopped worldwide slavery. It's not an accident that Africa experienced a population explosion after the arrival of white people. So while white people did causes deaths , they saved a lot more.
Looking over CPT makes me sad, i live in the same area the apartheid govnt placed my grandparents in on the cape flats...they actually come from sea point.
Through redistribution, around 25% of farmland in our country is now owned by black South Africans, bringing us closer to achieving our target of 30% by 2030. This figure is based on an update of our work at the Bureau of Economics Research and the department of agricultural economics at Stellenbosch University.28 Mar 2024
Im from a Town Planning profession and this was literally my class lecture, excellently presented. Thanks Hlubi for explaining this important matter to the masses. Then people can link all this information to politics, one can clearly see and understand the Values of the political parties in SA, eg, The MK wants to amend the constitution to address such matters, because it understand that the majority are land less from history, another eg, is the DA, their value is in capitalism and privatization, they avoid the issue of land at all costs because they know that white minority owns most land, economic activity on the land and they want to protect the interest of minority. Land is not the agenda of the DA
I have numerous examples of land that was provided to the disadvantaged. The farmer sold the land to the government for R100k. They give the land to the disadvantaged individual. Not even 3 months later, the receiver of the new land sells it back to the original farmer for R50k. Most people receiving land have no idea how to farm. Farmers feed the nation. Truth be told, people don’t want land, they want the money.
That's something they don't like to talk about , or the fact that all of southern Africa was originally inhabited by the Khoi San. I suspect that the Swazis would like a big chunk of SA back that was stolen from them by the zulu's.
@@dianathompson8794 So you didn't get that in that 40minutes that explains the difference in land claims, news flash families have been on court for years ,go back and listen to the video.
impressed by the quality of these discussions, considering the amount of relevant content being put out. the last conversation with uGogo wow 👏🏾 i think the timing of this episode is perfect because so many things get muddied up and sensationalized on social media and false narratives are pushed to us
This is a very serious issue that needs to be resolved soon. I feel all relevant agencies, organizations and political parties need to come together, sit in a room and come up with a workable solution. Which needs to be publicly aired, so the people are always up to date on what is happening and can see all the different points that come across. Its complicated issue that needs resolvement. I just pray that their isn't an over correction, as to what happened in Zimbabwe. There needs to be a fair compromise from all sides.
I believe this issue is a red herring that will not solve the issues it allegedly addresses. The black poor will still be poor and still have no land because they will either never get it or lose it very quickly. The reason being that getting land, does not mean you know how to keep land. Just because the Xhosa had land does not mean the Zulus were not taking this land away from them.
There are gatekeepers in the world's economy and those gatekeepers don't take kindly to their own losing land that was acquired through violence & conquer. That's why some countries spend trillions on military power whilst some spend peanuts. Those guys understand the power of land in building powerful states and you wonder they still cannot let Africa control its own economy. Through land, comes power and the big hegemonies like America & The West understand this perfectly.
I wonder where the conversation on land begins and the conversation on capital ends. Addressing spatial apartheid through redistribution is key, but I think there is an assumption that redistribution of land will transform capital relations. Only if redistribution follows a democratic and transparent process will we see any kind of real equity being realised, otherwise we risk reproducing the same exploitative inequality that exists today. The face of the elite may be different, but the goals of that elite will be the same.
A well articulated analysis of the land question. Part of this question is also understanding the Agrarian question, both these questions must not be understood unilaterally.
Hypothetical question here if someone bought a house in 2019 and have title deeds and have a bank loan to pay for the property does this mean they still stole the land if they are white,coloured,Indian even though a person has proof of house purchase and if this is the case why has the government allowed the sale to go through. Someone enlighten me.
During apartheid land was stolen by Europeans no different from land that was stolen in Kenya by the British or Zim and Namibia. You ppl really have no conscience.
You explained it so well. That is the reason why EFF and MKA are so passionate about redisrtibution of land. Its scary how a certain race can just come into someones country and grab land and make it their own. Highest calibre of thievery and greediness. LAND REFORM IS A MUST.
This has been quite an informative view Dr. Thank you. On this complex topic I think the main dominant schools of thought are Restorative school and Reformative school. The restorative school is often quite emotive and divisive, and therefore loved by politicians. The idea of being able to reset seems to have so much appeal to human beings. But even proponents of this school change their minds when you say it sounds like all land should belong to the Khoi and the San if we truly believe in restoration. Even if current land was distributed equitably (still not sure what that means: is it like 1 hactare each?), a generation from now the distribution may still prove to be suboptimal as land use changes. I am fan of Reformative school of thought, which is based on the believe that land is a limited resource we share with current and future generations, and that it's use may change over time. This school requires that there is a minimum 40 year land use plan, revised every 20 years. Based on this plan we can designate different land parcels for residential use, commercial use, conservation etc. It is this plan that should inform how we ensure that distribution is fair. Where land needs to be expropriated, it should be at cost i.e. the value of land should be on use and not on mere ownership of land over time.
@janmogwana5930 interesting observation bra Jan but what is Citizans position on those who lost land as a consequence of conquest or discriminatory policies that were enacted that can show you where they were dispossessed? Is it not in harmony with justice and fairness to ensure they’re given back that which was dispossessed from them ? How does citizans see this dilemma because there is no shortage of such people all across South Africa both Khoi and Bantu* people? Love the work you guys are doing by the way! sending blessings and revolutionary energy you way 👍🏽
Last one bra Jan, in cases where they were dispossessed without compensation which happened to a lot of people, would it not be an injustice on top of a injustice to buy back that which was forcefully taken from you with no compensation and thus being restricted to small and not-arable areas of land also known as bantustans and homelands ? What is Citizans position on such cases ?
Well taught Dr Sizwe. Good work. Thank you. Land gives African identity and land reform can drive development culturally and economically.. Our society will be better after good Godly reform.
Isn't the main reason that 92% of people have chosen money over land is that they really don't want land but rather just a descent life, and not a patch of farmland to do what with? We need jobs and inclusivity, not land reform. Or am I wrong about this?
After thirty plus years of the end of apartheid. After thirty plus years of the government being held by the ANC, it’s absolutely unacceptable that so many of the indigenous population lives in such harsh and desperate situations. The question becomes, why is this still the situation. From there we’re left with the need to draw our own conclusions. One conclusion: apartheid ended and the few (to include the black indigenous African) in control ensured that they and their people benefited, instead of making sure there was a sincere move forward that benefited the masses of the indigenous population. Second conclusion: apartheid ended and the few didn’t make the most important issue of land redistribution a priority. Third conclusion: Maybe the few in control were afraid to do what had to be done and instead went with the same ole way to keep the peace. Fourth conclusion: Those who were the leaders in government (the indigenous Black African), didn’t know how to navigate legal paths to ensure fair and equitable redistribution of land that gave their own indigenous population a foundation to build upon. In all actuality and metaphorically speaking. Every leader both of the past and the current should feel a sense of shame for allowing such a destitute situation to exist and to exist for so long.
Doc This episode is truly magical! Yes, the two books of Tembeka Ngcukaitobi - for me - was just beautiful. He is just such an archive junkie. I am sure you will love the work of Patrick Tariq Mellet - The Lie of 1652. The work that you do on this platform is just BEAUTIFUL! It brings back such wonderful memories of how Euby use to rave about you. Thank you for referring to him as "The Late GREAT Eusebius McKaiser" - you are kind to do so...
You are right Sir, The land issue must be dealt with. Now is the time to do it. Your explanation is clear. Do we have the tools to deal with it? As a black person I am very much hurting.
It'll never be resolved Never anywhere globally has it been resolved and SA is no exception. History sucks sometimes but we can't change it. Is this channel aimed at a particular audience?
Hot Take 🔥: Maybe we should start abolishing the idea of private property. Even if we redistribute fairly, it's only a matter of time before the land is concentrated in the hands of the few once again. Only this time, it might not be along racial lines.
😢Thank you, Dr. Mpofu this is very informative and important. Can you invite government on land reform department. And lastly, DR JJ needs to come back asap for an interview post election. Sibonge
I hear you, but I want to ask either you or the comment section a serious question. I want to preface my question by saying I have no skin in this game. I can’t afford land. I don’t own a house or anything. So my question is: What happens if I go to the bank and get a loan to buy a farm/property today. I did not own it before today. Tomorrow, the government says it should be given to a dispossessed individual. What is the process here? Since I only owned it for one day. Can it be said that I stole it? What happens to my loan? Should I still pay it even though I no longer own the land. Ok, so there are actually several questions! 😂 I’m really asking because I’m curious. Please don’t read this as an attack.
Hi Dr Mpofu-Walsh my family owns land in Oskraal and they have the documents to prove it,however the process has been frustrated by the government because it has minerals. There was even someone assassinated a couple of years ago for pursuing the restitution. It’s unfortunate to see our parents unable to enjoy the fruits of their grandfather’s land and we don’t know who to seek guidance from anymore
Dr SMW and team, thank you so much, the work you do is important and so appreciated. Just wanted to express my deep and heartfelt gratitude for the dedicated work you do day after day. It is Eye opening, educational, informative, intellectually stimulating and/or thought provoking . Love how you impart information and dissect the issues. Your platform is exceptional. Keep up the great work…
Each episode of yours has its own emotions but this
one got me really emotional because land is justice in its entirety.
Feeling robbed 😢
Nobody will feel that justice has been served. Go to all the countries were this idea has been executed. If failed its objective miserably every time.
This is a political tactic to pull your heart strings. You will vote parties that will give you this empty promise and use your trust to satisfy their needs.
I know you do not believe me. But do your research.
That is the objective. It addresses your emotions. Fact is that you will never get that feeling that the injustice has been corrected. Ask Zimbabweans! Ask Eastern Europeans! Ask Russians! Yes also in these countries land was taken away and “returned”. This fairytale is exactly that … a fairytale.
@@makhadziparousiaphusewa1367 You can't get robbed of something you never owned. Don't stress man this guy spreads his dads EFF lies.
@@thomasprogli3372 👏🏿
No new government that comes to power will last, as injustices of the past need to be reconciled in order for SA to truly move forward.
Please explain how these injustices will be reconciled. How will 20 year old Busisiwe, who is living in Inanda, be reconciled. Also give us a rundown where she will be in 5, 10, 20 and 50 years after the land reform has been executed to your satisfaction.
I’d love to see this explaination?? Explain who gets land and who doesn’t?
@@thomasprogli3372 What I'd propose since I'm not a professional is that, let's say Busiswa is a 20 yr old who's has aspirations of starting a business. She wants a 100 000 loan for example but the banks don't want to give her such a loan because she lives in a shack and doesn't own land as collateral. Banks tend to see blacks as a risk when giving them loans. But they will give you a loan knowing that if you don't repay it, they'll just take your land. If she becomes successful in her business, surely things might turn out better then if she didn't have land to begin with. But this is all hypothetically speaking and again I'm not a Professional in these matters, but what history has shown is that most of the land owned by whites, wasn't at most given to them but was taken.
@@kentclark9616 Who doesn't? What do u mean who doesn't. I think what you mean is how do we redistribute the land equally should be your question. And also those who's land was dispossessed look do your research on the 1913 Land Act and before, during the expansion of of the cape colony maybe you'll know what I'm talking about.
@@ayakhasokabo8816 so no explaination of how to do this?
ANC is Captured,they'll never implement the land distribution policy. We need to take matters into our own hands and close down the country for them to act on this matter.
I love this revolutionary position you've taken however the conclusion is misplaced. Yes we need to take matters into our own hands but why should the incumbent government be given the responsibility to be the main agent of that change? They failed to effect change in this matter but we still expect them to miraculously change their position when we've seen plenty of times that they will never expropriate land even with a parliamentary majority. So if we take matters into our own hands, we need to keep it in our own hands.
@@Lungelo_K_Moshoela You don't seem to know much about history or economics but one thing I'll agree on is we need to get rid of the government and central bank. They just been stealing from us all for the past 200 years. Politicians also need to go, they spoke so much kak already to get votes look how confused black people are about land. All seem to think its some magical unicorn that will change the lives of all 60 million South Africans. No idea how or why but this is the narrative.
imagine 1 getting in your yard, forcefully takes your car and when asked why they didn't so, they act like victims n their response is u didn't use your car well
I'm glad the land issue is "back" on the table. Many more of these please. After all, Juge John Hlophe said we must talk about land at least 3 times a day.
...Yes...hey, why not ? And then throw in apartheid, White monopoly capital, settlers, Oppenheimers & Ruperts, Stellenbosch mafia....do you see how regressive your lives are when all you do is hover in neutral (actually reverse!) and then wonder why you're not moving forward. And that's when the blame-searching starts.
He's impeached and crooked! Why you listening to the corrupt?
There is no issue. Trying to steal someone's property is stealing there's not much more to it really. But you want to talk about it so come on, talk to me.
Honestly speaking the ANC had 65% in parliament after 1994 elections..and an opportunity when the EFF gave them their vote to do this..the comrades were too excited to have their hands in the govt purse..and shares in BEE deals they neglected the work that needed to be done..there should have been an audit of all land ..private and govt and then establish how it came to be in the hands it was or is in..then work done to correct the injustices..
The ANC was bought ..given shares and BEE deals and blinded by the trappings of money..they did get farms for themselves (phala phala..DD Mabuza farm in MP..Terror Lekota's Farm)..and many others not mentioned and unknown.. they were not incentived to do the right thing..but just lined their pockets we all know this..
You are barking up the wrong tree, these influencers are drunk man. Everyone who owns land in South Africa bought it, no one got free land that's a bs narrative spread by Malema to get votes. This smwx guys dad is the chairman of the eff so he spreads the same kak. Don't believe me? I'll give you actual history not made up propaganda.
Sbu Ndebele in PMB, while he was KZN Premier. Thandi Modise in NW! The list goes on and on. Where/why did Tokyo, Ramaphosa, Motsepe, Macozoma, etc suddenly get the mines and BEE shares? Lately, Trevor Manuel, Ramos, Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka sit on the Boards of the BIG Banks, so the story continues. That is why the GNU IS AN OPTION FOR THE CURRENT ANC!!! We, the poor voting majority, no longer matter, as long as they silence us with food parcels, substandard RDP houses, R350 grants, etc.
Look, the deplorable condition of blacks in SA is partly their fault. They appear to insist that Cyril should be their leader. Look at his track record, it speaks for itself.
Land as always being the source of power , without land, you have no power or humanity. Without land, your culture and your dignity is inquestion.
88% of whites don't own land
That is demonstrably wrong and easily falsifiable. According to your logic the countries or people who have the most land are the most powerful. Russia, Canada or Australia are surpassed by many countries. Germany is a fraction of Russia and they would destroy them in a one on one fight. The richest and powerful men like Elon musk own hardly any land.
Explain this to me please. Land with nothing on it in the middle of nowhere is very cheap, so what is problem?
@@joshuabrown5130 I find it very interesting that my comments are not showing here.
@joshuabrown5130 that is the problem. You are putting a price on land. Only a price. You can not see the deeper value. The connection to that is more value than money
Chef, Dr Mpofu Walsh is cooking lately.
A Y E Y E!
He is, he has grown so much as a person. Intelligent young man. I don't see his father anymore when I see his face He is his own person. It's definitely a Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh experience 😂
Cooking up lies and racism... following in his dads footsteps spreading hate in SA
Don't forget to eat it with a pinch of salt neh.
00:02 Land reform in South Africa is a long-standing and contentious issue.
02:43 Land Reform in South Africa revolves around three pillars: restitution, redistribution, and tenure reform.
08:06 Redistribution aims to share land more equally among black South Africans.
10:55 Tenure reform and the difference between restitution and redistribution in South Africa
16:07 Most of South Africa is commercially owned land
18:27 ANC's failure to redistribute land in South Africa due to lack of political will and financial constraints
22:49 Property rights, expropriation, and compensation in South Africa
24:57 Compensation must reflect balance between public interest and affected parties
29:16 Restitution process has not brought back land into the hands of people.
31:26 Challenges in land reform process in South Africa
35:54 Scholars like Ruth Hall provide insights on land reform
Restitution has been settled but slowly. Thts just a lie qnd who cares if the people prefer to have money than the land. Do you think they know how to manage tht land?
We will take our land back by any means necessary. First by peaceful means, but if peaceful means don't find resonance with those who continue to occupy our land and refuse to return it, then will resort to any other means left to us.
YOU DOING THE LORDS WORK
So shall we chop up all.the land in South Africa up into 65 million pieces, so that every black person has an equal share?.
Just remember it will then be impossible for any farming to take place, so no food production. Places like Checkers and Pick nPay will close, losing millions of jobs..
South Africans will have to rely on international donations of food aid.
The economy will collapse, naturally.
But everyone will have his equal piece of land, so all good.
@@ashleyadams5207 very childish, warmongering attitude. Basically what you are saying is that you want war.This will destroy this country totally. Is that a mature endgame to strive for?
Dr! You and the team are doing the most on these episodes , intelligent, unbiased and informative. This has become one of my favourite podcasts.
Unbiased? You make me laugh.
@@thomasprogli3372how is he biased since you think he is
@@ngalahansel6066 you guys have the most ridiculous arguments. As if my opinion matters that he is biased.
@@thomasprogli3372 you're angry but saying nothing. You're just mad that he's saying something you hate and for you, that qualifies as being "biased". That's such an illogical way to reason
Dr Sizwe I have seriously been ignorant on this issue, thank you for the education.
I have only heard polarizing takes on this issue. I wish everyone can clearly communicate this issue the way you have.
You are starting to really win me over here.... :(
Through redistribution, around 25% of farmland in our country is now owned by black South Africans, bringing us closer to achieving our target of 30% by 2030. This figure is based on an update of our work at the Bureau of Economics Research and the department of agricultural economics at Stellenbosch University.28 Mar 2024
Government conceded that more than 90% of farms that the State had transferred to black owners had failed.
You are ignorant of your ignorance. This guys family is tied with Zuma and the ANC. Dont think this is a centrist position
In the course of my work, I have travelled extensively in the Eastern & Northern Cape. Farms that were re- distributed have been left fallow. The new owners had insufficient funds to buy farm equipment, seed, etc, & no expertise in large scale farming. Farmers provide the country’s food. Farms left to die put our food source at risk. How is this overcome?
That is false. You are talking about land returned under Restitution. That land is owned by Community Trusts which cause lack of financial and toil (work) investment. Banks do not provide loans to trusts. Thus, substinence farming becames common farming in such land
@@ohlangeni Then why is the land covered in natural weed etc & machinery sitting in fields in various stages of rust & ruin?
@@sharonadams9721 because unlike the freeburgers of the Voc and the British they didn’t get 3-12 year tax exemption, seeds and farming implements from the government in the same way our colonisers did, change that and they’ll up their yield and make better use of the land.
@@sharonadams9721 Farming requires finance, usually bank funding.
Community trust cannot obtain bank loans.
Commercial farmers in SA receive State grants for mechanisation and in-put costs. Community trusts are not commercial farmers.
Commonly, one or two dominant trustees obtain long-term leases (unfair to other beneficiaries) who could then be considered farmers in the district and thus aided by the local Department of Agriculture. That is as far as Black people can meanifully participate in commercial farming
Thanks everyone for explaining all of this to me👍
Why is it a problem when 70-odd percent of land is owned by government. Why dont they do what is needed?
QWe vwant the land the white people aere possessing its too much for the minority, they should be ashamed of themselves , the people of the continent are living in squalers.
...well that simply wont do if the aim is to Equalize everybody...u will own nothing but be happy BS..besides the Eaters are after the minerals to hel with citizens..but that said They clearly dont comprehend the international laws ..thats why ramaphoza doesnt push for land besides that would mean the king has to distrubute the Trusts 3mil hectares which is a big monthly income..natrually thats not going to happen..
This is not true. Government only owns 24% of land. There is a massive gap in inequality directly connected to land dispossession
Y'all just love peddling this lie... Government does not own no more than 20 odd percent of the land. The vast majority of it is in the hands of the whites.
@@nlocnil3602nonsense 😂
The "Why" question can be answered by what happened in Zimbabwe. The devastating effect the sanctions had on this country still haunt the political elite in South Africa .
This is an inconvenient issue that does not fit Sizwe's racialised narrative.
We can't ignore our history, that's why when you're talking land in South Africa, it will be racialised whether we like it or not.
They always claim they are doing it for "their" people but in the end they are only doing it for themselves. This issue is also not one of ethnicity. You can see the same thing happening in the Ukraine. Russia is only taking back what was once theirs and Putin will give it back to the Russians. Pinky promise.
This is your problem . If u don’t move away from the system and governance u will never be free. Also you can’t go to heaven without dying. These ppl spilled blood before they got what they wanted. What makes I think you will talk them out of t?
What sanctions ?
What was Zimbabwe not allowed to import or export ?
Assalaamu alaykum brother. Shukran for the channel. I've learned so much, and my interest in politics has increased over the last month due to SMWX. May Allah reward and increase you and the team 🙏
❤
Your faithfulness to truth and transparency is in a class of it's own, even when the topic is difficult. I wish more people were this honest.
As Maya Angelou says, “History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.” You show this courage with a refreshing yet unimpeachable grace
This was EXCELLENT. I've understood the backstory behind land reform for the first time ... really. Sizwe, you're doing great.
Land repossession is the term that should be used
How do you repossess something you never owned in the first place.
Do you even know your great grandfathers name?
To us who like before listening to the content 😊 because we know DR Mpofu is going to deliver. My go to place for South African political analysis.
Thank you Sizwe, usi Nganga
💔😓Our history makes me weep🥺😭🇿🇦
I'm also feeling deeply sad. Our black people don't understand this and the mainstream media makes such that people know about the history
So does mine... humans are an odd bunch.
That said, I live now and need to ensure that future generations don't suffer the same.
Id worry more about your future
@@martharadebe9465 what should've happened is more provinces should've had a set up like Ingonyama trust. most of Eastern Cape. big parts of Free State, Limpopo, North-West, Mpumalanga - all these areas were traditional areas for our people if you look at history
Dr you are on fire my brother.If somebody steals your car you must pay him/her to buy gas so that he/she can bring car back to you.ANC ngamasimba wabantu serious.
The problem with land reform and tenure is in the finer detail:
Here are some examples:
- It is against the interest of the Department of Agriculture to subdivide agricultural land into smaller portions. This means the creation of smaller portions is discouraged and, in their opinion, will have a negative impact on food production and security. The consensus is also that one farmer with more land and resources can farm more effectively than more smaller farmers with the same area of land devided between "smaller" farmers.
- If you want to create tenure in rural areas (i.e. agricultural land not near towns) you have to create serviced erven. The servicing of this erven must then be (1) funded and (2) maintained by government. You will often find a dispute between the spheres of government because such municipalities where the reform takes place does not have the financial capacity to formalize, service and maintain erven, and the other spheres do not want to be burdened financially with the maintenance. This will remain an issue even if land could be expropriated without compensation.
In short, the problem with land reform is not as one-dimensional as it is made out to be. The challenges relate more to facilitation, not policy. Land use and development lies at an intersection of a variety of interests which are many times at odds with each other and we have not made any headway in this regard.
Have you looked at small farms around SA to confirm like in KwaZulu-Natal, this food security thing is rubbish we have pretty of food, I see food being wasted, shelves are full,
The issue is people want to monopolise food and use scare tactics like food scarcity issues to their benefit
@@esscce The issue relating to food security and the subdivision of agricultural land is not my opinion or view, it is the view of the custodians of the Department of Agriculture. I speak from experience.
You answered a question I had about the tenure subject. It does seem like the lowest hanging fruit and a good starting point but if the recipients are given an asset of property without the government providing basic services to that property then it diminishes the value of the transference substantially. It really is a difficult problem to solve.
@@daniestrijdom8248 Farms generally don't have services so I don't see what the problem is.
My patch of land and most of those around me are not provided with municipal water or Eskom electricity. Some of the bigger farms have electricity and they pay an arm and a leg just for availability.
There is a skip in the local village for waste removal.
There are already people living on communal land so giving title deeds makes no difference to service requirements.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ub Excellent - this is great input thanks. It means that there exists a possibility of getting a deed without getting the full-monty of government maintenance. For interest sake, do you farm with bees (capensis is bees right?)
Land reform is a must no ifs or buts. Without it there shall be no peace 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
Through redistribution, around 25% of farmland in our country is now owned by black South Africans, bringing us closer to achieving our target of 30% by 2030. This figure is based on an update of our work at the Bureau of Economics Research and the department of agricultural economics at Stellenbosch University.28 Mar 2024
RUBBISH!
... seeking attention!
No logic in your arguments!
A farm is a factory ... why don't you include ALL the factories to be redistributed?
@@troy1709-h5f Facts don't care about your feelings ...
@@cy-villian we don't have chest pain bro. 😂
Is there peace in Jamaica
Great one. I think when people think of land redistribution/restitution they think of what happened in Zim ( the violence part). Maybe political parties invested in this need to detail step-by-step how it will happen, in order to dispel concerns and fears.
Hey Fam.
Land does need to be restituted and redistributed, for economic access reasons:
Land can open up so many opportunities for entrepreneurs and small/medium business owners and for people to fend for themselves, especially the Youth instead of them just chilling at corners.
Secondly, land was taken away from people guys, from the Khoi/Khoe-San-Nama, the Bantu/Nguni, and Coloureds, denying this just makes society building in RSA even harder, and really impossible. This will lead to us never being able to be a functional, happy, cohesive, united, and equal nation; therefore our social ailments will never leave us.
Don't think short term, about your house, your job, your small business - think about the whole nation
We had a Land Restitution program. I think the figure quoted was that over 90% of recipients chose money over land. Possibly many of them used that money to buy urban properties or farm land in other ares. We just don't know.
However , the reality is that most people , black and white , don't want to farm.
That is not to say that I don't think there should be any further restitution or redistribution. It's just not close to our biggest priorities at the moment.
I do think that the issue of communal farming should be looked at. In today's world it is horribly unproductive.
Those farming communally on State land should be given the option to get Title Deeds for a portion of that land. This doesn't cost the country much but the beneficiaries benefit enormously.
For the record , while black people bore the brunt of forced removals , Indians and whites were also removed from some areas. Particularly in the Transkei region white farmers had to give way to black farmers so that the region could become independent.
Also lets go look at profiting farms that was part of food security, that was given back. How many of them still work today?
You mean like Zimbabwe? Lol
@@TickleMeChelmnoThe colonialists are always trying to give example of Zimbabwe to scare black South Africans from land restitution. Zimbabwe suffered because of neocolonialism. It was used as an example why whites cannot be held accountable for any wrongs committed during colonialism. Zimbabwe is today free from white supremacy today and that is their freedom. If white South African are really interested in the so called rainbow nation, then they should by all means try to fix the unjust laws of land dispossession of the past. However we all know the dual citizenship the majority of the whites possess which allows them to not really care about the welfare of their fellow black citizens.
Wow....thank you for explaining this...this is so vital for everyone to listen to and understand❤
Happy to say I have been following this page for 4 years
Mandela and his friends,Tambo,Sisulu etc were not man of honour.ANC has never changed.
They never changed anything 😢
I said that long ago that he was a traitor to his people
Nothing stopped any of your forefathers to be the heroes you so wish that the Mandela's would've been!
Fact is thee baton has been passed wena wenzani? What's stopping you from being the hero???
They were great men. South Africa owes them a huge debt.. Have you studied the Rivonia trial?
@@Kalushi-w4t nothing is stopping them. south africans have become comfortable being ruled by their whites adjacency, they are now voting for the white DA...
I have a problem with compensation because,when our land was stolen,our forefathers were not compensated.
Julius Malema once used a very simple example.
He said,if someone steals your car and makes improvements on it and,it is found,the person who stole your car cannot demand compensation for, installing a powerful sound system,mags etc because he has committed a crime by stealing your car.
I agree 💯% with what he said.
Until such time that the illegal occupiers of our land can prove that our forefathers were compensated,this demand which is also enshrined in our constitution is ridiculous.
It should have never,ever been agreed to.
If I buy a car legally , it has to go through police clearance , roadworthy etc. Afterwards , I have to pay annual licensing fees (i.e. tax) .
The State has thus legitimised my ownership. If you want to claim it back , then the State needs to compensate me for expenses incurred.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ubexcept that the car you got was acquired by force of arms or through discriminatory laws enacted by the former institutional racist regime. You’re not being victimised you’re simply playing victim
@@wangatshivhase8381 Yes, the land was forcibly taken from the Khoi San by the black tribes.
the white tribes then took it from the black tribes so all the land should go back to the Khoi San.
So if you want to go back to the root , all of Southern Africa should be returned to the Khoi San.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ub cop out argument. The Khoi don’t think so, at least those representing them in parliament who will tell you that we drifted and are apart of them in that we share a common struggle of dispossession and interference by Europeans and we share a common enemy. Nice try thou
To them we drifted and you forcibly settled here and implanted your own people.
I thought about this a lot. I think restitution can be solved the following way;
(Ignoring all the land in governments/trust's hands)
1) Incentevise farmers to give a portion of their land in exchange for tax breaks. Land will be reserved for farm workers, agricultural students, and those who can't prove that they were disposessed and want to work the land. This will prevent the politcally connected to highjack it like with BEE.
2) Land can't be sold for 20 years (this will prevent people from claiming land and just selling it back for a quick buck, preventing generational wealth/ownership).
3) Government to subsidize startup farms in exchange for cheaper prices to sell goods locally (this will bring down food costs for all).
4) Hire existing farmers to train new land owners and pay them mostly in commission, this will prevent box ticking exercises and make sure farmers do everything for new land owners to succeed.
5) Open up cannabis legislation and reserve licenses for small and medium farmers to prevent corporate monopoly.
6) Title deeds NB NB NB!
This is how I think you can do it without creating food insecurity or social instability.
A tax break us not going to be an incentive lol
The land us worth far more than any tax break possibly given haha
So if the land goes to ruin within those 20 years they can never sell it and our agriculture has tp suffer for it?
Government already subsidizes farms but they dint have a high success rate because the subsidies are either not enough or the people working the land have no knowledge on how to
Our government has hern againt alchol tobacco f9r years now. They are not a fan of cannabis
An article by the Bureau for Economic Research in September 2023 stated that 19 million hectares of commercial farmland , 24.7% of all freehold agricultural land, have been transferred away from white ownership, so don't come with falsified statistics.
If most of the land belongs to Government, Commercial, and Agriculture, its obvious why the ANC doesnt act decisively. They have majority stakes in the first two, and you simply cant mess with agriculture when the very fabric of societal South Africa depends on it to eat and work.
In Zambia the land issue was dealt with decisively by the founding father Kenneth Kaunda and the UNIP govt. Apart from traditional land , all the land belongs to the state and is vested in the President. Land is leased to the holder for 99 years. Zambia avoided the nonsense in Zimbabwe. Seems South Africa wants to take the Zimbabwe route.Many white Zimbabwean commercial farmers moved to Zambia and have set up farms in the fertile Mkushi farming block.
Remember the land in Zambia was not contested. Southern Rhodesia was the Jewel that is why there was UDI and war to take back the land independence. Zambia did not have to fight for it. Thought I should highlight the differences and the claims of whites to the land.
Same problem in zambia, except the white farmers there lay low
No John Nchansa, South Africans want a South African solution. Looking in hindsight is what enables Zambia to say their execution was better. At the time of taking the decision it was not clear if the decision would prosper. What is annoying us South Africans is that government is not implementing decisions that we agreed to. First, we need to identify those who must be recompensated. Verify if they can farm or if they are willing to sell to the government with the understanding that their future generations will not reclaim the land. Second, identify those who want to farm but never owned land, get them to sign the 99year lease, land belongs to the state. Thirdly then deal with those who just want a piece of land for residential purposes.
We are not idiotic just lazy or too afraid to implement the decision. This a management issue mainly performance which can be addressed through performance agreements.
@ johnchansa so white Zimbawean farmers have 99 years lease in prime Zambian agricultural land. Kenneth kaunda really solved the land issue as you say
@@ivanmark9525 Not only that late President Mwanawasa invited the displaced white farmers to come to Zambia much to the annoyance of Robert Mugabe. Tobacco crop production in Zambia tripled in 1 year.
This is an important conversation to have I saw the caption to today's episode and it really compelled me to want to watch. I didn't choose to live and grow up in the Township. Townships were created during the Apartheid era, forcibly segregating Black South Africans into these areas, areas with poor living conditions, and limited access to basic services such as healthcare, education, and water. We should never stop emphasising the importance of Land, we are where we are today as a Nation because of Land being forcefully taken from us, Our grandfathers went from owning land to working in gardens and farms for the White men, cruel dispossession and stealing yho!
Have you heard of War? People fight, some people lost. Whether or not I benefit from some great grandfather who won a war has nothing to do with you or I. It’s just the hand we were dealt, the only way forward is moving forward. You can’t take stuff away from me because of something my great great grandfather may or may not have done
@@kentclark9616 you are misinformed and very wrong, the conversation here is the 1913 Land Act which was to dispossess Africans of their land, following that the 1950 Groups Areas Act which was enacted by the Apartheid government to racially segregate us Clark, hence I say I never chose to grow up in the Townships I was put there! You and your forefathers directly benefited from the Acts of thievery, you were given resources and platforms to advance yourselves and your posterity. Currently, Africans own very little to NO LAND at all, compared to the White minority who own 90% of the land. Moving forward is admitting the wrongs done being sensitive to the real consequences and challenges my people face daily and help rewrite the wrongs of your forefathers by paying reparations! Stop being defensive and ignorant. If you continue to be that way then it will be war, but if you are a true and honest human being we will work together as a nation and move forward.
In 1948 when Apartheid started many Black people were already living in townships. More than 30 000 Black people were put in concentration camps during the Anglo Boer War. After the war has ended in 1902, many of these Black camps were not dissolved and they just evolved into becoming townships. So, the British actually created the majority of the big townships and not the NP.
@@ChrisTus83 in 1913 what happened, since you know your history? In 1950 what did the Boer government implement? I think Chris we can both agree that Africans have been done wrong in their own Land.
@@kentclark9616this is idiotic and I really hope no funds were used in an attempt to give you education.The theft of land by Europeans was not an act of nature but a deliberate act by colonisers to deprive black people of their land in order to turn them into paupers that will be reduced to labourers for Europeans.This can and should be undone for justice to occur in order for South Africa to move forward.
Yet you hear them today complaining there's a "reverse apartheid" when there are redress attempts
The delusion is real my guy
The whites are now only 7.3 % and shrinking. You dont have to worry we will soon all be gone and you will prosper
Excepting fairness from these pll is like waiting for a dog to fly . All I’ve the globe they are the same so when I see pll smiling with them I just shake my head
@@ayakhasokabo8816 Can you say Koi-San? There are real question my guy...
When will you get it into your thick skulls that us white Citizens did not steal land from anyone. We bought our property and pay taxes on that. Nothing is Mahala, and nor are we land thieves. You will have to did up the dead for your land. 😂😂
Paying taxes on land is like renting land from the government. Will everyone then pay taxes?
Everybody who owns land pays taxes in one form or another.There is no free lunch, except for the state.
Thanks for this. Looking forward to watching. I think Tembeka Ngcukaitobi also did a video a few years breaking down the concepts and explaining the causes for the lack of progress.
The government PLAS has failed. Black emerging farmers were leased state land at very high rates, with little financial and extension service support. Without long term lease or tittle deeds ,farmers could not access funding, and lots of farmers are now in debt to the state and are threatened with evections. Most have spent more than 10 years on the land, most of them have no chance of being employed because of age, others are over 60 years of age. The state must look into this group of farmers amongst the important land issues.
Sizwe, please can we have a conversation on what having the Land, the day after means... These farms were largely subsidised by the Apartheid state, these private patches of land and owners are in massive debt... Can we begin to have real dreams informed by what these farms are and can be beyond dispossession. How does reclamation look like and its pitfalls, so we succeed.
It was stolen with no compensation. Rewrite the laws and take back without compensation
Stolen from who ?
The Khoi San ?
Shaka stole more land than anyone else did in the East of South Africa. Why are we not discussing him here?
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ub khoi San are black africans
@@dianathompson8794whataboitism
How far back must we go. How do we know who was the original occupants and who are their descendants
It is true that 70% of our land is agricultural land, but agriculture literally accounts for 2.5% of our GDP. Which is why 68% of South Africa live in urban areas, because we all know there is no real economic prospects in rural areas.
I really think if what we want is economic prosperity for black people what is going to be key is lowering unemployment and giving black people in urban areas access to opportunities, opportunities. Focusing on something that only contributes 2.5% to our GDP and concluding that it is key to poverty in this country is strange.
SUMMARY
The three concepts of land reform
Restitution
Get something back that belongs to you.
Dispossession of land through war and law. You can get that land back to 1913. Analogy cup.
Redistribution
Not everyone can prove but in general indiginous lost land. Therefore let’s share land more equally. Analogy: divide up the garden
Tenure reform
Already working farms regardless of piece of paper. Eg state. Rights to land already on.
Conclusion
Some combination
Current failures since 1994
72% not owned by black SA
2/3 of land mass is grams and stuff
Dr Sizwe and the rest of the SMWX fam, many who oppose land expropriation often cite the importance of land to be productive in order to ensure food security. Zimbabwe is often used as an example of how land expropriation can derail a country's economy. How do we as South Africa ensure that that does not happen?
The difference between SA and `Zim is that the land in Zim was given to ZANU-PF soldiers and loyalists. Zim did not have a healthy crop individuals who are trained in agriculture. SA does have the individuals that we have trained to do so. The only challenge will be, will the government give them the access and resources to accelerate the productivity?
@@thulanimahlangu6012and the sanctions did not help.
@@_moonopoly Yes they did not help. But the blow could have been softened bylimiting the food insecurity.
We cant ...The private business sector is under lock n key
We do have 2 farms in Roadtan in limpopo and the proof is there is a Graves there and white owners even denied our access to the graves
Land and housing reform is a game changing lever for inclusive economic growth.
@sizwe The first Minister of Agriculture in the Mandela cabinet in 1994 was Derek Hanekom who was and is an ANC minister.
First to comment! 🙌🏾 Thanks Sizwe for the robust and informative content.
But you haven't even listened to the content. The video is 5 minutes old and your comment is two minutes old, yet the video is 37 minutes long! But I am second to comment😂
He knows and we know it's always good😅
@@0761ZoROI've been listening to Sizwe since the beginning. I know the content will always be good.
Here's my counter question: what were you doing in the comments of a 37 minute video while it was only 2 minutes old? 🤔
Thanks for the insights, Sizwe. I have gained a lot of knowledge through this episode. I have read "The Land is Ours" by Advocate Tembeka Ngcukaitobi and still need to get "Land Matters." I think it would be great to have Advocate Ngcukaitobi as your guest one day to dive deeper into these insights.
Bakcanize SA so that this land question can be solved. There are not only black and white people in SA there are also Indian and coloured people in South Africa. Then there are land that was legally bought and paid for during the 1800s what will happen to that land? Between 1652 and 1910 huge parts of SA were simply unpopulated there were nobody there and it never belong to anybody. Also remember in 1652 there were not a country called South Africa. So those who start developing it should also have a say on who owns the land and who not. I sometimes wonder is this about getting hold of well developed farms that are benefitting many South Africans in terms of jobs and foreign currency, or is it about getting land for some or other political reason.
These are inconvenient questions that do not fit Sizwe's racialised narrative.
You sound ridiculous if you steal land then build on that stolen land you should have a say, that's like if I hijack your car then put some rims and sound system on it and at some point, you want it back I should have a say on which parts you should have or I should get paid for you to get it back even thou I stole it.
Only in Africa where people ask for land that was taken unjustly under a lawless system to be recognised by the laws and government of the day. When 80% of the land of the country is agricultural land, and 70% of that land belongs to a few powerful families that got the land through no legal means and gave themselves everlasting contracts, then the problem is right before your eyes.
It's an economy that will never serve its people, only a few rich families and if you cannot grasp this then that's on you.
Listen to your self
@@SpotonwithTP-qz6wq "You sound ridiculous if you steal land" Who stole land from who, that is what I want to know bring me the owner who lost land in 1780 or in 1910 then I can believe you.
Many neighborhoods around the world are similar. If Blacks have the opportunity to access land they too can build better lives. Many of these neighborhoods are aged and some have already moved to a better life.
I want restitution, redistribution and tenure reform land right there in Rondebosch
I'd like a nice flat at Clifton beach but unless I have a few million I'm not going to get it.
Is it because it is developed ? Why so lazy bro, go to the Karoo
@@nathanagnew9167 Why the Karoo of all places? You are aware that the Karoo is a semi freaken desert??
@@Luba_Dyasi Yes I am you need to build from scratch. Why do you want a farm that's already developed ? Why do you just want things to be the easy way. Every farm you see was developed by white people and it was hard work and millions of Rands. You need to go take land in Zululand or EC.
@@nathanagnew9167😂😂😂the karoo has endless land😂😂
Millions of people world wide dont own a piece of land. Its not a right. The government owns most of the land in this country.
Are you saying that it should not be a right? Or are you just stating a fact?
@@nyamekeye just stating a fact, not every person in this country will own land or can afford to own land.
@@deniscoyne5671 ok. Thank you for clarifying
The problem is not just that not everyone has land, but mainly that a big chunk of it is in the hands of white people disproportionately. In Africa, this is a ridiculous statistic.
@@deniscoyne5671😂 i am one of them! I dontbown land or a home!
Why is nobody trying this in the USA or Australia or in Europe, where the current owners of land are not the "original inhabitants"? If all land in SA is taken without compensation from all whites and distributed amongst black SAs - who will get what and how will it work? What happened to all the farms in SA which were "redistributed"? What about the 72% of KZN owned by the Zulu king?
We want all of it back. What USA and Astralia do is entirely up to them, we are not them and they are not us, each situation is different and unique and must treated as such.
@@ashleyadams5207 so what land would you like back and what do you plan to do with it? If all the land is taken back, what do you think you will get and what will the original owners (ie the Khoi) get?
@@chriscoetzer sell it back to the previous owner...
@@ashleyadams5207 When you say "we" do you mean the Khoi San ?
@@chriscoetzer this concocted nonexistent divide and conquer Koi San narrative is beginning to lose its flavour already. Unless the Khoi San are not African like the rest of us, they shouldn't have a problem with Africans reclaiming they're land back, and if they're not Africans, then the Khoi San can claim no land on African soil and neither can you.
I think it’s important to reflect that a lot of commercial farms are owned by large companies. Massive shift from family owned farms since 1980s.
Please do not use the term "European " for white South Africans.It is an Apartheid term, and highly offensive to many white South Africans.
Absolutely agree
But you are Europeans😂
But you are Europeans😂
@@user-hm4qn7wt3t so it is ok for others to address you as a word that begins with the letter, that comes after j?
Are you the only people who can find certain terms offensive?.
What makes you special?
@@dianathompson8794 you can't possibly be that stupid to equate those two.Like really woman you being a European can be equal to black people being dehumanised by the k word.Given your thinking, I bet you also think that there is a genocide of colonial settlers in South Africa.
Zimbabwe has all the land , its going great there?
They were sanctioned...You cant use that place as a example
Zimbabwe poverty is a result of illegal sanctions. Many countries are sanctioned Cuba, Iran, Eritrea. They can't develop because they have been excuded from world economic systems. The good thing with those countries is their country belongs to them, South Africans are poor and land less. It's better to be poor and free than a well fed slave.
Zimbabwe was an example for countries of SADC to be fearful and not reclaim their land. People don't understand the full story of Zimbabwe, only what the media tells them
@KillmongerWasRight45 he just wants us to be fearful and not fight for what belongs to us
@@KillmongerWasRight45 so was South Africa prior to 1994, more heavily than Zimbabwe
We should breakdown the land question per province. A province such as KZN does not have the same quality land as that of the NC. In KZN 73% of all land is owned by Government or Tribes.
The Northern Cape is a huge province, but few people want to live there because of the lack of resources there, water, fertile soil and so forth. IMO it is disingenuous to talk about the land issue and not talking about what people actually want out of it. Do they want the land to be split up equally across the country. The same size land 2 people getting the same size land one in NC and another in KZN.
Start with what we want, then we can discuss how to get it.
I would love this topic to be unpacked more in a panel discussion where at least 75% of the time is spent on discussing practical options for the future. Especially if we can show which of these practical options have been tried, how they worked, and how we can improve on them. This is a very complex issue, so I hope the complexity can be engaged and done so in a very practical matter. We are not too stupid to not engage the complexity. Just imporant that the panel takes us on a practical journey as an audience.
This is why hard work alone isn't enough when the inequality is systemic.
I would like proof that all these people who claim their ancestors land was stolen is actually true. You cant just demand land. Maybe need to go back and do some research
I believe that the commercial agricultural land should be given to those who work it or have the "willingness, know-how and ability to work it". The majority of the population need is decent housing, food security, a functioning country without corruption, no crime, strong education system, economic growth that creates jobs and decent quality of living .
Ownership of land is a means to the economic emancipation . I believe the rightful owners should get their land back and serious commercial farmers can lease the land for production purposes and everyone is in a win win situation . This ensures that generation to generation of the black child is taken care of , this is what the bible says leaving an inheritance for your children's children .
@finekumuka8379 Basically your strategy admits that whoever is going to "get the land back" is not going to do anything with it other then wait for someone to come and lease it. There is no intention of working the land. I'm sure the African continent is full of examples of how this kind strategy ends up looking like!
@@MJG1017 Not necessarily so , right now as a capable black person to venture into farming is a challenge because not many have the capital resource to buy or lease the land. This can be addressed if the government is the owner of the land and then leases to all capable persons at reasonable rates since they will make more money from taxing the produce. Current set up benefits those who stole the land .
@finekumuka8379 So the government should give the land back to the black population so that the black population can seat on it, hope, pray and wait for the "thiefs" white man can comeback and lease it from the blacks, so that the blacks can make some money and build the generational wealth!!! Just look around in the African continent, my friend, we already have the consequences and end results of that strategy!!!
This conversation is really getting tiring cause everyone is talking but no one is doing anything about it 🤷🏾♂️
Word and understanding is spreading thats enough for now
The South African government is the largest landowner in the country. It makes no sense to take agricultural land. Start up proper mentorship programmes with farmers and provide rewards like shareholding IF the employees remain at the farm. Clawback share options if they leave. Like any business.
One thing about Sizwe, I disagree with MANY of his views, but I always enjoy hearing them.
Thanks!
I'd like to paint a quick scenario for everyone here, so that we can look at this from a different angle:
Choose a country other than South Africa. Literally any other country in the world, on any continent, whether it be Europe, Asia, America or the Middle East.
Now picture a citizen of such a country walking into his local government office, and having the following conversation with the government official on duty:
Citizen: "I'd like to apply for some free land, please."
Official: "Excuse me?"
Citizen: "Free land. I want to apply for it."
Official: "I'm sorry sir, but we don't give out free land. If you would like to purchase some land, then you must pay for it like everybody else."
Citizen: "This is oppression! I am being oppressed by the state! My ancestors lived here hundreds of years ago, and I demand to be reimbursed for the suffering that they went through!"
Official: "Security, please!"
The End
I think you are taking it in the wrong way. Put it this way. groups of african thugs to germany, Romania Netherlands or any European country, the Netherland etc. They bring with them guns, and apparently the europeans who are the natives probably have spears and wooden sticks for fighting. The Africans, because they are heavily armed with guns, start grabbing the land, moving the Europeans other areas, displacing them, disturbing the family unit, they even steal the cattle etc and start farming. Years later, the Europeans or what ever, their children see that there was injustice and they want their land back, but the MINORITY THUGGERY GREEDY AND RASCIST africans are still fighting them off.......keep on imagining.
AFTER HEARING SIZWE, I BELIEVE THE EFF AND MKP IS RIGHT. THEY MUST CLAIM THEIR LAND BACK WITHOUT COMPENSATION.!!!
It would be good to look at th statistics Sizwe. I'd also be interested to know how much private land is unused and how much land is belonging to tribal trusts. This is certainly a political hot patato, but much of unused tribal land is in some of the most fertile high rainful and moderate temperate regions.
The government owns more land than anyone else . I don’t see them giving any to the people that need it . Why ?🌎
I addressed this in the video…
This is apartheid against all people who are not ANC.Why should people get land for free?No place in the world do you get land for free😂😂
Unfortunately many in this country have a handsout approach to life.
Free education, free housing, free grants to bring up your children, free electricity , free healthcare and free land.
Thing is, life is never free ...someone somewhere has to pay.
Because of the handsout mentality that prevails.
@@dianathompson8794Europeans did by killing and stealing the land.Study history and you will realise that from Asia, Americas, Australia and Africa, wherever the European lands,they destroy the lives of the indigenous and cause a huge damage on the environment.South Africa is no different and people must wake up accept this fact if they want change.
@@dianathompson8794Europeans did by killing and stealing the land.Study history and you will realise that from Asia, Americas, Australia and Africa, wherever the European lands,they destroy the lives of the indigenous and cause a huge damage on the environment.South Africa is no different and people must wake up accept this fact if they want change.
Maybe an explanation of what land you are talking about would help?
Only around 11% of the entire South African land mass is arable land. The rest is only suitable for grazing, wildlife or habitation. The arable land should be prioritised for large scale crop production, to ensure country food security.
In the past 15 years, or so, we have gone from having around 11% of land under active agriculture to having only around 9% being farmed. That must be reversed as a matter of priority. Government owned farms (and there are a LOT of them) need to be productive and community owned farms need to have mentorship so they don't just degenerate into a nothing burger that benefits neither the owners or the country.
This is my problem with this land discussion is black people are told half truths.
Agriculture only contributes 2.5% of our GDP. It is not going to be the magical bullet to economic prosperity, because only 11% of it as you’ve said it useful for farming.
@@tashansofwa2426 I think land has become the metaphorical 'black cat'. Everyone is talking at cross purposes. I can get why people want a patch of land that belongs to them but very few people even want a farm. Most just want enough land to have a modest home and enough garden for the kids to kick a football around.
@@RSAMommacyndi i also think in this conversation people conveniently forget the minority status of white people. In that they seem to forget that what made 3 million people rich is not going to make 58 million people rich.
The apartheid government succeeded in creating wealth for a minority of people and what it’s going to take to create wealth for a majority of people is not going to be the same thing.
You never dissapoint, bukumele igama lakho ngu Fuzile ngoba ulandele ekhondweni laka Adv. Mpofu. Like Father, like Son, thank you Dr 👏🏿
It seems that many people don't know that white people are African too... We are all human beings and we actually all share the same ancestors... Our race is the human race...
Many people know that, that is why, we believe that every family need enough land to sustain life, regardless of colour
@@sibonisoharrydlamini9733 Most people have a job to sustain life , not land.
Wow...how Convenient..we know that and we accept it..but realistically..you are here by Occupation..now when it suits you just because you have SA ID?...have you forgotten how your Fore Fathers scrambled and forcefully occupied this country?...and no no..your have your own Ancestry who as I said above.. occupied this Land illegally so...your Ancestors died peacefully in their Old Age.. whilst my Ancestors were preMaturely eliminated and killed Mercilessly in their middle Age..by your Ancestors...thus don't tell us we share Ancestry...we Accept that you're my fellow Citizen..but when are you going to Accept my Generational plight that was Man-made ..and just Redistribute your ill gotten Wealth without any lame Argument 😢??
@@eddiekhanyile4588 Black people are in Southern Africa by occupation.
Does it make any difference if you sailed here or walked here ?
Are there special rules which make it ok for one lot of people to occupy land but not others ?
@@eddiekhanyile4588 How many deaths did Shaka cause ?
Do you know why black people now live longer in Africa than ever before ?
White people brought medicines which reduced deaths from malaria, teste fly , cholera and many other diseases.
White people , while also complicit in the slave trade for a short while ( the arabs did it for centuries) stopped worldwide slavery.
It's not an accident that Africa experienced a population explosion after the arrival of white people.
So while white people did causes deaths , they saved a lot more.
As a critic, I believe in you, you are brilliant Dr. Mpofu. Calm, collected and clear on delivering every subject matter.
Looking over CPT makes me sad, i live in the same area the apartheid govnt placed my grandparents in on the cape flats...they actually come from sea point.
Whose fault is that ?
For the last 30 years you can live anywhere that you can afford.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ubblaming individuals is vile
We feel your cry, that's why people like you must not keep quiet
@@rice4550 So you're not prepared to take responsibility for your own actions ?
How did they end up in sea point back in the day ?
ANC has been an absolute failure for the people of SA!!!
There was willful disregard for this process. We were robbed again by the ANC.
Through redistribution, around 25% of farmland in our country is now owned by black South Africans, bringing us closer to achieving our target of 30% by 2030. This figure is based on an update of our work at the Bureau of Economics Research and the department of agricultural economics at Stellenbosch University.28 Mar 2024
Im from a Town Planning profession and this was literally my class lecture, excellently presented. Thanks Hlubi for explaining this important matter to the masses. Then people can link all this information to politics, one can clearly see and understand the Values of the political parties in SA, eg, The MK wants to amend the constitution to address such matters, because it understand that the majority are land less from history, another eg, is the DA, their value is in capitalism and privatization, they avoid the issue of land at all costs because they know that white minority owns most land, economic activity on the land and they want to protect the interest of minority. Land is not the agenda of the DA
I have numerous examples of land that was provided to the disadvantaged. The farmer sold the land to the government for R100k. They give the land to the disadvantaged individual. Not even 3 months later, the receiver of the new land sells it back to the original farmer for R50k. Most people receiving land have no idea how to farm. Farmers feed the nation. Truth be told, people don’t want land, they want the money.
Will you also be discussing the restitution that the Zulus owe the isiXhosa and other tribes, due to Shaka's grabbing their land by force???
That's something they don't like to talk about , or the fact that all of southern Africa was originally inhabited by the Khoi San.
I suspect that the Swazis would like a big chunk of SA back that was stolen from them by the zulu's.
@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ub exactly...doesnt fit their narrative.
@@dianathompson8794 So you didn't get that in that 40minutes that explains the difference in land claims, news flash families have been on court for years ,go back and listen to the video.
@@gentlesoul9046 maybe learn the concept of irony
@@dianathompson8794 listen is a skill I guess ,if you don't get it you won't get it.
impressed by the quality of these discussions, considering the amount of relevant content being put out. the last conversation with uGogo wow 👏🏾 i think the timing of this episode is perfect because so many things get muddied up and sensationalized on social media and false narratives are pushed to us
This is a very serious issue that needs to be resolved soon. I feel all relevant agencies, organizations and political parties need to come together, sit in a room and come up with a workable solution. Which needs to be publicly aired, so the people are always up to date on what is happening and can see all the different points that come across. Its complicated issue that needs resolvement. I just pray that their isn't an over correction, as to what happened in Zimbabwe. There needs to be a fair compromise from all sides.
I believe this issue is a red herring that will not solve the issues it allegedly addresses. The black poor will still be poor and still have no land because they will either never get it or lose it very quickly. The reason being that getting land, does not mean you know how to keep land. Just because the Xhosa had land does not mean the Zulus were not taking this land away from them.
There are gatekeepers in the world's economy and those gatekeepers don't take kindly to their own losing land that was acquired through violence & conquer. That's why some countries spend trillions on military power whilst some spend peanuts. Those guys understand the power of land in building powerful states and you wonder they still cannot let Africa control its own economy. Through land, comes power and the big hegemonies like America & The West understand this perfectly.
They will say stuff like you cant do it on your own...while plotting and sabotaging you and sending other africans to undermine you in somecases worse
I wonder where the conversation on land begins and the conversation on capital ends. Addressing spatial apartheid through redistribution is key, but I think there is an assumption that redistribution of land will transform capital relations. Only if redistribution follows a democratic and transparent process will we see any kind of real equity being realised, otherwise we risk reproducing the same exploitative inequality that exists today. The face of the elite may be different, but the goals of that elite will be the same.
A well articulated analysis of the land question. Part of this question is also understanding the Agrarian question, both these questions must not be understood unilaterally.
Hypothetical question here if someone bought a house in 2019 and have title deeds and have a bank loan to pay for the property does this mean they still stole the land if they are white,coloured,Indian even though a person has proof of house purchase and if this is the case why has the government allowed the sale to go through. Someone enlighten me.
I want to know too. Sizwe always cherry picks his arguments and avoids real questions like these.
During apartheid land was stolen by Europeans no different from land that was stolen in Kenya by the British or Zim and Namibia. You ppl really have no conscience.
Tenure reform in urban settings can be powerful tool.
You explained it so well. That is the reason why EFF and MKA are so passionate about redisrtibution of land. Its scary how a certain race can just come into someones country and grab land and make it their own. Highest calibre of thievery and greediness. LAND REFORM IS A MUST.
This has been quite an informative view Dr. Thank you.
On this complex topic I think the main dominant schools of thought are Restorative school and Reformative school.
The restorative school is often quite emotive and divisive, and therefore loved by politicians. The idea of being able to reset seems to have so much appeal to human beings. But even proponents of this school change their minds when you say it sounds like all land should belong to the Khoi and the San if we truly believe in restoration.
Even if current land was distributed equitably (still not sure what that means: is it like 1 hactare each?), a generation from now the distribution may still prove to be suboptimal as land use changes.
I am fan of Reformative school of thought, which is based on the believe that land is a limited resource we share with current and future generations, and that it's use may change over time. This school requires that there is a minimum 40 year land use plan, revised every 20 years. Based on this plan we can designate different land parcels for residential use, commercial use, conservation etc. It is this plan that should inform how we ensure that distribution is fair.
Where land needs to be expropriated, it should be at cost i.e. the value of land should be on use and not on mere ownership of land over time.
@janmogwana5930 interesting observation bra Jan but what is Citizans position on those who lost land as a consequence of conquest or discriminatory policies that were enacted that can show you where they were dispossessed? Is it not in harmony with justice and fairness to ensure they’re given back that which was dispossessed from them ?
How does citizans see this dilemma because there is no shortage of such people all across South Africa both Khoi and Bantu* people?
Love the work you guys are doing by the way! sending blessings and revolutionary energy you way 👍🏽
Last one bra Jan, in cases where they were dispossessed without compensation which happened to a lot of people, would it not be an injustice on top of a injustice to buy back that which was forcefully taken from you with no compensation and thus being restricted to small and not-arable areas of land also known as bantustans and homelands ? What is Citizans position on such cases ?
Well taught Dr Sizwe. Good work. Thank you. Land gives African identity and land reform can drive development culturally and economically.. Our society will be better after good Godly reform.
Isn't the main reason that 92% of people have chosen money over land is that they really don't want land but rather just a descent life, and not a patch of farmland to do what with? We need jobs and inclusivity, not land reform. Or am I wrong about this?
After thirty plus years of the end of apartheid. After thirty plus years of the government being held by the ANC, it’s absolutely unacceptable that so many of the indigenous population lives in such harsh and desperate situations.
The question becomes, why is this still the situation. From there we’re left with the need to draw our own conclusions.
One conclusion: apartheid ended and the few (to include the black indigenous African) in control ensured that they and their people benefited, instead of making sure there was a sincere move forward that benefited the masses of the indigenous population.
Second conclusion: apartheid ended and the few didn’t make the most important issue of land redistribution a priority.
Third conclusion: Maybe the few in control were afraid to do what had to be done and instead went with the same ole way to keep the peace.
Fourth conclusion: Those who were the leaders in government (the indigenous Black African), didn’t know how to navigate legal paths to ensure fair and equitable redistribution of land that gave their own indigenous population a foundation to build upon. In all actuality and metaphorically speaking.
Every leader both of the past and the current should feel a sense of shame for allowing such a destitute situation to exist and to exist for so long.
Doc
This episode is truly magical!
Yes, the two books of Tembeka Ngcukaitobi - for me - was just beautiful. He is just such an archive junkie. I am sure you will love the work of Patrick Tariq Mellet - The Lie of 1652.
The work that you do on this platform is just BEAUTIFUL!
It brings back such wonderful memories of how Euby use to rave about you.
Thank you for referring to him as "The Late GREAT Eusebius McKaiser" - you are kind to do so...
You are right Sir, The land issue must be dealt with. Now is the time to do it. Your explanation is clear. Do we have the tools to deal with it? As a black person I am very much hurting.
Just wondering, people with multiple properties, all races, should they share their land?
It'll never be resolved
Never anywhere globally has it been resolved and SA is no exception.
History sucks sometimes but we can't change it.
Is this channel aimed at a particular audience?
Hot Take 🔥:
Maybe we should start abolishing the idea of private property.
Even if we redistribute fairly, it's only a matter of time before the land is concentrated in the hands of the few once again. Only this time, it might not be along racial lines.
South Africa should do what New Zealand did: pay out the stolen and dispossessed
Pay to who? To the thief’s ?
😢Thank you, Dr. Mpofu this is very informative and important. Can you invite government on land reform department. And lastly, DR JJ needs to come back asap for an interview post election. Sibonge
Sizwe great analysis, SMWX is getting stronger and better. Keep up the great work.
I hear you, but I want to ask either you or the comment section a serious question. I want to preface my question by saying I have no skin in this game. I can’t afford land. I don’t own a house or anything. So my question is: What happens if I go to the bank and get a loan to buy a farm/property today. I did not own it before today. Tomorrow, the government says it should be given to a dispossessed individual. What is the process here? Since I only owned it for one day. Can it be said that I stole it? What happens to my loan? Should I still pay it even though I no longer own the land.
Ok, so there are actually several questions! 😂
I’m really asking because I’m curious. Please don’t read this as an attack.
Hi Dr Mpofu-Walsh my family owns land in Oskraal and they have the documents to prove it,however the process has been frustrated by the government because it has minerals. There was even someone assassinated a couple of years ago for pursuing the restitution. It’s unfortunate to see our parents unable to enjoy the fruits of their grandfather’s land and we don’t know who to seek guidance from anymore
Dr SMW and team, thank you so much, the work you do is important and so appreciated. Just wanted to express my deep and heartfelt gratitude for the dedicated work you do day after day. It is Eye opening, educational, informative, intellectually stimulating and/or thought provoking . Love how you impart information and dissect the issues. Your platform is exceptional. Keep up the great work…