I’m glad ur doing it full time now , wish u the best. Ill try to join into history not sure where to find it but I’ll check out the podcast sites and look for it
Well it not likely but there's always a way, everyone would have to be either in on it or quick thinking take advantage of a situation where pat did kill the wrong man, wanted to get out of it so him and the deputies lie and say its billy who dyed his skin brown. Billy's friends in turn see the situation and go along with it, giving Billy a chance to fake his death. Thats the only way I could see him living past that night. Now what are the odds of that? Probably about the same as getting struck by lightning three times on the tip of the dong. Id have to agree that he was killed that night, as much as I'd like to think he lived on.
Would be one of those rare cases where an entire town actually did conspire to do something like this. That said this isnt tricking people into fishing far away from the best spots or convincing people drop bears will eat them.
It's always a possibility. Memories change over the years. But you will never know for sure. Just like it's always possibility Hitler made it out of Germany.
I would like to point out that when I was a teenager I got to know a good friend of my fathers, Tom Garrett, great nephew of Pat Garrett. Tom knew Pat well. Tom told me that Pat told him that he did not kill his friend Billy the kid. Take that for what you want, I’ll believe Tom, he had no reason to lie to me.
If? This is accurate. It would show. That the night was completely staged. Garrett & company plus. All the eye witnesses mostly friends. Conspired together. To fake Billy's death. Honestly that is plausible. Not saying it happened. But I see love one's doing such a act.
@@WildWestExtravaganza Not saying that this happened. Just that it's a possibility. If? Pat did let Billy go. If Billy did come out of hiding. The Kid would know. It wouldn't be just Pat. Getting stoned in the streets. All the documented eye witnesses would also be. Many of The Kid's friends and loved ones. Would also be stoned in the streets. No Bill would keep in hiding. For them. Not himself. Edit. Wasn't aware of. Billy messing with other men's wives. Husbands id Billy dead body. That totally throws a monkey wrench in the works.
Mariners winning, new Star Wars, flying back to Washington for the weekend for some salmon fishing, and a new episode of WILD WEST EXTRAVAGANZA? Best golden birthday week I could have asked for. THANKS JOSH💪🏽
@@godwarrior3403 yep she went in the smoker. I caught 4 that day and this one in particular was barehanded with the help of a buddy😆 I’ll never forget it she just surfaced right next to my knee and my buddy and I were like stink on shit lol. I grabbed her by the gills and bud wrangled her tail.
I don't know what I believe I do know Pat Garrett had shot the wrong Man twice before and there's nothing to say that he couldn't have made the same mistake yet again. That being said Billy had a sixth sense that saved him over and over and over again it just seems highly unlikely that he would wander around barefoot with a butcher knife in his hand when they were strangers on the ranch and he knew there were strangers on the ranch whoever the person was he talked to them. That being said I can't in good faith believe that that was Billy the kid he would have been much more cautious especially with strangers. Plus I believe the Mexican that was not an outlaw whose house Billy stayed at he said Billy was satisfied eating beans and tortillas because there were strangers over there but the other man whoever he was said he wanted meat. Billy suggested that he stay put and eat beans and tortillas warning him that they were strangers in the area and he said the man was determined to have some meat. Garrett plugged him he plugged the man that was not wanted he covered it up because it could have been his head in a noose to me that seems far more likely than Billy was roaming around stupidly with strangers and got plugged.
You present a compelling case, and you are a great speaker. Yet, there are still many unanswered questions that will probably never be answered in our time. Great job.
As a casual wild west historian and character actor, I absolutely love your podcast. Well-researched and your delivery is both interesting and entertaining. Keep up the great work, Josh!
You referred to the Butch Cassidy thing on the last episode. I would be damn interested in more on that whole bugaboo. Can't believe I finally found a way to use the word bugaboo.
I really like your style.👍 Your straight forward narrative, is like having a talk with an old friend over a beer or two. Informative, relaxed, and always entertaining to boot. Thanks for doing this podcast. 😁
For many years I believed that Billy the Kid survived that day. After hearing this, I have flipped the other way. Many thanks :) One thing I'm sure we can all agree on - the Kid was a fascinating character and will continue to be the subject of many conversations way into the future.
You can't talk about the old west ever without bringing people like Billy the kid, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday ect ect ect up in that conversation. So yeah the kid will be a part of our American history
The Man Pat Garrett shot was not Billy The Kid. The Kid specifically said he would die with his boots on, this Man was in his socks. My theory is the Kid escaped to South America on the British Steamer Herminus with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. The Kid worked on their ranch in Patagonia but Etta Place took a shine to him and the Kid had to skin out. He wound up in Coloraldo where, you guessed it, he founded the clothing company "Patagonia". Every girl in Coloraldo who refuses to wear make-up wears one of Billy's jackets or pullovers. Now I did hear that the Man Garrett shot was wearing bright red socks with Christmas trim and small gold bells around the ankles. And I am aware that John King Fisher did gift Billy the aforementioned socks. So I could be wrong. I have no idea why nobody wants to let Billy The Kid die in their imaginations. He has some kinda hold on people. Stealing laundry and being small enough to shimmy up a fireplace and into the pages and pages of history well heck even now it's hard not to like the Kid.
Much obliged for the quality content you keep churning out here Pardner. I've always been extremely interested in both the historical accounts of the Old West, as well as the wealth of stories and tall tales that come from that time period. So you can imagine I was pretty damn happy to stumble across your channel a while back, as its just the kind of content that I truly can't seem to get enough of. So I'm extending a big thanks to you Josh for all your hard work, dedication and your passion for that colorful time in our history that we all love so much. Many thanks and keep up the incredible work.
Great episode! Thanks, Josh! I hope that lovers of the Wild West will find your channel and subscribe to help you keep these great and very entertaining stories alive for generations to come! I look forward to your next video, but in the meantime, I will continue to view your archived videos! Happy trails!
When I was a kid I would stay with my grandfather on weekends growing up. There wasn't much to do so I would go into his things and explore. He had a very large wild wild west book collection with the fronts having a circle cut out showing a picture of one outlaw featured in said book. Large and brown I believe they were. I would always come back to read the Billy the Kid one for some reason. Id ask him questions and I remember to this day him telling me the picture of billy was mirrored. Then I would watch his young guns movie on repeat 😂. To this day the story of Billy the kid still brings me that excitement my PupPup/grandfather was so happy to share with me. I will always remember this. I miss my grandfather very much. We were pals
Congrats on the move, and congrats on having the cajones to make this move. I'll be joining Into History and supporting you brother! I admire your courage
Billy was an escape artis on par with hudini..that boy had more tricks up his sleeve than david Copperfield. If time travel is invented this one of my top ten spots to stop..
I just found out a week or so ago that there was a guy in New Mexico at the time of Billy the kid called Brushy Bill. He had a minor part in the Jennings disappearance. If that Brushy Bill is the same Brushy Bill Roberts that claimed to be Bill The Kid around 1950 would explain how he knew so many details about the Kid. Hopefully somebody will research that a bit better.
@ConservativeKirbyXIcKXI Not really. He was 92. Have you read "Alias Billy The Kid". Bill Roberts never talked about being Billy The Kid until surviving outlaws and witnesses said he was alive. Bill Roberts had at least a dozen stab wounds and 6 places where he had been shot. I don't know if it's him or not. I want to believe he was the Kid. Read the book if you get a chance. Lots of pictures and history. Also, the book is the basis for the upcoming movie Guns 3: Alias Billy The Kid (Emilio is returning).
I think these stories passed down by generations are just that, stories. Either to have a story to tell or possibly to defend Garrett’s reputation. My great grandparents knew Jesse James. Sure there are stories. One thing is for certain they were always fun to listen too and fun to re-tell. I’m 51 now the youngest of the generation of grandchildren and my grandparents were well into their 80’s still telling stories. My grandfather was born in 1894, his father in 1860 and myself in 1972. My point is memories fade. One thing was for certain they were fun to listen and re tell.
I previously held the belief that people in the past cherished photographs depicting notorious deceased outlaws. However, your explanation regarding the scarcity of photographers during that era has provided me with a new perspective that makes perfect sense.
@@Voodoodollgaming oh yah sure thing only problem is that who took the photos of other incidents in that area at that time, the whole story is fishy fishy fishy what the heck heck heck is really going on lol
I've always believed Billy the Kid died July 14, 1881, because if he hadn't, he couldn't have laid low. He would've shown up somewhere else. That said, the research absolutely backs up this assumption of Billy's nature.
Great episode Josh. I love that you covered this thoroughly in multiple episodes with different content in each one and from different angles. I think somebody would be hard-pressed to accuse you of coming to the conclusion that you have blindly. Congrats on the new gig. I hope it works out well for you. I’ll cancel my Patreon and join into history sometime this week. Btw, did you ever get the podcast up that you talked about for tips and hints in starting a podcast?
The name Billy the Kid was killed.... William Henry Bonney was not killed. He let out of New Mexico and left the name Billy the Kid buried on a tombstone.
Miss the intro but if this is how you grow your channel, I wish you all the best luck. Love the show and keep up the good work. I agree, this thing has been belabored for too long with William.
Catching the end today in my spare time. You make an excellent case for the evidence itself rather than focusing on other factors. Very good video......Shirley. 👍
No one that infamous would have not had a death photo , far lesser known outlaws tracked to far further out un the wilderness had death photos , NONE were rushed into the ground that fast As for the witnesses well billy was well liked by those in fort sumner , all were apalled at garrett in the same way all would cover for billy like Garrett did so he could live out his days Many many families around that area even to this day state garrett did not kill billy , i think ill stand with those that had this story handed down to them , than the opinions of all these so called experts that simply follow eachothers so called facts , mostly made up facts , like New york as his birthplace ! That is not a fact its an assumption, a probabilty ! hellit took years for those experts to even realise billy was right handed ! Regardless ill state again you dont need to know much about billy or garrett all you have to do is read the story of how garrett killed billy and use common sense to realise none of it added up !!
There’s talks out there that the tin photo of Billy the Kid was actually him propped up and it was a death photo so who knows if he survived if he was killed we probably will never know
@@davidball699 yeah but nobody has any sources for that talk, it's just an internet rumor. We actually have the first hand eyewitness accounts of people who were there when the photo was taken.
Love the channel. I subbed a long while back before you started becoming famous. I can't imagine the amount of time it takes to not only prepare for each podcast, but to research each topic. Keep up the great work!
It's common sense. The base of it all boils down to Billy is basically a 21yo reckless American kid. Whenever he's captured he comes back to sumner and starts doing the same thing i.e cattle rustling and gangster stuff. All 21yo guys are basically immature. They want money n women. He cannot just mastermind faking of his death on a drop of a dime. And just disappear forever from lives of his loved ones. Never even visiting once, not even in disguise? Come on. The people who cook this conspiracy grew up in modern day covert spying era post ww2. They will never understand things were simple back then. Billy was a nobody and he died a nobody, albeit he is remembered as somebody of far greater stature than he actually was. It's a form of mental sickness to treat him like a legend
I read in a book long ago, that Pat, in order to collect the 500 dollar reward, had to summon a deputy from a nearby town to affirm that the Kid was dead and question all witnesses. The interesting part was that the description of the kid. Was said to be taller, with a full beard and darker skin. Billy never wore a beard. He was small of stature and had light skin. I have no clue as to the title of the book, because it was read in a library. It caught my attention because beside telling the known facts about Billy´s life, it also covered the possibility of Billy not being shot at all, hence the above description from the deputy.
I think Pat Garrett was dull witted man and Billy was bright. If a switcheroo happened it was a Billy the Kid tricking Garrett...which could have happened. Garrett had a twitchy finger and was scared out of his mind already mistakenly killing two of Billys friends.
Here’s my thought. None of us really know. He may have faked his death, he may have actually been killed. Who knows. He was interesting enough to still be talked about to this day, and that says all you need to know.
So Pat Garrett shot an unarmed person in a pitch black room and actually didn't miss and only fire one shot and how would he even know what room he would be in.there are way too man unanswered questions surrounding this.
As a boy, I traveled with my Dad from Colorado to Los Angles then Bakersfield, California on the Union Paficific. We visited with some old friends of his who were Lawmen from the old days. They would recant stories of chasing outlaws across the desert. One of the tales were of chasing Billy. Friends of Garrett, they mentioned of the "agreement", between Garrett and Billy. To plan Billy's death at Pete's. Who saw his body go into the box then into the ground? Billy wanted to go home peacefully. What if this were true?
i don't even know if it's even that far, but just the fact that he was dropped the way he was is so unceremonious we want something more, and there just isn't. for example, like the video mentions, multiple people were there that knew and were allied with billy, friends, possible girlfriend, etc. in a time when almost everyone was at least minimally armed, surrounded by allies of the deceased who had no problem harboring outlaws at minimum, we all kinda assume SOMEBODY would have shot Pat Garrett or that Garrett would have been mobbed by billy's friends once they realized what had happened. the idea that Garrett shot him alone in the dark "Like a Coward" and NOBODY there cut Garrett down in revenge, doesn't vibe with our ethics. which side you take, whether you agree with Billy's criminality or don't, is irrelevent. but the unceremonious and cowardly "Murder" amongst "Friends" with NO retaliation just sits wrong with us. if billy's allies would have killed garrett on the spot, or if the pro- and anti-billy the kid sides of the witnesses had quarrelled and it turned into a brief incident of hostility, HELL, if there was a Light in the room and it at least felt like Billy had a fair chance in the whole thing, we wouldn't have this issue. we don't need billy to escape/survive, we just need some form of ethical closure and billy was done so dirty that him getting away is the most satisfying alternate story in that regard. if the lights were on and billy got off a shot we wouldn't care, but the fact that THE Billy the Kid, known for being a fast gun and a squirrelly clever sort and inflated to a legend by the papers, was ambushed in the dark and put down like a lame horse, just doesn't feel "Right" ethically or thematically to us, and leaves us needing more.
Brushy bill just looks taller , his torso is longer , Billy’s head has a tilt to it , brushy bill looks like he has a little Mexican blood in him or spanish just a tad ???
Why won’t New Mexico release the body, his mother’s body, and get Texas to release William “Brushy Bill” Roberts bodies for DNA analysis. At that time they liked to post a picture of the body in the newspaper.
I can't speak for either state but just my own thoughts? Why would they allow for the graves of real people to be dug up just to quench a morbid curiosity? Brushy Bill has been proven to be a fraud...we know he wasn't Billy the Kid. And it's next to certain that Billy is buried at Fort Sumner. Why dig up real human bodies just to placate a small amount of conspiracy theorists?
There is enough information available from the other camp that says _we_ isn't an as inclusive group as you state. Without the DNA we will never make an absolute determination.@@WildWestExtravaganza
Did any of the witnesses ever see the infamous pic of Billy and say that’s him ??? So that pic may not be Billy , and they took a pic of the james brothers why not take a pic of Billy ??? So frustrating
Yes, Paulita Maxwell commented on it and even said that it was taken in front of Beaver Smith's saloon. She said it wasn't a very good photo and that Billy didn't normally dress like that when he was in town.
I believe George Coe also mentioned the picture. Just acquired his book, not yet read. But that's what I have heard. Worth noting, the famous tintype appeared in print twice before Billy the Kid died. While the ability to directly reproduce it in print was not available, a woodcut engraving that is obviously taken from the tintype was printed in both March and June in issues of the Boston Illustrated Police News. It may be that Garrett had a copy from the Kid after the Stinking Spring capture, but that is just a guess. The IPN may have had a different source, I just think Garrett is the most likely. We know 4 copies existed, only the Dedrick copy surviving to modern day. Worth noting too, publishers in 1881 new that a tintype gave a reversed image. The published woodcut engraving has the rifle in Billy's left hand and the revolver on his right hip, which are correct.
@@WildWestExtravaganza Yes sir, I saw you point that out further down in these comments, after I posted the above. I've got digital copies of those issues, but have not made time to read the text. I had not seen info on where they acquired it, so I am glad to learn something on that. Your efforts here are greatly appreciated, sir!
Don't worry about people who can't listen and assimilate information to learn more truth. They can't stand to be wrong or to learn anything they don't know. You do great josh. They want billy to live just like Elvis.
I think Hollywood has help give the myths of Billy the Kid longevity. People will continue to believe the myths because of movies like Young Guns and its sequel as fact instead of looking at records. I trust historians more than Hollywood screenwriters and the word of Conman
Pat Garrett was good friends with Billy. Most people stated that it was not the kid years later. At the time, they said it was, but they were his friends and were covering it up, so Billy could get away. Most people that live at Fort Sumner loved Billy the Kid, he helped them he gave them money so he was the community's friend.
You're right about a few things. Pat Garrett and Billy, at one point, had been friends. And most people at Fort Sumner liked the Kid. However, "most people stated that it was not the kid years later" is not true. In fact, not a single person from Fort Sumner ever said that.
Known fact that him and Pat were friends...would you shoot your friend dead without a word to him. Aside from all the other evidence pointing to the kid not being killed on that day, this is paramont to me. Not many people would shoot their friend.
This is anecdotal but I personally know two people that were shot by their friends, one of them dead. Relationships change. Sometimes even family members kill each other. But that said, there is no evidence to the Kid not being killed that day. This is a common misconception, literally all credible evidence states that he was indeed killed.
Great job! If it wasn't for me personally seeing Billy, the kid working the cash register at McDonald's today, I would say that I agree with you. However, I did ask him if Pat Garrett killed him, and he laughed and said it was not his good friend Pat, but in fact, Mayor McCheese that shot him in the Mcnuggets.
@@WildWestExtravaganza Haha really I didn't know that funny. Like you, I want Brushy Bill to be Billy the Kid so bad but the reality is he's just not. But if they make Young Guns 3 about Brushy Bill I'll still be the first one in line to watch it
I don't always agree with the way you deliver the facts....but I can't argue with the accuracy of your facts. Great video and I look forward to your next video. Reguards
A great podcaster he’d be . It’s interesting that Jesse Evans led Morrison to Brushy Bill. Also, old Doc Scurlock never said a word …Now, when y’all gonna talk about J Frank Dalton’s rope burn scars from being hung as a kid ? Or that one armed soldier that was dug up at Jesse James grave or was it that two folks buried there one in a box and one not in a box?
Attended college in Portales, NM. Fort Sumner is a short drive west. Billy The Kids grave is still clearly marked. I attended Grad school in Las Cruces. I lived just a mile north on 70 where Garrett was killed.
Nice closer 😂 that is why I love the content. Love you Josh. Can't wait for butch Cassidy. I'll donate as soon as I can. Thanks and keep up the good work.
If there was any shred of doubt that Garret killed the kid, no money would have been dispersed. And, on top of that, ask yourself if a whole town could've kept the secret that the Kid's death was faked. No way IMHO. Great job ! 👍✌😎
Yea, because the government has never and will never pay someone who fooled them. That's a pretty weak argument. The whole town didn't see the body, only a hand full of people had to keep the secret. I spent two years (1985 - 1987) and my own money doing my own research most of that time was spent in New Mexico. I like Josh love history my favorite time being the old west. I have a special interest in the Lincoln County War, Pat & Billy because my great grandfather lived in the west Texas boarder towns during the time period. This is not a dig on Josh or his work and it's not a dig on you. My interest was what part and how involved my great grandfather was in all of the goings on. I really don't care if Pat killed Billy, I just don't believed he did. Thanks for you time and happy trails!🤠
@@rongreen4536 First of all, it was more than a "handful" of people. But for the sake of argument, lets say it was. If you know anything about small towns, where everybody knows everybody, if more than three people know something, the whole town will know eventually. Second,$500 back then was a small fortune, you might want to research what $500 dollars then, would be worth today. I think my argument is stronger than you think. Of course, we both have the right to our own opinions and I will even concede you may very well be right, But I doubt it. Keep lovin' history my friend!!👍✌😎
@@WildWestExtravaganza Good morning Josh, It seams we have come full circle. You did a great job making your argument! I don't agree with you, having said that, you did a great job. You are a smart guy doing the best he can do in the limited time you have on the podcast. I'm going to have a few questions for you in a day are two. My dog died last night in her sleep and that's a big deal to me.😞 Thanks Ron
Thanks for the detailed research bud. I have been Pro Brushy Bill forever simply for the what if factor but also because I could not find such detailed accounts as you out forth. Hats off to you. I still like to hear the conspiracy theories for fun, though 😅 😊 good luck on the full time channel!
Ok, you've made adecent case for Garret but what are your thoughts on Paulita Maxwell's child born after the "Kid" was shot? From the photos taken he is a dead ringer for the "Kid"
Hmmm, I haven't seen those photos but I don't think we can say anyone's a dead ringer due to us just having one photo of the Kid...and it's a photo that was really bad according to people who knew him. I'm certainly not opposed to Billy having kids, though.
Usally dont watch things like this because most people's storys have alot of holes in them but listening to you debunk myths and bring iut the fascinating truth. You got a new follow now if you will excuse me i have more episodes to binge 😅 thank you for this channel 🙏
i always think that pat garrett shot the wrong guy passed him off as billy and let him get away,being friends probably telling him go somewhere out of the country.the witnesses saying it was billy saying it was him,knowing that it wasnt him also went along with it,so they can take the heat off billy and have the law stop looking for him.i dont think brushy bill was him,probably knew billy or someone close to him and got all the facts from them.
New sub here. Only just found your channel. Loved the amount of research you had done and how you presented it. Job well done. As a Brit, I have always loved the wild west... Even back in the late 80's I tried to write an old wild west novel, but never got to finish it as I hit the proverbial wall. Over the years I eventually lost all my research notes as well as the manuscript.
@@WildWestExtravaganza You're welcome and thanks too. I never did recover from the writer's block I had. I guess that's why I decided to eventually narrate creepypastas instead. Although I am also about to start 2 other channels, one is a reaction channel and the other is a true crime one; historical and modern.
Please respond to this question: I’ve seen an old VHS recording of an ancestor of De Silva claiming that the assassin hid under a bench & shot BTK with a shotgun. What do you think about this account? Thanks for the epic content & keep up the great work!
I'll try to answer. I think it's a very interesting story but this is exactly what I meant by anecdotal. Just because something is anecdotal does not mean it's not true, but it does mean there's no way to verify it. The personal connection he had with someone who was there is very intriguing but it also directly contradicts the other statements. I'm not saying that Pat didn't blast Billy with a shotgun but I am saying none of the first hand accounts mentioned it but there were several men who claimed Billy was shot in the chest from Garrett's pistol.
Im not sure if Billy the Kid actually got killed the night , but even if he wasn’t killed , I don’t believe Brushy Bill was actually him . They say Brushy was around 20 years younger than what Billy would be.
Well my Friends most Artists and Philosophers are born posthumously. Now I stole that from Nietzsche, but you can add Billy the Kid into the mix. In simpler terms a Southner can easily understand, is Elvis worth more alive or dead? The latter. Van Gogh was broke and chopped off his ear. Now his paintings are worth million and he is worm dirt. Billy had no idea of his future fame. I hope he is looking down and scratching his head and saying hey, thats not me playing croquet in that photo!
@@WildWestExtravaganza De nada Amigo. I left you a vm about the mass hangings in my home town. I think we hold the record at 41 in a day. Not single black, just Unionist. Nobody in Gville likes to talk about it until this day.
I encourage people who watch this video to read Alias Billy The Kid. It's about Bill Roberts and the kid. It's also the basis for the upcoming film Guns 3: Alias Billy The Kid. It's a fun read, but I wouldn't take it as gospel.
A couple of years ago I began my Billy the Kid journey believing that it is very possible that BTK was not killed July 14th 1881. Your podcast is a decent part of why I now believe Garrett killed the Kid on that fateful day. I’m glad I found your show and have enjoyed many other stories you’ve shared.
That's the mystery. I don't think Garret killed him. They were friends. I do believe Billy and him conspired due to Pats political ambitions. Billy went to Mexico. It will always be debated. I believe the true answers lay in Mexico.
Thank you for making that step Josh!! You are a great researcher, all of your work is awesome man. I haven't missed anything you have done. Even the bbpc day's. I loved you then! I'm always waiting for your next piece. I'll be following the into history podcast too. Good luck to you, I think you will be just fine.
I started rewatching Deadwood this month and just watched your video on Al. Have you ever heard of a place called "Stanton" in Western AZ? It's named for a particularly evil man of a similar profile. You might like the story for your channel
So two things...Number 1: Congrats on making this your full time job Josh. You have a knack for it and the truths of history that can be painful. Number 2: For all those that think Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid can stick this episode in their pipe and smoke it
Ask yourself if Billy's death was a hoax why did no one in Fort Sumner ever say it was. None of them ever claimed Pat Garrett did not kill the Kid even after Pat's death. They cared much for the kid so would have loved to have thrown dirt on Pat by letting the cat out of the bag. Billy's girl friend claimed Pat killed the kid as did Devulina Maxwell who also loved the Kid. So why would any of them lie.
This is the first time I’ve ever heard a story from your channel. I absolutely love it. You absolutely have a knack for story telling and deliver facts and research to a T. Instant subscriber!
I must say that youve done a great job. Youve changed my opinion on Bushy and my opinion on Garrett being a coward. Do i wish Brushy was Billy the Kid? Hell yeah i do but ive been convinced other wise.
@WildWestExtravaganza so it was a fair chunk of cash, a pretty good incentive to collect on it if Garret was having money problems. Thanks for the reply, you do a great podcast, all the best for the new venture.
Love their pod cast ignore the criticism your damn Good at telling it like it is It’s a Very Interesting an Ya make me laugh Keep Up The Bad A** work!! “Tammy”
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What say you? Case closed or is there still a way that Billy survived and lived to be an old man?
I’m glad ur doing it full time now , wish u the best. Ill try to join into history not sure where to find it but I’ll check out the podcast sites and look for it
Well it not likely but there's always a way, everyone would have to be either in on it or quick thinking take advantage of a situation where pat did kill the wrong man, wanted to get out of it so him and the deputies lie and say its billy who dyed his skin brown. Billy's friends in turn see the situation and go along with it, giving Billy a chance to fake his death. Thats the only way I could see him living past that night. Now what are the odds of that? Probably about the same as getting struck by lightning three times on the tip of the dong. Id have to agree that he was killed that night, as much as I'd like to think he lived on.
Would be one of those rare cases where an entire town actually did conspire to do something like this. That said this isnt tricking people into fishing far away from the best spots or convincing people drop bears will eat them.
People just want Billy to have survived. Doesn't mean he did. I also highly doubt Pat gave him any chance to throw up his hands.
It's always a possibility. Memories change over the years. But you will never know for sure. Just like it's always possibility Hitler made it out of Germany.
I would like to point out that when I was a teenager I got to know a good friend of my fathers, Tom Garrett, great nephew of Pat Garrett. Tom knew Pat well. Tom told me that Pat told him that he did not kill his friend Billy the kid. Take that for what you want, I’ll believe Tom, he had no reason to lie to me.
I appreciate the story.
If? This is accurate. It would show. That the night was completely staged. Garrett & company plus. All the eye witnesses mostly friends. Conspired together. To fake Billy's death.
Honestly that is plausible. Not saying it happened. But I see love one's doing such a act.
@@WildWestExtravaganza
Not saying that this happened.
Just that it's a possibility.
If? Pat did let Billy go. If Billy did come out of hiding. The Kid would know. It wouldn't be just Pat. Getting stoned in the streets. All the documented eye witnesses would also be. Many of The Kid's friends and loved ones. Would also be stoned in the streets.
No Bill would keep in hiding. For them. Not himself.
Edit. Wasn't aware of. Billy messing with other men's wives. Husbands id Billy dead body. That totally throws a monkey wrench in the works.
@@mynameisnoname482Jesus wouldn't break in your house and raid the fridge!!!!
In Billy the Kid
Mariners winning, new Star Wars, flying back to Washington for the weekend for some salmon fishing, and a new episode of WILD WEST EXTRAVAGANZA? Best golden birthday week I could have asked for. THANKS JOSH💪🏽
Happy birthday
🥳
Thank you and thank you🤠
Nice catch man. Happy birthday. Hope you punched that fish. Looks punchable.
@@godwarrior3403 yep she went in the smoker. I caught 4 that day and this one in particular was barehanded with the help of a buddy😆 I’ll never forget it she just surfaced right next to my knee and my buddy and I were like stink on shit lol. I grabbed her by the gills and bud wrangled her tail.
I don't know what I believe I do know Pat Garrett had shot the wrong Man twice before and there's nothing to say that he couldn't have made the same mistake yet again. That being said Billy had a sixth sense that saved him over and over and over again it just seems highly unlikely that he would wander around barefoot with a butcher knife in his hand when they were strangers on the ranch and he knew there were strangers on the ranch whoever the person was he talked to them. That being said I can't in good faith believe that that was Billy the kid he would have been much more cautious especially with strangers. Plus I believe the Mexican that was not an outlaw whose house Billy stayed at he said Billy was satisfied eating beans and tortillas because there were strangers over there but the other man whoever he was said he wanted meat. Billy suggested that he stay put and eat beans and tortillas warning him that they were strangers in the area and he said the man was determined to have some meat. Garrett plugged him he plugged the man that was not wanted he covered it up because it could have been his head in a noose to me that seems far more likely than Billy was roaming around stupidly with strangers and got plugged.
Pat Garrett claimed it for TWO reasons.
1. The 'Reward' money
2. Notoriety--PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
Facts are no one knows anything....
@@ShakespereRambulaof course no one would know pat Garrett today
I agree 👍 💯
You present a compelling case, and you are a great speaker. Yet, there are still many unanswered questions that will probably never be answered in our time. Great job.
As a casual wild west historian and character actor, I absolutely love your podcast. Well-researched and your delivery is both interesting and entertaining. Keep up the great work, Josh!
Wow, thank you!
You referred to the Butch Cassidy thing on the last episode. I would be damn interested in more on that whole bugaboo.
Can't believe I finally found a way to use the word bugaboo.
I did an episode on it a lonnnnng time ago but it's only available on Patreon
Now you can work on using boogaloo!!👍
I really like your style.👍 Your straight forward narrative, is like having a talk with an old friend over a beer or two. Informative, relaxed, and always entertaining to boot.
Thanks for doing this podcast. 😁
Thank you for listening
For many years I believed that Billy the Kid survived that day. After hearing this, I have flipped the other way. Many thanks :) One thing I'm sure we can all agree on - the Kid was a fascinating character and will continue to be the subject of many conversations way into the future.
Agreed!
You can't talk about the old west ever without bringing people like Billy the kid, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday ect ect ect up in that conversation. So yeah the kid will be a part of our American history
He DID SURVIVE. A man came forward in 1954 and PROVED IT!
HE WAS Billy the Kid. And it wasn't just 'here-say,' he PROVED IT!
I believe the whole town was saving the kid.
It was a myth he reinvented himself as brushy Bill lol
The Man Pat Garrett shot was not Billy The Kid.
The Kid specifically said he would die with his boots on, this Man was in his socks.
My theory is the Kid escaped to South America on the British Steamer Herminus with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
The Kid worked on their ranch in Patagonia but Etta Place took a shine to him and the Kid had to skin out.
He wound up in Coloraldo where, you guessed it, he founded the clothing company "Patagonia".
Every girl in Coloraldo who refuses to wear make-up wears one of Billy's jackets or pullovers.
Now I did hear that the Man Garrett shot was wearing bright red socks with Christmas trim and small gold bells around the ankles. And I am aware that John King Fisher did gift Billy the aforementioned socks.
So I could be wrong.
I have no idea why nobody wants to let Billy The Kid die in their imaginations.
He has some kinda hold on people. Stealing laundry and being small enough to shimmy up a fireplace and into the pages and pages of history well heck even now it's hard not to like the Kid.
We love our legends
That little “you can go fuck yourself” caught me off guard 😂😂😂
Much obliged for the quality content you keep churning out here Pardner. I've always been extremely interested in both the historical accounts of the Old West, as well as the wealth of stories and tall tales that come from that time period. So you can imagine I was pretty damn happy to stumble across your channel a while back, as its just the kind of content that I truly can't seem to get enough of. So I'm extending a big thanks to you Josh for all your hard work, dedication and your passion for that colorful time in our history that we all love so much. Many thanks and keep up the incredible work.
I appreciate it
Great episode! Thanks, Josh! I hope that lovers of the Wild West will find your channel and subscribe to help you keep these great and very entertaining stories alive for generations to come! I look forward to your next video, but in the meantime, I will continue to view your archived videos! Happy trails!
I hope so too
When I was a kid I would stay with my grandfather on weekends growing up. There wasn't much to do so I would go into his things and explore. He had a very large wild wild west book collection with the fronts having a circle cut out showing a picture of one outlaw featured in said book. Large and brown I believe they were. I would always come back to read the Billy the Kid one for some reason. Id ask him questions and I remember to this day him telling me the picture of billy was mirrored. Then I would watch his young guns movie on repeat 😂. To this day the story of Billy the kid still brings me that excitement my PupPup/grandfather was so happy to share with me. I will always remember this. I miss my grandfather very much. We were pals
@@Shannon_Dobbs Thank you so much I just looked it up and found them. You are the man.
Congrats on the move, and congrats on having the cajones to make this move. I'll be joining Into History and supporting you brother! I admire your courage
Thanks buddy
Billy was an escape artis on par with hudini..that boy had more tricks up his sleeve than david Copperfield. If time travel is invented this one of my top ten spots to stop..
I just found out a week or so ago that there was a guy in New Mexico at the time of Billy the kid called Brushy Bill. He had a minor part in the Jennings disappearance. If that Brushy Bill is the same Brushy Bill Roberts that claimed to be Bill The Kid around 1950 would explain how he knew so many details about the Kid. Hopefully somebody will research that a bit better.
Brushy was a teenager living in Hopkins county, Texas when Fountain went missing.
@ConservativeKirbyXIcKXI Not really. He was 92. Have you read "Alias Billy The Kid". Bill Roberts never talked about being Billy The Kid until surviving outlaws and witnesses said he was alive. Bill Roberts had at least a dozen stab wounds and 6 places where he had been shot. I don't know if it's him or not. I want to believe he was the Kid. Read the book if you get a chance. Lots of pictures and history. Also, the book is the basis for the upcoming movie Guns 3: Alias Billy The Kid (Emilio is returning).
0% chance. Just totally ridiculous.
Brushy bill Roberts was Billy the kid!!!
Brushy Bill, the notorious liar? Him?
I think these stories passed down by generations are just that, stories. Either to have a story to tell or possibly to defend Garrett’s reputation. My great grandparents knew Jesse James. Sure there are stories. One thing is for certain they were always fun to listen too and fun to re-tell. I’m 51 now the youngest of the generation of grandchildren and my grandparents were well into their 80’s still telling stories. My grandfather was born in 1894, his father in 1860 and myself in 1972. My point is memories fade. One thing was for certain they were fun to listen and re tell.
I really love this channel. I've turned more than one friend onto your narrations. Good luck with your endeavor
Awesome, thank you!
Same
I fully think Pat Garrett did indeed shoot and kill Billy.
I previously held the belief that people in the past cherished photographs depicting notorious deceased outlaws. However, your explanation regarding the scarcity of photographers during that era has provided me with a new perspective that makes perfect sense.
@@Voodoodollgaming oh yah sure thing only problem is that who took the photos of other incidents in that area at that time, the whole story is fishy fishy fishy what the heck heck heck is really going on lol
@user-qh9cz5xo7jkeithkucera Too many Chinese whispers now, i do not think we will ever find out the truth.
You sold me Shirley..😊 Great series. Glad you are full time.🎉🎉
See ya next week.
Thanks Scott
@@WildWestExtravaganza did you send me the sub stack subscription? 😘😄✌
Billy changed his name to old Henry and moved to Kansas and became a farmer. My sources are CNN and MSNBC
I knew it!
Ahhh...reliable historical sources to be sure!
Must be true then if you heard it there . BS about Brushy
I've always believed Billy the Kid died July 14, 1881, because if he hadn't, he couldn't have laid low. He would've shown up somewhere else.
That said, the research absolutely backs up this assumption of Billy's nature.
Yeah, I tend to agree
Great episode Josh. I love that you covered this thoroughly in multiple episodes with different content in each one and from different angles. I think somebody would be hard-pressed to accuse you of coming to the conclusion that you have blindly.
Congrats on the new gig. I hope it works out well for you. I’ll cancel my Patreon and join into history sometime this week.
Btw, did you ever get the podcast up that you talked about for tips and hints in starting a podcast?
Thanks! I did not but if you have any questions please feel free to email me
The name Billy the Kid was killed.... William Henry Bonney was not killed. He let out of New Mexico and left the name Billy the Kid buried on a tombstone.
Ok but Henry McCarty was definitely killed
Miss the intro but if this is how you grow your channel, I wish you all the best luck. Love the show and keep up the good work. I agree, this thing has been belabored for too long with William.
I just didnt use the intro this week. Was supposed to be a really short episode.
@@WildWestExtravaganza if you have literally anything else going on, and I know you do, it's not easy doing a full time anything.
Catching the end today in my spare time. You make an excellent case for the evidence itself rather than focusing on other factors. Very good video......Shirley. 👍
Ha thanks
Billy the kid was the story of the century and by not having his picture taken with the Kid tells me that Billy survived and escaped once again
I disagree but I respect your opinion
Wrong
No one that infamous would have not had a death photo , far lesser known outlaws tracked to far further out un the wilderness had death photos , NONE were rushed into the ground that fast
As for the witnesses well billy was well liked by those in fort sumner , all were apalled at garrett in the same way all would cover for billy like Garrett did so he could live out his days
Many many families around that area even to this day state garrett did not kill billy , i think ill stand with those that had this story handed down to them , than the opinions of all these so called experts that simply follow eachothers so called facts , mostly made up facts , like New york as his birthplace ! That is not a fact its an assumption, a probabilty ! hellit took years for those experts to even realise billy was right handed !
Regardless ill state again you dont need to know much about billy or garrett all you have to do is read the story of how garrett killed billy and use common sense to realise none of it added up !!
There’s talks out there that the tin photo of Billy the Kid was actually him propped up and it was a death photo so who knows if he survived if he was killed we probably will never know
@@davidball699 yeah but nobody has any sources for that talk, it's just an internet rumor. We actually have the first hand eyewitness accounts of people who were there when the photo was taken.
Billy's legend is extremely fascinating, even if he died that day his legend of riding into the sunset will live on.
Agreed
"Selsa Baca?!" "You'll have to bear-grease the walls to get that fat pig in here!"
Love the channel. I subbed a long while back before you started becoming famous. I can't imagine the amount of time it takes to not only prepare for each podcast, but to research each topic. Keep up the great work!
Haha I'm far from famous I assure you! Glad you've stucl around!
It's common sense. The base of it all boils down to Billy is basically a 21yo reckless American kid. Whenever he's captured he comes back to sumner and starts doing the same thing i.e cattle rustling and gangster stuff. All 21yo guys are basically immature. They want money n women. He cannot just mastermind faking of his death on a drop of a dime. And just disappear forever from lives of his loved ones. Never even visiting once, not even in disguise? Come on. The people who cook this conspiracy grew up in modern day covert spying era post ww2. They will never understand things were simple back then. Billy was a nobody and he died a nobody, albeit he is remembered as somebody of far greater stature than he actually was. It's a form of mental sickness to treat him like a legend
I read in a book long ago, that Pat, in order to collect the 500 dollar reward, had to summon a deputy from a nearby town to affirm that the Kid was dead and question all witnesses. The interesting part was that the description of the kid. Was said to be taller, with a full beard and darker skin. Billy never wore a beard. He was small of stature and had light skin. I have no clue as to the title of the book, because it was read in a library. It caught my attention because beside telling the known facts about Billy´s life, it also covered the possibility of Billy not being shot at all, hence the above description from the deputy.
I think Pat Garrett was dull witted man and Billy was bright. If a switcheroo happened it was a Billy the Kid tricking Garrett...which could have happened. Garrett had a twitchy finger and was scared out of his mind already mistakenly killing two of Billys friends.
Here’s my thought. None of us really know. He may have faked his death, he may have actually been killed. Who knows. He was interesting enough to still be talked about to this day, and that says all you need to know.
You had me going as looking at the ad for your content I thought you became a brushy supporter, thankfully you didn't go mad, great stuff again.
So Pat Garrett shot an unarmed person in a pitch black room and actually didn't miss and only fire one shot and how would he even know what room he would be in.there are way too man unanswered questions surrounding this.
I don't know how pitch black it was and Billy was allegedly armed. I agree, lots of questions.
As a boy, I traveled with my Dad from Colorado to Los Angles then Bakersfield, California on the Union Paficific. We visited with some old friends of his who were Lawmen from the old days.
They would recant stories of chasing outlaws across the desert.
One of the tales were of chasing Billy.
Friends of Garrett, they mentioned of the "agreement", between Garrett and Billy.
To plan Billy's death at Pete's.
Who saw his body go into the box then into the ground?
Billy wanted to go home peacefully.
What if this were true?
I think we all just really want to believe that Billy got away and lived a rich- lovely and long life after all the drama he "survived". ❤
Agreed
i don't even know if it's even that far, but just the fact that he was dropped the way he was is so unceremonious we want something more, and there just isn't.
for example, like the video mentions, multiple people were there that knew and were allied with billy, friends, possible girlfriend, etc.
in a time when almost everyone was at least minimally armed, surrounded by allies of the deceased who had no problem harboring outlaws at minimum, we all kinda assume SOMEBODY would have shot Pat Garrett or that Garrett would have been mobbed by billy's friends once they realized what had happened. the idea that Garrett shot him alone in the dark "Like a Coward" and NOBODY there cut Garrett down in revenge, doesn't vibe with our ethics. which side you take, whether you agree with Billy's criminality or don't, is irrelevent. but the unceremonious and cowardly "Murder" amongst "Friends" with NO retaliation just sits wrong with us. if billy's allies would have killed garrett on the spot, or if the pro- and anti-billy the kid sides of the witnesses had quarrelled and it turned into a brief incident of hostility, HELL, if there was a Light in the room and it at least felt like Billy had a fair chance in the whole thing, we wouldn't have this issue.
we don't need billy to escape/survive, we just need some form of ethical closure and billy was done so dirty that him getting away is the most satisfying alternate story in that regard. if the lights were on and billy got off a shot we wouldn't care, but the fact that THE Billy the Kid, known for being a fast gun and a squirrelly clever sort and inflated to a legend by the papers, was ambushed in the dark and put down like a lame horse, just doesn't feel "Right" ethically or thematically to us, and leaves us needing more.
It must be reassuring to know that you already kick ass at your new job! Keep 'em coming brother!
Remember something Pat.. you'll never be me.. you'll only be the man who shot billy the kid.
Yep
bro I love your podcast , dont change a thing
Thank you!!!
Brushy bill just looks taller , his torso is longer , Billy’s head has a tilt to it , brushy bill looks like he has a little Mexican blood in him or spanish just a tad ???
I don't know. I don't think they look alike but even if they did we can still say for certain that they weren't one and the same.
Why won’t New Mexico release the body, his mother’s body, and get Texas to release William “Brushy Bill” Roberts bodies for DNA analysis. At that time they liked to post a picture of the body in the newspaper.
I can't speak for either state but just my own thoughts? Why would they allow for the graves of real people to be dug up just to quench a morbid curiosity? Brushy Bill has been proven to be a fraud...we know he wasn't Billy the Kid. And it's next to certain that Billy is buried at Fort Sumner. Why dig up real human bodies just to placate a small amount of conspiracy theorists?
There is enough information available from the other camp that says _we_ isn't an as inclusive group as you state. Without the DNA we will never make an absolute determination.@@WildWestExtravaganza
Did any of the witnesses ever see the infamous pic of Billy and say that’s him ??? So that pic may not be Billy , and they took a pic of the james brothers why not take a pic of Billy ??? So frustrating
Yes, Paulita Maxwell commented on it and even said that it was taken in front of Beaver Smith's saloon. She said it wasn't a very good photo and that Billy didn't normally dress like that when he was in town.
I believe George Coe also mentioned the picture. Just acquired his book, not yet read. But that's what I have heard.
Worth noting, the famous tintype appeared in print twice before Billy the Kid died. While the ability to directly reproduce it in print was not available, a woodcut engraving that is obviously taken from the tintype was printed in both March and June in issues of the Boston Illustrated Police News. It may be that Garrett had a copy from the Kid after the Stinking Spring capture, but that is just a guess. The IPN may have had a different source, I just think Garrett is the most likely. We know 4 copies existed, only the Dedrick copy surviving to modern day.
Worth noting too, publishers in 1881 new that a tintype gave a reversed image. The published woodcut engraving has the rifle in Billy's left hand and the revolver on his right hip, which are correct.
@@Rollin_L yep, good info. I believe the Illustrated Police News claimed to have gotten the photo from a jail guard from Las Vegas.
@@WildWestExtravaganza Yes sir, I saw you point that out further down in these comments, after I posted the above. I've got digital copies of those issues, but have not made time to read the text. I had not seen info on where they acquired it, so I am glad to learn something on that. Your efforts here are greatly appreciated, sir!
@@Rollin_L thank you, sir
Don't worry about people who can't listen and assimilate information to learn more truth. They can't stand to be wrong or to learn anything they don't know. You do great josh. They want billy to live just like Elvis.
Why Wilson...Elvis is NOT dead; he just went home. Ask Tommy Lee Jones in Men in Black? Lol!👍
@@ExKUKicker lol 😂 I love it
Next thing you're gonna tell me that Jim Morrison is really dead too, instead of living in Africa under the name of Mr. Mojo Risin'....
@@Rollin_L ya sorry he died in that bathtub
@@Wilson-fm4lg My day is ruined. Now I am convinced that Billy the Kid, Elvis and Jim Morrison are really dead. So sad.
I think Hollywood has help give the myths of Billy the Kid longevity. People will continue to believe the myths because of movies like Young Guns and its sequel as fact instead of looking at records. I trust historians more than Hollywood screenwriters and the word of Conman
well said
Becareful, you might get alot of hate mail from the Brushy Bill clan. Lol
Might?
@@WildWestExtravaganza you probably do I take it. Lol
Pat Garrett was good friends with Billy. Most people stated that it was not the kid years later. At the time, they said it was, but they were his friends and were covering it up, so Billy could get away.
Most people that live at Fort Sumner loved Billy the Kid, he helped them he gave them money so he was the community's friend.
You're right about a few things. Pat Garrett and Billy, at one point, had been friends. And most people at Fort Sumner liked the Kid.
However, "most people stated that it was not the kid years later" is not true. In fact, not a single person from Fort Sumner ever said that.
I love your channel
Thanks!
Known fact that him and Pat were friends...would you shoot your friend dead without a word to him. Aside from all the other evidence pointing to the kid not being killed on that day, this is paramont to me. Not many people would shoot their friend.
This is anecdotal but I personally know two people that were shot by their friends, one of them dead. Relationships change. Sometimes even family members kill each other.
But that said, there is no evidence to the Kid not being killed that day. This is a common misconception, literally all credible evidence states that he was indeed killed.
Well, fucker's dead now, that's for DAMN sure!!! 🤣
Awesome as always Josh, many thanks and best wishes from the UK 🙏🇬🇧👍
Is he, though? If he's dead where's the picture??????
@@WildWestExtravaganza very true!! 😄
Josh, I’d love to hear you do an episode based around those letters from your ancestor in the Civil War.
I really wish this were a one second video, script: "No."
Great job!
If it wasn't for me personally seeing Billy, the kid working the cash register at McDonald's today, I would say that I agree with you. However, I did ask him if Pat Garrett killed him, and he laughed and said it was not his good friend Pat, but in fact, Mayor McCheese that shot him in the Mcnuggets.
Gotta protect your McNuggets at all cost
Brushy Bill claims the man Pat Garrett shot was named Billy Barlow. Have they ever figured out if Billy Barlow was even a real person?
Of course not. Billy Barlow is the title of a once popular song.
@@WildWestExtravaganza Haha really I didn't know that funny. Like you, I want Brushy Bill to be Billy the Kid so bad but the reality is he's just not. But if they make Young Guns 3 about Brushy Bill I'll still be the first one in line to watch it
Oh me too! I might even go watch it twice. In the young guns universe Brushy is real.
Case closed. Pat Garrett killed him that night.
I really enjoyed this series very interesting thanks for sharing keep up the great work
Glad you enjoyed it
I don't always agree with the way you deliver the facts....but I can't argue with the accuracy of your facts.
Great video and I look forward to your next video.
Reguards
Thanks Charles
I believe if Billy the Kid was still alive he would have made contact with his lady and his child only child
I like to think that if he was still alive he'd have a podcast
A great podcaster he’d be . It’s interesting that Jesse Evans led Morrison to Brushy Bill. Also, old Doc Scurlock never said a word …Now, when y’all gonna talk about J Frank Dalton’s rope burn scars from being hung as a kid ? Or that one armed soldier that was dug up at Jesse James grave or was it that two folks buried there one in a box and one not in a box?
Attended college in Portales, NM. Fort Sumner is a short drive west. Billy The Kids grave is still clearly marked. I attended Grad school in Las Cruces. I lived just a mile north on 70 where Garrett was killed.
Another great video, good luck with the new career.
Thank you
Nice closer 😂 that is why I love the content. Love you Josh.
Can't wait for butch Cassidy. I'll donate as soon as I can. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Thanks
If there was any shred of doubt that Garret killed the kid, no money would have been dispersed. And, on top of that, ask yourself if a whole town could've kept the secret that the Kid's death was faked. No way IMHO.
Great job ! 👍✌😎
Yeah, it just doesn't seem very plausible
Yea, because the government has never and will never pay someone who fooled them. That's a pretty weak argument. The whole town didn't see the body, only a hand full of people had to keep the secret. I spent two years (1985 - 1987) and my own money doing my own research most of that time was spent in New Mexico. I like Josh love history my favorite time being the old west. I have a special interest in the Lincoln County War, Pat & Billy because my great grandfather lived in the west Texas boarder towns during the time period. This is not a dig on Josh or his work and it's not a dig on you. My interest was what part and how involved my great grandfather was in all of the goings on. I really don't care if Pat killed Billy, I just don't believed he did. Thanks for you time and happy trails!🤠
@@rongreen4536 But it was a lot more than a handful who saw the body. Thank you for the kind words.
@@rongreen4536 First of all, it was more than a "handful" of people. But for the sake of argument, lets say it was. If you know anything about small towns, where everybody knows everybody, if more than three people know something, the whole town will know eventually.
Second,$500 back then was a small fortune, you might want to research what $500 dollars then, would be worth today. I think my argument is stronger than you think.
Of course, we both have the right to our own opinions and I will even concede you may very well be right, But I doubt it.
Keep lovin' history my friend!!👍✌😎
@@WildWestExtravaganza Good morning Josh, It seams we have come full circle. You did a great job making your argument! I don't agree with you, having said that, you did a great job. You are a smart guy doing the best he can do in the limited time you have on the podcast. I'm going to have a few questions for you in a day are two. My dog died last night in her sleep and that's a big deal to me.😞
Thanks Ron
Thanks for the detailed research bud. I have been Pro Brushy Bill forever simply for the what if factor but also because I could not find such detailed accounts as you out forth. Hats off to you.
I still like to hear the conspiracy theories for fun, though 😅
😊 good luck on the full time channel!
Thanks for listening
Congrats on quitting your day job! Amazing news. 🎉 Keep them coming I enjoy the hell out of them.
I'm trying!
I miss the original but this is still the best western history podcast
Ok, you've made adecent case for Garret
but what are your thoughts on Paulita Maxwell's child born after the "Kid" was shot?
From the photos taken he is a dead ringer for the "Kid"
Hmmm, I haven't seen those photos but I don't think we can say anyone's a dead ringer due to us just having one photo of the Kid...and it's a photo that was really bad according to people who knew him. I'm certainly not opposed to Billy having kids, though.
Especially when their a “dead” ringer…😂
@WildWestExtravaganza there were some tins that popped up with photos of Billy.
Automobiles (as well as motorcycles) did exist in 1881 but, if. I'm not mistaken, they were very slow. Slower than horses.
The only way to know the truth is to do DNA from the body in Billy's grave and his mother.but I still believe that Patt never shot Billy.
Usally dont watch things like this because most people's storys have alot of holes in them but listening to you debunk myths and bring iut the fascinating truth. You got a new follow now if you will excuse me i have more episodes to binge 😅 thank you for this channel 🙏
i always think that pat garrett shot the wrong guy passed him off as billy and let him get away,being friends probably telling him go somewhere out of the country.the witnesses saying it was billy saying it was him,knowing that it wasnt him also went along with it,so they can take the heat off billy and have the law stop looking for him.i dont think brushy bill was him,probably knew billy or someone close to him and got all the facts from them.
New sub here. Only just found your channel. Loved the amount of research you had done and how you presented it. Job well done.
As a Brit, I have always loved the wild west... Even back in the late 80's I tried to write an old wild west novel, but never got to finish it as I hit the proverbial wall. Over the years I eventually lost all my research notes as well as the manuscript.
Thanks man, sorry to hear about your manuscript
@@WildWestExtravaganza You're welcome and thanks too. I never did recover from the writer's block I had. I guess that's why I decided to eventually narrate creepypastas instead. Although I am also about to start 2 other channels, one is a reaction channel and the other is a true crime one; historical and modern.
Hell yeah brother
Please respond to this question:
I’ve seen an old VHS recording of an ancestor of De Silva claiming that the assassin hid under a bench & shot BTK with a shotgun. What do you think about this account? Thanks for the epic content & keep up the great work!
I'll try to answer. I think it's a very interesting story but this is exactly what I meant by anecdotal. Just because something is anecdotal does not mean it's not true, but it does mean there's no way to verify it. The personal connection he had with someone who was there is very intriguing but it also directly contradicts the other statements. I'm not saying that Pat didn't blast Billy with a shotgun but I am saying none of the first hand accounts mentioned it but there were several men who claimed Billy was shot in the chest from Garrett's pistol.
Oooo yeaaaaaa!! It's time!!!! Thank you
Hope you like it
@@WildWestExtravaganza come on brotha I always enjoy your hard work! 👍
I think.... Billie and pat were buddies... pat wanted fame, Billie wanted to dissappear......
Im not sure if Billy the Kid actually got killed the night , but even if he wasn’t killed , I don’t believe Brushy Bill was actually him . They say Brushy was around 20 years younger than what Billy would be.
Well my Friends most Artists and Philosophers are born posthumously.
Now I stole that from Nietzsche, but you can add Billy the Kid into the mix.
In simpler terms a Southner can easily understand, is Elvis worth more alive or dead? The latter.
Van Gogh was broke and chopped off his ear. Now his paintings are worth million and he is worm dirt.
Billy had no idea of his future fame. I hope he is looking down and scratching his head and saying hey, thats not me playing croquet in that photo!
Billy's at that big faro table in the sky!
@@WildWestExtravaganza Praise the Lord!
Love your show.
Your style, delivery and humor is just perfectly off the rails.👍🏻
Gracias
@@WildWestExtravaganza De nada Amigo. I left you a vm about the mass hangings in my home town. I think we hold the record at 41 in a day. Not single black, just Unionist.
Nobody in Gville likes to talk about it until this day.
Yes...I'm definitely doing an episode on it one day... It's been on my list for a while
I encourage people who watch this video to read Alias Billy The Kid. It's about Bill Roberts and the kid. It's also the basis for the upcoming film Guns 3: Alias Billy The Kid. It's a fun read, but I wouldn't take it as gospel.
I think it's available online for free, too. It used to be, at least.
A couple of years ago I began my Billy the Kid journey believing that it is very possible that BTK was not killed July 14th 1881. Your podcast is a decent part of why I now believe Garrett killed the Kid on that fateful day. I’m glad I found your show and have enjoyed many other stories you’ve shared.
I'm glad you found it too
That's the mystery. I don't think Garret killed him. They were friends. I do believe Billy and him conspired due to Pats political ambitions. Billy went to Mexico. It will always be debated. I believe the true answers lay in Mexico.
@@josephsliger3308 I definitely agree that it'll always be debated!
I'm sitting here waiting for Will Farell saying "Did we just become best friends?!"
YEP!
Thank you for making that step Josh!! You are a great researcher, all of your work is awesome man. I haven't missed anything you have done. Even the bbpc day's. I loved you then! I'm always waiting for your next piece. I'll be following the into history podcast too. Good luck to you, I think you will be just fine.
I started rewatching Deadwood this month and just watched your video on Al. Have you ever heard of a place called "Stanton" in Western AZ? It's named for a particularly evil man of a similar profile. You might like the story for your channel
No but I just looked it up and you're right! It would make a great subject. Thanks for the heads up.
@@WildWestExtravaganza have you done one about the Earps and their time in California?
Did brushy bill explain the photo
The only one we have of Billy holdin the rifle ????
I don't know
I feel that its still a mystery on what happened that fateful momment.
So two things...Number 1: Congrats on making this your full time job Josh. You have a knack for it and the truths of history that can be painful. Number 2: For all those that think Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid can stick this episode in their pipe and smoke it
Right lol!!! I don't know as much about Brushy, but I know alot about Billy, and they were infact two different men..
I would rather smoke some reefer. I don't what happened back then. I want to believe Bill was the Kid, but it's a major stretch.
@ConservativeKirbyXIcKXI Agreed
@@inkdemon64mclemore57 Agreed
@@williamthompson5504 Lol...tha ks
Atta boy Josh! Great job
Ask yourself if Billy's death was a hoax why did no one in Fort Sumner ever say it was. None of them ever claimed Pat Garrett did not kill the Kid even after Pat's death. They cared much for the kid so would have loved to have thrown dirt on Pat by letting the cat out of the bag. Billy's girl friend claimed Pat killed the kid as did Devulina Maxwell who also loved the Kid. So why would any of them lie.
The only reasons I can think of would be to protect Billy or out of fear of Garrett
@@WildWestExtravaganza Okay but after Pat died no one ever came forward and said he didn't kill the Kid.
@@TheSpaghetti64 oh I agree with you. I made the same point in this episode. Those are the only reasons I can imagine and neither hold much water.
Mabey out of fear other lawmen might come hunting the kid and then they all would be in trouble for lieing
@@shannonfraccola4285 maybe
This is the first time I’ve ever heard a story from your channel. I absolutely love it. You absolutely have a knack for story telling and deliver facts and research to a T. Instant subscriber!
Much appreciated, sir
I must say that youve done a great job. Youve changed my opinion on Bushy and my opinion on Garrett being a coward. Do i wish Brushy was Billy the Kid? Hell yeah i do but ive been convinced other wise.
Love the delivery 😅
Thanks!
In 1881 was $500 a big reward? How much would it be in our prices?
Roughly $15,000 according to inflation calculators
@WildWestExtravaganza so it was a fair chunk of cash, a pretty good incentive to collect on it if Garret was having money problems.
Thanks for the reply, you do a great podcast, all the best for the new venture.
Thank you
Regardless of what really happened, it's always been an intriguing subject.
True
Love their pod cast ignore the criticism your damn Good at telling it like it is It’s a Very Interesting an Ya make me laugh Keep Up The Bad A** work!! “Tammy”
Good for you brother I remember even before you were explaining the name of this pod and a plew I'm proud of you congrats on the new job my friend
Awesome thank you
@@WildWestExtravaganza thank you I honestly appreciate it
It's my story and I'm stick'n to it! LOL
Ha!