Yeah, I think Dugin implicitly sees anarchism as a confused mix of liberalism and communism because of the premium anarchism places on individual freedom. In general, as you mentioned his biggest hate boner is for liberalism precisely because of it's commitments to individual freedom. It is this that he hates the most, people doing what they want in accordance with their idea of the good. That is what he considers corrosive, and it is in the best possible way. Heaven forbid people do something other than what their parents, military, or Orthodox priests demand of them. If anomie and aimlessness are the worst things about a social order for you, you don't have it too bad. Aimlessness and anomie are good problems to have.
Don't underselling the problems that libralism has caused and is causing. The west sees much, much higher rates of depression, scuicide and self harm, has no cultural ability to combat substance abuse and, and this is key, if people don't have meaning they will find it. Failure to give life purpose produces the next generation of fascists, jihadists, communists and incels. Duganism is a terrible response to this problem, but the problem is very real. As for a solution, I think looking to politics is fundamentally flawed, grassroots cultural movement has the potential to provide genuine community, belonging and meaning, look at the Amish, Mennonites, Bruderhof, Jehovah's Witnesses. Islamic countries, even those suffering with severe economic problems, have statistically better mental health outcomes, if the stats can be trusted grassroots religion and the community it brings are a real, viable solution.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts I don't need life to have purpose. Liberalism falls short in many ways, but that is not a failure point. This is literally a right wing talking point.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts You said that failure to give life purpose produces the next generation of fascists, jihadists, communists and incels. So oppressive and restricting ideologies. But as a solution to combatant those oppressive and restricting ideologies you gave examples of similar oppressive and restricting ideologies.
I think he is trying, but at the end of the day he is politically insignificant. He tries to look more important than he is, which is why he keeps bouncing around attempting to pick up relevance from other, more significant people and groups.
dont know if this is good desprcion considering most tankies in word are already socially conservative.onyl soem western wannabe stalinists arent and they do very creative mental gimnaistics.
I don't think a conversation about socially far right 'communists', in the context of American and western political culture, can really be complete without mentioning Lyndon LaRouche. A lot of the ideas that you've called Douginist, aren't present on American 'left' because of him, but more so because of LaRouche. If anything, I'd argue that Dugin is a Russian writer that the modern inheritors of the LaRouchite tradition happen to like, and that's why he's popular in those circles. Speaking of which, how do you see the relationship between Dougin and Lyndon LaRouche? Do you think they've landed on a lot of the same ideas independently of each other, or do you think Dugin was inspired by LaRouche?
Likely independent. LaRouche was mixing Trotskyism with Neo-Platonism and an aggressive form of American nationalism and anglophobia in the formation of his ideology. Dugin's ideology, meanwhile, while drawing influence from western philosophers like Martin Heidegger, is largely a kind of post-modern version of the Eurasianist movement which was around during the early USSR. Basically, they're two somewhat similar third-positionist authoritarians arriving at similar conclusions, who arrived at their ideas and conclusions from fundamentally different points of origin. Basically, I think it's one big case of strange minds thinking alike.
I recommend watching sarcasmitron's series on the war in Ukraine. His 4th part discusses the actual causes for the war, and he uncovers that Putin's antics in Ukraine and Georgia are because of a conspiracy theory surrounding color revolutions that was created by a member of the Larouche movement. The Larouche movement's conspiracy theories have been spreading into Russia since the 90's and have become popular in Russian ultranationalist circles. The creator of the color revolution conspiracy theory was William Engdahl, a former writer and member of the Larouche movement, and in his career as a journalist he has worked with Alexander Dugin.
Always love to hear you mentioned Dimitry. I loved taking his classes and it always puts a smile on my face to know he has people citing him in quality RUclips videos.
I very much appreciate your matter-of-factness in comparison to other "leftist" channels...it reminds me of Karol Modzelewski's work where he was pretty much a revolutionary but you wouldn't guess it from his publications.
Oh my god the tweet at 58:40. "Christianity was the woke, cancel culture radlib movement of the Late Roman Empire." People really go on the internet and say any stupid thing that comes to their head.
Appreciate this a lot! Shelled out the cash for the Modernism & Fascism work by Roger Griffin in print from this discussion (which sent me down a whole rabbithole). If you aren’t a goober non-fiction hoarder like me, the Internet Archive has a library scan freely available to check out, for those who would like to give it a read without dropping roughly a shift or two’s worth of labor (US, depending on hourly rate) on purchasing it. 😵💫😳
Putin-Dungin dynamic reminds me of the historical relationship between Heidegger and the NSDAP, somehow. Both pairing seeing the other one as a useful tool for their own means (intellectual legitimation of the regime X political support for implementing those thinker's respective idiosyncratic fascist utopias), but the greater fool getting scammed will be, at the end of the day, Heidegger and Dugin. People like them are humored by the more practical elements of the regime's propaganda as long as their zealous dedication to their own dellusions make them easy support. The second they will express divergent views publically, they will fade back into obscurity. Arguably, Dugin seems more politically litterate than Heidegger for that regard (but the bar is really low) Also 'patriotic socialists" are a fucking insult to revolutionnary socialists in the struggle of national or anti-colonial liberation. Sinn Fein in Ireland, the Catalan anarchists, the Makhnovchina in Ukraine , the KYP in Rojava, to name a few, were and still are, to some extent, nationalists, but their grievance against the nation state are based on a historical record of social engineering and/or genocide. They also tend to be acutely aware of the risks and pitfalls of the State and the Nation as concepts and have a strong stance on self awareness and self criticism. Dugin and his clique of faux intellectuals wanting to re create dead empires to scratch their authoritarian itches are not revolutionnary, know nothing about freedom and are an active disgrace to academia.
Funny hoi4 ideology man
hoi4 players wen they try to make a real ideology.
@@Mrax_Taylorplenty of it is real
@@tristanband4003 Which part.
@@Mrax_Taylor it’s only real insofar as its incoherence of thought is equally as chaotic as the shared reality we all inhabit & experience 😵💫
@@TheLetsRead So it as stupid as humanity.
TRUE
Yeah, I think Dugin implicitly sees anarchism as a confused mix of liberalism and communism because of the premium anarchism places on individual freedom. In general, as you mentioned his biggest hate boner is for liberalism precisely because of it's commitments to individual freedom. It is this that he hates the most, people doing what they want in accordance with their idea of the good. That is what he considers corrosive, and it is in the best possible way.
Heaven forbid people do something other than what their parents, military, or Orthodox priests demand of them. If anomie and aimlessness are the worst things about a social order for you, you don't have it too bad. Aimlessness and anomie are good problems to have.
Anomie is the precursor to social disintegration. No culture survives it.
Anomie is the precursor to social disintegration. No culture survives it.
Don't underselling the problems that libralism has caused and is causing. The west sees much, much higher rates of depression, scuicide and self harm, has no cultural ability to combat substance abuse and, and this is key, if people don't have meaning they will find it. Failure to give life purpose produces the next generation of fascists, jihadists, communists and incels. Duganism is a terrible response to this problem, but the problem is very real.
As for a solution, I think looking to politics is fundamentally flawed, grassroots cultural movement has the potential to provide genuine community, belonging and meaning, look at the Amish, Mennonites, Bruderhof, Jehovah's Witnesses. Islamic countries, even those suffering with severe economic problems, have statistically better mental health outcomes, if the stats can be trusted grassroots religion and the community it brings are a real, viable solution.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts I don't need life to have purpose. Liberalism falls short in many ways, but that is not a failure point. This is literally a right wing talking point.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts You said that failure to give life purpose produces the next generation of fascists, jihadists, communists and incels. So oppressive and restricting ideologies.
But as a solution to combatant those oppressive and restricting ideologies you gave examples of similar oppressive and restricting ideologies.
I think what Dugin's up to is known as "hiding your power level" in the modern (online) far right.
I think he is trying, but at the end of the day he is politically insignificant. He tries to look more important than he is, which is why he keeps bouncing around attempting to pick up relevance from other, more significant people and groups.
Ive only ever heard the power level bs from leftists and liberal personally
Dugin is just a socially conservative Tankie
Very close!
Temu John Milbank.
dont know if this is good desprcion considering most tankies in word are already socially conservative.onyl soem western wannabe stalinists arent and they do very creative mental gimnaistics.
I don't think a conversation about socially far right 'communists', in the context of American and western political culture, can really be complete without mentioning Lyndon LaRouche.
A lot of the ideas that you've called Douginist, aren't present on American 'left' because of him, but more so because of LaRouche. If anything, I'd argue that Dugin is a Russian writer that the modern inheritors of the LaRouchite tradition happen to like, and that's why he's popular in those circles.
Speaking of which, how do you see the relationship between Dougin and Lyndon LaRouche? Do you think they've landed on a lot of the same ideas independently of each other, or do you think Dugin was inspired by LaRouche?
Likely independent. LaRouche was mixing Trotskyism with Neo-Platonism and an aggressive form of American nationalism and anglophobia in the formation of his ideology. Dugin's ideology, meanwhile, while drawing influence from western philosophers like Martin Heidegger, is largely a kind of post-modern version of the Eurasianist movement which was around during the early USSR. Basically, they're two somewhat similar third-positionist authoritarians arriving at similar conclusions, who arrived at their ideas and conclusions from fundamentally different points of origin. Basically, I think it's one big case of strange minds thinking alike.
@@petehill7280 Don't forget that his anglophobia is basically just thinly veiled antisemitism too.
Also all patsoc 'duginists' are literally working in LaRouche movement now
I recommend watching sarcasmitron's series on the war in Ukraine. His 4th part discusses the actual causes for the war, and he uncovers that Putin's antics in Ukraine and Georgia are because of a conspiracy theory surrounding color revolutions that was created by a member of the Larouche movement. The Larouche movement's conspiracy theories have been spreading into Russia since the 90's and have become popular in Russian ultranationalist circles. The creator of the color revolution conspiracy theory was William Engdahl, a former writer and member of the Larouche movement, and in his career as a journalist he has worked with Alexander Dugin.
@@adamnemo42 acting like "antisemitism" can exist lol
What a great discussion, thank you both!
Thank you!
Always love to hear you mentioned Dimitry. I loved taking his classes and it always puts a smile on my face to know he has people citing him in quality RUclips videos.
Wow you took his classes, that's great! I have found his work invaluable on this subject.
Yep history of the 20th century and western Civ 1 in fall 19 and Spring of 20. Man is a real character.@veritasetcaritas
I very much appreciate your matter-of-factness in comparison to other "leftist" channels...it reminds me of Karol Modzelewski's work where he was pretty much a revolutionary but you wouldn't guess it from his publications.
Thank you!
Time Traveler: (sneezes)
Georges Sorel: *Stays tf away from Maurras and integralism*
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Oh my god the tweet at 58:40. "Christianity was the woke, cancel culture radlib movement of the Late Roman Empire." People really go on the internet and say any stupid thing that comes to their head.
Appreciate this a lot! Shelled out the cash for the Modernism & Fascism work by Roger Griffin in print from this discussion (which sent me down a whole rabbithole). If you aren’t a goober non-fiction hoarder like me, the Internet Archive has a library scan freely available to check out, for those who would like to give it a read without dropping roughly a shift or two’s worth of labor (US, depending on hourly rate) on purchasing it. 😵💫😳
Thank you! Great book.
In german this is called "Querfrontstrategie" and it's nothing new.
Literally as old as fascism itself.
Putin-Dungin dynamic reminds me of the historical relationship between Heidegger and the NSDAP, somehow. Both pairing seeing the other one as a useful tool for their own means (intellectual legitimation of the regime X political support for implementing those thinker's respective idiosyncratic fascist utopias), but the greater fool getting scammed will be, at the end of the day, Heidegger and Dugin. People like them are humored by the more practical elements of the regime's propaganda as long as their zealous dedication to their own dellusions make them easy support. The second they will express divergent views publically, they will fade back into obscurity. Arguably, Dugin seems more politically litterate than Heidegger for that regard (but the bar is really low)
Also 'patriotic socialists" are a fucking insult to revolutionnary socialists in the struggle of national or anti-colonial liberation. Sinn Fein in Ireland, the Catalan anarchists, the Makhnovchina in Ukraine , the KYP in Rojava, to name a few, were and still are, to some extent, nationalists, but their grievance against the nation state are based on a historical record of social engineering and/or genocide. They also tend to be acutely aware of the risks and pitfalls of the State and the Nation as concepts and have a strong stance on self awareness and self criticism.
Dugin and his clique of faux intellectuals wanting to re create dead empires to scratch their authoritarian itches are not revolutionnary, know nothing about freedom and are an active disgrace to academia.
Very well said.
I suspect it might be time to no longer make excuses for stabbi stabbers
Duginism is fascism with extra steps
And not even that many extra steps.
@@veritasetcaritas Extra word salad
@@Strix2031 almost as bad as TIK's word salad.