The thief is probably the only subclass in the game that encourages you to mess with and or search for mundane equipment. I mean the amount of stuff you can do is actually crazy because you can literally become a semi-controller while still having normal actions like attacking and what not. You can never underestimate what a bag full of ball bearings, caltrops, flasks of oil and acid can do. Heck, even the artificer until 10th level has no actual motivation to use normal equipment and even then he only gets encouragement to mess with magical items!
I’ve taken a couple of levels of artificer and a proficiency in alchemist’s supplies. Needless to say, there’s now a mundane object for every occasion!
I agree. The mindless Barbarian may be able to hack and slaughter their way through a tough situation, its that Rogue that makes it a possibility in the first place. Rightfully so! Rogues are every day survivors and do so un-gloriously.
When talking about Hiding as a Bonus Action, I think Kelly missed the opportunity to talk about his Lightfoot Halfling's Naturally Stealthy ability and when he might or might not be able to use that. I'm currently playing the pre-rolled Halfling Thief from Lost Mines of Phandelver, and my DM has let me hide behind bigger characters during fights as long as the monster is reasonably distracted by the fighting. Curious on how other DMs might rule that.
My main character is a halfling rogue and our DM has allowed essentially the same. Basically during the fight, I can roll a stealth check to hide behind another player (no real "reasonably distracted" limitation, but I assume it goes without saying). Biggest drawback is if my partymate moves.
So unfortunately even in the PHB it literally says “The DM decides when its appropriate to hide”. However as a lightfoot halfing your ability lets you hide behind ANY creature that is bigger than you. I’ve heard of DMs that let the halfing hide behind the big ogre who loses them in the fight or is infiltrating the castle. If an Elf can literally vanish and make a stealth check in dim light while someone is looking at them who says the halfling is just too small to notice?
Another mechanic in the mix is being out of sight and holding action to attack when the enemy advances into your line of sight. This is less useful when party is on offense or when you are on open terrain, but it does have its uses when not able to “hide.”
While the rules on hiding are 'up to the DM', it's important to keep game balance in mind. Before TCE gave Rogues access to Steady Aim, hiding with your bonus action was the primary way to generate advantage for your *one* attack per round that you get. The best way to look at the 'hiding behind a rock' scenario is NOT the Skyrim-logic of "You don't know where I am". At your table, if you want to pop out, stab someone, and then run away and hide, you COULD look at it as the hiding retroactively making your previous actions that quick and stealthy that the enemy didn't know where you were, but more practically... Regardless of whether the enemy knows where you are or not, being hidden means they cannot 'clearly see you', and gives you that advantage on attacks. That's all it means. An enemy *can* always just walk around the rock and 'clearly see you' to break your stealth, but if they are engaged with your fighter/paladin/barbarian friend, doing this whack a mole strategy just means you're so quick and sneaky with your attacks that they cannot easily react to you popping in and out of cover, and that's why you have advantage. If an enemy wants to pursue the rogue who is hiding behind the rock, that's fine, because all being hidden was doing was disguising your next attack and your movement to make you sneaky. They're allowed to remember your last known position. But they can't see you popping out of cover very well.
I agree, the ways to gain advantage on attacks are so numerous and easy that Rogues are expected to land their sneak attack conditions every turn. That's what they do, and if they don't they're worse than a Fighter. If the DM doesn't allow this, the DM doesn't want Rogue to have fun
Great video. Love Thieves. My go to Feat for them is definitely Martial Adept in orther to use Disarming Strike against a weapon-wielding enemy, then Fast Hands to snag their weapon from the ground on the same turn.
Oooh I really like this idea. I was just wondering how you might pull something like that off. It feels very Rogue-ish. I haven't played around with Martial adept much though so it didn't come to mind. Thanks for sharing!
Cool idea, but is Fast Hands even needed for this? I think picking an item/weapon up from the ground is considered a "free action", so you should theoretically still be able to use your bonus action Fast Hands or Cunning Action for something else (maybe even an offhand attack with the weapon you just picked up?).
@@sektorispiar2988 Yeah, makes sense. But since picking up stuff from the ground isn't explicitly listed in the Free Object Interaction stuff, I tend to go with this to be safe. Depending on your DM you might not need Fast Hands for this.
I like your guides. I started playing dnd after watching your videos about the character classes and they helped me understanding what they can do and what is possible to make.
With Monty's build, depending on party composition, I would consider the ritual caster feat(wizard) gaining Alarm, and Detect Magic as ritual spells to improve on the perception theme. At the first opportunity, I'd add Find Familiar(delayed because of the material cost) and Comprehend Languages to the ritual book. Leomund's Tiny Hut at 5th level is a definite goal. Supplementing the thief's skills with magic also fits the high elf theme. I would still take Elven Accuracy, just at a higher level.
I know most of the rogue subclasses like the back of my hand, but it was still enjoyable just listening to you guys describe my favorite subclass (due to my love of old AD&D thieves and assassins) while painting up a mini for my new thief. His name is Jackalope Higgins
Grabbing three levels of Bard gets you another Expertise feature AND Jack of All Trades. Four skills with Expertise and half proficiency bonus, rounded down, on everything else is insanely good.
Great video. I'd love to see where you go with both characters to lvl 20. I'm currently playing a "Karmic" Thief. This is a trope where you only steal from bad people, but unlike robin hood where you give to the poor, you keep it for yourself. It's a fun middle ground so you don't need to steal from your companions (which annoys everyone) but can still dastardly enough to run your paladin friend the wrong way lol. He's more of a gentleman thief (Think Lupin). I love the Thief subclass as I like the challenge of not having to rely on magic. In fact, my character has a strong distrust of it. Great stuff as always, keep up the great work.
I really wish the use magic device feature came online sooner. It is an awesome ability to have, but in most campaigns your barely going to have the chance to take advantage of it.
It is so weird to see someone make a video without using the not-so-optional rules presented in tasha and am extremely grateful for that, as that is the way we play at the tables i run and play in. That fact alone has picked my interest to see other vids of this series (i was already watching some of your other vids anyways, but wasnt really gonna watch the builds until now)
Taking proficiency in Alchemist's Tools can play like Rorschach, letting you reliably nail someone with Sneak Attack and douse them with drain cleaner, oil, or homemade incendiaries with a bonus action.
I love these beginner builds you dudes started. I already know how to do all of this, but I was able to show this to my dad who hasn't played since First Edition. I also like this style for even the other builds you've been doing because of how thoroughly you explain the features of both the class and subclass.
The one time I got to play a rogue, it was as a Scout archetype with the City Wacth background. I envisioned them as an archer well-versed in working with others, able to stand on the backlines and land Sneak Attacks because of their training with the local city guards. It was a Rogue who did not brood or lone wolf, but instead reveled in their chance to add hard-hitting arrows to a fight, and help investigate what was causing the local disturbances. Your last few notes on how to role-play are exactly what I was aiming for, and I'm glad you're pushing that over the typical brooding rogue who sits in the corner.
Played a thief rogue in my first campaign ever and i was such a dnd novice!!! i would have benefited so greatly from watching this video and especially from hearing the advice about working together with your party and not just being brooding and standoffish. I probably would have had a much better first experience with roleplay. Awesome video guys!
I like the way you two explained sneak attack. I was not quite getting it before, now it makes much more sense, both mechanically and the in-game reason why it exists. (I'm new to 5e, but not D&D, coming back after a long hiatus)
A player in my current campaign is playing a Tabaxi Assassin Rogue, and given the fact she's the only non-magic user in the party I decided to give her a little oomph by giving her an Assassin's Creed like Hidden Blade that can be modified with different things, gives a little flavor and lets her have something cool to play around with.
@@AnaseSkyrider actually more of a homebrew I found online. I adapted it for our game and gave it the possibility to be customized for a price of course. Right now it's basically a hidden dagger, but you get advantage on sleight of hand checks to stow it, a 1LR 3d4 bonus if you manage an assassination. My player chose to customize it with a hidden crossbow (hand crossbow), poison blade (1 damage but can be coated and/or used as a syringe) and a poison crossbow with a lower range than the regular hand crossbow. And finally a small compartment for one use smoke canisters that create a smoke cloud. Canisters are 20 gold a pop due to their complexity, and 40 gold if she wants to have custom canisters (ie: poison clouds with different effects). She wanted to lean in heavy into the poisoner assassin, so I obliged.
I allowed a rogue to use the Hide in a face-to-face combat (with a quite high TN), he used it to get behind the enemy or other combat trick, on other times when they were fighting with a dragon he used it to hide under the dragon and get out of the sight of it, so he could land a nice sneak attack. It was a very fun experience to DM the fight with the player who described what he is doing exactly.
Thanks guys! Very informative! I just subscribed. I am new to DnD and am creating my first character, a cute little red-headed female lightfoot halfling Rogue/thief.
I love your guys passion, its awesome and contagious. As for rogues? At lower levels they are critical to basic combat, lose such at Middle levels and gain it back in spades at higher levels. Why? Because at higher levels, the only way your party is annihilated is from impetuous sixth level hack and slaughter mentality. While this may, for example carry you through a "Temple of Elemental Evil" it will NOT carry you through a "Tomb of Horrors".
Would be nice to mention in the video some nice ways to use Swift hands, like oil flask as a weak bonus action ranged attack or healer kit with healer feat
My current rogue build is amazing, though multiclassed one level thus far. Tabaxi scout rogue investigator. Playing him like a bounty hunter. Currently sitting at lvl 11, 10 rogue 1 fighter has a +12 attack bonus(ranged using revolver from dms guide) 6 expertise skills 4 of which are above +10. He really saved the party with his survival and nature skills durring exploration. Feats taken are gunner, skill expert, and sharpshooter. Was gifted magical gunpowder by the dm.
I’m currently playing a Swashbuckler/Swords Bard multi-class. It’s some of the most fun I’ve ever had playing D&D. And this makes for an amazing Gish multi-class. The only additional thing I may do is add another multi-class with Hexblade Warlock just to give me that even slighter edge in combat as well as Eldridge Blast
Hexblade is an amazing multiclass for swashbuckler, to the point it’s tough to know when to stop dipping. But I’d be hesitant to do so after already multiclassing elsewhere. Every level you take is an opportunity cost. Eldritch blast in particular needs a number of warlock levels to really kick off, won’t get sneak attack, and you’d lose out on some invocations that would be very cool to have as a rogue. (Consider Magic Stone cantrip and a sling, though you’ll need to work it out w/ the DM just in case they’re picky). Some cool things you can do w/ hex-buckler though... You probably already know about using charisma for attacks. Booming blade cantrip, sneak attack, + swashbuckler’s footwork is amazing. Invocations such as Misty Visions and Mask of Many have incredible potential w/ expertise in Deception. (Actor feat can take this even further, but consider your campaign.) Could also go Devil Sight if social interactions aren’t so much an issue. Pact of the Chain gives you access to very easy sneak attacks with an invisible helper. (You could do this with other familiars, but it seems easier to make the DM want to off your pets if they don’t have the excuse of being invisible.)
I enjoyed my first module rogue (Scout). Deep gnome for an Out of the Abyss game. Leaned into being the scout and skill guy that knew enough about nature to keep his companions alive in the Underdark.
Admittedly I haven't played much 5e, and I like the scoundrel rogue idea. I was also thinking of adding a club to the weapons, because sometimes you don't want to kill, just subdue or knock out the guard. I also like to add a couple of items to most of my character's inventories. Namely, Signal whistle, steel mirror, and chalk. Signal whistle to communicate or create a distraction, a mirror for signaling or observing something without giving away your position, and chalk for marking your way through an unfamiliar area, drawing a layout of some place you've scouted, or to leave messages for the rest of your party.
At 25:15, Monty says that, on average, 2d4 is more damage than 1d8. That's exactly right. Of course, the probability of doing maximum damage (i.e., 8) with 1d8 is higher than the probability of doing maximum damage with 2d4: 1d8: p(8) = 1/8 = 0.1250 = 12.50% 2d4: p(4) x p(4) = 1/16 = 0.0625 = 06.25%. But the average damage of 2d4 is nonetheless higher than the average damage of 1d8. We can calculate this with the dice average formula, where N is the total number of dice and M is the maximum value of each die: ((M+1)/2)∗N = average score. That gives us the following for 1d8 and 2d4: 1d8: ((8+1)/2)∗1 = 4.5 2d4: ((4+1)/2)*2 = 5. So, the average damage of 1d8 is 4.5 and the average damage of 2d4 is 5.
My first 5th ED character is a Halfling/Thief/ Rogue . I wanted to go basic in my first 5th ed character. I love him , when I get a Crit its like nuke went off. I went with the stout halfling to get a boost in Con. A ring of Darkvision really hellps to.
I'm playing a thief right now, and we're using the reduced rest rule (one day is a short rest, one week for long rest). I hadn't thought about it when making the character, but my mastery over skills is extremely valueable.
In a futuristic campaign, using a pulse rifle with the brutal feature totaling 5d8 on a crit, I crit a sneak attack with it and dealt something like 35 on the attack before sneak damage and then another 25 in sneak. Helped expedite that combat along lol
In regards to dice math: rolling 1d8 means you have the same odds of dealing any number between 1-8. Whereas rolling 2d4 turns your dmg charts from just a straight line of probability into a small bell curve. Your max and min will happen less often, but the average will be higher.
Skip the second shortsword and go with the bow and arrows. You can dual wield just wine with one of the daggers and a shortsword and the bow adds a lot of versatility.
Ahh, "Rogues"... Fun... Here is mine: Ruby "Silver" Argenti was born to shopkeeper parents who specialised in all maner of homewares. Her father blended smithing and carpentry to make metal fittings, locks, and completed chests. Her mother leaned more to the decorative side of things, making silver candlesticks, mirrors, and other more aesthetically pleasing items. Ruby was raised helping out both of her parents doing their tasks, deloping and knack for fine detail, and an avaricious eye for anything made of Silver (even if more "valuable" things were availible). More than once she would see her farther getting yelled at by upset customers trying to blame him after their valuable had been stollen from chests/safes/etc that he had made, and this gave Ruby her focus, and her dream - To design an un-pickable lock! She would work with her father to make this happen, combining novel designs and exotic materials, and creating numerous designs... But no matter how hard they tried, each new design was targeted and circumvented, sometimes in a matter of mere days... Rather than getting upset, Ruby got motivated and decided to infiltrate the local 'Theives Guild' and find out how they were doing it from the inside. So she faked a story about running away from home 'to join the winning team' and sold her skills at making both locks and lock-picks (A side effect of testing her previous creations). That they in turn taught her the 'tricks of the trade' was a bonus... As was the fact that she now had the perfect excuse to steal as much Silver as she could get her hands on! As a result, Ruby has the 'Artisan' background, with proficiency in Smith's tools. and would take the "Thief" archetype to really double down on the whole "locksmith" thing. She has an level of optimism that just CAN NOT be darkened and is friendly to absolutely everyone - Seemingly 'to a fault', but the reality is that she is VERY careful with who she trusts fully, giving just enough of herself to stop people from 'digging deeper'. I even made a figure of her on that 'Heroforge' site: www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D9734341/ ~JD
So if you find out a way to get good initiative and take a couple levels in battle master you can become a controlling monster. Expertise in sleight of hand and before battle begins no enemy has had time to draw weapons, so steal their weapon. Spellcaster? Steal either their components pouch or focus, and battle master gives you the ability to disarm with an attack and to boost initiative
I once played an arcane trickster rogue/armorer artificer. With +5 dex, proficiency at +4, advantage on stealth checks thanks to the infiltrator armor, expertise with stealth, and another party member casting "pass without trace," I got a 43 on a stealth check. By far the highest skill check of anyone that I have ever played D&D with. That was probably a year and a half ago, and we still talk about it at the table (and it isn't just me who brings it up). Unfortunately, that campaign has ended so the character is currently retired.
Another fun fast hands combo you can do is run up a wall 30 feet and pitch yourself with a climbers kit, kind of like casting levitate if the monster cant climb
I am playing a thief right now. I am open with my party about my intentions and work with them so I don't make anything worse than things already are. I like to be the "Send in the expert" kind of character instead of "Where's the imp?" kind of character. We started at level 3 and I will be happy if we reach level 5, ever. I don't have great luck finding groups who retains interest past session 5. I am a Lightfoot Halfling in stats, hellborn in flavor. Cast out of hell to survive in the material realm where I learned the virtue of teamwork. I might take the Skilled feat or anything that allows me to pick invocations (there probably is some feat for that). Invocations of Devil's Sight would be thematic. Speaking of thematic, my GM allowed swapping Proficiency in Rapier with Whip.
I recently built a thief rogue that's a combat medic. His background is a hermit and he essentially just runs around the battlefield with from the battlefield with like healing potions and healing kits to bring people up
The choice between the Rogue being torn over selfish desire and doing what's right reminded me of the best line in the animated Treasure Planet when Jim's surprised that Mr. Silver chose him over the treasure, "It was just a life-long obsession, Jim, I'll be over it shortly."
the use of acid, alchemist's fire, holy water, and oil are all actions (not attack actions)... once you take the action to splash or throw the item you get to make a ranged attack roll treating the item as an improvised weapon... the Fast Hands feature allows you to do this as a bonus action (Use an Object with Cunning Action)
In terms of hiding as in say, the whole behind the barrel scenario rather then in it. Personally, I'd allow them to roll, and based on the situation and general alert level of the guards, not to mention there facing as they go down the passageway. It wouldn't really matter if it was dark and/or guards hard darkvision. as there is a mechanic in 5e that helps balance things out called Passive and Active perception. Passive perception being the creatures Perception score (ability modifier + Proficiency (if any) +and other bonuses and penalties) + 10. Active Perception is the creatures Perception score + 1D20. As to what I meant by "Alert Level" would be based on what's going on at the time. Low Alert would just have guards patrolling around and relying on passive perception. Medium Alert would mean they are actively searching and thus making Active Perception and/or Investigation rolls. High Alert is bit of a toss up as there is likely some battle going on. So either using there Passive Perception as they keep eyes on there surroundings or, given the time, reason and available action to do so, opt to actively search around for some enemy that may have mysteriously vanished from the battlefield. Now, in terms of Facing well, depends on how much cover that barrel is giving you from the guards position, and even if the guard were to walk past the barrel, he still might not notice your there based on the direction he's facing and how alert he is. On Low Alert, the guard is likely to walk past the barrel without bothering to see whats on the other side (unless you rolled bad on stealth or he has really high Passive Perception and notices someones foot sticking out or some strange moss sticking out over the barrel). On High Alert, the guard might end up running back the barrel and not bother looking back as he's rushing to join the fray (Passive Perception might still spot you though). Medium Alert however, it might be wiser to hide in the barrel than beside it as the guard is actively searching and is most likely to find you beside the barrel rather then in it. All in all, would rule it based on the current situation, facing/cover and level of alertness, and of course if they were able to see you duck behind that barrel.
In my brothers campaign, that crit would hurt even more again, because he's house ruled that any and all crits additional damage is max possible damage. So that crit you mentioned there would be 4d6 plus 27! :-P
I am playing my Thief/Samurai again tomorrow night. I built him with the Shield Mastery feat, so I can try to knock the enemy down after my first attack, then if I succeed, Sneak Attack them with my second attack having advantage. I went Dex>Con>Wis and took expertise in Perception. (City Guard background/build) I’m kind of playing him as a medieval Agent of Shield/Torchwood/Sam or Dean.
@@leonardocamilio1206 Yeah definitely an odd build. Kind of went Roguish off-tank with him. I don’t think we had a front liner in the party at the time.
I'm not sure if you can use the bonus action shove between attacks since your attack action (the thing that triggers it) isn't complete until all your attacks are made.
@@AnaseSkyrider From the PHB: "If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield." It never says that you attack action needs to be "complete" or anything, just that you need to take suck action. Also, you can time your extra attack with other things, like movement and etc (example: attack, movement/any bonus action, attack).
@@leonardocamilio1206 Aside from the fact that Crawford's confirmed this is how it works in later sage advice (correcting a previous Twitter ruling)... it also just makes sense. If the trigger is taking the attack action, how are you shoving if you haven't taken the attack action? You haven't taken the action until you... you know... attack. Triggers typically specify if they wedge in-between things, like the Shield spell turning hits into misses (because RAW is that the damage is simultaneous to the hit), or if they occur right before some other component (such as opportunity attacks occuring between attempting to leave a square and before actually exiting it).
Aside from creating a "Thief" rogue, the notorious Arcane Trickster is my favorite rogue archetype. For the infiltration means, I chose Changeling as a race and use a point-buy rules for his ability score. I give him STR 8 / DEX 16 (+1 from race) / CON 14 / INT 8 / WIS 12 / CHA 16 (+2 from race) which make him a decietful backstabber for the enemy. I also hide my true race from my party members because changelings are a taboo race in the game we're playing, and I could be killed on sight. FYI : I also tell my friends that I am a human rogue so that I may concentrate on deceit and create an impact when I expose my true race. (My DM allow this 😉.) I take deception and insight skill from Changeling's instinct then take acrobatics, athletics, perception & persuasion from rogue. Also get sleight of hands & stealth from urchin backgrouds so I become a Decietful Arcane Trickster Rogue who can blend in any situations. I've had a blast playing this character. His name is Lés, my best DnD character. ☺
Thieve's cant is an awesome role playing tool, right now in a Ravnica's campaign we have 2 rogues and we usually speak between us with stupidly funny ways that NPC's cannot understand or we can create secret signals.
The #1 ability is use object bonus action to healing potion a downed party member and still be able to attack with a regular action or healing potion a 2nd downed party member if the shit really hits the fan. It rarely comes into play, but when it does it's absolutely clutch and S+ tier action economy.
RAW, Potions are Magical Items, and do not qualify for the "Use an Item" action of Fast Hands. Many DMs houserule to allow this though, so it's worth asking.
I was super surprised you both took Con as your 2nd ability score. This is literally the only class in the game that doesn't need a good con score to frontline or for concentration saves. Ending your turn near an enemy is VERY dangerous for a rogue because your AC will always be bad. A couple extra HP is fine, but isn't going to mitigate that, so you might as well lean into your strengths. The closet you get to melee should be moving to attack, then using your BA to disengage back behind your mestshield. Dual-wielding means not using your cunning action or careful aim, which is usually a bad idea. You should only be doing that instead of ranged attacks if the enemy is prone. With range, you can use your BA to attempt to hide instead of disengaging.
I’m just here to say I finally got my copy of Dungeons of Drakenheim in the mail. It had been so long I completely forgot and didn’t know what this package was. I had planned on doing dishes, but eh, dishes can wait
Cool idea for a video here( one of y'all comes up with the strongest good aligned party and the other other comes up with the strongest evil aligned party) maybe see what party is stronger
I'm currently running a thief rogue build based around the mobility feat, hit and run attacks, and spamming caltrops/ball bearings/oil. I play him as an adrenaline junkie stunt man prankster. I'm basically playing Johhny Knoxville
I have a plan to make a rogue that uses lots of gatgets like Batman but more aggressive. Like using ballbearings, caltrops, even Holy water and bombs. That'll help me to control the battlefiels in a small way. Plus shenanigans home alone style
So, for your understanding, the reason why you make more damage with 2d4 then with one d8 is, because (while the maximum is the same) the minimum of damage is different. With the d8 you can roll from 1 to 8. But with 2d4 you actually get 2 to 8, thus creating a higher damage output.
Especially with rogues, I feel like we gotta find archetypes that can be achieved with class abilities without following the intended play style. We know that clerics and paladins are interchangeable. Swashbuckler can be played with battlemaster levels. Battlemaster can be monk or ranger too. Druid can be full combat medic if we ditch the nature connection.
Hey Kelly and Monty, how about a beginner build video for the Oath of Vengeance paladin, which you two have both played to very high levels in each other's campaigns?!?! One of you could be a Half-Elf and the other could be a Dragonborn!!
I took a Half wood elf and took Mask of the Wild. Then took dex+1 and con+1. Rolled stats: | 14 | 17 | 17 | 14 | 15 | 16 |. Custom Background: 2 skills (deception and Slight of Hand) +1tool: (Vehicles: Land) +1 language: (infernal) picked the "Wonderer" feature. Class skills I took: Acrobatics, Athletics, Investigation, and Stealth. Expertise: Perception and Slight of Hand. ASI: Feat= Fay Touched: (Wisdom) Spell: Identify. I added the Optional Feature: Steady Aim. Weapons: Rapier, Shortbow, and Burglars Pack. My Rogue is more of a worldly dungeon diver. Likes to spend more time out in the wild's hidden dungeons and temples than be an edgy city elf that doesn't know shit about surviving in nature. (If I was a DM I would have all rogues that don't have a background in nature survival. Roll at a disadvantage while trivial across the lands in most situations.)
I've been planning ahead and writing the backstory for my rogue that I hope to one day actually play if I can find a group for a long campaign, and he's going to be either a Thief or Inquisitive rogue. A second generation cobbler and single father moonlighting as a thief to make ends meet, he was forced to flee his home city after a supposedly simple burglary commissioned by the local thieves' guild went south, and he ended up accused of being a notorious serial killer that was terrorizing the city at the time. Stuff happens, and he ends up having to abandon his close-knit group of friends and his daughter to flee as far away as possible or be executed by the city guard or maybe even a bounty hunter for being this serial killer. Then some time later he stumbles across his new adventuring party wherever that may be, and hopefully with time and in addition to the overall questing the group does, he gets to uncover what actually happened back home, deal with the actual killer, clear his name and be reunited with his daughter and friends.
And now with the One DnD unearthed arcana both hits when duel wielding is just an action opening up your bonus. Now you can hit twice, sneak attack and then disengage.
You talking about doing more damage on average with 2d4 vice 1d8 is the exact reason I use a greatsword instead of something like a greataxe with my barbarian
I want to make a Thief with the healer feat (physician), that healer's kit on bonus action sounds sweet, specially for rest healing. Background: an aristocrat medic that steals some trinckets from their patients
The thief is probably the only subclass in the game that encourages you to mess with and or search for mundane equipment. I mean the amount of stuff you can do is actually crazy because you can literally become a semi-controller while still having normal actions like attacking and what not. You can never underestimate what a bag full of ball bearings, caltrops, flasks of oil and acid can do. Heck, even the artificer until 10th level has no actual motivation to use normal equipment and even then he only gets encouragement to mess with magical items!
I'd add bells, flour, chalk and wistles to this list as well.
so you're saying 3 thief rogue / 3 inflitrator armorer artificer? I like it.
I’ve taken a couple of levels of artificer and a proficiency in alchemist’s supplies. Needless to say, there’s now a mundane object for every occasion!
I agree. The mindless Barbarian may be able to hack and slaughter their way through a tough situation, its that Rogue that makes it a possibility in the first place. Rightfully so! Rogues are every day survivors and do so un-gloriously.
I like taking healer feat as a theif so the "use an object" as a bonus action turns you into a combat medic!
Nice
That's actually a great idea
Stealth medic
Neat idea. I might try this at some point.
I've been meaning to try that if I ever play a thief rogue. It seems like a very useful way to give a damage dealer class some support capabilities.
When talking about Hiding as a Bonus Action, I think Kelly missed the opportunity to talk about his Lightfoot Halfling's Naturally Stealthy ability and when he might or might not be able to use that. I'm currently playing the pre-rolled Halfling Thief from Lost Mines of Phandelver, and my DM has let me hide behind bigger characters during fights as long as the monster is reasonably distracted by the fighting. Curious on how other DMs might rule that.
My main character is a halfling rogue and our DM has allowed essentially the same. Basically during the fight, I can roll a stealth check to hide behind another player (no real "reasonably distracted" limitation, but I assume it goes without saying). Biggest drawback is if my partymate moves.
So unfortunately even in the PHB it literally says “The DM decides when its appropriate to hide”. However as a lightfoot halfing your ability lets you hide behind ANY creature that is bigger than you. I’ve heard of DMs that let the halfing hide behind the big ogre who loses them in the fight or is infiltrating the castle. If an Elf can literally vanish and make a stealth check in dim light while someone is looking at them who says the halfling is just too small to notice?
Another mechanic in the mix is being out of sight and holding action to attack when the enemy advances into your line of sight. This is less useful when party is on offense or when you are on open terrain, but it does have its uses when not able to “hide.”
While the rules on hiding are 'up to the DM', it's important to keep game balance in mind. Before TCE gave Rogues access to Steady Aim, hiding with your bonus action was the primary way to generate advantage for your *one* attack per round that you get.
The best way to look at the 'hiding behind a rock' scenario is NOT the Skyrim-logic of "You don't know where I am". At your table, if you want to pop out, stab someone, and then run away and hide, you COULD look at it as the hiding retroactively making your previous actions that quick and stealthy that the enemy didn't know where you were, but more practically...
Regardless of whether the enemy knows where you are or not, being hidden means they cannot 'clearly see you', and gives you that advantage on attacks. That's all it means. An enemy *can* always just walk around the rock and 'clearly see you' to break your stealth, but if they are engaged with your fighter/paladin/barbarian friend, doing this whack a mole strategy just means you're so quick and sneaky with your attacks that they cannot easily react to you popping in and out of cover, and that's why you have advantage.
If an enemy wants to pursue the rogue who is hiding behind the rock, that's fine, because all being hidden was doing was disguising your next attack and your movement to make you sneaky. They're allowed to remember your last known position. But they can't see you popping out of cover very well.
I agree, the ways to gain advantage on attacks are so numerous and easy that Rogues are expected to land their sneak attack conditions every turn. That's what they do, and if they don't they're worse than a Fighter. If the DM doesn't allow this, the DM doesn't want Rogue to have fun
Great video. Love Thieves. My go to Feat for them is definitely Martial Adept in orther to use Disarming Strike against a weapon-wielding enemy, then Fast Hands to snag their weapon from the ground on the same turn.
Oooh I really like this idea. I was just wondering how you might pull something like that off. It feels very Rogue-ish. I haven't played around with Martial adept much though so it didn't come to mind. Thanks for sharing!
Cool idea, but is Fast Hands even needed for this? I think picking an item/weapon up from the ground is considered a "free action", so you should theoretically still be able to use your bonus action Fast Hands or Cunning Action for something else (maybe even an offhand attack with the weapon you just picked up?).
@@sektorispiar2988 Yeah, makes sense. But since picking up stuff from the ground isn't explicitly listed in the Free Object Interaction stuff, I tend to go with this to be safe. Depending on your DM you might not need Fast Hands for this.
I like your guides. I started playing dnd after watching your videos about the character classes and they helped me understanding what they can do and what is possible to make.
It looks like that 15 went rogue. 😂😂
Hey Dungeon Dudes! Here's a like and comment for the algorithm. Thanks for all the amazing D&D content!
With Monty's build, depending on party composition, I would consider the ritual caster feat(wizard) gaining Alarm, and Detect Magic as ritual spells to improve on the perception theme. At the first opportunity, I'd add Find Familiar(delayed because of the material cost) and Comprehend Languages to the ritual book. Leomund's Tiny Hut at 5th level is a definite goal. Supplementing the thief's skills with magic also fits the high elf theme. I would still take Elven Accuracy, just at a higher level.
First-timer friend: I want to play D&D.
Me: Okay, here’s Dungeon dudes playlist.
I know most of the rogue subclasses like the back of my hand, but it was still enjoyable just listening to you guys describe my favorite subclass (due to my love of old AD&D thieves and assassins) while painting up a mini for my new thief. His name is Jackalope Higgins
6:35 I like how the 15 is over the Monty/Kelly instead of below dexterity, really gives it character
Grabbing three levels of Bard gets you another Expertise feature AND Jack of All Trades.
Four skills with Expertise and half proficiency bonus, rounded down, on everything else is insanely good.
Great video. I'd love to see where you go with both characters to lvl 20. I'm currently playing a "Karmic" Thief. This is a trope where you only steal from bad people, but unlike robin hood where you give to the poor, you keep it for yourself. It's a fun middle ground so you don't need to steal from your companions (which annoys everyone) but can still dastardly enough to run your paladin friend the wrong way lol.
He's more of a gentleman thief (Think Lupin). I love the Thief subclass as I like the challenge of not having to rely on magic. In fact, my character has a strong distrust of it.
Great stuff as always, keep up the great work.
I really wish the use magic device feature came online sooner. It is an awesome ability to have, but in most campaigns your barely going to have the chance to take advantage of it.
It is so weird to see someone make a video without using the not-so-optional rules presented in tasha and am extremely grateful for that, as that is the way we play at the tables i run and play in. That fact alone has picked my interest to see other vids of this series (i was already watching some of your other vids anyways, but wasnt really gonna watch the builds until now)
I'd love to see both of your takes on thief rouges with a full build! Thief is so versatile and I'm always looking for unique ways to build them
I'm glad you guys are doing these beginner series. It really helps newcomers get acquainted with the class mechanics.
Taking proficiency in Alchemist's Tools can play like Rorschach, letting you reliably nail someone with Sneak Attack and douse them with drain cleaner, oil, or homemade incendiaries with a bonus action.
I love these beginner builds you dudes started. I already know how to do all of this, but I was able to show this to my dad who hasn't played since First Edition. I also like this style for even the other builds you've been doing because of how thoroughly you explain the features of both the class and subclass.
The one time I got to play a rogue, it was as a Scout archetype with the City Wacth background. I envisioned them as an archer well-versed in working with others, able to stand on the backlines and land Sneak Attacks because of their training with the local city guards. It was a Rogue who did not brood or lone wolf, but instead reveled in their chance to add hard-hitting arrows to a fight, and help investigate what was causing the local disturbances.
Your last few notes on how to role-play are exactly what I was aiming for, and I'm glad you're pushing that over the typical brooding rogue who sits in the corner.
Fantastic video… love this series and hope you guys keep pumping them out.
These beginner-builds are such a good idea. Most def going to use these as instruction-videos for new players. Keep up the good work dudes!
Played a thief rogue in my first campaign ever and i was such a dnd novice!!! i would have benefited so greatly from watching this video and especially from hearing the advice about working together with your party and not just being brooding and standoffish. I probably would have had a much better first experience with roleplay. Awesome video guys!
I like the way you two explained sneak attack. I was not quite getting it before, now it makes much more sense, both mechanically and the in-game reason why it exists. (I'm new to 5e, but not D&D, coming back after a long hiatus)
Welcome back to the game!
I think my favourite segment is towards the end when they mention that their character is still a team player, that's important :) Good stuff, Dudes!
A player in my current campaign is playing a Tabaxi Assassin Rogue, and given the fact she's the only non-magic user in the party I decided to give her a little oomph by giving her an Assassin's Creed like Hidden Blade that can be modified with different things, gives a little flavor and lets her have something cool to play around with.
Ah, so the Eberron Armblade (Dagger), minus the part where it's only for a warforged?
@@AnaseSkyrider actually more of a homebrew I found online. I adapted it for our game and gave it the possibility to be customized for a price of course. Right now it's basically a hidden dagger, but you get advantage on sleight of hand checks to stow it, a 1LR 3d4 bonus if you manage an assassination. My player chose to customize it with a hidden crossbow (hand crossbow), poison blade (1 damage but can be coated and/or used as a syringe) and a poison crossbow with a lower range than the regular hand crossbow. And finally a small compartment for one use smoke canisters that create a smoke cloud. Canisters are 20 gold a pop due to their complexity, and 40 gold if she wants to have custom canisters (ie: poison clouds with different effects).
She wanted to lean in heavy into the poisoner assassin, so I obliged.
Might have mentioned that you get sneak attack damage on opportunity attacks as well as it is a different turn. As you went in depth on disengage.
I allowed a rogue to use the Hide in a face-to-face combat (with a quite high TN), he used it to get behind the enemy or other combat trick, on other times when they were fighting with a dragon he used it to hide under the dragon and get out of the sight of it, so he could land a nice sneak attack. It was a very fun experience to DM the fight with the player who described what he is doing exactly.
As a DM I really like this style of video. Gives me a crash course on what my players may choose and what to expect. keep em coming!
Thanks guys! Very informative! I just subscribed. I am new to DnD and am creating my first character, a cute little red-headed female lightfoot halfling Rogue/thief.
I love your guys passion, its awesome and contagious. As for rogues? At lower levels they are critical to basic combat, lose such at Middle levels and gain it back in spades at higher levels. Why? Because at higher levels, the only way your party is annihilated is from impetuous sixth level hack and slaughter mentality. While this may, for example carry you through a "Temple of Elemental Evil" it will NOT carry you through a "Tomb of Horrors".
I know it’s pretty simple but this is my favorite song class! Thanks for the video!
Would be nice to mention in the video some nice ways to use Swift hands, like oil flask as a weak bonus action ranged attack or healer kit with healer feat
My current rogue build is amazing, though multiclassed one level thus far. Tabaxi scout rogue investigator. Playing him like a bounty hunter. Currently sitting at lvl 11, 10 rogue 1 fighter has a +12 attack bonus(ranged using revolver from dms guide) 6 expertise skills 4 of which are above +10. He really saved the party with his survival and nature skills durring exploration. Feats taken are gunner, skill expert, and sharpshooter. Was gifted magical gunpowder by the dm.
I’m currently playing a Swashbuckler/Swords Bard multi-class. It’s some of the most fun I’ve ever had playing D&D. And this makes for an amazing Gish multi-class.
The only additional thing I may do is add another multi-class with Hexblade Warlock just to give me that even slighter edge in combat as well as Eldridge Blast
Hexblade is an amazing multiclass for swashbuckler, to the point it’s tough to know when to stop dipping. But I’d be hesitant to do so after already multiclassing elsewhere. Every level you take is an opportunity cost. Eldritch blast in particular needs a number of warlock levels to really kick off, won’t get sneak attack, and you’d lose out on some invocations that would be very cool to have as a rogue. (Consider Magic Stone cantrip and a sling, though you’ll need to work it out w/ the DM just in case they’re picky).
Some cool things you can do w/ hex-buckler though... You probably already know about using charisma for attacks. Booming blade cantrip, sneak attack, + swashbuckler’s footwork is amazing. Invocations such as Misty Visions and Mask of Many have incredible potential w/ expertise in Deception. (Actor feat can take this even further, but consider your campaign.) Could also go Devil Sight if social interactions aren’t so much an issue. Pact of the Chain gives you access to very easy sneak attacks with an invisible helper. (You could do this with other familiars, but it seems easier to make the DM want to off your pets if they don’t have the excuse of being invisible.)
Haven't been able to support the patreon lately but wanted to say that I received my book and things and am so ready to start running this game!!!!
I enjoyed my first module rogue (Scout). Deep gnome for an Out of the Abyss game. Leaned into being the scout and skill guy that knew enough about nature to keep his companions alive in the Underdark.
You two are the best! I love all the RPG knowledge delivered by these dudes, but wouldn't be the same without the cool interactions between them.
I swear litterally every time I'm about to build a character, you guys post a video about the class I was going to make them.
Admittedly I haven't played much 5e, and I like the scoundrel rogue idea. I was also thinking of adding a club to the weapons, because sometimes you don't want to kill, just subdue or knock out the guard. I also like to add a couple of items to most of my character's inventories. Namely, Signal whistle, steel mirror, and chalk. Signal whistle to communicate or create a distraction, a mirror for signaling or observing something without giving away your position, and chalk for marking your way through an unfamiliar area, drawing a layout of some place you've scouted, or to leave messages for the rest of your party.
At 25:15, Monty says that, on average, 2d4 is more damage than 1d8. That's exactly right. Of course, the probability of doing maximum damage (i.e., 8) with 1d8 is higher than the probability of doing maximum damage with 2d4:
1d8: p(8) = 1/8 = 0.1250 = 12.50%
2d4: p(4) x p(4) = 1/16 = 0.0625 = 06.25%.
But the average damage of 2d4 is nonetheless higher than the average damage of 1d8. We can calculate this with the dice average formula, where N is the total number of dice and M is the maximum value of each die:
((M+1)/2)∗N = average score.
That gives us the following for 1d8 and 2d4:
1d8: ((8+1)/2)∗1 = 4.5
2d4: ((4+1)/2)*2 = 5.
So, the average damage of 1d8 is 4.5 and the average damage of 2d4 is 5.
My first DnD character was a Thief Rogue. Man I miss playing that character. Definitely wasn't optimized but I had so much fun.
My first 5th ED character is a Halfling/Thief/ Rogue . I wanted to go basic in my first 5th ed character. I love him , when I get a Crit its like nuke went off. I went with the stout halfling to get a boost in Con. A ring of Darkvision really hellps to.
I'm playing a thief right now, and we're using the reduced rest rule (one day is a short rest, one week for long rest). I hadn't thought about it when making the character, but my mastery over skills is extremely valueable.
I never played a Rogue, so this video was awesome for inspiration
I too like to have Monty as my highest stat
it's so clear and supportive for new players
Yay I got my Dungeons of Drakkenheim book!!! Thanks dudes!
That flow chart at 22:06 is awesome.
My physical copy of Dungeons of Drakkenheim arrived today, gonna run it as soon as we finish with our current campaign
In a futuristic campaign, using a pulse rifle with the brutal feature totaling 5d8 on a crit, I crit a sneak attack with it and dealt something like 35 on the attack before sneak damage and then another 25 in sneak. Helped expedite that combat along lol
Halfing Rogue/Thief is my favorite character. It's classic, packs a good punch in combat, and there's so many things you can do out of combat.
In regards to dice math: rolling 1d8 means you have the same odds of dealing any number between 1-8. Whereas rolling 2d4 turns your dmg charts from just a straight line of probability into a small bell curve. Your max and min will happen less often, but the average will be higher.
Lucky is really good... but you do have to remember to use it :)
And Monty’s beard is majestic
My first Rouge Thief was a Tabaxi. It was super fun! :)
Skip the second shortsword and go with the bow and arrows. You can dual wield just wine with one of the daggers and a shortsword and the bow adds a lot of versatility.
Ahh, "Rogues"... Fun... Here is mine:
Ruby "Silver" Argenti was born to shopkeeper parents who specialised in all maner of homewares. Her father blended smithing and carpentry to make metal fittings, locks, and completed chests. Her mother leaned more to the decorative side of things, making silver candlesticks, mirrors, and other more aesthetically pleasing items. Ruby was raised helping out both of her parents doing their tasks, deloping and knack for fine detail, and an avaricious eye for anything made of Silver (even if more "valuable" things were availible). More than once she would see her farther getting yelled at by upset customers trying to blame him after their valuable had been stollen from chests/safes/etc that he had made, and this gave Ruby her focus, and her dream - To design an un-pickable lock! She would work with her father to make this happen, combining novel designs and exotic materials, and creating numerous designs... But no matter how hard they tried, each new design was targeted and circumvented, sometimes in a matter of mere days... Rather than getting upset, Ruby got motivated and decided to infiltrate the local 'Theives Guild' and find out how they were doing it from the inside. So she faked a story about running away from home 'to join the winning team' and sold her skills at making both locks and lock-picks (A side effect of testing her previous creations). That they in turn taught her the 'tricks of the trade' was a bonus... As was the fact that she now had the perfect excuse to steal as much Silver as she could get her hands on!
As a result, Ruby has the 'Artisan' background, with proficiency in Smith's tools. and would take the "Thief" archetype to really double down on the whole "locksmith" thing. She has an level of optimism that just CAN NOT be darkened and is friendly to absolutely everyone - Seemingly 'to a fault', but the reality is that she is VERY careful with who she trusts fully, giving just enough of herself to stop people from 'digging deeper'.
I even made a figure of her on that 'Heroforge' site: www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D9734341/
~JD
So if you find out a way to get good initiative and take a couple levels in battle master you can become a controlling monster. Expertise in sleight of hand and before battle begins no enemy has had time to draw weapons, so steal their weapon. Spellcaster? Steal either their components pouch or focus, and battle master gives you the ability to disarm with an attack and to boost initiative
great job as usual guys! live out your bilbo baggins fantasy!
I once played an arcane trickster rogue/armorer artificer. With +5 dex, proficiency at +4, advantage on stealth checks thanks to the infiltrator armor, expertise with stealth, and another party member casting "pass without trace," I got a 43 on a stealth check. By far the highest skill check of anyone that I have ever played D&D with.
That was probably a year and a half ago, and we still talk about it at the table (and it isn't just me who brings it up).
Unfortunately, that campaign has ended so the character is currently retired.
Just a question, how do you manage feat like "skulker" when hiding in the dark? Is the character still in "plain sight"?
Another fun fast hands combo you can do is run up a wall 30 feet and pitch yourself with a climbers kit, kind of like casting levitate if the monster cant climb
I am playing a thief right now. I am open with my party about my intentions and work with them so I don't make anything worse than things already are. I like to be the "Send in the expert" kind of character instead of "Where's the imp?" kind of character.
We started at level 3 and I will be happy if we reach level 5, ever. I don't have great luck finding groups who retains interest past session 5.
I am a Lightfoot Halfling in stats, hellborn in flavor. Cast out of hell to survive in the material realm where I learned the virtue of teamwork. I might take the Skilled feat or anything that allows me to pick invocations (there probably is some feat for that). Invocations of Devil's Sight would be thematic. Speaking of thematic, my GM allowed swapping Proficiency in Rapier with Whip.
I recently built a thief rogue that's a combat medic. His background is a hermit and he essentially just runs around the battlefield with from the battlefield with like healing potions and healing kits to bring people up
The choice between the Rogue being torn over selfish desire and doing what's right reminded me of the best line in the animated Treasure Planet when Jim's surprised that Mr. Silver chose him over the treasure,
"It was just a life-long obsession, Jim, I'll be over it shortly."
the use of acid, alchemist's fire, holy water, and oil are all actions (not attack actions)...
once you take the action to splash or throw the item you get to make a ranged attack roll treating the item as an improvised weapon...
the Fast Hands feature allows you to do this as a bonus action (Use an Object with Cunning Action)
360k subs, it feels like 60k like a year ago. Keep it up dudes
In terms of hiding as in say, the whole behind the barrel scenario rather then in it. Personally, I'd allow them to roll, and based on the situation and general alert level of the guards, not to mention there facing as they go down the passageway. It wouldn't really matter if it was dark and/or guards hard darkvision. as there is a mechanic in 5e that helps balance things out called Passive and Active perception.
Passive perception being the creatures Perception score (ability modifier + Proficiency (if any) +and other bonuses and penalties) + 10.
Active Perception is the creatures Perception score + 1D20.
As to what I meant by "Alert Level" would be based on what's going on at the time. Low Alert would just have guards patrolling around and relying on passive perception. Medium Alert would mean they are actively searching and thus making Active Perception and/or Investigation rolls. High Alert is bit of a toss up as there is likely some battle going on. So either using there Passive Perception as they keep eyes on there surroundings or, given the time, reason and available action to do so, opt to actively search around for some enemy that may have mysteriously vanished from the battlefield.
Now, in terms of Facing well, depends on how much cover that barrel is giving you from the guards position, and even if the guard were to walk past the barrel, he still might not notice your there based on the direction he's facing and how alert he is. On Low Alert, the guard is likely to walk past the barrel without bothering to see whats on the other side (unless you rolled bad on stealth or he has really high Passive Perception and notices someones foot sticking out or some strange moss sticking out over the barrel). On High Alert, the guard might end up running back the barrel and not bother looking back as he's rushing to join the fray (Passive Perception might still spot you though). Medium Alert however, it might be wiser to hide in the barrel than beside it as the guard is actively searching and is most likely to find you beside the barrel rather then in it.
All in all, would rule it based on the current situation, facing/cover and level of alertness, and of course if they were able to see you duck behind that barrel.
Heads up guys, the 15 isn't in the right place. It's hovering over your names
MONTY 15!!!!
I always put 15 in my Monty stat
@@zerix8073 15 in Monty is pretty op
In my brothers campaign, that crit would hurt even more again, because he's house ruled that any and all crits additional damage is max possible damage. So that crit you mentioned there would be 4d6 plus 27! :-P
I am playing my Thief/Samurai again tomorrow night. I built him with the Shield Mastery feat, so I can try to knock the enemy down after my first attack, then if I succeed, Sneak Attack them with my second attack having advantage.
I went Dex>Con>Wis and took expertise in Perception. (City Guard background/build)
I’m kind of playing him as a medieval Agent of Shield/Torchwood/Sam or Dean.
That seems lots of fun, though it is really suboptimal, especially because you won't be able to use the thief's bonus action a lot
@@leonardocamilio1206 Yeah definitely an odd build. Kind of went Roguish off-tank with him. I don’t think we had a front liner in the party at the time.
I'm not sure if you can use the bonus action shove between attacks since your attack action (the thing that triggers it) isn't complete until all your attacks are made.
@@AnaseSkyrider From the PHB: "If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield."
It never says that you attack action needs to be "complete" or anything, just that you need to take suck action. Also, you can time your extra attack with other things, like movement and etc (example: attack, movement/any bonus action, attack).
@@leonardocamilio1206 Aside from the fact that Crawford's confirmed this is how it works in later sage advice (correcting a previous Twitter ruling)... it also just makes sense. If the trigger is taking the attack action, how are you shoving if you haven't taken the attack action? You haven't taken the action until you... you know... attack.
Triggers typically specify if they wedge in-between things, like the Shield spell turning hits into misses (because RAW is that the damage is simultaneous to the hit), or if they occur right before some other component (such as opportunity attacks occuring between attempting to leave a square and before actually exiting it).
Just got my copy of dungeons of drakkenheim today and since I have not been able to sleep I have been reading it.
Aside from creating a "Thief" rogue, the notorious Arcane Trickster is my favorite rogue archetype. For the infiltration means, I chose Changeling as a race and use a point-buy rules for his ability score.
I give him STR 8 / DEX 16 (+1 from race) / CON 14 / INT 8 / WIS 12 / CHA 16 (+2 from race) which make him a decietful backstabber for the enemy. I also hide my true race from my party members because changelings are a taboo race in the game we're playing, and I could be killed on sight. FYI : I also tell my friends that I am a human rogue so that I may concentrate on deceit and create an impact when I expose my true race. (My DM allow this 😉.)
I take deception and insight skill from Changeling's instinct then take acrobatics, athletics, perception & persuasion from rogue. Also get sleight of hands & stealth from urchin backgrouds so I become a Decietful Arcane Trickster Rogue who can blend in any situations.
I've had a blast playing this character. His name is Lés, my best DnD character. ☺
This series is sublime!
Thieve's cant is an awesome role playing tool, right now in a Ravnica's campaign we have 2 rogues and we usually speak between us with stupidly funny ways that NPC's cannot understand or we can create secret signals.
The #1 ability is use object bonus action to healing potion a downed party member and still be able to attack with a regular action or healing potion a 2nd downed party member if the shit really hits the fan. It rarely comes into play, but when it does it's absolutely clutch and S+ tier action economy.
RAW, Potions are Magical Items, and do not qualify for the "Use an Item" action of Fast Hands. Many DMs houserule to allow this though, so it's worth asking.
I was super surprised you both took Con as your 2nd ability score. This is literally the only class in the game that doesn't need a good con score to frontline or for concentration saves.
Ending your turn near an enemy is VERY dangerous for a rogue because your AC will always be bad. A couple extra HP is fine, but isn't going to mitigate that, so you might as well lean into your strengths.
The closet you get to melee should be moving to attack, then using your BA to disengage back behind your mestshield. Dual-wielding means not using your cunning action or careful aim, which is usually a bad idea. You should only be doing that instead of ranged attacks if the enemy is prone. With range, you can use your BA to attempt to hide instead of disengaging.
I’m just here to say I finally got my copy of Dungeons of Drakenheim in the mail. It had been so long I completely forgot and didn’t know what this package was. I had planned on doing dishes, but eh, dishes can wait
Poor goblins. :(
But another great video, making Rogues sound compelling and teeming with possibilities. I may even have to make one myself.
I hope we get a guide on the Arcane Trickster. The whole half caster thing can get a little confusing.
Cool idea for a video here( one of y'all comes up with the strongest good aligned party and the other other comes up with the strongest evil aligned party) maybe see what party is stronger
I'm currently running a thief rogue build based around the mobility feat, hit and run attacks, and spamming caltrops/ball bearings/oil. I play him as an adrenaline junkie stunt man prankster. I'm basically playing Johhny Knoxville
Thief pairs well with an artificer in the party once they get spell storing item.
Spell storing item is an object interaction.
I think the 13th level ability of a Thief is super useful. I also love the thought of stealing mid-combat using their Fast-hands.
I have a plan to make a rogue that uses lots of gatgets like Batman but more aggressive. Like using ballbearings, caltrops, even Holy water and bombs. That'll help me to control the battlefiels in a small way. Plus shenanigans home alone style
Kelly’s hair is on point today!
Still haven't played a rogue. I really look forward to playing a reformed rogue with heart of gold.
So, for your understanding, the reason why you make more damage with 2d4 then with one d8 is, because (while the maximum is the same) the minimum of damage is different. With the d8 you can roll from 1 to 8.
But with 2d4 you actually get 2 to 8, thus creating a higher damage output.
Especially with rogues, I feel like we gotta find archetypes that can be achieved with class abilities without following the intended play style.
We know that clerics and paladins are interchangeable.
Swashbuckler can be played with battlemaster levels.
Battlemaster can be monk or ranger too.
Druid can be full combat medic if we ditch the nature connection.
Hey Kelly and Monty, how about a beginner build video for the Oath of Vengeance paladin, which you two have both played to very high levels in each other's campaigns?!?! One of you could be a Half-Elf and the other could be a Dragonborn!!
I took a Half wood elf and took Mask of the Wild. Then took dex+1 and con+1. Rolled stats: | 14 | 17 | 17 | 14 | 15 | 16 |. Custom Background: 2 skills (deception and Slight of Hand) +1tool: (Vehicles: Land) +1 language: (infernal) picked the "Wonderer" feature. Class skills I took: Acrobatics, Athletics, Investigation, and Stealth. Expertise: Perception and Slight of Hand. ASI: Feat= Fay Touched: (Wisdom) Spell: Identify. I added the Optional Feature: Steady Aim. Weapons: Rapier, Shortbow, and Burglars Pack.
My Rogue is more of a worldly dungeon diver. Likes to spend more time out in the wild's hidden dungeons and temples than be an edgy city elf that doesn't know shit about surviving in nature. (If I was a DM I would have all rogues that don't have a background in nature survival. Roll at a disadvantage while trivial across the lands in most situations.)
I've been planning ahead and writing the backstory for my rogue that I hope to one day actually play if I can find a group for a long campaign, and he's going to be either a Thief or Inquisitive rogue. A second generation cobbler and single father moonlighting as a thief to make ends meet, he was forced to flee his home city after a supposedly simple burglary commissioned by the local thieves' guild went south, and he ended up accused of being a notorious serial killer that was terrorizing the city at the time.
Stuff happens, and he ends up having to abandon his close-knit group of friends and his daughter to flee as far away as possible or be executed by the city guard or maybe even a bounty hunter for being this serial killer. Then some time later he stumbles across his new adventuring party wherever that may be, and hopefully with time and in addition to the overall questing the group does, he gets to uncover what actually happened back home, deal with the actual killer, clear his name and be reunited with his daughter and friends.
Love the videos guys
that tales from the crypt shirt is fire
Great job lads
Their video is great
And now with the One DnD unearthed arcana both hits when duel wielding is just an action opening up your bonus. Now you can hit twice, sneak attack and then disengage.
You talking about doing more damage on average with 2d4 vice 1d8 is the exact reason I use a greatsword instead of something like a greataxe with my barbarian
I want to make a Thief with the healer feat (physician), that healer's kit on bonus action sounds sweet, specially for rest healing.
Background: an aristocrat medic that steals some trinckets from their patients