The “maybe she doesn’t have what it takes to be a pop star” is the same vibe as “if you don’t want me to hit on you then why are you dressed like that?”
YOU ATE THIS UP. wow. yes. instead of adjusting to a new, healthy celebrity culture. people don't see you as HUMAN. they literally think they belong to you. some celebs are okay with this and some aren't. let's respect the people who aren't.
Normalize leaving celebrities alone while they are out trying to live their lives. If they are walking down the street getting a coffee, they aren't working. If they are greeting fans after a concert, they are working. Leave people alone.
I was once in a pub in London that has a co-working area, and I saw Lewis Capaldi walk in with two friends. I just tried not to stare at him and carried on with my work. He’s been very open about his mental health and his struggles with fame, and he deserves to be able to go out for a pint with his mates and not be harassed. I didn’t notice anyone approach him, and he looked really happy.
I always hate it when somebody does get called out, they give out some bs reasons like "they know what they were signing up for" or "who cares? They are rich", as if that's suppose to justify them not treating celebs like the humans they are
RIGHT? People will be acting fully crazy and everyone else will just shrug and be like, “well it’s a celebrity… so that’s just normal.” Hot take but I feel like this behavior isn’t as controversial as it should because most people do actually feel entitled to something from a celebrity if they encounter them, even if it’s just a few moments of their time. How do I know? I recently realized that I also felt that way and had to unpack that shit. Doesn’t matter how well you try to think things through or how conscientious you are. Wrong-headed bullshit can still sneak in from time to time so stay vigilant to your own minds everybody. Especially before you try to go policing anyone else.
Saying abuse and harassment is the price of fame is fuckin wild 😒 yet another reason why we all should be taught about consent AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE smh
There’s literally a bunch of weirdos in these comments rn making excuses as to why other human beings don’t deserve the same basic human rights to their own space and time just because of being famous or on a public stage and it’s legit disgusting. I’m just going to assume they’re all delulu fans of their own and instead of looking in the mirror they’re being keyboard warriors here 🤷
That's also not call every single freaking thing under the sun abuse and harassment... Geez🤨. Some of this is this person just being freaking annoyed at all the attention and their name being yelled out and random people asking them for something whether it is a selfie or an autograph or whatever. That request is 🚫 NOT harassment.
I live in the US and everyone is taught from k-12th grade to keep theirs hands, feet and objects to yourself. Most people are fully aware of the treatment they would not like and should ask for consent to do. However, the adult mindset of doing whatever you want plus drugs/alcohol makes people forget the common sense the school system and their parents tried to instill early on
@LS-gy9bq she's literally being stalked and harassed, and yes being verbally abused by the public for telling everyone to stop stalking and harassing her is abuse
someone brought up christina grimmie who was murdered by a fan who asked for a hug. so screw everyone saying chappell should be grateful and take any abuse and any fan interaction if they’re “nice” to her. i’m sure most if not all these artists feel this way but is fearful of being attacked by their fans or naysayers. good for her speaking up
Been waiting for your commentary on this. What’s crazy is how people are making it seem like Chappell is some mean diva for wanting boundaries and basic respect. Parasocial relationships have gotten so much worse in the last few years, stan culture is insufferable
@@sushiroll3795 the term "stan" comes from the Eminem song of the same name. It doesn't originally mean "stalker fan", although it's a pretty good coincidence
Fans who employ the “She OWES us her time for making her famous” are dangerously close to “She OWES me sex because I paid for her dinner” y’all aren’t owed anything. You’re just abusive
@@bassekaman8315are you personally so delusional of a person that you think being a fan means you get to invade another human beings personal space, time, and comfort? Clown.
I love that Chappelle Roan put it so bluntly and I'm inclined to agree. It's especially painful seeing Justin Bieber being villainized for protecting his kids from filming when he has had to deal with being filmed in so many compromising positions as a young person. I'm not even a fan of his and yet I know things about him that I frankly shouldn't. Having to operate in society like that-- and ultimately feeling strongly about protecting your family from it. Like. That in itself isn't a crime. I'll never forget when Jeanette McCurdy went on the record to say that someone tried to make her sign an autograph as a teenager from underneath a bathroom stall. Fucking abhorrent and criminal behavior.
Probably the only times I've felt genuinely bad for Justin Beiber, is watching him repeatedly and tearfully asking his insane fans to respect his privacy, boundaries, and family in paparazzi videos....he's been asking for this commom respect amd decency he was a teen. It's no wonder he now suffers from severe anxiety and depression
@@ptlovelight2971it really is no wonder. I was never a fan but learning about what he's been going through since he was young really makes me feel for the guy.
fame idols are coming to an end in the next few decades. and i'm living for it. i think it's high time we appreciate art and artists without worshiping or parasocially connecting to them.
@@meepinandmorpin how do you think social media will affect that achievemnt? so far it has only aided in growing these parasocial relationships that people think they have
imo as social media keeps evolving, parasocial relationships are only going to get _worse_ social platforms are constantly finding new ways to keep users hooked, making it harder to tell the difference between real and curated content, especially as algorithms are being designed to show us exactly what we want (or _who_ we want), making it easy to feel connected to influencers, celebrities, and even AI-driven personas.
@@prrsun It hasn't grown, only revealed what was already there; many of these type of folk didn't have social media to express their obsessive nature, or keep track of where their gods were most of the time back in the day, but when a celeb goes out in public, you still had those fanatics that would practically claw at the person's face just to get a touch.
But social media hasn't aided that. Para social relationships were waaaay worse before social media. Fans were wild back then. There's a reason Eminem wrote stan.@@prrsun
And especially with Roan since she's been so open about how difficult she's found the meteoric rise to fame. She literally cried onstage. She's not well rn and people need to give her some space.
the situation with Chappell's family being doxxed was done by an admin of one of the biggest Chappell fan pages on instagram. the person doxxing Chappell is hiding behind the other admins like a coward. it's so gross.
These people really need to have the heaviest law book thrown at them. I really can't imagine having my family made uncomfortable because some obsessive freak can't find ANYTHING better to do with their life than invade spaces and lives they KNOW they have no right or reason to access. GET A LITTLE HOBBY!
I worked in theatre and at performance venues for at least a decade, and let me tell you, performers absolutely HATE it when "fans" come up to them when they are doing normal human things like eating at a restaurant or going shopping or using the restroom, there is a time and a place, and those kinds of things are not the place or time to invade their space, lol. But this whole thing reminds me of this time I was going to see a concert, don't remember the band, but they happened to be at the same restaurant as me and the person I was with before their gig started, and the person I was with really really wanted to go up to them while they were eating to go say hi and maybe get a selfie or something, and I tried to stay calm but I was like absolutely not, you might have a good memory, but they are just gonna be annoyed, and the person I was with was like "well it's the life they signed up for", I was like, um, that's not how celebrity and notoriety work, they can't be "on" all the time, they are still people, human beings, and I dragged the person I was with out of that restaurant as fast as I could.
it's about consent... you understand they have times where they consent to interactions with others & times where they should be expected to be left alone. unless a person is purposefully creating an event for fan interactions, then they should be left alone & that shouldn't be controversial at all.
Full stop agree! It’s like ever since social media threw out online etiquette for communication boundaries, people take that behavior offline and apply it to anyone famous. And the best analogy I can give on this: I bet you fans hated it as teenagers when their parents invade their private spaces, asked too many questions, asked for too many prom photos or first day of school photos, right? If they could only understand the same feeling they got from their parents doing that, not understanding letting them have their teenage independence, is the same feeling famous people get from fans who can’t “read the room” for boundaries in public & go running up to them at times that are inappropriate to bother them.
Not same lvl of celeb but I saw Rhett and a bunch of the rest of the Mythical Crew after DCs pride at a lesbian/gay bar (insane) and I watched Josh and some others get into the venue right before us and apologize profusely then made eye contact with Rhett inside and freaked out just a little to my friends but didn’t go up to them at all. Half of me wishes I did because after I realized they were there for their tour (felt like i was going insane cause why were they in DC😭😭). Anyways. I’ve been watching them since childhood and half regret not speaking to them but seeing they actually exist felt like enough. Ik this isn’t that relevant but I rlly wanted to share this
Partially true..... because once the fame runs out and the people stop bothering them.... a lot of them go the other way and get enraged and entitled when people DON'T recognize them lololol. Celebrities are just as fucked up as their creepy fans haha.
2:26 counterpoint to this argument is: if you can't treat the artist whose work you enjoy with respect and dignity, maybe you don't have what it takes to be a fan and you should stop listening to music.
Celebrity worship needs to end, along with all other forms of hierarchy that exist just for hierarchy's sake, so we can have a truly egalitarian society.
Your analogy of creepy people in bars thinking they're entitled to others attention because they offered to buy a drink for them is SPOT ON. Just because somebody is preoccupied with something else, it's NOT disrespectful of them to be like "oh sorry, no not right now." The world of social media has me feeling this too, and I only have like 1.5k followers on instagram, and I HATE how much it's made me feel like I'm always "accessible" to people, like if I even open my instagram I see DMs from people I don't know that well and if I don't reply then I'm a snooty little snob like what?? Worst of all, if I vent about it as nicely as I can on my main page, I get sarcastic DMs from those same people like "oh it must suck to be soooo popular poor you" like no it sucks that people think I'm always available to them every time I check my social media when I DON'T KNOW YOU
Listen, I grew up before social media was a thing & can honestly say that you are in control of setting a boundary of when you CHOOSE to socially engage. If people can not respect this? They do not respect you and are leeching off of you. Move anyone in DM’s to request DM’s that you do not follow back so they get the hint that you ONLY respond to people you follow.
I once had someone on social media get upset because I didn't reply with in an hour. Not only is that unreasonable at the best of times but it was literally 3am in my country when they sent that. I was sleeping
*I"m glad you put this here, I recently had a friend get mad I didn't view their story. I don't view anyone's stories because, I have 10+ dms to go through minimum , it's overwhelming. I just want 2 look at a meme to laugh and I'm done.*
The whole Doja Cat situation really woke me up to this. We don’t know these people and they don’t owe us anything. We can just enjoy their music and leave them be.
I’ve always found it low-key embarrassing to be near celebrities. Like…I know so much about you (birthday, kids names, dating history) and you have no idea who I am.
I think it’s so baffling how even influencers deal with this. Drew Afualo recently had an incident where a “fan” of hers had claimed she had a bad interaction with Drew at the airport. This fan then went immediately to TikTok to air her grievances. She was upset that Drew and her family said no to taking a picture with her at the airport. They were late to their flight and the fan knew this and still complained. The fan’s tiktok comments then became a space for many of Drew’s haters to finally have a reason to hate on her more. It took Drew to clarify in her own posts as to why they were running late (TSA being assholes) and her family curtly but politely said no. Drew had to set even more boundaries on her podcast asking fans to not film her and not ask for pictures from her family members. I find it no coincidence that Chappell was recently on Drew’s podcast the Comment Section to talk about fans being weird and parasocial over a month ago. Chappell is tired and I wouldn’t be surprised if she decided to stop making music and pull back from fame.
yeah I can definitely see Chappell taking a step back from the spotlight, especially since she’s been doing this for so long only to finally “make it” and get this inappropriate treatment in return.
It's wild to me that someone who has taken great pains to CLEARLY separate her public and private persona would be getting harassment from people who claim to be fans. You don't go up to someone and order a Big Mac unless they're behind the McDonald's counter and in the uniform.
The phrase "never meet your heroes" is something I've always believed. People can feel disappointed when they realize their favorite person, is just a regular person. People are rarely who you want them to be. Just because you THINK you know someoneone doesn't mean you're entitled to their personhood. You are a stranger to them. You can show an artist how much you love them by supporting their work, buying their merch, and engaging with their content.
I even think it's better not to have "heroes" at all. Leave that for fictional characters. Better to have people you enjoy and inspire you. At the end of the day people are humans and no one can wear that cape 24 hrs a day 365 days a year. It's kind of evil to hold someone up to a standard they didn't sign up fo, can't maintain and you don't even meet yourself!
But the thing is you don't love the person though, you may love their work, you may love what they represent, you may 'love' how you 'think' they make you feel when you consume their work, BUT you CAN'T love someone YOU DO NOT KNOW! You would be loving an image that YOU have projected unto a complete stranger. The whole concept of being a fan of someone you don't personally know is completely delusional.
With respect...parasocial relationships are not getting weird. They've ALWAYS been weird. Some are able to take PR to healthy levels to allow it to inspire them, but all too many take it too far.
Yeah that’s a good point, I think we’re just now realizing that they’ve always been weird. Creep behavior towards celebrities has been so normalized they used to have those “star maps” in LA that showed you where a bunch of famous people lived!! It was a Thing You Did as a tourist!! Nobody thought that was weird back then!
Seriously. I’ve been distressed by the intensity of fans for as long as I’ve been in fandom spaces (19 years from finding out anime and comic conventions exist and that celebrities make appearances there, 16 years from my first ever cosplay, 14 years from when I started reading fanfiction and sharing fanart). The entire reason teenage me prided myself on not being a “fangirl” is because I don’t become obsessed with people to a degree that I develop entitlement towards their lives. Because unlike someone who would be throwing their underwear at a concert and writing those “sold to One Direction” fanfics, I saw “wait, celebrities are people and deserve to have privacy just as much as I want privacy.” There were other layers to it that I’ve shed the nonsensical shame of, and I now pride myself on being a fanboy who has reasonable boundaries and doesn’t put anything on pedestals.
Christina Grimmie, Selena... there are literal life or death reasons why a celebrity might need to keep some distance from you. People get murdered by "fans" all the time, and you expect her to know that you wont be that? She doesnt know you, she has no way of knowing your intentions. Also just in general. No one owes us photos or hugs or attention. It doesnt matter if you like theyre music. If them having boundaries that 1. Keep them sane 2. Might stop them from being murdered is sooo difficult to handle as a fan that you no longer want to listen to the music... its not them who needs to adjust to fame, its you who needs to readjust your relationship to music
One time I was outside a club in Austin, I turned and saw Shea Coulee from Drag Race walking down the street towards the club. Before I even thought a second about it (I was a bit drunk) I said "oh my god that's Shea Coulee." We made eye contact, and then my brain kicked in and I realized she was wearing a hoodie with the hood up, not at all in Drag, I was wearing a sash for the bachelorette party I was a part of, surrounded by a gaggle of similarly inebriated girls. So I made the smart and considerate decision and just acted like I didn't notice her as she walked by because that's clearly what she was going for. It's all about reading the room and if you can't read the room, err on the side of caution and leave the person alone fr.
A couple of days ago I watched the ‘Mork Meets Robin Williams’ episode of Mork & Mindy. In the episode, Mork gets mistaken for Robin Williams and gets mobbed by fans everywhere he goes. They grab him and rip his clothes, and he’s terrified because he thinks they’re attacking him because they know he’s an alien. At the end of the episode, he delivers a monologue about how whilst being famous can be wonderful and exciting, there’s also a dark side to it. Then he lists celebrities including Marilyn Monroe, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, and Freddie Prinze, and describes them as “very special people who were sadly victims of their own fame”. I read that the episode was Robin’s idea, because he was relatively unknown when Mork & Mindy began (coincidentally, my parents met him when he was filming the first season as they were visiting the Happy Days set, and Mork & Mindy was filmed in the same studio. They said Robin was lovely), and he was catapulted to fame so quickly that he found it overwhelming and often didn’t know how to handle his newfound fame. It was quite heartbreaking to watch all these years later in the light of Robin’s death. I think in this era of social media and parasocial relationships, it’s gotten even worse. People feel more entitled, and seem to think celebrities owe them something. TL/DR: Robin Williams struggled so much with his newfound fame whilst filming Mork & Mindy that he pitched an episode where Mork gets mistaken for Robin Williams and mobbed by fans. He wanted to show viewers the dark side of fame, and hoped his fans would be more empathetic after watching the episode.
You are not wrong. My father worked at the Dakota & knew John Lennon. Had conversations with him. Was there the night it happened, watched as Lennon stumbled in after being shot. Fans can be so extra scary as my dad witnessed from getting death threats to stallings from Lennon’s fans that he went unlisted for over 40yrs! He’s now finally okay with people knowing because he was in the new Apple+ documentary about Lennon. Also have a random story about Rosario Dawson & how my parents met her at a dive bar where I grew up because her aunt was my parents realtor 😅
Also reminds me of The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust. I guess getting ripped apart by fans (whether metaphorically or literally) simply because of being famous has been a very present fear since forever.
“I asked you to ENGAGE my work.” This word choice is so important. Too often we want to passively consume, but your choice is engage reminds us that it is a wrestling with… we shouldn’t expect a 100% co-signing all the time. ❤
Just saw her clip with QwithTomPower, she says, "You really flourish [in this industry] if you don't protect yourself." I hope she gets to take all the precautions she needs to avoid any more (or at least more intense) situations.
it's like when nurses are just "supposed" to take the abuse from their patients or from the Doctors they work with ... just because is the common thing or is normalized doesn't mean it's ok. I'm glad she is speaking out.
As a k-pop fan seeing idols getting harassed, stalked and violated for years and the level of normalization of this sh!t, she is completely right to nip it in the bud from the start, privacy is essential and no artist should be stripped from it just because of their career choice. And if you, as a fan, claim to love your fav but think you have the right to harass them just to feed your delulu scenario of being "close to them" instead of showing basic respect, you don't really love them and your ass should be sued and arrested, I have no empathy for sasaengs 🤩
I was literally scrolling through comments to see if anyone mentioned K-pop [I've been a K-pop fan for 15+ years] because this parasocial thing is so intrinsically linked with K-pop and it always makes me sick to think that idols feel they *have* to give up everything about themselves to make it in the industry.
Yeah, what I really liked about kpop and kdramas was that because they didn’t speak about their personal lives or politics I could enjoy the performances just as performance, but the level of projection it creates is crazy. Particularly with the I-fans where there is also the cultural and language barrier to compound it. It’s far too easy for someone to convince themselves that the idol shares all of their values and opinions and feel betrayed at the first indication that a person who lives and works in a different country might have a different perspective.
Funky Frogbait's video about the hawk tua girl called attention to how easy it is for anyone to accidentally become famous and be overwhelmed by celebrity treatment (and stalkers) Then we have indie artists and musicians who are underaged, emotionally vulnerable and feeling dependent on their web presence for validation growing huge fandoms who adultify them and expect corporate level professionalism. Even some shy kids can just wind up in the spotlight at the mercy of the crowd
Another thing about these business owners/CEOs and politicians loving celebrities is that it takes the heat off them. They loved the "let the eat cake"/social media guillotine. Because the wrongs that we have in our lives (cost of living, education, health care) isn't on celebrities. It's on the major business leaders and politicians. As much as we want Beyonce and Taylor Swift to speak out, they aren't the lawmakers. The public needs to put their boots on the necks of the right people. That's another reason why celebrity culture is so important. It distracts the masses.
Yep. One of my favorite creators has been getting harassed about "not talking about Palestine". The other day someone brought it up on his Livestream and he said something like "I'm sorry you don't think I talk about it on my platform enough. I call my government representatives about it weekly but it's not the cause I'm most passionate about " And I wondered if that commenter has been calling their government representatives weekly. Or do they think of they get someone famous to talk about it publicly that's going to make any kind of policy change? I would think it's more important for someone in power to be using that power to try to influence the people who can actually make policy change behind the scenes than to make some kind of carefully worded public statement out into the wind
It's crazy to me because I absolutely love Tyler's music, I've been a fan for years, pretty much of everything he does. But if I saw him in public there's no way I'd go and talk to him lmao, like l I'm socially awkward asf I can barely talk to someone I know, I'm not approaching a stranger like we're besties. Shit, I guess that's probably it though, they don't view celebrities as strangers.
@@suoutubez19 ik.. im talking about misogynoir.. chappell is undoubtedly going to be met with more acceptance and grace than this visibly black woman who got labeled as the devil themself for having boundaries.. this was done to young miami too when she simply asked that fans call her by her stage name.. black women are demanded an access and accessibility to their bodies and kindness that is exacerbated by the concept of fame.. but im sure all of that went over your head
The idea that celebrities "owe" fans something just because they're fans is insane to me, and I'm glad Chappell Roan spoke up about it. Fans make Chappell famous, and she gives us more songs to listen to and great shows to see, that's the exchange in that transaction. She doesn't owe anyone anything else.
Yes 100% I don't know why people act like she "owes" us anything, she's sharing her art/music/performances with us because that's her job. Her job is not to become best friends with every person who recognizes her and give everyone access to her private life.
it's seriously so weird how offended people get by people's boundaries. i didn't understand the treatment doja got for being like u ppl are weird bc she was right 💀
hopefully people will take chappell saying it more seriously because let’s be honest when a black woman expresses a boundary that’s taken completely different ://
Fr like initially all that doja said was "I don't love my fans, because I don't know you" and I guess that shattered all the parasocial weirdos world's
Oh literally when she said that I was like yeah actually she's right, but people were soooooo heated and started insulting her, not only implying she had lost her mind but also mocking her intelligence because she dropped out of high school or college (can’t remember which), and telling her to go back to working at fast foods etc.... and I was like wow, people on twitter praise themselves for being open-minded, but i guess once they get mad they show their true colors. Especially when they can direct that anger at a black woman
nah her situation was different. i understand her wanting boundaries cuz that's literally a basic human need but going to the extent of calling her fans dumb, cuz they streamed her previous two albums and that won her a grammy and they are supposedly dumb because that album was a cash grab and mediocre. she was acting out on her fans for trying to find a fandom name and called them dumb for that. she doesn't need to love them, she can respect them thou. I agree with celebrities needing their boundaries and wanting to literally be left alone because they are human. But treating your fans who aren't toxic but just supporting you like shit is crazy. In this situation i'm totally in chappels side thou
If you bought an album then you are owed an album. If you pay for a ticket you are owed a concert. They don't owe you a photo or a conversation or a tweet or dm. That's it! That's getting what you paid for! And let's be real most of us aren't even paying for the music directly! Being upset at someone you praise for being real and public with their emotions/mental health when they say "hey y'all are frustrating me with this" is wild! Not to mention how many public figures now have a following but not the insane funds needed to fly private, live in a gated/exclusive community, never go to target, etc to avoid the public altogether. I get the sentiment of boohoo go cry in your mansion, but that's not an excuse for our behavior as fans even if it was reality for everyone, and tbh I don't think it's great to push celebrities further away from being able to live like a regular person. Idk man, I think we could all stand to chill out a bit lol
@@kaiduweirdo9412 with the rise of normalizing boundaries, they understand the concept. they just don't think famous ppl deserve the ability to set boundaries. at least that's my 2 cents
@@Roman-bw2fo This is it. Specifically because stans think the price of fame is the lack of boundaries/privacy, and celebrities should be, not just okay with this exchange, but willing and thrilled to make said exchange.
Just had an internet argument with someone who started out saying that fans are entitled to photos with celebs and ended with something like, "I just said asking for a photo is not a big deal" like bro, that's not what you initially said - you literally used the word ENTITLED. 💀 The vibes of his entire argument were that you should ask for a photo politely, but the celebrity essentially has no right to say no. Like what?! 😂 That's just an illusion of consent, what is even the point?
@@katerrinah5442 Or one person at a time, but multiple times a week. Most people like to have a chat with somebody else; most people like to be appreciated. So most people at a certain low enough level of fame will welcome somebody coming up to say they like their work. But. I think things would be overall better if people just didn't. If they kept expressions of appreciation to channels where the famous person is "on the job".
Some fans confuse their place in the relationship dynamic with fan - celebrity they feel entitled to the celebrity in their entirety because the celebrity owes "all the success" to them but that only makes them stakeholders, not shareholders . They impact the celebrity and their work but are not entitled to anything, it's so interesting that the familiarity that comes with a parasocial relationships makes one so willing to disregard basic social contracts .
This. No one is forcing fans to watch their movies, listen to their music, spend your money on merch and concerts. No one is forcing you to put someone up on a pedestal. That's the choice of the fans. Let people have some damn privacy.
People who say, “maybe you just can’t handle this life” should examine the “life” they’re talking about and if it has to be that way. Short answer: it doesn’t. Parasociality is bad for EVERYONE. Afford people their right to privacy no matter who they are.
When people say "maybe she can't handle this life" it's like her job is to sing and entertain you on the stage. Off the stage she's not at work. Leave the woman alone! The idea that celebrity = consent for harassment and stalking is weird af
I feel like capitalism in America dangles the tiny tiny chance of riches or fame in front of everyone to keep them working under awful conditions and then the jealousy, obsession and twisted fan culture is considered a sacrifice anyone who gets that tiny chance at fame has to endure because people want to live through them. Gotta love the trauma culture ☠️
This reminds me so much of when Billie Eilish had to set boundaries around giving her fans hugs. She really wanted to, but people started getting entitled and it was taking hours, and people wouldn’t take no for an answer. She had to stop doing it all together, and a lot of people got really pissed at a 16 year old 😑
This is why I'm always skeptical of the Buzzfeed "I met X Celebrity and They Were So Rude" articles. Were they rude or did you not honor/accept their boundaries?
I read one comment that said John Lennon and Christina Grimmie would not think Chappel is being selfish, and I couldn't agree more. With that level of fame, we can not trust that all 'fans' are going to have good intentions towards you.
Multiple celebs have been straight up k*lled by fans and everyone is SO SAD when it happens but continues to act like this with celebs like.... you're part of the problem babes!
this is not the "price of fame." the people that are constantly on these apps following profiles and pouring this over-involved essence of engagement into everything are the issue. the people who share that kind of content and "signal boost" that kind of mentality are the issue. i think there's a real willful ignorance within a lot of the personalities that tend to perpetuate this kind of behavior, as they just don't care to see what they're doing as wrong or harmful.
I don't think we should entirely blame consumers though. There are bigger things at play here (social media, algorithms, publicity and marketing) that are further and further encroaching on our lives that encourage these weirdos.
@@shamaamamamamaah6928I feel that if we're talking about full grown adults over 25, they can handle a good 95% of the accountability. Media, an algorithm, marketing...is not enough to make me believe I'm entitled so someone's time. Some screws are rattling lose in some of these individuals.
@@shamaamamamamaah6928 That's just allowing the shifting of accountability though. I don't think it is at all constructive to make the claim that marketing ploys and "the algorithm" make people do this or perpetuate this behavior. People are individuals who choose their actions, and harassing, stalking, "deep diving" into a notable name just for the fun of it and your own interest is your individual decision, not one forced unto you by "the algorithm."
@@Smallshotty97it’s not an either/or situation. Marketing and social media DO perpetuate these toxic behaviors. If you think pointing that out isn’t constructive, then you’re just disregarding the psychological impact of these factors.
@@shamaamamamamaah6928 Love the way my response was removed!! I'm a grown adult. Marketing and algorithms do not influence me to be entitled to someone's time and space. Let these adults take accountability.
Baby, the children don't remember the original Alt-Girl, Kelis! She would cuss you the f'k out in public She was always deadly serious about her being a singer was a job and not to harass her when she wasn't working! Of course, she was labeled difficult and rude. Naw just asking to respect her space!
Thank you, I'm glad part of us are pushing back against this insane level of entitlement and dehumisation of celebrities. Celebrities deserve to be "off the clock" like the rest of us and be allowed to chill.
I also have BPD, and this is making me realize that the internet itself has BPD when it comes to how we treat celebrities online. So much black and white thinking.
that's exactly what i've felt for the longest time. now that my BPD is better i see it much more clearly. what the hell is the reason for this?? and why is it so normal for it to be this way?
Since when did being a celebrity mean you had to accept people stalking and harassing you? Somome needs to do a PSA about why people setting boundaries is ok. And the people who willingly break them are always in the wrong.
@@lakegroce685 No because that's literally a crime?!? Like stalking is actually illegal, because of the harm it causes the person being stalked. And that most definitely applies to everyone, celebrity or not. It not different, or an exception because someone is famous, it's still a crime that causes harm to the person involved
Honestly I feel like the best rule of thumb is to only engage with public figures when they are "on" -- like at meet and greets and similar events. Anything else is asking them to do their job on their personal time, and that's simply not fair. Sure, some celebrities are more tolerant of it, and mention even liking certain interactions (like Kaitlin Olson saying she loves when people shout "shut up, bird!" at her, or John Cena saying he likes when people come up to him and say "you can't see me"), but those should be treated as exceptions to the rule. And even those exceptions don't apply in situations where no normal human being wants someone trying to take up their time and get in their face. I remember living in Atlanta when the Walking Dead was big and it was common to see the actors around certain areas. People would frequently mention how nice and patient Norman Reedus was, and how he was so willing to take pictures and sign autographs. And that's amazing for Norman Reedus, it's always kind of heartwarming to hear that people actually like interacting with fans. But in the same vein, people would be kinda critical that Andrew Lincoln didn't like being accosted while he was shopping at the midtown Trader Joe's and it's like... yeah, go figure, he doesn't know you and he's trying to buy toilet paper, leave him alone.
The levels of entitlement within Stan/Fandom culture are astronomical at this point and it’s getting to the point that multiple fandoms are toeing the line of becoming cults. I don’t know why people have seemed to have forgotten that popular artists/creators are human beings just like them and should be treated with the same amount of respect that everyone deserves.
If it's not ok to do it with non famous people, then it's not normal to do it to famous people. Remember the word 'people' is there for a reason. Treat them like art, appreciate from afar unless told otherwise.
I was having a conversation about something similar with a friend the other day about social engagement/interaction and what seems to be the decline of civility generally, and we agreed that although social community and interaction is important, we seem to be evolving to be worse at it by pivoting to try to rely more on parasocial, virtual, and AI interactions than dealing with those around us and dealing with the direct repercussions of our bad social behaviors. I feel like parasocial relationships make it easier to be as toxic/abusive/obsessed as you want to be without being directly associated with it, thereby avoiding being held accountable for your poor social behavior.
I think it was in Lady Emily's Cinemassacre video where she said (paraphrasing) "when you put someone on a pedestal, and they do something to fall from grace in your eyes...well, it's a long fall from that height." I think about line a lot, especially as I keep seeing it happen for the stupidest reasons online.
When a celebrity is doing a press tour, when they're at a meet and greet, when they're doing an interview, when they're clearly "at work", the expectations are different than when they're NOT working. Celebrities aren't upset that they are recognized in public, they're upset that they're harrassed. And I say this as someone who has seen Khadija in public and spoke to her 😂😭
I see people claim that the idolization of celebrities is done but when parasocial relationships get outta hand like this sometimes I find that hard to believe. Maybe ACTORS don't have that air of untouchability anymore like movie stars back then but I think singers/ pop stars (especially woman) are still dealing with this level of projection with their fans. It could be that with actors, usually people idolize the characters they play rather then them as a person whereas with singers they come on stage as themselves. Even if they do have a stage name or concept, for the most part their art is a part of them that people could relate to and feel seen. Not saying that actors don't get harrased but nowadays I think it's worse for singers in this new age of stan culture. OR nothing has changed in the last 60 years.
I think also a big reason why the fans of musical artists have stronger parasocial relationships than the fans of actors is because there's a larger degree of separation between actors and fans. Musical artists are expected and oftentimes even contractually obligated to perform at concerts, where their fans can be in the exact same physical space as them in real time. Not to mention the touring that most musical artists do, which gives fans even more opportunities to be in the same physical space as them. On the other hand, pretty much the only time that fans can be in the same physical space as their favourite actor is at conventions. And even then, 1) most actors don't attend conventions, and 2) the ones that do attend conventions may not attend them every single year. Because of this, most fans can really only see their favourite actors from behind a screen.
Singers are also their own brand. The way they act and dress has to align with the music they make, which leads to people thinking that they know this specific artist
Commenting for the algorithm (haven't watched yet) but from the title alone...YEP. As someone who used to frequent conventions, the bad behavior and entitlement of fans has made those spaces not so fun anymore. As an elder millennial, I'm honestly not used to, nor particularly interested in having recognition from my favorite artists. I never expected to interact with them and the rare times I've seen them in public I do not engage. Their work IS the engagement, that's how it should be. Listening, watching and fangirling with your friends or other fans is the engagement. Anything else is extra and not required and should not be expected from the artist.
I’ve seen some people with moral OCD talk about how online parasocial relationships get compounded by “I only want to do the right thing, and that means I only support the Right people” and how you can fall into a spiral of trying to vet every single person/post/saying. I don’t have OCD and am in no way an expert on the topic, but I think there’s an interesting connection there by the fact that society doesn’t want us to hold onto the ambiguities, and that pattern just gets amplified online
I feel like I've observed the putting celebs on a pedestal leads to over the top hatred when they disappoint people (whether they've done something actually worth criticizing or not) for a while now, and I'm glad to see someone put it as well as you have! Ultimately, I don't really have "expectations" of celebrities or people I follow- I don't have to agree with or like everything they say or do, but I do have personal standards for what I'm comfortable supporting. If someone whose work I like fails to meet my standards, then I simply stop engaging with their stuff and move along. And I hold those standards whether it's Chappell Roan, smaller, non famous musicians I like, online content creators or a random account on instagram I follow with 2,000 followers lol. It's the healthiest way I found I can engage with art (because I love music, movies, etc.) while still feeling like I'm living by my own values. I think everyone on "Stan twitter" would be a little less stressed in their lives if they also took this approach lmao.
I wanna know what happened to kindly asking for an autograph from a celebrity. I went to a show for an artist I've been a fan of for over 15 years and was genuinely just concerned with making her feel uncomfortable next to a 30 year old 5’10” 190lb gay man she doesn't know as anything other than a paying fan. Girl, I didn't even touch her while she had her arm around my shoulder and kept my arm behind my back 💀.
I once broke up a friendship by email, explaining I couldn't be friends with them anymore, precisely because through no fault of their own, I valued their opinion too much & would put them on a piedestal, would believe their opinion over my own & would experience every criticism as a dagger. They were overly judgmental, but the fact is that I am the one who gave them that power over me. I'm the one who had to make a change. But it's hard not to fall into that pattern again.
The awfulness of parasocial relationships is a huge reason I dont really interact with alot of fan bases. People are too quick to treat real life people as fictional characters. The moment I see that behavior being accepted im fucking OUTTA THERE
Only a fraction of the way thru the video but so far this reminds me of your Jubilee response video where you took inventory of the people saying they were upset you participated, and how it negatively colored the way they percieved your overall character (something that we could not know as complete strangers). In that vid you said "I am not yours." And it was such a simple statement but it has really helped me reconfigure how I view my interactions w others. Like alot of times we personalize the entire character of some random person like we're in create-a-sim and ignore their own autonomy. We remove their humanity to then fill the space with what we see as desirable. Its so fucked
I once saw Wes Anderson on the train and we made eye contact and he knew I saw him but I decided to not go up to him as he was on the train with his girlfriend
Thank you for doing this! I’m so glad Chappell Roan spoke out about creepy fan behavior. I’ve been witnessing it for about a decade and it is repellent. Such behavior has made me not want to attend the concerts of musicians I love, because I don’t want to be surrounded by creepy, entitled fans. This has to change. Respect personal boundaries, people!
listen. I live in LA.... I'm constantly in the vicinity of rich and famous people -- in fact I work with famous people's KIDS. it's SO SO SO inappropriate to invade their space or bring attention to them while they're just living their lives. I have seen celebs get SO anxious because they're out supporting their kids and they are getting random people coming up to them trying to photograph them. And on top of that these random people are photographing them and their CHILDREN. it's WEIRD. PLEASE DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THIS. I never approach unless they are WORKING (i.e. meet and greets, concerts, panels, etc.) if they aren't prepared to engage with fans DO NOT INTERACT. literally it's so weird.
Even from a purely selfish standpoint the stalking makes no sense because if she stops making music then what? Use your brains people leave people alone!!
I dont know how people approach anyone in public, let alone famous people. I dread having public interactions of any kind, let alone with someone I dont know.
I fall into the "Who? Wait, why do I care?" camp most of the time since I am shit at recognizing people and don't follow most media things that would lead to knowledge of celebrities. For example, this video is the first I've heard of Roan. BUT! I do find it very interesting how knowledge of, understanding about, and discussion of parasocial relationships and their issues is getting far more mainstream with social media becoming what it is. When I first heard about it back in my media theory classes way back when, it was still being talked about in the context of obsessive letter writing to and stalking of movie stars. Now it is an everyday experience of many people. Thank you for talking about it.
Never heard this young lady's music but the discussions about her boundaries, celebrity culture, and parasocial relationships has been eye opening for me as an old head millennial
This honestly reminds me A LOT of when random fans started showing up at Katya Zamolodchikova's house after she went on Drag Race and she had to basically beg people to stop being creepy and overstepping boundaries. It is so concerning that there are people out there that think it's okay to just show up at a person's HOME without knowing them or being invited
Sing! 'Canceling' and parasocial relationships need to be talked about in this context more. Shit Everyone can take something away from the DBT toolbox; it's the only way I've found to defeat Main Character issues *and* reign in the AuDHD/ Rejection Sensitivity reactions that happen when I slip.
I've met a lot of celebs at my jobs. I've worked in high end hotels, and a globally known restaurant that's been on a lot of travel shows. I treat them like any other customer unless they go out of their way to be noticed. The very last thing they want is to be called out when they're just trying to eat. A lot of other servers couldn't grasp that, and would just immediately call them out. Here it is: If they want to do meet and greets, they will. When I met Mandy Patinkin he was so friendly, loud - greeting every single person in the restaurant. He clearly enjoyed his fame. When I met Sam Rockwell he was in a corner with his face down and a ballcap and sunglasses on. He wanted to be left alone, that was clear. I gave him his good and left him alone. It's not hard to figure out that celebs are individuals with different relationships to their fame. That means you also have to treat them like individuals. Also I met The Temptations in their underwear. No I will not elaborate. Yes I was polite.
The entitlement that people feel to celebrities is wild to me. Like getting a photo or asking for an autograph at an event is one thing but I just don’t get bothering people when they are just running errands or with their family. As someone who does live in LA and has seen/run into a couple famous people at work/in public I just leave them alone or just interact with them like they’re a normal person. It’s not that hard just to give space.
“Fans” who believe artists owe them respect bc they stream their music is desperation. Separate yourself for sec and look at what ur doing… it’s straight embarrassing.
Girl, calling out the inherent manipulation in saying “you would be nothing without us,” had me on the floor. I always felt like it was gross but I didn’t know why. THATS WHY. Thank you for your help with that!
you're the only one who i've seen talking about celebrity's also needing to understand that being famous requires people knowing you while also hammering down that they're humans and obviously entitled to their boundaries! there's a time and a place for everything but life does not always work out in your favor and you need to be prepared for that
Ive gone through several videos addressing this whole thing and I appreciate your take a lot because while the others have made strong arguments in defence, you came in with a very educated and well researched perspective that addressed the larger social problem rather than just the specific online battles.
You make such a great point about our desire to see our idols being politically aligned with us. We feel so disconnected from our actual political representatives, even when you call and email and get the form letter response back it's hard to feel like your voice is heard, and politics make us feel....ambivalent at BEST. Celebrities feel like powerful people that we have greater access to, a greater connection to, because of the emotional nature of making and consuming art. So if our faves aren't doing what we think we'd do with their power and influence, or making political statements that we can agree with, we feel betrayed. How could someone who made music about how I feel, feel differently about this important political issue?? The answer is, they're a whole other person than me and I don't actually know their life.
I'm undecided as to whether it's inherently wrong or creepy to recognise a celebrity out on the street and ask for a picture or something. But if you do that and the person says no then you had better respect and accept that. Nobody's entitled to it.
Leave people alone when they’re not at work. Like you’d never go up to someone who clocked out of work and be like hey do this for me because I’m entitled to your time. There’s a time and a place for these interactions and when people are just going about their business is not it.
i love DBT as a fellow person w BPD and i think a lot of people could benefit from what it teaches even if they themselves do not suffer from a personality disorder. I was super excited to hear you make connections to it in this video, and i completely agree with you! great work also worth noting...Even though Chappell chose to become a musician, i don't view that the same way as choosing fame. Most people don't become famous, plain and simple. It's known that she has only just now picked up a lot of traction in her career...years after she started. She's been working at it for a long time with little recognition and now all of a sudden there's SO MUCH. I hardly view that as something she "signed up for" How was she supposed to know she'd blow up like this? Idk just doesn't make sense
I've been seeing a lot of people say things like "Celebrities definitely deserve some measure of privacy but it's hypocritical of them to expect to not be approached in public. They wanted to be famous, it comes with the territory" Is it hypocritical? Does fame inherently mean that other people are always entitled to your time? It seems like that's just a boundary that we collectively decided it was okay to break. It has certainly not always been like that, nor is it a universal idea across the world.
also, I never understood the argument that they “wanted to be famous” unless you’re someone like Kim Kardashian who explicitly wanted to become famous by any means necessary and literally became “famous” for being famous. I don't feel like it's right to put that label on any musician or actor. Do people genuinely believe someone like Michael Jackson for example, set out to be famous? To the point where people fainted at the sight of him? When he had to close down grocery stores and hire actors to be shoppers? No, he started off as a kid who could sing & dance and wanted people to hear him sing and dance. Most Actors and musicians are extremely shy off-stage or when they are not playing a character. Their art is an outlet to express themselves. Fame is the last thing on the list.
that line about “an artist I really like and their political opinions do not matter more to me than my own” is gonna stick with me forever. loved this video as always your insights are invaluable
Thank you so much for making this video. You explain why it's so easy to fall into this trap and give just the right balance of compassion and tough love that people need for a wakeup call. I don't follow a lot of celebrities, but there are some fandoms I was in recently where things got extremely creepy and inappropriate by the fans (mostly women and nonbinary people) towards actors who are men. Your comparison to women who are frustrated by men demanding their attention is spot-on, and it feels like a lot of these fans don't see themselves in that role because of gender differences - but it's the same type of bad behavior that disrespects boundaries. We really need to check ourselves and each other to make sure we are respecting basic boundaries of the people we admire!
The “maybe she doesn’t have what it takes to be a pop star” is the same vibe as “if you don’t want me to hit on you then why are you dressed like that?”
YOU ATE THIS UP. wow. yes. instead of adjusting to a new, healthy celebrity culture. people don't see you as HUMAN. they literally think they belong to you. some celebs are okay with this and some aren't. let's respect the people who aren't.
It does
Or as “if you can’t take my misogyny, don’t be on the internet”
🎯🎯🎯
Anthony Mackie made the same point & he was Berated….. I’m happy 😃 it’s been UNDERSTOOD from Chappell Roans Perspective NOW 😊
Normalize leaving celebrities alone while they are out trying to live their lives. If they are walking down the street getting a coffee, they aren't working. If they are greeting fans after a concert, they are working. Leave people alone.
100% agree
Thank you! They're whole humans with alot going on and agency. They are allowed to just go about their shitty day unbothered, just like anyone else
Nah, I respectfully disagree yo..
@@jeepz669why?
I was once in a pub in London that has a co-working area, and I saw Lewis Capaldi walk in with two friends. I just tried not to stare at him and carried on with my work. He’s been very open about his mental health and his struggles with fame, and he deserves to be able to go out for a pint with his mates and not be harassed. I didn’t notice anyone approach him, and he looked really happy.
the level of excusing we give to insane celebrity stalking behavior is actually ridiculous.
Sometimes I question if I live in the same planet with this people.
@Dojafish I miss lockdown isolation. People are trippin out there.
It's ridiculous!!
I always hate it when somebody does get called out, they give out some bs reasons like "they know what they were signing up for" or "who cares? They are rich", as if that's suppose to justify them not treating celebs like the humans they are
RIGHT? People will be acting fully crazy and everyone else will just shrug and be like, “well it’s a celebrity… so that’s just normal.”
Hot take but I feel like this behavior isn’t as controversial as it should because most people do actually feel entitled to something from a celebrity if they encounter them, even if it’s just a few moments of their time. How do I know? I recently realized that I also felt that way and had to unpack that shit.
Doesn’t matter how well you try to think things through or how conscientious you are. Wrong-headed bullshit can still sneak in from time to time so stay vigilant to your own minds everybody. Especially before you try to go policing anyone else.
Saying abuse and harassment is the price of fame is fuckin wild 😒 yet another reason why we all should be taught about consent AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE smh
There’s literally a bunch of weirdos in these comments rn making excuses as to why other human beings don’t deserve the same basic human rights to their own space and time just because of being famous or on a public stage and it’s legit disgusting. I’m just going to assume they’re all delulu fans of their own and instead of looking in the mirror they’re being keyboard warriors here 🤷
That's also not call every single freaking thing under the sun abuse and harassment... Geez🤨. Some of this is this person just being freaking annoyed at all the attention and their name being yelled out and random people asking them for something whether it is a selfie or an autograph or whatever. That request is 🚫 NOT harassment.
I live in the US and everyone is taught from k-12th grade to keep theirs hands, feet and objects to yourself. Most people are fully aware of the treatment they would not like and should ask for consent to do. However, the adult mindset of doing whatever you want plus drugs/alcohol makes people forget the common sense the school system and their parents tried to instill early on
It's giving "well what were you wearing?"
@LS-gy9bq she's literally being stalked and harassed, and yes being verbally abused by the public for telling everyone to stop stalking and harassing her is abuse
someone brought up christina grimmie who was murdered by a fan who asked for a hug. so screw everyone saying chappell should be grateful and take any abuse and any fan interaction if they’re “nice” to her. i’m sure most if not all these artists feel this way but is fearful of being attacked by their fans or naysayers. good for her speaking up
Not to mention John Lennon AND George Harrison
It reminds me of the "not all men" argument. The list of celebrities killed by fans is too long
Rebecca Schaeffer was also murdered by a fan.
@Peloponnesia666 George died of lung cancer that had been remission and came back after his got stabbed in the lungs. Idk man
@Peloponnesia666 also it wasnt many years it was like... 2
Been waiting for your commentary on this. What’s crazy is how people are making it seem like Chappell is some mean diva for wanting boundaries and basic respect. Parasocial relationships have gotten so much worse in the last few years, stan culture is insufferable
@@Wordsespecially3 the fact there's a "stan culture" speaks volumes. The stan playbook enables people to ignore celebrities' humanity
A lot of people also seem to forget that "stan" literally means "stalker fan." It's not a positive term.
@@sushiroll3795 the term "stan" comes from the Eminem song of the same name. It doesn't originally mean "stalker fan", although it's a pretty good coincidence
@@sushiroll3795 in fact, the sole reason why stan sounds like fan is because it rhymes. "Truly yours, your biggest fan, this is Stan"
@@incog.nyto.agreed, though it certainly was not positive in the context of that song either lol
Fans who employ the “She OWES us her time for making her famous” are dangerously close to “She OWES me sex because I paid for her dinner” y’all aren’t owed anything. You’re just abusive
EXACTLY! 😮
Anthony Mackie made the same comparison too. 😮
Lets see someone get to her fame with no fans and prove us all wrong 🤷♂️
@@bassekaman8315 is that your definition of a fan?
@@bassekaman8315are you personally so delusional of a person that you think being a fan means you get to invade another human beings personal space, time, and comfort? Clown.
I love that Chappelle Roan put it so bluntly and I'm inclined to agree.
It's especially painful seeing Justin Bieber being villainized for protecting his kids from filming when he has had to deal with being filmed in so many compromising positions as a young person. I'm not even a fan of his and yet I know things about him that I frankly shouldn't. Having to operate in society like that-- and ultimately feeling strongly about protecting your family from it. Like. That in itself isn't a crime.
I'll never forget when Jeanette McCurdy went on the record to say that someone tried to make her sign an autograph as a teenager from underneath a bathroom stall. Fucking abhorrent and criminal behavior.
Ugh 😣
Probably the only times I've felt genuinely bad for Justin Beiber, is watching him repeatedly and tearfully asking his insane fans to respect his privacy, boundaries, and family in paparazzi videos....he's been asking for this commom respect amd decency he was a teen. It's no wonder he now suffers from severe anxiety and depression
@@ptlovelight2971it really is no wonder. I was never a fan but learning about what he's been going through since he was young really makes me feel for the guy.
P yeah and as soon as celebrities stop getting attention then they bitching and complaining too
fame idols are coming to an end in the next few decades. and i'm living for it. i think it's high time we appreciate art and artists without worshiping or parasocially connecting to them.
@@meepinandmorpin how do you think social media will affect that achievemnt? so far it has only aided in growing these parasocial relationships that people think they have
imo as social media keeps evolving, parasocial relationships are only going to get _worse_ social platforms are constantly finding new ways to keep users hooked, making it harder to tell the difference between real and curated content, especially as algorithms are being designed to show us exactly what we want (or _who_ we want), making it easy to feel connected to influencers, celebrities, and even AI-driven personas.
@@prrsun It hasn't grown, only revealed what was already there; many of these type of folk didn't have social media to express their obsessive nature, or keep track of where their gods were most of the time back in the day, but when a celeb goes out in public, you still had those fanatics that would practically claw at the person's face just to get a touch.
But social media hasn't aided that. Para social relationships were waaaay worse before social media. Fans were wild back then. There's a reason Eminem wrote stan.@@prrsun
I disagree and I'm super curious to understand your perspective on this. Any indication this toxic culture is waning would be very valuable to me.
Thank God more and more people are pointing out this shit.
especially the doja cat stuff cuz ppl were making a much bigger deal about the tweets she was making at the time than they needed to
And especially with Roan since she's been so open about how difficult she's found the meteoric rise to fame. She literally cried onstage. She's not well rn and people need to give her some space.
Homogenic 😱
the situation with Chappell's family being doxxed was done by an admin of one of the biggest Chappell fan pages on instagram. the person doxxing Chappell is hiding behind the other admins like a coward. it's so gross.
These people really need to have the heaviest law book thrown at them. I really can't imagine having my family made uncomfortable because some obsessive freak can't find ANYTHING better to do with their life than invade spaces and lives they KNOW they have no right or reason to access. GET A LITTLE HOBBY!
I worked in theatre and at performance venues for at least a decade, and let me tell you, performers absolutely HATE it when "fans" come up to them when they are doing normal human things like eating at a restaurant or going shopping or using the restroom, there is a time and a place, and those kinds of things are not the place or time to invade their space, lol. But this whole thing reminds me of this time I was going to see a concert, don't remember the band, but they happened to be at the same restaurant as me and the person I was with before their gig started, and the person I was with really really wanted to go up to them while they were eating to go say hi and maybe get a selfie or something, and I tried to stay calm but I was like absolutely not, you might have a good memory, but they are just gonna be annoyed, and the person I was with was like "well it's the life they signed up for", I was like, um, that's not how celebrity and notoriety work, they can't be "on" all the time, they are still people, human beings, and I dragged the person I was with out of that restaurant as fast as I could.
it's about consent... you understand they have times where they consent to interactions with others & times where they should be expected to be left alone. unless a person is purposefully creating an event for fan interactions, then they should be left alone & that shouldn't be controversial at all.
Full stop agree!
It’s like ever since social media threw out online etiquette for communication boundaries, people take that behavior offline and apply it to anyone famous.
And the best analogy I can give on this:
I bet you fans hated it as teenagers when their parents invade their private spaces, asked too many questions, asked for too many prom photos or first day of school photos, right?
If they could only understand the same feeling they got from their parents doing that, not understanding letting them have their teenage independence, is the same feeling famous people get from fans who can’t “read the room” for boundaries in public & go running up to them at times that are inappropriate to bother them.
Right! Ghostface Killa was eating his breakfast. He finished and went to leave. I asked if he minded a pic. We took one, we moved on.
Not same lvl of celeb but I saw Rhett and a bunch of the rest of the Mythical Crew after DCs pride at a lesbian/gay bar (insane) and I watched Josh and some others get into the venue right before us and apologize profusely then made eye contact with Rhett inside and freaked out just a little to my friends but didn’t go up to them at all. Half of me wishes I did because after I realized they were there for their tour (felt like i was going insane cause why were they in DC😭😭).
Anyways. I’ve been watching them since childhood and half regret not speaking to them but seeing they actually exist felt like enough.
Ik this isn’t that relevant but I rlly wanted to share this
Partially true..... because once the fame runs out and the people stop bothering them.... a lot of them go the other way and get enraged and entitled when people DON'T recognize them lololol.
Celebrities are just as fucked up as their creepy fans haha.
2:26 counterpoint to this argument is: if you can't treat the artist whose work you enjoy with respect and dignity, maybe you don't have what it takes to be a fan and you should stop listening to music.
Exactly. I want artist to be happy and healthy and make art for me 😊
Celebrity worship needs to end, along with all other forms of hierarchy that exist just for hierarchy's sake, so we can have a truly egalitarian society.
Your analogy of creepy people in bars thinking they're entitled to others attention because they offered to buy a drink for them is SPOT ON. Just because somebody is preoccupied with something else, it's NOT disrespectful of them to be like "oh sorry, no not right now." The world of social media has me feeling this too, and I only have like 1.5k followers on instagram, and I HATE how much it's made me feel like I'm always "accessible" to people, like if I even open my instagram I see DMs from people I don't know that well and if I don't reply then I'm a snooty little snob like what?? Worst of all, if I vent about it as nicely as I can on my main page, I get sarcastic DMs from those same people like "oh it must suck to be soooo popular poor you" like no it sucks that people think I'm always available to them every time I check my social media when I DON'T KNOW YOU
i’m so glad i’m not on social media like that anymore 😭
!!!
Listen, I grew up before social media was a thing & can honestly say that you are in control of setting a boundary of when you CHOOSE to socially engage.
If people can not respect this? They do not respect you and are leeching off of you.
Move anyone in DM’s to request DM’s that you do not follow back so they get the hint that you ONLY respond to people you follow.
I once had someone on social media get upset because I didn't reply with in an hour. Not only is that unreasonable at the best of times but it was literally 3am in my country when they sent that. I was sleeping
*I"m glad you put this here, I recently had a friend get mad I didn't view their story. I don't view anyone's stories because, I have 10+ dms to go through minimum , it's overwhelming. I just want 2 look at a meme to laugh and I'm done.*
The whole Doja Cat situation really woke me up to this. We don’t know these people and they don’t owe us anything. We can just enjoy their music and leave them be.
I’ve always found it low-key embarrassing to be near celebrities. Like…I know so much about you (birthday, kids names, dating history) and you have no idea who I am.
I've never really thought of it like that. It's definitely a strange dynamic.
I think it’s so baffling how even influencers deal with this. Drew Afualo recently had an incident where a “fan” of hers had claimed she had a bad interaction with Drew at the airport. This fan then went immediately to TikTok to air her grievances. She was upset that Drew and her family said no to taking a picture with her at the airport. They were late to their flight and the fan knew this and still complained. The fan’s tiktok comments then became a space for many of Drew’s haters to finally have a reason to hate on her more. It took Drew to clarify in her own posts as to why they were running late (TSA being assholes) and her family curtly but politely said no. Drew had to set even more boundaries on her podcast asking fans to not film her and not ask for pictures from her family members. I find it no coincidence that Chappell was recently on Drew’s podcast the Comment Section to talk about fans being weird and parasocial over a month ago. Chappell is tired and I wouldn’t be surprised if she decided to stop making music and pull back from fame.
yeah I can definitely see Chappell taking a step back from the spotlight, especially since she’s been doing this for so long only to finally “make it” and get this inappropriate treatment in return.
It's wild to me that someone who has taken great pains to CLEARLY separate her public and private persona would be getting harassment from people who claim to be fans. You don't go up to someone and order a Big Mac unless they're behind the McDonald's counter and in the uniform.
@@wastedinspiration wow this is actually such a great analogy to use
The phrase "never meet your heroes" is something I've always believed. People can feel disappointed when they realize their favorite person, is just a regular person. People are rarely who you want them to be. Just because you THINK you know someoneone doesn't mean you're entitled to their personhood. You are a stranger to them. You can show an artist how much you love them by supporting their work, buying their merch, and engaging with their content.
I even think it's better not to have "heroes" at all. Leave that for fictional characters. Better to have people you enjoy and inspire you. At the end of the day people are humans and no one can wear that cape 24 hrs a day 365 days a year. It's kind of evil to hold someone up to a standard they didn't sign up fo, can't maintain and you don't even meet yourself!
But the thing is you don't love the person though, you may love their work, you may love what they represent, you may 'love' how you 'think' they make you feel when you consume their work, BUT you CAN'T love someone YOU DO NOT KNOW! You would be loving an image that YOU have projected unto a complete stranger. The whole concept of being a fan of someone you don't personally know is completely delusional.
spot on
With respect...parasocial relationships are not getting weird. They've ALWAYS been weird. Some are able to take PR to healthy levels to allow it to inspire them, but all too many take it too far.
Yeah that’s a good point, I think we’re just now realizing that they’ve always been weird. Creep behavior towards celebrities has been so normalized they used to have those “star maps” in LA that showed you where a bunch of famous people lived!! It was a Thing You Did as a tourist!! Nobody thought that was weird back then!
Seriously. I’ve been distressed by the intensity of fans for as long as I’ve been in fandom spaces (19 years from finding out anime and comic conventions exist and that celebrities make appearances there, 16 years from my first ever cosplay, 14 years from when I started reading fanfiction and sharing fanart). The entire reason teenage me prided myself on not being a “fangirl” is because I don’t become obsessed with people to a degree that I develop entitlement towards their lives. Because unlike someone who would be throwing their underwear at a concert and writing those “sold to One Direction” fanfics, I saw “wait, celebrities are people and deserve to have privacy just as much as I want privacy.” There were other layers to it that I’ve shed the nonsensical shame of, and I now pride myself on being a fanboy who has reasonable boundaries and doesn’t put anything on pedestals.
I agree this is nothing new. The whole celebrity thing by definition comes with them being on a pedestal. It’s all so strange tbh.
yeah, let's not forget what happened to björk
Thinking the exact same thing when seeing the video title. lol.
Christina Grimmie, Selena... there are literal life or death reasons why a celebrity might need to keep some distance from you. People get murdered by "fans" all the time, and you expect her to know that you wont be that? She doesnt know you, she has no way of knowing your intentions.
Also just in general. No one owes us photos or hugs or attention. It doesnt matter if you like theyre music. If them having boundaries that 1. Keep them sane 2. Might stop them from being murdered is sooo difficult to handle as a fan that you no longer want to listen to the music... its not them who needs to adjust to fame, its you who needs to readjust your relationship to music
👏👏 well said.
One time I was outside a club in Austin, I turned and saw Shea Coulee from Drag Race walking down the street towards the club. Before I even thought a second about it (I was a bit drunk) I said "oh my god that's Shea Coulee." We made eye contact, and then my brain kicked in and I realized she was wearing a hoodie with the hood up, not at all in Drag, I was wearing a sash for the bachelorette party I was a part of, surrounded by a gaggle of similarly inebriated girls. So I made the smart and considerate decision and just acted like I didn't notice her as she walked by because that's clearly what she was going for. It's all about reading the room and if you can't read the room, err on the side of caution and leave the person alone fr.
Absolutely 😊
The fact that drunk you has more sense than a lot of people sober says a lot about both you and them. I’m sure she appreciated you keeping quiet 💕
A couple of days ago I watched the ‘Mork Meets Robin Williams’ episode of Mork & Mindy. In the episode, Mork gets mistaken for Robin Williams and gets mobbed by fans everywhere he goes. They grab him and rip his clothes, and he’s terrified because he thinks they’re attacking him because they know he’s an alien. At the end of the episode, he delivers a monologue about how whilst being famous can be wonderful and exciting, there’s also a dark side to it. Then he lists celebrities including Marilyn Monroe, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, and Freddie Prinze, and describes them as “very special people who were sadly victims of their own fame”.
I read that the episode was Robin’s idea, because he was relatively unknown when Mork & Mindy began (coincidentally, my parents met him when he was filming the first season as they were visiting the Happy Days set, and Mork & Mindy was filmed in the same studio. They said Robin was lovely), and he was catapulted to fame so quickly that he found it overwhelming and often didn’t know how to handle his newfound fame. It was quite heartbreaking to watch all these years later in the light of Robin’s death.
I think in this era of social media and parasocial relationships, it’s gotten even worse. People feel more entitled, and seem to think celebrities owe them something.
TL/DR: Robin Williams struggled so much with his newfound fame whilst filming Mork & Mindy that he pitched an episode where Mork gets mistaken for Robin Williams and mobbed by fans. He wanted to show viewers the dark side of fame, and hoped his fans would be more empathetic after watching the episode.
You are not wrong. My father worked at the Dakota & knew John Lennon. Had conversations with him. Was there the night it happened, watched as Lennon stumbled in after being shot.
Fans can be so extra scary as my dad witnessed from getting death threats to stallings from Lennon’s fans that he went unlisted for over 40yrs!
He’s now finally okay with people knowing because he was in the new Apple+ documentary about Lennon.
Also have a random story about Rosario Dawson & how my parents met her at a dive bar where I grew up because her aunt was my parents realtor 😅
Also reminds me of The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust. I guess getting ripped apart by fans (whether metaphorically or literally) simply because of being famous has been a very present fear since forever.
“I asked you to ENGAGE my work.” This word choice is so important. Too often we want to passively consume, but your choice is engage reminds us that it is a wrestling with… we shouldn’t expect a 100% co-signing all the time. ❤
+
Just saw her clip with QwithTomPower, she says, "You really flourish [in this industry] if you don't protect yourself." I hope she gets to take all the precautions she needs to avoid any more (or at least more intense) situations.
it's like when nurses are just "supposed" to take the abuse from their patients or from the Doctors they work with ... just because is the common thing or is normalized doesn't mean it's ok. I'm glad she is speaking out.
@@tbdtandres also servers and bartenders
Pretty much any profession that is female dominated (teachers, social workers)
As a k-pop fan seeing idols getting harassed, stalked and violated for years and the level of normalization of this sh!t, she is completely right to nip it in the bud from the start, privacy is essential and no artist should be stripped from it just because of their career choice. And if you, as a fan, claim to love your fav but think you have the right to harass them just to feed your delulu scenario of being "close to them" instead of showing basic respect, you don't really love them and your ass should be sued and arrested, I have no empathy for sasaengs 🤩
I was literally scrolling through comments to see if anyone mentioned K-pop [I've been a K-pop fan for 15+ years] because this parasocial thing is so intrinsically linked with K-pop and it always makes me sick to think that idols feel they *have* to give up everything about themselves to make it in the industry.
@@kiralynx it's sad af
Yeah, what I really liked about kpop and kdramas was that because they didn’t speak about their personal lives or politics I could enjoy the performances just as performance, but the level of projection it creates is crazy. Particularly with the I-fans where there is also the cultural and language barrier to compound it. It’s far too easy for someone to convince themselves that the idol shares all of their values and opinions and feel betrayed at the first indication that a person who lives and works in a different country might have a different perspective.
Funky Frogbait's video about the hawk tua girl called attention to how easy it is for anyone to accidentally become famous and be overwhelmed by celebrity treatment (and stalkers)
Then we have indie artists and musicians who are underaged, emotionally vulnerable and feeling dependent on their web presence for validation growing huge fandoms who adultify them and expect corporate level professionalism. Even some shy kids can just wind up in the spotlight at the mercy of the crowd
Pretty Predatory if you ask me. 😮
Like the “Alex from Target” sensation which got him on Ellen
@@stephaniem2951 Yes that was so messed up!
Another thing about these business owners/CEOs and politicians loving celebrities is that it takes the heat off them. They loved the "let the eat cake"/social media guillotine. Because the wrongs that we have in our lives (cost of living, education, health care) isn't on celebrities. It's on the major business leaders and politicians. As much as we want Beyonce and Taylor Swift to speak out, they aren't the lawmakers. The public needs to put their boots on the necks of the right people. That's another reason why celebrity culture is so important. It distracts the masses.
Absolutely 😮
Yep. One of my favorite creators has been getting harassed about "not talking about Palestine".
The other day someone brought it up on his Livestream and he said something like "I'm sorry you don't think I talk about it on my platform enough. I call my government representatives about it weekly but it's not the cause I'm most passionate about "
And I wondered if that commenter has been calling their government representatives weekly. Or do they think of they get someone famous to talk about it publicly that's going to make any kind of policy change?
I would think it's more important for someone in power to be using that power to try to influence the people who can actually make policy change behind the scenes than to make some kind of carefully worded public statement out into the wind
We can’t expect people to be on the job 24/7. leave famous people alone during their time off.
I love how tyler the creator mentions this a lot, people dont have boundaries and get too weird especially seeing them in person
yes! and people made fun of him for that very sane comment!
It's crazy to me because I absolutely love Tyler's music, I've been a fan for years, pretty much of everything he does. But if I saw him in public there's no way I'd go and talk to him lmao, like l I'm socially awkward asf I can barely talk to someone I know, I'm not approaching a stranger like we're besties. Shit, I guess that's probably it though, they don't view celebrities as strangers.
when doja cat said this everyone called her demonic lmfao
Sips Tea 🍵 Loudly 😊
this was addressed about 13 minutes into the video. lets watch videos before rushing to comment
@@josteff894 same thought! People immediately hated on her, she was always in the right.
You know why.
@@suoutubez19 ik.. im talking about misogynoir.. chappell is undoubtedly going to be met with more acceptance and grace than this visibly black woman who got labeled as the devil themself for having boundaries.. this was done to young miami too when she simply asked that fans call her by her stage name.. black women are demanded an access and accessibility to their bodies and kindness that is exacerbated by the concept of fame.. but im sure all of that went over your head
The idea that celebrities "owe" fans something just because they're fans is insane to me, and I'm glad Chappell Roan spoke up about it. Fans make Chappell famous, and she gives us more songs to listen to and great shows to see, that's the exchange in that transaction. She doesn't owe anyone anything else.
Yes 100% I don't know why people act like she "owes" us anything, she's sharing her art/music/performances with us because that's her job. Her job is not to become best friends with every person who recognizes her and give everyone access to her private life.
it's seriously so weird how offended people get by people's boundaries. i didn't understand the treatment doja got for being like u ppl are weird bc she was right 💀
hopefully people will take chappell saying it more seriously because let’s be honest when a black woman expresses a boundary that’s taken completely different ://
Is it weird? When some folk still don't get how sexual consent works?
Fr like initially all that doja said was "I don't love my fans, because I don't know you" and I guess that shattered all the parasocial weirdos world's
Oh literally when she said that I was like yeah actually she's right, but people were soooooo heated and started insulting her, not only implying she had lost her mind but also mocking her intelligence because she dropped out of high school or college (can’t remember which), and telling her to go back to working at fast foods etc.... and I was like wow, people on twitter praise themselves for being open-minded, but i guess once they get mad they show their true colors. Especially when they can direct that anger at a black woman
nah her situation was different. i understand her wanting boundaries cuz that's literally a basic human need but going to the extent of calling her fans dumb, cuz they streamed her previous two albums and that won her a grammy and they are supposedly dumb because that album was a cash grab and mediocre. she was acting out on her fans for trying to find a fandom name and called them dumb for that. she doesn't need to love them, she can respect them thou. I agree with celebrities needing their boundaries and wanting to literally be left alone because they are human. But treating your fans who aren't toxic but just supporting you like shit is crazy. In this situation i'm totally in chappels side thou
reminds me of when daniel craig (i think) said actors love filming in sweden because people don't bother them here
Sweden sucks
If you bought an album then you are owed an album. If you pay for a ticket you are owed a concert. They don't owe you a photo or a conversation or a tweet or dm. That's it! That's getting what you paid for! And let's be real most of us aren't even paying for the music directly! Being upset at someone you praise for being real and public with their emotions/mental health when they say "hey y'all are frustrating me with this" is wild!
Not to mention how many public figures now have a following but not the insane funds needed to fly private, live in a gated/exclusive community, never go to target, etc to avoid the public altogether. I get the sentiment of boohoo go cry in your mansion, but that's not an excuse for our behavior as fans even if it was reality for everyone, and tbh I don't think it's great to push celebrities further away from being able to live like a regular person.
Idk man, I think we could all stand to chill out a bit lol
This!!
Facts
Thank you for talking about this important topic! I swear people can't understand the difference between setting boundaries and hating your fans :/
@@kaiduweirdo9412 with the rise of normalizing boundaries, they understand the concept. they just don't think famous ppl deserve the ability to set boundaries. at least that's my 2 cents
@@Roman-bw2fo This is it. Specifically because stans think the price of fame is the lack of boundaries/privacy, and celebrities should be, not just okay with this exchange, but willing and thrilled to make said exchange.
Just had an internet argument with someone who started out saying that fans are entitled to photos with celebs and ended with something like, "I just said asking for a photo is not a big deal" like bro, that's not what you initially said - you literally used the word ENTITLED. 💀
The vibes of his entire argument were that you should ask for a photo politely, but the celebrity essentially has no right to say no. Like what?! 😂 That's just an illusion of consent, what is even the point?
Clock ⏰ It 😮
"it's just one photo" falls apart very quickly when you have a large number of people saying that.
Yes I've gotten the same responses, "how dare you respect a rich person "
@@katerrinah5442 Or one person at a time, but multiple times a week.
Most people like to have a chat with somebody else; most people like to be appreciated. So most people at a certain low enough level of fame will welcome somebody coming up to say they like their work. But.
I think things would be overall better if people just didn't. If they kept expressions of appreciation to channels where the famous person is "on the job".
Some fans confuse their place in the relationship dynamic with fan - celebrity they feel entitled to the celebrity in their entirety because the celebrity owes "all the success" to them but that only makes them stakeholders, not shareholders .
They impact the celebrity and their work but are not entitled to anything, it's so interesting that the familiarity that comes with a parasocial relationships makes one so willing to disregard basic social contracts .
this this
This. No one is forcing fans to watch their movies, listen to their music, spend your money on merch and concerts. No one is forcing you to put someone up on a pedestal. That's the choice of the fans. Let people have some damn privacy.
People who say, “maybe you just can’t handle this life” should examine the “life” they’re talking about and if it has to be that way. Short answer: it doesn’t. Parasociality is bad for EVERYONE. Afford people their right to privacy no matter who they are.
Real Talk 😊
When people say "maybe she can't handle this life" it's like her job is to sing and entertain you on the stage. Off the stage she's not at work. Leave the woman alone! The idea that celebrity = consent for harassment and stalking is weird af
I feel like capitalism in America dangles the tiny tiny chance of riches or fame in front of everyone to keep them working under awful conditions and then the jealousy, obsession and twisted fan culture is considered a sacrifice anyone who gets that tiny chance at fame has to endure because people want to live through them. Gotta love the trauma culture ☠️
you summed up the cycle perfectly👍🏻
Perfect comment.
Wow! You summed it up!
The hunger games fr
Exactly
This reminds me so much of when Billie Eilish had to set boundaries around giving her fans hugs. She really wanted to, but people started getting entitled and it was taking hours, and people wouldn’t take no for an answer. She had to stop doing it all together, and a lot of people got really pissed at a 16 year old 😑
This is why I'm always skeptical of the Buzzfeed "I met X Celebrity and They Were So Rude" articles. Were they rude or did you not honor/accept their boundaries?
@@karrihart1 this! Also at the end of the day, that person is a human being like I am, has good and bad days and has boundaries that we should respect
I read one comment that said John Lennon and Christina Grimmie would not think Chappel is being selfish, and I couldn't agree more. With that level of fame, we can not trust that all 'fans' are going to have good intentions towards you.
Multiple celebs have been straight up k*lled by fans and everyone is SO SAD when it happens but continues to act like this with celebs like.... you're part of the problem babes!
this is not the "price of fame."
the people that are constantly on these apps following profiles and pouring this over-involved essence of engagement into everything are the issue. the people who share that kind of content and "signal boost" that kind of mentality are the issue. i think there's a real willful ignorance within a lot of the personalities that tend to perpetuate this kind of behavior, as they just don't care to see what they're doing as wrong or harmful.
I don't think we should entirely blame consumers though. There are bigger things at play here (social media, algorithms, publicity and marketing) that are further and further encroaching on our lives that encourage these weirdos.
@@shamaamamamamaah6928I feel that if we're talking about full grown adults over 25, they can handle a good 95% of the accountability. Media, an algorithm, marketing...is not enough to make me believe I'm entitled so someone's time. Some screws are rattling lose in some of these individuals.
@@shamaamamamamaah6928 That's just allowing the shifting of accountability though. I don't think it is at all constructive to make the claim that marketing ploys and "the algorithm" make people do this or perpetuate this behavior. People are individuals who choose their actions, and harassing, stalking, "deep diving" into a notable name just for the fun of it and your own interest is your individual decision, not one forced unto you by "the algorithm."
@@Smallshotty97it’s not an either/or situation. Marketing and social media DO perpetuate these toxic behaviors. If you think pointing that out isn’t constructive, then you’re just disregarding the psychological impact of these factors.
@@shamaamamamamaah6928
Love the way my response was removed!!
I'm a grown adult. Marketing and algorithms do not influence me to be entitled to someone's time and space. Let these adults take accountability.
Baby, the children don't remember the original Alt-Girl, Kelis! She would cuss you the f'k out in public She was always deadly serious about her being a singer was a job and not to harass her when she wasn't working! Of course, she was labeled difficult and rude. Naw just asking to respect her space!
Whenever I have seen a famous person in real life I always have figured the most respectful thing I can do is ignore them.
Thank you, I'm glad part of us are pushing back against this insane level of entitlement and dehumisation of celebrities. Celebrities deserve to be "off the clock" like the rest of us and be allowed to chill.
Girll parasocial relationships have BEEN crazy, just think about the paparazzi of the early 2000s or groupies of the 60s n 70s
But also groupies were underaged girls groomed by famous performers
Not all of them. Many were empowered and not ashamed of their sexuality and desire to buck the status quo expected of women
@Ouisija
@@Ouisijanot all of them
I'll never forget Britney Spears getting stalked and harassed by 30 men with cameras while she just tried to walk from a building to her car.
@@swampsprite9 exactly what i'm talking about. Horrible
I also have BPD, and this is making me realize that the internet itself has BPD when it comes to how we treat celebrities online. So much black and white thinking.
Interesting!! I want to learn more about BPD.
that's exactly what i've felt for the longest time. now that my BPD is better i see it much more clearly. what the hell is the reason for this?? and why is it so normal for it to be this way?
Since when did being a celebrity mean you had to accept people stalking and harassing you? Somome needs to do a PSA about why people setting boundaries is ok. And the people who willingly break them are always in the wrong.
@@lakegroce685 No because that's literally a crime?!? Like stalking is actually illegal, because of the harm it causes the person being stalked. And that most definitely applies to everyone, celebrity or not. It not different, or an exception because someone is famous, it's still a crime that causes harm to the person involved
Honestly I feel like the best rule of thumb is to only engage with public figures when they are "on" -- like at meet and greets and similar events. Anything else is asking them to do their job on their personal time, and that's simply not fair.
Sure, some celebrities are more tolerant of it, and mention even liking certain interactions (like Kaitlin Olson saying she loves when people shout "shut up, bird!" at her, or John Cena saying he likes when people come up to him and say "you can't see me"), but those should be treated as exceptions to the rule. And even those exceptions don't apply in situations where no normal human being wants someone trying to take up their time and get in their face.
I remember living in Atlanta when the Walking Dead was big and it was common to see the actors around certain areas. People would frequently mention how nice and patient Norman Reedus was, and how he was so willing to take pictures and sign autographs. And that's amazing for Norman Reedus, it's always kind of heartwarming to hear that people actually like interacting with fans. But in the same vein, people would be kinda critical that Andrew Lincoln didn't like being accosted while he was shopping at the midtown Trader Joe's and it's like... yeah, go figure, he doesn't know you and he's trying to buy toilet paper, leave him alone.
The levels of entitlement within Stan/Fandom culture are astronomical at this point and it’s getting to the point that multiple fandoms are toeing the line of becoming cults. I don’t know why people have seemed to have forgotten that popular artists/creators are human beings just like them and should be treated with the same amount of respect that everyone deserves.
👏👏👏
Always remember you are a dangerous stranger to everyone else too!
If it's not ok to do it with non famous people, then it's not normal to do it to famous people. Remember the word 'people' is there for a reason. Treat them like art, appreciate from afar unless told otherwise.
I was having a conversation about something similar with a friend the other day about social engagement/interaction and what seems to be the decline of civility generally, and we agreed that although social community and interaction is important, we seem to be evolving to be worse at it by pivoting to try to rely more on parasocial, virtual, and AI interactions than dealing with those around us and dealing with the direct repercussions of our bad social behaviors.
I feel like parasocial relationships make it easier to be as toxic/abusive/obsessed as you want to be without being directly associated with it, thereby avoiding being held accountable for your poor social behavior.
I think it was in Lady Emily's Cinemassacre video where she said (paraphrasing) "when you put someone on a pedestal, and they do something to fall from grace in your eyes...well, it's a long fall from that height." I think about line a lot, especially as I keep seeing it happen for the stupidest reasons online.
When a celebrity is doing a press tour, when they're at a meet and greet, when they're doing an interview, when they're clearly "at work", the expectations are different than when they're NOT working.
Celebrities aren't upset that they are recognized in public, they're upset that they're harrassed.
And I say this as someone who has seen Khadija in public and spoke to her 😂😭
I know nothing about this video except the title as it was uploaded 19 seconds ago but OH MY GOD THANK YOU!!! SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT! 😵💫
I see people claim that the idolization of celebrities is done but when parasocial relationships get outta hand like this sometimes I find that hard to believe.
Maybe ACTORS don't have that air of untouchability anymore like movie stars back then but I think singers/ pop stars (especially woman) are still dealing with this level of projection with their fans. It could be that with actors, usually people idolize the characters they play rather then them as a person whereas with singers they come on stage as themselves. Even if they do have a stage name or concept, for the most part their art is a part of them that people could relate to and feel seen. Not saying that actors don't get harrased but nowadays I think it's worse for singers in this new age of stan culture. OR nothing has changed in the last 60 years.
This is a really great point I hadn't considered! Singers and other performers who go on stage probably feel more tangible to fans to obsess over
I think also a big reason why the fans of musical artists have stronger parasocial relationships than the fans of actors is because there's a larger degree of separation between actors and fans.
Musical artists are expected and oftentimes even contractually obligated to perform at concerts, where their fans can be in the exact same physical space as them in real time. Not to mention the touring that most musical artists do, which gives fans even more opportunities to be in the same physical space as them.
On the other hand, pretty much the only time that fans can be in the same physical space as their favourite actor is at conventions. And even then, 1) most actors don't attend conventions, and 2) the ones that do attend conventions may not attend them every single year. Because of this, most fans can really only see their favourite actors from behind a screen.
Also singers often sing about their personal life so it creates a false sense of intimacy. Actors are playing a role.
Singers are also their own brand. The way they act and dress has to align with the music they make, which leads to people thinking that they know this specific artist
Commenting for the algorithm (haven't watched yet) but from the title alone...YEP.
As someone who used to frequent conventions, the bad behavior and entitlement of fans has made those spaces not so fun anymore. As an elder millennial, I'm honestly not used to, nor particularly interested in having recognition from my favorite artists. I never expected to interact with them and the rare times I've seen them in public I do not engage. Their work IS the engagement, that's how it should be. Listening, watching and fangirling with your friends or other fans is the engagement. Anything else is extra and not required and should not be expected from the artist.
The stuff online is wild too. Like hundreds of tweets at celebrities a day saying like this or ill off myself. Like wtf?
I’ve seen some people with moral OCD talk about how online parasocial relationships get compounded by “I only want to do the right thing, and that means I only support the Right people” and how you can fall into a spiral of trying to vet every single person/post/saying. I don’t have OCD and am in no way an expert on the topic, but I think there’s an interesting connection there by the fact that society doesn’t want us to hold onto the ambiguities, and that pattern just gets amplified online
I feel like I've observed the putting celebs on a pedestal leads to over the top hatred when they disappoint people (whether they've done something actually worth criticizing or not) for a while now, and I'm glad to see someone put it as well as you have! Ultimately, I don't really have "expectations" of celebrities or people I follow- I don't have to agree with or like everything they say or do, but I do have personal standards for what I'm comfortable supporting.
If someone whose work I like fails to meet my standards, then I simply stop engaging with their stuff and move along. And I hold those standards whether it's Chappell Roan, smaller, non famous musicians I like, online content creators or a random account on instagram I follow with 2,000 followers lol. It's the healthiest way I found I can engage with art (because I love music, movies, etc.) while still feeling like I'm living by my own values.
I think everyone on "Stan twitter" would be a little less stressed in their lives if they also took this approach lmao.
K-pop fans need to hear this
Hoyoverse fans need to hear this
ALL fans need to hear this
I wanna know what happened to kindly asking for an autograph from a celebrity. I went to a show for an artist I've been a fan of for over 15 years and was genuinely just concerned with making her feel uncomfortable next to a 30 year old 5’10” 190lb gay man she doesn't know as anything other than a paying fan. Girl, I didn't even touch her while she had her arm around my shoulder and kept my arm behind my back 💀.
Would you be comfortable sharing who the artist was?
I once broke up a friendship by email, explaining I couldn't be friends with them anymore, precisely because through no fault of their own, I valued their opinion too much & would put them on a piedestal, would believe their opinion over my own & would experience every criticism as a dagger. They were overly judgmental, but the fact is that I am the one who gave them that power over me. I'm the one who had to make a change. But it's hard not to fall into that pattern again.
Good for you! It can be very difficult and painful to cut ties with someone you value to excess!
This takes maturity and self awareness!
The awfulness of parasocial relationships is a huge reason I dont really interact with alot of fan bases. People are too quick to treat real life people as fictional characters. The moment I see that behavior being accepted im fucking OUTTA THERE
When she asks "would you yell out of your car at a random stranger on the street?" a lot of people would answer "yes" to that question. A lot.
Only a fraction of the way thru the video but so far this reminds me of your Jubilee response video where you took inventory of the people saying they were upset you participated, and how it negatively colored the way they percieved your overall character (something that we could not know as complete strangers).
In that vid you said "I am not yours." And it was such a simple statement but it has really helped me reconfigure how I view my interactions w others. Like alot of times we personalize the entire character of some random person like we're in create-a-sim and ignore their own autonomy. We remove their humanity to then fill the space with what we see as desirable. Its so fucked
Omg at 14:34 they mentioned it too 😂
I once saw Wes Anderson on the train and we made eye contact and he knew I saw him but I decided to not go up to him as he was on the train with his girlfriend
Thank you for doing this! I’m so glad Chappell Roan spoke out about creepy fan behavior. I’ve been witnessing it for about a decade and it is repellent. Such behavior has made me not want to attend the concerts of musicians I love, because I don’t want to be surrounded by creepy, entitled fans. This has to change. Respect personal boundaries, people!
listen. I live in LA.... I'm constantly in the vicinity of rich and famous people -- in fact I work with famous people's KIDS. it's SO SO SO inappropriate to invade their space or bring attention to them while they're just living their lives. I have seen celebs get SO anxious because they're out supporting their kids and they are getting random people coming up to them trying to photograph them. And on top of that these random people are photographing them and their CHILDREN. it's WEIRD. PLEASE DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THIS. I never approach unless they are WORKING (i.e. meet and greets, concerts, panels, etc.) if they aren't prepared to engage with fans DO NOT INTERACT. literally it's so weird.
Even from a purely selfish standpoint the stalking makes no sense because if she stops making music then what? Use your brains people leave people alone!!
I dont know how people approach anyone in public, let alone famous people. I dread having public interactions of any kind, let alone with someone I dont know.
SEATED!!
I fall into the "Who? Wait, why do I care?" camp most of the time since I am shit at recognizing people and don't follow most media things that would lead to knowledge of celebrities. For example, this video is the first I've heard of Roan.
BUT! I do find it very interesting how knowledge of, understanding about, and discussion of parasocial relationships and their issues is getting far more mainstream with social media becoming what it is. When I first heard about it back in my media theory classes way back when, it was still being talked about in the context of obsessive letter writing to and stalking of movie stars. Now it is an everyday experience of many people.
Thank you for talking about it.
Never heard this young lady's music but the discussions about her boundaries, celebrity culture, and parasocial relationships has been eye opening for me as an old head millennial
This honestly reminds me A LOT of when random fans started showing up at Katya Zamolodchikova's house after she went on Drag Race and she had to basically beg people to stop being creepy and overstepping boundaries. It is so concerning that there are people out there that think it's okay to just show up at a person's HOME without knowing them or being invited
4:42 Love the Madonna reference 😂❤
Sing! 'Canceling' and parasocial relationships need to be talked about in this context more.
Shit Everyone can take something away from the DBT toolbox; it's the only way I've found to defeat Main Character issues *and* reign in the AuDHD/ Rejection Sensitivity reactions that happen when I slip.
the idealization to devaluation cycle hit me really hard. thank you for explaining it so clearly.
Its AWFUL seeing so many comments INSULTING Chappell for wanting basic, the bare minimum respect and privacy she and her family are entitled to.
it’s weird how people flip and show their incel when they’re told no
‘Baby Reindeer’ really changed the narrative. I think it’s the new ‘Misery’.
But in India, we had ‘Pushpavalli’ which is a very good show.
People are right when they say it comes with the job, but that's a fucking PROBLEM, not an excuse to continue with toxic behaviours.
Exactly.
I've met a lot of celebs at my jobs. I've worked in high end hotels, and a globally known restaurant that's been on a lot of travel shows. I treat them like any other customer unless they go out of their way to be noticed. The very last thing they want is to be called out when they're just trying to eat. A lot of other servers couldn't grasp that, and would just immediately call them out.
Here it is: If they want to do meet and greets, they will. When I met Mandy Patinkin he was so friendly, loud - greeting every single person in the restaurant. He clearly enjoyed his fame.
When I met Sam Rockwell he was in a corner with his face down and a ballcap and sunglasses on. He wanted to be left alone, that was clear. I gave him his good and left him alone. It's not hard to figure out that celebs are individuals with different relationships to their fame. That means you also have to treat them like individuals.
Also I met The Temptations in their underwear. No I will not elaborate. Yes I was polite.
The entitlement that people feel to celebrities is wild to me. Like getting a photo or asking for an autograph at an event is one thing but I just don’t get bothering people when they are just running errands or with their family. As someone who does live in LA and has seen/run into a couple famous people at work/in public I just leave them alone or just interact with them like they’re a normal person. It’s not that hard just to give space.
It’s definitely not 😊
an exercise in delayed gratification: having to sit thru an ungodly amount of ads youtube is pumping out to get to amazing cultural commentary
“Fans” who believe artists owe them respect bc they stream their music is desperation. Separate yourself for sec and look at what ur doing… it’s straight embarrassing.
Girl, calling out the inherent manipulation in saying “you would be nothing without us,” had me on the floor. I always felt like it was gross but I didn’t know why. THATS WHY. Thank you for your help with that!
you're the only one who i've seen talking about celebrity's also needing to understand that being famous requires people knowing you while also hammering down that they're humans and obviously entitled to their boundaries! there's a time and a place for everything but life does not always work out in your favor and you need to be prepared for that
Ive gone through several videos addressing this whole thing and I appreciate your take a lot because while the others have made strong arguments in defence, you came in with a very educated and well researched perspective that addressed the larger social problem rather than just the specific online battles.
You make such a great point about our desire to see our idols being politically aligned with us. We feel so disconnected from our actual political representatives, even when you call and email and get the form letter response back it's hard to feel like your voice is heard, and politics make us feel....ambivalent at BEST. Celebrities feel like powerful people that we have greater access to, a greater connection to, because of the emotional nature of making and consuming art. So if our faves aren't doing what we think we'd do with their power and influence, or making political statements that we can agree with, we feel betrayed. How could someone who made music about how I feel, feel differently about this important political issue?? The answer is, they're a whole other person than me and I don't actually know their life.
I'm undecided as to whether it's inherently wrong or creepy to recognise a celebrity out on the street and ask for a picture or something. But if you do that and the person says no then you had better respect and accept that. Nobody's entitled to it.
Leave people alone when they’re not at work. Like you’d never go up to someone who clocked out of work and be like hey do this for me because I’m entitled to your time. There’s a time and a place for these interactions and when people are just going about their business is not it.
Folks actually really have that much Audacity & Do That Unfortunately. 😨
i love DBT as a fellow person w BPD and i think a lot of people could benefit from what it teaches even if they themselves do not suffer from a personality disorder. I was super excited to hear you make connections to it in this video, and i completely agree with you! great work
also worth noting...Even though Chappell chose to become a musician, i don't view that the same way as choosing fame. Most people don't become famous, plain and simple. It's known that she has only just now picked up a lot of traction in her career...years after she started. She's been working at it for a long time with little recognition and now all of a sudden there's SO MUCH. I hardly view that as something she "signed up for"
How was she supposed to know she'd blow up like this? Idk just doesn't make sense
I've been seeing a lot of people say things like "Celebrities definitely deserve some measure of privacy but it's hypocritical of them to expect to not be approached in public. They wanted to be famous, it comes with the territory" Is it hypocritical? Does fame inherently mean that other people are always entitled to your time? It seems like that's just a boundary that we collectively decided it was okay to break. It has certainly not always been like that, nor is it a universal idea across the world.
also, I never understood the argument that they “wanted to be famous” unless you’re someone like Kim Kardashian who explicitly wanted to become famous by any means necessary and literally became “famous” for being famous.
I don't feel like it's right to put that label on any musician or actor. Do people genuinely believe someone like Michael Jackson for example, set out to be famous? To the point where people fainted at the sight of him? When he had to close down grocery stores and hire actors to be shoppers? No, he started off as a kid who could sing & dance and wanted people to hear him sing and dance.
Most Actors and musicians are extremely shy off-stage or when they are not playing a character. Their art is an outlet to express themselves.
Fame is the last thing on the list.
that line about “an artist I really like and their political opinions do not matter more to me than my own” is gonna stick with me forever. loved this video as always your insights are invaluable
Thank you so much for making this video. You explain why it's so easy to fall into this trap and give just the right balance of compassion and tough love that people need for a wakeup call. I don't follow a lot of celebrities, but there are some fandoms I was in recently where things got extremely creepy and inappropriate by the fans (mostly women and nonbinary people) towards actors who are men. Your comparison to women who are frustrated by men demanding their attention is spot-on, and it feels like a lot of these fans don't see themselves in that role because of gender differences - but it's the same type of bad behavior that disrespects boundaries. We really need to check ourselves and each other to make sure we are respecting basic boundaries of the people we admire!