I play in a professional orchestra in the US. We normally tune at A=441 at the start of concerts for the reason you cite: It gives the orchestra a slightly brighter sound. However, during the course of a performance, we often find that the heat (generated by stage lights, warm air blown into instruments, and body heat) on stage, can LOWER the pitch due by approx. 2hz in a 40 minute time span. Heat and cold can also have drastic effects on church organs. So, performing Handel Messiah during the winter can be a very "sharp" experience.. whereas, performing with bright sunlight hitting the pipes can have the opposite effect.
Playing in a mostly covered orchestra pit during a ballet or opera can do crazy things to the overall pitch. During one full length ballet (“Sleeping Beauty”) the furnace that affected the stage and pit had problems because it was old. The heat began to rise and the pitch got higher and higher. We string players could play higher up on our strings if necessary, but the poor wind and brass players could only lip up or pull out tuning slides so far. We ended up tuning between every 2-3 dances. The ballet director was not happy with all of the stops and starts for tuning. During the first intermission our conductor very calmly gave him a very succinct lecture/demonstration about how heat can seriously affect the pitch of all instruments. It helped too that dance critics who were there to review the opening night of this ballet also noticed the pitch problem and wrote about it in the next morning’s newspapers. The furnace was replaced almost immediately. My grandfather played trombone in a military band during WWI. Years later one of my uncles received this trombone as a gift when we were preparing to sell the family home. He tried playing it but didn’t know about the old tuning. A 440 or the B flat above didn’t work on this horn so he sold it for scrap metal. It was very sad.
Really interesting. Thanks for sharing. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
As usual, a very clear and concise explanation of a convoluted topic. Coincidentally, I've been reading Robert Jourdain's book "Music, the Brain and Ecstasy" where he goes into this topic extensively. And my local symphony orchestra has been holding an online seminar series where they just talked about this as well. I'll pass your video on to them.
Hi, Gareth, and thank you. I am an Early Music performer and your video on this issue is far more than just interesting, it’s crucial for either begginers and professional musicias to expand their understanding and music skills; I’ve recently has worked with a russian string amd harpsychord ensemble a set of baroque pieces and despite the fact that they were excellent in playing ninetheenth and twentieth centuries composers, they had no experience in dealing with pre-440hz tuning, boldly they chose to face that and we spent hours in studio session to work it out, a mix of strain and final relief) Hope many watch your class keenly and get deeper in this issue.
Excellent lecture Gareth,. Many thanks. Sorry to nit-pick, but as an audio-engineer I feel I have to mention that Herz is written with a capital H. So, A=440 Hz.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
I love learning about the history of things. I'd like to know how music lessons were taught with Bach, and Mozart , and Chopin, and such. Did they learn to sing and read notes by sight and do intense ear training with drills, and music dictations, etc. before they started on klavier, violin, piano, etc.?? How often were lessons per week?? How long were they, 30 minutes, an hour, two hours?? It just seems that music lessons are just about playing the instruments right at the start!! Any thoughts??
Thanks for the video! Question: If JS bach's music was actually played a semitone lower, say, would it be prudent to play said music at that pitch or not?
I am very much a novice and self taught In music. I have always wondered how the frequencies were determined and the history of musical development generally. Cannot find a lot of information on it. Are the books at the library that you could recommend?
The frequency question is more about Physics and there’s plenty out there on that subject. As for the history of music there are many thick volumes. We have a recorded webinar series on the history of Baroque music at www.mmcourses.co.uk
432 Hz was Giuseppe Verdi's beloved tuning. And by the way, it was fun to learn that the diapason is called tuning fork in English. Use the fork unwisely and it'll cut like a knife!
Helmholtz (mid 19th century) put a good reconstructed history of pitch into his book on Sensations of Tone. He went back to old pipe organs with A = 392 Hz, also old bugles, etc. I doubt that anyone could measure the frequency of the tuning forks in Handel's time. I wonder what kind of vocabulary they used to argue about standard pitch 400 years ago. Anybody know? Handel's conclusion (or premise, perhaps) was that singers (and perhaps violinists) wanted to sound a little brighter than their competitors, so there was a natural tendency for standard pitch to move higher over many years, which may result in the key that is most often used to sing certain pieces may move down over many years, because the high notes get harder to hit.
Absolutely. I don’t think there was a great concern about achieving standard pitch 400 years ago. In fact standard pitch came about remarkably late and even now it’s not 100% standard.
I really enjoyed 2atching this video for some reason. I guess I was a bit thirsty for some off-beat knowledge. We need this once in a while to clear some clogged brain tunnels.
But sir, wouldn't the pitch the be based upon the 55 key box piano and the harpsichord and spinet??? And isn't that the reason why the tempered scale was created?
Having so many variations of concert pitch years ago must have been some headache for musicians travelling across Europe, Acceptable enough for instruments that can be tuned on site, but what about trumpets and the like.
Nothing worse than a history of an itch you can't reach. Oh wait you said musical pitch 🤐 Fully understanding pitch and knowing how to tweak it might win a Grammy like Jacob Collier did. Someday I would like to experiment with real-time instrument tuning in a DAW with MIDI trigger such that I can play/record chords on my electric piano while the tuning changes at particular measures, to create some fusion of tuning systems. I think changing my yamaha piano's tuning might be possible through a MIDI system message.
I suppose we’re lucky that at the very least people agreed to tune on the basis of A and not any note they wanted! In tunings other than equal temperament, I’m guessing that would’ve led to even more confusion and discrepancies
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I have learnt so much from Gareth. he is like the teacher you wished you'd had at school. :)
That’s most kind. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
I play in a professional orchestra in the US. We normally tune at A=441 at the start of concerts for the reason you cite: It gives the orchestra a slightly brighter sound. However, during the course of a performance, we often find that the heat (generated by stage lights, warm air blown into instruments, and body heat) on stage, can LOWER the pitch due by approx. 2hz in a 40 minute time span. Heat and cold can also have drastic effects on church organs. So, performing Handel Messiah during the winter can be a very "sharp" experience.. whereas, performing with bright sunlight hitting the pipes can have the opposite effect.
Most interesting. Thanks for sharing.
If you played it on the organ in my church it would sound out of tune anytime of the year! 😅
Playing in a mostly covered orchestra pit during a ballet or opera can do crazy things to the overall pitch. During one full length ballet (“Sleeping Beauty”) the furnace that affected the stage and pit had problems because it was old. The heat began to rise and the pitch got higher and higher. We string players could play higher up on our strings if necessary, but the poor wind and brass players could only lip up or pull out tuning slides so far. We ended up tuning between every 2-3 dances. The ballet director was not happy with all of the stops and starts for tuning. During the first intermission our conductor very calmly gave him a very succinct lecture/demonstration about how heat can seriously affect the pitch of all instruments. It helped too that dance critics who were there to review the opening night of this ballet also noticed the pitch problem and wrote about it in the next morning’s newspapers. The furnace was replaced almost immediately.
My grandfather played trombone in a military band during WWI. Years later one of my uncles received this trombone as a gift when we were preparing to sell the family home. He tried playing it but didn’t know about the old tuning. A 440 or the B flat above didn’t work on this horn so he sold it for scrap metal. It was very sad.
Really interesting. Thanks for sharing. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
I have a digital piano, and I often play baroque music a semitone lower with the touch of a button :) It makes a remarkable difference!
Good idea. See www.mmcourses.co.uk for much more including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
As usual, a very clear and concise explanation of a convoluted topic. Coincidentally, I've been reading Robert Jourdain's book "Music, the Brain and Ecstasy" where he goes into this topic extensively. And my local symphony orchestra has been holding an online seminar series where they just talked about this as well. I'll pass your video on to them.
That’s great. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
just wanted to mention that I enjoy your videos
That’s great. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
Hi, Gareth, and thank you. I am an Early Music performer and your video on this issue is far more than just interesting, it’s crucial for either begginers and professional musicias to expand their understanding and music skills; I’ve recently has worked with a russian string amd harpsychord ensemble a set of baroque pieces and despite the fact that they were excellent in playing ninetheenth and twentieth centuries composers, they had no experience in dealing with pre-440hz tuning, boldly they chose to face that and we spent hours in studio session to work it out, a mix of strain and final relief) Hope many watch your class keenly and get deeper in this issue.
That’s great. Thanks. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
Thank you, Gareth. Very instructive video, as usual.
Thank you. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
Excellent lecture Gareth,. Many thanks. Sorry to nit-pick, but as an audio-engineer I feel I have to mention that Herz is written with a capital H. So, A=440 Hz.
That’s good to clarify. Thanks.
I always wondered why my grandfather's trombone had two tuning slides. Now I know. Thank you so much.
That’s great. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
That is fascinating, Gareth.. I had no idea at all.. probably just never thought about it 🤦🏻♀️
Thank you!
😀
Thanks , I found it very interesting and informative .
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Thank You!!
Been waiting for this video!!
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
I love learning about the history of things.
I'd like to know how music lessons were taught with Bach, and Mozart , and Chopin, and such.
Did they learn to sing and read notes by sight and do intense ear training with drills, and music dictations, etc. before they started on klavier, violin, piano, etc.?? How often were lessons per week?? How long were they, 30 minutes, an hour, two hours??
It just seems that music lessons are just about playing the instruments right at the start!!
Any thoughts??
Interesting question. We could address that in a future video.
I found it quite interesting, thanks 🙋♂️
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
Thanks Gareth. Very interesting!
😀
Most productive 10 minutes I spent this month.
That’s great. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
Ty I enjoyed all of your vids and I have learned a lot!
That’s great. Plenty more at www.mmcourses.co.uk
I just found out why I sing out of pitch... I identify myself as baroque. Lol.
😀😀😀
Thanks for the video! Question: If JS bach's music was actually played a semitone lower, say, would it be prudent to play said music at that pitch or not?
Some performers play at Baroque pitch.
Thanks, Gareth. All new(s) to me!
That’s great. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
I am very much a novice and self taught In music. I have always wondered how the frequencies were determined and the history of musical development generally. Cannot find a lot of information on it. Are the books at the library that you could recommend?
The frequency question is more about Physics and there’s plenty out there on that subject. As for the history of music there are many thick volumes. We have a recorded webinar series on the history of Baroque music at www.mmcourses.co.uk
I always tune my piano to 448, or 432 hertz. Sounds best to my ears :) :) :)
Excellent. See www.mmcourses.co.uk for much more including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme.
432 Hz was Giuseppe Verdi's beloved tuning.
And by the way, it was fun to learn that the diapason is called tuning fork in English. Use the fork unwisely and it'll cut like a knife!
always interested !!!!!!!!!
Thank you.
Helmholtz (mid 19th century) put a good reconstructed history of pitch into his book on Sensations of Tone. He went back to old pipe organs with A = 392 Hz, also old bugles, etc. I doubt that anyone could measure the frequency of the tuning forks in Handel's time. I wonder what kind of vocabulary they used to argue about standard pitch 400 years ago. Anybody know?
Handel's conclusion (or premise, perhaps) was that singers (and perhaps violinists) wanted to sound a little brighter than their competitors, so there was a natural tendency for standard pitch to move higher over many years, which may result in the key that is most often used to sing certain pieces may move down over many years, because the high notes get harder to hit.
Absolutely. I don’t think there was a great concern about achieving standard pitch 400 years ago. In fact standard pitch came about remarkably late and even now it’s not 100% standard.
I really enjoyed 2atching this video for some reason. I guess I was a bit thirsty for some off-beat knowledge. We need this once in a while to clear some clogged brain tunnels.
That’s great
But sir, wouldn't the pitch the be based upon the 55 key box piano and the harpsichord and spinet??? And isn't that the reason why the tempered scale was created?
It depends on the date and context you’re considering.
Hi hello this is Taed from the USA good night I like the studies.
I’m glad it’s helpful.
Having so many variations of concert pitch years ago must have been some headache for musicians travelling across Europe, Acceptable enough for instruments that can be tuned on site, but what about trumpets and the like.
It certainly created difficulties. Another good reason to seek greater consistency.
what's consecutive pitch meaning
Notes next door to each other.
Thank you so much, sir. For the reply
@19kapilan A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk
Why only the A? What about the other tones?
A has been used for a very long time as the standard note to which instruments tune. Other notes then relate to A.
why the oboe ?
It can produce a reliable A, the sound is very defined and projection is good
Nothing worse than a history of an itch you can't reach. Oh wait you said musical pitch 🤐
Fully understanding pitch and knowing how to tweak it might win a Grammy like Jacob Collier did. Someday I would like to experiment with real-time instrument tuning in a DAW with MIDI trigger such that I can play/record chords on my electric piano while the tuning changes at particular measures, to create some fusion of tuning systems. I think changing my yamaha piano's tuning might be possible through a MIDI system message.
😀
I suppose we’re lucky that at the very least people agreed to tune on the basis of A and not any note they wanted! In tunings other than equal temperament, I’m guessing that would’ve led to even more confusion and discrepancies
Indeed!
Apparently some of the earlyBeat
Es music was recorded at A435.
Sorry, that is Beatles music at A435.
❤️
Thanks