This conversations serie is so interesting, I am learning so much.. I will watch it again and again. While reading professor' Finkelstein last book. Thank you so much for increasing humanity' knowledge! Why didn't I study archeology and history instead of biochemistry, argh.
I was looking forward to episode 24 in the conversation with Israel Finkelstein, but the weekly rhythm of uploading a new video was interrupted this time. What a pity.
@17:40 Finkelstein says: "we cannot ignore also the incorporation of Northern texts into the Judahite bible, the Jerusalem composition work of the 7th century BC" We've watched many episodes in this series about the narratives from the North (Ark, Jacob, Exodus, Saul) that were incorporated into the bible after 722. What were the narratives from the South in 722 that were incorporated into the bible? Was the David narrative (a great one admittedly) the only one incorporated? . . . We've heard that the Abraham narrative was southern, centered around Hebron, but are there indications that the Abraham narrative existed already in 722? I searched online, but the only early mentions of Abraham I found were exilic: - a criticism of Judahites back in Judah by the exile that the Exodus defined the Jewish people, not being descendent from Abraham (similar to the preference by Hosea of the Exodus over the Jacob narrative) - the addition of the birthplace of Abraham in Ur to his living in Haran in Syria, because the Babylonians respected the old city of Ur, and it could give the exiles more respect
Later, I watched the next episode in this series, and Finkelstein addressed the issue of Abraham, but didn't give any other narratives that had made it into the bible from the South. In the next episode at 25min and 48s Finkelstein says: "we have not discussed maybe enough the Judahite, the Southern patriarchal tradition of Abraham" and gives his views in the following two and a half minutes. But he didn't give a more precious date for Abraham than late monarchic Judah, maybe because the scholars are very split on this one.
Most people in the Northern Kingdom, like small farmers and herders, were not deported. The Assyrians filled empty spots in the conquered lands with people from other regions of their empire, either themselves deported or employed as leaders. The new inhabitants brought Aramaic with them that became the common language but also adjusted to some habits of the existing population over time, like worship of Yaweh, they intermarried with them, and together they became the Samaritans. . . . They attempted to assimilate with the Jews two centuries later but were rebuffed by Jewish leaders. Their bible is the Pentateuch and Joshua in Aramaic, which shows the Jewish influence on them but also their separation from the Jews. The Samaritans remained a strong and distinguishable group in Israel until the 6. century when they revolted against the East Roman Empire, were crushed and dispersed. Now, there are only a thousand of their religion left.
There weren't so many, because Israel was an agricultural society with mostly farmers and pastoralists. But the literati had been among the leaders of the North and carried their religious traditions with them, in their books and in their heads.
This conversations serie is so interesting, I am learning so much.. I will watch it again and again. While reading professor' Finkelstein last book. Thank you so much for increasing humanity' knowledge! Why didn't I study archeology and history instead of biochemistry, argh.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I was looking forward to episode 24 in the conversation with Israel Finkelstein, but the weekly rhythm of uploading a new video was interrupted this time. What a pity.
@17:40 Finkelstein says: "we cannot ignore also the incorporation of Northern texts into the Judahite bible, the Jerusalem composition work of the 7th century BC"
We've watched many episodes in this series about the narratives from the North (Ark, Jacob, Exodus, Saul) that were incorporated into the bible after 722. What were the narratives from the South in 722 that were incorporated into the bible? Was the David narrative (a great one admittedly) the only one incorporated?
. . . We've heard that the Abraham narrative was southern, centered around Hebron, but are there indications that the Abraham narrative existed already in 722? I searched online, but the only early mentions of Abraham I found were exilic:
- a criticism of Judahites back in Judah by the exile that the Exodus defined the Jewish people, not being descendent from Abraham (similar to the preference by Hosea of the Exodus over the Jacob narrative)
- the addition of the birthplace of Abraham in Ur to his living in Haran in Syria, because the Babylonians respected the old city of Ur, and it could give the exiles more respect
Later, I watched the next episode in this series, and Finkelstein addressed the issue of Abraham, but didn't give any other narratives that had made it into the bible from the South. In the next episode at 25min and 48s Finkelstein says: "we have not discussed maybe enough the Judahite, the Southern patriarchal tradition of Abraham" and gives his views in the following two and a half minutes. But he didn't give a more precious date for Abraham than late monarchic Judah, maybe because the scholars are very split on this one.
Fantastic comment. I’m confused as well.
What was happening in the lands of the former Northern Kingdom during this time?
Yes, it would be interesting to know if archaeology can show an equal decrease in population and acitivy.
Most people in the Northern Kingdom, like small farmers and herders, were not deported. The Assyrians filled empty spots in the conquered lands with people from other regions of their empire, either themselves deported or employed as leaders. The new inhabitants brought Aramaic with them that became the common language but also adjusted to some habits of the existing population over time, like worship of Yaweh, they intermarried with them, and together they became the Samaritans.
. . . They attempted to assimilate with the Jews two centuries later but were rebuffed by Jewish leaders. Their bible is the Pentateuch and Joshua in Aramaic, which shows the Jewish influence on them but also their separation from the Jews. The Samaritans remained a strong and distinguishable group in Israel until the 6. century when they revolted against the East Roman Empire, were crushed and dispersed. Now, there are only a thousand of their religion left.
Were there so many literati in the northern kingdom? So many intelligentsia?
Not really, but its about the size of their households. How many moved with them?
There weren't so many, because Israel was an agricultural society with mostly farmers and pastoralists. But the literati had been among the leaders of the North and carried their religious traditions with them, in their books and in their heads.