So, if there's only one thing to take away, it's that the STAPM behavior is on AMD's side and is being changed (improved) soon. And if there are two things to take away, it's that ASRock is working on BIOS updates to fix the bugs we found and reported. Next up, the 4080 Super -- what are the bets on its performance? Find our AMD RX 7600 XT GPU review here, posted a few days ago: ruclips.net/video/1aopp8XolXE/видео.html We're almost sold out of our Limited Disappointment Tour PC T-shirts! Grab one while they're still around: store.gamersnexus.net/products/disappointment-pc-2023-heather Find our high-quality, durable soldering mat on the store: store.gamersnexus.net/products/gn-project-soldering-mat Or grab one of our new mouse mats here! store.gamersnexus.net/products/15-yr-mouse-mat
I think the 8700G will only become interesting at the tail end of 2024, where it will probably drop price to around $250 or below and at that point RX 6500XT is probably out of the picture and RX 7500XT doesn't exist yet (hopefully it won't ever exist!) About 4080Super, I think it will not have any noticeable performance improvement but it will be $1000 msrp but you won't find it for msrp. And AMD will do a boring 50-100 price drop to 7900XTX dropping it officially to 800-850...
I think the other big takeaway is that you continue to do amazing things for the entire community. How long would it have taken for this to be figured out without this work? How many people would have gotten parts with this behavior? And of those, how many would have actually done a BIOS update later?
I was equally frustrated with asrock... I had to return the b650e pg itx because of non working memory context restore, long boots and inability to update bios more than once..
As much as it'd be nice to take that credit, honestly, I think the main reason it might not get coverage by some reviewers this time is because we were all getting killed by GPU launches. The turn-around on this was insane, and that's because of the GPUs. I don't blame anyone for keeping a review in this cycle focused on "normal" tests. It was a brutal launch cycle and for sure every reviewer covering both CPUs + GPUs is tired right now. The craziness comes in sprints in the hardware industry!
@@GamersNexus everyone needs some adrenaline in their lives, he may even have panels off to live on edge with those fans, it even could be case of "instructions were unclear"!
The only reason no other reviewer has caught this, is because no other reviewer does frequency validation. Thank you Steve and team, for holding Parts makers accountable to what they offer and sell.
Meanwhile, LTT labs made an in-depth video on how they saved company time and money by identifying 3 AMD CPUs with similar performance so that they can use them in simultaneous benchmarking. You can see where the difference in priorities lie.
@@scorpioassmodeusgtx1811 LTT Labs has been a disappointment for me. When buying all that stuff, I thought that expertise was part of the equation, but it looks like they literally bought millions of dollars worth of stuff and handed it to interns with no real insight into what the goals of these kinds of projects should be.
Thanks! Yeah, that review came in hot with the GPU reviews preceding it and we really wanted to figure out why you'd throttle a part for skin temperature when it's not in a mobile device anymore. Glad AMD is changing that behavior!
@@GamersNexusThis is why I gladly support . The quality of your testing & reviews, independent journalism, and consumer advocacy benefits us all. Hail Snowflake
GN, the new QA team for AMD. Great job in getting to the bottom of what you saw. Also Kudos to AMD for taking it seriously and responding rather than dismissing it til lots of people complained.
Tbf, gamers nexus is mega petty(and for us as consumers that's a good thing) and would make a video if they did ignore them and if it wasn't them, it would have taken a lot of people complaining for them to do so.
13:28 Go home, Steve, you're tired! 😂 Seriously though, don't work yourself to death. We need to keep an industry treasure like you around as long as possible.
I've been using the 5700g and I managed to get a year and a half of good gaming in before I finally upgraded to a discrete graphics card. I'm quite happy with my purchase, it's cool to see AMD take the APU route, it made so much sense to me at the time when GPU prices were bad.
I really respect and appreciate the fact that you guys delayed the launch of this video to dig deeper and understand what is really going on ... there are unfortunately not a lot of RUclipsrs in this space that would do that and you guys should be applauded for it.
I went to a Lossman Crack party and he knocked his brother out cold, we held his mom in our lap, his the ready rock.hard out of an apple with a straw and lost all out cash on Stake and BC. Bossman needed some more cash and though he is super straight, 20 bucks is 20 bucks. Things got really wild after that.
It’s never a good sign when you have to thank the reviewer for finding an issue they should have found first. This has become a scary trend where we as consumers end up being the test subjects 😂😊 great review though!!! Amd - “thanks Steve”
STAPM limits are also an "issue" in the 5600g/5700g Asrock products like the X300. Good review but what I miss is direct comparison between 8600g and 5600g and 8700g and 5700g
That Ryzen product wheel was worth a chuckle. You know your marketing department screwed up when they have to make a product code wheel for customers to make sense of their offerings.
Even though I'm really not a gamer (can't beat an exciting spreadsheet or computational fluid dynamics simulation), and avoided GN to start with to get tech updates, I've ended up gravitating here as my first choice of PC news
I have 8700G and 8600G systems, both on Asrock. The performance is excellent, 8700G is faster than 1070 in many games, especially newer ones. Power consumption is very low, like 30-35W at idle of the entire computer, and the APUs are extremely cool even under simple collers, even the box ones. AV1 encoder is working, which is why bought them. I tried a GPU, 6800XT is fully utilized and outputs the same framerate as on ryzen 7700X.
Thanks for your comment. AV1 encode is exactly why I've been interested in these as an upgrade from 5700G. (+ 6800 dGPU that doesnt need to upgrade yet)
@@betag24cn 5600G and 5700G had 20 PCIE lane CPU. Yeah, it's PCIE 3.0, but you don't need degree in r/pcmasterrace to understand pcie distribution because it's exactly the same with other Ryzen Like holyshit, PC community keep having dementia about stuff released only 3 years ago.
Great catch, Steve and all at Gamers Nexus! I can't think of anyone else online who consistently has established the kind of credibility and competence you have. Thanks for what you do.
i think it was more a confusion here, because they wanted this behavior on laptops as stated on the video something i think is happening again is too small team, too much work at amd, just like with drivers team
Idk why anybody would ever be surprised, theyre prone to releasing products with issues and fixing things later. For christ sakes even just as recent as RDNA with hotspot issues and bugs. Then there was RDNA1 and vega. Their CPUs are usually on point as hell but notice this is a CPU with an iGPU… meaning going into Radeon turf…
I'm 95% sure I ran in the same problem with STAPM years ago when I set up a Mini PC for my mother running a 3400G. I couldn't disable the freakin surface touch temperature threshold for the life of me.
Considering there's a sale on Gigglebyte Eagle RX 6600 for $160 on Amazon right now the 8700G only makes sense for media centers and VESA mounted Mini-ITX cases. But even at it's regular $200 price point, you can pair it with a Ryzen 5600 and still hit the same price. That said, building a VESA mounted Mini-ITX machine, and slapping in on the backside of my TV is EXACTLY what I'm going to do with one of these. My current media center is a full size ATX case with an abomination of random parts. It's noisy and it's bulky and it has way to many odd-ball SATA disks. Getting everything on to a 4TB NVMe in a small quiet package is going to be a bliss.
There are tools for APUs (i.e. "Universal x86 Tuning Utility") that can poke some MSRs and temporarily change all sorts of power management related parameters outside of the BIOS. It can also adjust iGPU clockspeeds. May be worth taking a look at.
@@MrQuay03 there are tools that can adjust some power limits under linux, but there are all sorts of weird things, like on my laptop (5500U) I can raise STAPM power, but the firmware resets it to stock every time it changes the fan speed
This processor is a strong contender for my wife's next computer refresh. She's currently rocking an i5-4460 with 8GB of memory paired with an RX560 and has started playing a ton of Minecraft which is showing how CPU and memory bound that system is. Other 2D and cozy games she plays tend to also seem to be more CPU-bound than anything. Plus it'll easily allow for a later upgrade by dropping in a GPU and be new enough to shuffle components into a different computer in 1-2 years if so needed
Thought process at AMD: + Hey i think we can profit more if we release these on the desktop for the office mini-pc market - Sure, do it! + Alright! *puts APU in a desktop format* + Alrighr it turns on, ship it.
Huh. I was expecting there to be a problem with the new chips, but I wasn't expecting STAPM power constraints. Great video, and I'm looking forward to your future career as a magician, Steve!
Hey, today my shipment of a mug and a Disappointment T-shirt arrived! What better way to celebrate this other than with a GN Video? Perfect timing, thanks Steve (and GN-Team)
Starting the iGPU benchmarks Excellent. A multitude of people actually use the integrated graphics for everything, mostly due to the computer either being a laptop, a prebuilt cheap computer, or an used office computer. I would like to see these also paired with the No External Power needed discrete GPUs as these will easily work their way into machines where the company uses some proprietary motherboard/power supply combination that does not have any PCIe power available.
Are there even current gen dedicated GPUs without the need for external power on the market? The most recent I can think of is the RX6400, which is rubbish.
@CheapBastard1988 a310 which probably is only good for basic display purposes. A low power version of the a380, good for multiple displays, low and occasionally medium settings on most games. A new cut down rtx 3050... about as good as the a380 but with cuda and tensor cores for running nvidia specific programs.
It’s funny for that stapm feature someone reused some code form the handheld that shouldn’t have been reused or at the very least heavely modified for the desktop variant. Good job gamer nexus team for catching it
Ones does not buy an APU for performance alone. These would mainly be for tiny boxes and minipc prebuilts that cant fit any kind of dGPU 8700 is also 40+% faster on CPU things, and r5+6600xt will get ~double the fps at the cost of ~double the power draw... apples and oranges.
@@greebj I still see little ITX gpus that can fit in little ITX cases like 4060 and 6600. but for tiny laptops and pocket pc like NUC I think yeah fine
@@matejboras9279 substantially faster on the CPU side and also much lower power, these get used for HTPC boxes and OEMs are not going to sell multiple generation old parts in prebuilts as these will likely find their way into low cost prebuilts. Why would you think these were intended to be the ultimate in low cost gaming even vs multiple generation old parts?
@@greebj Yeah I'm looking into building a mini PC for my mum, who obviously doesn't play video games. A graphics card is just another component that'll make noise, take up space, use power and potentially fail. Some people really struggle to understand that they don't represent the whole market.
So basically ignore the 8700G and get the 8600G because the APUs are still memory bandwidth limited. We really need Quad channel memory and DDR6 for APUs.
It's still playable in certain circumstances. E-sports titles running at playable framerates is still an achievement when you consider all the parameters around the APU.
@@rattlehead999 I'm not disputing that, in just saying if you're seriously budget constrained, but you want a good upgrade path for the nearish future, the 8700G is a fairly good deal.
@@angelaizen2231 I'd say an am4 board, r5 5500 and a rx 6600 is a much better choice than just a 8700G. You forget that both AM5 motherboards and DDR5 RAM is very expensive. Hell you might even be able to squeeze a RX 6700(XT) by going with an AM4 board, DDR4 and Ryzen 5 5500.
@badass6300 yea, that's fair enough. The 6700xt is a pretty great gpu for its current price. Hell, I even bought one 😅 it's just quite cool that an igpu is that close to being a fully functional gaming computer, albeit at 1080p. At least imo
The whole rant about Asrock bios being so bad and useless makes me chuckle because the lack of optimization they do with their motherboards is the reason why their motherboards were safe during the exploding AMD VPU debacle. Since they didnt bother optimizing performance and wattage distributions, they essentially got to avoid the pitfall ASUS and Gigabyte fell for.
Yeah I went 8600G with 6400MT memory, it all goes inside an Inwin BP655 SFF case, really nice looking but zero room for a dGPU. Lets me play light video games on my living room TV while drinking beer.
@@saricubra2867 Maybe it would surprise you, but most aren't constrained that much, especially with DDR5. We're talking about APUs here, CPUs with strong iGPU. There, memory is a constraint for sure.
I'm getting flashbacks to a year ago. There are so many little issues AMD could avoid at launch by simply bringing a few more people from the OC community in-house for pre-launch testing. We're lucky to have the work Bill and his small team do but it seems they could really use more people focused on benching desktop parts. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly issues get discovered that never should have made it to retail. I can only imagine what access to internal tools would do. I highly recommend people set most of their settings directly in AMD's bios menus instead of using the equivalent mobo UI. In my tests Asrock is fairly reliable overall now but issues like this don't surprise me. Their software/bios teams are the main thing holding back what is otherwise fantastic hardware now.
@@christopherjames9843 Yeah 10 years ago I wouldn't have even considered going Asrock but throughout the AM5 launch my X670E Taichi had far less stability issues than many I know with big name boards. Nearly every bios option for OC'ing that you need is usually available. Don't expect many specialty features but they also don't restrict settings for product segmentation. A B650E Riptide I also have is effectively identical to my Taichi, minus some board-specific options. To my surprise I even managed to get DDR5-8000 C34 daily stable on it which most 4-slot AM5 boards struggle with, especially in this price range. I've had some frustrations but as of the latest bios I really don't have anything to complain about.
I've gotten more Steve the Gray comments lately, but I'm not THAT old yet! hahaha. Half way through the second decade, and certainly not the GOAT. I'd say that's the likes of Scott Wasson, retired from Tech Report, and Gordon Mah Ung. But sincerely, thank you for the very kind comment! I love doing this work!
@GamersNexus Dam just miss the discount Code, just placed an order yesterday for the mod mat, toolkit, coasters with 2 Glass and a shirt, I’m in Australia so $345US was $525AUD (dam Australia high import tax), still excited to get it and happy to support people that choose quality over quantity! 👍 Great work as always Steve and your team! Always Looking forward for more content!
@@wasd____ the product makes sense for very small itx also for my market where second hand rx6600 does not exist and new is close to 450, the market is bigger than the country where you are and not everybody csn do what you say
I don't know if i didn't noticed it before, or its new, but the countdown bars on the sides for the time the graph will be displayed is a nice touch, i frequently have to rewing a bit to read the full info and this helps a lot. Thanks steve.
OMG 40 hours in@@GamersNexus STAP that man. You've given enough to keep ASROCK and AMD busy for some time. "Even the things you love may actually fucking kill you without proper moderation." - Me, I just made that shit up. It's true tho ^^
I feel like "STAP" is almost, as catchy as "Thanks Steve", not quite but, would certainly love to add this to your list of catch phrases. Thanks Steve!
For those wondering, APU's are really for the SFF world where the PSU in the 200~300W range and your using a half height mini-itx case. Inwin and Silverstone both make very stylish cases that fit perfectly in a modern home theater. With such a small power envelop we need to squeeze out the maximum amount of graphics performance per watt since case fan sounds and distracting and RBG lighting comes off tacky.
Can you compare the 8700g to something like a 7840HS ? What I am getting at is: does it make sense to buy a miniPC (f.e. Beelink, Minisforum and the like) with an 8700g (basically wait for them) or just buy an existing 7840HS options ? It seems the main difference is the memory tuning options.
Well, back in the day only anandtech exposed Nvidia LIED about the 1060s ROP spec. Because on paper it had more than 32, but in reality they were completely non-functional, and Nvidia was using this to pretend they were better than the 580 with more vram, which no. The 580 was more future proof and only anand showed the evidence and called out the marketing lies.
Ignoring the issues with STAPM for a moment; It still boggles my mind that AMD don't just kill the low end market by releasing genuinely competent graphics in their APU's. I mean we know they can do it. The consoles prove that again and again with every new iteration. It would make sense not to if they had a very profitable card in the 200$ price range, but considering that this price range no longer exists for gaming and everything in it can't come with insane profit margins it's just weird. They are literally just hurting themselves here.
Man I hated on you guys a lot a while back but I’ve come to realize your reviews have integrity and little to zero bias. Thanks guys. I snagged a few Ts today to contribute my support. Cheers!
I am surprised that it doesn't run that much, if at all better(iGPU) than my laptops 7840hs 780m with ddr5 6400. Thought the power limit increase will boost the gpu performance
This is ALSO why Asrock has to sell their MB typically for less than other companies and ALSO why you see their products go on sale more AND also why when there is a shortage of other MBs of a certain type (X570 now being one), there are plenty of Asrock MBs. I've had different issues with them one being their DIMM mounts and then I read reviews and people say the same thing which is having to reseat memory 2 - 3 times before their kits would work correctly. I got tired of issues with their MBs and just stopped using them.
I've had no issues with my Asrock mobo (Z690 PG Velocita, high end $400 board bought at less than $200 so insanely good value) but I can say that their bios is probably one of the worst ones. It's not really bad, just feels pretty limited (like others have much better fan control, for example). Asrock's software in general isn't great (rgb software made my screen glow random colors and then crash).
I just dont see the point of a desktop APU. Release prices are usually high enough that it brings you close to just going with the dedicated budget options that are a generation or two older, but still more powerful. You are also very tied to the price of memory too. Super small form factor or trying to cram everything into a 2U rack chassis without having to buy a server motherboard are the only cases I ever see a desktop APU make sense, and that is a small market. Using PC Part Picker I made a system with an 8700G and decent budget parts and came out to $631. I also did a system that has a 7600x and a 6600xt and it was only $80 more but would outperform the 8700G on its own by a lot. In both cases you would be on AM5 so could upgrade into a 9000+ series later and in both cases you could upgrade the DGPU for more power. You just would not be able to go tiny with the 7600x build. The only parts that changed in both builds was the APU and the CPU/GPU. So it would really come down to if you cant do that last $80 or not. I could have gotten it lower but I wanted a GPU that at least had 8gb of memory on it and was not older then last generation, and the only Nvidia option that fit that was the 3050 which would be $110 more then the 8700G build, and no one wants a 3050 anyway.
It has an extremey niche use case like mini pcs. Gamers will be best served with something like 12100f / 5500 + rx 6600 / arc 750. In fact it'll be both cheaper and faster considering am5 motherboard prices.
It's very niche, to say the least. Even if they lower the price the iGPU inside still remains too limited in performance for serious consideration, in my opinion.
Another good use of these APUs is that they are a great low cost option to getting on the AM5 platform, for then upgrading in the future. For low settings gaming these are fine. Buy the cpu, decent memory etc for way lower than $1000. Then later on, save up, and buy yourself a decent upgrade to the graphics card etc.. A lot of people just don't want to be spending the silly money we do just now in one go on a brand new gaming PC. I think this helps out with that. Great video as always!
@@frizzlefry1921 Tried everything you mentioned. Now reverted back to Bios F8 which works just fine. GPU (4090) works fine on any AM4 systems. F21a and F21(came out yesterday) are both behaving the same.
@GamersNexus great work on review and catching the STAP and bios issues. But as an APU user with almost zero intention of ever going back to a dGPU system again i was a little disppointed that the 5600g and 5700g were nowhere to be found outside of power consumption. while i can appricate the hard work your team is doing and understand it would be impossible to directly compare the AM4 APUs to the AM5 ones it does seem to be odd to not at least directly mention performance difference between predecessor and successor. hopefully if the team at GN revisits these cpus after the STAP issue is resolved we could get a performance comparison between the 5000g series and the 8000g series APUS
I think the use case for an APU is for stop gap type of build where you want a competent CPU that can play games, such as 8700G with that sweet sweet 8 cores and "good enough" iGPU, that build will allow you to play games and use the PC mostly for productivity task, you can then slot on a much better GPU along the line, and you still have that very competence 8 cores to do your task. Instead of buying a cheap and weak pair of CPU + GPU, sure you can play games now but with a dead end system you might as well build new, with these APU you allow yourself to have compromises and come back later to finished up your build.
one nice use case for these, is running Linux on the igpu, while doing pci passtrough for a dedicated gpu to a windows kvm, all that in like a mini itx form factor
That's actually a great use case thanks for mentioning it, finally one could get rid of windows as a main os system without using 2 gpus or dual booting
@@bocahdongo7769 sure but its a potato 2cu rdna2, ok if you just need a display out, but if you wanna be able to do some linux gaming on it or anything else 3d, this 8700g is so much nicer
@@bocahdongo7769 eh, whats the point of having linux if you cant even use it as a normal PC.... a windows VM should add to it, not replace it, otherwise you may as well just install windows on bare hardware and skip the linux part
Not to mention the cost of the AM5 + DDR5 platform. Dirty cheap AM4 + dirty cheap ZEN3 + some 6500xt or even cheaper gtx1660 will be much faster and cheaper.
Thanks for the video Steve. Your conclusion section made a lot of sense to me with what I'm seeing around in marketplaces for both New and Used. Re: Ebay for used GPUs - if you're willing to put the time in to vet and benchmark used GPUs there's a LOT of raster to be had for pretty steep discounts. I've been buying cards lately up here in West Virginia: 1 x RTX 3060 Ti for $220 shipped(works great), 1 x RTX 3060 Ti for $245 shipped(returned due to broken undisclosed PWM functionality - fans shoot straight to 100% idle on desktop, no reported RPM in GPU-Z/Afterburner), 1 x RTX 3070 for $285 shipped(works great). It took several hours to vet each card's thermals, raster performance compared to expected, and ensure fans all worked. However I'm using these cards to upgrade my friends' machines (yes I'm THAT GUY for my group of people). Anyway I wanted to report with a bit of detail in case you find my anecdotal experience interesting. With all this release testing I'm not sure how much time you have to dredge eBay GPUs! XD
Finally we have your review. It is funny how stupid those bios bug are. As many people said this is not worth at this time and at those prices right now. So I thought, what use cases would be good for those parts. I came up with a list: - office workstation, where graphic performance isn't important, but you need 2-3 displays (marketing, programming) - additional streaming station separate from gaming PC - small form factor pc for old games and/or emulation - pc for schools and education - mini home servers I didn't look at more use cases, just get those up from my head. From those I think most useful would be office work and education, because you still have not bad compute power and path to upgrade if needed. In the near feature there could be more uses, if people would put more effort to utilize build-in NPU. I still hope they would lower prices to make them more compelling.
@@SUNG0DRA Their "as we said, no" makes no sense unless someone is already aware of them saying that. I am aware because I already asked... maybe stand on a ladder so things don't go over your head so often
Does the "equivalent price" i3 12100f and rx 6600 count that for the APU also need to buy more ram? So you can allocate it to the cpu. Like cpu+gpu combo can probably play everything with 16gb of ram, but the apu may find problems if you allocate 6gb or 8gb of vram if you only have 16gb of ram.
The iGPU does not benefit from 6GB of RAM allocated because the game will be too demanding at that resolution and quality anyways. I expect it to use at most 4GB as vRAM, as this is not a 4k capable GPU. This leaves 12GB for the OS and the game, which is enough for most games. You should invest in faster RAM with the APU, which comes out to about $50.
@@LaughingOrange i think 12gb is already on the edge with games of the past two years, and if you want to have discord or music too, you may hit that already. I'm also thinking about the 24gb combos instead of 16gb, not the full 32.
Things like this are why I normally tell people to wait a year till they build on a new platform. I build them for friends and family as a hobby. I rarely get someone ask me to build them a computer though anymore. I think the last one I build was a Ryzen 7 3800x system back when it was the current thing. I am going to be building my Uncle a 7900X3D system this weekend.
agree, if you just want something plug and play for some one definitely always wait at least a year no matter who the manufacture is. if your willing/enjoy doing the extra work that comes along with new hardware then it's not as important.
Unfortunate to hear ASRock also has buggy BIOS'. At least they are fixing it though. Better than MSI. My Carbon Wifi X670E BIOS has tons of problems and MSI does not care. For a while you couldn't set a manual dram voltage. Any manual dram voltage, would cause it to not post. Even if you used the same value as the EXPO profile. MSI's response to me? "We don't support overclocking." Simply stunning. It did get fixed in the last BIOS revision, but there are still loads of issues. If you turn high voltage on for dram, every time you re-enter the BIOS, it turns itself back off (have to re-enable it every time, but it does work). Changing AMD nitro settings literally do not register as a change, so they do not get saved or applied. And how about having no option for changing eclk despite being MSI's third most expensive board? Terrible. And that's not even all the issues. Seems almost every vendor right now has glitchy broken problematic BIOS', despite charging more than ever for boards. I usually bought Asus but after the way they handled the X3D issues, I decided to try MSI this time around. At this point with these issues, I don't know if any vendor is any good.
wish we could just have a huge socket like Epyc and you just slotted CPU in one side and GPU in the other with HBM ram and a more or less giant thread ripper cooler
Yeah, it would be nice if you could defy physics and economics and just make things up in our minds. @@What-he5prit would cost even more. Look at what happened to mobile graphics card slots.
8700G is 335e atm in Greece. For ~380e I can build brand new (budget) B450M, R5 5500, 16GB DDR4 3200 and RX 6600. If you add 1TB SSD M.2, 500W CM PSU and CM Q500l case, it will be ~500e. This is if you care about budget FPS @ 1080p and dont want to throw 500e on PS5. 😎
So, if there's only one thing to take away, it's that the STAPM behavior is on AMD's side and is being changed (improved) soon. And if there are two things to take away, it's that ASRock is working on BIOS updates to fix the bugs we found and reported. Next up, the 4080 Super -- what are the bets on its performance?
Find our AMD RX 7600 XT GPU review here, posted a few days ago: ruclips.net/video/1aopp8XolXE/видео.html
We're almost sold out of our Limited Disappointment Tour PC T-shirts! Grab one while they're still around: store.gamersnexus.net/products/disappointment-pc-2023-heather
Find our high-quality, durable soldering mat on the store: store.gamersnexus.net/products/gn-project-soldering-mat
Or grab one of our new mouse mats here! store.gamersnexus.net/products/15-yr-mouse-mat
I think the 8700G will only become interesting at the tail end of 2024, where it will probably drop price to around $250 or below and at that point RX 6500XT is probably out of the picture and RX 7500XT doesn't exist yet (hopefully it won't ever exist!)
About 4080Super, I think it will not have any noticeable performance improvement but it will be $1000 msrp but you won't find it for msrp. And AMD will do a boring 50-100 price drop to 7900XTX dropping it officially to 800-850...
I think the other big takeaway is that you continue to do amazing things for the entire community.
How long would it have taken for this to be figured out without this work? How many people would have gotten parts with this behavior?
And of those, how many would have actually done a BIOS update later?
I was equally frustrated with asrock... I had to return the b650e pg itx because of non working memory context restore, long boots and inability to update bios more than once..
you didnt mention what wendal found', that the infinity fabric is not set to correct speed by default as this generation is clocked higher
broken ass BIOS 😂👍
No other reviewers caught the STAPM issue or Asrock bugs. This is how we know that Gamers Nexus is conducting THOROUGH, accurate testing.
As much as it'd be nice to take that credit, honestly, I think the main reason it might not get coverage by some reviewers this time is because we were all getting killed by GPU launches. The turn-around on this was insane, and that's because of the GPUs. I don't blame anyone for keeping a review in this cycle focused on "normal" tests. It was a brutal launch cycle and for sure every reviewer covering both CPUs + GPUs is tired right now. The craziness comes in sprints in the hardware industry!
@@GamersNexus
Thank you for everything you do. You and the rest of the team at Gamers Nexus are the best.
@@GamersNexusThank you for your honesty ☺️🙏
Because as Steve says, it does not really affect performance. So all reviews are still valid
@@GamersNexus But you are experiencing that same brutal launch cycle and you are able, and willing, to go deep enough to figure this out.
"You probably don't have your tower in your lap..."
Speak for yourself, Steve. YOU DON'T KNOW ME!
It must be wild going through the temperature swings and fan ramp!
Why? Are you some kind of reptilians? Do you need your Desktop as an external heat source to maintain your body temps?
@@GamersNexus everyone needs some adrenaline in their lives, he may even have panels off to live on edge with those fans, it even could be case of "instructions were unclear"!
I'm hoping it's not one of those 4ft tall full towers from the early 90s that weighs 40lbs empty. If it is WHY MAN?
I hope it isn't like my Cooler Master Cosmos II Ultra - that thing's a beast!@@frizzlefry1921
The only reason no other reviewer has caught this, is because no other reviewer does frequency validation. Thank you Steve and team, for holding Parts makers accountable to what they offer and sell.
Meanwhile, LTT labs made an in-depth video on how they saved company time and money by identifying 3 AMD CPUs with similar performance so that they can use them in simultaneous benchmarking.
You can see where the difference in priorities lie.
@@scorpioassmodeusgtx1811 LTT Labs has been a disappointment for me. When buying all that stuff, I thought that expertise was part of the equation, but it looks like they literally bought millions of dollars worth of stuff and handed it to interns with no real insight into what the goals of these kinds of projects should be.
@@scorpioassmodeusgtx1811but they are “slowing down” on how many videos they make per week so that is good right? 😂
LTT comparing a dozen of the exact same model of CPUs and only finding 3 that are comparable was actually quite interesting and revealing.
LTT comparing a dozen of the exact same model of CPUs and only finding 3 that are comparable was actually quite interesting and revealing.
GN dropping reviews AND replying to comments at like 2 AM their time is crazy. Y'all are absolute machines.
Love this stuff! Thank you!
@RishabhSingh-ix8zchi, GN is not based in India, therefore Indian time is irrelevant here
Or 5-6 A.M. if they're on the eastern part of the US.
@@ravingcrab8405Well, their last shirt shipped from Raleigh, NC lol.
@@rhéacevert i guess, RUclipsrs upload videos, especially when a large number of people are watching, (not sure about GN)
I was wondering why GN review of the APU was not on the embargo lift day. Good job guys.
Thanks! Yeah, that review came in hot with the GPU reviews preceding it and we really wanted to figure out why you'd throttle a part for skin temperature when it's not in a mobile device anymore. Glad AMD is changing that behavior!
@@GamersNexusThis is why I gladly support . The quality of your testing & reviews, independent journalism, and consumer advocacy benefits us all. Hail Snowflake
Im always willing to watch the best reviews even if not on embargo day. By best i mean in how much info there is
GN the most legit, dedicated and atention to detail.
Thanks steve!
@@GamersNexusI'm also glad AMD is trying to be more competent,
GN, the new QA team for AMD. Great job in getting to the bottom of what you saw. Also Kudos to AMD for taking it seriously and responding rather than dismissing it til lots of people complained.
also asrock, also gigabyte. probably others
Tbf, gamers nexus is mega petty(and for us as consumers that's a good thing) and would make a video if they did ignore them and if it wasn't them, it would have taken a lot of people complaining for them to do so.
13:28 Go home, Steve, you're tired! 😂
Seriously though, don't work yourself to death. We need to keep an industry treasure like you around as long as possible.
Someone needs to STAPM, indeed.
Absolutely agree. The last thing to world needs is Genres Nexus going total burnout and losing their minds....
Chill out and take a day off team.
LTT: fails to remove the protective film from a mouse before testing. GN: Catches odd behavior in an AMD CPU that AMD’s engineers missed.
Facts!
Not all frequency oddities are caught. I was doing research into why I was getting odd behavior with a 5600x. Sometimes things are just screwy.
Everyone makes mistakes
"He who has never sinned, throw the first stone" - Jesus
@@angelaizen2231 That one 4 year old boy who doesn't even know what a sin is but knows how to throw a stone:
@@Oneiric_Benevolence ignorance is a sin
Man, I love GN. Detailed and super informative videos, but always with a sprinkle of hilarious additions.
So fun to watch. Thanks Steve!
You're really out here making a difference, GN! thanks guys!
15:40 "We don't review a companies hopes and dreams"
That's why GN is the best. Thanks for keeping the bar high.
I've been using the 5700g and I managed to get a year and a half of good gaming in before I finally upgraded to a discrete graphics card. I'm quite happy with my purchase, it's cool to see AMD take the APU route, it made so much sense to me at the time when GPU prices were bad.
I would have loved this,but about five years ago.
AMD should update 5700g with 780M. That will be a bomb
I really respect and appreciate the fact that you guys delayed the launch of this video to dig deeper and understand what is really going on ... there are unfortunately not a lot of RUclipsrs in this space that would do that and you guys should be applauded for it.
"you're probably not holding the case and you're probably not holding the tower in your lap"
lan parties can get wild!
I went to a Lossman Crack party and he knocked his brother out cold, we held his mom in our lap, his the ready rock.hard out of an apple with a straw and lost all out cash on Stake and BC.
Bossman needed some more cash and though he is super straight, 20 bucks is 20 bucks. Things got really wild after that.
Please make a t-shirt that has “Before that…” on it!
Does the back say "after that?"
@@GamersNexus No, the back should say "Asrock broken-ass BIOS"))))))
@@GamersNexus the back says "Back (to you), Steve" xd
Dissapointment PC 2024 STAPM
how about a freeze frame of the infamous PSU explosion as a print?
It’s never a good sign when you have to thank the reviewer for finding an issue they should have found first. This has become a scary trend where we as consumers end up being the test subjects 😂😊 great review though!!!
Amd - “thanks Steve”
*Recalls memories of amd anti-lag+*
At least they're owning up to it and fixing it promptly.
It's called in gaming world; "beta tester". It's normal there that we have to deal with bugs and issues that the developers either missed or ignored
Didn't Linus try to make his audience do that?
Didn't Linus try to make his audience do that?
Great find on the stapm behavior I read several reviews and watched a couple videos and no one but you mentioned it. Keep up the great work GN team!
Thanks!
Wow! Thank you!
GN has become the final boss for all these huge corporations :D
Thank you so much!
🗿🗿🗿🗿
STAPM limits are also an "issue" in the 5600g/5700g Asrock products like the X300. Good review but what I miss is direct comparison between 8600g and 5600g and 8700g and 5700g
That Ryzen product wheel was worth a chuckle. You know your marketing department screwed up when they have to make a product code wheel for customers to make sense of their offerings.
Should def do a memory tuning episode. Would give you the practice and help a bunch of other people who wanna get into it
Especially with how sensitive Ryzen is to memory, I think it’ll have great information all around.
Even though I'm really not a gamer (can't beat an exciting spreadsheet or computational fluid dynamics simulation), and avoided GN to start with to get tech updates, I've ended up gravitating here as my first choice of PC news
I have 8700G and 8600G systems, both on Asrock. The performance is excellent, 8700G is faster than 1070 in many games, especially newer ones. Power consumption is very low, like 30-35W at idle of the entire computer, and the APUs are extremely cool even under simple collers, even the box ones. AV1 encoder is working, which is why bought them.
I tried a GPU, 6800XT is fully utilized and outputs the same framerate as on ryzen 7700X.
Thanks for your comment. AV1 encode is exactly why I've been interested in these as an upgrade from 5700G. (+ 6800 dGPU that doesnt need to upgrade yet)
kinda scary how often it comes down to tech reviewers and enthusiasts to find and fix issues in these expensive mass products
Even with the power limits fixed, I'm still disappointed by the PCIE lane count situation.
The G APUs Max PCIE lanes count?
@@jangelelcangry20 total PCIe 4.0, 16 usable. So 8x for PCIe 4.0 slot(s), and 2 by 4x M.2 Gen4.
For 8500G/8300G it's 10 usable (14 total, PCIe 4.0). That's 4 for the GPU (and 4+2 to 2 drives).
it is a apu, something had to be adjusted, if ypu dont like it, then a normal ryzen should be for you, dont forget to buy a gpu
@@betag24cn 5600G and 5700G had 20 PCIE lane CPU. Yeah, it's PCIE 3.0, but you don't need degree in r/pcmasterrace to understand pcie distribution because it's exactly the same with other Ryzen
Like holyshit, PC community keep having dementia about stuff released only 3 years ago.
You all do amazing work. Thank you GN team!
GN once again proves to be the ultimate source of PC hardware reviews.
But… Linus retests EVERY time 😂🙄
Great catch, Steve and all at Gamers Nexus! I can't think of anyone else online who consistently has established the kind of credibility and competence you have. Thanks for what you do.
I'm honestly stunned that regression testing at AMD didn't catch this behaviour.
i think it was more a confusion here, because they wanted this behavior on laptops as stated on the video
something i think is happening again is too small team, too much work at amd, just like with drivers team
@@betag24cnamd team is not small. They just suck as
BIOS issue
Idk why anybody would ever be surprised, theyre prone to releasing products with issues and fixing things later. For christ sakes even just as recent as RDNA with hotspot issues and bugs. Then there was RDNA1 and vega. Their CPUs are usually on point as hell but notice this is a CPU with an iGPU… meaning going into Radeon turf…
@@Angel7black lets say amd uses his fanbase for beta testing. However amd fans are will smith. they simp so hard.
Absolutely stellar work, great to have you guys.
Insane to think no one else so far pointed these STAPM issues out.
I'm 95% sure I ran in the same problem with STAPM years ago when I set up a Mini PC for my mother running a 3400G. I couldn't disable the freakin surface touch temperature threshold for the life of me.
Sounds like a BIOS issue
What brand motherboard?
Considering there's a sale on Gigglebyte Eagle RX 6600 for $160 on Amazon right now the 8700G only makes sense for media centers and VESA mounted Mini-ITX cases. But even at it's regular $200 price point, you can pair it with a Ryzen 5600 and still hit the same price.
That said, building a VESA mounted Mini-ITX machine, and slapping in on the backside of my TV is EXACTLY what I'm going to do with one of these. My current media center is a full size ATX case with an abomination of random parts. It's noisy and it's bulky and it has way to many odd-ball SATA disks. Getting everything on to a 4TB NVMe in a small quiet package is going to be a bliss.
Would love to see a collab with Buildzoid regarding the memory tuning performance. :)
especially after fixing tdp-stapm issue
I don't think GN and Buildzoid work together anymore. Some kind of issue iirc.
@@christopherjames9843 oh that's too bad
One could try the timings from "Easy memory timings for Hynix DDR5 with Ryzen 7000".
Every AMD release new Ryzen CPU there's always one BIOS from motherboard vendor messed up.
There are tools for APUs (i.e. "Universal x86 Tuning Utility") that can poke some MSRs and temporarily change all sorts of power management related parameters outside of the BIOS. It can also adjust iGPU clockspeeds. May be worth taking a look at.
Linux support?
@@MrQuay03 there are tools that can adjust some power limits under linux, but there are all sorts of weird things, like on my laptop (5500U) I can raise STAPM power, but the firmware resets it to stock every time it changes the fan speed
This processor is a strong contender for my wife's next computer refresh. She's currently rocking an i5-4460 with 8GB of memory paired with an RX560 and has started playing a ton of Minecraft which is showing how CPU and memory bound that system is. Other 2D and cozy games she plays tend to also seem to be more CPU-bound than anything. Plus it'll easily allow for a later upgrade by dropping in a GPU and be new enough to shuffle components into a different computer in 1-2 years if so needed
Thought process at AMD:
+ Hey i think we can profit more if we release these on the desktop for the office mini-pc market
- Sure, do it!
+ Alright!
*puts APU in a desktop format*
+ Alrighr it turns on, ship it.
Thank you for this video. It has really informed me for my next build. Your hard work is very appreciated!
Huh. I was expecting there to be a problem with the new chips, but I wasn't expecting STAPM power constraints. Great video, and I'm looking forward to your future career as a magician, Steve!
Hey, today my shipment of a mug and a Disappointment T-shirt arrived!
What better way to celebrate this other than with a GN Video?
Perfect timing, thanks Steve
(and GN-Team)
Starting the iGPU benchmarks Excellent. A multitude of people actually use the integrated graphics for everything, mostly due to the computer either being a laptop, a prebuilt cheap computer, or an used office computer. I would like to see these also paired with the No External Power needed discrete GPUs as these will easily work their way into machines where the company uses some proprietary motherboard/power supply combination that does not have any PCIe power available.
Are there even current gen dedicated GPUs without the need for external power on the market? The most recent I can think of is the RX6400, which is rubbish.
@CheapBastard1988 a310 which probably is only good for basic display purposes.
A low power version of the a380, good for multiple displays, low and occasionally medium settings on most games.
A new cut down rtx 3050... about as good as the a380 but with cuda and tensor cores for running nvidia specific programs.
@@CheapBastard1988 The rx 6400 was 12 rdna 2 cu, so this is going to be roughly the same performance as that, just built into the cpu.
It’s funny for that stapm feature someone reused some code form the handheld that shouldn’t have been reused or at the very least heavely modified for the desktop variant. Good job gamer nexus team for catching it
we found problem; it doesn't replace their own 200$ rx6600 + 80$ ryzen 5 3600 performance
Ones does not buy an APU for performance alone. These would mainly be for tiny boxes and minipc prebuilts that cant fit any kind of dGPU
8700 is also 40+% faster on CPU things, and r5+6600xt will get ~double the fps at the cost of ~double the power draw... apples and oranges.
@@greebj I still see little ITX gpus that can fit in little ITX cases like 4060 and 6600.
but for tiny laptops and pocket pc like NUC I think yeah fine
@@matejboras9279 substantially faster on the CPU side and also much lower power, these get used for HTPC boxes and OEMs are not going to sell multiple generation old parts in prebuilts as these will likely find their way into low cost prebuilts. Why would you think these were intended to be the ultimate in low cost gaming even vs multiple generation old parts?
@@PineyJusticejuicy good hardware for media server.
@@greebj Yeah I'm looking into building a mini PC for my mum, who obviously doesn't play video games. A graphics card is just another component that'll make noise, take up space, use power and potentially fail. Some people really struggle to understand that they don't represent the whole market.
So basically ignore the 8700G and get the 8600G because the APUs are still memory bandwidth limited. We really need Quad channel memory and DDR6 for APUs.
It's still playable in certain circumstances. E-sports titles running at playable framerates is still an achievement when you consider all the parameters around the APU.
@@angelaizen2231 The 5700G plays e-sports as well. The thing is that APUs need more bandwidth.
@@rattlehead999 I'm not disputing that, in just saying if you're seriously budget constrained, but you want a good upgrade path for the nearish future, the 8700G is a fairly good deal.
@@angelaizen2231 I'd say an am4 board, r5 5500 and a rx 6600 is a much better choice than just a 8700G.
You forget that both AM5 motherboards and DDR5 RAM is very expensive.
Hell you might even be able to squeeze a RX 6700(XT) by going with an AM4 board, DDR4 and Ryzen 5 5500.
@badass6300 yea, that's fair enough. The 6700xt is a pretty great gpu for its current price. Hell, I even bought one 😅 it's just quite cool that an igpu is that close to being a fully functional gaming computer, albeit at 1080p. At least imo
The whole rant about Asrock bios being so bad and useless makes me chuckle because the lack of optimization they do with their motherboards is the reason why their motherboards were safe during the exploding AMD VPU debacle. Since they didnt bother optimizing performance and wattage distributions, they essentially got to avoid the pitfall ASUS and Gigabyte fell for.
Seeing how 8700G is quite constrained by memory, I think I'll consider 8600G for my mini PC. At very least, it's cheaper.
Yeah I went 8600G with 6400MT memory, it all goes inside an Inwin BP655 SFF case, really nice looking but zero room for a dGPU. Lets me play light video games on my living room TV while drinking beer.
Which CPU isn't constrained by memory?
My i7-12700K: 12 core and 20 thread, but dual channel lmao.
@@saricubra2867 Maybe it would surprise you, but most aren't constrained that much, especially with DDR5. We're talking about APUs here, CPUs with strong iGPU. There, memory is a constraint for sure.
I'm getting flashbacks to a year ago. There are so many little issues AMD could avoid at launch by simply bringing a few more people from the OC community in-house for pre-launch testing. We're lucky to have the work Bill and his small team do but it seems they could really use more people focused on benching desktop parts. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly issues get discovered that never should have made it to retail. I can only imagine what access to internal tools would do.
I highly recommend people set most of their settings directly in AMD's bios menus instead of using the equivalent mobo UI. In my tests Asrock is fairly reliable overall now but issues like this don't surprise me. Their software/bios teams are the main thing holding back what is otherwise fantastic hardware now.
I like my B550 and X570 Taichi boards. The bios is a bit wonky but you can make stuff work.
@@christopherjames9843 Yeah 10 years ago I wouldn't have even considered going Asrock but throughout the AM5 launch my X670E Taichi had far less stability issues than many I know with big name boards. Nearly every bios option for OC'ing that you need is usually available. Don't expect many specialty features but they also don't restrict settings for product segmentation.
A B650E Riptide I also have is effectively identical to my Taichi, minus some board-specific options. To my surprise I even managed to get DDR5-8000 C34 daily stable on it which most 4-slot AM5 boards struggle with, especially in this price range. I've had some frustrations but as of the latest bios I really don't have anything to complain about.
Of course, it's GN team that found this issue. Well done you all!
Wait, you mean LTT labs didn’t pick up on the fact that the chips are set to handheld mode from the factory!?
My shock is overwhelming.
The GOAT of hardware reviews for litterally decades !
Splendid job m8. Well done and laid out.
I've gotten more Steve the Gray comments lately, but I'm not THAT old yet! hahaha. Half way through the second decade, and certainly not the GOAT. I'd say that's the likes of Scott Wasson, retired from Tech Report, and Gordon Mah Ung. But sincerely, thank you for the very kind comment! I love doing this work!
@GamersNexus Dam just miss the discount Code, just placed an order yesterday for the mod mat, toolkit, coasters with 2 Glass and a shirt, I’m in Australia so $345US was $525AUD (dam Australia high import tax), still excited to get it and happy to support people that choose quality over quantity! 👍 Great work as always Steve and your team! Always Looking forward for more content!
nice to see the disappointedment 2024 timeline shirt is off to a great start
for a bios update? i think you didnt saw other years with pcs in flames or exploding psus
@@betag24cn For a product that makes sense for almost no one because it gets absolutely stomped for the same price by a budget CPU + RX 6600 combo.
@@wasd____ the product makes sense for very small itx
also for my market where second hand rx6600 does not exist and new is close to 450, the market is bigger than the country where you are and not everybody csn do what you say
Wow. You guys are awesome! You basically did more quality control and checks than AMD themselves!
I bought your autographed modmat :)
I don't know if i didn't noticed it before, or its new, but the countdown bars on the sides for the time the graph will be displayed is a nice touch, i frequently have to rewing a bit to read the full info and this helps a lot.
Thanks steve.
You forgot to mention the included cooler, which saves on the cost especially on a budget.
The STAPM catch was really cool. Kudos on that.
Simply amazing level of attetion to details and great commitment to dointg an excellent job! thanks for your great reviews!
Thankyou for this review and delaying it to give a proper review.
You guys must be working crazy overtime rn. Hope you and the team can get some good rest once all the reviews are out
I did 40 hours on Saturday & Sunday! Love this stuff but also can't wait for a break to refresh and dive back in.
OMG 40 hours in@@GamersNexus STAP that man. You've given enough to keep ASROCK and AMD busy for some time.
"Even the things you love may actually fucking kill you without proper moderation." - Me, I just made that shit up.
It's true tho ^^
I feel like "STAP" is almost, as catchy as "Thanks Steve", not quite but, would certainly love to add this to your list of catch phrases. Thanks Steve!
I love watching videos like this as if I COULD EVER AFFORD STUFF LIKE THIS!!!
1050ti and 3770 still going strong.
RX 580 and 2500k over here
For those wondering, APU's are really for the SFF world where the PSU in the 200~300W range and your using a half height mini-itx case. Inwin and Silverstone both make very stylish cases that fit perfectly in a modern home theater. With such a small power envelop we need to squeeze out the maximum amount of graphics performance per watt since case fan sounds and distracting and RBG lighting comes off tacky.
Can you compare the 8700g to something like a 7840HS ? What I am getting at is: does it make sense to buy a miniPC (f.e. Beelink, Minisforum and the like) with an 8700g (basically wait for them) or just buy an existing 7840HS options ?
It seems the main difference is the memory tuning options.
Seconded.
And TDP
Ah yes, the infamous AMD drivers. New products get crap drivers and while they're focusing on fixing them, older products are left to rot.
GN is probably the only YT channel that caught that issue/s. Nicely done Steve & company.
Well, back in the day only anandtech exposed Nvidia LIED about the 1060s ROP spec. Because on paper it had more than 32, but in reality they were completely non-functional, and Nvidia was using this to pretend they were better than the 580 with more vram, which no. The 580 was more future proof and only anand showed the evidence and called out the marketing lies.
Ignoring the issues with STAPM for a moment; It still boggles my mind that AMD don't just kill the low end market by releasing genuinely competent graphics in their APU's. I mean we know they can do it. The consoles prove that again and again with every new iteration. It would make sense not to if they had a very profitable card in the 200$ price range, but considering that this price range no longer exists for gaming and everything in it can't come with insane profit margins it's just weird. They are literally just hurting themselves here.
The Disappointment will never STAP!
Neither will the use of STAP in the comments for the next few months.... years? 😏
1:55 - Steve, i fucking DIED laughing at "Broken Ass BIOS"
We Found problems - Ryzen keeps releasing new chips more than Call of duty games
Just wait for the Ryzen Modern Chipfare 2, III. (and on a serious note, it's good that they're releasing so many lately - a lot of them are AM4!)
*AMD
@GamersNexus is it a good time to upgrade my 3600?
Staptain price skin
@@GamersNexus Happy about it since I built my 1st AM4 system a bit over a year ago, who knew the upgrade path would continue!
Man I hated on you guys a lot a while back but I’ve come to realize your reviews have integrity and little to zero bias.
Thanks guys. I snagged a few Ts today to contribute my support.
Cheers!
I am surprised that it doesn't run that much, if at all better(iGPU) than my laptops 7840hs 780m with ddr5 6400. Thought the power limit increase will boost the gpu performance
Yeah, the performance gains are marginal. The Legion Go / Rog Ally /7840hs laptops aren't much slower, despite drawing way less watts.
Did I miss a previous vid discussing what was being tested here? I feel like this is a part 2 where the intro got lopped off.
This is ALSO why Asrock has to sell their MB typically for less than other companies and ALSO why you see their products go on sale more AND also why when there is a shortage of other MBs of a certain type (X570 now being one), there are plenty of Asrock MBs.
I've had different issues with them one being their DIMM mounts and then I read reviews and people say the same thing which is having to reseat memory 2 - 3 times before their kits would work correctly.
I got tired of issues with their MBs and just stopped using them.
Then the ASRock BIOS and all its baggage.
I've had no issues with my Asrock mobo (Z690 PG Velocita, high end $400 board bought at less than $200 so insanely good value) but I can say that their bios is probably one of the worst ones. It's not really bad, just feels pretty limited (like others have much better fan control, for example). Asrock's software in general isn't great (rgb software made my screen glow random colors and then crash).
I just dont see the point of a desktop APU. Release prices are usually high enough that it brings you close to just going with the dedicated budget options that are a generation or two older, but still more powerful. You are also very tied to the price of memory too.
Super small form factor or trying to cram everything into a 2U rack chassis without having to buy a server motherboard are the only cases I ever see a desktop APU make sense, and that is a small market.
Using PC Part Picker I made a system with an 8700G and decent budget parts and came out to $631. I also did a system that has a 7600x and a 6600xt and it was only $80 more but would outperform the 8700G on its own by a lot. In both cases you would be on AM5 so could upgrade into a 9000+ series later and in both cases you could upgrade the DGPU for more power. You just would not be able to go tiny with the 7600x build. The only parts that changed in both builds was the APU and the CPU/GPU. So it would really come down to if you cant do that last $80 or not.
I could have gotten it lower but I wanted a GPU that at least had 8gb of memory on it and was not older then last generation, and the only Nvidia option that fit that was the 3050 which would be $110 more then the 8700G build, and no one wants a 3050 anyway.
R7 8700G looks interesting and should be a good contender once sorted out.
theyve already sorted it out
not at its current price point. At least 50 money units lower and it will start to be pretty interesting.
It has an extremey niche use case like mini pcs. Gamers will be best served with something like 12100f / 5500 + rx 6600 / arc 750. In fact it'll be both cheaper and faster considering am5 motherboard prices.
It's very niche, to say the least. Even if they lower the price the iGPU inside still remains too limited in performance for serious consideration, in my opinion.
Not when its limited to PCIe 4.0 with only 8 lanes for PCIe slot(s) and 2 by 4x M.2 Gen4 :(
Another good use of these APUs is that they are a great low cost option to getting on the AM5 platform, for then upgrading in the future.
For low settings gaming these are fine. Buy the cpu, decent memory etc for way lower than $1000. Then later on, save up, and buy yourself a decent upgrade to the graphics card etc..
A lot of people just don't want to be spending the silly money we do just now in one go on a brand new gaming PC. I think this helps out with that. Great video as always!
GN always going next level with the testing. Putting this together so quickly is crazy. Well done.
Now, the problem is my GPU would lock at PCIe x1 on EVERY COLD boot since AGESA 1.1.x.x on Gigabyte boards with a 7950x...😢
Reset bios and reflash, have you tried the gpu on another m/b?
@@frizzlefry1921 Tried everything you mentioned. Now reverted back to Bios F8 which works just fine. GPU (4090) works fine on any AM4 systems. F21a and F21(came out yesterday) are both behaving the same.
@GamersNexus great work on review and catching the STAP and bios issues. But as an APU user with almost zero intention of ever going back to a dGPU system again i was a little disppointed that the 5600g and 5700g were nowhere to be found outside of power consumption. while i can appricate the hard work your team is doing and understand it would be impossible to directly compare the AM4 APUs to the AM5 ones it does seem to be odd to not at least directly mention performance difference between predecessor and successor. hopefully if the team at GN revisits these cpus after the STAP issue is resolved we could get a performance comparison between the 5000g series and the 8000g series APUS
I think the use case for an APU is for stop gap type of build where you want a competent CPU that can play games, such as 8700G with that sweet sweet 8 cores and "good enough" iGPU, that build will allow you to play games and use the PC mostly for productivity task, you can then slot on a much better GPU along the line, and you still have that very competence 8 cores to do your task. Instead of buying a cheap and weak pair of CPU + GPU, sure you can play games now but with a dead end system you might as well build new, with these APU you allow yourself to have compromises and come back later to finished up your build.
It makes sense in any country which doesn't have a 1500$ minimum wage.
Something like Romania where the minimum wage is 300$, this CPU is a god-send.
Yeah, that's why we included the 4090 tests to show the ceiling of the CPU.
But the problem is you can buy 7500f + rx 6600 for roughly the same price as 8700g and with much better performance.
And the advantage of temperature control of the APU and performance on time.
@@beachslap7359 But you can upgrade the system with am5.
Gamer Nexus never stap delivering great videos. :D
one nice use case for these, is running Linux on the igpu, while doing pci passtrough for a dedicated gpu to a windows kvm, all that in like a mini itx form factor
That's actually a great use case thanks for mentioning it, finally one could get rid of windows as a main os system without using 2 gpus or dual booting
Guys, Ryzen 7000 already had iGPU if you wanna display.
Gez PC community somehow having dementia about stuff releasing only 1 years ago.
@@bocahdongo7769 sure but its a potato 2cu rdna2, ok if you just need a display out, but if you wanna be able to do some linux gaming on it or anything else 3d, this 8700g is so much nicer
@@GodOfGamingBG wait, i though you only wanna used it for VM display only from GPU passthru
@@bocahdongo7769 eh, whats the point of having linux if you cant even use it as a normal PC.... a windows VM should add to it, not replace it, otherwise you may as well just install windows on bare hardware and skip the linux part
This is the review I was waiting for. Thanks again GamersNexus! 😃
Not to mention the cost of the AM5 + DDR5 platform.
Dirty cheap AM4 + dirty cheap ZEN3 + some 6500xt or even cheaper gtx1660 will be much faster and cheaper.
To be fair a A620 board +32gb ddr5 6000 is not even that expensive
Make sure you have PCI-E4.0 when using 6500XT
Ryzen 5500 CPU for example only support PCI-E3.0
Thanks for the video Steve. Your conclusion section made a lot of sense to me with what I'm seeing around in marketplaces for both New and Used. Re: Ebay for used GPUs - if you're willing to put the time in to vet and benchmark used GPUs there's a LOT of raster to be had for pretty steep discounts. I've been buying cards lately up here in West Virginia: 1 x RTX 3060 Ti for $220 shipped(works great), 1 x RTX 3060 Ti for $245 shipped(returned due to broken undisclosed PWM functionality - fans shoot straight to 100% idle on desktop, no reported RPM in GPU-Z/Afterburner), 1 x RTX 3070 for $285 shipped(works great).
It took several hours to vet each card's thermals, raster performance compared to expected, and ensure fans all worked. However I'm using these cards to upgrade my friends' machines (yes I'm THAT GUY for my group of people). Anyway I wanted to report with a bit of detail in case you find my anecdotal experience interesting. With all this release testing I'm not sure how much time you have to dredge eBay GPUs! XD
Where is the igpu review 😡
it was right there ...
Finally we have your review. It is funny how stupid those bios bug are.
As many people said this is not worth at this time and at those prices right now. So I thought, what use cases would be good for those parts. I came up with a list:
- office workstation, where graphic performance isn't important, but you need 2-3 displays (marketing, programming)
- additional streaming station separate from gaming PC
- small form factor pc for old games and/or emulation
- pc for schools and education
- mini home servers
I didn't look at more use cases, just get those up from my head. From those I think most useful would be office work and education, because you still have not bad compute power and path to upgrade if needed. In the near feature there could be more uses, if people would put more effort to utilize build-in NPU. I still hope they would lower prices to make them more compelling.
If you willing spend more money ofc
Because 5600G is right there. Perform well enough for mundane task and simple gaming, and 2x cheaper overall
Still waiting for your best cases of 2023. Are you going to do it ?😊
As we said, no, because we paused our case reviews last year to overhaul the methods. We'll do one this year.
Yeah they already said no to me a couple of weeks or so ago, weren't you paying attention 🤔 😛
@@Skobeloff... Gamers Nexus already replied to him with a better answer, weren't you paying attention 🤔 😛
@@SUNG0DRA Their "as we said, no" makes no sense unless someone is already aware of them saying that. I am aware because I already asked... maybe stand on a ladder so things don't go over your head so often
@@Skobeloff... I think... therefore I am 🤔 😛
Amd does not even publish cpu errata lately. Revision guides for zen 4 are not published at all.
Does the "equivalent price" i3 12100f and rx 6600 count that for the APU also need to buy more ram? So you can allocate it to the cpu. Like cpu+gpu combo can probably play everything with 16gb of ram, but the apu may find problems if you allocate 6gb or 8gb of vram if you only have 16gb of ram.
The iGPU does not benefit from 6GB of RAM allocated because the game will be too demanding at that resolution and quality anyways. I expect it to use at most 4GB as vRAM, as this is not a 4k capable GPU. This leaves 12GB for the OS and the game, which is enough for most games.
You should invest in faster RAM with the APU, which comes out to about $50.
@@LaughingOrange i think 12gb is already on the edge with games of the past two years, and if you want to have discord or music too, you may hit that already.
I'm also thinking about the 24gb combos instead of 16gb, not the full 32.
Things like this are why I normally tell people to wait a year till they build on a new platform. I build them for friends and family as a hobby. I rarely get someone ask me to build them a computer though anymore. I think the last one I build was a Ryzen 7 3800x system back when it was the current thing. I am going to be building my Uncle a 7900X3D system this weekend.
agree, if you just want something plug and play for some one definitely always wait at least a year no matter who the manufacture is. if your willing/enjoy doing the extra work that comes along with new hardware then it's not as important.
The 7900x3D is not a good value. You're better off going 7800x3D or 7950x
oh boy when it starts like that it will be fun
Looks like these are going to be incredibly fun to overclock. Thanks, GN team! Now go get some rest.
the game bugs at release's phenomena are spreading to the hardware market lol.
Unfortunate to hear ASRock also has buggy BIOS'. At least they are fixing it though. Better than MSI. My Carbon Wifi X670E BIOS has tons of problems and MSI does not care.
For a while you couldn't set a manual dram voltage. Any manual dram voltage, would cause it to not post. Even if you used the same value as the EXPO profile. MSI's response to me? "We don't support overclocking." Simply stunning. It did get fixed in the last BIOS revision, but there are still loads of issues.
If you turn high voltage on for dram, every time you re-enter the BIOS, it turns itself back off (have to re-enable it every time, but it does work).
Changing AMD nitro settings literally do not register as a change, so they do not get saved or applied.
And how about having no option for changing eclk despite being MSI's third most expensive board?
Terrible. And that's not even all the issues.
Seems almost every vendor right now has glitchy broken problematic BIOS', despite charging more than ever for boards. I usually bought Asus but after the way they handled the X3D issues, I decided to try MSI this time around. At this point with these issues, I don't know if any vendor is any good.
So glad you talked about a tight build single solution, wow, I am surprised but you did it. just resubbed for that alone
wish we could just have a huge socket like Epyc and you just slotted CPU in one side and GPU in the other with HBM ram and a more or less giant thread ripper cooler
That would have cost as much as an epyc
Yeah, it would be nice if you could defy physics and economics and just make things up in our minds. @@What-he5prit would cost even more. Look at what happened to mobile graphics card slots.
8700G is 335e atm in Greece. For ~380e I can build brand new (budget) B450M, R5 5500, 16GB DDR4 3200 and RX 6600. If you add 1TB SSD M.2, 500W CM PSU and CM Q500l case, it will be ~500e.
This is if you care about budget FPS @ 1080p and dont want to throw 500e on PS5. 😎
AMD has seen the floor littered with companies who blow off testing results from steve.