Hello. I worked in the Netherlands on secondment from my UK employer, British Telecomm. I was transferred to what then was called Telfort and I worked on what is known as fixed line service (land line telephony, not mobiles). I transferred to Amsterdam in late December 1998. I was there until June 2003 when my home company sold off its mobile concern to another company. Telfort was cut in size so didn’t need us ex-pats so were sent back to the UK. I had a great time in the Netherlands, was sent on technical courses with Ericssons in Netherlands and Sweden along with another telecoms manufacturer in Hilversum so I came back to the UK with more skills and experience. The Netherlands and UK habits and the way workers are treated is so different to the US. I have a little experience of US working life, I worked there for 6 months in 1994 again seconded. The amount of annual leave and sick leave did not compare. My US colleagues just couldn’t believe that in December I had 3 days off for Christmas and one day off for New Years Day. I worked there from January 1994 to August 1994 but there was only one public holiday, July the 4th. I had to forego my usual 2 ½ day Easter holiday, May Day, and the two-day Spring Bank Holiday. Luckily in work I was employed under UK conditions and was by a UK manager on secondment the same as myself and another UK colleague. Nearly every week we had a letter from some hopeful enclosing their CV asking for work.
A few years ago there was a campaign by the goverment. With the slogan : "geld lenen kost geld". That means :"loaning money, costs money"They still have to show this slogan after an ad about loans
There's actually a bank in the Netherlands that doesn't even have credit card & loan services: Triodos bank. They only allow a debt on your regular bank account of €1000 or €1500 max!
I live in a town and only supermarkets, restaurants and big box shops are open on Sundays. And we have one Sunday a month where every shop is open on Sunday, but only after 12:00. So people going to church have no problem reaching church or find a parking spot, otherwise used by shoppers. Churches and shops are almost always in the town center. Every municipality can decide for themselves about opening hours of shops.
A Credit Card (Visa , Mastercard etc) issued in NL is always linked to your Dutch bank account and what you can afford ... So running up enourmous debt is impossible .. .. Its different form of credit (controlled) than US or UK..
While they function mostly the same "credit" cards in the Netherlands aren't in fact credit cards (VISA is the only exception as far as I know). They are in fact debit cards that are due monthly without any long term loans attached to it.
On the work and life balance: "In the list of countries with the shortest average working weeks in 2022, the Netherlands (32.4 hours) was followed by Austria (33.7 hours), Norway (34.1 hours) and Denmark and Germany (both 34.6 hours)."
Most credit card users in the Netherlands just pay for what they bought at the end of the month if they pay with credit card, so they don’t actually have a debt. We have a MasterCard and we only use it for online purchases that cannot be payed for with IDeal or paypall or on vacations if we absolutely must.
That’s smart. My parents did the same with theirs as back in the day sometimes it was easier to pay with a credit card instead of a paper check. Then they would pay the card balance off.
Ah, sure it might change but I think it won't happen very fast. The reason for it is the difference between banking systems and how credit is financed. As you know with American banking your credit score is THE measure how 'credit worthy' a person is. Were I to move to the USA and transfer all of my capital to the USA I still wouldn't have a 'credit score' to judge my habit on repayment. Basically you are only judging the capacity to pay back a loan you might take out. In the Netherlands it is the complete opposite: You are judged on the mentality of paying back the loan. If you don't pay back, you are registered as 'sorry you didn't pay the loan for your phone, sorry we won't even sell you a new phone'. Think BKR is the name that checks every loan.
Makes total sense. In the US young adults are encouraged to get a credit card, even with a low limit as to “establish credit”. My dad in his later years had to declare bankruptcy because of high medical bills. After a few months, credit card applications came flooding in.
Like you wrote in your comment, we have the BKR (Bureau of Credit Registration). Every debt is registered here and this register has to be consulted by every shop, organization or institution that sells you a product or service with a debt. A bank (for mortgage, a loan or even an overdraft on your bank account), an insurance company, a telephone provider (where you close a deal including a mobile, not for SIM only), a mailorder company or any shop where you can buy and pay later, a credit card company, the student loan institution from the government etc. So they are obliged to check at this BKR if you are financial solid enough of having this new debt by the product they want to sell you. It is called a duty of care for the customer, it is legally anchored in consumer law when selling a product or service with a debt. I am registered at this organization because I have a mortgage, but that is the only debt I want. That is the reason I have set my bank accounts for zero overdraft, repaid my student loans in record time. I have a credit card, but only use it abroad and repay every month when I purchase anything with it (after a month it will be registered or if you have a repayment plan). I have a mortgage otherwise I wouldn’t be able to buy a house, but I am repaying more than the bank has set for me. I am now at only 43% of my initial mortgage, and the house has risen in value also, so against the value of the house, the percentage is even lower. I feel I have to make extra repayments so I’m not in high debt when I retire in about 7 years. If necessary I can sell my house and buy a smaller house or apartment.
It's the way many of us were raised: never ever enter a debt that you can avoid if that debt isn't an investment that can pay back for itself. So, a loan for buying a house or for your college education is fine, because you'll usually be able to sell the house again (often even for a better price) if things go south, and your education should result in you securing a better job in the future. A loan for, say, a holiday or nice furniture isn't because the value of these things only depreciates. You only allow yourself such luxury things once you already have the money for them. Same goes for credit cards: they're fine as long as you actually (already) have the money to pay off your temporary 'debt'. And even then, I prefer to just pay directly from my bank account but that's just personal preference, and credit cards are still a useful tool to have in your wallet for some situations. Of course there'll always be grey areas and room for discussion about how strictly you follow such rules in your personal life, but generally the principle has suited me fine.
Road infrastructure is a great example, because it's relatively non-partisan. Dem and rep presidents brought it up for decades. But nothing is happening except for patching things up. Some vision and how to get there is needed, like the Dutch did with their cycling infrastructure
I'm retired and have never done overtime. Yes, at least 25 days paid vacation so that's 5 weeks off per year. If you fiddle around a bit with official holidays you can combine those with your vacation days. This year Christmas falls on Monday and Tuesday. Oh look, also the 1st of January falls on a Monday. So if I take 3 vacation days I'll get 10 days off. Yes, Americans spend their money on "stuff". We spend our money on our families, hobbies, vacations, etc. On the other hand not only we but also our close geographical competitors stop "the machine". So, a level playing field.
@ACwebseries I watch quite a few channels about Americans that now live in the Netherlands, at least they bring something to this country, they don't create trouble, and than there are the the troublemakers from other countries that create trouble, they don't contribute nothing....
Taxes must be seen as an investment , People wanting good roads and infrastucture fine but you must invest in it . and with good infrastructure and roads you can make more money as traveling times are cut safing milions in transtits. the faster you cant transport the more money you make . easy economics . It seems americans dont see their country as a viable investment.
@@ACwebseries The funny thing is that it really shows "the market will regulate itself" doesn't really work for people, because "the market" will only go as far as what the people will put up with.
It's easy to believe in paying taxes if one has faith in the government. I have none. None of the taxes I pay makes for a better life or better infrastructure. Most countries are hopelessly corrupt. If the Dutch have overcome this, I'm glad for them, but it hasn't happened in very many places. Also, The NL doesn't provide what many people wrongly refer to as "free" healthcare. You have to buy private insurance. Similar, but not exactly like the U.S., but very different indeed from Canada or the UK.
Unfortunately the Dutch health insurance system is sliding down the same slippery slope as the US health care system, just in the beginning phases. Pay more, get less. But that’s a whole other topic… and video!
@johnbarthof777. It's sad te read you don't have faith in your country's government and in the spending of the taxes you have to pay. It must feel like you living in the wrong place. Many US people have the opposit feelings and move to European countries if they have the opportunity. What is your favorite country to go to if you have the opportunity?
@@johnbartholf777 ah, OK nice place, and Dutch!🇳🇱👍👍 Actually my daughter and son in-law emigrated from NL to the US, bc they think they have more opportunities there than in NL. US is not my favorite land btw.
@@lbergen001 A friend from Utrecht moved to the U.S. and was told by others who had done the same that for the first 6 months, maybe a year, he would absolutely hate it. Just everything about it. After that, he'd never ever want to leave or go back to NL or live anywhere else 😂 People are certainly a peculiar species.
Hi 😊 about the taxes here, they are the highest in Europe. For example the taxes on gas and i mean energie gas, it kost about 30 cents a kube but we pay 70 cents. Those 40 cents is taxes! The same with groceries, fuel, healthcare and so on.... We see little to nothing in return of those taxes, it's going to the immigrants and Ukraine 😢 also the violence is increasing. Shootings and stabbings are a dayley thing here now. No the Netherlands is become more and more like the US unfortunately 😢
I agree on most you state. Everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. Cutting taxes is so bad for a nation, it brings America down. And yes.... the US has, for some reason, very much on some of our riggtwing politicians. DON'T BELIEVE IN TRICKLE DOWN
"Tax morale" is not as self evident anymore. Partly because not everybody has to pay taxes equally and the Netherlands is a tax haven and has 'rulings' for corporations of which the amount is secret, but also because we've had a right wing government for 12 years now. The collective tax and social security burden, basically the difference between the cost and the income of an employee, has moved up from about 35% to 40% in those 12 years of right wing government. What we get in return for that in terms of public services has been worse than ever imagined. It has only partly crumbled yet but there are cracks everywhere. We do pay for people and corporations that are less deserving. The sunday of rest has traditonally been very important to many kinds of Dutch protestants and there are still quite a few strict ones. They won't watch tv, don't pay for anything (making another person work on the lord's day) some even still take the rooster away from the hens. They want silence in their villages too. We tend to respect it when people feel very strongly about something and working can easily have an impact on their sunday too. The unions and the social democrats have teamed up with the protestants in the past, because they had a common interest in this. It's not unimportant, part time supermarket jobs aren't the issue. But you can for example get the whole family, all nephews and nices all 30 of them together from all over the country on a sunday just as long as you set the date early enough. About 20 years a worked at a place where the unions had done an excellent job overall and where many of the employees were from the protestant country sides: Saturday 200% Saturday after six 225%, sunday 300%. There wasn't regular work done on sunday of course, but if it needed to be because something unplanned went on, it was easy to find people like me willing to come and work.
Wow. Very interesting. Thx for your stories. Religion is a big reason for a Sat or Sun off. In Israel, only Saturday was the day of rest. Sunday was a regular work and school day.
Great post. Just one note: The Netherlands has not had a left government since the 70's. But indeed, things got worse in the last 12-13 years due to the VVD. They are not just on the right, they are far right populist libertarians. They have caused great damage to institutions, social cohesion and trust in government and institutions, not to mention all the outright scandals.
Perhaps it is economically good to borrow, spend money and then earn back. This is even the case at the level of countries (also the Netherlands, but certainly the USA). But as far as I'm concerned it remains risky because it remains a form of passing on the blame to the next generation. I suspect that the Dutch are much more of the principle of 'hand on the purse'. Don't spend until you have the money. Spending now without having the money is good for the industry and not for the person. Typical American…
![Chino Pacas - Smith (ft. Junior H & Fuerza Regida) [Video Visualizador Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BVK6k56X30Y/mqdefault.jpg)
My grandpa said; " een gelijk man is een rijk man" Wich translates to: An equal ( in money) man is a rich man. Very wise words.
Hello. I worked in the Netherlands on secondment from my UK employer, British Telecomm. I was transferred to what then was called Telfort and I worked on what is known as fixed line service (land line telephony, not mobiles). I transferred to Amsterdam in late December 1998. I was there until June 2003 when my home company sold off its mobile concern to another company. Telfort was cut in size so didn’t need us ex-pats so were sent back to the UK. I had a great time in the Netherlands, was sent on technical courses with Ericssons in Netherlands and Sweden along with another telecoms manufacturer in Hilversum so I came back to the UK with more skills and experience. The Netherlands and UK habits and the way workers are treated is so different to the US. I have a little experience of US working life, I worked there for 6 months in 1994 again seconded. The amount of annual leave and sick leave did not compare. My US colleagues just couldn’t believe that in December I had 3 days off for Christmas and one day off for New Years Day. I worked there from January 1994 to August 1994 but there was only one public holiday, July the 4th. I had to forego my usual 2 ½ day Easter holiday, May Day, and the two-day Spring Bank Holiday. Luckily in work I was employed under UK conditions and was by a UK manager on secondment the same as myself and another UK colleague. Nearly every week we had a letter from some hopeful enclosing their CV asking for work.
A few years ago there was a campaign by the goverment. With the slogan : "geld lenen kost geld". That means :"loaning money, costs money"They still have to show this slogan after an ad about loans
Yep… still see and hear it
The "Happiness index" really translates to "fewer worries index". Fewer things to worry about in your day to day life
Some also say happiness is a measure of fulfilled or unfulfilled dreams/goals.
Free time can be used also for personal development and time with family
There's actually a bank in the Netherlands that doesn't even have credit card & loan services: Triodos bank. They only allow a debt on your regular bank account of €1000 or €1500 max!
I live in a town and only supermarkets, restaurants and big box shops are open on Sundays. And we have one Sunday a month where every shop is open on Sunday, but only after 12:00. So people going to church have no problem reaching church or find a parking spot, otherwise used by shoppers. Churches and shops are almost always in the town center. Every municipality can decide for themselves about opening hours of shops.
A Credit Card (Visa , Mastercard etc) issued in NL is always linked to your Dutch bank account and what you can afford ... So running up enourmous debt is impossible .. .. Its different form of credit (controlled) than US or UK..
Interesting to know. In the US you can still get credit even after you go bankrupt.
While they function mostly the same "credit" cards in the Netherlands aren't in fact credit cards (VISA is the only exception as far as I know). They are in fact debit cards that are due monthly without any long term loans attached to it.
On the work and life balance: "In the list of countries with the shortest average working weeks in 2022, the Netherlands (32.4 hours) was followed by Austria (33.7 hours), Norway (34.1 hours) and Denmark and Germany (both 34.6 hours)."
Most credit card users in the Netherlands just pay for what they bought at the end of the month if they pay with credit card, so they don’t actually have a debt.
We have a MasterCard and we only use it for online purchases that cannot be payed for with IDeal or paypall or on vacations if we absolutely must.
That’s smart. My parents did the same with theirs as back in the day sometimes it was easier to pay with a credit card instead of a paper check. Then they would pay the card balance off.
Ah, sure it might change but I think it won't happen very fast. The reason for it is the difference between banking systems and how credit is financed. As you know with American banking your credit score is THE measure how 'credit worthy' a person is. Were I to move to the USA and transfer all of my capital to the USA I still wouldn't have a 'credit score' to judge my habit on repayment. Basically you are only judging the capacity to pay back a loan you might take out.
In the Netherlands it is the complete opposite: You are judged on the mentality of paying back the loan. If you don't pay back, you are registered as 'sorry you didn't pay the loan for your phone, sorry we won't even sell you a new phone'. Think BKR is the name that checks every loan.
Makes total sense. In the US young adults are encouraged to get a credit card, even with a low limit as to “establish credit”. My dad in his later years had to declare bankruptcy because of high medical bills. After a few months, credit card applications came flooding in.
In Australia we also have credit scores....
Like you wrote in your comment, we have the BKR (Bureau of Credit Registration). Every debt is registered here and this register has to be consulted by every shop, organization or institution that sells you a product or service with a debt. A bank (for mortgage, a loan or even an overdraft on your bank account), an insurance company, a telephone provider (where you close a deal including a mobile, not for SIM only), a mailorder company or any shop where you can buy and pay later, a credit card company, the student loan institution from the government etc. So they are obliged to check at this BKR if you are financial solid enough of having this new debt by the product they want to sell you. It is called a duty of care for the customer, it is legally anchored in consumer law when selling a product or service with a debt. I am registered at this organization because I have a mortgage, but that is the only debt I want. That is the reason I have set my bank accounts for zero overdraft, repaid my student loans in record time. I have a credit card, but only use it abroad and repay every month when I purchase anything with it (after a month it will be registered or if you have a repayment plan). I have a mortgage otherwise I wouldn’t be able to buy a house, but I am repaying more than the bank has set for me. I am now at only 43% of my initial mortgage, and the house has risen in value also, so against the value of the house, the percentage is even lower. I feel I have to make extra repayments so I’m not in high debt when I retire in about 7 years. If necessary I can sell my house and buy a smaller house or apartment.
interesting to know, thank you !
It's the way many of us were raised: never ever enter a debt that you can avoid if that debt isn't an investment that can pay back for itself.
So, a loan for buying a house or for your college education is fine, because you'll usually be able to sell the house again (often even for a better price) if things go south, and your education should result in you securing a better job in the future. A loan for, say, a holiday or nice furniture isn't because the value of these things only depreciates. You only allow yourself such luxury things once you already have the money for them. Same goes for credit cards: they're fine as long as you actually (already) have the money to pay off your temporary 'debt'. And even then, I prefer to just pay directly from my bank account but that's just personal preference, and credit cards are still a useful tool to have in your wallet for some situations.
Of course there'll always be grey areas and room for discussion about how strictly you follow such rules in your personal life, but generally the principle has suited me fine.
Great way to live!
Road infrastructure is a great example, because it's relatively non-partisan. Dem and rep presidents brought it up for decades. But nothing is happening except for patching things up. Some vision and how to get there is needed, like the Dutch did with their cycling infrastructure
I'm retired and have never done overtime. Yes, at least 25 days paid vacation so that's 5 weeks off per year. If you fiddle around a bit with official holidays you can combine those with your vacation days. This year Christmas falls on Monday and Tuesday. Oh look, also the 1st of January falls on a Monday. So if I take 3 vacation days I'll get 10 days off. Yes, Americans spend their money on "stuff". We spend our money on our families, hobbies, vacations, etc. On the other hand not only we but also our close geographical competitors stop "the machine". So, a level playing field.
very good poıints. I
Thank you!
Agreed we don,t like debt,
The new American Dream: move to Europe (where everything is better).
Don’t laugh. 75,000 Americans moved to Europe last year. Most ever. 6 or 7,000 of them came to NL
@@ACwebseries I blame Not Just Bikes.
@@therealdutchidiot😂😂😂 hysterical!
@@therealdutchidiothe's Canadian..😂
@ACwebseries I watch quite a few channels about Americans that now live in the Netherlands, at least they bring something to this country, they don't create trouble, and than there are the the troublemakers from other countries that create trouble, they don't contribute nothing....
Taxes We mus pay more..The power off the collective is stronger.
Taxes must be seen as an investment , People wanting good roads and infrastucture fine but you must invest in it . and with good infrastructure and roads you can make more money as traveling times are cut safing milions in transtits. the faster you cant transport the more money you make . easy economics .
It seems americans dont see their country as a viable investment.
Americans just believe that that kind of stuff takes care of itself… Certainly they don’t have to pay for it.
@@ACwebseries The funny thing is that it really shows "the market will regulate itself" doesn't really work for people, because "the market" will only go as far as what the people will put up with.
It's easy to believe in paying taxes if one has faith in the government. I have none. None of the taxes I pay makes for a better life or better infrastructure. Most countries are hopelessly corrupt. If the Dutch have overcome this, I'm glad for them, but it hasn't happened in very many places.
Also, The NL doesn't provide what many people wrongly refer to as "free" healthcare. You have to buy private insurance. Similar, but not exactly like the U.S., but very different indeed from Canada or the UK.
Unfortunately the Dutch health insurance system is sliding down the same slippery slope as the US health care system, just in the beginning phases. Pay more, get less. But that’s a whole other topic… and video!
@johnbarthof777. It's sad te read you don't have faith in your country's government and in the spending of the taxes you have to pay. It must feel like you living in the wrong place. Many US people have the opposit feelings and move to European countries if they have the opportunity. What is your favorite country to go to if you have the opportunity?
@@lbergen001 My favorite place is to visit family in Sittard. They all want to move to the U.S. (not sure if they're serious).
@@johnbartholf777 ah, OK nice place, and Dutch!🇳🇱👍👍 Actually my daughter and son in-law emigrated from NL to the US, bc they think they have more opportunities there than in NL. US is not my favorite land btw.
@@lbergen001 A friend from Utrecht moved to the U.S. and was told by others who had done the same that for the first 6 months, maybe a year, he would absolutely hate it. Just everything about it.
After that, he'd never ever want to leave or go back to NL or live anywhere else 😂 People are certainly a peculiar species.
Hi 😊 about the taxes here, they are the highest in Europe. For example the taxes on gas and i mean energie gas, it kost about 30 cents a kube but we pay 70 cents. Those 40 cents is taxes! The same with groceries, fuel, healthcare and so on.... We see little to nothing in return of those taxes, it's going to the immigrants and Ukraine 😢 also the violence is increasing. Shootings and stabbings are a dayley thing here now. No the Netherlands is become more and more like the US unfortunately 😢
I agree on most you state. Everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. Cutting taxes is so bad for a nation, it brings America down. And yes.... the US has, for some reason, very much on some of our riggtwing politicians.
DON'T BELIEVE IN TRICKLE DOWN
Trickle down is the worst economic hoax.
"Tax morale" is not as self evident anymore. Partly because not everybody has to pay taxes equally and the Netherlands is a tax haven and has 'rulings' for corporations of which the amount is secret, but also because we've had a right wing government for 12 years now. The collective tax and social security burden, basically the difference between the cost and the income of an employee, has moved up from about 35% to 40% in those 12 years of right wing government. What we get in return for that in terms of public services has been worse than ever imagined. It has only partly crumbled yet but there are cracks everywhere. We do pay for people and corporations that are less deserving.
The sunday of rest has traditonally been very important to many kinds of Dutch protestants and there are still quite a few strict ones. They won't watch tv, don't pay for anything (making another person work on the lord's day) some even still take the rooster away from the hens. They want silence in their villages too. We tend to respect it when people feel very strongly about something and working can easily have an impact on their sunday too. The unions and the social democrats have teamed up with the protestants in the past, because they had a common interest in this.
It's not unimportant, part time supermarket jobs aren't the issue. But you can for example get the whole family, all nephews and nices all 30 of them together from all over the country on a sunday just as long as you set the date early enough. About 20 years a worked at a place where the unions had done an excellent job overall and where many of the employees were from the protestant country sides: Saturday 200% Saturday after six 225%, sunday 300%. There wasn't regular work done on sunday of course, but if it needed to be because something unplanned went on, it was easy to find people like me willing to come and work.
Wow. Very interesting. Thx for your stories. Religion is a big reason for a Sat or Sun off. In Israel, only Saturday was the day of rest. Sunday was a regular work and school day.
Great post. Just one note: The Netherlands has not had a left government since the 70's. But indeed, things got worse in the last 12-13 years due to the VVD. They are not just on the right, they are far right populist libertarians. They have caused great damage to institutions, social cohesion and trust in government and institutions, not to mention all the outright scandals.
There is BKR to prorect consumers from too much debt.
Perhaps it is economically good to borrow, spend money and then earn back. This is even the case at the level of countries (also the Netherlands, but certainly the USA). But as far as I'm concerned it remains risky because it remains a form of passing on the blame to the next generation. I suspect that the Dutch are much more of the principle of 'hand on the purse'. Don't spend until you have the money.
Spending now without having the money is good for the industry and not for the person. Typical American…
Please, lose a few 'sort of's'.... Once I started hearing them, they kept coming and coming, and I missed what you were talking about altogether :/
The “I means” and “you knows “ are worse… 😂 Workin on it!
No Dutch person loves the taxes over here 😂😂😂
No one likes to pay taxes and but at least most Dutchies value the benefits they provide.