The reason for unrelenting assault being like that, is because overpower and revenge currently share CD. I bet they added the talent, saw they accidentally impacted revenge, and said, "oh well, that doesn't bother anybody, lets stick with it"
Yeah it's pretty much this. They share CD's. If one was lowered but the other was kept the same... it would be kinda weird. Not that it matters a lot because anytime you want to be using Revenge (tanking) you don't really use Overpower, or vice versa.
This is also the WOTLK equivalent of a PvP talent. I'm pretty sure whoever was working on warrior was trying to bake some PvP changes in and this is one of the things they were allowed to tinker with. Shield Block + Revenge spam when being attacked by other melee (or hunters I believe) is really powerful in PvP. UA also clearly has PvP implications for Overpower and increases the skill cap when it comes to how you use Overpowers.
One thing that always stayed the same even to the current expansion: Warriors need gear, with gear no one comes even near to their DPS if they have BiS gear. Everyone who says warriors are not good, they never had good gear on a warrior.
who shits on warriors? lol they get the whole always dead thing bc ppl cant watch their threat but its pretty well known they are one of the top dps. especially in wrath. fury becomes a god dps and will be topping the charts. im torn between fury warrior and spellhance shaman
I love how the sweeping judgements get made about how useful classes are by basing them on top parses and ignoring that 90% of players on any class are derpy at best. Most dps classes are fine on average, because once averaged most people won't be near top parsers or be full geared anyway
Regarding the Unrelenting Assault Talent: Afaik Overpower and Revenge share CD. I assume that is why they also reduced the Revenge CD with it, so that the Overpower CD is shorter than normal even when using Revenge.
Unrelenting assault affecting Revenge helps immensely in PvP, when you have to throw a shield on and play defensive, it really helps to have more damage output so you can keep the momentum up. So throw on your shield, mash Shield Block, and spam the fuck out of Revenge. Also, Revenge damage got a huge increase in Wrath, being able to spam it against melee is real good.
Was a classic combo against rogues to force out evasion when you go sword n board and pop shield block and start spamming revenge, rogues love to pop evasion and then you go back battle with a 2h and crush them with over powers.
I mained warrior in classic without any knowledge of the game, I just only found it badass. Currently I'm still playing my warrior in tbc as a chad tank and I'll continue playing warrior in wotlk when the times comes. I don't care in what place of the damage chart I'm, warrior is the CHAD class and being the absolute pumper in vanilla classic is just a happy coincidence
Bruh this is truly decent mindset, you remind me of real vanilla, when people played what they wanted, not caring about min-maxing crap everyone loves today
Don't know if you spotted it but Tactical Mastery also increases threat gain from your key attacks (MS /BT) in Defensive Stance. Even in previous expansions I think this was the case so I always felt as a warrior that Arms was seen as the default tank/offtank spec to some degree The shared CD (as per one of the other comments) was probably the key factor though I imagine.
Enrage in the fury tree can actually be pretty useful and consistent in raid encounters with lots of aoe damage. I always take it in ICC as there are plenty of fights where you get hit
Currently in TBC Revenge and Overpower share a cool down. So I imagine it wasn't really built to improve protection the spells were just already linked.
I believe the complete rework of Deep Wounds mechanics was missed here? The fact that the DoT accumulates damage with every critical strike now opposed to just refreshing the timer that is.
Unrelenting assault with Improved Revenge (endless 4k-5k crit spams) is so overpowered that you can solo BRD and LBRS with that setup as 60. Made a video of it on my channel for those who wants to see a broken mechanic.
Unrelenting assault because arms is typically the pvp tree when you switch to Def stance for spell reflects and fighting a caster you can send spell back to them then pop the revenge if you have not had a chance to swap back to dps stance
Unrelenting Assault + Improved Revenge is actually a very strong tanking combo. Revenge has 1-sec CD, does 80% more damage, and cleaves. Make a macro with Revenge + Cleave and just crush every aoe pack. :)
@@undacuvabrotha From my own testing, weapon damage such as cleave, heroic strike, and auto-attack are pretty low on your total damage. Maybe 25% of your total damage, while revenge is 60% and thunderclap is 15%-ish) Attack power is what you want to focus on. However, Glyph of Revenge makes it so your next heroic strike is free, so a fast mainhand would get more value from that. edit: Grabbing a random axe and going axe spec to get +5% crit chance and +5% critical damage is pretty important I think
Reduced CD on revenge because you actually spend a decent amount of time in def stance with sword and board especially with a BG/duel spec. Learned that today from swifty's old videos
Arms having revenge. Arms warriors, especially when leveling in arms, should be switching stances and using all of their abilities. Also Arms Prot isn’t a huge meta thing, but it has always been fun.
Enraged regeneration, I used to macro this with last stand and berserker rage back in original wrath cause 30% with last stand is obviously more healing.
I play arms currently on Warmane. The damage is good (about on par with a feral druid) but fury is better. The advantages are a more entertaining rotation/priority system, and raid buffs. Downsides are (obviously) lower dps than fury, and a rotation that's easy to mess up and gimp your damage with.
Unrelenting Assault IS SOOOO FREAKING GOOD in PvP... you fight against a melee, pop your shield, activate shieldblock AND SPAM THE FUCK OUT REVENGE for ABSURDLY MASSIVE DMG... Revenge deals soooo much dmg... but the talent is at its BEST when facing a rogue who popped Evasion.... BYE BYE ROGUE!!!!
Yep in TBC revenge got a huge damage buff so that its actually a viable attack to be used while in D stance and not just a threat generator. So whenever in D and you cant afford to swap to battle for that sweet overpower, Revenge is your friend.
I think the biggest problem warriors have is they are just really over populated, you want 1 max 2 per 25man raid. many raids will not take any early on. So if warrior was only say 5% of the population then they would be totally fine and have nothing to worry about. However Warrior population is always much higher than that, the result is many very good warrior players struggle to find a solid raid group and are forced to gdkp.
For the deep arms revenge talent, I'm not a wrath expert but when you consider blizzard were trying to address the 'tank shortage' giving tankable classes minor buffs for tanking deep in their non protection (or relevant spec) sounds like a welcome idea tbh.
You will struggle for the early phases, really hard. But if you stick with it, get the gear, and do it all correctly, you MIGHT be 3rd place in class distribution for damage
I watched some old speedruns of Ulduar & ICC and saw only warriors in the top 5. I don't know where you got your infos from but warriors will be #1 dps with BiS gear in nearly every phase of Woltk. At the end warriors also have a higher skill cap then pressing 1 button all the time. I see so much warriors overcaping/wasting rage specially with bloodlust/heroism and of course these ppl (like atleast 50% warriors) can't get #1 dps. Im also doubting that all warriors out there really manage to get their Bloodthirst/Whirlwind on cd asap.
Speed runs with T10? that is the questions... Fury warriors will struggle up to ICC without 4 parts of the Tier and not have the full ammount of armor pen based on each phase, don't get me wrong I'm a warrior player, I'm just getting mentally preprared to listen things like: "meme class", you dont do real damage, etc... losing priority on loot for other classes... its sad, but its the true... most of the guilds will have 1 warrior DPS, and he will be Arms to buff Trauma for the Cat Druid, when ICC comes, get your T10 even if it's from 10 men raid, you will fell the power. Although our cleave damage is god dam good, on single target fights its where the problem really is. =(
@@alissonmarcelpenachio213 The same do people say since end of classic for TBC "u will do 0 dmg until you have gleves and sunwell BiS" Reality was warriors were #1 DPS shared with arcane mages since SSC/TK. Idk how ppl come to the idea that a class that scales with everything very good (crit = more flurry procs, really good scaling with str & agi & the best class for armor pen and haste usage) beeing bottom dps that does not make any sence. All focus on support but no one thinks about who needs the support at the end, your right warriors the best scaling class for hunter buff + wf.
A top tier warrior, equally geared will always do well, look at top 100 parses, and depending on the mechanics of the fight and ability of other players/you responsibilities in the raid you will see warriors (or most other classes-if there damage profile fits the boss fight) will be very good, if not dop (discounting rogues who just tunnel anyway)! Joke!!! (they sometime use tott and kick as well, if it isn’t a Dps loss) ;-)
From the get go "from ToC and onwards" - I'm sure this video will talk about everything that is great about warriors, put simply, with any research into the subject, warriors are flat out bad up until then. An optimal setup will only include 1 arms warrior in the very first phase, but even then, that's not needed as a rogue will provide the same debuff as an arms warrior as well as more damage and more utility. This is coming from an arms warrior in TBC currently. To put it bluntly, warriors are only regarded as "S" tier at the very end of the game, up until that point, you're not even close. Consider making a deathknight as you'll see 4 of those in group 1 alone.
I have one question, have you ever actually played with a decent warrior in tier 7 and 8? I've been playing WOTLK pservers for years and have seen absolutely terrible warriors, but I've also seen arms warrior as early as tier 7 that can absolutely keep up with everyone else, yes we are talking middle of the pack but if you bring a combat rogue they are going to be rock solid bottom single target to bring the same debuff. I've seen speed running comps in tier 7 that drop a warrior for a combat rogue and visa versa but ultimately this is going to be CLASSIC WOTLK, where in classic you could literally stack 25 of the lowest DPS classes in the game and still clear the content so its literally irrelevant.
You should state that even tho warriors starts to pump dps with soft/hard arp cap they conpletely suck balls during naxxramas and ulduar. What is even more bad is that while they suck dps without arp they do physical dmg so basically you cant do hodir HM with warrior dps early into 3.1. Nat a good pick for main. Certainly grest pick for TOC+
Those are split between the specs. Arms gets the mangle debuff and its classic physical damage buff, while fury gets the 5% crit. Ferals typically love arms warriors in their raid since it means they can drop mangle from their rotation and do more damage.
@@Chopstorm. this, during wrath’s original run on retail in a server first progression guild, myself and our other feral spent all of p1 convincing our prot main to switch to Arms to provide us the ability to pump it harder. Makes a massive difference once Ulduar hit and we could really stack ArP.
@@vacuuz that's exactly what I mean - you gotta have 100% armour pen before you can truly get competitive with DPS - I literally used to raid as DPS using my PvP prot spec once I had 100% armour pen and a slow ilvl 264 weapon, and I would always be in the upper half of the DPS lmao.... It's all about armour pen. Warrior DPS has always sucked early xpac and been awesome later on coz of how Rage works, but in wrath with ArP being *another* exponential damage increase, things are looking EXTREMELY bleak for Warrior DPS early wrath, but by ICC you can DPS as prot, you can make Devastate and Shield Slam hit like freight trains with 100% armour pen. *What really concerns me is the 10% damage reduction on Titan's Grip - that implemented in 3.3 to lessen Warriors scaling into absolute monsters in ICC, if that's put in the game at launch, may god have mercy on us all...*
Just cant forget the REALITY of old days... warriors are Beasts on Wrath of lich king, Tank´s have more than 60k hp on full gear, and some times can be top dps sorry, common they hit like truncks if play by pro gamers ... sorry to the other classes its the reallity
And yet outside of certain exceptional warriors they will never get selected ahead of a Bear, protadin or Blood DK. All shit on a warrior in terms of tank damage, and in dps spec you would need a lot of BiS to compete with a well played Kitty or DK.
the dual wield 2handers was the dumbest thing that ever happened to warriors. It basically became a graphic update. duel wielding normal swords could not compete. So you were forced to used 2 2h. But there was no way they would allow you to just out dps every other class. so the 2 2handers didn't provide anything other than looking cool if you liked that look. if not, then it was a waste. Surprised they didn't allow prot to use 2 shields, but ofcourse you would still take the same amount of damage as the other tank classes. woohoo. i spent a talent to look different.
You're smoking crack it gives way more stats. Sure a 10 percent nerf but even in expansions where there is single minded fury i.e retail and cata titans grip was still superior. This is coming from someone who always has been a warrior main from the start. Whirlwind does weapon damage so it will hit way harder, bloodthirst is attack power (which you will have a lot more of)
@@PNJB_R of course it hits harder. You are missing the point. it hits harder than 2 1handers. Let me give you an example. if they didn't have dual wield 2handers. They would balance the warrior so that it did the same amount of damage as other dps classes. Thats how they balance the game so that no class is played above all others. So if a rogue can do 2k dps and a deathking can do 2k dps and a palidan and enhance shaman can all do about 2k dps. Then the fury and arms warrior would both do about 2k dps also. That is balanced. Do you seriously think that they would add 2 handers to warriors and they suddenly do way more dps than other classes? it didn't happen. this isnt a debate. Blizzard discussed this at the time it happened. Yes 2 2 handers do more damage that 2 1handers, but relative to other classes. It doesn't matter. You are forced to pick that talent just to be the same. it is just a cosmetic pick. its a waste.
@@ab-zh5ml This is coming from someone who ONLY mains a Warrior (mostly fury) throughout the years and currently play a Warrior in TBC classic (level 70 preparing for WotLK) so even though I have little knowledge on other classes Warrior is my strong suit for certain. I wouldn't want a wasted talent, and I also did enjoy 1 handers. This is classic wotlk, classic was never balanced around the same damage which is why DKS were disgusting OP for most the xpac. And why paladin dps was joke until wrath. Esentially being a two button rotation. You're looking at this as if it's retail..it's not.. You're saying it's a cosmetic pack but it quite literally changes your gameplay so you're talking rubbish. You do know 2 2 handers not only hit harder, its a slower swing speed which means more rage in slower bigger chunks, therefore causing your playstyle to lean even more into less sustained, big burst phases with high dps. The 1 handers are faster meaning more sustained damage (roughly 45 percent of your dps is pure melee swings in PvE). And more sustained rage - leading to a less chunky bursty style of gameplay but instead a more sustained gameplay. (Still very bursty but less so than titans grip). You're wrong again again bro, the game isn't balanced for every class to do the same dps. The game is balanced so each class has a different utility. Fury warrior does big bursty dps and good aoe. An affliction warlock does good sustained damage but slow burst damage. A paladin has good damage and can heal themselves, in pvp it's balanced so the paladin takes more damage than a warrior for example. And they have less mobility and utility. You do know warriors were the only legit tanks for a long time. Paladin dps was laughable and never taken unless your a GM.
@@PNJB_R i suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. In this case i am pretty sure i know what i am talking about. I even recall the devs mentioning it at the time. I also recall many discussion over the years about dps balance and tank balance and healing balance. The only time dps was not intentionally tried to be kept in line was for a period when Blizz felt that dual role classes should not have the same dps as pure dps classes. The argument was that nobody would ever bring a pur dps class because a hybrid class has more to offer. So pure dps classes, ie, rogues, mages, warlocks, were designed to be able to do more dps then warriors, palidans, druids....... they called it the "hybrid tax" But within the pure dps classes, they tried to make it so that they all were capable of producing the same amount. Close. they knew they could never make them exactly the same. Over time, the "hybrid tax " philosophy was dropped and all dps were brought in line. If you look at patch notes you will see that class balance is always happeining. if one class is doing way more dps than other classes, it gets nerfed. If one is way behind the others it gets buffed. Dual wielding warriors were only allowed to use 1 hand weapons. they were balanced around all other dps classes. There is no way that giveing them 2 2handed weapons would not give them more dps. than 2 1handers and that would have put them way ahead of all other classes. It wasn't going to be allowed and it wasn't allowed. They were brought back down so they were in line with all other dps classes. which makes it nothing more than a cosmetic talent. Its common sense and i don't know why anyone would thank anything other than that. Who cares if it changes how hard they hit or if it changes the style of play. I never said it didn't. A warrior plays different than a warlock which plays different than a hunter. But at the end of the day they all are capable of putting out apporximately the same amount of dps. its like saying they are allowing mages create a dual image of itself and to dual wield staves. Then expecitng mages to outdps all other classes. not happening.
@@ab-zh5ml You've completely ignored what I've said about the rage generation and slow weapon swing times literally changing gameplay with 2 handers..it does change your gameplay. Slower weapons = less sustained bigger burst. Slow weapons means BIG chunks of rage rather than a fast 1 hander which makes less rage quickly rather than a giant chunk of rage like a 2 hander. 2 handers directly cause your playstyle to be slower at times but a giant window of burst when you hit with both two slow two handers. As I said this leads into the fury playstyle of bursty. Rage regeneration is the bread and butter of any warrior, and the weapon swing speeds directly effect rage renegeration clearly making a difference in playstyle due to rage being again the bread and butter of the class along with white melee swings. This is why fast offhand fury warrior in TBC is better single target due to smoother rage generation. With Titans grip it's not smooth it's chunky.
fury not viable on naxx is not just about arpen, arms scales from arpen too but fury also needs tons of hit rating+expertise and u not gonna get it easily on naxx ...and arms just need 8% hit and doesnt need expertise not even in pve coz when u dodge/parry u get overpower (its not bad to have some expertise as arms but u never socket it like fury does)
"you'll be a big pumper" proceeds to show videos where they are at the bottom to mid of the damage meter thousands of DPS behind the top damage. I am a diehard warrior fan, it is the class I love to play the most. However, until late TOGC, you will be behind basically every other DPS with few exceptions. It is what blizzard did with itemization. Even in Ulduar where you get your first few armor pen pieces, you will move from low, to mid range DPS. By the end of ICC when you get fully geared, you will be a top damage dealer. It is nothing like TBC, all the naysayers were wrong since day 1 about TBC. Warriors were always good you just had a bunch of people that didn't know any better spouting nonsense about warrior DPS and "not bringing any utility" Warriors do not bring anything unique to the table this go around because of homogenization. Trust me I want to play a warrior again, I did it in original Wrath (and TBC) and am currently playing one on TBCC, but I know what is about to happen to warriors and am not sugar coating it. I was telling people on the TBCC warrior videos they were wrong about warriors being bad, now I am hear telling you, T7 and T8 warriors are going to struggle and you, and your guild will be questioning why they brought you.
They are just random clips from youtube, to please the audience I could of cherrypicked moments where they are top on the DPS with all their CD's popped but I aint like that lol
@@Mark-ho6tn slogging through 6-9 months before you get all the gear to be a good DPS, is going to grind on a lot of people. People act like "oh its just for T7 and T8 content". It is that plus getting the drops to actually happen in T9 content that is going to be most of a year. Then you are an asset to your raid instead of a liability, People should have their expectations tempered. Who cares if it is "easy" your raid will want to do better and clear better. If they are ultracasual, they may actually struggle on specific hard modes in Ulduar and need the extra DPS.. If they are hardcore, they may not want to bring you at all and just have your warrior as an alt that they sometimes bring in for specific gear for later. for 2 tiers of content you are going to be a meme spec like a ret paladin or enhance shaman in vanilla/classic.
It's not. Didn't watch the vid. Smashed w/o DBW on an Alt warrior I didn't care about. Winterspring shoulders 4 piece set to match smashed 2400 ez. Only content if you're new. Rogue main. Also met an elee today in heroic arc. He couldn't ES the heal after ww on the only fight he had to interupt. Long short. Gear means nothing. Posh players are poop. We're still golden but fads, like highschool, still exist. Games good. Players bad. Long short.
@@zeorg Naxx is a joke and whether you play Arms which will do 200 dps more for a single raidtier or directly start as fury won't matter at all. In both cases you'll be at the lower end of the charts.
@@dfg12382 if u do only 200 dps less as arms than fury then u dont know play arms and its not only naxx its whole ulduar where arms is still better unless u dont know play arms - switching stances, slaming in between
@@zeorg This isn't about me. The average player doesn't know how to arms and gets barely more DPS down than a fury. In cleave fights a fury outdps arms anyways (Anub, Grobbulus, Noth, 4HM,...) A fury that knows how to take a bit of dmg for extra rage, again, outdps arms. Then again, even a proper arms player is bottom end on single target dps. Your warlocks/mages/hunters/rogs/fdks will carry you one way or the other, so as a warrior, play what you want, it doesn't even matter.
The reason for unrelenting assault being like that, is because overpower and revenge currently share CD. I bet they added the talent, saw they accidentally impacted revenge, and said, "oh well, that doesn't bother anybody, lets stick with it"
Yeah it's pretty much this. They share CD's. If one was lowered but the other was kept the same... it would be kinda weird. Not that it matters a lot because anytime you want to be using Revenge (tanking) you don't really use Overpower, or vice versa.
This is also the WOTLK equivalent of a PvP talent. I'm pretty sure whoever was working on warrior was trying to bake some PvP changes in and this is one of the things they were allowed to tinker with. Shield Block + Revenge spam when being attacked by other melee (or hunters I believe) is really powerful in PvP. UA also clearly has PvP implications for Overpower and increases the skill cap when it comes to how you use Overpowers.
and yet, now we have the unrelenting assault tank build which is totally insane because of just this talent.
First content creator not shitting on warriors love the non biased opinions for all classes and specs.
One thing that always stayed the same even to the current expansion:
Warriors need gear, with gear no one comes even near to their DPS if they have BiS gear. Everyone who says warriors are not good, they never had good gear on a warrior.
who shits on warriors? lol they get the whole always dead thing bc ppl cant watch their threat but its pretty well known they are one of the top dps. especially in wrath. fury becomes a god dps and will be topping the charts. im torn between fury warrior and spellhance shaman
I love how the sweeping judgements get made about how useful classes are by basing them on top parses and ignoring that 90% of players on any class are derpy at best. Most dps classes are fine on average, because once averaged most people won't be near top parsers or be full geared anyway
Regarding the Unrelenting Assault Talent: Afaik Overpower and Revenge share CD.
I assume that is why they also reduced the Revenge CD with it, so that the Overpower CD is shorter than normal even when using Revenge.
Unrelenting assault affecting Revenge helps immensely in PvP, when you have to throw a shield on and play defensive, it really helps to have more damage output so you can keep the momentum up. So throw on your shield, mash Shield Block, and spam the fuck out of Revenge. Also, Revenge damage got a huge increase in Wrath, being able to spam it against melee is real good.
Was a classic combo against rogues to force out evasion when you go sword n board and pop shield block and start spamming revenge, rogues love to pop evasion and then you go back battle with a 2h and crush them with over powers.
I mained warrior in classic without any knowledge of the game, I just only found it badass. Currently I'm still playing my warrior in tbc as a chad tank and I'll continue playing warrior in wotlk when the times comes. I don't care in what place of the damage chart I'm, warrior is the CHAD class and being the absolute pumper in vanilla classic is just a happy coincidence
Bruh this is truly decent mindset, you remind me of real vanilla, when people played what they wanted, not caring about min-maxing crap everyone loves today
In naxx you’ll want one dps warrior maximum. And prot warrior only gets weaker in comparison to the other tanks the further you get in tiers.
Well hopefully youre not gonna be warrior tanking in wrath XD
fury tops dps in wrath, have fun man!
@@zoshnel nobody will only take one lol. You don't play on the server first guild so don't worry about it
Don't know if you spotted it but Tactical Mastery also increases threat gain from your key attacks (MS /BT) in Defensive Stance. Even in previous expansions I think this was the case so I always felt as a warrior that Arms was seen as the default tank/offtank spec to some degree
The shared CD (as per one of the other comments) was probably the key factor though I imagine.
Revenge and Overpower share the same CD so I'm guessing that's why they reduce the CD on both and not just Overpower @10:02
In the fury tree, the big enrage change is that it's no longer is a pre-req for flurry. it's been 5 wasted points for warriors in classic/TBC.
Yes for PVE since you arent getting hit for sure...in PVP its the largest dmg increase the warrior has and likely why they nerf it in Wotlk.
It was worth of mentioning that Bladestorm can be stopped by disarm. Cheers
Lol so much for cannot be stopped
I cannot wait to see video on my beloved Shaman
Revenge is included so far down cause defensive stance will be used a alot in arena
Cannot wait to play wotlk war and mage again.
Enrage in the fury tree can actually be pretty useful and consistent in raid encounters with lots of aoe damage. I always take it in ICC as there are plenty of fights where you get hit
That may be true for pservers mate but in Classic it shouldn’t proc from aoe damage, it’s direct hits on the warrior 👍
@@Scottejaye Ill have to try it upon release of classic, but the tooltip for the talent doesnt specify direct hits.
@@Scottejaye wrong
I got denied groups so much in TBCC because I was a Fury Warrior. Even though my damage was pretty damn good, no one seemed to believe me lol
Currently in TBC Revenge and Overpower share a cool down. So I imagine it wasn't really built to improve protection the spells were just already linked.
I believe the complete rework of Deep Wounds mechanics was missed here? The fact that the DoT accumulates damage with every critical strike now opposed to just refreshing the timer that is.
i remember fury warriors being really good near the end of wrath with Armor pen and shadowmourne just gimping mofos
Unrelenting assault with Improved Revenge (endless 4k-5k crit spams) is so overpowered that you can solo BRD and LBRS with that setup as 60. Made a video of it on my channel for those who wants to see a broken mechanic.
Very good video Scotte! Thanks for the info =D
Thanks for the video, man. This helps a bunch :)
Unrelenting assault because arms is typically the pvp tree when you switch to Def stance for spell reflects and fighting a caster you can send spell back to them then pop the revenge if you have not had a chance to swap back to dps stance
So there isn’t any armor pen gear until phase 10? Not even on leather ? Something’s off i dont remember fury being bad at all.
Unrelenting Assault + Improved Revenge is actually a very strong tanking combo. Revenge has 1-sec CD, does 80% more damage, and cleaves. Make a macro with Revenge + Cleave and just crush every aoe pack. :)
shild block and revemge spam right
Yep! It’s overlooked that in WoTLK revenge gets made into an ability that hits like a truck.
@@JAlvarez1104 I could get it to crit for 12k+ with preraid gear against medium armor, so I can only imagine how much it would deal with ICC gear! :D
you think it will be a good idea to go for a low mainhand wep for tanking dungeons?
@@undacuvabrotha From my own testing, weapon damage such as cleave, heroic strike, and auto-attack are pretty low on your total damage. Maybe 25% of your total damage, while revenge is 60% and thunderclap is 15%-ish) Attack power is what you want to focus on.
However, Glyph of Revenge makes it so your next heroic strike is free, so a fast mainhand would get more value from that.
edit: Grabbing a random axe and going axe spec to get +5% crit chance and +5% critical damage is pretty important I think
It’s for pvp if your 1h and shield and in def stance you can’t exactly use overpower but revenge so makes sense.
Reduced CD on revenge because you actually spend a decent amount of time in def stance with sword and board especially with a BG/duel spec. Learned that today from swifty's old videos
Love your Content Bro, keep it up
Warrior is the bis 2vs2 arena class together with holy paladins.
I can see the gladiator spec being possible given the right gear
One thing you forgot to mention about pummel (and interrupts in general) that they are also no longer on the global cd.
The thing is, warrior threat nuts. As a warrior myself i usually w8 around 10sec for tank to build threat.
Yes and ontop of that prot warrior threat is shit. So u make threat in dps spec and domt make threat in tank :)
Love how unrelenting assault is a question here and then the beta opened and every prot warrior goes deep arms to get it for a prot revenge spec
Arms having revenge. Arms warriors, especially when leveling in arms, should be switching stances and using all of their abilities. Also Arms Prot isn’t a huge meta thing, but it has always been fun.
Doesnt disarm stop bladestorm?
Enraged regeneration, I used to macro this with last stand and berserker rage back in original wrath cause 30% with last stand is obviously more healing.
Good shout mate
All I care about is Titan's grip. Cant wait for dual 2 handers again
I never saw an army war in any raid I was in, but fury is epic.
I play arms currently on Warmane. The damage is good (about on par with a feral druid) but fury is better. The advantages are a more entertaining rotation/priority system, and raid buffs.
Downsides are (obviously) lower dps than fury, and a rotation that's easy to mess up and gimp your damage with.
Unrelenting Assault IS SOOOO FREAKING GOOD in PvP... you fight against a melee, pop your shield, activate shieldblock AND SPAM THE FUCK OUT REVENGE for ABSURDLY MASSIVE DMG... Revenge deals soooo much dmg... but the talent is at its BEST when facing a rogue who popped Evasion.... BYE BYE ROGUE!!!!
Yep in TBC revenge got a huge damage buff so that its actually a viable attack to be used while in D stance and not just a threat generator. So whenever in D and you cant afford to swap to battle for that sweet overpower, Revenge is your friend.
I think the biggest problem warriors have is they are just really over populated, you want 1 max 2 per 25man raid. many raids will not take any early on. So if warrior was only say 5% of the population then they would be totally fine and have nothing to worry about. However Warrior population is always much higher than that, the result is many very good warrior players struggle to find a solid raid group and are forced to gdkp.
For the deep arms revenge talent, I'm not a wrath expert but when you consider blizzard were trying to address the 'tank shortage' giving tankable classes minor buffs for tanking deep in their non protection (or relevant spec) sounds like a welcome idea tbh.
You will struggle for the early phases, really hard.
But if you stick with it, get the gear, and do it all correctly, you MIGHT be 3rd place in class distribution for damage
I watched some old speedruns of Ulduar & ICC and saw only warriors in the top 5. I don't know where you got your infos from but warriors will be #1 dps with BiS gear in nearly every phase of Woltk. At the end warriors also have a higher skill cap then pressing 1 button all the time. I see so much warriors overcaping/wasting rage specially with bloodlust/heroism and of course these ppl (like atleast 50% warriors) can't get #1 dps. Im also doubting that all warriors out there really manage to get their Bloodthirst/Whirlwind on cd asap.
Speed runs with T10? that is the questions... Fury warriors will struggle up to ICC without 4 parts of the Tier and not have the full ammount of armor pen based on each phase, don't get me wrong I'm a warrior player, I'm just getting mentally preprared to listen things like: "meme class", you dont do real damage, etc... losing priority on loot for other classes... its sad, but its the true... most of the guilds will have 1 warrior DPS, and he will be Arms to buff Trauma for the Cat Druid, when ICC comes, get your T10 even if it's from 10 men raid, you will fell the power. Although our cleave damage is god dam good, on single target fights its where the problem really is. =(
@@alissonmarcelpenachio213 The same do people say since end of classic for TBC "u will do 0 dmg until you have gleves and sunwell BiS"
Reality was warriors were #1 DPS shared with arcane mages since SSC/TK.
Idk how ppl come to the idea that a class that scales with everything very good (crit = more flurry procs, really good scaling with str & agi & the best class for armor pen and haste usage) beeing bottom dps that does not make any sence.
All focus on support but no one thinks about who needs the support at the end, your right warriors the best scaling class for hunter buff + wf.
A top tier warrior, equally geared will always do well, look at top 100 parses, and depending on the mechanics of the fight and ability of other players/you responsibilities in the raid you will see warriors (or most other classes-if there damage profile fits the boss fight) will be very good, if not dop (discounting rogues who just tunnel anyway)! Joke!!! (they sometime use tott and kick as well, if it isn’t a Dps loss) ;-)
does the sunder glyph trigger from devastate as well, or is it JUST sunder?
It is usable with devastate. It's the better option to glyph of devastate.
@@aaronroark4256 i dont know/remember what glyph of dev does. Just reduces the rage needed?
@@TheRealBlade_TV it applies 2 stacks of sunder armor to 1 target.
@@aaronroark4256 are they exclusive or could i use both and benefit from them?
@@TheRealBlade_TV you could use both. However, it would be very detrimental to have both.
liked your video because of your boston hat
the cd on overpower and revenge share a cd thats why it reads like that
From the get go "from ToC and onwards" - I'm sure this video will talk about everything that is great about warriors, put simply, with any research into the subject, warriors are flat out bad up until then. An optimal setup will only include 1 arms warrior in the very first phase, but even then, that's not needed as a rogue will provide the same debuff as an arms warrior as well as more damage and more utility. This is coming from an arms warrior in TBC currently. To put it bluntly, warriors are only regarded as "S" tier at the very end of the game, up until that point, you're not even close. Consider making a deathknight as you'll see 4 of those in group 1 alone.
I have one question, have you ever actually played with a decent warrior in tier 7 and 8? I've been playing WOTLK pservers for years and have seen absolutely terrible warriors, but I've also seen arms warrior as early as tier 7 that can absolutely keep up with everyone else, yes we are talking middle of the pack but if you bring a combat rogue they are going to be rock solid bottom single target to bring the same debuff. I've seen speed running comps in tier 7 that drop a warrior for a combat rogue and visa versa but ultimately this is going to be CLASSIC WOTLK, where in classic you could literally stack 25 of the lowest DPS classes in the game and still clear the content so its literally irrelevant.
You should state that even tho warriors starts to pump dps with soft/hard arp cap they conpletely suck balls during naxxramas and ulduar. What is even more bad is that while they suck dps without arp they do physical dmg so basically you cant do hodir HM with warrior dps early into 3.1. Nat a good pick for main. Certainly grest pick for TOC+
unrelenting assault=pop shild block and spam revenge vs a mele , ive blow up paladins and dk with ths in duels!
As others have said, Revenge arms talent is for pvp...pop shield block against a rogue, spam revenge, GG
Revenge is beneficial when you shield block rogues
Never gonna doubt warrior dps again. Everyone shittalked and then T5 happened. Gods again
The life cycle of a warrior. Punching bag at the start, complete animals by the end
Very nice! That shit got me
Someone please time stamp the prot section for me.
Good Job
10:00 - has no idea what it means…
People still don’t understand warrior. How is this guy more popular than me? Money 💰
3:41 not 50% but actually 60%
Best new leveling spec is? Prot!
I'm looking forward to at least one tier where I don't have to deal with 7 warriors in a raid and managing their fragile egos.
Arms warr checking in. Nobody gives a fuck about my 4% debuff now, are they also not gonna give a fuck about it in wrath and I should just go fury?
It feels weird that warriors get all the group benefits of a feral, bleed bonus and 5% crit. Not a huge fan of this homogenization of class bonuses
Those are split between the specs. Arms gets the mangle debuff and its classic physical damage buff, while fury gets the 5% crit.
Ferals typically love arms warriors in their raid since it means they can drop mangle from their rotation and do more damage.
@@Chopstorm. this, during wrath’s original run on retail in a server first progression guild, myself and our other feral spent all of p1 convincing our prot main to switch to Arms to provide us the ability to pump it harder. Makes a massive difference once Ulduar hit and we could really stack ArP.
@@Chopstorm. I see
Warriors will be good too? *(cries in Shaman)*
its OK tho ele sham is best 3v3 class
You said was it really that bad? You know that title's click bait right? Warrior DPS in LK?? You know it's top tier!
At the end. Until you hit the armour pen cap, DKs and even Rets are far better
Ya they're the best when decked out in icc BiS. You know, when you've already got the content on farm 🤷♂️
Yeah but at the start of the expansion dps sucks
@@vacuuz that's exactly what
I mean - you gotta have 100% armour pen before you can truly get competitive with DPS - I literally used to raid as DPS using my PvP prot spec once I had 100% armour pen and a slow ilvl 264 weapon, and I would always be in the upper half of the DPS lmao....
It's all about armour pen. Warrior DPS has always sucked early xpac and been awesome later on coz of how Rage works, but in wrath with ArP being *another* exponential damage increase, things are looking EXTREMELY bleak for Warrior DPS early wrath, but by ICC you can DPS as prot, you can make Devastate and Shield Slam hit like freight trains with 100% armour pen.
*What really concerns me is the 10% damage reduction on Titan's Grip - that implemented in 3.3 to lessen Warriors scaling into absolute monsters in ICC, if that's put in the game at launch, may god have mercy on us all...*
Just cant forget the REALITY of old days... warriors are Beasts on Wrath of lich king, Tank´s have more than 60k hp on full gear, and some times can be top dps sorry, common they hit like truncks if play by pro gamers ... sorry to the other classes its the reallity
And yet outside of certain exceptional warriors they will never get selected ahead of a Bear, protadin or Blood DK.
All shit on a warrior in terms of tank damage, and in dps spec you would need a lot of BiS to compete with a well played Kitty or DK.
The intro: "insane DPS" - not even in the top 16 in a 25 raid, top kek
You remind me of kyle sanderlands.
you dont provided very much information for new players but you reinforce the midmax ethos.
the dual wield 2handers was the dumbest thing that ever happened to warriors. It basically became a graphic update. duel wielding normal swords could not compete. So you were forced to used 2 2h. But there was no way they would allow you to just out dps every other class. so the 2 2handers didn't provide anything other than looking cool if you liked that look. if not, then it was a waste. Surprised they didn't allow prot to use 2 shields, but ofcourse you would still take the same amount of damage as the other tank classes. woohoo. i spent a talent to look different.
You're smoking crack it gives way more stats. Sure a 10 percent nerf but even in expansions where there is single minded fury i.e retail and cata titans grip was still superior. This is coming from someone who always has been a warrior main from the start. Whirlwind does weapon damage so it will hit way harder, bloodthirst is attack power (which you will have a lot more of)
@@PNJB_R of course it hits harder. You are missing the point. it hits harder than 2 1handers. Let me give you an example. if they didn't have dual wield 2handers. They would balance the warrior so that it did the same amount of damage as other dps classes. Thats how they balance the game so that no class is played above all others. So if a rogue can do 2k dps and a deathking can do 2k dps and a palidan and enhance shaman can all do about 2k dps. Then the fury and arms warrior would both do about 2k dps also. That is balanced. Do you seriously think that they would add 2 handers to warriors and they suddenly do way more dps than other classes? it didn't happen. this isnt a debate. Blizzard discussed this at the time it happened. Yes 2 2 handers do more damage that 2 1handers, but relative to other classes. It doesn't matter. You are forced to pick that talent just to be the same. it is just a cosmetic pick. its a waste.
@@ab-zh5ml This is coming from someone who ONLY mains a Warrior (mostly fury) throughout the years and currently play a Warrior in TBC classic (level 70 preparing for WotLK) so even though I have little knowledge on other classes Warrior is my strong suit for certain. I wouldn't want a wasted talent, and I also did enjoy 1 handers.
This is classic wotlk, classic was never balanced around the same damage which is why DKS were disgusting OP for most the xpac. And why paladin dps was joke until wrath. Esentially being a two button rotation. You're looking at this as if it's retail..it's not..
You're saying it's a cosmetic pack but it quite literally changes your gameplay so you're talking rubbish. You do know 2 2 handers not only hit harder, its a slower swing speed which means more rage in slower bigger chunks, therefore causing your playstyle to lean even more into less sustained, big burst phases with high dps. The 1 handers are faster meaning more sustained damage (roughly 45 percent of your dps is pure melee swings in PvE). And more sustained rage - leading to a less chunky bursty style of gameplay but instead a more sustained gameplay. (Still very bursty but less so than titans grip).
You're wrong again again bro, the game isn't balanced for every class to do the same dps. The game is balanced so each class has a different utility. Fury warrior does big bursty dps and good aoe. An affliction warlock does good sustained damage but slow burst damage. A paladin has good damage and can heal themselves, in pvp it's balanced so the paladin takes more damage than a warrior for example. And they have less mobility and utility. You do know warriors were the only legit tanks for a long time. Paladin dps was laughable and never taken unless your a GM.
@@PNJB_R i suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. In this case i am pretty sure i know what i am talking about. I even recall the devs mentioning it at the time. I also recall many discussion over the years about dps balance and tank balance and healing balance. The only time dps was not intentionally tried to be kept in line was for a period when Blizz felt that dual role classes should not have the same dps as pure dps classes. The argument was that nobody would ever bring a pur dps class because a hybrid class has more to offer. So pure dps classes, ie, rogues, mages, warlocks, were designed to be able to do more dps then warriors, palidans, druids....... they called it the "hybrid tax" But within the pure dps classes, they tried to make it so that they all were capable of producing the same amount. Close. they knew they could never make them exactly the same. Over time, the "hybrid tax " philosophy was dropped and all dps were brought in line. If you look at patch notes you will see that class balance is always happeining. if one class is doing way more dps than other classes, it gets nerfed. If one is way behind the others it gets buffed. Dual wielding warriors were only allowed to use 1 hand weapons. they were balanced around all other dps classes. There is no way that giveing them 2 2handed weapons would not give them more dps. than 2 1handers and that would have put them way ahead of all other classes. It wasn't going to be allowed and it wasn't allowed. They were brought back down so they were in line with all other dps classes. which makes it nothing more than a cosmetic talent. Its common sense and i don't know why anyone would thank anything other than that. Who cares if it changes how hard they hit or if it changes the style of play. I never said it didn't. A warrior plays different than a warlock which plays different than a hunter. But at the end of the day they all are capable of putting out apporximately the same amount of dps. its like saying they are allowing mages create a dual image of itself and to dual wield staves. Then expecitng mages to outdps all other classes. not happening.
@@ab-zh5ml You've completely ignored what I've said about the rage generation and slow weapon swing times literally changing gameplay with 2 handers..it does change your gameplay. Slower weapons = less sustained bigger burst. Slow weapons means BIG chunks of rage rather than a fast 1 hander which makes less rage quickly rather than a giant chunk of rage like a 2 hander. 2 handers directly cause your playstyle to be slower at times but a giant window of burst when you hit with both two slow two handers. As I said this leads into the fury playstyle of bursty. Rage regeneration is the bread and butter of any warrior, and the weapon swing speeds directly effect rage renegeration clearly making a difference in playstyle due to rage being again the bread and butter of the class along with white melee swings. This is why fast offhand fury warrior in TBC is better single target due to smoother rage generation. With Titans grip it's not smooth it's chunky.
If you like it, play it. I tried it warrior is not for me. Bottom line play what you like
Unrelenting Assault is fucking busted, dude.
fury not viable on naxx is not just about arpen, arms scales from arpen too but fury also needs tons of hit rating+expertise and u not gonna get it easily on naxx ...and arms just need 8% hit and doesnt need expertise not even in pve coz when u dodge/parry u get overpower (its not bad to have some expertise as arms but u never socket it like fury does)
Is it really bad?
Uhhh, no the best DPS in all of WOTLK isn't bad. Really.
"you'll be a big pumper" proceeds to show videos where they are at the bottom to mid of the damage meter thousands of DPS behind the top damage. I am a diehard warrior fan, it is the class I love to play the most. However, until late TOGC, you will be behind basically every other DPS with few exceptions. It is what blizzard did with itemization. Even in Ulduar where you get your first few armor pen pieces, you will move from low, to mid range DPS. By the end of ICC when you get fully geared, you will be a top damage dealer. It is nothing like TBC, all the naysayers were wrong since day 1 about TBC. Warriors were always good you just had a bunch of people that didn't know any better spouting nonsense about warrior DPS and "not bringing any utility"
Warriors do not bring anything unique to the table this go around because of homogenization.
Trust me I want to play a warrior again, I did it in original Wrath (and TBC) and am currently playing one on TBCC, but I know what is about to happen to warriors and am not sugar coating it. I was telling people on the TBCC warrior videos they were wrong about warriors being bad, now I am hear telling you, T7 and T8 warriors are going to struggle and you, and your guild will be questioning why they brought you.
They are just random clips from youtube, to please the audience I could of cherrypicked moments where they are top on the DPS with all their CD's popped but I aint like that lol
What ever. Early phase will be easy enough until you can get enough gear.
@@Mark-ho6tn slogging through 6-9 months before you get all the gear to be a good DPS, is going to grind on a lot of people. People act like "oh its just for T7 and T8 content". It is that plus getting the drops to actually happen in T9 content that is going to be most of a year. Then you are an asset to your raid instead of a liability, People should have their expectations tempered. Who cares if it is "easy" your raid will want to do better and clear better. If they are ultracasual, they may actually struggle on specific hard modes in Ulduar and need the extra DPS..
If they are hardcore, they may not want to bring you at all and just have your warrior as an alt that they sometimes bring in for specific gear for later.
for 2 tiers of content you are going to be a meme spec like a ret paladin or enhance shaman in vanilla/classic.
Why would I bring a warrior dps in early wrath tiers when there are so many better melee options.
@shane Hodges it’s not a small % fury will be behind in naxx. You’re either being disingenuous or just ignorant saying it’ll be a small amount
This topic is annoying. I haven't seen a single person anywhere say warrior is bad, just people saying that people say that warrior is bad lol.
It's not. Didn't watch the vid. Smashed w/o DBW on an Alt warrior I didn't care about. Winterspring shoulders 4 piece set to match smashed 2400 ez. Only content if you're new.
Rogue main. Also met an elee today in heroic arc. He couldn't ES the heal after ww on the only fight he had to interupt. Long short. Gear means nothing. Posh players are poop. We're still golden but fads, like highschool, still exist. Games good. Players bad. Long short.
Didn’t watch the video so have no idea what was said but commented anyway…😂😂 what has RUclips come to
They're definitely not useless I out DPS everybody as Fury in almost every group
STOP TELLING THE PEOPLE WARRIORS WILL BE GOOD! I DONT WANT LOOT COMPETITION! xddd
To much macro
“Die”ablo......
If you wanna be relevant the only spec is Fury.
Arms is a wasted raidslot. Fury, Feral and combat Rog are all S tier and replace D-Tier arms support entirely.
Ok lol 😂
wrath gonna start on naxx and fury is not even viable here so yes 1arms is the way to go and no more warrs then, and no combat rogs here but assa rogs
@@zeorg Naxx is a joke and whether you play Arms which will do 200 dps more for a single raidtier or directly start as fury won't matter at all. In both cases you'll be at the lower end of the charts.
@@dfg12382 if u do only 200 dps less as arms than fury then u dont know play arms and its not only naxx its whole ulduar where arms is still better unless u dont know play arms - switching stances, slaming in between
@@zeorg This isn't about me. The average player doesn't know how to arms and gets barely more DPS down than a fury. In cleave fights a fury outdps arms anyways (Anub, Grobbulus, Noth, 4HM,...) A fury that knows how to take a bit of dmg for extra rage, again, outdps arms. Then again, even a proper arms player is bottom end on single target dps. Your warlocks/mages/hunters/rogs/fdks will carry you one way or the other, so as a warrior, play what you want, it doesn't even matter.