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*Tarkin:* "I pity TIE pilots due to the sheer poor quality of the fighters." *Also Tarkin:* **Personally pushed for TIE Fighters to not have any deflector shields or hyperdrives.**
To be honest I feel half of the deficiencies of the empire can be simply attributed to the idea that the bad guy can neither be good nor smart. It goes against every military doctrine there for fighter forces to be considered expendable. An Air Marshal would much rather lose all his support craft but be able to maintain air superiority with fighters. Sure you can’t bomb the enemy but, they can’t bomb you. I’m sick of seeing brainless imperial tactics published in canon or legends to just make them the stupid evil bad guy. No military can swell to that size and be that frigging incompetent.
In WW2 the Zero existed. A bad guy can be smart, but bureaucracy can be cheap enough to not want to spend money upgrading their fighters and arrogant enough to believe that nobody can really challenge them (which was true for like a decade after the Empire arose).
It's probably so terrible as they have massively limited view in all TIE variants, the ships have massive targets on both sides, no hyperdrive, no life support, no shields and are made out of the metallic equivalent to paper.
So giant targets on port and starboard are worse than giant targets fore and aft (Firespray patrol ship, like Boba Fett’s slave one) or giant targets from above or below like X-wings, the millennium falcon, etc.?
Tie fighters were made to fight as groups and in mass like the russian T-34 in WW2. They took one hit and that's it......It's all about the mass, swarm tactics is the way to go when Tie's engage an X-Wing or any other ugly rebel scum ship.;-)
Hmm... Here’s where legends and canon really don’t make sense. See, cheap, disposable ships indicate cheap disposable pilots. If you’re going to so easily abandon pilots, you’re not going to train them to do much. Take off, land and how to move in the direction you want. But in Legends and canon, they’re supposed to be the top 10%. Which is ridiculous. Investing that much in a pilot only makes sense if you’re going to keep them alive as much as possible.
@Joseph Sosa So true. People also fail to grasp that the Zero, which is I think what the Tie is supposed to be , was not actually a cheap disposable fighter. It made best use of available technology and left out what was not immediately necessary because the Japanese were ever so slightly behind in terms of engine development and constructional technics, and lacked large quantities of aluminum alloys. The result was an engineering masterpiece than initially over classed it's opponents and allowed the Japanese to sweep the skies of the enemy. As the war went on , however, the Japanese were unable to significantly improve the performance of their fighter planes and gradually lost out to newer and better American designs. Going back to Star Wars.. I just watch the Original films these days. Since Disney I've largely moved to a position of regarding those films as being the only real SW. The rest was just filled until the sequels arrived , after all , and the sequels were rubbish. Anyway, if you watch the OT and only the OT , there is no real view of the Tie being a bad fighter. It's short range and lacks shielding , yes, but it's no push over and the rebel pilots clearly respect their enemy.
@Guns4 aghost that's not true I was a tanker in the us army The tank was designed to keep the crew alive in case it got hit because it cost more to train the crew then the tank Also the military designed thier equipment to break down just in case it fell into enemy hands
@Guns4 aghost The US military has entire units dedicated to the sole purpose of extracting downed pilots from enemy territory. Pilots are expensive, and knowing that there is such a premium on their lives induces them to take risks.
i think that the more star wars "lore" "canon" "legends",etc.etc. expands,the more it contradicts itself in the '90s it was written in books and comics that imperial tie pilots was an elite corps,made of selected people,not only loyal to the empire,but also highly skilled,with a high level of training,respected even by their rebel counterparts these machines sure had their flaws,but it was also said that it was a part of an effective doctrine think about it well,you have a spaceship that is basically a pure fighter plane,meant to destroy other small spaceships,you have nothing but maneuvrability and firepower,no useless stuff like hyperdrive (since you operate from bases and carriers),no missiles or torpedoes (since you're meant to attack singleseat ships) and no shield and little armor (considering that direct hits would seal your fate anyway) sure,not having a pressurized cockpit doesn't make your life comfortable,but at least the ship won't implode at the smallest hull breach all these things,or the lack of,makes the tie fighter a great "defensive fighter",since it makes it fast to be scrambled,and an excellent dogfighter thought that,i'm not saying that x-wing are worse (they are my favourite spaceship of all starwars),however they have different missions and they are so designed properly what i want to say,is that in the last years,especially from 2010s,the star wars franchise is starting to cripple,becoming more and more disfunctional if something like the starfighter corps was so bad,why there would be even some many people applying to become pilots?if both machines and pilots are terrible,why in movies like rogue one we see both sides fighting basically even?why videogames online battles are not one sided?why we even see the ace of resistance enthusiastic of putting his hands inside of these "flying coffins"?do you have any idea of how much is expensive to form a pilot,at least in real life?
In 2021, let's get beyond kiddie playground ideas such as "canon" and "lore" and start thinking seriously about stories. Not these stories, of course, but better, smarter ones.
Ties were definitely hazardous to your health, but to those that excelled in this style of combat, they could be terrifying, look at Baron Soontir Fel and the 181 in legends, these ace pilots were lethal. Though I suppose they were the exception, not the rule.
I feel like your comfort level is directly proportional to your value to the imperial war machine. TIE pilots were likely one of the view real meritocracies in the Empire. If you were shit you probably didn’t last long. If you were good/great you survived and advanced.
TIE development wasn't stagnant as the video suggests. The classic TIE was being phased out by the faster, quad barrelled TIE Interceptor by the time of ESB. By the time of ROTJ, the TIE Advanced was under limited production, the TIE Interceptors were being equipped with basic shield generators and the TIE Defender was in the prototype stage. The TIE Defender was a masterpiece superiority craft which did everything better than the Rebel equivalent (Faster than an A-Wing, tougher and better armed than an X-Wing).
That tie pilot in star wars squadron was so lucky to live and not only that amde it back to his ship. Also yeah I can see that people would be bored on their planets.
So where do this guy get his info? I mean if it is books, then I will accept it. But this sounds like the way tie fighters were depicted in the movies. This looks like pure speculation.
Tie Fighter for PC was one my favorite games as a kid. It gave the Empire a face and character you could relate to. I love these videos Lore Guy, and I am a subscriber... but at 1:59 you mention the TIE series were produced by KDY when actually they are manufactured by Sienar Fleet Systems. KDY produces the ISDs and other capital variants. I recall seeing it a lot in the Tie Fighter briefings and weapons loadout screen :P If any star wars fan here hasn't played the old X-Wing/Tie Fighter series I suggest you try it. If you can. (These tend to be buggy and you need a joystick even with the Gog release). But I can't wait to jump into an interceptor again with SW: Squadrons.
I, too, loved those X-Wing/TIE Fighter games. Played them religiously in high school in the 90s. Along w/ all the Lucas Arts WWII air combat games (1942, Battle of Britain, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe). Problem today is that those games don't recognize modern USB-based joysticks. If I have the time, I'd love to jump a generation or two and get into the latest Star Wars flight simulators.
1) Imperial pilots had some of the best training in the galaxy, which isn’t cheap. They were not fodder. 2) TIEs had some of the best engineered parts and minimal moving pieces, making them relatively tough in terms of hull strength 3) The suit saves the pilot from explosive decompression and gives the pilot an opportunity to be rescued. 4) In the event of a recovery, an empire win means recovery asserts may pick you up. A rebel win means they may take you prisoner. 5) The lack of hyperdrive was not an issue for how TIEs were employed with capital ships. Not every ship could, nor should, be multi-role. 6) The design simplicity facilitated both a low cost for mass production and low mass for superior handling and acceleration. 7) Shields are consistently inconsistent, even with capital ships. But that’s more of a Star Wars problem. 8) The rebel plot armor is thick. Rogue One confirmed that the will of the force plays a significant role in outcomes.
There's also the Shadow Droid starfighter in Legends, where if you're a dead TIE fighter ace they lobotomized your brain and put it in a cybernetic starfighter body to be used against the Empire's enemies.
@@snipingflute4346 It was featured in the Star Wars comic book: Dark Empire volume 2. The horrifying thing about those cybernetic starfighters is the human brains can only communicate in binary codes and are rumored to be powered by the dark side of the Force. For more information check out Eckhartsladder's video on Five Starfighters you don't want to pilot.
@@davidsun3511 i remember reading that they are kept alive via cybernetics and given a very limited ability to use the dark side so probably Palpatine can control them and possibly for some sort of precognition.
Being an imperial in any form seemed dangerous. If you didn’t die in a war, it would be against a dangerous creature, accident, or by one of your superiors.
No shields all guts. BUT as far as i remember: The TIE series was produced by SIENAR Fleet Systems, not KDY. KDY was the producer of imperial capital ships like the ISDs.
Helmet Sommer, you are correct. I was going to say that. KDY had nothing to do with TIEs. It was Sienar Fleet Systems and then later (during the reign of the First Order) it was Sienar-Jaemus.
Probably more than were picked up by the Empire. It's referenced in Legends that roughly 30-40% of Rebel pilots were deserting Imperial Pilots, and the shoddy craftsmanship of the TIE Fighter is likely the reason they defected in some form or another. Especially if you were clever enough to pack an SOS Signaler, you're likely to be found by *someone* after a battle dies down.
@@DarthSears Yeah, I remember seeing something like that from an old Legends comic. I can't remember if it was Wedge Antillies or some other pilot, but two rebel pilots were on some scouting mission and there was a long scene about their discussion over soup. Between that and talking about what womp rats tasted like, one of the pilots mentioned their reason for defection being how the X-Wing handled over the TIE fighter, much to the ridicule from their partner.
I think it's quite easy to forget that most Imperial pilots would probably never have to face down anything more serious than the odd pirate or smuggler. A the end of the day the TIE fighter was designed to be as cheap and easy to manufacture as possible. The whole reason that the Empire turned down the X-Wing design was due to the cost of each fighter. When you look at things from the POV of the Empire during the early stages of the Rebellion the TIE fighter makes sense. The Rebels are few in number and use hit and fade tactics; as ships can't be tracked in hyperspace the Empire is forced to defend everywhere which demands a lot of snub fighters and the TIE fighter is easily more capable than the older Y-Wing and Z-95 designs. The real turning point is introduction of the X-Wing which is a much more capable machine than anything the Rebels had up to that point and with the B-Wing and A-Wing designs the original TIE fighter was at a real disadvantage. Obviously the Empire invested in more advanced designs like the Interceptor and Defender but they'd run into the same problems that they'd faced with the X-Wing. More expensive fighters that have to protect Imperial ships and installations across the Empire while the Rebels are free to pick and choose their battles.
The Old Republic had hyperspace tracking capabilities prior to the Clone Wars (Obi-Wan tracked Jango Fett to Geonosis from Kamino). The Empire had hyperspace tracking capabilities as early as A New Hope (Darth Vader tracked Princess Leia's consular vessel from Scarif to Tatooine instead of trying to catch her over Alderaan, and later planted a beacon aboard the Millennium Falcon).
The TIE Fighters (and their Pilots) could be compared to the WWII Mitsubishi AM6 (Zero). It too had no armor and the early models were covered in canvas. However it could out maneuver and out climb any other fighter of its time until very late in the war and the pilots had to have HUGE sacks to go up against later developed superior aircraft. Being an actual US Navy Vet in Aviation (Air Warfare Specialist) one of the things I am disappointed with Imperial Navy Flight Tactics is that they do not even indicate that they use them at all which is surprising since ALL Air Forces develop attack and defensive tactics and strategies. The Imperial Navy would have the same resources, such as veteran pilots and Aces. With their superior numbers compared as to Rebel Squadron resources they should have "owned the skies" making any Rebel flight assault impossible regardless of the TIE's lack of shields or torpedoes. In real life areal combat speed and maneuverability is life. In many of the game sims though actual space conditions are not utilized the fighters (of both side) do not need to make sweeping turns as would be needed in an atmosphere. A pilot would simply spin his craft around without changing speed or direction and fire on the craft behind or to the side of him/her as g-forces are not applicable.
I don't expect people in Hollywood/ Disney (same deference) to get anything about the military right, especially concerning the tactics of any branch even a fictional one. Most of these people have never served or don't know anybody that does and I suspect to save on cost, they wouldn't hire an actual vet with knowledge on the subject either at least in this day and age, sure maybe 15 to 20 years ago they would, but today? Nah not now.
Yeah, or accidentally rematerialising in solid rock, because someone thought I would be a good idea to equip your ship with an experimental cloacking device.
Imagine in a hundred years, and near systems where battles were it's just common to see floating tie fighters, corpses still inside orbiting a moon or something
The tarkin doctrine imposed that the ships and craft like the Star destroyer and the TIE fighter would be in a certain shape to scare their opponents, no matter what the tactical disadvantage would be. The Empire works off fear, after all.
Who's watching this now and looking back to the trailer for squadrons, and how the TIE actually survived multiple shots, and was flying with two holes in it! And the Empire came back for the pilot. That was such a badass moment, for the Empire!
When I was an imperial pilot, there were no toilets in the cabin. I once got extreme diarrhea flying over Naboo. When I returned to the fleet, my flight suit looked like it was stuffed with flat tires.
In Legends, there used to be a policy of institutional Darwinism in the Imperial Navy among its fighter pilots. Basically, you graduate flight school and spend a one year tour of duty flying the basic TIE fighter. If you survived your initial tour you would be assessed and based on your skills, be assigned to a more specialized TIE like a bomber or interceptor. Survive your second tour, you were assessed again and moved on to something like a Gunboat or TIE Avenger. Survive your third tour and you got moved up to the elite ships like the TIE Defender and Scimitar Assault Bomber. In this way, only the very best of the best pilots flew the best of the best ships, because they were the only ones left alive by then.
If you were one of the lucky/skilled few to survive up the ranks to become an Ace then life was pretty sweet for you since on top of better everything, you also got to pilot ships that gave you a better chance of survival. In the early days that was the Gunboat which...though essentially the Empire's version of the Y-wing...had shields, torps/missiles and a hyperdrive in case things got dicey. Later on you got the Tie Advance/Avenger which was a massive step up on even Rebel ship.
I was addicted to the TIE Fighter computer game back in the day. The take away from that was that the basic TIE fighter really only excelled at swarm attacks. If pilots survived long enough to get promoted, they would be given the opportunity to take on special assignments flying the TIE variants (like the Advanced or Defender), which do have shields and hyperdrive capabilities, as well as more powerful armaments. In the game, if your TIE was destroyed, you would eject automatically and be rescued (some missions actually involved you protecting rescue shuttles and stranded pilots from enemy attack).
seems to me going around after a battle and rescuing pilots of damaged TIE fighters would be a good source of pilots for the rebellion. "they left you. we didn't. we can drop you off or you can work for us."
If my TIE fighter was damaged there would be no floating through space for me waiting to die. I'm opening the door and just getting sucked out into space quick death in under 10 seconds
As a 501st TIE-Pilot myself, our motto is „No shields, all guts!“ Rebel pilots often call us coffin jockeys,. But, only because they fear us, and know we fear nothing!
More like the Japanese Army’s Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa, actually. At least the Zero had 20 mm cannons in the wings giving it heavy firepower. The Ki-43 didn’t even have that, just a pair of machine guns in the nose.
Tim Smith Zero had way more numbers produced in comparison to the KI-43 just like how the TIE was mass produced and if I’m right TIE’s are equipped with missiles as well. Also the zero was for the IJN air service just like how the TIE is for the Imperial Navy
Zeroes were one of the most advanced fighters in the world at the start of the war. However, they rapidly became obsolete as the U.S. built aircraft with better armor, weapons and range as the war in the Pacific ramped up. Many U.S. Navy fighters during that time period were specifically designed to counter Zeroes. The problem was that it was easier for the Japanese to build Zeroes than it was to train men to fly them effectively. By 1945 it was more time and cost-effective to use them as suicide bombers than actual fighters.
ManiaMac1613 : Before WW2, the Japanese Navy training course for fighter pilots was the longest, hardest and most rigorous in the world. Only 5% of candidates were able to pass the course. This made the Japanese Navy fighter pilots the best pilots in the world. The drawbacks were, the course provided very low numbers of qualified pilots compared to other countries. This meant, the Japanese Navy really struggled to replace combat losses once the war started. When they ran chronically short of qualified pilots in late 1943, they had to change their training program to produce very large numbers of pilots very quickly - a very short and very easy training course. This meant Japanese Navy new pilot quality went from being the best in the world to being the worst in the world. Graduates could barely even fly their Zero, let alone shoot down anything in it. Making them useless for anything except the Kamikaze program.
That's where the Tie defender came in it had shields and superior fire power, but they decided that super weapons were more important than their navy, Palpatine was an idiot..
1:32 made me wonder why Ralph Fiennes has never been cast as an Imperial officer - not a comms officer, but someone high-ranking - in a Star Wars movie. He'd be perfect.
@James Gravil According to Canon, Stormtrooper armor disperses the energy of a blaster bolt over a wide body area, so the trooper gets knocked out but survives to fight another time in the most instances.
I love tie pilots cuz they who survived were ace they learned to become apex pilots. And then after reaching so many kills they were offered more advanced ties. But a true ace learned not to relay on tech Soontia fel one of the best and I love the interceptor
The process of joining the Imperial Flying corps was a long and arduous one, and the detailed pilot training usually lasted for two and half years, meaning they were treated as valuable asset, not as cheap cannon fodder. As a result of such harsh training, all the Imperial pilots were being able to operate several types of flying platforms. Approximately 10 percent of cadets managed to graduate the entire course, while the majority ended up being assigned to the various "lesser branches" of the Imperial Navy, and thus became artillerymen, patrol troopers, system and equipment maintainers, signalmen, military logistic personnel, et cetera. As for the rescuing protocols, Imperial Navy formations usually picked their wrecked pilots after the battles (if they were at the winning side, off course), because that way they've compensated the instant losses, and were being able to throw the remaining fighter/bomber personnel in the further circulation. Keep in mind that the Navy combat units were being replaced, reinforced or reequipped only at some stages of campaigns, or even after these whole operations had ended in a series of successive clashes (of different frequency and intensity), making the rescuer parties a logical necessity all the time. Rescuer procedures were usually coordinated by the Imperial Flight Officers. On the other hand, if you got bogged in a damaged basic type TIE fighter or TIE bomber (while your Imperial Navy fleet ended up at the loosing side), you had even more potential solutions - you could always perform the instant kamikaze effort of ramming the closest opponent and thus perish like a real hero, you could kill yourself with your blaster pistol, try landing at the closest colonial planet (Captain Varko Grey, commanding pilot of the Titan Squadron in Star Wars: Squadrons had taken such action), or you could even send the distress signals and thus hope of being picked as a prisoner of the Rebel Alliance. Some of the Imperial pilots switched their sides that way, though it hadn't happened at the regular basis. There were even some cases of the Imperial pilots that affiliated with the Rebel Alliance, only to desert their forces as well or run away from captivity at the very first chance. These renegades later joined the ranks of pirates, mercenaries, private armies of some magnates, or even the bounty hunters. Switching identity was the key action in such occasions. You should also remember that all Imperial pilots got their basic infantry and survival training, and such additional skills made them useful multi-tasking servicemen/servicewomen in extraordinary situations. Besides, some advanced TIE fighter versions (for example TIE Advanced/x1, TIE/D Defender and TIE/ph phantom) had been equipped with the various hyperdrive engines, making them able to reach the nearest Imperial Relay Outposts if their pilots survived the enemy onslaught. Mostly all TIE fighter and TIE bomber lines got the ejector seats, useful option of saving pilots in the course of sky battles - during the period of the First Galactic Empire and the New Republic sky and space battles were being fought in 1:3 ratio.
The TIE fighter was based on the Japanese "Zero" fighter, and shared many of the weaknesses. While incredibly agile and maneuverable, that required a skilled pilot to be able to take advantage of those traits, and the total lack of armor (or, on the TIE, shields) meant that one slip or one lucky enemy shot would be fatal. The predecessor to the TIE, the Eta-2 Actis interceptor, was able to largely get away with this - they were mostly piloted by Jedi, who could rely on the Force to predict enemy shots and exploit their movements with the Eta-2's mobility advantage, and who were already crucially important to pick up if they became incapacitated (hence the lack of hyperdrive). But after the Empire killed all the Jedi, the Eta-2 was replaced with something cheaper to make in bulk and given to pilots that couldn't make use of it with Jedi talents. When normal people were thrown in the cockpit, they couldn't afford to make a single mistake; an ace would eventually slip just from fatigue or stress or bad luck, while a newbie didn't even have a chance to learn what they were doing. Rebel ships like X-wings had shields, greater armor, and always tried to rescue their pilots; a newbie in an X-wing cockpit could survive making a mistake if they didn't get vaped outright, and could take a few close misses or light hits without just exploding, while an ace might not be able to match a TIE's speed but could take just a few more hits before their wingman came in to save the day. As to why command didn't take note of this...well, numerically speaking, the TIE was superior to the X-wing. Faster, more agile, good firepower, strength in numbers, and all for relatively little money. Seriously, very little money - a standard TIE was less than half the price of a T-65 X-wing, didn't require proton torpedo reloads, didn't need an astromech, didn't have added life support costs, and so on. Bureaucracy went with the lowest bidder and superiority on paper, and nobody was willing to stick their necks out far enough to tell a superior officer "the ships may be superior on paper but they suck ass without expert pilots."
They keep saying rebel ships had an advantage with their shielding, but in all the movies, x-wings and y-wings get destroyed after one or two hits. What’s the deal, man?
No life support and full space suite also means the pilot is able to leave the cockpit and perform minor repairs. Cheap builds commonly equal simple designs thereby increasing the chance of being able to perform a good enough repair to limp to an atmospheric environment or at least broadcast a distress call. This is why the multi tool was the number one birthday present every Imperial pilot wanted (the second being a good supply of adult diapers).
It was Sienar fleet systems that made the Ties though, Kuat drive yards made the capital ships and cygnus did the shuttles and the assault gunboat (hence the similairities between those two ship designs) . Just a minor detail of correcton on an awesome video. Keep it up 👍 !
the only real weakness in your argument would be the expense and time needed to train an Imperial Pilot. Even if there were a lot of people asking to fly it does not mean you would have the talents and ability to fly else they would just use drones which I imagine would be even easier to produce no food, sleep, quarters, or salaries needed. losing too many pilots would be a problem
Have you thought of the scenario where Maul is the leader of the Confederacy of Independent Systems? How will Maul lead the Separatists in the Clones Wars against the Republic? And will he eventually betray Sidious or not?
The TIE Defender was way too expensive to replace the myriads of TIE Fighters. That’s why the Empire went for the TIE Interceptor instead. I think the ideal balance would have been a TIE Interceptor with shields half the strength of the X-wing’s, and a TIE Bomber with shields half the strength of the Y-wing’s, while maintaining the same speed and agility for each. That would have probably required only a 25% increase in the total starfighter budget, at most, and would probably reduce losses by 250%. The greatest weakness of the unshielded TIE Fighter was that even a stray shot from one of its own squadron could destroy it. Even relatively weak shields would dramatically reduce that risk.
Palpatines massive ego and lust for intimidation. Only such a bent megalomaniac would invest in something as massive overkill as the Death Star....and then invest in a SECOND one after the first gets blown up by a handful of fighter craft 🤨 As smart and conniving as Palpatine was...he was truly his own worst enemy
Tie fighters have some advanced computer systems such as navigation and accurate targeting computers, Rebel ships require astromech droids to guide Rebel pilots, Tie fighters can also be modified
Great video and I agree with pretty much everything you said. I agree that they were built to be destroyed but I do feel they may have been worth fixing if it wasn't a major repair.
You pick your battles and learn long-range marksmanship in a TIE Standard. Making allies in command and taking with you 'friends' that serve as wingmen also helps. You advance in rank with these allies and that gets you access to better ships like a Starwing or hopefully the rare TIE Defender. Having a bit of the Force on your side is also very handy. Just a touch . . . not enough to attract Hands, Inquisitors, or Vader . . . unless the Dark Lord takes a shine to you. But then you might be ordered to cover him and get blown out of the sky by a Smuggler in a rust bucket.
Sienar actually created the Imperial TIE Fighters and other Imperial TIE Variants,KDY was the manufacturer of the ISD's and other class of Star Destroyers
From the sounds of it a modern jet which would probably be considered primitive tech in Star Wars could take down a tie fighter with ease due to how the empire where cheap skates in their production.
Sienar Fleet Systems is a rival of Kuat Drive Yards. They would hate the fact that Kuat is producing the signature TIE series. Other than that this was a good video.
I think another thing that needs to be brought up is that the empire had to buy supply and maintain all this equipment across the Galaxy one part of the Star wars lore was that tie fighters not only being cheap where nearly maintenance free supposedly the laser cannons and the engines were probably the most efficient designs ever created in the starwars universe Look at how small they were on the models and that they had nearly the same fire power as most starfighters built back then also the TIE interceptor was supposed to become the new backbone of the imperial Navy it just didn't happen before they were defeated that fighter was more maneuverable and faster than almost anything else out there and it could carry some limited amounts of torpedoes still didn't have shields though Also through the movies it didn't seem the X-Wing Shields really did much anyway
Imperial Pilots are very brave. As for the TIE Fighter...there is a reason that TIE Defenders, TIE Advance and TIE Interceptors were better. Still though....tough sledding. Also great job putting that awesome anime in with the view of the TIE's.
Grand Admiral Thrawn was smart enough to put shields and hyperdrive on TIE Defenders. It's a shame they never saw much service due to their high price tag and the expert level training required.
I know Rebel fighters are said to have shields in dialogue and in the lore, but they don't really take much more punishment than a TIE on screen. I think Luke & Wedge survive being shot (and considering Wedge's engine was damaged, he wouldn't have lasted any longer had they tried to pursue him) and that's it. All the rest are blown up just as easily as a TIE.
Wait...if mortality rates for a tie fighter pilot was high, that must mean the craft was very easy to fly (little training necessary) and a vast supply of candidates was available. In war, the problem usually isn't availability of equipment but rather men if death tolls get too high. It takes two weeks to build an aircraft but 18 years to "build" a new pilot.
This was pretty interesting. We don't really think much about what the lives of those who fought for the Empire was like. The TIE fighters always stood out to me as a kid, too.
My own head cannon is that the TIE was knowingly bad and that's part of why it was accepted. Before the rebellion really got going Palpatine's Empire needed casualties in a small but constant stream to keep it united and to get the people back home entrenched in the Empire ideology as more and more people go "My son/daughter/mom/dad died for the Empire, I'm not gonna stand by and let it fall/ let you dishonor his memory" and the constant casualties justify the military spending "your son could have lived if only we had a bigger budget". With TIE's around even smugglers and pirates could blow up one or two before being subdued. The same is also part of the reason for the Star Destroyers needing such large crews, to get a lot of people involved with the Empire's military machine and also to involve as many ppl into their atrocities "Sure your captain ordered the planetary bombardment but you were on the ship and did nothing".
even in works of goofy fiction like Star Wars, there's no way the scale of economy can be so massive that its cheaper to let a trained pilot die in a garbage aircraft and replace them than to make some effort to reacquire those kinds of assets. Like, even the Soviet Union valued skilled personnel and the protection thereof.
I love how it seems like anybody and their brother or sister can fly spaceships. Like its no big deal, yet it's hundreds of times more complicated than a small aircraft that we have now. And you have to go through a decent amount training to fly even a small private plane.
TIE Fighters did not "pale in comparison" to the X-wing. 1. They were faster and way more maneuverable, meaning in a one-on-one skirmish if the TIE got behind the X-wing than the X-wing is basically screwed. 2. They did have warhead launchers, but most of the time they did not use it as attacking larger targets was not the purpose of these ships. They used them when they were outnumbered, as they could launch missiles at X-wings from far distances. 3. They had very potent weaponry with an excellent rate of fire. And we see TIEs often one-shotting X-wings too.
The TIE fighter was like the Mitsubishi Zero fighter. Nimble, fast, lethal - but no armor, no self-sealing gas tanks, so if they took a hit that a Hellcat might survive, they caught fire, or the pilot died.
When you think back to movies, whenever a TIE hits an X or Y Wing, they just explode anyway, right? So I guess fighters were more or less equal, but Rebels had superior pilots.
Combat pilots have to live with most of these things ever since the WW I. Don't listen to anybody's recruitment speech. Aircraft have always been extremely vulnerable to the weapons the other guys aim at them. Besides that, no military organisation can afford to have their soldiers believe that they are just cannon fodder, even if that actually may be true. The loss of faith amd morale will have worse consequences than the enemies' worst weapons. And even if there is no lack of material and volunteers, the pilots you have right now have a great advantage that might also justify to rescue them: They are trained and ready right now, not in a year (or however long it takes to train a new pilot), plus a certain time of practical experience.
The TIE is an excellent spacecraft. Despite less guns, it fires more shots per minute than the Xwing (source: I slowed down the OT and watched frame by frame to see who shot more shots. X-wings fire 2 shots per frame when they were gunning, TIEs shot a max of 6). It's faster and more maneuverable than an Xwing (capable of hovering and strafing side to side). Shields at best stop one or two shots. With most fighters firing rapidly, they are not that big of an advantage. Look at Endor and Yavin, Rebel fighters get wrecked in a few shots all the time. No life support: not an issue as your suit has life support. That means, no matter how damaged your ship, as long as you aren't hit you're still gonna breathe. You don't need to worry about your windshield being cracked or hull being breached. No hyperdrive: fits imperial doctrine quite well. The Rebels need hyperdrives for their hit and run operations, as fighters are their main strike craft. The Empire used fighters to screen their capital ships and provide local defense, driving off enemy fighters. TIEs are excellent at this. My theory for why the Xwing pilots tend to dominate is as follows: The Rebels have a lot less pilots, and a lot more targets. As such, the average Rebel pilot likely flies many more missions a lot more often than the average TIE pilot, who spends most his career seeing little to no action. As a result, the average Xwing pilots is likely more experienced in combat than the average Imperial.
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Ah man love your content
Hey Lore Guy! I love your content! One tip though, the 'p' and 's' in 'corps' is silent; it's pronounced like 'core'. :)
Kuat Drive Yards made the Star Destroyer, Sienar Fleet Systems made all the TIE series.
What the hell is an xthing?
You basically described the current military recruitment vs reality trope. (Trope is the wrong word but I wasn't confident spelling shtick)
*Tarkin:* "I pity TIE pilots due to the sheer poor quality of the fighters."
*Also Tarkin:* **Personally pushed for TIE Fighters to not have any deflector shields or hyperdrives.**
Well pitying them doesn't mean they aren't effective. It's a very Tarkin move
This is why Thrawn was the goat with the tie defender.
I've been fascinated with Tie Fighter Pilots since I was 5 years old in 1981, so thanks for this video!
Agreed although I saw the original trilogy in thee 2000s since I was born in the 90s
I was born in the early 2000
Listen up here kiddos 4 score and 70 years ago I’m old as shit.
Me too I was born in 81 but yeah me to
@@helpiamstuckonthismanshead3385 Sucks to be you.
To be honest I feel half of the deficiencies of the empire can be simply attributed to the idea that the bad guy can neither be good nor smart. It goes against every military doctrine there for fighter forces to be considered expendable. An Air Marshal would much rather lose all his support craft but be able to maintain air superiority with fighters. Sure you can’t bomb the enemy but, they can’t bomb you. I’m sick of seeing brainless imperial tactics published in canon or legends to just make them the stupid evil bad guy. No military can swell to that size and be that frigging incompetent.
I know right! No way it’s not just because movies need to exist and make people money, real world logic must be put in all fiction at all time!
I agree. If they had that many dummies the empire would have be defeated long ago.
Why I abandoned the franchise.
And the "It's fiction bro" argument is retarded, Trek has competent enemy states just fine. Try harder.
@@PHAToregonremember that star Wars IS for 12 years old teenagers like Lucas said
In WW2 the Zero existed. A bad guy can be smart, but bureaucracy can be cheap enough to not want to spend money upgrading their fighters and arrogant enough to believe that nobody can really challenge them (which was true for like a decade after the Empire arose).
High speed, no shields, no armor, no live support, no hyperdrive - git gud or die
Also don't be sped.
It's probably so terrible as they have massively limited view in all TIE variants, the ships have massive targets on both sides, no hyperdrive, no life support, no shields and are made out of the metallic equivalent to paper.
"the metallic equivalent to paper." Aluminum foil?
Durapaper armor. LOL
So giant targets on port and starboard are worse than giant targets fore and aft (Firespray patrol ship, like Boba Fett’s slave one) or giant targets from above or below like X-wings, the millennium falcon, etc.?
Tie fighters were made to fight as groups and in mass like the russian T-34 in WW2. They took one hit and that's it......It's all about the mass, swarm tactics is the way to go when Tie's engage an X-Wing or any other ugly rebel scum ship.;-)
@RedneckSpaceMan The Japanese A6M Zero was made of magnesium (which is also that flamable metal used in flares!!).
Hmm...
Here’s where legends and canon really don’t make sense.
See, cheap, disposable ships indicate cheap disposable pilots. If you’re going to so easily abandon pilots, you’re not going to train them to do much. Take off, land and how to move in the direction you want. But in Legends and canon, they’re supposed to be the top 10%. Which is ridiculous. Investing that much in a pilot only makes sense if you’re going to keep them alive as much as possible.
@Joseph Sosa So true. People also fail to grasp that the Zero, which is I think what the Tie is supposed to be , was not actually a cheap disposable fighter. It made best use of available technology and left out what was not immediately necessary because the Japanese were ever so slightly behind in terms of engine development and constructional technics, and lacked large quantities of aluminum alloys. The result was an engineering masterpiece than initially over classed it's opponents and allowed the Japanese to sweep the skies of the enemy. As the war went on , however, the Japanese were unable to significantly improve the performance of their fighter planes and gradually lost out to newer and better American designs.
Going back to Star Wars.. I just watch the Original films these days. Since Disney I've largely moved to a position of regarding those films as being the only real SW. The rest was just filled until the sequels arrived , after all , and the sequels were rubbish. Anyway, if you watch the OT and only the OT , there is no real view of the Tie being a bad fighter. It's short range and lacks shielding , yes, but it's no push over and the rebel pilots clearly respect their enemy.
@Darth Bane legends described this situation so much better than Disney
The Imperial Japanese Navy would have considered your argument invalid
@Guns4 aghost that's not true
I was a tanker in the us army
The tank was designed to keep the crew alive in case it got hit because it cost more to train the crew then the tank
Also the military designed thier equipment to break down just in case it fell into enemy hands
@Guns4 aghost The US military has entire units dedicated to the sole purpose of extracting downed pilots from enemy territory. Pilots are expensive, and knowing that there is such a premium on their lives induces them to take risks.
i think that the more star wars "lore" "canon" "legends",etc.etc. expands,the more it contradicts itself
in the '90s it was written in books and comics that imperial tie pilots was an elite corps,made of selected people,not only loyal to the empire,but also highly skilled,with a high level of training,respected even by their rebel counterparts
these machines sure had their flaws,but it was also said that it was a part of an effective doctrine
think about it well,you have a spaceship that is basically a pure fighter plane,meant to destroy other small spaceships,you have nothing but maneuvrability and firepower,no useless stuff like hyperdrive (since you operate from bases and carriers),no missiles or torpedoes (since you're meant to attack singleseat ships) and no shield and little armor (considering that direct hits would seal your fate anyway)
sure,not having a pressurized cockpit doesn't make your life comfortable,but at least the ship won't implode at the smallest hull breach
all these things,or the lack of,makes the tie fighter a great "defensive fighter",since it makes it fast to be scrambled,and an excellent dogfighter
thought that,i'm not saying that x-wing are worse (they are my favourite spaceship of all starwars),however they have different missions and they are so designed properly
what i want to say,is that in the last years,especially from 2010s,the star wars franchise is starting to cripple,becoming more and more disfunctional
if something like the starfighter corps was so bad,why there would be even some many people applying to become pilots?if both machines and pilots are terrible,why in movies like rogue one we see both sides fighting basically even?why videogames online battles are not one sided?why we even see the ace of resistance enthusiastic of putting his hands inside of these "flying coffins"?do you have any idea of how much is expensive to form a pilot,at least in real life?
you know you’re supposed to put a space after the comma, right?
@@creamofthecrop4339 Veryfunnycomingfromsomeonecalledcreamofthecrop!
Good points
In 2021, let's get beyond kiddie playground ideas such as "canon" and "lore" and start thinking seriously about stories. Not these stories, of course, but better, smarter ones.
@@LostSpringBand you know you're supposed to put a space after each word, right?
Ties were definitely hazardous to your health, but to those that excelled in this style of combat, they could be terrifying, look at Baron Soontir Fel and the 181 in legends, these ace pilots were lethal. Though I suppose they were the exception, not the rule.
Just like in real life, only 83 aces in the British Empire during the great war had more than 20 victories
@@KaoruSF and half of all losses were from training.
I feel like your comfort level is directly proportional to your value to the imperial war machine. TIE pilots were likely one of the view real meritocracies in the Empire. If you were shit you probably didn’t last long. If you were good/great you survived and advanced.
TIE development wasn't stagnant as the video suggests. The classic TIE was being phased out by the faster, quad barrelled TIE Interceptor by the time of ESB. By the time of ROTJ, the TIE Advanced was under limited production, the TIE Interceptors were being equipped with basic shield generators and the TIE Defender was in the prototype stage. The TIE Defender was a masterpiece superiority craft which did everything better than the Rebel equivalent (Faster than an A-Wing, tougher and better armed than an X-Wing).
There's a ton of experienced Tie pilots. This whole video is based on wrongful questimates.
The original tie is my favorite fighter. I wish the lore didn't turn it into a disposable garbage badguy ship.
The lore didn't. The fandom did. The fandom acts like it never watched a star wars movie.
Imagine a movie where you follow an Empire tie-fighter pilot. Would probably be cool.
i can see the appeal of joining the empire just to escape a relative dead end future on a remote planet.
That tie pilot in star wars squadron was so lucky to live and not only that amde it back to his ship. Also yeah I can see that people would be bored on their planets.
5:52 seconds of utter rebel propaganda.
@James Bissett oh I have that one too, being a bomber pilot sure is fun😁
@James Bissett yeah
@James Bissett oh, I didn't get to read that one yet
-Laughts in Life Support System-
So where do this guy get his info? I mean if it is books, then I will accept it. But this sounds like the way tie fighters were depicted in the movies. This looks like pure speculation.
Tie Fighter for PC was one my favorite games as a kid. It gave the Empire a face and character you could relate to. I love these videos Lore Guy, and I am a subscriber... but at 1:59 you mention the TIE series were produced by KDY when actually they are manufactured by Sienar Fleet Systems. KDY produces the ISDs and other capital variants. I recall seeing it a lot in the Tie Fighter briefings and weapons loadout screen :P If any star wars fan here hasn't played the old X-Wing/Tie Fighter series I suggest you try it. If you can. (These tend to be buggy and you need a joystick even with the Gog release). But I can't wait to jump into an interceptor again with SW: Squadrons.
I, too, loved those X-Wing/TIE Fighter games. Played them religiously in high school in the 90s. Along w/ all the Lucas Arts WWII air combat games (1942, Battle of Britain, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe). Problem today is that those games don't recognize modern USB-based joysticks. If I have the time, I'd love to jump a generation or two and get into the latest Star Wars flight simulators.
1) Imperial pilots had some of the best training in the galaxy, which isn’t cheap. They were not fodder.
2) TIEs had some of the best engineered parts and minimal moving pieces, making them relatively tough in terms of hull strength
3) The suit saves the pilot from explosive decompression and gives the pilot an opportunity to be rescued.
4) In the event of a recovery, an empire win means recovery asserts may pick you up. A rebel win means they may take you prisoner.
5) The lack of hyperdrive was not an issue for how TIEs were employed with capital ships. Not every ship could, nor should, be multi-role.
6) The design simplicity facilitated both a low cost for mass production and low mass for superior handling and acceleration.
7) Shields are consistently inconsistent, even with capital ships. But that’s more of a Star Wars problem.
8) The rebel plot armor is thick. Rogue One confirmed that the will of the force plays a significant role in outcomes.
There's also the Shadow Droid starfighter in Legends, where if you're a dead TIE fighter ace they lobotomized your brain and put it in a cybernetic starfighter body to be used against the Empire's enemies.
Never heard of that before. Cool!
Robocop meets Battlestar Galactica (reboot) Cylon Raider, eh? Grim 💀
@@snipingflute4346 It was featured in the Star Wars comic book: Dark Empire volume 2. The horrifying thing about those cybernetic starfighters is the human brains can only communicate in binary codes and are rumored to be powered by the dark side of the Force. For more information check out Eckhartsladder's video on Five Starfighters you don't want to pilot.
@@davidsun3511 i remember reading that they are kept alive via cybernetics and given a very limited ability to use the dark side so probably Palpatine can control them and possibly for some sort of precognition.
@@ucitymetalhead Yeah, they were only seen deployed when Palpatine was in or near his flagship, or by his elite dark side Jedis like Executor Sedriss.
Being an imperial in any form seemed dangerous. If you didn’t die in a war, it would be against a dangerous creature, accident, or by one of your superiors.
Like Vader just getting mad huh 😂😂
No shields all guts. BUT as far as i remember: The TIE series was produced by SIENAR Fleet Systems, not KDY. KDY was the producer of imperial capital ships like the ISDs.
I was thinking the same thing
Helmet Sommer, you are correct. I was going to say that. KDY had nothing to do with TIEs. It was Sienar Fleet Systems and then later (during the reign of the First Order) it was Sienar-Jaemus.
I have to wonder how many Tie Pilots were picked up by the rebel alliance?
Probably more than were picked up by the Empire. It's referenced in Legends that roughly 30-40% of Rebel pilots were deserting Imperial Pilots, and the shoddy craftsmanship of the TIE Fighter is likely the reason they defected in some form or another.
Especially if you were clever enough to pack an SOS Signaler, you're likely to be found by *someone* after a battle dies down.
That why I shoot down traitors
Same question appeared in my head, after i watched this video.
I'll give my pilots a mercy killing if their fighters are damage. If I not too busy in a Dog Fight
@@DarthSears Yeah, I remember seeing something like that from an old Legends comic. I can't remember if it was Wedge Antillies or some other pilot, but two rebel pilots were on some scouting mission and there was a long scene about their discussion over soup. Between that and talking about what womp rats tasted like, one of the pilots mentioned their reason for defection being how the X-Wing handled over the TIE fighter, much to the ridicule from their partner.
I feel like it's worth mentioning that I got an Air Force recruitment ad on this video
Space Force would have been even better!
I think it's quite easy to forget that most Imperial pilots would probably never have to face down anything more serious than the odd pirate or smuggler. A the end of the day the TIE fighter was designed to be as cheap and easy to manufacture as possible. The whole reason that the Empire turned down the X-Wing design was due to the cost of each fighter. When you look at things from the POV of the Empire during the early stages of the Rebellion the TIE fighter makes sense. The Rebels are few in number and use hit and fade tactics; as ships can't be tracked in hyperspace the Empire is forced to defend everywhere which demands a lot of snub fighters and the TIE fighter is easily more capable than the older Y-Wing and Z-95 designs.
The real turning point is introduction of the X-Wing which is a much more capable machine than anything the Rebels had up to that point and with the B-Wing and A-Wing designs the original TIE fighter was at a real disadvantage. Obviously the Empire invested in more advanced designs like the Interceptor and Defender but they'd run into the same problems that they'd faced with the X-Wing. More expensive fighters that have to protect Imperial ships and installations across the Empire while the Rebels are free to pick and choose their battles.
The Old Republic had hyperspace tracking capabilities prior to the Clone Wars (Obi-Wan tracked Jango Fett to Geonosis from Kamino).
The Empire had hyperspace tracking capabilities as early as A New Hope (Darth Vader tracked Princess Leia's consular vessel from Scarif to Tatooine instead of trying to catch her over Alderaan, and later planted a beacon aboard the Millennium Falcon).
The TIE Fighters (and their Pilots) could be compared to the WWII Mitsubishi AM6 (Zero). It too had no armor and the early models were covered in canvas. However it could out maneuver and out climb any other fighter of its time until very late in the war and the pilots had to have HUGE sacks to go up against later developed superior aircraft. Being an actual US Navy Vet in Aviation (Air Warfare Specialist) one of the things I am disappointed with Imperial Navy Flight Tactics is that they do not even indicate that they use them at all which is surprising since ALL Air Forces develop attack and defensive tactics and strategies. The Imperial Navy would have the same resources, such as veteran pilots and Aces. With their superior numbers compared as to Rebel Squadron resources they should have "owned the skies" making any Rebel flight assault impossible regardless of the TIE's lack of shields or torpedoes. In real life areal combat speed and maneuverability is life. In many of the game sims though actual space conditions are not utilized the fighters (of both side) do not need to make sweeping turns as would be needed in an atmosphere. A pilot would simply spin his craft around without changing speed or direction and fire on the craft behind or to the side of him/her as g-forces are not applicable.
Thrust gravity is real. The Expanse gets this right. As did the new BSG. And B5 to an extent...
I don't expect people in Hollywood/ Disney (same deference) to get anything about the military right, especially concerning the tactics of any branch even a fictional one. Most of these people have never served or don't know anybody that does and I suspect to save on cost, they wouldn't hire an actual vet with knowledge on the subject either at least in this day and age, sure maybe 15 to 20 years ago they would, but today? Nah not now.
Geez, I’d rather be assigned to an oberth-class....at least exploding is a quicker death 🤣
Yeah, or accidentally rematerialising in solid rock, because someone thought I would be a good idea to equip your ship with an experimental cloacking device.
@@slighter Nothing like waking up with an asteroid where your ass used to be
Imagine in a hundred years, and near systems where battles were it's just common to see floating tie fighters, corpses still inside orbiting a moon or something
There is a 99% chance that you will die. Seriously why are tie fighters so weak?
No shields
The tarkin doctrine imposed that the ships and craft like the Star destroyer and the TIE fighter would be in a certain shape to scare their opponents, no matter what the tactical disadvantage would be. The Empire works off fear, after all.
@@ancientragerv2561 #blamepalpandtarkin
Because you put all your money and effort into the death stars
Well you're was well built.
Who's watching this now and looking back to the trailer for squadrons, and how the TIE actually survived multiple shots, and was flying with two holes in it! And the Empire came back for the pilot. That was such a badass moment, for the Empire!
Real life comparison to TIE and X-Wing. Is the Zero and the wildcat.
More like a Zero to a Hellcat or Corsair due to how much better than the TIE the X-Wing is.
The Z-95 was more like the Wildcat.
@@moblinmajorgeneral More like the Brewster Bufallo.
More like zero and the Hellcat.
tie fighter vs Z-95 is Zero vs Wildcat
There was one RUclipsr who compared the X-Wing to the Supermarine Spitfire. I forgot who it was though...
You'd think they would have stuck with droids.
When I was an imperial pilot, there were no toilets in the cabin. I once got extreme diarrhea flying over Naboo. When I returned to the fleet, my flight suit looked like it was stuffed with flat tires.
lol
In Legends, there used to be a policy of institutional Darwinism in the Imperial Navy among its fighter pilots. Basically, you graduate flight school and spend a one year tour of duty flying the basic TIE fighter. If you survived your initial tour you would be assessed and based on your skills, be assigned to a more specialized TIE like a bomber or interceptor. Survive your second tour, you were assessed again and moved on to something like a Gunboat or TIE Avenger. Survive your third tour and you got moved up to the elite ships like the TIE Defender and Scimitar Assault Bomber. In this way, only the very best of the best pilots flew the best of the best ships, because they were the only ones left alive by then.
Is it me or does the Empire suffer from budget cuts on a constant basis?
They divert too much towards super weapons.
Yep... The first Death Star got destroyed... But screw it, let's just build another one. It'll be fine!
@@Darth_Cornpop Another bigger one, the first in a proposed fleet
If you were one of the lucky/skilled few to survive up the ranks to become an Ace then life was pretty sweet for you since on top of better everything, you also got to pilot ships that gave you a better chance of survival. In the early days that was the Gunboat which...though essentially the Empire's version of the Y-wing...had shields, torps/missiles and a hyperdrive in case things got dicey.
Later on you got the Tie Advance/Avenger which was a massive step up on even Rebel ship.
No wonder there were so many deserters/defectors to the Rebels from the TIE pilots.
When it’s slow death in a metal ball and floating in the infinite void vs someone giving enough of a fuck to pick you up it’s not a hard sell
I was addicted to the TIE Fighter computer game back in the day. The take away from that was that the basic TIE fighter really only excelled at swarm attacks. If pilots survived long enough to get promoted, they would be given the opportunity to take on special assignments flying the TIE variants (like the Advanced or Defender), which do have shields and hyperdrive capabilities, as well as more powerful armaments. In the game, if your TIE was destroyed, you would eject automatically and be rescued (some missions actually involved you protecting rescue shuttles and stranded pilots from enemy attack).
TIE: "Fast, maneuverable, expendable"
WW2 Aviation Buff: "Hey, I've seen this one before!"
"TIE Interceptor, ready for battle."
seems to me going around after a battle and rescuing pilots of damaged TIE fighters would be a good source of pilots for the rebellion. "they left you. we didn't. we can drop you off or you can work for us."
It seems like in "A New Hope" Tie fighters and pilots could hold their own but after there was a big drop off.
If my TIE fighter was damaged there would be no floating through space for me waiting to die. I'm opening the door and just getting sucked out into space quick death in under 10 seconds
Yhea that’s why they’re called coffin junkies
As a 501st TIE-Pilot myself, our motto is „No shields, all guts!“ Rebel pilots often call us coffin jockeys,. But, only because they fear us, and know we fear nothing!
Yeah, but I hear they have sick sound systems to listen to Techno Union Wub Wubs.
Tie Fighters: The Japanese Zero of space
Pretty much
More like the Japanese Army’s Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa, actually.
At least the Zero had 20 mm cannons in the wings giving it heavy firepower. The Ki-43 didn’t even have that, just a pair of machine guns in the nose.
Tim Smith Zero had way more numbers produced in comparison to the KI-43 just like how the TIE was mass produced and if I’m right TIE’s are equipped with missiles as well. Also the zero was for the IJN air service just like how the TIE is for the Imperial Navy
Zeroes were one of the most advanced fighters in the world at the start of the war. However, they rapidly became obsolete as the U.S. built aircraft with better armor, weapons and range as the war in the Pacific ramped up. Many U.S. Navy fighters during that time period were specifically designed to counter Zeroes. The problem was that it was easier for the Japanese to build Zeroes than it was to train men to fly them effectively. By 1945 it was more time and cost-effective to use them as suicide bombers than actual fighters.
ManiaMac1613 : Before WW2, the Japanese Navy training course for fighter pilots was the longest, hardest and most rigorous in the world. Only 5% of candidates were able to pass the course. This made the Japanese Navy fighter pilots the best pilots in the world.
The drawbacks were, the course provided very low numbers of qualified pilots compared to other countries. This meant, the Japanese Navy really struggled to replace combat losses once the war started. When they ran chronically short of qualified pilots in late 1943, they had to change their training program to produce very large numbers of pilots very quickly - a very short and very easy training course. This meant Japanese Navy new pilot quality went from being the best in the world to being the worst in the world. Graduates could barely even fly their Zero, let alone shoot down anything in it. Making them useless for anything except the Kamikaze program.
That's where the Tie defender came in it had shields and superior fire power, but they decided that super weapons were more important than their navy, Palpatine was an idiot..
1:32 made me wonder why Ralph Fiennes has never been cast as an Imperial officer - not a comms officer, but someone high-ranking - in a Star Wars movie. He'd be perfect.
Wouldn't want to be a TIE fighter pilot being a stormtroopers is safer
@James Gravil According to Canon, Stormtrooper armor disperses the energy of a blaster bolt over a wide body area, so the trooper gets knocked out but survives to fight another time in the most instances.
I love tie pilots cuz they who survived were ace they learned to become apex pilots. And then after reaching so many kills they were offered more advanced ties. But a true ace learned not to relay on tech Soontia fel one of the best and I love the interceptor
The process of joining the Imperial Flying corps was a long and arduous one, and the detailed pilot training usually lasted for two and half years, meaning they were treated as valuable asset, not as cheap cannon fodder. As a result of such harsh training, all the Imperial pilots were being able to operate several types of flying platforms. Approximately 10 percent of cadets managed to graduate the entire course, while the majority ended up being assigned to the various "lesser branches" of the Imperial Navy, and thus became artillerymen, patrol troopers, system and equipment maintainers, signalmen, military logistic personnel, et cetera. As for the rescuing protocols, Imperial Navy formations usually picked their wrecked pilots after the battles (if they were at the winning side, off course), because that way they've compensated the instant losses, and were being able to throw the remaining fighter/bomber personnel in the further circulation. Keep in mind that the Navy combat units were being replaced, reinforced or reequipped only at some stages of campaigns, or even after these whole operations had ended in a series of successive clashes (of different frequency and intensity), making the rescuer parties a logical necessity all the time. Rescuer procedures were usually coordinated by the Imperial Flight Officers. On the other hand, if you got bogged in a damaged basic type TIE fighter or TIE bomber (while your Imperial Navy fleet ended up at the loosing side), you had even more potential solutions - you could always perform the instant kamikaze effort of ramming the closest opponent and thus perish like a real hero, you could kill yourself with your blaster pistol, try landing at the closest colonial planet (Captain Varko Grey, commanding pilot of the Titan Squadron in Star Wars: Squadrons had taken such action), or you could even send the distress signals and thus hope of being picked as a prisoner of the Rebel Alliance. Some of the Imperial pilots switched their sides that way, though it hadn't happened at the regular basis. There were even some cases of the Imperial pilots that affiliated with the Rebel Alliance, only to desert their forces as well or run away from captivity at the very first chance. These renegades later joined the ranks of pirates, mercenaries, private armies of some magnates, or even the bounty hunters. Switching identity was the key action in such occasions. You should also remember that all Imperial pilots got their basic infantry and survival training, and such additional skills made them useful multi-tasking servicemen/servicewomen in extraordinary situations. Besides, some advanced TIE fighter versions (for example TIE Advanced/x1, TIE/D Defender and TIE/ph phantom) had been equipped with the various hyperdrive engines, making them able to reach the nearest Imperial Relay Outposts if their pilots survived the enemy onslaught. Mostly all TIE fighter and TIE bomber lines got the ejector seats, useful option of saving pilots in the course of sky battles - during the period of the First Galactic Empire and the New Republic sky and space battles were being fought in 1:3 ratio.
The TIE fighter was based on the Japanese "Zero" fighter, and shared many of the weaknesses. While incredibly agile and maneuverable, that required a skilled pilot to be able to take advantage of those traits, and the total lack of armor (or, on the TIE, shields) meant that one slip or one lucky enemy shot would be fatal. The predecessor to the TIE, the Eta-2 Actis interceptor, was able to largely get away with this - they were mostly piloted by Jedi, who could rely on the Force to predict enemy shots and exploit their movements with the Eta-2's mobility advantage, and who were already crucially important to pick up if they became incapacitated (hence the lack of hyperdrive). But after the Empire killed all the Jedi, the Eta-2 was replaced with something cheaper to make in bulk and given to pilots that couldn't make use of it with Jedi talents. When normal people were thrown in the cockpit, they couldn't afford to make a single mistake; an ace would eventually slip just from fatigue or stress or bad luck, while a newbie didn't even have a chance to learn what they were doing. Rebel ships like X-wings had shields, greater armor, and always tried to rescue their pilots; a newbie in an X-wing cockpit could survive making a mistake if they didn't get vaped outright, and could take a few close misses or light hits without just exploding, while an ace might not be able to match a TIE's speed but could take just a few more hits before their wingman came in to save the day.
As to why command didn't take note of this...well, numerically speaking, the TIE was superior to the X-wing. Faster, more agile, good firepower, strength in numbers, and all for relatively little money. Seriously, very little money - a standard TIE was less than half the price of a T-65 X-wing, didn't require proton torpedo reloads, didn't need an astromech, didn't have added life support costs, and so on. Bureaucracy went with the lowest bidder and superiority on paper, and nobody was willing to stick their necks out far enough to tell a superior officer "the ships may be superior on paper but they suck ass without expert pilots."
They keep saying rebel ships had an advantage with their shielding, but in all the movies, x-wings and y-wings get destroyed after one or two hits. What’s the deal, man?
It’s all BS made by young nerds that can’t think. None of this is cannon or lore.
No life support and full space suite also means the pilot is able to leave the cockpit and perform minor repairs. Cheap builds commonly equal simple designs thereby increasing the chance of being able to perform a good enough repair to limp to an atmospheric environment or at least broadcast a distress call. This is why the multi tool was the number one birthday present every Imperial pilot wanted (the second being a good supply of adult diapers).
It was Sienar fleet systems that made the Ties though, Kuat drive yards made the capital ships and cygnus did the shuttles and the assault gunboat (hence the similairities between those two ship designs) . Just a minor detail of correcton on an awesome video. Keep it up 👍 !
I equate a tie to ww2 Japanese plane the zero.. massively agile but one hit and done.
Yeah, Lucas even said he copied almost all of the space battles scene for scene from old WW2 footage. Spitfires vs Zeros basically.
There pilot suits are sooooo cool and rad lookin that panel on these chest is epic!!
the only real weakness in your argument would be the expense and time needed to train an Imperial Pilot. Even if there were a lot of people asking to fly it does not mean you would have the talents and ability to fly else they would just use drones which I imagine would be even easier to produce no food, sleep, quarters, or salaries needed. losing too many pilots would be a problem
Shoutout to the First Order for improving their Tie designs to be more than pure cannon fodder.
It makes it worse when you're fighting against a bloody space wizard
Takes longer to train a pilot than to built a ship. Best chance of survival as a pilot is serving under Admiral Thrawn.
They do have some awesome uniforms !
Have you thought of the scenario where Maul is the leader of the Confederacy of Independent Systems? How will Maul lead the Separatists in the Clones Wars against the Republic? And will he eventually betray Sidious or not?
You've never played TIE Fighter, have you?
Here's a related idea for a rethink: What if the Empire had chosen the TIE Defender program over the Death Star?
They might actually have won
The TIE Defender was way too expensive to replace the myriads of TIE Fighters. That’s why the Empire went for the TIE Interceptor instead.
I think the ideal balance would have been a TIE Interceptor with shields half the strength of the X-wing’s, and a TIE Bomber with shields half the strength of the Y-wing’s, while maintaining the same speed and agility for each. That would have probably required only a 25% increase in the total starfighter budget, at most, and would probably reduce losses by 250%.
The greatest weakness of the unshielded TIE Fighter was that even a stray shot from one of its own squadron could destroy it. Even relatively weak shields would dramatically reduce that risk.
Palpatines massive ego and lust for intimidation. Only such a bent megalomaniac would invest in something as massive overkill as the Death Star....and then invest in a SECOND one after the first gets blown up by a handful of fighter craft 🤨
As smart and conniving as Palpatine was...he was truly his own worst enemy
" THAT THING WASN'T EVEN PAID OFF YET! Do you have *any* idea what this is going to do to my credit?!"
Empire or First Order...recruit me now!!
Kilo - Ren
In the grim darkness of the far future
You will not be missed
Tie fighters have some advanced computer systems such as navigation and accurate targeting computers, Rebel ships require astromech droids to guide Rebel pilots, Tie fighters can also be modified
What's the game looping in the background? Looks fun! Interesting video by the way! ♥
Great video and I agree with pretty much everything you said. I agree that they were built to be destroyed but I do feel they may have been worth fixing if it wasn't a major repair.
You pick your battles and learn long-range marksmanship in a TIE Standard. Making allies in command and taking with you 'friends' that serve as wingmen also helps. You advance in rank with these allies and that gets you access to better ships like a Starwing or hopefully the rare TIE Defender. Having a bit of the Force on your side is also very handy. Just a touch . . . not enough to attract Hands, Inquisitors, or Vader . . . unless the Dark Lord takes a shine to you. But then you might be ordered to cover him and get blown out of the sky by a Smuggler in a rust bucket.
Sienar actually created the Imperial TIE Fighters and other Imperial TIE Variants,KDY was the manufacturer of the ISD's and other class of Star Destroyers
From the sounds of it a modern jet which would probably be considered primitive tech in Star Wars could take down a tie fighter with ease due to how the empire where cheap skates in their production.
Modern jet fighters are pretty much superior to ANY Star Wars fighter.
Sienar Fleet Systems is a rival of Kuat Drive Yards. They would hate the fact that Kuat is producing the signature TIE series. Other than that this was a good video.
I think another thing that needs to be brought up is that the empire had to buy supply and maintain all this equipment across the Galaxy one part of the Star wars lore was that tie fighters not only being cheap where nearly maintenance free supposedly the laser cannons and the engines were probably the most efficient designs ever created in the starwars universe
Look at how small they were on the models and that they had nearly the same fire power as most starfighters built back then
also the TIE interceptor was supposed to become the new backbone of the imperial Navy it just didn't happen before they were defeated that fighter was more maneuverable and faster than almost anything else out there and it could carry some limited amounts of torpedoes still didn't have shields though
Also through the movies it didn't seem the X-Wing Shields really did much anyway
Imperial Pilots are very brave. As for the TIE Fighter...there is a reason that TIE Defenders, TIE Advance and TIE Interceptors were better. Still though....tough sledding. Also great job putting that awesome anime in with the view of the TIE's.
when I was a kid i think being a lmperial pilot is cool
Play some Tie Fighter the CD-ROM GoG version. Live the nostalgic dream again.
Grand Admiral Thrawn was smart enough to put shields and hyperdrive on TIE Defenders. It's a shame they never saw much service due to their high price tag and the expert level training required.
Tie fighter pilots have laser pistols.... So I don't think they would die a slow and painful death if they have the guts to do it themselves
Imagine if you were stranded like that and you happen to come across a drifting Starweird. 😱 That’s would be very bad luck.
I know Rebel fighters are said to have shields in dialogue and in the lore, but they don't really take much more punishment than a TIE on screen. I think Luke & Wedge survive being shot (and considering Wedge's engine was damaged, he wouldn't have lasted any longer had they tried to pursue him) and that's it. All the rest are blown up just as easily as a TIE.
Wait...if mortality rates for a tie fighter pilot was high, that must mean the craft was very easy to fly (little training necessary) and a vast supply of candidates was available.
In war, the problem usually isn't availability of equipment but rather men if death tolls get too high. It takes two weeks to build an aircraft but 18 years to "build" a new pilot.
Almost 6 minutes of content...... give this guy a platinum youtube plaque stat!
TIE Fighters have an ejection system and the Empire does have an equivalent to SAR, as seen in the TIE Fighter video game and some comics.
Wait til squadron when will get the closter phobic feeling of a tight space and only a frontal view with no sight to check your rear
In the grim darkness of the Imperial Navy your life is Boredom and a short painful career.
The Siener Fleet Systems Twin Ion Engine Fighter was the most advanced fighter when it first came out.
This was pretty interesting. We don't really think much about what the lives of those who fought for the Empire was like. The TIE fighters always stood out to me as a kid, too.
My own head cannon is that the TIE was knowingly bad and that's part of why it was accepted. Before the rebellion really got going Palpatine's Empire needed casualties in a small but constant stream to keep it united and to get the people back home entrenched in the Empire ideology as more and more people go "My son/daughter/mom/dad died for the Empire, I'm not gonna stand by and let it fall/ let you dishonor his memory" and the constant casualties justify the military spending "your son could have lived if only we had a bigger budget". With TIE's around even smugglers and pirates could blow up one or two before being subdued.
The same is also part of the reason for the Star Destroyers needing such large crews, to get a lot of people involved with the Empire's military machine and also to involve as many ppl into their atrocities "Sure your captain ordered the planetary bombardment but you were on the ship and did nothing".
Let's have a moment of silence for the three TIE pilots from Andor who thought they could just watch the eye in peace
even in works of goofy fiction like Star Wars, there's no way the scale of economy can be so massive that its cheaper to let a trained pilot die in a garbage aircraft and replace them than to make some effort to reacquire those kinds of assets. Like, even the Soviet Union valued skilled personnel and the protection thereof.
I love how it seems like anybody and their brother or sister can fly spaceships. Like its no big deal, yet it's hundreds of times more complicated than a small aircraft that we have now. And you have to go through a decent amount training to fly even a small private plane.
Repeat after me. It's. A. Movie
@@drunksquirrel2051 I don't think you understand our nerd ways if you think this is just a movie.
@@drunksquirrel2051 You're watching a lore video about star wars and you're telling people it's a movie in the comments... Alrighty..
"Quantity has a quality of its own." -Lenin
A quality of its own tjat matters not, if the quality is too shabby.
*that
He said that in an entirely different context lmao
TIE Fighters did not "pale in comparison" to the X-wing.
1. They were faster and way more maneuverable, meaning in a one-on-one skirmish if the TIE got behind the X-wing than the X-wing is basically screwed.
2. They did have warhead launchers, but most of the time they did not use it as attacking larger targets was not the purpose of these ships. They used them when they were outnumbered, as they could launch missiles at X-wings from far distances.
3. They had very potent weaponry with an excellent rate of fire. And we see TIEs often one-shotting X-wings too.
Rebel pilot recruiting should be high flying around picking up stranded TIE pilots....
I see they've adopted the Stalin tactic of throwing people at the enemy until you win
The TIE fighter was like the Mitsubishi Zero fighter. Nimble, fast, lethal - but no armor, no self-sealing gas tanks, so if they took a hit that a Hellcat might survive, they caught fire, or the pilot died.
The huge problem with the tie fighters had no shields which means they could be shot down easily.
When you think back to movies, whenever a TIE hits an X or Y Wing, they just explode anyway, right? So I guess fighters were more or less equal, but Rebels had superior pilots.
Two days rations sounds pretty good till you consider the fact that to eat those rations you have to remove the pressurized helmet keeping you alive.
Or they had pureed food tubes that attach to the helmet like U2 pilots in the real world.
so why have rations at all in that case, have yer lunch before or after u get back?
Combat pilots have to live with most of these things ever since the WW I. Don't listen to anybody's recruitment speech. Aircraft have always been extremely vulnerable to the weapons the other guys aim at them. Besides that, no military organisation can afford to have their soldiers believe that they are just cannon fodder, even if that actually may be true. The loss of faith amd morale will have worse consequences than the enemies' worst weapons. And even if there is no lack of material and volunteers, the pilots you have right now have a great advantage that might also justify to rescue them: They are trained and ready right now, not in a year (or however long it takes to train a new pilot), plus a certain time of practical experience.
Twi'leks and Togrutas seem like very nice and friendly people. Their women are attractive.
Star Wars Journey... Tom Cruise look-a-like, Top Gun, X-Wing Piolets, Pearl Harbor Attack, I can see that!!!
The TIE is an excellent spacecraft.
Despite less guns, it fires more shots per minute than the Xwing (source: I slowed down the OT and watched frame by frame to see who shot more shots. X-wings fire 2 shots per frame when they were gunning, TIEs shot a max of 6).
It's faster and more maneuverable than an Xwing (capable of hovering and strafing side to side).
Shields at best stop one or two shots. With most fighters firing rapidly, they are not that big of an advantage. Look at Endor and Yavin, Rebel fighters get wrecked in a few shots all the time.
No life support: not an issue as your suit has life support. That means, no matter how damaged your ship, as long as you aren't hit you're still gonna breathe. You don't need to worry about your windshield being cracked or hull being breached.
No hyperdrive: fits imperial doctrine quite well. The Rebels need hyperdrives for their hit and run operations, as fighters are their main strike craft. The Empire used fighters to screen their capital ships and provide local defense, driving off enemy fighters. TIEs are excellent at this.
My theory for why the Xwing pilots tend to dominate is as follows: The Rebels have a lot less pilots, and a lot more targets. As such, the average Rebel pilot likely flies many more missions a lot more often than the average TIE pilot, who spends most his career seeing little to no action. As a result, the average Xwing pilots is likely more experienced in combat than the average Imperial.