Chained Echoes: Battle and Progression System 101 | Backlog Battle

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  • Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024

Комментарии • 165

  • @diegodru
    @diegodru Год назад +75

    I'm 7 hours into this game and I am having a blast. Honestly, it's been years since I played a turn-based RPG that good. The systems are so well thought, nothing is useless or boring.
    Really a must-play game.

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +2

      Glad you think so! Here’s to more fun times ahead!

    • @user-ql4xz6sz6z
      @user-ql4xz6sz6z Год назад +1

      True. I couldn’t even afford to get bored because of the Overdrive system. I have to constantly think about not going into Overheat. And being able to switch party members during combat made me use my brain much more than conventional turn-based RPGs

  • @AnaatthiGozo
    @AnaatthiGozo Год назад +110

    Your Ultra Move bar actually automatically fills up at the start of a boss battle, no grind needed for that preparation

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +19

      Thanks! Somehow didn’t notice that! Probably because I grinded before the bosses lol

    • @cleverlikem3218
      @cleverlikem3218 Год назад +2

      i just got into a fight after using towards the end of a fight and it was not filled up

    • @ChicCanyon
      @ChicCanyon Год назад +3

      @cleverlikem3218 its only for boss fights that it auto fills. Standard trash mobs it carries from wherever it was from the last battle

    • @jeremyjoyner9796
      @jeremyjoyner9796 Год назад +3

      @@cleverlikem3218 during the first boss after the prologue it gives you a tutorial that explains you will have a full gauge for your ultra move at the start of every boss

    • @bobrudolph5161
      @bobrudolph5161 Год назад

      Beat me too it… it’s always full at the onset of boss fights.

  • @witchersteve1918
    @witchersteve1918 Год назад +12

    Thank you so much for this! It’s so nice to have something like this. Please continue to cover this game!

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      Thanks for your support as always!

    • @koxonutboy
      @koxonutboy Год назад +1

      Thanks dude I am thinking about whether I want to buy the game digitally or wait for a physical release.

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      @@koxonutboy I’m impatient so I’d much rather play the game today, so digital!

    • @koxonutboy
      @koxonutboy Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle I caved and downloaded it last night haha

  • @PabloClobares
    @PabloClobares Год назад +7

    I just bought it on Switch and will be playing during the weekend. Loving your head start dear Alex, as usual, you are one of the Goats of RUclips for me :) ❤️

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      Aww thank you so much! Hope you'll enjoy it this weekend!

  • @gilded_lady
    @gilded_lady Год назад +6

    Thanks for the clarification on SP. This game could reaaalllly use a glossary

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +4

      Really would! Or a way to review the tutorials!

  • @mylastright
    @mylastright Год назад +2

    Thanks for this, I ended up getting handled without really knowing how deep this game really is! 10 hours in so far, enjoying this so much.

  • @havok9525
    @havok9525 23 дня назад

    We as a player learn about loot really early and yet I haven't bothered to sell anything. I was starting to get annoyed by the fact that my characters are getting almost 2-shot by trash mobs and do negative damage lol
    Now I realize why... I'm still wearing the equipment they sell by default in shops like the bokken for sienna lmao
    That's why I'm here. Thank you for the helpful vid man, appreciate it.

  • @chillodesiac
    @chillodesiac 8 месяцев назад

    came here while contemplating purchasing this game during sale season... instant follow for your concise and engaging explanation!

  • @sleepiestofall
    @sleepiestofall Год назад +54

    I have genuinely needed a JRPG like this. The market is so damn bloated. And for there now to be such a beautiful game. At such a low price, TURN BASED EVEN?!

    • @R3in_Ch
      @R3in_Ch Год назад +5

      yeah this game tries other ideas (or you could say innovate the jrpg abit) which i want to see in new games. pick up a pokemon game it doesnt really different from the older gens (arceus does abit but its too "samey")

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +8

      Other people keep saying turn based RPGs are dead, and yet we keep seeing both Western and Japanese RPGs with Turn Based Combat every single year! Even Square Enix has doubled down back on it!

    • @sleepiestofall
      @sleepiestofall Год назад +2

      @@BacklogBattle True enough that they aren't completely dead. I suppose there just aren't as many as I'd like there to be. I hate that it's slowly becoming more frowned upon for them to be turned based.

    • @stinky_nut_blast
      @stinky_nut_blast Год назад +3

      Rarely I have played so many turn-based (S)RPGs in a single year. Monochrome Mobius, Pathfinder WotR, Relayer Advanced, Legend of Heroes Kuro no Kiseki, Astria Ascending, Solasta, Atelier Sophie, Triangle Strategy, Lost Eidolons.

  • @SkydazeSP
    @SkydazeSP Год назад +2

    Great video, Alex! Started playing this on a whim, and this video is well-made and an excellent go-to resource.

  • @erinzimmerman7686
    @erinzimmerman7686 4 месяца назад

    I just started this game and am loving it so far! Thanks for the helpful tips.

  • @tord111
    @tord111 Год назад

    Thanks a lot man ! Been playing for about 5 hours and still had tons of questions about the game. Your video helped answer most of them !

  • @yusrizalyusof587
    @yusrizalyusof587 Год назад +1

    I like the story progression and game mechanics is quite interesting. A must have game to play, really recommended.

  • @alterego5550
    @alterego5550 Год назад +2

    Good job, bought this day 1 an started last night. Kinda fire, I like it 😎

  • @mrdarkstar3756
    @mrdarkstar3756 Год назад +4

    Having a blast with this game, didn't know I could lower difficulty lol. Good to know doubt I will though because I'm just loving the challenge through and through

  • @Qubicle.
    @Qubicle. Год назад +3

    btw, you can equip personal skill in class slot. so classless characters can equip excess active/passive skills that don't have room in personal skill slots.

  • @stevelewis1239
    @stevelewis1239 Год назад +3

    Thank you. This guide help me a lot.

  • @Edward_242
    @Edward_242 Год назад +3

    This looks interesting, thanks for the video, it's clear and well described. Laughed at your channel name too.

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +2

      Glad that got a chuckle! Thanks for checking my video out!

  • @asadavis9532
    @asadavis9532 Год назад

    I look forward to beating this game just to beat it again now that I know what I’m doing lol
    Thanks for the tips. Wish I had watched videos before playing it for several hours lol

  • @gmmr04
    @gmmr04 6 месяцев назад

    Wow, I just started to play and I’m glad I found your video. Informational and concise! Very helpful!! Now I have an idea of what I’m doing lol

  • @amytheshihtzumom
    @amytheshihtzumom Год назад +1

    Thanks for the video. This is just what I needed to know about the game.

  • @SwitchRPG
    @SwitchRPG Год назад +4

    Great work here

  • @elangtetuko97
    @elangtetuko97 Год назад +1

    Wow, thank you so much for the guide. It helps a lot

  • @trashcangoblin420
    @trashcangoblin420 Год назад +13

    the combat in this game is SO good!

    • @aaron6493
      @aaron6493 Год назад +3

      Yes really good but not for everyone. Some people have been playing JRPGS their whole life by grinding to win, here that doesn't fly.

    • @cleverlikem3218
      @cleverlikem3218 Год назад +1

      @@aaron6493 I'm trying to figure out what does fly other than sheer luck

    • @aaron6493
      @aaron6493 Год назад +2

      @@cleverlikem3218 On hard luck will not help. You will need to think and try until you win.

    • @aaron6493
      @aaron6493 Год назад +2

      @@cleverlikem3218 I will give you an easy example, many complaint on the plant that gets your whole party's HP to 1. You need to know what you are doing otherwise you are dead, no luck will help you.

    • @cleverlikem3218
      @cleverlikem3218 Год назад +1

      @@aaron6493 I did it. after brainstorming about different tactics all day at work I i got home and gave it another go. Now I'm flying around happily in sky armor. Thanks for the advice though. Backlog and you, Aaron, do a good job. Of advising rather than hand holding which is good

  • @user-uk5ly3mf7j
    @user-uk5ly3mf7j Год назад +1

    Good explanation, very detail.

  • @pixelartgamergirl
    @pixelartgamergirl 7 месяцев назад

    Great break down i loved it

  • @cthomas72208
    @cthomas72208 Год назад +5

    This game is so freaking good.

  • @Victory0901
    @Victory0901 Год назад +3

    Fantastic guide. Answered a lot of the questions around abilities and attributes. Keep up the great work! ✊🏾

  • @PressStartMark
    @PressStartMark Год назад +2

    Just bought this game today on switch getting Chrono trigger vibes man im lovingnthe game so far im about 2.5 hrs in cant eait for sea of stars as well aw yea thanks for the tips too u blessed ya boi with some knowledge

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      You're very welcome! Glad to see you're enjoying the game!

  • @juicefrosty9452
    @juicefrosty9452 Год назад +1

    tysm for this guide, this helps alot for beginners, love the video very detailed

  • @tinbapakk
    @tinbapakk Год назад +1

    Very instructive video, thanks

  • @NathanYoungLibrary
    @NathanYoungLibrary Год назад +4

    I had NO IDEA how the SP was working and there doesn't seem to be an in-game "journal" of how battle systems work? So, massive thanks for this video. Seems like for all the systems in the game, you get the dialogue breakdown 1 time and then you're left alone?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      Yea. The dev knows of it though, but he’s powering through the bugs and fixing them before adding new features.

  • @JohnRambo1947-July-6th
    @JohnRambo1947-July-6th Год назад +2

    Enjoying this game so much!!!!

  • @delta99nine
    @delta99nine Год назад +1

    This is a great video, thanks for the intel

  • @ZurielMana
    @ZurielMana Год назад +2

    Loving this game. Plus all those sweet sweet Trophies.

  • @bmartinez002
    @bmartinez002 Год назад +1

    Thanks for the guide i needed help

  • @GustavoHawke
    @GustavoHawke Год назад +1

    This game is near perfection!

  • @Lorijenken
    @Lorijenken Год назад +1

    about 5hrs in its been great :D

  • @jackblack6237
    @jackblack6237 Год назад +6

    I love this fucking game!

  • @stinky_nut_blast
    @stinky_nut_blast Год назад +3

    Every game throwing a shashlik enemy at you, has its heart at the right place.

  • @Roanix1
    @Roanix1 7 месяцев назад +1

    ...I have an SP *POOL* ??? Well, I'm glad I watched this...

  • @skilo9626
    @skilo9626 Год назад +1

    Thanks for this video

  • @Razil1982
    @Razil1982 Год назад +1

    Great vid, thanks

  • @caoimhind3376
    @caoimhind3376 Год назад +1

    Useful video! Thanks !

  • @timothykirby4406
    @timothykirby4406 Год назад +1

    Nice, I’m four hours in. Game is really cool

  • @pralenkaman8105
    @pralenkaman8105 11 месяцев назад +1

    Won't spoil what happens in the story, but around the point where you get sky armors, I found that the combat really took a difficulty spike, now this ain't a bad thing, I rarely got a game over before this but now even normal encounters can result in a game over
    I think it's interesting for an rpg to not have a level system because I never feel overpowered, I might find a strategy that works for a lot of encounters but that strategy normally relies on one of my party members that are far from invincible, 3-5 hits are generally enough to take them down which makes encounters where the enemies have aoe attacks quite challenging

  • @hadoo1973
    @hadoo1973 Год назад +4

    I get to be the first guy. Thanks for this video 😁

  • @GloriousGrunt
    @GloriousGrunt Год назад +1

    Great intel for noobs like me :) thanks!

  • @moparlinke
    @moparlinke Год назад +1

    I love it,and free to play with game pass 🤘🏻

  • @lordsilver87
    @lordsilver87 Год назад +1

    Thank you

  • @johnbadfrog
    @johnbadfrog Год назад +1

    Good work m8!

  • @JagerLionhunter
    @JagerLionhunter Год назад +2

    For the OD bar, I pretty much try to bounce back around yellow for a turn just to be always in the safe side lol.

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      I’d like to see you try this on the boss that messes up the gauge LOL

    • @JagerLionhunter
      @JagerLionhunter Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle ohhh I'm not there yet! Great stuff!

  • @hadoo1973
    @hadoo1973 Год назад +3

    Another thing I didn't realize was the things u unlock for moving across the board has two pages. The second page let's you claim stuff for chains. I had sacred water just waiting there for me. I missed out on leveling up he emblem in Basil cause I didn't realize

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      Sounds like you gotta watch this video again ;)

    • @hadoo1973
      @hadoo1973 Год назад +3

      @@BacklogBattle I have covid, I'll blame it on the brain fog

  • @krzysztofkalinowski2998
    @krzysztofkalinowski2998 Год назад +1

    Great video! It helped a lot! One more thing i don't know. You start game leveling characters and I see there tech points. What are Tech points?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      That’s what you use to cast spells and skills! TP

  • @deshawnthomas
    @deshawnthomas Год назад +1

    I never noticed the skill type thing and im near endgame... oops lol

  • @1gr8chef123
    @1gr8chef123 Год назад +3

    DOES chaging the options to make the enemies easier change the ending of the game? some games that is the case.

  • @BahamutMagusX
    @BahamutMagusX Год назад +2

    Do you know if a character still gains SP after a battle if they're dead?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      Yes they do!

    • @BahamutMagusX
      @BahamutMagusX Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle Very helpful, thank you for your quick reply!

  • @NILsandMAN00
    @NILsandMAN00 Год назад

    How do you know if something is a physical or a magic attack

  • @khoerulumam8316
    @khoerulumam8316 Год назад

    can we skip or change the enemy next turn like octopath traveller?

  • @zedetach
    @zedetach Год назад +1

    Can someone explain to me how the overdrive items(attack, buff, debuff etc) work? I can't seem to find any guide on this.

    • @benjaminharris9863
      @benjaminharris9863 Год назад

      If you use them in battle it will lower the Bar into overdrive (move the arrow right) - You have to use the right one though. for example - magic override item when the bar has the symbol for magic, Etc.

  • @1234zorg
    @1234zorg Год назад

    What dictates a class skill being maxed out?

  • @ricardohafez2042
    @ricardohafez2042 Год назад +2

    Nice video! Can I ask how many classes are there?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +2

      There’s a trophy for getting 12 class emblems, so let’s go with that! Each Sky Armor also plays differently depending on their weapon, but it’s technically not considered a class!

  • @robm6726
    @robm6726 Год назад +1

    Seems very interesting, my question is, by the end of your adventure, will you be able to max out your party, or will there be skills left on the table no matter what you do?

  • @alfinfrw
    @alfinfrw Год назад +1

    if one of ur party died, did they still get SP if they still dead?

  • @1gr8chef123
    @1gr8chef123 Год назад +1

    What are the SP points used for? I have a lot and haven't used any. Also i know the stars are used to buy skills but how are they obtained? can i grind to get more?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      The video literally answers all of the questions you just asked

  • @rayray0987
    @rayray0987 Год назад

    Why does Victor's Pressure Point do 2 hits, while his Earthen Drum only does 1? It makes the wind attack stronger on earth weak/wind resistant enemies than the earth attack. Is there a point to his earth attack?

  • @LucasFerreira-th5ol
    @LucasFerreira-th5ol Год назад

    I didn't get the "deals" system. Neither how to look what's the vendor is looking for, neither the rewards. I also found a bug on the game, when selling equiped sky armor pieces, you gain the gold, but the piece stay on your inventory for the negotiation time. Basic you can sell it endless times.

    • @xyz-ln5qu
      @xyz-ln5qu Год назад

      For deals u need sell loots then the merchant sell u special items

  • @toad7424
    @toad7424 Год назад +1

    Are you able obtain enough Grimoire Shards to learn ALL the skills?
    If not, is there a way for you to reset?
    I want to know before I regret some decisions later..

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      Yes! And no there’s no way to respec

    • @toad7424
      @toad7424 Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle Thanks for the info. Now I can calmy learn skills.

  • @kkkeeeiiinnnooo
    @kkkeeeiiinnnooo Год назад +1

    Does AGI effect hit chance as well or just turn order? And are you able to refund your GS at some point in the story or are you locked in once you spend it?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      No respec. Also, AGI only affects frequency of turns/turn order!

  • @cliftonsargent1572
    @cliftonsargent1572 Год назад

    How do you use the air ship?
    What are the blue points with the “!” On the map
    What is the gold star with the > in it?

    • @xyz-ln5qu
      @xyz-ln5qu Год назад

      Blue is secondary quest and yellow primary

  • @msguysmiley
    @msguysmiley Год назад

    Question about agility. If you get enough can you act twice before an enemy or is it always 'everyone gets a turn and this is just your turn order'

    • @xyz-ln5qu
      @xyz-ln5qu Год назад

      Agi u can act 2 times before than enemy

  • @Oneiroclast
    @Oneiroclast Год назад

    Are there enough grimoire shards to unlock every skill?

  • @chococo5252
    @chococo5252 Год назад

    But how exactly do you know when an attack uses physical or magical damage? Just guessing by the attack description?

    • @xyz-ln5qu
      @xyz-ln5qu Год назад

      Magic attack has yellow icon and say magic

  • @aproy42
    @aproy42 Год назад +1

    So i have like a 40+chain that i have not claimed. Was wondering if i claim the. Chain can i still continue said chain and get the other rewards latter on or do i need to do it as one big chain?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      The chain refers to the continuous adjacent connection between the rewards, not how many rewards you obtain back to back! So feel free to obtain those rewards ASAP!

    • @aproy42
      @aproy42 Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle thanks.

  • @Blizzalord
    @Blizzalord Год назад

    Do you know what the passive Skills do that cause Weakness Damage and additional 0%?
    For Example the passive Skill Earthattack

    • @raptorxd2146
      @raptorxd2146 Год назад

      they add the elemnt but dont add extra dmg. if it says additional 15% it means that it also adds 15% to dmg

  • @1gr8chef123
    @1gr8chef123 Год назад +1

    how long is this game if you are just doing the main story?

  • @cliftonsargent1572
    @cliftonsargent1572 Год назад

    How do you run away on PS4? How do you upgrade the classes your get the hero things?

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      Press L1 to run! I think you press it twice.
      What do you mean by upgrade the classes?

    • @cliftonsargent1572
      @cliftonsargent1572 Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle so the hero things you get and 1 character gets to equip it, what do you do with it? Does it level up? I have the cleric and vampire ones so far. I just got to the castle and the brother king is trying to kill us

  • @Alexis-rb4kl
    @Alexis-rb4kl Год назад

    It's posible to make characters under level? i'm on a run of 6 hs and i got softlock in a combat with just 2 simple enemies. I mean, I do like 62 hit and the enemies one shot my party.
    I'm on wygrand mines and in the first fight when you choose the path with the 3 guys, in the first battle entering the mines I simple can't win. They one shot me.

    • @xyz-ln5qu
      @xyz-ln5qu Год назад

      Learn hp and def skills and stats

  • @cleverlikem3218
    @cleverlikem3218 Год назад +1

    where are the classes? All i have is Cleric so far. where are these statues at? Im in this snowy area and these snowmen are kicking my ass!! :(

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      Gotta explore more! Check the Reward board - there’s at least one per explorable area (not a town) I think!

    • @cleverlikem3218
      @cleverlikem3218 Год назад +2

      @@BacklogBattle I'll try but I feel like there's something with combat. Like half the battle is trying to take down one enemy out of the 4. By the time I get one down my party is nearly dead. I barely make it out with one party member alive every fight now. Damn snowmen

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +1

      @@cleverlikem3218 try different combinations of starting party members and if you got a surplus of skills, equip the ones that’ll help encounters in the area. Focusing on one enemy at a time is the right strategy! You can do this!

    • @cleverlikem3218
      @cleverlikem3218 Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle thanks

  • @gamebit9063
    @gamebit9063 Год назад

    10 hrs in, I am sorta enjoying it however it seems a little too complicated for me. I like more the difficulty level of a Zelda game.

  • @Minorcas13
    @Minorcas13 Год назад

    Would've preferred just to level up, this progression kinda puts me off on playing it

    • @15Jin15
      @15Jin15 Год назад

      hope you reconsider, is good sometime to play different styles. Still, this progression make every story fight more challenging instead of just overpower

    • @Minorcas13
      @Minorcas13 Год назад

      @@15Jin15 can you respec on the fly and stuff? Cuz I don't want to mess up my skill points and be unable to do anything

    • @15Jin15
      @15Jin15 Год назад

      @@Minorcas13 You can get all skills for everyone if you do all sidequest and missions. So even if you mess up early you can fix it later. No Respec option

    • @Minorcas13
      @Minorcas13 Год назад

      @@15Jin15 then I might give it a shot

  • @1gr8chef123
    @1gr8chef123 Год назад +2

    Do you not gain levels on this game??? What is this all the different charter stories at the beginning? I hope the whole game is not this kind of game. I like one main story. Do all the characters come together as one team early on???

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +2

      1. There are no levels or experience points in this game.
      2. The character stories are just there to introduce the characters that'll be in the party.
      3. Yes, within the first few hours.

    • @1gr8chef123
      @1gr8chef123 Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle AWESOME....thank you for the info,much appreciated!!

  • @jockmattock9239
    @jockmattock9239 Год назад +3

    There's no tutorial review in the game.

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад +3

      Yep. I heard that it might be patched in later.

    • @jockmattock9239
      @jockmattock9239 Год назад +1

      @@BacklogBattle No problem. Figuring it out the old fashion way. Thanks for the help, Alex. Luv this game. Patch or no patch. I luv Chained Echoes.

  • @hermanberg-fu2co
    @hermanberg-fu2co Год назад +1

    why not a single word about boss battles , bosses have no health bar

  • @fefnireindraer144
    @fefnireindraer144 Год назад

    The crystal system is horrible. I'm in act 3 and have NEVER slotted a single crystal.

    • @xyz-ln5qu
      @xyz-ln5qu Год назад

      U need farm a lot crystals

  • @seba830
    @seba830 Год назад +1

    Hey i just have a question, how can i earn more SP? I only get a few after battles. Im thinking it will take ages to maxout stuff. Secondly, i dont know if u beat the goons from the guy that you crashed the wedding at but i didnt get any shards from him? Does my game have bugs? Couse i cant get like past level 8, but i wanna unlock new skills tho

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      You'll earn more SP later! Also, consider what I said about how SP works in the game in the video and it'll start to make sense. You'll have no problems maxing out stuff easily, especially in the mid to late game. Not all boss type enemies drop shards and unfortunately I don't remember if the wedding side quest drops them or if you get it at the completion of the quest itself.

  • @biggains1
    @biggains1 Год назад

    I have healing skills set for use on people that have sky armor but the healing spells don't show up in battle as one of my skills to use. Do you have any idea why that would be?

  • @hadoo1973
    @hadoo1973 Год назад +4

    So um, yeah, I had no idea I could spend SP. Haven't leveled up any skills...🫣

    • @BacklogBattle
      @BacklogBattle  Год назад

      Really?! Well, now you do!

    • @MrJvchef
      @MrJvchef Год назад

      I’m still trying to spend my sp…. Does it open up later on?

    • @hadoo1973
      @hadoo1973 Год назад +2

      @@MrJvchef u can spend right away,look at lower right of screen when u are on the set skills menu. You must have enough to level the skill though, can't do it partially